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I stand with the protesters.
Lee Adler explains WHY he is standing with the OWS protesters. I concur with his reasoning, and am glad to see that people in our country can get together to make a public and long overdue statement about the corruption that occupies the top. ~ Ilene
Courtesy of Lee Adler of the Wall Street Examiner
I stand with the protesters.
My mother and millions of other senior citizens are among the victims of the game that policy makers and those who empower them are playing. Their life savings are gone because Bernankecide, the financial genocide of the elderly, forced them to spend their principal. Now the government is indirectly confiscating 8% of my income because I must support my mother. That percentage is likely to grow as her health deteriorates.
Millions of other boomers are in the same boat. They are forced to pay this immoral hidden tax because Ben Bernanke decided that the innocent must pay for the sins of the guilty. While Bernanke’s ZIRP goes on allowing the banksters to continue to collect their fat bonuses, it steals the savings of millions of Americans, eliminates their disposable income, and cuts the spending power of millions of others who must now support those rendered destitute. The guilty benefit, and the innocent are punished.
Bernanke knows that, yet he continues to side with the criminal bankers in support of the financial genocide of the super elderly, and their children, the baby boomers who must increasingly support them.
Among the OWS protesters are those calling for forgiveness of student loans. They may be acting in their own self interest, but it is a just cause, and must be a part of the cleansing of the system. The student loan thing is a long running racket that preys on the inexperience of children and young people just starting out in life. When I was 20 years old I trusted the system (wrongly). What did you know at age 18 or 20?
The fact is that the people’s “savings” that funded those loans, including the fake savings backed by phony assets that have yet to be written down, are already gone. These loans cannot be repaid. Bond holders must get wiped out. Then we’re all going to have to take a haircut. The student loans can’t be repaid because these kids either can’t get jobs at all or can’t get jobs with pay high enough to pay the loans. These loans never had any backing. They were fake from the moment they were issued. But the issuers didn’t care. They got their fees up front.
The student loans are the tip of the iceberg. Bankers have made and sold trillions of dollars worth of loans that they knew, or should have known, could not be repaid. That’s fraud. It must be prosecuted. Today, central bankers and governments are refunding those loans, knowing that a substantial portion of them cannot be repaid. Worse, they are buying them above par because of today’s fake low interest rates. Then they guarantee them by obligating us and future generations to repay them. This is criminal.
I figure that at least a third of our deposits are worthless because they have no assets behind them. Those running the scam know that. Those investing in the scam know it. But they don’t care because they get to collect their fees off the top. That is a system that institutionalizes theft. It must be changed to a performance based model. If you don’t earn a positive return, you don’t get paid. Instead, governments have taken over the scam while transferring wealth to and protecting the criminals who built the system.
If you are blaming the protesters, or are mystified by them, then you just don’t get it. Denial is part of the problem. Too many people have yet to wake up to the fact that they have already been victimized. They are playing along with the dishonest shell game of extend and pretend that the Fed and other central banks and governments are running. It’s time to get real, wake up, and face the music. The longer the game goes on, the worse the consequences for the 99%, and ultimately for the 1%, whose ranks will be decimated at some point, and probably not peacefully if this scam is allowed to continue for much longer.
As long as we continue to avoid cleansing the system of the fraud, as long as we refuse to put the fraudsters in jail, they will continue to bleed us dry. If those in charge of administering justice, like President See No Evil Obama and his worthless AG Eric Holder, refuse to do their jobs and seek to punish the guilty, our society and our culture could spiral into chaos and mob rule. Those in the top 1% who are responsible for this fraud, either directly by running it, or indirectly by supporting it financially, must ultimately be brought to justice or society will perish. There’s no way out other than reform, or revolution, or societal collapse. Those are the choices I see. We had better take the first one, and take it now.
