This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

"The Global Plutocracy Is Terrified of Dissent"

George Washington's picture




 

By Washington’s Blog

The Most Liberal Part of the Country Takes a Page from Dictator's Playbook

The most liberal part of the country - the San Francisco Bay Area - is taking a page from Egyptian dictator Mubarak's playbook.

As leading free speech organization Electronic Frontier Foundation reports:

This week, EFF has seen censorship stories move closer and closer to home — first Iran, then the UK, and now San Francisco, an early locus of the modern free speech movement. Operators of the Bay Area Rapid Transit system (BART) shut down cell phone service to four stations in downtown San Francisco yesterday in response to a planned protest.

 

***

 

BART said today that it had instituted the following rules, including:

No person shall conduct or participate in assemblies or demonstrations or engage in other expressive activities in the paid areas of BART stations, including BART cars and trains and BART station platforms.

What does that mean? We can't talk?

One thing is clear, whether it’s BART or the cell phone carriers that were responsible for the shut-off, cutting off cell phone service in response to a planned protest is a shameful attack on free speech. BART officials are showing themselves to be of a mind with the former president of Egypt, Hosni Mubarak, who ordered the shutdown of cell phone service in Tahrir Square in response to peaceful, democratic protests earlier this year.

U.S. and Britain Attack Social Media

It's not just cell phones.

For example, the Pentagon is trying to manipulate social media for propaganda purposes. And the government is trying to censor any suggestions on the web and other media that powerful people might actually be acting in their own interests (and not necessarily in the interests of the little guy). 

And in Britain, the government is blaming the protests in that country on social media (here are the two real causes).

But as professor of media psychology Ann Rutletdge writes in a post entitled, "Social Media Did Not Cause the London Riots":

After four days of looting and rioting across the UK, people are looking for answers. The violence that started in London, spread rapidly across not only Greater London, but most of the country, not as single oozing mass, but more like an outbreak of the measles. Its speed and range is attributed to the rioters’ use of social media, such as Facebook, Twitter, and Blackberry Messenger. Information and disinformation alike travel fast in social networks. As people try to make sense in the aftermath, an emerging theme is the culpability of social media. Focusing blame on social media is akin to killing the messenger and is both naïve and dangerous.

 

Social media is just a tool. It’s a powerful one, but a tool nonetheless. It can be used in good ways and bad ways, just like a hammer or a baseball bat.

 

***

 

Social media is an easy target. When you’re a politician, it’s great to have something to blame that can’t vote. Prime Minister Cameron almost immediately offloaded the blame onto social networking sites for fueling the riots and hinted at intervention. “When people are using social media for violence, we need to stop them.”

 

UK Home Secretary, Theresa May, is scheduling meetings with Facebook, Twitter and Research In Motion (RIM) to “discuss their responsibilities in this area.” Suggestions have ranged from banning suspected rioters from social media networks to the wholesale shutdown of social media in times of unrest without regard to individual freedoms in order to “catch the bad guys.” The key unanswered question is who gets to decide who’s a ‘troublemaker’ or what’s ‘unrest.’

 

***

 

We should learn from history, as well as from current societies that we do not want to emulate. Can anyone say “China” or “McCarthyism”?

 

Beyond rights violations, any government that thinks they can totally suppress information flows is kidding themselves. Even if it were possible, shutting down social media will not stop anything. In countries where people do not have easy Internet access or rights like freedom of speech, resourceful, persistent, and effective citizens continue to find ways around Great Fire Walls and information blackouts. Suppressing information these days is like holding a balloon under water. It will absolutely pop up somewhere else.

 

***

 

Social media may have accelerated the pace of information travel, bringing groups together faster, but it did not put bricks and fire bombs into the hands of the looters. Social media did not create the anger or sense of powerlessness against authorities. It did not create the heightened emotions of the group, crowd leaders, the adrenalin that comes from a sense of danger and risk, the lack of empathy for others, or the sense of no consequences. Emotion may be contagious, but social media is not.

 

***

 

The real danger from these events is ... the wholesale liquidation of personal freedoms as a solution to deal with fear. When people are scared, they are willing to surrender individual rights to whomever tells them they can “fix” the problem. Whenever we give away our power so that we no longer have access or due process, we are on a slippery slope indeed.

