Megaupload Takedown: The Real Meaning

George Washington's picture

The Feds’ takedown of Megaupload shows beyond the shadow of a doubt that SOPA, PIPA or any similar legislation is wholly unnecessary.

As the Atlantic’s Dashiell Bennett correctly notes:

The shutdown inadvertently proved that the U.S. government already has all the power it needs to take down its copyright villains, even those that aren’t based in the United States. No SOPA or PIPA required.

Indeed, that might be why SOPA’s chief sponsor – who said he’d still push SOPA even after Wednesday’s web blackout – backed down right right after megaupload was taken down. (Granted, it could have also been because Anonymous’ hacking spree showed that draconian legislation won’t stop techies, or because of increased political pressure from other areas.)



Every day, criminals use storage lockers to stash drugs, stolen jewelry, etc. When the Feds raid, they seize the ill-gotten loot, and throw the criminals in jail … as they should.

They don’t shut down the entire storage company, or the train station where the locker is located. We can all agree that that would be absurd.

But the Feds say that Megaupload was basically a criminal enterprise, focused on illegal conduct. In other words, their response to the storage company analogy will be that the storage company gave money to people who stored dope or stolen property there, and that the whole thing was a criminal enterprise. (The Feds also point out that a grand jury found that Megaupload probably did bad stuff.)

I don’t know enough about Megaupload to know whether or not that is true. Numerous top entertainment celebrities endorsed Megaupload (major stars like of the Black Eyed Peas sung Megaupload’s praises)… so it’s not like the entire business was criminal. On the other hand, some people accuse Megaupload’s founder as being a serial criminal.

But the take down of Megaupload was wrong. It should have gone through the normal court process, and a judge should have ruled on the site before anything was done to kill the business. This is especially true because the. countries involved are signatories to international copyright and extradition treaties, not “rogue” nations.

It should be the courts which examine the evidence and determine whether the business used a criminal business model, or was mainly a legitimate business. Whatever happened to due process of law?



Even if the criminal company analogy is accurate, the honest customers of a storage company would normally get their property back. They wouldn’t say “60 percent of the customers are crooks, Mrs. Jones, so we threw away your priceless family heirlooms, too.”

Indeed, if it were easy for the Feds to arrest the criminal owners of the company and to give people notice that they could pick up their property, they would probably do so, and give a specific timeframe to pick it up.

The Feds would not shut down the storage company and throw out all of the property stored there by honest people.

As Ernesto at TorrentFreak writes:

Do the feds realize that hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of people used the site to share research data, work documents, personal video collections and much more?


What will happen to these personal non-infringing files?


People are outraged on Twitter and are demanding access to their files immediately.

  The Real Meaning

  The Real Meaning

  The Real Meaning

  The Real Meaning

  The Real Meaning

  The Real Meaning

  The Real Meaning

By mindlessly shutting down the site, the Feds have made a very stupid move, indeed.


Did the Feds Just Kill the Cloud Storage Model?

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arg's picture

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snblitz's picture

Banks were not always sell outs

There was a time, some 25 years ago or so, that the IRS came for a business that I owned with a seizure order.

My bank, happened to be Bank of America, called me up an told me they had received the order to seize our accounts and turn them over to the IRS. Bank of America told me the order looked bogus to them and they gave the finger to the IRS.

20 years later a similar situation occured and BofA rolled over like a squealing piglet peeing all over itself and I did not learn of the seizure until the bounced check notices started showing up in the mail.

In the latter case we proved the IRS claims wrong and got our money back. 30 days later the IRS seized all the money again with no notice. We got the money back again. 30 days later same thing. Eventually I shut down the company because it could not function in this situation. 6 months later or so 'Joan' was on the cover of the local paper business section. Joan was ejected from the IRS for fraudulently destroying many business including mine. Some say she was just ignorant.

snblitz's picture

Common Carrier (US definition)

Many decades ago AT&T faced the problem of criminals conducting business over their telephone lines. Phone line service companies were granted status as 'Common Carriers' and were exempted from the liability of what was actually carried across their phone lines so long as they did not have direct knowledge of what it was.

