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If and When the Protestors Unite, Watch Out!
The protest that started nearly a month ago in the Battery now has a name – Occupy Wall Street — and we’re sorry we didn’t think of it first, since the catchy title – “Occupy (fill-in-the-location)” — seems destined to go viral worldwide. We’re not sure whether the demonstrators’ demands will eventually skew right or left politically, or perhaps in neither direction, but Mr. Obama and Rep. Pelosi have not wasted any time getting the jump on the Tea Party and GOP frontrunner-by-default Mitt Romney by presenting the demonstrators with verbal fruit baskets and bouquets – everything but the key to the city, which as of this writing was still in the safekeeping of Mayor Bloomberg. To her credit, Ms. Pelosi zeroed in an actual reason for the demonstrations, even if the protestors themselves haven’t quite figured it out. It’s about jobs, she told ABC News in an interview — and that is undoubtedly on many of the protestors’ minds. But it seems predictable that the movement will come to be “about” many more things as the months roll by. What is not so predictable is who will assume leadership, or perhaps try to co-opt the movement from outside, as it spreads to every city, town and village in the Western world. But if protests should turn violent – a possibility that we’d rate an even-odds bet at this point, it’ll be interesting to see whether the Establishment that has rushed to embrace the demonstrators will start cracking heads.
Whatever happens, the protestors have nearly a year to build up steam ahead of the national political conventions. Charlotte, North Carolina, will play host to the Democrats in early September, and although the event, with 35,000 delegates reportedly planning to attend, is expected to generate $150 million in business for the city, Charlotte may come to regret having been selected over finalists Cleveland, Minneapolis and St. Louis. For, much as Arlo Guthrie, Country Joe McDonald, Santana and the Grateful Dead were big draws at Woodstock, Charlotte boasts a superstar protest-magnet of its own – Bank of America — that could conceivably attract more activists than the convention attracts delegates. You can bet the whole world will be watching – and one can only hope that the demonstrators by then have Woodstock in mind as a behavioral template rather than Chicago, circa August 1968. Republicans are set to convene in Tampa, Florida a week earlier, but we suspect that the extra miles between Northeast population centers and southwest Florida, not to mention the sweltering mid-summer heat, will inhibit the crowds. It’s possible, however, that if a huge throng shows up in Tampa nonetheless, that the city’s unique’y pleasurable waterfront scene will help keep demonstrators from growing surly.
Time for Honest Capitalism?
But even if the mobs are peaceful, they’re not going to be easily satisfied with hollow political promises to create more jobs. The best way to do that is of course to provide tax incentives for small businesses to expand. However, it’s hard to imagine that this will be on their agenda. Or will it? The possibility exists, but only if those who assume leadership of the “Occupy” movement understand that, unlike the big banks, not all businesses are parasitic and in bed with the ringleaders of our incurably corrupt political system. Perhaps those rooting for a revival of honest capitalism should take as a hopeful sign the moment of silence observed for Steve Jobs last week by Wall Street protestors.
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Small businesses create the majority of jobs in the US and because they are small, they do not typically export their jobs overseas. Because they have no more undo influence on their government than any individual, they are taxed to a far greater extent that the large banks and corporations which own their government.
Unfortunately, when you go from a micro to a macro-economic scale by expanding capitalist enterprises from small, locally owned and competitive businesses to huge multinational corporations that can easily buy governments, free enterprise capitalism evolves very easily into crony capitalism. It's the smallness of small business ventures that inhibit them from acquiring the somewhat sociopathic characteristics of large multinational corporations. Capitalism on a small, local scale has many advantages over any other system while on a much larger scale can evolve into a crony capitalist, corporate state via the purchase of government power... like what we have now.
Really well put and self-evidently true. Who are the clowns the junked you? Junk me too.
So you think I won a lottery ticket from those in power, huh? Well, at least you don't have to work hard with that attitude. You can just sit around and blame your predicament on others. I honestly understand that position. It does have appeal.
I appreciate your orthodox point of view. Don't get me wrong because I was one of you paying around 65% in excess of seven figure each year to those high priests. IMHO, from time to time, it pays to view yourself from a totally different perspective. It ain't hard if you keep trying. May the force be with you. Remember the root evil is their Infinite Growth model. You're either with them or you aren't. Your call.
What will the protestors do when cold Winter weather sets in?