The Use of Heavy-Handed Tactics Is Actually a Sign That We're Winning

But the use by government's worldwide of the iron fist of repression is actually a sign that we are winning.

As Truthout's Matt Renner writes today:

Recently I sat down with two of the young adults who organized and led the Egyptian resistance movement that overthrew Hosni Mubarak. The media narrative said it took 18 days, when in fact, they had been organizing for over five years.

 

According to these young men, the moment they knew they had won was the day Mubarak’s government shut off the Internet and blocked cellphone communications. When people could no longer get updates about what was happening in Tahrir Square, they had to come out of their homes and see for themselves, tripling the size of the protests in one fell swoop.

 

The global plutocracy is terrified of dissent. In some places, the war on dissent is being fought with bullets. In others, the war on dissent targets social media and mobile communications, while repressing and deceiving communities of struggle. It’s already happening.

Our Voices Are More Important Than We've Realized

Renner is right: the plutocracy is terrified of dissent.

Indeed, the Asch Conformity Experiment showed that even one dissenting voice can give people permission to think for themselves.

And a new study shows that when only 10% of a population have strongly-held beliefs, their belief will be adopted by the majority of the society.

 

 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Wed, 08/17/2011 - 10:17 | 1568736 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

The BART Board of Directors is comprised of nine elected officials from the nine BART districts. Board members serve a four-year term. For biographical information, click on a name below.

Regular meetings of the Board of Directors and Standing Committees are held on the second and fourth Thursdays of each month - January through October, the third Thursday in November and the first and third Thursdays in December. Meetings generally start at 9:00 a.m. Visit the Board Agenda and Minutes section

http://www.bart.gov/about/bod/index.aspx

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 11:03 | 1568841 Bob
Bob's picture

Thanks for the correction, Bastiat.  Heads are surely gonna roll at the hands of the local public.

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 11:40 | 1568980 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Hmmmm, not so fast: Kirwan is a respected author/essayist. From hsi article:


Consequently there are a number of myths that have not actually been understood by the public. Most believe that BART is a part of the public's own transportation system and is owned by the citizens of the nine counties through which it runs: That's not true; despite the fact that the money to build BART came from ballot measures in each of the nine counties where the money came from to build this Albatross.
 
BART is a wholly owned "federal commuter-system" and is NOT a part of the public transportation system in the nine counties of Northern California. Their web address says it all: www.bart.gov.
 
As a federal agency BART has never felt the need to explain anything they do to the public, about either their policies or their actions: Because as they say whenever they are seriously challenged; "We're Federal and we don't have to answer your questions." This makes for really great customer relations!
 
Currently BART refuses to run trains that are not absolutely jammed so that a huge number of people find that to get where they're going they must transfer from train to train several times; which stretches out their journey and takes unnecessary time. That's because the six destination trains that BART began with get reduced to just two direct trains; on nights, weekends and holidays-everyone going to any of the other four destinations must transfer because BART refuses to use those direct-trains that would not require a transfer.
 
Before 911 BART had restrooms, janitors and station agents in all of the subterranean terminals. After 911: BART closed the subterranean restrooms; removed all the garbage cans on or near the platforms, and sacked the janitorial staff, while they began to eliminate the station agents. The permanent closing of restrooms that supposedly served the traveling public of well over 300,000 a day, consisted of only two commodes in each station, one for men and the other for women.
 
The restrooms had to be closed and the trash containers had to disappear because of the threat of BOMBS that might be planted in them by TERRORISTS! And of course without restrooms or trash containers there was nothing for Janitors to do so they were fired. Getting rid of the station agents in the subterranean stations took a bit longer but they managed it. These same conditions do not apply to stations in the suburbs where the polite people would never have stood for such treatment. But in the city, the policy remains!
And the link...
http://rense.com/general94/bart2.htm
ORI

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 14:05 | 1569627 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

BART is not a fucking FEDERAL AGENCY.  Did you click on the link?  It is a Local Agency. Does the Feder Government have the right to collect local real estate taxes?  BART does.   Does .gov prove the Federal Reserve is a part of the US government?  Does your local FBI office have a locally elected governing board? Can the USDA collect local real estate taxes  WTF??????

I don't care how "respected" Kirwan is.  I'd like to see his answers to these questions. 