As the Internet emerged, Internet Service Providers (ISPs) kind of got common carrier status. Though not quite. I have watched the pendulum swing back and forth on this issue. It is, as we can see, swingly strongly to one side.

Sites like MegaUpload are required to respond to DMCA requests. I suspect, though I do not know, that they likely got such a volume of DMCA requests and such shear volume of traffic, that they may have failed to respond in what the US government considers an adequate amount of time to some of the requests.

The problem is not cost-effectively solvable in any way that makes the mega file service model usuable when you look at the giant scale. Servicing DMCA requests over giant volumes of data is expensive.

There are however companies that allow you to layer encrypted filesystems over their storage layer. I do this in Linux. I have no idea how it is done in MS Windows.

At least then among the people with the key you can share whatever data you like and it is cryptographically difficult for outside parties (or the hosting site) to know what is contained within the data.

For those of you worried about a judge ordering you to 'fess up your key, you can use cryptographic stenography.

The real shortcoming is that a shared encrypted filesystem is only as strong as the weakest link from a key perspective, most likely the government will find someone to confess the key. Or maybe they will just mount a camera in your ceiling and record you typing in the key.

digalert's picture

When the Feds raid, they seize the ill-gotten loot, and throw the criminals in jail … as they should.

Criminal banksters hand in hand with criminal government have been seizing whatever the they want.

Not-So-Safe-Deposit Boxes:

States and banks take the loot.




Here Nazipolitano of DHS has decided that if you have a safe deposit box you're probably a criminal.



TheMerryPrankster's picture

That's why god invented floor safes, any safe you can embed in concrete isn't going anywhere soon.

You can build one in your basement, your backyard, your vacation property, the state park, the national park or anywhere you can dig a hole without drawing attention.

Storing your valuables too far away on public land is probably not a wise idea, but the whole concept of caches involves hiding things you might need in close proximity to a path you might pursue should you need to evacuate your current location and travel to a "safe" one.

Things stored underground need protection from water, both condensation and leakage of rain. Even a tight safe, can twist due to freeze/thaw, earthquake and other stresses.

Banks aren't a good place to store anything, especially your trust.

A safe deposit box is not safe.

vast-dom's picture

outrageous! MU was a legal site that may or may not have hosted files that may or may not have been legal. The legal burden of proof is on the government(s) and agencies, not the service nor its participants. The guilty before proven innocent approach is yet another breach by TeH Government in the same way that Wall Street is utterly up and down guilty as is TeH FeD et. al. 


Fuck the FBI.

Fuck the CIA.

The MU model will eventually be embraced by a dying media biz model, mark these my words. Pirating and Hacking will be the new paradigm that the powers that be will attempt to extract profits on when they are rendered utterly powerless and recognize that -- by then it will be too late and new paradigms will be in place.

TDoS's picture

All the guns in the world still don't make it possible to own a sequence of ones and zeroes.  Keep fighting the tides, oh silly humans.

Sheriff Douchenik from AZ's picture

At Christmas my idiot Apple freak buddy - in the middle of showing off his Ipad24 thought it was great he could access all his media files from Apple's cloud...I asked if he was an idiot and he got really mad. It drove home that the consuming masses have little concern about privacy and Apple/Google/Cloud/etc data collection if they can show it off as 'neat and cool' at parties. He even thought it was cool how the Ipad2 could log where you were at.

ozziindaus's picture

It is clear by the corporate sponsors of the bill that ITunes, amongst others, are trying to expand into all things copyrightable.

Papasmurf's picture

Cloud computing companies should be a good short sale now.  This business model is officially dead. 

xela2200's picture

Sorry! Cloud computing is here to stay. Public file storage might be another story.

BidnessMan's picture

Given just what happened, on what basis could you possibly believe that it won't happen again?    

A primary wake-up call that Cloud Storage is like a Southpark bank deposit -  "And it's gone"....

xela2200's picture

There are commercial users of cloud computing and virtual server. Everything from a website to Sales ordering systems. for one has been a beneficiary of this model. These companies have invested millions of dollars in systems that work on it. They are not going to through away the infrastructure nor the investment.