So stop worrying about yourself, and start worrying about the future of your children and grandchildren. The government practice of constantly doubling down in support of the fraud is only digging a deeper and deeper hole. Demand reform of the system now. End the fraud now. Make the guilty pay. Instead of rewarding the bankers, prosecute them. They knew, or should have known, that the loans they were making and selling to others could never be repaid. But they did not care. They only cared that they got their fees up front, and their bonuses in the end.
It’s time to reset and start over. We will all pay a price in the short run, but the longer we wait, the steeper the price will become. Reform and reset now is the only way to begin a real recovery. Stop the fraud, return to the rule of law, prosecute the bankers, punish the guilty, figure out what our assets are really worth and pay us a fair return, and most importantly, return basic standards of fairness and ethical behavior, something that many in society must relearn. It must be done. There is no other way, no other reasonable choice. Failure to act now will consign us to a future in hell.
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Pic via Jr. Deputy Accountant
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Sounds to me like the point is not that he is crying about doing it, but that the game has been rigged in a way that it is needed. Are you in favor of low returns on secure investments & forcing retired people to gamble with their savings in order to hope to afford their old age? You suggest his mother load up on Netflix stock.
nice read.
my priority list:
Term Limits
Abolishing redistricting (gerrymandering)
Supreme Court to rediscover (retry) Corporate Entities Political Donations (sad, really sad)
Reinstate the Glass-Steagall Act
Abolish/Trash CFR & Foreign Aid
Simplify Corporate Tax Structure (15%)
Pick 3, and go with em,... just saying
There is a persuassive argument that restrictive terms limits may be even more detrimental. Much like in Tragedy of the Commons, a political figure has little incentive to treat their station responsibly because they need not plan for the long term. The reprecussions of their actions will only be felt by their successors.
This encourages empty promises, graft, wild spending, collusion, poor planning, disjointed implementations through rotating office holders, and misdirects anger towards a temporary stooge away from the permanent problem--the State itself.
Term limits already exist, ya just have to get enough votes to throw the bumz out!
I also thought it was a good read.
My top priority is to add participatory democracy to our system. After that I believe it will be much easier to get good things out of our representatives like campaign finance reform, and end to all wars, reinstating the Glass-Steagall Act.
I hold a position that I don't see echoed much from either the left or the right. I would actually like to see an end to indefinite corporations. I would like to go way back in our history to when corporations had to have a charter and a time limit. I suspect the real key to restoring a better world is abolishing indefinite corporations. Capitalism is fine. Corporatism is not, and I would like to fix that.
So ilene is suddenly opposed to fraud?
Does this mean that ilene is now endorsing Ron Paul?
If not then ilene simply request that fraud continues, albeit with different actors facilitating that fraud.
Suddenly? That's a weird conclusion. Ron Paul - I agree with some of the things I think he would try to do. Would I vote for him? - maybe, depending on whether there was anyone I liked better. But not endorsing Ron Paul is not equivalent to an endorsement of fraud. That makes no sense.
It makes no sense ilene only if you refuse to see the forest for the trees. The SYSTEM is corrupt. Ron Paul proposes to uproot the system. You may not agree with much of his (Libertarian) ideology, but the fact is as I understand it, you would be 100% free to pursue your own individual path. I always read your stuff. You are clearly intelligent and rational. I have no interest at all in halting your pursuit of progressive goals. I don't suspect that many Libertarians would be.
My point is that without revolutionary change we will just get played. Ron Paul is the only revolutionary change in the offering.
Just STFU and go back to sucking your bankers dick, sockpuppet.
"The SYSTEM is corrupt. Ron Paul proposes to uproot the system." - Well we agree on that point, RP would make some changes I'd like to see made. (He might make some others I'm not so keen on - though he'd likely not succeed.)
Ilene...how could you have missed my question?...
And what is your opinion of subsidizing private industry?
What's your opinion on extra-judicial torture?
What's yer opinion on murdering people with drones?
