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Fukushima Reactor Temperature Surpasses 752 Degrees … More Than 4 Times Maximum for “Cold Shutdown”
Pretending that the Fukushima reactors achieved a state of “cold shutdown” was a political – rather than scientific - decision.
Tepco itself said the state of cold shutdown could only continue so long as the temperature within the nuclear reactors stayed below 100 degrees Celsius. (Because the thermometers within the reactors have a 20 degree margin of error, Tepco says that any reading over 80 degrees violates the conditions for a cold shutdown.)
As Bloomberg notes today:
Tokyo Electric Power Co. said the temperature in one of the damaged reactors at its Fukushima nuclear station rose to levels above safety limits even as it injected increased amounts of cooling water.
One of three thermometers indicated the temperature at the bottom of the No. 2 reactor pressure vessel rose to 93.7 degrees Celsius (200.7 Fahrenheit) today, higher than the 80 degrees limit, Ai Tanaka, a spokeswoman for the utility known as Tepco, said by phone today.
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The thermometers have a margin of error of as much as 20 degrees.
But major Japanese news sources Yomiuri and Jiji note that the thermometer in reactor 2 has since climbed to 272.8 degrees Celsius, and then hit the upper limit of the thermometer at 400 degrees Celsius (752 degrees Fahrenheit).
In other words, the thermometer is showing temperatures more than 4 times higher than the 100 degree Celsius limit for cold shutdown.
Tepco claims that such a high reading means that the thermometer must be broken, and is maintaining its declaration of cold shutdown based upon the reading of other thermometers. Of course, the fuel is moving around, so there could be hot spots and cooler spots within each reactor.
Of course, Tepco could be right: the thermometer could be broken. But I am not yet convinced, given that – ever since the earthquake last year – Tepco has repeatedly claimed that an instrument is broken whenever there is a new reading of things gone haywire. (Indeed, one Japanese writer said that Tepco’s spokesman sounded “testy” when asked how Tepco knew that the thermometer was broken.)
In good news, a second, nearby 4-reactor nuclear complex which almost melted down last March – the Fukushima Daini complex (referred to as the Fukushima “2? complex), which is 7 miles away from the infamous, leaking 6-reactor Fukushima Daiichi complex – apparently is in a true state of cold shutdown.
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yep, I married a Jap and wished I never would've, no I'm not racsist, as I married one, live and learn
"People will decide to get out of yen. And that will be the end."
Only if Japanese will decide to get out of yen. By starting a run on gold.
And that is the crux of the Fiat Ponzi. The Fed owns all of the USTs, the IOU paper that backs the dollar. The BoJ owns all their own bonds, that back the Yen. The ECB own all the euro debt, which backs the euro. Every player is holding their own crap. It's a crapfest.
When this baby finally blows up out of control (and I've been on site and I believe it's only a matter of time) there's going to be a lot of dead bodies and finger pointing and publicity seeking egomaniac news personnas like Denninger who say this is a nothingburger to Alaska and the West Coast are going to be laughed out of the blogosphere.
This is going to make Chernobyl's effects look like child's play.
Denninger is the ultimate duchebag because he is suppossed to be on our side and he makes us look like donks. Keep him on the bench.
Anybody taking short positions on the reactor temp? Probably not. Currencies are just numbers on paper. Nuclear fuel is a lot more real. What's next/Unplanned and unexpected steam venting? Do we have real numbers on radiation levels in the area?
George! If you put the font in bold and italic it is even easier to spot! OR YOU COULD CAP THE WHOLE BIT! THAT WILL GET EVERYONE'S ATTENTION!!!
Yea the Thermomentor is broken, just like all the rest of the devices that said high levels of radiation also. It's real easy to see if it's broke or not. Just graph the temperature change and find out what type of thermostate is being used. If it's the type that once broken it spikes quickly to maximum and the graph shows a gradual (relative) increase in the temperature you'll know it's reading right. If it's one that once broken it gradually moves up just compare the temperature graph to other temperature graphs when they where fighting the heating of the core, It shouldn't mimick the nuclear pile.
In fact to be honest with you they are totally lying and let me explain why. In a reactor setting you have temperature probes that are sunk through the metal containment via a tapped housing for the reactor and for a used pool a lowered probe into the water. The thermostat is sleaved into a thin metal container of some type (which can protect the thermostat from damage directly in the water or area around the pile), but the temperature is still able to translate to the thermostate. The thermostat isn't solid state at that point, it's a real fancy version of a generic thermostat but instead of mercury it could be using another metal that is heat sensitive. At the top of the thermostate is the connection for a thermocouple which would translate the heat into an electrical voltage which gets translated to a device via the thermocouple wire to a device that is most likely solid state and then that will transmit to the outside world or whatever computer is the output. So if the solid state is destroyed via the radiation then it would show on the computer screen as if it's a short in electronics (-999, blinking at the top of it's measurement etc.).
Now the problem is if the pile got so hot that it melted the thermostat and the temperature went up and past it's measurement the same way. If it melted through you would be able to tell via the instant spike as I said before. If it's the electronics on the solid state controller for the thermostat you could still tell from the way it's responding. I mess with these type of controllers at work and no how they function that is why them saying it's broke is BS, especially since if it was broke the controller would be in a form of error not getting a signal (which you can bet your last dollar that they would have on a nuclear reactor). And since it's getting a signal and the signal isn't tapped out to the high but real high, it's definitely reading true.
Remember, in electronics it's either 1 or 0, on or off, or spiking it's way real quickly (seconds) to 1 or 0.
