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"Don't Be Fooled": The Indefinite Detention Bill DOES Apply to American Citizens on U.S. Soil
Even at this 11th hour - when all of our liberties and freedom are about to go down the drain - many people still don't understand that the indefinite detention bill passed by Congress allows indefinite detention of Americans on American soil.
The bill is confusing. As Wired noted on December 1st:
It’s confusing, because two different sections of the bill seem to contradict each other, but in the judgment of the University of Texas’ Robert Chesney — a nonpartisan authority on military detention — “U.S. citizens are included in the grant of detention authority.”
A retired admiral, Judge Advocate General and Dean Emeritus of the University of New Hampshire School of Law also says that it applies to American citizens on American soil.
The ACLU notes:
Don’t be confused by anyone claiming that the indefinite detention legislation does not apply to American citizens. It does. There is an exemption for American citizens from the mandatory detention requirement (section 1032 of the bill), but no exemption for American citizens from the authorization to use the military to indefinitely detain people without charge or trial (section 1031 of the bill). So, the result is that, under the bill, the military has the power to indefinitely imprison American citizens, but it does not have to use its power unless ordered to do so.
But you don’t have to believe us. Instead, read what one of the bill’s sponsors, Sen. Lindsey Graham said about it on the Senate floor: “1031, the statement of authority to detain, does apply to American citizens and it designates the world as the battlefield, including the homeland.”
Another sponsor of the bill - Senator Levin - has also repeatedly said that the bill applies to American citizens on American soil, citing the Supreme Court case of Hamdi which ruled that American citizens can be treated as enemy combatants:
“The Supreme Court has recently ruled there is no bar to the United States holding one of its own citizens as an enemy combatant,” said Levin. “This is the Supreme Court speaking.“
Levin again stressed recently that the bill applies to American citizens, and said that it was president Obama who requested that it do so:
Under questioning from Rand Paul, another co-sponsor - John McCain - said that Americans suspected of terrorism could not only be indefinitely detained, but could be sent to Guantanamo:
U.S. Congressman Justin Amash states in a letter to Congress:
The Senate’s [bill] does not even distinguish between American citizens and non-citizens, or between persons caught domestically and abroad. The President’s power, in his discretion, to detain persons he determines have supported associated forces applies just as strongly to Americans seized on U.S. soil as it does to foreigners captured on a far away battlefield.
Two retired 4-star generals (Charles C. Krulak and Joseph P. Hoar) write in the New York Times:
One provision [in the bill] would authorize the military to indefinitely detain without charge people suspected of involvement with terrorism, including United States citizens apprehended on American soil. Due process would be a thing of the past.
Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson - General Colin Powell's chief of staff - says that the bill is a big step towards tyranny at home. Congressman Ron Paul says that it will establish martial law in America.
Indeed, Amash accuses lawmakers of attempting to intentionally mislead the American people by writing a bill which appears at first glance to exclude U.S. citizens, when it actually includes us:
Pres. Obama and many Members of Congress believe the President ALREADY has the authority the bill grants him. Legally, of course, he does not. This language was inserted to keep proponents and opponents of the bill appeased, while permitting the President to assert that the improper power he has claimed all along is now in statute.
***
They will say that American citizens are specifically exempted under the following language in Sec. 1032: “The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States." Don’t be fooled. All this says is that the President is not REQUIRED to indefinitely detain American citizens without charge or trial. It still PERMITS him to do so.
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What a PUPPET Obie turned out to be. First for the Banksterz, now for the Ghost of Cheney. Seems like there's a rogue wave with Ron Paul's name on it out there...
The cattle go willing to the slaugherhouse because they can't imagine what's in store for them. I was at a Tea Party meeting last night and the National Defense Authorization Act.was discussed. One man joked that Guantanamo wasn't so bad because at least it would be warm. I have sent endless links to articles and videos etc. to friends and family about the phony war on terror and they still don't get it. It's hopeless.
Save yourself because most people will not only go willingly to the butchers but will force others to go with them.
Didn't Joesph Stalin work this angle...??
They don't want to know. They don't want to see. They don't want to face reality.
I was looking to visit Miami early next year ...FUKKIT !!
US tourism has increased by a pitiful 1% in a decade while all other destinations have seen double digit increases. The ONLY plausible reason (difference) is the moronc US Visas required by visitng toursists and the constant horror stories of intrusive State/Stazi boarder 'service'
I have a French friend that couldn't return to her LA job after 9/11 because the Frogs refused to join the US Govt in a false (fabricated) war in Iraq that had sweet f.a. to do with 9/11 (or WMD)
A financial guru recently reported more horror stories of Conference attendees having payments blocked and held for weeks and being hounded and screamed at by US border retards. He'll never hold another Conference on US shores until the perverted tossers at US airports are removed
It all comes down to each man....his conscience....his beliefs. I believe in God. I believe I am bound to care for and protect those I love as best I can. How it will play out.......I've no idea until the decision point is arrived at. In the meantime, I pray.