A U.S. citizen no less ;-)
Your avatar just cracks my shit up. If the real V for Vendetta guy had your ideology he would whip off his mask half way through the movie and reveal he was a finger working for the fascist government. V for Vendetta has nothing to due with A for Arch-Neo-Con bullshit. Change your avatar to Bush junior or Cheney so you quit besmirching that iconic image.
nmewn: Ilene is not going to get back to you...Not today, not tomorrow...not ever...Tyler I hope your name is not Ilene!
Ilene, why do you even bother? Check his "track" record - he's just fishing.
P.S.: Wow, this thread is a mess. Looks like your endorsement of OWS has triggered the entire psyops brigade.
Way to go Rynak! Sometimes people don't even have a compass!!!
I have a compass - It just has more than two sky directions, and i pick directions based on where i want to go, not based on which sky direction i glorify.
That's timely, the compass metaphor...as I just finished this response to your previous comment which I will now place here...please consider the following:
Absolutely untrue, and a circular argument which keeps the perps in power and the economy tanking. Years ago, before it become unfashionable, and even 'unacceptable' for people to employ something you could describe as a 'moral compass,' those who have been running the real OCCUPY Wall St and the Fed, and who pull the strings of the political puppets in their DC subsidiary would have been shunned and vilified by a public INTOLERANT of values so deviant from their own.
The string of revelations (such as Franklin, Presidio etc.) which shone brief light onto the sordid doings of the political class and their military handlers(Mike Aquino et al) brought to the attention of anyone who cared to look just how badly astray the country had gone from it's core values. Few chose to. Even fewer protested.
Revelations presented by Gary Webb and others which demonstrated how the web of corruption, fraud, greed & their violent enforcement had spread to encompass the entire judicial/political/military hierarchies were ignored, as was his subsequent assassination.
Imposition of 'moral relativity' onto the consciousness of the last several generations of Americans by the moulders of opinion and their media enablers has eroded any threshold point at which any but a tiny few will stop and say ENOUGH to any outrage, social OR economic.
That's how you arrived at where you are today, not because of some fiscally errant monetary policies or class driven entitlement schemes. All economic phenomena are consequences of social choices. Acceptance of endless debt based lifestyles is a symptom of moral bankruptcy not the cause of America's current economic one.
And no, this is not a religious sermon. Religious institutions have been some of the biggest enablers of the decay of values. But at least previous generations who turned to the churches for some kind of reminder that there was more to life than self and the material were provided some sense of what mattered in life. The structure which those teachings provided did keep people from idolizing the worst of our innate destructive capacities. Now there is just a black hole.
Funny thing, Dexia being focus of attention right now. Belgium has become the nexus of the dark web of moral and economic corruption which is now playing out it's destructive power. For those with the stomach to read it, research the Dutroux Affair,
(lifeonchildreninthemix.com/BELGIUM.html )
and marvel at the perfect symmetry of the tailspin of which I speak here. Too late, hundreds of thousands of Belgians took to the streets to protest the hijacking of their government and judiciary by a cabal of monsters. Those entrenched in power now, in all of EuroAmerika, will NEVER give it up willingly. What indeed could have been stopped by the INTOLERANCE of individuals to the basest behavior of their elites has reached a level of control over all of the citizenry which will only be overcome now through the most fundamental revolution of consciousness already beyond the capability of most. That individual revolution is the starting point of any "political process."
I read that entire article on the Dutroux Affair some time ago. There are definitely monsters among us, frequently in the ranks of our political and financial elite.
People have tried to write about and expose these things, both in a factual context and in fictional settings (easier to avoid libel that way). They go beyond the realm of politics and business to religion (see Malichi Martin's Windswept House, with the Cardinal of Century City). They are usually accused of being delusional or paranoid. Or if they get a single detail wrong, the whole of their work is dismissed. People have no idea of the horrors that lurk near them on a daily basis, sometimes physically very close indeed.
duplicate
Seriously, Really/Totally/100% Don't let the door knob hit ya' where the dog should of bit ya' Ilene...just go anywhere else
And what is your opinion of subsidizing private industry?
ilene is a full of shit populist pandering progressive big government central planning.........................................ignore her
i think tyler has more than met his fairness doctrine quota
Sometimes its a lack of planning I am afraid
Some Irish comedy
All rational economic activity must stop to pay the bankers I guess.