Many of these file hosting sites lease a virtual server or use some cloud service which is also used by other entities. They flip the switch it kills all of them. Imagine if amazon or Microsoft got shot down. btw, some providers will lease anybody a virtual server which you can RDP to. Whatever you install is your responsibility. I can guarantee many illegal copies installed in those virtual servers just waiting for sheriff dom dom.

I can understand your frustration as I work in the industry (developer). It is unbelievable what the government is doing to the industry. Literally destroying it. They started attacking ebay and amazon all the way through the bs legislation they have going against each of us as users. The one industry the US has a clear advantage in the world, they are destroying it like a wreaking ball. You can be sure that those companies that have mission critical systems on the cloud are going to have a lot of meetings on Monday.

The politicians have NO understanding of the technology. I would dare say they fear it. They send sheriff dom dom to flip the switch to send a "message" to pirate sites or what have you. Instead, they create an environment of complete uncertainty as if businesses didn't have enough already. Are the POS systems at the stores going to be working on Monday? Can You imagine been the CIO of a company and having that question put to you?

gravedestruction's picture


"The one industry the US has a clear advantage in the world, they are destroying it like a wreaking ball."

A point which clearly shows either grave incompetence or seriously sinister intent on the part of these "rulers of fools".

xela2200's picture

I honestly can not figure the logic in their madness. I think they finally managed to set up a true democracy. Rule by mob as it has been called. At least that is how the government seems to be behaving. Like a mob going around lynching and looting.

BTW. The US is a constitutional republic, and it was clearly started as such. Not a mention of democracy in the constitution. It hurts to see the media laughing at Ron Paul when He, rightly so, points to this social contract. It is quickly becoming another irrelevant document like the magna carta. Not even due process anymore.

Rynak's picture

What the hell do virtual servers (which are just a different kind of plain old servers, with a different technical detail) have to do with cloud computing?

I'm (NOT) sorry, but you're talking trash, or at least phrasing it in a highly misleading way.

Cloud computing is about you accepting the role of a PURE CLIENT, INCLUDING YOUR DATA..... typically with no consideration of backups.... in other words, you completely entrust the practical FUNCTIONALITY of your data, to the vendor.

This has nothing to do with plain old webservers, be they real ones, or vservers.... both of them still give the customer arbitrary control over how they use the external service...... they typically put no roadblocks at all towards you keeping easy backups, that can in a matter of hours be made functional on your own machine, or any other vendor...... this has NOTHING to do, with what popularily is understood under cloud computing.

Did i mention already that you're talking sophistic bullshit?

For those who still didn't get it:

Selfcentered usage of data and implementation: someone else offers you capacity, but you can whenever you want move to anyone else running YOUR server.... including your own computers.

P2P Networks..... other clients offer to distribute the files you wish to distribute, as long as you in exchange distribute some of theirs.

A dozen other non-serfdom approaches..... just that

Cloud computing: ***I*** the vendor, own all your data, planning, design, distribution code, and everything.... without us, all your plans are none. I AM THE ABSOLUTE SERVER! There is no other.

DOT's picture

ISPs are now warned:   Get on the bus or get thrown under it.

DosZap's picture



For QUITE some time, ALL ISP's have been required to maintain records on all IP's on their domains.

And, at the request of the .Gubs, hand it questions asked.

CH1's picture

Since they couldn't get SOPA, they resorted to their preferred type of terror, and are trying to send the owner of this site to jail for 50 years.

"The law" has become a sick joke.

xela2200's picture

Many people have not noticed but the government uses many institution for intimidation. No need for new 1099 rule changes. All you need is for the IRS to threaten a few businesses. I have lived this one personally, so I know it for a fact. Likewise, who wants to have to deal with them when even the Treasurer of the country can't figure out the rules. I guarantee that you can find something wrong in many tax returns which could destroy anybody's financial standing. I see the tax attorney's ads on tv, so I know there has to be an epidemic in this area. The US has been making criminals out of its people for decades.

dorei's picture

Obama sings Marvyn Gaye's "Let's Stay Together" at the Apollo Theatre during a fund raiser - that's right he made money at the fund raiser. Does anyone see the irony?

Who's in trouble: Obama, the Apollo or every news organization that publisized it? I would have posted the link but I don't want to get myself in any trouble (or ZH for that matter) or get a little strike or something. If you want to watch it just pull it up on youtube. 