Head back to Mom's place in Fairfield ( i.e., home ), and pick up that North Face down parka and L.L. Bean Maine Hunting Shoes.
Well Soros appears to be catering this lollapalooza with smoke salmon plus he is paying $350 to $650 a week. If you need an astroturfing gig - check craiglist in NY in Brooklyn. The astroturfing gigs were there last night.
Give us that source for these "facts" again. I like fiction.
Oh, and for you anonymous junkers: You can kiss my fuzzy coon butt.
If the whole thing can't be glued together any longer and falls apart as the result, OWSers will be blamed and martial law will have to be declared in all major US cities while the elite continue their rape and plunder. The entire wealth of the human race will be largely consolidated into a few highly selective hands, I am afraid. Sorry to break this to you but we've passed the Point of No Return long ago.
Where is Big Sis with the "domestic terrorist" meme? She worked so hard to rationalize the police state and now she has a perfect opportunity for more fascism. C'mon Janet; a crisis is a terrible thing to waste. sarc/
Right on. This is an agitated crowd, and there's already been violence. The fact that Janet's gropers aren't there tells us that the whole police state is a farce built on a lie. The onl thing they want to protect is themselves, from us.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/election/1006
Let's see:
"Rightwing extremism in the United States can be broadly divided into those groups, movements, and adherents that are primarily hate-oriented (based on hatred of particular religious, racial or ethnic groups), and those that are mainly antigovernment, rejecting federal authority in favor of state or local authority, or rejecting government authority entirely. It may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration."
Nah, none of those spotted.
- Ned
"We’re not sure whether the demonstrators’ demands will eventually skew right or left politically"
Have you not been listening to them? They "skewed" hard left weeks ago. There is no chance in hell they will be anything like the tea party. Your comments are a cheap attempt at trying to hide your own political leanings.
They always have been. Soros has been behind this from the start. This park is private property owned by Brookfield Pros (REIT). They got a $169 Million loan from the Dept of Energy recently and Bloomberg's girlfriend is on Brookfield's board. Yes - it is ACORN/SEIU astroturfing. Mainly being run by Soros Workers Family Party.
What are you? Stupid? Did you not see the refutation of the "source" of your crap above? If not, go read it. Your "facts" are rather limp.
Sad to see that as we get closer to public awareness / exposure of the Federal Reserve and our Corporatocracy (modest non-partisan goals set in '07 '08 pre-hijack)
and anger truly begins to resonate and spread...
That so many retreat to become newly appointed defenders of the status quo.
The resulting product of that Tea Party hijacking are obvious and unfortunately well represented on zh these days.
Sorry, but trumpeting of baseless (let's say it -- trollish) rhetoric, over and over, in spite of rational analysis makes me angry.
"Your comments are a cheap attempt at trying to hide your own political leanings."
A bit like how you hide behind the tea party and capitalism to hide the fact that you're a neocon.
OK, I know this is from Fox News so the video here must have been heavily edited to make these crusaders for social justice look like a bunch of fuck-wits but if these clowns are at all representative of the occupying enemy forces I don't think Wall St. has much to worry about: http://tv.breitbart.com/fox-news-jesse-watters-uncovers-the-brains-behind-the-wall-st-protests/
P.S. How many job offers do you think "indian girl" has recieved since this first aired?
"We are the 99%" says it all. It's about political influence, corruption, and crony capitalism conveniently expressed as Wall Street versus Main Street, but it's a lot more than just Wall Street. Nevertheless, the big banks are the sore thumb. See the voluminous work of Will K. Black on control fraud.
Occupy Wall Street has put up "Our One Demand" on YouTube. It is Dylan Ratigan's rant about extraction. Dylan's rant sums up the anger.
The demand for action is to get the money out of politics and lock the revolving door. This will take a constitutional amendment, which also needs to reverse Citizens United. Dylan Ratigan has a petition up to do just this.
Ravi Batra predicted this in The New Golden Age: The Coming Revolution against Political Corruption and Economic Chaos (2007, following on Strauss and Howe's The Fourth Turning (1997). This movement is not going away.