Governance

The San Francisco Bay Area Rapid Transit District is a special governmental agency created by the State of California consisting of Alameda County, Contra Costa County, and the City and County of San Francisco. San Mateo County, which hosts six BART stations, is not part of the BART District. It is governed by an elected Board of Directors with each of the nine directors representing a specific geographic area within the BART district. BART has its own police force.[80]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_Area_Rapid_Transit

 

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 13:19 | 1569415 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Interesting.

 

Maybe off topic, but could you summarize what went down on August 15th?

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 08:26 | 1568357 Bob
Bob's picture

HEY, GEORGE!  Here's a new study just hitting the blogosphere that you may find interesting (you're even cited in it):

http://daviddegraw.org/2011/08/exclusive-analysis-of-financial-terrorism...

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 08:23 | 1568350 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

When will the voices for liberty realize that protest is only useful when you want to communicate with a government that you want to reform? What is the preferred action when the government is so toxic, destructive and deadly that the only solution lies in its' death?

Who would we actually be replacing? Who are the rulers that operate the machinery  and puppetry we call government? 

The People are the fullest expression of the "social contract". Therefore, it is the People where resolution must find expression and manifest itself in a renewal of liberty. It is not the machinery that is important, it can be re-engineered to produce a new product. It is not the puppets that echo the empty promises of the Elites that are the show- their faces can be changed.

However, without an understanding of what constitutes liberty, we are tilting at windmills. The answers are revolving panes, a blur of propaganda and empty rhetoric that mesmerizes the masses and leaves them confused, hypnotized with calls of patriotism and the protection of the status quo.

Liberty is found in our ancient promise: life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The Declartation of Independence was a call to prioritize private property above all other rights. These natural rights of man were the building blocks of freedom from the oppression of merchantilists, aristocrats and those that would tax that which they do not own to pay for a luxury they do not deserve.

"We the People" is a greater calling. It is a challenge to defend the fruits of our labor from the thievery of the "ruling class". We have been lulled into a false trade of paid security. We have been bamboozeled into paying for a first class ticket on a slave galley. 

Liberty is the result of hard work, saving and investment, intelligent direction of your resources into vehicles that allow you to weather the storms of life. Government as a concept and system results in slavery. It is the antithesis of what we have promised ourselves long ago in 1776. The natural rights of man need only to be claimed through courageous action and determination.

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 12:23 | 1569129 Rhodin
Rhodin's picture

"What is the preferred action when the government is so toxic, destructive and deadly that the only solution lies in its' death?"

 

Some will choose violence. If unsucessfull it makes the beast stronger, if successfull it kills the current beast, repeats the cycle and builds a new beast.  This beast was born of well intentioned violence.

Some may do as Ghandi suggested: "Be the change you wish to see in the world."  IF you believe as quoted above, one answer is to totally ignore government.   Avoid it, and act as if it does not exist.  Refuse to recognize it and accept the personal consequences.  Do not confront it, support it, or accept its help.  Few are willing to do this individually, as they could lose their government check, their property and their liberty (or what remains of it).  In USA only the impovershed (or those willing to accept poverty) are likely to take this route individually.  Clans of such folk could develop from tent cities (Obamavilles, Bushboroughs).  Realistically this path isn't likely to gain traction till after a global financial meltdown,   Should the majority decide to opt out together though, national government(s) would disappear quickly.  Government non-recognition date anyone?  How about 12-20-2012?

 

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 15:35 | 1570008 Hamsterfist
Hamsterfist's picture

Cute.  But what you are forgetting is the otherside to what you advocate.  It is a form of violence, in fact the highest form of violence against those in power (government and corporations) and those with money.  (Basically the same as power.)  How do you think they will respond to everyone just 'ignoring' them?  How about the majority of the population, as highlighted by the some of the comments here, who rely upon and would do anything to keep the current system?  If you think those that would lose what they consider dearest, power, would just let this happen you are a lunatic.  There would be plenty of thugs in the street, smashing skulls and getting you to pay attention to the good old American way again.  Sorry, I don't see a 'just wishing it all away' solution.  

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 08:19 | 1568340 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Another day, same propaganda bin.

 Global plutocracy is terrified of dissent.

In reaction, they want to suppress free speech.

Okay.

So lets see what it means: it means that by suppressing free speech, global plutocracy will remove the threat of dissent that terrifies them.

Okay.

So it means that free speech is used to convey dissent.