I'm still a little confused: can I post the name/s Obama, Marvyn Gaye, the Apollo in my comment or what about the words Let's Stay Together. This is getting rediculous.



Fred Hayek's picture

"Let's Stay Together" was Al Green.

g speed's picture

Surprise surprise, Obummer plays the race card. He wouldn't do that would he???  Will wonders never cease??

casus belli's picture

For anyone interested, there is a company local to me who are developing an applictaion which allows cloud storage on a peer to peer basis. The files you store are broken up into bits, then encryped using the data itself in ways too clever for me to understand. Suffice to say at the end the only way to get your data back is with your username/password (that part only secure as you make it). Obviously file fragments are stored multiple times to allow for individual node failure. Note this is not a method of file sharing, just a cloud storage method which is not vulnerable to central attack/closure. They were in beta trials last time I checked.

xela2200's picture

Yeah it is called bit torrents. Your friend is 10 years too late. He is probably building on it or a different flavor.

Bit torrent works by spiting a file into many pieces then the pieces are sent to all other participants in no order. This creates a swarm effect where there is no central server sharing the file only an original seeder. However, a server needs to provide a tracker which basically provides a the structure of the files so that the peers can paste all the pieces together. The tracker, for instance, can be taken down. Your friend might be working on something to track it without an open public server. Just guessing, but that is interesting.

casus belli's picture

Aye I think the lack of a centralised server is one of their main things (I've remembered their website now ). Hard to see what the US goverment can do other than ban the software which would be rather hard to enforce. Think they might be close to public release and says it will be free when it comes, so may be worth a look.

Element's picture

Please excuse this OT tangent GW, it seems a significant development.  I warned about six months ago in a detailed comment that this conflict would still be going on and expanding, long after the EU Commission was gone, and it looks like I'll unfortunately be right:




Libyan Resistance and western hypocrisy

18 Jan 2012
Saif Al-Islam Gaddafi

by Konstantyn Scheglikov

An important and expected event has occurred in Libya. Resistance leaders [still resisting the new 'rebel' Govt, the EU's NATO puppet] spoke about the creation of a temporary government in Libya. People all over the world, who comprise the world community, expected this moment. Now our task is to demand that our countries' governments withdraw recognition of the NTC occupational regime because they are not the legal representatives of the Libyan nation, and to begin diplomatic relations with the real Libyan government.

This government is being launched on a temporary basis until full Libyan liberation from the NATO invaders. This is because after that, People's Committees of different levels will be reinstated, and they will continue to govern Libya as it used to be prior to the invasion in February 2011. Certainly all encountered mistakes will be taken into serious consideration to prevent further causes for a new intervention.

Global media (Reuters in particular), through their agents (rats), try to spread lies through web resources, stating that the USA, France and Russian presidents are arranging a summit to discuss the situation in Libya, which they are concerned about, and to grant Saif Al-Islam to be Libya's Prime Minister with an essential continuing presence of Western companies in Libya.

It is clear that their goal is to create an informational mess and hide news about the Libyan Jamahirya Government launching; to offend Saif, Libyan Resistance and all Libyan people who will choose their leaders themselves as well. Barak Obama and Nicolas Sarkozy are criminals. The military forces of their countries are taking part in the robbery of Libya and the elimination of civilians, an ongoing crime for almost 11 months now.

Global propaganda continues to try to create an image of peacemakers as though they were ignoring their personal interests in destroying countries rich in mineral resources.

One additional purpose of this disinformation is to try to minimize the Libyan struggle against the occupants. Global media attempts to conceal this struggle, but it has already spread all over Libya. In the East of Libya, the Obeydi Tribe, which at first participated in the war on occupants' side, liberated and held the rats-free City of Tobroock. The tribe supports the anti NTC, anti occupants revolt as well.

The Al Zintan tribe, since November 2011, that is to say since the Saif al Gaddafi arrival at the City of Zintan, fights in the Libyan Resistance ranks.  All this means is that the Libyan tribes are united in their struggle against the invaders.