I think it can be a good thing that so much attention is being paid to OWS without any clear demands or agenda. I think it is a sign of people maybe starting to wake up and listen to their gut feeling that something is wrong. That maybe law and order and procedure that are applied to our lives every day but not to elites means that there is no justice system that actually has anything to do with justice. I hope this movement will get momentum and draw in people from left, right and center. People who are rediculing this OWS or occupy the fed because they think it is a lefty or a righty movement ought to think about that for a bit if they are not happy with the status quo because there will never be any change as long as TPTB can keep the left/right circus flying. Does it matter if you are left or right when your way of life is being altered without your consent to more easily allow the fruits of your labour to be taken from you by anyone with a bigger political lobby than you (everyone) and government. It's about time something like OWS started and as long as they keep the pictures of chairman Mao out of site I support what they are doing.
To take the money out of politics, you must take the money out of government = the End of Big Government.
Government is always for sale to the highest bidder. Make it illegal to contribute a dime, and nothing will change.
Actually, what will probably change is that the D's and R's will have more of a strangle hold and any and all alternative speech, however, funded, will be crushed.
That was the consequences of the McCain Feingold Act, AKA the Incumbent Protecting Act, which created dozens of hurdles to inhibit 3rd parties and outsiders from competing with either the Rs or Ds. It bridled democracy further while crushing liberty / freedom of those wanting to compete, giving the entrenched a far easier time in controlling what the public hears about any given election race.
That's the kind of reform you can expect.
Butters et al, the problem is not money in politics and you can't take it out. You can only take the _power_ out. Without that, the money (or some other pernicious influence) will always be there.
Bump this times 1000.
As long as congress has the POWER to grant favors in exchange for money, it will do so. The money will get to them somehow. It has never been othewise. Period. As long as the alphabet agencies have the power to strangle or make billions for a business, the regulators will get jobs in that industry after they have "served the public." Etc Etc. Corruption is inherent in a govenment that has the power to be corrupt, regardless what party is in charge. The only question is how much damage they can do. The more power and the more concentration of power, the more damage. We have long since crossed the threshold where adding one unit of power had any positve effect.
The problem is not the size of the government but the corruption of the top echelon. Reducing the size of govenrment just means reducing the number of people at lower levels that have no actual political power. The smallest government is the rule of one person. It is called tyranny. The second worst from is the rule of a privileged few. It is called oligarchy. The US is nominally a liberal democracy but it is actually a plutocratic oligarchy ruled by the 1% who control the politicla process.
The problem is not the size of the government but the corruption of the top echelon.
Give a bunch of people trillions of Other People's Money to throw around and you're going to get corruption, plain and simple. The solution is just as simple - make politicians a "bad investment" by greatly limiting the amount of Other People's Money" they have to throw around.
PJ O'Rourke said it best - giving money and power to politicians is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.
The power of the Bureaucracy is that it knows which hand feeds it, all the way down to Johnny Punchclock, deskclerk at the Bureau of Making you Wait in Line RE Toilet Water-Flow Information (etc.). It includes Seven Figure Sal, Esq, at the Estate Planning Firm of Blither, Blather and Fleece'em. ETC>
In that, you have a partnership in Tyranny that supports the status quo.
That, tjfxh, IS all about the size and scope of BIG government.
(You do realize that Democracy has historically always lead to Tyranny of the masses, right?)
The power of the Bureaucracy is that it knows which hand feeds it, all the way down
the power of the files (max weber)
The Occupy Wall Street group is a bunch of leftists who believe in a free lunch - how is that going to work out. The younger students are being used like cheap whores by the professional protest industry now enscounced in the unions and academia to party on like a bunch of Bolsheviks. The professionals have cynically latched onto anti banker sentiment to hide what is really anticapitlist anarchism. There is no logical structure underlying this protest that makes any economic sense, but that is the whole point. This is revolution for revolution sake, supported by Obama the community organizer.
The banking and crony capitalism problem can be solved quite expeditiously by letting these rotting behemoths fail. Since that isn't going to happen for a long period (see Greece), we are all going to have to individually figure out how to get off the Merry Go Round and Go Galt. http://www.futurnamics.com/goinggalt.php
You are right that OWS is being headed by the left, just like the Tea Party movement was headed by the right. The problem is that everyone is seaching for what they believe is a solution to our social economic problems. The tea party figures that if you just balanced the budget and don't raise taxes (by reducing the size of government), all the problems would go away. The left figures that if you punish the wealthy (which they associate with Wall Street), that fairness would come into the economy, and we would all be better off. The issue however is that we have crony capitalism in America. True capitalism thrives on creative destruction. The weak perish and are replaced by the strong. Just like a forest fire allows for new growth form the ashes of the old, capitalism thrives on stupid and mismanaged companies dying to be replaced by the innovative. Small companies can thrive in real capitalism as they can move faster than big companies. However, that is not the case in America. In crony capitalism, big companies buy politicians to create real barriers to entry, removing the risk of the small companies dethrowing the big. As such, if and when the big companies fail, there is nobody capable of replacing them due to the regulatory burden bought and paid for by the big. As such, they have to be bailed out as nobody is left capable of replacing them. This is fasism at its finest. Fasism is not capitalism. Bring back real capitalism, and many of the problems we face go away. But, that is much bigger a task than either OWS or Tea Party can change.
its all too planned, part of the master plan to change the system, Gold revaluation shortly......