Ah, ah. Big road block here because in many cases, free speech is not used to express dissent but to express fear that the consensus can be maintained or come to full completion.

So we have people who have agreed to play a game of winners/losers. It is the consensus. As the game progresses, some of the players start to express their fear they wont be part of the winning side. It is not dissent. They still agree on the consensus but fear not to benefit from it.

Same here. In many cases, we have US citizens expressing their fear of slipping slowly out of the US covenant (the consensus). Not dissent.

Expression of the fear of not benefiting from a consensual agreement is not dissent.

Once again, this author, as a US citizen, has produced what US citizens mass produce: cheap propaganda.

The global plutocracy might fear dissent but they are not suppressing free speech because of dissent.

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 08:48 | 1568424 Bartanist
Bartanist's picture

You might want to check your assumptions.

a) Where is the written contract that this is a game of winners and losers and who signed the contract?

b) How have the rules changed over the years and who has changed the rules? What are the effects of the changes to the rules.

This is not just some issue of sour grapes. This is an issue of those who have userped power from the legal government through unethical, illegal and immoral means to corrupt the rules governing this country (the most notably corruption and userpation occurred in 1913).

Once stealing the power to create money from the representatives of the people they have used that money power to systematically loot this country. They have used cronyism (but THEY think of it as a meritocracy) to embezzle and bribe their way to completely corrupt the country and dismantle the will of the people... and it has been propagated generationally. Those on the inside, including people such as Obama and Emanuel, are given free money created out of thin air and the majority (on the outside) are enslaved with debt, taxes and where those two fail, welfare.

Where good people are forced to be corrupted to, as you call it, "win", something is wrong with the world... and that is our sorry state.

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 10:50 | 1568810 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

No assumption, only facts.

The rest is playing on semantics, wanting evidences of obvious facts...

a) why demand written contract? Writing a contract does not guarantee its enforcement (see the number of treaties the US has broken) US citizens have agreed on a game of winner/loser.

b)Rules changed? Which ones? In the US world order, some people could have a legitimate claim that the rules were changed. But US citizens how?

 It is not just an issue of sour grapes. But it is mainly an issue of sour grapes, of people who are realizing that the game was exciting as long as they picture themselves as winners. Now, reality has its calls, and more and more, those people are forced to realize they are going to be on the wrong side of the deal, on the losers side.

US citizens have built a fable out of their history by excluding any person's history that would not allow the perpetuation of their US fable.

The US has not changed one bit since its inception. No turn in 1913. Simply the continuation of the initial  trend.

Funnily enough, to keep the fable on, some US citizens are now experimenting the very fact that they need to erase themselves, their own personal history to make the trick. It does not look that painless at this moment.  

 

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 11:10 | 1568845 akak
akak's picture

You are so consistently full of shit and a blinding anti-American hatred that it is utterly worthless and pointless to read your invariably execrable drivel.

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 10:34 | 1568774 Rhodin
Rhodin's picture

I agree in general, but wonder how Obama has been propagated generationally?  Where exactly did he come from?  Did they grow him in a lab?

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 08:47 | 1568421 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Another post, same fucking bullshit from alanon.

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 08:49 | 1568432 Bartanist
Bartanist's picture

Oh my! a useless troll.

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 08:11 | 1568319 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

I spread the gospel every chance I get.  Some people think im crazy but it's worth it if I only get to 1 person out of 10 but here as of late people seem to be much more receptive and are even already there with me.  Too bad it has to get to this point first but that's the way it goes I guess.

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 07:42 | 1568275 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

"The media narrative said it took 18 days, when in fact, they had been organizing for over five years."

... er ... maybe like north of 80 years.  The Society of Muslim Brothers has been hanging around since 1928.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_brotherhood

and has metasticized into many variants.

- Ned

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 07:36 | 1568269 jimijon
jimijon's picture

Luckily, we are the only nation that has a Freedom DNA. Every other nation has literally thousands of years of kings, priests, dictators, and barbarians leading their people. 

I will tell you when we win.

We will win when the students in our colleges realize it is more radical to be a constitutionalist than a socialist. 

It will happen.

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 15:41 | 1570056 Hamsterfist
Hamsterfist's picture

You are relying on people who are taught at an even higher level to comply with the system.  Good luck with that.  Freedom will come when the 'underclass' or third class becomes political.  (Those outside the system, but not the fourth or forgotten class.)  It is no coincidence society villifies those living on its outskirts.  It's to keep you from becoming one of 'them'.  