Indeed it does come down to one's beliefs and what one is willing to live with. And so, when the actual time does come (and I believe it may), we'll see if actions match words. This bill should bring all Americans who still possess some cognitive functions to DEFCON 1.
Well said, my friend.
RON PAUL and vote every one that votes for it out period
I appreciate the sentiment, but the old bumper sticker was right:
If voting changed anything, it would be illegal.
The support for such Fascist enabling legislation always contains the caveat, "with proper management and oversight". In practice, there are no protections from bureaucratic mission creep. These things always extend into areas that were never mentioned.
http://georgesblogforum.wordpress.com/2011/11/02/the-daily-climb-2/
security over liberty.
1. we accepted a rigged election
2. we elected a foreigner.
3. we elected a muslim (royal loyalist)
we don't deserve liberty and so will have none.
http://expose2.wordpress.com
Yup, right along with Predator drones being used against "separatist" farmers in North Dakota!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2073248/Local-cops-used-Predator...
But don't worry, they'll only ever attack bad people! ("Bad" to be redefined as political circumstances require.)
Exactly. We're entering a damn scary time, when government personnel no longer need to place themselves at risk to do their killing. They don't even have to get their hands dirty anymore. Just pull the trigger on the joystick...
Diamond Dogs rule.
next fashion trend, barcode tats
A Department of Homeland Security (DHS) intelligence assessment was published to the Internet this week, warning that opposition to federal government policies could foment a resurgence of "rightwing extremism." The DHS report is the latest indication that many law enforcement agencies regard advocacy groups as intelligence targets and lawful political dissent as a potential sign of terrorism.
In addition to the recession and the election of Barack Obama, the DHS report identified opposition to illegal immigration, expanded social programs, abortion and gun control as factors galvanizing radicalization. No specific groups are listed; instead, the DHS report broadly characterizes these potential terrorists as either "primarily hate-oriented" or "mainly anti-government." Some conservatives and libertarians take the report as an indictment of their values. However, this is not a left-versus-right issue, and those blogs framing it that way are missing the point. Rather, the real problem is figuring out how lawful dissent squares with efforts to fight terrorism and the persistent inability of domestic intelligence agencies to adequately draw the distinction.
This is at least the fourth time in three months that government domestic intelligence reports have been leaked to the public. Earlier this month, a report entitled "The 2009 Terrorism Threat Assessment" leaked from the Virginia Fusion Center to the Internet. The Virginia Fusion Center's report lists a wide variety of groups (of which many are clearly associated with terrorism, but many others have terrorism connections that are speculative or nonexistent) and uniformly recommends that law enforcement investigate the groups and their affiliates. The Virginia report comes on the heels of a report leaked from the North Central Texas Fusion Center in February, and yet another from the Missouri Information Analysis Center in March. The Missouri and Texas reports have already been roundly criticized and retracted. None of these reports indicate a specific threat, just a never-ending array of potential hazards that are "likely to grow in strength."
http://www.cdt.org/blogs/harley-geiger/us-intelligence-reports-continue-confuse-political-dissent-terrorism
The blue links will take you to PDF's of the Police Language and Documents against all you People who Love God and the Constitution! ALL OF YOU SHOULD BE JAILED ANY WAY!
Go low fi and don't group think
So if the Congress disagrees with the President, all he has to do is declare them terrorists and off they go?
I guess we are closer to a Reichstag fire than we think http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/on-this-day/July-August-08/On-this-Day--Nazis-Ban-All-Other-Political-Parties.html
But the Weimar government banned the Nazis first:
"The Nazis gained supporters after the coup, appealing to Germans who wanted strong, nationalist leadership in place of the weak and ineffective Weimar government. Although the government had issued bans on the party, it won many seats in the 1930 election and became a viable political party."
100 million gun owners. the majority of them do not hunt. The government is playing with fire. I am prepared but also very sad.
Honestly, I don't think that even a small minority have the balls to do anything at all.
My heart is heavy too but I also realize a fire may be their goal.
It won't be their kids, after all, but your's and mine.
Our rights/privacy in the UK have been eroded horribly over the last 15 years or so. I always looked at the USA as somewhere that this could never happen (constitution etc).
This actually looks significantly worse than the UK situation if the bill gets passed.
Won't Obama just veto it so that it looks like he is on the side of "the people"?
No. Obama won't veto this. There won't be any Rose Garden signing ceremony but he'll sign it just the same. Here's hoping that it won't make it through the House.
But the Muslims hate our freedoms. If they're gone, the Muslims will leave us alone!
That's how Rome got Carthage to leave them alone.