The global media conceals information regarding successful Libyan Resistance operations. They depict it as terrorist attacks. For instance, they mentioned the French attaché with NTC whose assassination was committed by Libyan resistance patriots and the attack on French mercenaries such as the ex-French soldier killing. The whole operation was called a terrorist attack and it was pointed out that NTC has arrested a suspect.

Global media exactly follows Nazi propaganda, that called Russian partisans bandits. SS squads captured civilians randomly and demanded locals to surrender partisans otherwise they threatened to execute hostages. Exactly the same occurs now in Libya. NATO and PMC death squads have created a number of death camps for the torturing of Resistance members and terrorizing the Libyan population, closely cooperating with inner traitors.

Videos of tortures are spread through YouTube exactly as in the February-March videos of black skinned Libyans being lynched were posted. Website administrators delete only videos of NATO and Al-Quaeda crimes.

When the global media start to spread disinformation to make it seem the Resistance compromises, that should mean that each Libyan must continue to struggle, because when the leaders of the terrorist supporting countries are claiming through media that they want peace, it is clear that they want to have some rest and regroup their forces. It is essential to continue guerrilla war against the invaders with the same pace and exactly according to general strategy.

Now as the Libyan temporary government is created, it is essential for all good minded people and organizations to grant support to it and request from their countries' governments to recognize this government as the only legitimate representative of the Libyan people and the Libyan Jamahiriya.

Prepared for publication by:
Lisa Karpova

S.N.A.F.U.'s picture

If they cut off ZH via DNS, you could still get to it by using ZH's IP address:

(At least that's its IP address from my box.)

pakled's picture

Just in case anyone still has any doubt as to the risks of cloud storage after all that's been said, here is a selected excerpt from cloud service agreement:

Amazon Cloud Drive: Terms of Use  
Last Updated: March 28, 2011


5.2 Our Right to Access Your Files. You give us the right to access, retain, use and disclose your account information and Your Files: to provide you with technical support and address technical issues; to investigate compliance with the terms of this Agreement, enforce the terms of this Agreement and protect the Service and its users from fraud or security threats; or as we determine is necessary to provide the Service or comply with applicable law.  

(Emphasis mine)

Full link here


Element's picture

but... but ... my rights!


Article 12.
  • No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.


The UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, 1948.


I guess the corporate 'people' have more human rights.


Freddie's picture

Hope & Change.   A lot of dumb fkkks voted for this.

Incubus's picture

I like how everyone forgets about GBUSH.

fourchan's picture

theres a murder a day here in detroit and they are worried about this shit?

b_thunder's picture

wanna really screw with wall st?  let's upload all the copyrighted stuff to - the newest "darling" of investment bankers.


Tsukato's picture

Hi GW, Just recieved an interesting email from someone today. Don't know anything about it, but its really interesting. I wonder if anyone else here has recieved this?

Project for a New American Future



Who we are:

We are everyone and we are no one. We are Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Whites, Blacks, Reds, Yellows, Browns, and everything in between. We are the Rich and Destitute. We are the Intelligent and the Feeble Minded. We are the Upstanding and the prisoner, the cop and the drug dealer, the respectable, and the despised of society.

We are soldiers awakened to the fact that we killed for lies and profit. We are the Newly Poor, who have lost, or are in the process of losing everything. We are the prisoner, rotting in a cell for years, for possessing marijuana. We’re those incarcerated for not paying taxes which will be used to destroy the lives of others and ourselves. We are those millions of divorced fathers who have lost their children, homes, money, and life, in a corrupted family court system. We are those who have, or are losing everything, and have found an ever-present reality that sits on a level just below what we always considered normal and real life. We have found meaning, and the desire for liberty. We are everywhere, and number in the thousands. Although we are considered worthless eaters or mere cattle by our superiors, in truth, we are bulls, about to destroy the holding pen. We shall not be led to the stockyards and butcher,. When we finish, there will no longer exist stockyards and butchers. Cattle will never again be thought of as expendable, and disposable. The world is about to be turned on its head.



Who we are not:

We are not the destroyers. We do not destroy cultures, countries, value, morals, families, or lives. We are NOT politicians, bankers, hedge fund managers, derivatives writers, intelligence agency or IRS employees, movie stars, big haired news anchors, or other personalities with million dollar smiles. We are NOT lawyers, judges, lobbyists, communists,  socialists, fundamentalist Christians or Muslims. We are not affiliated with any political movement. We don’t vote. We are not part of the corrupt, spirit destroying systems which are a bane to humanity.