Soros has been running OWS from day one. It is ACORN et al in drag with whiter faces. A rave.
Soros wants your gold.
You are busy analyzing the who, but you neglect the obvious party. Quit thinking TPTB play fair. They simply play to win. The public attending OWS are pawns drawn in as intended, for a known purpose.
OWS is by design, a tool from the top. OWS is a change mechanism, and it is being used to cause the outrage people in the US inadequately express. TPTB initiated OWS so they can get citizens to demand change. God help us all when they 'save the day.' It won't be pretty, but we will have asked for change and you bet they'll deliver.
Incidentally, I find the timing of OWS coinciding with the loss of drone control intriguing. If all is going well, I assume the drones will provide no problems. However, if a genuine threat of a leader establishes within the movement, there is a viable means of putting it down complete with plausible deniability.
So when a new Ron Paul emerges they're going to kill him with an 'accidental' drone strike? You're basically saying TPTB want a revolution. Tell us more.
OWS is a means of establishing the ruler's framework. Your representatives at OWS (a sorely prepared lot for this type of negotiation I might add) will establish a list of expectations. That list will become a movement for change, which TPTB require to pitch the new system. When the list nears completion, there will be a clear statement from political bodies that (many of these) expectations will be met, but that they'll have to change the system to do it. That ushers in the new population management system.
OWS is not anti-government. It is a 'consent to rule' negotiation tactic instigated by TPTB for citizens to take hold of. The technique is well detailed in the bible, where Egyptian populous is conquered through economic tactics. Worked rather well then and I suspect it will again. This is simply a rinse and repeat.
One other thing for people to ponder... if I am right about OWS, and I expect that I am, the global nature of OWS is an indication of where this leads. Consistent demands around the globe would help garner support for a global system of management, would they not?
On the Ron Paul comment... no, not really. They won't want to destroy the leader; they want to use him/her to swing the populous and help sell their agenda. But if they loose control, annihilation of said leader could be a fall back position.
The economic cake is baked, so this is now about framing blame and laying groundwork, not about stopping the collapse. If it is to make any difference, it will have to find a way to limit its focus. The protests are now getting enough purchase that some kind of platform is absolutely necessary. A congress of sorts is in order, perhaps picking participants with a lottery system based on daily presence - the more days you're there, the more tickets you get in the lottery. Set it for a week or two from now, at a place where it can be covered by cspan start to finish. Without a platform, the fight (in the minds of many) will remain one of law and order vs useless hippies. If it's done seriously, any finished product will be the object of planet-wide scrutiny. This may be an unprecedented opportunity. Even if the platform is statist, the debates will be covered and people will hear new perspectives.
How do we keep it free of self-defeating statist planks? This could be done by creating a mission statement for the congress, to perhaps include: 1. Our purpose it to find non-coercive ways to reform our broken system (that is, no coercion beyond punishment of existing offenders). 2. Our purpose is to offer solutions that do not require years of study and bureaucracy-building, solutions that can be adopted by legislation immediately and go into effect immediately. 3. Our purpose is to promote solutions which don't favor one American or group of Americans over another. 4. Members of this congress swear to adhere to these principles, and produce ideas consistent with them.
Good luck on that anti-statist thingy. By definition the Ocuppy Wall Street crowd are statist anarchists - the only way most of their crackpot agenda can be put in place is through heavy intervention by the state. Statist anarchism is what they want. If that sounds insane, well it is.
OK, never mind. All libertarians, constitutionalists, and end the fedders, please de-camp. Leave the megaphones with the statists.
Spot on. Suckers who believe power to force and coerce will be turned on the people with the money and resources to hold that power are, well -- suckers. They use the power these same suckers have allowed to be concentrated "for the good of society" (if ever there was a pipe-dream so big, yet the dimwits always fall for the same trap...) to chain everyone to corporate and labor monopolies, government plantations, etc. All the while, freedom and liberty is eroded.