But.. But! I have a really, really good esquire..
That retainer was a waste! LULZ!
First, this bill went to a joint reconciliation committee and came out with those paragraphs renumbered and rewritten. They are now paragraphs 1021 and 1022. I spoke with my congressmans aide this morning and according to him they rewrote both sections and have a bold notation that none of the language applies to U.S. citizens.
Now, I don't have any idea what the truth of the matter is. I suspect we will all see what comes out after the vote today. However, I distrust any articles that are referring to the old sections of 1031 & 1032 because that is now outdated information. Just FYI.
People, people, people....don't you understand? We have to pass the bill before we can find out what's in it.
Sheesh...you people....
Thank you Nancy... sometimes people forget you know whats best for them
:-)
America’s financial decline is a product of its moral and ethical decline. We have become a country of men not of laws.
It's no coincidence the Rockefeller Foundation has had a hand in the public educational system. Watch Aaron Russo's interview regarding his brief friendship with Nick Rockefeller. Combined with their poison of pop culture, they have moulded the majority of us into ignorant, materialistic, amoral, debt-serfs. The feminizing of men, the masculinizing of women, its all apart of the plan. The decline of our society has been engineered by the "elite".
Opt out of the NWO bullshit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o11YmQ7-Ld8
the "masculinizing" of males, and the "feminizing" of females is an even greater social conditioning con than the gender role reversals - it certainly has more his-story behind the conditioning. . .
humans are. gender is applied by the culture, after the fact.
cui bono.
'Foundations' are not what most assume them to be.
Tyranny is the new growth industry.
'defence' contractor's oobergoober...
Voters get what they deserve.
Diebold does all my voting, why waste time going to the polling place?
I hate that bullshit response. Voting at the federal election has zero effect. Fascism continues to march forward regardless. This isn't about voting. It's about liberty. Even if a majority voted to approve of this bill, it is still an outrage and unconstitutional!
Like I've said elsewhere already, if people start getting arrested under this bill we have an obligation to stand up to stop it.
if people start getting arrested under this bill we have an obligation to stand up to stop it.
True, but how will we know? The Internet is already fully monitored (and no one cares), and they are identifying dissenters as terrorists.
NO ONE on any TV network will do anything. Hell, they'll spin any dissent as domestic terror.
Beside, they'll start slowly, to keep denial viable.
While it has zero external effect in fostering positive change, it has plenty of effect in placating the sheeple who provide the consent for what otherwise would rightly be seen as a criminal conspiracy.
Another thing it does is to promote the idea that one can delegate powers to others that they do not hold as individuals, a wholly illogical concept.
The existence of nuclear weapons means someone's in charge, even if in regard only to what happens with those weapons.
So you're either squatting on property 'covered' by a nuclear umbrella or not, and either you have the nukes, or you have some means of neutralizing or causing pain to those who do, or you are just waiting for the day when the resources under your feet are wanted by someone with nukes. That's reality. If you have a little commune, or even if you are a hermit, unless you live in a constant state of readiness for warfare, someone, somewhere, is making your peace possible. They're in charge.
Start with that, and tell me what kind of social organization is better than what the founders laid out. They were mature enough to know that man wants and will have government, but also allowed space for those who hate it to thrive. Yes their system worked so well in some regards that it produces complacency. But if you have a better idea, let's hear it. You've already wholly condemned the kind of people made possible by the constitution, so it can't be that. What, then?
It is strange that people still think voting is a legitimate process or that it has any effect. Nor does calling or writing "your" congressman. We are all Putin puppies now. Wasn't it the first bailout where 90% of their calls said don't give them a dime. I know I was one of them. Of course all of this only leaves a few non-electoral options left to retake democracy and capitalism.
The obvious exception is Ron Paul. This is because he (and any others like him) represent a u-turn away from our present course. Every person who supports and votes for him sends a clear message: 'I'm awake and I see you evil bastards clearly.'
perhaps it's believing that voting will change this runaway juggernaut that some are addressing here - that if only people campaign and do money bombs and count the months until they get to "vote" and see if their guy "wins" - all those things take up vital mental space believing that change can be voted for. . .
when it's been so fucking obvious for years that this. is. not. true.
(most) people use voting like they do pharma meds, to treat a symptom but not holistically deal with the disease.
vote if you must, but don't think it will change anything going forward, not at this late stage. . .
Like I've said elsewhere already, if people start getting arrested under this bill we have an obligation to stand up to stop it.
The problem is how would anyone know???
No one would -- just like in Argentina junta days. "National security" demands that no one knows who the "terrorists" that are being "detained" are. They just disappear.
In diebold controlled elections? What if we voted AGAINST people who wanted these kinds of things? What if OUR senators from our states voted against this monstrosity? Do YOU live in the US because YOU are going to get what YOU deserve by the same logic.