The Problem:

The Problems are not difficult to see as we are immersed in nothing but. An absolutely corrupt political system, bought and paid for by giant financial institutions, arms contractors, foreign governments, pharmaceutical companies, big agri-business, etc.. All are hell bent on total control of the masses, and all material wealth of the world. Throw in the Fed debasing our currency, while liquidating countries trying to escape the dollar yoke, and you can see a system run amuck. However, the main point of contention is CONTROL. This is the fantasy illness rotting our society.

Control is nothing more than an illusion or even, a mental illness. As many people have realized lately, control does not actually exist. It stems from the overriding fear of death most humans live with. Through insurance, home ownership, wealth, children, a busy work schedule, consumer goods, and a myriad of other distractions, people convince themselves they have a hedge against death and a modicum of control in a universe completely beyond their control. At times such as these, the veil drops for many people, and they realize that there is no control. This is a good thing. We Have No Control. Those wishing to control us, need to learn this fundamental rule of life. They are holding all of us back in more ways than you can imagine. A lot of times these Control Freaks are the way they are, due to fear, but many times, its due to greed, cruelty, etc.. Nonetheless, their hold or control needs to be broken. This can be done violently or nonviolently. Neither is wrong. What matters is that the bonds of control are broken, and human freedom is universal. Wealth is continually accumulated and lost. It’s been that way for all of human history, so why would anything be different nowadays? Are people more intelligent now? Been to your local Wal-Mart lately? Turned on your TV lately? Should we even care about these losses? Wealth, money, and prestige are actually fantasies as well. They don’t actually have any reality outside our imaginations. Once a person has hit rock bottom, he can crumple up like a piece of paper, give up, and wait for death’s sweet kiss. OR… he can feel his shackles of bondage are finally broken, and realize that he is in fact a sovereign individual, and as such, is free to do anything he desires, even if it falls outside the boundaries of lawful. This is the birthright of all humans. There is nothing holding any of us back, but ourselves. In other words: never let yourself become a victim. If the system has failed you, then take it upon yourself to work outside the system, or destroy the system. This is everyone’s obligation as human beings. We were not given this wonderful gift of human life to do nothing with it.



The Solution:

All systems must necessarily come to an end. This is not a sad occurrence, but one that should be heartily welcomed. Throughout the developed world there has been a palpable depression coating everyone’s’ lives. Not only in America, but also Japan, Europe, and other countries, people have become disenchanted by life. Anti-depressant use has skyrocketed in developed countries as has recreational drug use. Working for material gain has lost its appeal. The youth in these countries have turned to complete fantasy, via gaming, because the real world is so lackluster and meaningless. Young men in massive numbers are not even pursuing girlfriends, careers, wives, and families anymore, because they see no joy in the status quo paradigm passed on by their parents, but sorely outdated. At conscious or even subconscious levels, people are craving an entirely different way of existing on this planet, and its high time we not let ourselves be held back. Let the END begin.


What we are committed to doing:

We, the beast without a head, a grassroots, highly compartmentalized, loosely associated, movement of individuals, have sworn to do the dirty work when the appropriate time comes. We exist solely outside cyber space, and communicate face to face. However, when the moment for action comes, word will be sent online, and change of regime will be completed within 6 hrs time. The cancerous growths that have been plaguing our society will be liquidated in the quickest, time possible. We believe there is no need to make the sleeping masses more uncomfortable than necessary.


What we ask of you:

Be honest with yourself. Are you happy with the system? Has your life been an amazing adventure,, or a meaningless waste of time?

Fully realize: YOU are going to DIE. You came to this life alone, and you will leave alone. NOTHING will save you from this. ALL that matters is what you do in this life. When you are on your death bed, will you be satisfied that you did all you could, or will you be sorrowful because of lost chances, and cowardice? Because most people are in a catatonic fear to take real action, we ask from the masses a few simple things that are nearly risk free:


Realize the system is finished, and embrace this new reality.


