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New Study – Traders are worse than Psychopaths
The University in St. Gallen, Switzerland (how appropriate) has come out with a study that compares traders with psychopaths. The surprising result was that not only do traders act like psychos, they’re worse. I’m not surprised at this at all. From NZZ:
The study reviewed the direct comparison of results with an existing study of 24 psychopaths in German high-security hospitals and a control group of 27 "normal" people.
The “normal people” that is referred to are 27 traders. Stock guys, FX/commodities traders and derivative types were the “normal' people that were stacked up against the actual crazies in the German nut house.
Even the experts were surprised by the result. They attest to the stock market professionals with a penchant for immense destruction.
The performance of the 27 dealers is even worse than the psychopaths.
"It's like beating one of the neighbor’s expensive cars with a baseball bat with the sole objective of owning the most beautiful car in the neighborhood."
Now that we “know” (what was has been suspected all along) that traders are nuts it’s worth looking at what a textbook definition of a psycho actually is.
1. Considerable superficial charm, verbal facility and average or above average intelligence.
2. Unreliability, disregard for obligations, no sense of responsibility.
3. Untruthfulness and insincerity.
4. Inexplicable impulsiveness.
5. Antisocial behavior.
6. Poor judgment and failure to learn from experience.
7. Total self-centeredness.
8. General poverty of deep and lasting emotions.
9. Lack of any true insight, inability to see oneself as others do.
10. Fantastic and objectionable behavior, after drinking and sometimes even when not drinking--vulgarity, rudeness, quick mood shifts, pranks.
11. An impersonal, trivial, and poorly integrated sex life.
.
There was a point in my life where I thought of myself as a successful trader. A “Master of the Universe”; a “Big swinging dick”. That was 20 years ago. Looking at the above list makes me cringe. To one degree or another all the descriptions fit parts of my life at the time.
I’m “All better” now…….
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freightening bc I was DATING a woman that had ALL of those traits!
if only she were a trader I wouldn't have had to pay for everything -- strike that she would have manipulated me into paying until i wouldn't.
if only she was institutionalized i wouldn't have learned massive lessons some of which will be obvious to most, but nonetheless applicable and possibly helpful reminder for all here:
That's odd. Where did you meet Shelly?
Actually, that list is a damn good description of post-war American females (dykes too), but it would be politically incorrect to tell the truth;)
You just haven't met the right one.
kaiser her name kinda sorta rhymes with Shelly..........in fact, i think they all kinda sound and certainly feel the same. and don't worry about PC and Truth -- we are safe here at ZH.............the key is to secure healthy kind gentlewoman, and while rare is certainly possible; kinda like short positions timed well............
Are you calling my family crazy? Don't deny it, you described them to a T.
Sounds like Barry Soetero, Bill Clinton, the Bush crime family, Lyndon B. Johnson, and most of the people in Washington DC.
Those guys are flippin pikers next to the wall-street/bankster/financial-vulture crowd. Get your priorities straight.
.... note btw that capitalism tends to act as a nutrient-rich culture medium for the development and full expression of most of those behaviors and traits. It brings out the worst -- most psychopathic side -- of most people, or many.
Interesting, two historical sociopaths agree with you: Adolph Hitler and Vladimir Lenin. Of course I could also add, Benito Mussolini, Chairman Mao, Joseph Stalin and numerous other twentieth century mass murders and tyrants.
Um, explain to me again how Hitler and Mussolini were anti-capitalist?! Those guys were in bed with industrial leaders and the key money people from the start. The "socialism" in National Socialism was bullshit.
Mao was no mass murderer; that's a lie. Stalin WAS a mass-murderer. The USSR's system of state capitalism bore little resemblance to the claimed "communism".
You need to start looking up their quotes. All of those listed have quotes to the effect that capitalism begets psychopathy. I assume that they would know what they were talking about.
"state capitalism"
Nice. You must've racked up 20 out of 20 on the criteria checklist.
BTW, capitalism doesn't feature tyrants or any political leaders "in bed with industrial leaders and key money people." That's sorta the problem in the way of capitalism, dood.
Junked for economic illiteracy.