Thermocouples aren't digital devices, so I'm not following your digital metaphor. Dissimilar metals generate a voltage dependent on the temperature, and the change in voltage is an analog signal that varies continuously as the temperature changes. It's not ones and zeros, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. It seems possible that intense radiation could alter physical properties leading to a change in the temperature reading of a thermocouple, but that doesn't seem to be your point.
thermocouples sound like extremely sexy devices. Pity radiation is not love bites.
These aren't the droids you're looking for.
Hot enough to melt lead ... that definitely does not sound like a cold shutdown to me but heh, I'm not an expert.
Saying the "temperature is 4 times the limit" is ignorant.
Picking a temperature limit that was 1/4th the current reading was ignorant. They should of left it open ended.
A picture of a penguin on one end and a dragon breathing fire and getting poked by satan's trident on the other end. That's all they needed. Cartoon engineering.
Nuclear meltdown, the first thing to go is the thermometers.
That's not my point, which apparently nobody gets, BTW.
One eyed one horned flying purple people eaters on the way...
SOOOO glad I had that vasectomy.
Let me just beat them to the punch;
"Nothing to see here, everything is fine. George Washington is a fear mongerer, and I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT suffer from normalcy bias."
Sighned,
Please don't wake me up, I'm dreaming about starlets.
It's like watching children play with guns.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FEnZw_AeYU&feature=fvst
perfect!
Next up-- the powerless powers that be try to spin the temperature rise as a positive sign which indicates the reactor is ready to go back on line. Killing the planet for profit-it's all good! <snark>
Meanwhile, the rest of us can only hope and pray it does not get worse.
The real question is whether there is water on the core. Without water they're all doomed.
such an absolute and simple fact. one would think more would grasp it. oh well, brother.
Implicit in that statement is the assumption that the reactor has a core.
IMO they have just been pouring water on a big pile of random loose nuclear pellets, cladding, jumbled control rods and structural steel. Much of it is melted/burned and fused together. There isn't any "core". And there's no telling what will happen in all that mess.
That jumble of material is still the core ... it just lacks a precise geometry. If it's sitting in a pool of water it will be okay. If it goes dry it will heat until it starts oxidizing the cladding, control rods, and structural steel and will most likely start to spew clouds of material out the top. Without someone actively cooling this pile it will do everything in its power to disassemble itself or dilute itself with materials in and under the containment vessel.
Well luckily the temp reading is....is....um....
nah, doom is an exaggeration
that's what I really like about trav, no sarcasm. he is an example to all of us. opinion without licking anybody's ass. like telling Doomers that one Fukushima is not "Doooooooom!!!!!" - as I agree to.
since we are all ranting here: I hate those 50s to 70s-style Monstrosities. I love nuclear power, the fuckers just should be small.
Toshiba has a wonderful micro nuclear reactor design that now will probably have to wait another decade
link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshiba_4S
Right. Ionization radiation is what helps us "evolve".
Trav's secret is he is really Ann Coulter.
no, really that's just a really large clitoris.
how shall we celebrate the fast approaching one year anniversary of radiated joy?
An appetizer of Fukishima shellfish with braised earless rabbit...with a nice chianti.
sounds good!
That's semi-interesting and all, but the story about the Israelis using nukes, as a reprisal for Japan enriching Iranian fuel, to cause the todal wave and to blow up the reactors (even reactor #4 that was in cold shut down, with no fuel and undergoing maintenance) is much more entertaning and actually makes some sense.
http://www.henrymakow.com/fukushima_-_what_really_happen.html
We Americans are drama adicts and need a compelling story line... and no one better to give it to us than the Israelis and their ilk.
Ah, those wacky Israelis !!! It's so obvious come to think about it ...
It wasn't the Israelis man, it was the aliens! The aliens!!!
I thought lots of radiation was good for us now! A little more and I wont even need a night light anymore to go pee.
Anti-regulation champion Ann Coulter says that radiation is good for us. Get out of my way, government! Give me more radiation!
Ann Coulter? Everytime I read something from her I am in a state of horrid fascination - perhaps Trav7777 is Ann Coulter? ;-)
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oh, my, I just see now further below this is not an original thought. drats!
Did she mention that both 3mile isle and Chernobyl were the direct result of redundant systems and/or took place during government safety testing?
Had some fish from the gulf tonight and it was tasty!
She mentioned it was the radiation that gave her the man hands.
you get fins on your back, and horns on your head, but no wings.
That new arm out of the rear of my neck makes it so easy to tweezer my back hair.
Personally, its the newly sprouted penis I value most. I just wish it weren't on my forehead. But hey, still fun. No complaints.
Kinda like the guy with 5 penises, his pants fit him like a glove! :>D We'll just call you "Elephant Man!" :>DD
you mean "ElephantMan5", don't you?
Bobcat Goldthwaite called, he wants his jokes back.
This may be the solution to the U.S. economy. When Japan becomes a radio-active wasteland, their 127 million people
will need somewhere to live. If say 20% of them come to the U.S., that's over 25 million people.
At 5 people per house, they could buy 5 million homes, which would remove all excess houses from the market and
turn the housing market around which in turn would turn the U.S. economy around. It would also help make the banks
solvent and they would increase lending to small and medium businesses which could be the great recovery we had hoped for.
Many of the Japanese would move their thriving manufacturing companies here and we would go back to full employment
with sky-rocketing GDP and surplus trade deficit. Do we dare pray for a nuclear melt-down disaster?
and asians are very productive and commit very little crime. I say we swap them for africans