Minister pledges to open Dublin station - RTÉ News
And you are _______? Fill in the blank for us. Wall St. shill?
+1, platoon daddy....
I think wall st is corrupt and so is the government, and things need to change. I said above what I think about ilene, not sure how you came to your conclusion, quite a jump there.
What I wrote earlier on ZH: http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/occupy-wall-st-bank-public-interest...
I agree the system needs reform. I respect the OWS movement because we need to start somewhere. However, more focus needs to be directed toward the politicians. They are the people that hold the power to change the system. If they were uncorruptible then banks, wall st, and lobbyists would have no sway. Its our government that fell down on the job. It is our government that failed to regulate the financial system and enforce the laws. It is our government that refuses to punish fraud. If there is to be a peaceful change or transition to a better system then it has to be done politicially. I say let wall st do as it will. If we refused to participate and our 'elected' leaders had moral fortitude like Ron Paul then wall st and co would have no power. How does anyone expect anything to get fixed peacfully when the politicians are bought and paid for? It needs to start with the reformation of the poliiticans and the political system. One solution is to allow competeing currency, perhaps by the states. The first state that allows gold/silver backed currency is going to put a big dent in the power of the Fed. However, the politicians will never allow this to happen and that is where the efforts need to be directed. It is the political system that needs reform and any new system or changes need to hold individual liberty as its highest ideal. If we had competing currency systems, competing businesses, and competing ideals we would have a chance. But the government picks the winners and the losers, chooses when to enforce the law, and the list goes on. I am not anti-government, I am anti-corrupt government, and we need just enough government not the government largess that we have now that is in direct contravention of the constitution and our founding fathers. So if OWS is the start so be it, just do not forget to address where we need to change the laws and the system, politically, becuase if we can not change it there, well then I am afraid that this will degenerate dangerously.
Damnit, now i also have to differentiate between sockpuppets, and extremist libertarians who reject anything that isn't purely themselves by showing even the slightest interests for things not on the libertarian agenda. After all, we cannot afford the mental capacity to think about - to take just one example - reduce gov-service spending while at the same time making them better, so that i.e. socialists also get their share of advantages..... nah, cannot have that.... it's about the WHAT and the HOW MUCH, never about the HOW.... it's about adding and removing stuff, not about changing anything, right.
....on second thought, maybe it isn't worth differentiating between both.
Not sure if you are implying I am a liberterian or a scok puppet. I have no party affiliation and ascribe to none of the predefined ideals. I would say that I take a little from each and develop my own ideas. All I am saying is that until the political system is reformed then there is no chance for change. The less the government interferes with the freedoms of the people the better, how can that possibly be a bad thing? We see where government intervetion and planning got us, broke beyond a hope of recovery. They have no will to change, they are bought and paid for. At this point how can government possibly be the answer. The people need to become the largest lobby in the country, peacefully. There is no perfect paradigm. As living creatures we evolve and so must our instituions, our ideas, our beliefs, our governance, etc. They are fastidiously and desparately trying to prop up the status quo as it crumbles around them. Do we need to be another historical example of a failed state like Rome and so many others? The problem is that people gravitate to extremes, they are to quick to say I am this or that, or that someone else is this or that. What is rising in the country are people who are taking a more middle of the road approach, attempting to combine the best aspects of both sides. Left and right are losing their power as they have proven they are corrupted, to narrow minded, and unwilling to compromise. It is time for people to mature, step up and seize the day.
I have issues with ilene because she can not see past the failed left/right paradigm. Most of her articles promote the big government, progressive agenda, that clearly has fallen down flat on its face, same as the right side of the spectrum. ilene has not had the awakening that so many other ZH'ers have. I have to admit I like to rant sometimes, might as well, but typically I try to explain my point of view rationally.