In bed with industrial leaders means you're a fascist, like most of our leaders today.
"Money is the root of all evil"?
andybev01,
Quote it in context, all of it...........you of course left of the LOVE of.
Or delete more to get "Money is the root of all"
No, but cold-blooded, ruthless lusting after it is.
You are pissing into the wind on this, Bruce.
To survive, traders have to be right more often than they are wrong.
When was that ever true of the politicians, the kleptocrats, or the "I know the one true will of GAWD" crowd?
I'm not pissing. Possibly the University of St. Gallen, but not me. I just write about stuff I see.
Dfine "trivial or poorly integrated sex life" exactly. Anywho we had psych-profiles done of us in special ops and so far as I can tell these guys seem pretty normal relative to me. Maybe it's because the murders they commit are "legal" in the sense that they aren't using an actual gun to do it.
After some time, I'm beginning to understand the black hole in the center of Bruce's brain. There was a time, in the distant past, when he actually worked for a living, but then he went over to the dark side.
You have no respect for an honest day's work, Bruce, which is why you hate and fear free markets. It's an all too common disease in New Yawk, but it's also why America is dying. THINK ABOUT IT. SOMEONE HAS TO BE THE GROWNUP! But in Krasting Land, and Mom's basement, it's so much more fun to ridicule the grown-ups. Good luck with that.
"You sit around here and you spin your little webs and you think the whole world revolves around you and your money! Well, it doesn't, Mr. Potter! In the, in the whole vast configuration of things, I'd say you were nothing but a scurvy little spider! "
George Bailey, 'It's a Wonderful Life"
Yes to see the future, look to the past. In the soon-to-be future, if you are involved in any way with the financial industry, prepare to be shunned by your neighbor, your friends, and perhaps even your own family. Wealth isn't all that money buys. Can't you sense the growing anger? The feeling of helpless desperation? These are people who did all the right things, went to school, got a job, bought a house. And it is not working out. Not at all. And you know what? At the end of the day, they blame the financial services industry for taking down the world. Do not expect them to forgive or forget, at least not for a generation or so.
This one tho, seems to see quite clearly.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/26/trader-to-bbc-goldman-sachs-gol...
If you grew up on video games, you might want something slightly more real once you enter professional life.
So why not make some real killing as trader or in the Army guiding drones to target Afghan civilians.
After all you find yourself sitting in front of the same old screen.
Are you sure 1 through 11 did not just describe the US political class?
Krasting, based on your previous treatises on illegal immigration, you are still at least 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 and 9. your self-grandiose posturing prevents you from even hiding your true self from a casual observer, Narcissus. but there are still enough naive to listen to your crap.
Fan mail!
Those "naive" folks yr talking about add up to a million a month.
Your Pal,
bk
If eyeballs and clicks are the yardstick by which greatness is measured, the one they call Snooki (spelling?) is Aristotle, Shakespeare and Bach all rolled into one.
Yes; pitiful isn't it? And, Bruce; a million idiots is nothing now-adays; absolutely nothing. There's a million semi-literate uneducated enthusiasts for anything you can think of, and several things you can't even think of, in every population center in this great festering pimple of human malaise.
IMHO you get worse results being sentimental...
So how high was the lunatic asylum's fund return last year ?
bruce do you read german? i clicked on your link and its all in german- would like to see that study itself (i dont read german)
2 Dozen psychos in Germany? Surely, there are more than that. This things reeks of small sample size bias. I dont doubt that some traders probably are psychopathic, but to extrapolate to entire subgroup based on this scant data...
So what you are saying is you don't have to be bat shit crazy to be a trader but it helps?
..................................................................
"Models and bottles"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85lpWoESHUM
Traders exhibit the symptoms of gambling addiction. The talking heads on the financial networks are no different than the touts at the racetrack. How many traders play video poker, as a hobby? Perhaps I should write a blog titled, "The Thrill Of The Almost Acquired". I'd have to find a theme and setting that wasn't worn out, already.
http://georgesblogforum.wordpress.com/2011/08/09/fiat-addiction-update-0...
Alessio Rastani
SOB.