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 15:42 | 1570072 Hamsterfist
Hamsterfist's picture

I'm sure Tyler Durden learned to destroy the system by taking a constitutionalist class.

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 13:09 | 1569374 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

"We will win when the students in our colleges realize it is more radical to be a constitutionalist than a socialist."

Priceless

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 10:05 | 1568708 harveywalbinger
harveywalbinger's picture

We will win when the students in our colleges realize it is more radical to be a constitutionalist than a socialist.

I think you're on to something there.  But... how do we go about innoculating the college campus with this concept?

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 10:54 | 1568820 Confused
Confused's picture

It is a difficult task to wake them. They think their overpriced education is the key to success. Its only after they realize that it isn't always the case, that they will realize.

 

Its funny. Social Media is praised for its role in Egypt, and condemned for its role in London/US.

 

Thanks GW. As always, good stuff.

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 07:24 | 1568258 Hunch Trader
Hunch Trader's picture

Not just plutocracy but everyone who enjoys a consolidated power base and subsequent grip on society. Plenty of leftist leaders in various countries (Europe) calling for suppression of free speech as well. They are all enemies of freedom and personal liberties regardless of wealth or party affiliation.

Internet has broken down their control of popular opinion through programmed mass media. People have been brainwashed for tens of years all around the world and they're slowly waking up, one by one. 

Because in a democracy, where do people get their "facts" about politics? The mass media. And who controls media, controls politics, and thus the entire population... it's all a brainwash show.

It's very important to learn to filter out all propaganda and programming. Turn off your tv, the pace is so dizzyingly fast you will never be able to do it. Printed word can be more carefully analyzed, one word and sentence at a time...to see the extent of lies, half-truths and programmed attitudes you're supposed to either feel for or against.

 

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 07:17 | 1568248 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

GeeDub, you do know that BART is a Federal venture? Jim Kirwan did a really good piece on it, perhaps you can grab some quotes from that article as well.

So, BART= TSA

The rest,a s they say, is details.

ORI

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/08/16/pre-cursor-2-and-currents/

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 10:13 | 1568728 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

BART is a Federal Venture????  BART is a local transportation district.

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 11:46 | 1569008 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Please see my response to your response below.

ORI

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 09:07 | 1568500 Bob
Bob's picture

Thanks, ORI, for that little tidbit.  Now it makes perfect sense.  Sadly perfect sense. 

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 07:16 | 1568246 Pay Day Today
Pay Day Today's picture

Want to use FaceBook to start a riot, but where the riot never actually happens? Go to jail for four years!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/17/facebook-cases-criticism-riot-s...

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 09:05 | 1568487 Bob
Bob's picture

A looter who helped himself to an ice-cream cone during the disturbances was warned on Tuesday that he could be jailed. Anderson Fernandes, 22, appeared before magistrates in Manchester charged with burglary after he took two scoops of coffee ice-cream and a cone from Patisserie Valerie in the city centre. He gave the cone away because he didn't like the flavour.

So the authorities are drawing a very hard line.  It will be interesting to see how this affects civil disobedience/rioting in the future.  It may simply up the ante. 

If you are going to jail for four years on a bogus facebook post, how much worse would be the penalty for murder?  Not that much, even for a prole. 

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 09:48 | 1568664 Pay Day Today
Pay Day Today's picture

As Max Keiser pointed out, you would be better off being an MP in the UK, having ripped the tax payer off of thousands of pounds in their fraudulent expenses scandal.

In that case you might get a stern talking to, maybe.

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 07:13 | 1568242 The Deleuzian
The Deleuzian's picture

Didn't Ice-T have an album

FREEDOM OF SPEECH- jUST WATCH WHAT YOU SAY

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 10:17 | 1568737 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

The Deluzian is IN THE HOUSE

It's a sooooo eh  Ciiiiide
It's a sooooooo eh cide

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 06:58 | 1568224 Negro Primero
Negro Primero's picture

From CRYPTOME: Cellphone Protest Photos_ Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART) Civic Center Station - San Francisco, California

http://cryptome.org/info/cell-protest/cell-protest.htm

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 10:00 | 1568698 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

I love the Guy Fawkes masks!