Take part in passive resistance


Take all of your money out of all banks. Pay bills with cashier checks


If your home loan is underwater, stop making payments at once


If you have credit card payments, stop making payments


If you have student loans, stop paying them down.


Don’t worry about your credit score


Do not file your tax returns with the IRS this year.


If a substantial part of society will do these 8 simple things, perhaps the system can be taken down without bloodshed.

DosZap's picture


Who we are: Christians

Who we are not: Fundamentalist Christians

Please, explain how you can be the first, without being the second, and still be a REAL Christian.

Definition would be amusing at best.

AnAnonymous's picture

Please, explain how you can be the first, without being the second, and still be a REAL Christian.


Easy. US citizens love propaganda.

Real is what their propaganda states to be real.

Propaganda states that fundamentalist christians are the real christian.

Propaganda states that non fundamentalist christians are the real christians.

It is kind of a specialisty of Christians to declare that they are false and real Christians.

Eg: first Christians were not real Christians because they were not Calvinist, protestant, baptists.

Vatican is not real Christianity.

Reality: there is nothing like realer christians. Past, today and future christians are as christian as they can be.

Fundamentalist christians as as real christian as the non fundamentalist christians.

Incubus's picture

I am a nihilist, but I don't give a fuck about adhering to any presumptive nihilistic ethos, at anyrate.  So am I a true nihilist, in that I don't care about what any standard of 'nihilism' is, or am I a fake ass nihilist that's setting up subjective standards?

Element's picture

We shall not be led to the stockyards and butcher,. When we finish, there will no longer exist stockyards and butchers. Cattle will never again be thought of as expendable, and disposable.


Dude, I thought they were trying to make me go vegetarian there ... whew!


add this:


(9) Don't respond to any attempts by creditors or debt collectors to contact you, via any means, direct or indirect, and never agree to speak with them or write to them or sign anything, or to call, or to be recorded, or to undertake to repay, nor even to acknowledge any debt exists. Do not identify yourself. Don't even talk to them at all, nor respond to any 'legal' threats of pending action.

g speed's picture

this is the best advise of all-- you're right -- if you ignor them they don't exist-- take insurance for example-- If you have it you pay some of your work (wealth) every day to TPTB-- and if something happens you may get 5 cents on the dollar that you have a contract for. However if you don't have "liability" insurance you don't have deep pockets and no self respecting "ambulance chaser" or "tort whore" will touch the case against you. Ergo, the insurance you don't have protects you best.

DosZap's picture

g speed

Ergo, the insurance you don't have protects you best.

While I agree w/you to an extent, IF you have SOMETHING to lose,you best have Liability Ins, and lots of it.

Doubtful many street people or the indigent are reading ZH.

SeanJKerrigan's picture

Salon has an article noting how in Manning's trial, the jury is hand picked and only needs to return with a 2/3 majority to convict.  Sounds fair.

Also, I think you'll like this.  Reuters notes that there's a "subculture" of people expecting the economy to collapse!  That's just great huh?

Element's picture

Good article GW ... I'd never store my files on someone else's 'puter, and never understood why anyone would risk that.

WTF is wrong with a USB stick or a DVD burner or an external HDD caddy?

A 'run' on the databank?

honestann's picture

Exactly.  And thus, if Obama was consistent, he would have to arrest every politician and beauracrat in every organization that runs any government airport, station or building of any kind that EVER had ANYONE store ANYTHING illegal there.  Which means, Obama needs to have himself and all his friends arrested and locked up FOREVER without lawyer or trial.

The USSA is now 100% officially and aggressively a viscious totalitarian dictatorship, with absolution zero qualifications.

Incubus's picture

hey, if I was getting kickbacks from the MPAA and RIAA to be their attack dog, why would I want to change anything?   I'm sure these guys are all living very comfortably.  They'll salivate just as much as any one of pavlov's dogs.   They don't care about "freedom of information" or anything like that;  they're living in an insular world, away from the unwashed masses like you and I.  So, what affects us does not affect them.

Rogue Economist's picture

Repost from Reverse Engineering

Off the direct Economic front, the Big Newz of the week was first the Failure of SOPA to get the votes in CONgress needed once Google and Wiki and other internet giants came down agaisnt it, then followed by the FBI takedown of MegaUpload, a cloud computing service where people store files, many of them of course not precisely legal files or without Copyright issues.