Lets face another simple fact. The people bear as much responsibility for the current state of affairs as the banks, wall st, politicians etc. How many Americans live beyond their means, mired in debt, not because they have to, but because they choose to. How many people have to have something right now, and go into debt to obtain it, rather than saving. There is a huge issue in this world with being responsible for you own actions and being personally accountable. How many were complacent during the boom times when it was plain to see that a failure would come. How many failed to hold their politicians accountable for their actions. Seems to me the national debt has been increasing for many generations. So explain to me why none of these generations addressed this issue? People wake, change your life and the direction of your country, stop enabling the status quo, because that makes you complicit to some degree. How could we have let this happen, we to are responsible. We need peaceful political change.
Yes, yes the kid raised in Hitler Youth and now a grunt facing the Normandy invasion CLEARLY has equal culpability to the High Command of the Third Reich, after all that kid enjoyed socialized medicine etc. and lived beyond his means if it were not for the conquests of the 3rd Reich.
Yeah, WE all are equally to blame, not the people who made the decisions. The IQ 70 folks who got NINJA loans from some sub-contracted loan facility that the TBTF's sent out to every corner of America CLEARLY share equal blame with Jamie Dimon, Geithner, Hank Paulson and Robert Rubin. How DARE they not understand what they were signing on for, they clearly have equal blame.
Give me a break dude. So sick of the "we all lived beyond our means, so we ALL are responsible for the actions of the decision makers" rhetoric, it's utter bullshit.
The rest of your post may or may not have merit but that bit was fucking bullshit.
The rest of your post DOES have merit, but don't trot that argument out anymore it's simply not true. Do we need to change our habits and reign in consumption? Yes! Should we say that someone who took a NINJA loan and didn't in anyway understand the terms of it or the consequences is just as responsible as a Greenspan, Bernanke or Robert Rubin? No! We simply CANNOT hold the useful idiots responsible on the same level of those who made the decisions.
Also as others say above we cannot JUST focus on Wall Street and the Banks and the FED clearly the politicians need to be held accountable. However, the money from Wall Street and the Banks which ultimately comes from the Fiat fractional reserver system is what is causing all of this. The politicians are a symptom, not a cause, just like the NINJA folks or our birth control wanting blonde with strep throat.
The people are not guilty of Bank of Americas crimes, or the crimes of Dick Fuld etc. Those crimes belong to them alone. However, we are responsible as citizens for not holding to account the enablers, our leadership. Everyone had a role to play here, there is no reason the people could not have said many years ago that we would not tolerate a exponentially increasing national debt or any other issue. Seems to me that each new entitlement was greated with thunderous applause by all. This continued to happen even when it was apparent that they were grossly unfunded. If we had seized the day when these issue first came to pass, our situation would not be so dire as it is today. I would say that makes us responsible. I can not agree that politicians are a sympton, they are as much the cause as any other reason. They are free thinking humans with a conscience or a lack of one. They know full well what they are doing when they come to the cross roads of any great decision making process. They chose wrong and bear the responsibility of their poor choices. In many cases they are directly responsible by failing to regulate/enforce the law or punish fraud, and straight up complicity.
You realize though, that people have no way to express this intolerance via the political process, except of by writing "Pleaseplease!" letters to representatives, staging "pleaseplease!" demonstrations, or voting for others and hoping "pleaseplease!"? You realize, that in the current political system, citizens are exclusively passive, and politicians and wealthy ones active..... unless you bring raw physical force on the table, right? Well, if the only "active"-role that people are allowed, is to punch others in the face, throw molotows and fire guns..... uh well..... rooting for fail....
I agree that is certainly the case now, but this was not always so. I think we have crossed a line where we are going to experience some serious unpleasantness to see real change. You state, "Well, if the only "active"-role that people are allowed, is to punch others in the face, throw molotows and fire guns..... uh well..... rooting for fail...." this is already happening around the world. If the people have no choice then this is ultimately the methods they will resort to. I am honestly not sure to what level the people would have to go to take their country back. My hope is that it can be done peacefully. I can certainly think of more than a few way to accomplish this. However, the people are too divided along ideological lines to unite and take peaceful steps to cause this at this time. If everyone refused to pay taxes, moved all of their money out of national banks into regional banks, or perhaps even refused to used fiat currency then I fail to see how we could not get what we want.