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 06:58 | 1568223 nmewn
nmewn's picture
"The Most Liberal Part of the Country Takes a Page from Dictator's Playbook"

Like I said before, these are not liberals. They can't be.

That uncomfortable feeling in the pit of the "progressive" stomach is treatable...and it doesn't involve a nanny state concotion that has far worse side effects than what you take this medicine for.

Its been a long nap...wakey, wakey my real liberal friends ;-)

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 08:47 | 1568416 Bob
Bob's picture

Hey, the city as a whole may be strongly liberal, but the administrators of the public transportation system need not necessarily be.  This was clearly a backroom designed program of a few people desperate to keep the heat FROM THE LIBERAL CITIZENRY from burning them over the shootings that the scuttled protests aimed to bring to wider public attention. 

Needless to say--or it should be needless to say--the liberal citizens of SF are swarming the fascist mother fuckers for it.  Heads will roll.

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 18:03 | 1570701 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I think we all get the government we deserve...whether left or right.

I remember not too long ago the SF government (prodded by its citizenry) got on the low water use toilet bandwagon. I only fault the "leaders" for not thinking it through...not the idea of using less when it is not required.

Well, if you've been following that SF story...the inevitable happened. The cities sewer mains clogged up because of the decreased water. Quite a stink...lol. Well now they have to hire consultants...ka ching. They come back and say you're going to have to pour five kajillion gallons of chlorine to flush the goo out. Well that didn't sit well with the ones who promoted the eco-friendly toilets as the "end product" winds up in the bay...if I recall correctly.

My point is...they...government, are just people. There is nothing special about them, in fact many are just clueless political gadflys who started out just raising hell at commission meetings. And they normally do what we ask them to do, as they want to be re-elected.

We should be careful not to overtax their pea brains ;-)

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 07:28 | 1568260 weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

Oh, we're quite wide awake, I assure you.  Perhaps you can pass the message to your neo fascist friends on the other side.  The Patriot Act crap is an example of the bipartisan crushing of our rights. 

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 13:17 | 1569403 V in PA
V in PA's picture

I remember reading some time ago (early 90's) that if Republicans and Democrats can come to an agreement on a bill, that the bill would definately bad for the Country, because it means that both parties will share in the spoils.

The Patriot Act.

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 17:46 | 1570651 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I'm a great believer in a divided government for exactly that reason.

More damage has been done to us when they agree than when they disagree.

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 13:05 | 1569336 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

yes, both poser sides of the aisle have embraced the exact same scare tactics for some time now. As mnewn points out,

the labels are meaningless

the wallets are not

they call it our Constitution

but the principles have rot

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 17:43 | 1570641 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Miles and I had a long chat about this issue.

The rule of law, in my opinion, has become entirely twisted from the way the framers intended. I think the principle was/is right, its how it has been manipulated over time that we recognize it as not fair now.

I've said before, there is nothing mystic about "the law". Everyone seems to think it is and it has come to be used as a control device instead of a measure of fairness for everyone, that everyone agrees & consents to abide by.

Yes, I was one of those lone wolves against Bush on issues...one issue was the "Pills for Seniors". It was a bribe for votes. What was even more distressing is that it worked. We're going to have to get past this "what can the government do for me" mindset if we want to retain what freedom we have left and gain back what has been lost.

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 17:57 | 1570677 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

so true and there's nothing mystic about corruption and how it can distort anything including humanity. Good to hear from you nmewn

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 18:31 | 1570768 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Thats it right there, the damned corruption...at all levels.

Its right in our face now, they don't even try to hide it.  They don't understand whats happening out here in the real world...people were just annoyed before, now they're pissed.

Take care.

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 11:46 | 1568989 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

not all of us, but many more of us are coming around than you realize nmewn, just gotta give it some time...some of us are still slumbering in a dream within a dream.   second the request for peeps who speak the same language to call for the redshirt brothers to consider more purple too.

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 17:24 | 1570587 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I think more than we know are coming around tip.

I'm glad you took it as it was meant...a gentle chiding of those who proclaim themselves as being liberal while at the same time asking the state to force their will on their neighbors.

And I will admit that its hard to beat down the walls...but we have to keep chipping away.

Liberals, conservatives, libertarians are all on the same page with the Patriot Act. I remember when they first started talking about the Homeland Security Department...my wife & I looked at each other and said gestapo at the same time.