To me, the whole Cloud Computing idea is just Nuts to begin with.  Why anyone would expect their data to remain Secure on somebody else's Computer is crazy.  Anybody who stores data ONLY on a remote computer is BEYOND crazy, yet many people including the Biz I work for does this (despite my strenuous objections to it).

All the companies which once provided Software for your Computer to run Database programs and so forth hardly offer them anymore, what they offer instead is a SERVICE you access on the Web where you drop in all your data and a program housed on a remote computer does all the sorting and tallying of said data.  About the only thing you have on your computer is the password to get into "your" account.

The day the Net goes down?  You are SOL.  You can't access any of your old data.  Cloud Company goes BK? You can't access any of your old data. You run into financial difficulties and can't pay your Monthly Bill?  You can't access any of your old data.

Why would ANYBODY use this methodology?  The "convenience" of being able to acess it from anywhere on the Web, but moreso because you simply cannot GET the software to do similar tasks resident on your home computer anymore, unless you simply pay through the nose for an independent software developer to write it for you.

The model of making MONEY off of software programs for your home or biz computers broke down as a result of ubiquitous Pirating of said software, which Microsoft spent a 2 decades long battle trying to put a lid on, but never succeeded, thus eventually becoming superceeded by Google and the idea of Cloud Computing.

This latest takedown of MegaUpload though reveals the inherent weakness of cloud computing, which is that if it is not in your POSSESSION, you do not OWN it.  The problem of course for many even LEGITAMATE biznesses is they cannot get hold of software anymore at reasonable prices which will operate on their OWN computers.  Plus of course they are all addicted to the Web now, and doing Bizness with Birck & Mortar stores is just so Passe.

Far as pirated Movies and Books and other "intellectual Property" are concerned, taking down MegaUpload puts a dent in it, but the Hackers of Anonymous are sure to break all copyright protection schemes and sure also to find more distributed means of storing the data on billions of hard drives scattered about the net.

The whole bizness is abotu tieing up IDEAS as Property in much the same way Resources are tied up as Property.  By centralizing the Storage, by controlling the Access, you can turn it into a Conduit for revenue production.  those that want or need the service have to PAY for it.  Ideas are quite a bit harder to tie up this way, though lord only knows the Illuminati have been trying to use the legal system for doing so ever since the idea of a "Patent" or "Copyright" was conjured up.

Fortunately for all of us, the most Important Ideas are all long since in the Public Domain.  However, each time we let ourselves become attached to more complex Conduits we "cannot live without", we surrender more of our Freedom.  Your Smartphone does not make you more Free, it puts you in BONDAGE to the people who make the Phones and run the Networks.  Your Car does not make you more Free, it puts you in bondage to the folks who make the Cars and supply the Fuel.

The Personal Computer DOES make you more Free, besides its ability to help you in developing your own ideas, it also makes it more possible to copy and store many dieas of others that can help you in your creative attempts at taking the Next Step.  The Net and Cloud Computing are evolutions which retract that freedom.

It is up to the Hackers of Anonymous to combat this.  The Geeks have to keep working to develop distributed networks which have no central hubs.  They have to keep attacking the central hubs with DDoS attacks.  They have to keep compromising "secure" central databases.

This is a numbers problem I am confident the Hackers of Anonymous will WIN.  There are going to be many more Unemployed Network Engineers with an Axe to Grind than there are employed ones.  Eventually here, one REALLY smart one is going to get the Axe as his job is outsourced to India, and he will let loose a Virus that will take the whole fucking Net down, Clouds and all.  That is Baked in the Cake here.


honestann's picture

So much for "public domain".  Recently they've introduced the notion of re-copyrighting things.  With barely a tweak or judge [paid] "interpretation", they are now ready to claim that ALL WORKS can be RE-copyrighted BY OTHER PARTIES (like the government).  So we are one step away from them saying "everything in the library of congress or copyright-office or patent-office are now exclusive property of the USSA".

When will regular people... or even intelligent people... understand how completely far off the reservation these predators are?  Wake up, humans.  You are about to be wholesale exterminated, and the window of opportunity to do something about it is closing FAST.