Only the masses have not yet noticed like they are about to, when the dollar is exposed and collapses.
Too few understand what OWS really is. The new economic model is ready to deploy, but the members of the current system must first rebel. That's all fine and good when you have a nation like Greece that will play along, but what of all those that will not. The US government has tried most everything... gifting our money to the banks, rewarding outsourcing, non-prosecution of the top (with media to emphasize it) and still no rebellion. OWS is all about manufacturing the outrage the must be in place for the new economic system to be inserted. What will it be? Fascism, rebranded communism, or the simple removal of a bridge to upper class? Remember, serfs work hard when it's that or die. Hmmm...
If you look at the facts behind OWS, such as the park they are in being paid a huge sum by Obama only months ago, and the fact thousands came together without a clear purpose or message, can you really be fooled? The analytical mind has gone to shit. TPTB are simply helping us to act out, so they can come in and 'save the day' with their preplaned solution.
Be the change you want to see in the world. What TH do you think that means to TPTB? It's their technique.
Understand? The need to understand is a form of control. The present day human mind, especially the American mind, must find some meaning or understanding in all things. Ya know, some things just are. The attempt at understand just leads to the attribution of motives that are compatible to those seeking the understanding. This enables them to think they are controlling their own environments. A false premise based on a false promise.
Yes, almost everything that happens in this country is exploited to the advantage of TPTB, whenever possible. But I'm not sure about your scenario. Apart from a complete shutdown of the city or riots that spread elsewhere, how does this demonstration provide a pretext for a new economic model? The general sentiment about the protests is negative _because_ of their (overall) statist nature. That would be expected just based upon its location and the fact that it goes on during working hours. But the disorganized nature of it runs contrary to your whole premise. How exactly does this usher in a new system?
To transform a public system, one must first create a distaste and distrust for the prior one. The greater the hatred for the prior system, the more change one can institute within the new. It's textbook change management. No new system can be introduced while the old stands accepted. An uprising is necessary. Not an uprising to cause collapse, but rather one to shake up the population enough that they demand a solution.
The OWS is a very good thing, but it's timing is all messed up. TPTB have a plan ready. Had OWS happened at the end of 2008, I think it would have left TPTB dancing on a bed of nails. Instead, I expect OWS is timed and deliberate, more about understanding the market and then about selling the new system. People will list their demands, and TPTB will find correlations between the demands and the new system. When it releases, they won't be telling people 'we have a system,' but rather suggesting ways to accomodate the expectations. The public will be asked if they buy into a system that delivers what is requested and the public will say yes. That's how and when a new system is introduced.
OWS is being allowed to grow, in effect nurtured by those it 'threatens.' The lipstick is on the pig. What is now needed is an opportunity to showcase the beautiful shade of red. That's what OWS will provide.
You're right about the basic psy-op nature of most government change. But there's no appetite for more statism among the general public. Obama can't even get his friends in the senate to back his latest 'jobs plan'. TPTB want -more- government control, not less, and the public won't have it except through force or utter desperation.
When the dust settles, it won't be the senate that holds final authority.
PS. Thanks for your writing... you give me a lot to think about. Our views are not mutually exclusive. There is much you say that solves parts of the puzzle I'm still working on.
>>>If you look at the facts behind OWS, such as the park they are in being paid a huge sum by Obama only months ago, and the fact thousands came together without a clear purpose or message, can you really be fooled?<<<
Got a link to that claim? It's a privately owned park. Excacrly who did he pay off and when?
Of course we all know about the "gift" from JPM Chase to the NYPD.
http://stopforeclosurefraud.com/2011/10/01/quelle-surprise-j-p-morgan-ch...
The park is owned by Brookfield Properties (REIT). Obama gave them $169 million dept of energy loan to probably retrofit their buildings. Bloomberg's girlfriend is on the board of directors. This is a Soro's run operation.
I really don't understand why anyone here is following the OWS protests other than for morbid curiosity.
Does anyone here really think anything of consiquence could come out of this?
The system is far too broken for any "reform" movement to save - and probably has been for decades.
Learn about those Private Public Parks:
I read.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1666560/pg1
I've been wanting OWS, but I want it to be legitimate. I don't want it manipulated and I'm certain that will be the outcome.