And pot...I mean really. We are clogging the courts with reefer cases. Some kid gets popped for it, goes in with the dregs of society and comes out not only with a criminal record but brand new "job skills". And look at the taxes wasted, the bureacracy that has grown up around it. But I do have to draw the line at narcotics, coke/smack etc. But reefer when alcohol is worse?...makes no sense.

Bank baiilouts is another. We all agree on the moral hazard to society bailing out the well to do at the expense of the very currency we trade with.

I'm sure there's alot more we all could agree on, instead of the constant back and forth...even though I do enjoy a good fight every now & then ;-)

And yes, I'm workin "my side" as well. I think a bunch of pubs have swung over to a libertaian stance as of now .

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 18:49 | 1570810 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

"as being liberal while at the same time asking the state to force their will on their neighbors"

nm, you just stuck your finger in the dream within the dream right there.    within the heart of every liberal is the belief that "someone" should watch out for those less fortunate, that every Good Society should provide a cushion for those who fall, especially when their fall is caused by circumstances beyond their control.   that's the liberal Dream, in a sense (feel free to improve on this anyone).   

(and before anyone thinks i'm just referencing MLK here, i would call your attention to the Eisenhower quote that Banzai uses in his latest salvo which is to me is as purely "liberal" as anything that MLK said)

the Liberal dream within the liberal Dream is that the State, as a representative of We The People, is the vehicle to provide that cushion ("the Cushion") and that everyone must share "equally" (according to the benefits that they accrue from said society) in supporting it.   when that fails to happen, most Liberals do not question whether the State is perhaps the proper vehicle for channeling the Dream or not, but rather blame the Other Side (the Right and/or Corporations) for the failure.  ("IF it were only these evil clowns weren't in the way, it would work as it's supposed to...")

perhaps the main reason for this is that deeper in the heart of many Liberals (notwithstanding all the selfish reasons for taking the easy out, e.g. paying taxes and/or donating dollars vs. taking personal responsibility) is the FEAR that if the State no longer provides the Cushion, society will erupt into 'CHAOS' -- dog eat dog, every man for himself and the weak shall perish, etc etc.

if one were to agree with this, it seems to follow that the heart of Liberalism (even in its most selfless form) is an extremely pessimistic, selfish view of human nature : that unless motivated under constant threat of Force & Coercion, human beings will refuse to provide a cushion for their fellow humans.

what many don't realize (or are willing to accept) just yet is that, the State (as currently defined and operating) is the main obstacle at this point from the Dream from being realized and that, maybe just maybe, there is a possibility that if they awaken from the dream, they will awaken in the Dream, AS LONG AS they are willing to take conscious action & responsibility to realize that Dream.

short answer:  we need to bitch less about the size, shape & fluffiness of the Cushion, and work more at designing & creating a million cushions to replace the Cushion.

...or something like that...

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 20:39 | 1571020 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Well said.

And I do understand what Reagan did to the word liberal and why he did it, he made it a dirty word for a reason...but no one back then would have understood him if he had derided the statists which is what he was really attacking. I cringe when I see people attack liberals...but I know what they are attacking, still its tough to take.

Thomas Jefferson was a liberal...Voltaire was a liberal. There is nothing inherently wrong with being a liberal...a true liberal. They could never bring themselves to use the state to take anything from or do anything to, someone else. Its not who and what they are. They know they would fight against anyone (other statists) using the government to do it to them.

You have no doubt noticed I often use quotes when writing about a liberal. I do it for a reason. A "liberal" is not the liberal we know. A true liberal is without the quotes. And there is no such thing as a progressive in my mind. They are socialist statists and I write that out as "progressives". "Liberals" written this way, is the same, to denote a socialist statist. That is a progressive.

I really don't know where all the old liberals have gone. To become libertarians I suppose or independents. But its high time they re-emerge and assert themselves again...and they have no stronger ally than me.

And I hear ya on the personal responsibility.

In my view, we have come to the tipping point of what any free government can do to cushion anything or anyone. More and more responsibility was abandoned to the state so that now ,the clucking statist, can make a plausible argument to the weak of mind saying...look, we are the only ones who will care for you now.

I say, not only no, but hell no you fucking parasites!!! Look what you have done to them!!! 

They will take less out of us so that we can be free to help those in need. Its like an addiction and we are going to have to break everyone of it...from corps & banks to the wards of the state.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!