I think everything plays out like this. This is another whole discussion though. Briefly, we currently have many predicaments. Some of the foremost issues are peak oil, resource shortfalls in many areas, implosion of debt based money, rampant corruption, lack of sustainablitiy for just about everything, including our lifestyle, just to name a few. These things have or will come to pass. The question is how will we prepare for them. I believe community participation and living is going to be the future. It is here that changes will occur, at first because they have to but eventually because people will realize that this is more important and efficient. Globalism is a failed paradigm as we can plainly see. Communities will become more self sufficient for their own needs. Changes will take place at this level, you can be more involved and have more power as a citizen at this level.....
Anyways, it is getting late here, I can certainly continue this dialogue if you want, but basically one of the points of view that rings true for me is expressed well at chrismartenson.com
Goodnight, and thanks for the deep conversation.
Likewise. I myself did not care about politics, the financial system etc, until the end of 2006. So my awakening is still quite young in many ways. I respect ZH because it is helping me to test my ideas against those of others, integrate others ideas into my own framework, and simply to learn. I do not detect the stench of MSM here, I read posts here for over a year before I joined and started posting comments. I finally feel that I can participate in a meaningful dialogue from time to time and perhaps find some answers along the way.
Until the next time.
g, sun, rynak, et al.......just cruising back through and want to say that my comment to g earlier was hasty (as many of mine are), but personally, I like Ilene and think her posts here bring a lot to the site.
I also stand firmly with the OWS crowd, and hope these are the seeds that will grow into systemic change that will benefit us all. It must start somewhere, and I pray it will stay peaceful.
Even though it's unlikely this post will ever be seen again (reading ZH is like trying to drink from a fire hose), I do want to say I enjoyed reading the debate that took place after I left. Sorry I missed it. Goodwill to all who bring facts and have given enough independent thought to issues to form coherrent positions. There are things we can all learn, and points of view that merit discussion and consideration.
Well, the problem for me is, that your "rant"-posts, and your "explaining my POV rationally"-posts, paint a completely different picture ideologically.... where the former looks quite extremist libertarian, the other looks more like a rational approach, taking bits of ideas depending on if they are efficient for the current problem at hand.
They say this is the fight club, not everything in the fight club is rational. I have no need or desire to qualify every statement I make, sometimes I am going to rant. Now you know me better, and the next time I rant you will know in the back of your mind that I am also a pretty rational clear thinking guy, eh. I observe that plenty of people do both here on ZH, maybe that is part of why we all keep coming back.
That may be true for ZH.
As for the global situation - none of the extremist options will work - neither socialism, libertarianism, communism, capitalism, fascism, individualism, collectivism..... will work on a global scale, because every single one of them is rooted in a dichotomy or actually two (self, other, sub, super)..... and the current crapocracy is.... well, crap anyways..... if people want any fundamental systemic change, they need to face that not only has the current worst-of-everything-crapocracy failed, but also all the current hypothetical ones for purely logical reasons (they cannot work anyways)...
..... or even shorter: There is something wrong with the fundamental assumptions of people.... actually, their entire mindset and worldview. And i don't mean "ah, now i see, we only need to maximize THIS one doctrine, and everything will be right", nor do i mean "ah, we just need to take a bit of everything, and everything will be right".
No, actually, that kind of thinking is part of the problem. They think they need any specific doctrine to find answers.... some kind of absolute rule of thumb, that just needs to be blindly followed, and everything will be right. Nope - sorry, no mental free lunch for you, cheapskate! No, what people need is something much more simple, yet unfortunatelly more mentally expensive: Just selfhonestly asking oneself "How can we make this work efficiently and fair?" - no resorting to lazy shortcuts and maximes. Just plain and simply asking oneself "Nothing has worked! Fuck ideologies. Fuck everything i assume to know. All i care about is: How could one do this reasonably efficient, reliable, fair and affordable?"