This guy proved it, HE simply stated they CARE about nothing to do with any economy, just their own COMMISSIONS.
The WORLD can go to hell...........as long as I got mine,they go to bed thinking, hoping and praying for Global instability, and chaos.
One thing he said that stood out..................
Govts do not control the economy GOLDMAN SUCKS DOES
2. Unreliability, disregard for obligations, no sense of responsibility = driven by internal goals, not others' expectations
3. Untruthfulness and insincerity = you can't stand what they say because you can't handle the truth
4. Inexplicable impulsiveness = they trust their gut
5. Antisocial behavior = distrustful of groupthink
6. Poor judgment and failure to learn from experience = their work is done in spite of the financial universe being radically alterated just about every six months
7. Total self-centeredness = they want their FU money so they can leave ASAP
8. General poverty of deep and lasting emotions = dismissive of emotions as a guide to behavior
9. Lack of any true insight, inability to see oneself as others do = others can't handle what they do, much less understand it
10. Fantastic and objectionable behavior, after drinking and sometimes even when not drinking--vulgarity, rudeness, quick mood shifts, pranks = they work hard and party hard
11. An impersonal, trivial, and poorly integrated sex life = at least they have sex
you tell 'em jm ! Thing is, we psycopaths are just like you; only worse.
I love it! A beautiful intellectual defense of psychopathy!
Yes, we can make being a cold-blooded, self-centered, antisocial, insensitive bastard into a VIRTUE! It CAN be done! Ayn Rand did the original work, but we can do better.
It is better than raising whining, blaming others, blind slavery to theories of all stripe, and acting like a helpless sheep to the ideal standard of behavior.
If you really believe that that is the choice, then you're a lot further gone than I thought you were.
Of course it's not the only two choices. It is just the equivalent opposite to ranting about psychopathic, blood-thirsty, anti-social types that generalize beyond the facts.
you simply prove the adage that "it takes one to know one"
EXACTLY!
:). Hey we're all crazy in one way or another. The sad part is, now that you guys have spelled out what it is to be one of "The masters of the universe", scores of stupid wannabe wankers will go out of their way to emulate being a psychopath. Clerks, shoe salesmen, accountants, and supermarket checkout girls all going nuts so they can look like traders. That's how crazy people already are, outside the industry.
Imo, traders are lost little boys and girls who cry themselves to sleep because they are scared witless most days. Except for the true alpha psychos, any bravado they display is just a veneer.
I've observed that markets are great teachers. They force you to take things as they are, not how they ought to be, to care of yourself and instead of acting helpless.
I don't think you will find too many cry-babies running around. They just don't last. In all careers, people that last are those that take their business seriously, do right by their mandates, and take a genuine interest in the work.
I was with with you until:
"9. Lack of any true insight, inability to see oneself as others do = others can't handle what they do, much less understand it "
-c'mon, really? Traders as Masters of the Universe? What you interpret as "not being able to handle or understand what they're doing" might really be "not caring about what they're doing".... After all, Econ101 teaches us that healthy markets can maintain themselves without traders running around trying to lop each others' heads off with pretend swords hammered from statistics and fractals.
"10. Fantastic and objectionable behavior, after drinking and sometimes even when not drinking--vulgarity, rudeness, quick mood shifts, pranks = they work hard and party hard"
- Without any introspection about whether or not that "work" actually adds any practical or cumulative economic value to , well, anything...
But I was back on board with the last point, so 8 out of 11 ain't bad.
There are no masters of the universe. People want outsize returns or they drawdown. Then they are shocked, just SHOCKED at how you got the outsize returns for them.
There are liars and low-lives in every line of work.
I could pretty much say yes to all those questions, but I will tell you a secret, about what is the difference between traders making millions and psychopats sitting in jail
the traders know how to fool society the 'normal' psychos do not, they are introverts while psychos are extroverts
Psychos do not believe in themselves enough to work with others.
Traders, investors, asswipes (folks who believe money begots more money while providing no value in return) work on others beliefs to mold them into their own.
Get rid of USURY on currency and this whole thing becomes a non issue.
>Traders are worse than Psychopaths
Well duh...