Oh, and secondly: Ideas cannot beat intentions. Never ever! That's not an either/or.... ideas are necessary, and do complement intentions (they're the "method"), but ideas cannot guarantee intentions! Whenever you build something on the assumption, that an idea is incorruptible - you're building on nothing. Why? Easy: 1. Humans create and CHANGE ideas. 2. Ideas are like tools - a hammer may be good for getting those nails into walls, but by pure coincidence, i can also use it to kill someone.
This by the way is, why ultimately the current system without MASSIVE pressure and counter-infiltration, or outright overthrow, will not change..... because the problem isn't just the ideas in place (quite a few of them would actually be very useful if they were used for different.... intentions).... but also the PEOPLE in control.
Great post.. I would say that part of the problem is that we the people abidcated our role in holding our leadership accountable. We often get what deserve, we did not demand honest politicians, we did not demand real money, the list could go on I suppose. And look what we got. People are still milling around refusing to believe there are issues, that the core of the system is rotten. These realizations should have occured years ago instead of now. That is a complete lack of responsibility as a citizen, in my opinion. Society is hard work and for various reasons we were simply not as involved in the process as we should have been. Even when voting did matter, look how many people could not be bothered to participate. Perhaps all my point is that we should look inward first because when your own house is in order then you can look outward and facilitate meaningful change. This is what I respect about Ron Paul. I have the feeling the man lives what he preaches, I can not think of any other politician that follows suit. I may not agree with everything Ron Paul says, but I respect the man, and would take him over any other politician.
I think a great awakening is happening now. I hope it is not to late. If people can not accept that through complicity/complacency they enabled our predicament, then perhaps we can all start with the realization that we have a duty now to facilitate and cause real and meanigful change.
We are the 99+%, there is no reason we have to put up with the dysfunctional and corrupt system we have. Perhaps the next time we will be more proactive and prevent things from devolving to the extent we see today.
See my post a bit further down - the current system - even though it may have been meant to give the population and their tribes (states) power.... never really empowered them consequently. From the beginning on, the system was based on electing representatives, who then do all the decisions. While it makes sense that the other extreme - greek-style full-population democracy - cannot work, if only because a citizen just doesn't have as much dedicated time and experience to design policies, as a dedicated elected decisionmaker can..... even though that may be true, there is absolutely zero explanation:
1. Why invididual citizens cannot contribute on an -optional- basis (they can if they want to, but the system doesn't depend on them doing so)
2. Why citizens aren't able to VETO policymaker decisions. I mean WTFLOL? In current "democracies", policymakers can do things, with which 90% of the population disagrees?!?!?!?!
I do not mean both above proposals to be "the solution to everything".... but i think that they do belong into the backbone of any model.
I agree we do not have all the tools that we need. We should have the rights of recall and referendum. Celente brings up some great points about direct democracy and its merits. No one concept will be the answer, but taking the best from each area will help us to evolve. What concerns me is continuing to move forward in a positive direction. Only the people can force this to happen. Otherwise they will be simply led by the nose by whoever is the most powerful. The next system or perhaps our future system needs to take into account the weaknesses of the representative system and correct them in favor of the people.
It has been great debating here, have a good night all.
you need to watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI_P3pxze5w&feature=player_embedded
I can assure you what Ratigan says in this vid will emerge as one of the main demands for real change OWS makes--
Powerful video, great post man. People need to wake up.
guillotine em'........with a dull blade
well,
the youth are on the field of battle...
and the virtues of war are the virtues of the youth....
courage and hope for the future...
and then the elders shall make the peace...
and the vices of peace are the vices of the elders...
mistrust and caution....
it has always been so...
until the elders get pissed off...
then TPTB have a REAL PROBLEM...
rock on!