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The Osawatomie Speech: A Defining Moment In History

Econophile's picture




 

This article originally appeared in the Daily Capitalist.

COMMENTARY

I am not a fan of Barack Obama, but I have not criticized him as harshly as many other writers do. I have a different view of him. I see him as a rather run of the mill Progressive/Liberal who firmly believes his ideology and acts somewhat consistently on those ideas. Rather than pillory him personally, my approach has been to criticize the philosophy of which he is a product. In my mind, it's all about ideas. I detest his ideas because I believe they are anti-intellectual and they don't work. 

There are many like Mr. Obama out there. His admirers perceive themselves as being the "downtrodden", envious of the accomplishments and wealth of those whose abilities they cannot match. I get that: if you can't achieve it, take it from those who can. Even those limousine liberals who have wealth and accomplishment perceive themselves as either being guilty of their wealth or come from backgrounds where these ideas are passed along. Mr. Obama is no different than any other politician: he seeks power and admiration and the ability to impose his ideas on America.

We here at the Daily Capitalist try everyday to combat those ideas by demonstrating their lack of efficacy and by presenting analyses of events in a free market framework which analyses have actually been quite accurate in forecasting economic outcomes. We try to be the antidote to the Progressive juggernaut. 

And then I heard President Obama's speech at Osawatomie, Kansas this week.

It perhaps wasn't surprising, but I was appalled. It was deceitful, inaccurate, revisionist, and demagogic. 

Mr. Obama uses every cliché in the Progressive handbook to make his point. His direct point was that the "rich" should pay more taxes. The underlying point and theme of his speech was that individual effort, individualism, free market capitalism, and success is a gift bestowed by "society" on the successful and that what "society" grants, it can take away because "society" needs it. It is the collective versus the individual.

His speech is a recreation, a fabrication if you will, of history, economics, and philosophy into a Pandoran construct of collectivist statism whereby society can demand the individual's obedience and obeisance. In short, folks, it's a crock.

If you think I am exaggerating, I urge you to read or hear his entire speech. You may find the full text and video of the speech here.

Here is just one typical statement from his speech:

Now, just as there was in Teddy Roosevelt’s time, there is a certain crowd in Washington who, for the last few decades, have said, let’s respond to this economic challenge with the same old tune. “The market will take care of everything,” they tell us. If we just cut more regulations and cut more taxes — especially for the wealthy — our economy will grow stronger. Sure, they say, there will be winners and losers. But if the winners do really well, then jobs and prosperity will eventually trickle down to everybody else. And, they argue, even if prosperity doesn’t trickle down, well, that’s the price of liberty.

 

Now, it’s a simple theory. And we have to admit, it’s one that speaks to our rugged individualism and our healthy skepticism of too much government. That’s in America’s DNA. And that theory fits well on a bumper sticker. (Laughter.) But here’s the problem: It doesn’t work. It has never worked. (Applause.) It didn’t work when it was tried in the decade before the Great Depression. It’s not what led to the incredible postwar booms of the ‘50s and ‘60s. And it didn’t work when we tried it during the last decade. (Applause.) I mean, understand, it’s not as if we haven’t tried this theory.

This is the stuff that demagogues spew to the guileless. And the problem is that he believes it with all his heart. The man is not stupid nor slow on his feet, despite what his harshest critics day. He's not a mere puppet of the union bosses. He's bright, articulate, and well educated. Yet he has learned nothing despite his years of education and now he's at the vanguard of the Progessive/socialist/welfare statist/national corporatist movement in America. If he has the force of personality he could be another Franklin Roosevelt, the president who did more harm to America than any other leader in our history. Fortunately, he may not have that strength of character.

While we may criticize the Republicans for being much of the same, there is still a difference. We are, as I have noted before, at a tipping point in America where:

Nearly half, 48.5%, of the population lived in a household that received some type of government benefit in the first quarter of 2010, according to Census data. Those numbers have risen since the middle of the recession when 44.4% lived households receiving benefits in the third quarter of 2008.

No wonder the audience at Osawatomie loved him.

This is what has happened to much of Europe where welfare recipients voted themselves increasing benefits and economic stagnation and eventual bankruptcy. This is exactly where we are headed politically.

And this is why this election is critical. We must turn this ship around.

 

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Fri, 12/09/2011 - 22:24 | 1965203 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Chavez is taking Venezuela over the cliff of economic sustainability. Confiscation of public companies for the time being will keep Venezuala running for a while. However, no one there will call this a successful economy. Just like all other socialist regimes it will end in massive debt. I wouldn't call Chavez crazy but I would call him a retard on economics. What he's doing is not exactly standing against the global machine.

Getting gold shipped to him was savy. Yet, it's also likely he needs the gold to run his economy. Remember, he's sent all the successful public companies in many industries out of the country by yes confiscating their assets.

It's not the kind of spirit America needs.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 20:54 | 1964986 MFL8240
MFL8240's picture

But we have guns.

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 11:46 | 1965997 Reptil
Reptil's picture

I'm sure that's an ironic remark.
Yes you have guns. But, automatic rifle vs. Apache gunship? eeh.. And on whom will these guns be used? Other citizens (that have taken up looting), or perhaps the police? Police are expendable, robots to do their chores better, more efficient, without any ethical considerations, have already been designed, and are now being commissioned right now. With remote control at first but autonomous later. It's a logical progression.

tick..tock..tick..tock

Guns are a false assurance against something WAY more powerful in the near future. If you want to make use of your guns, it would not help if these are used in a chaos. First there has to be unity. Otherwise gun owners will be picked off one by one. With the sheeple watching by helplessly, confused.

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 12:26 | 1966070 Thucydides
Thucydides's picture

"There is no holier spot of ground than where defeated valor lies, by mourning beauty crowned"  The inscription at the base of the monument to the sons of South Carolina who fought and died for their rights at Gettysburg.

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 12:13 | 1966039 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

The Colt .45 became recognized as the great equalizer not because the little guy always managed to blow away the bully but because of the bully's knowledge that any of his victims might be packing a Colt and know how to use it.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 20:30 | 1964908 MorningStar
MorningStar's picture

Revolution does not cause change....change causes revolution.  We see that in all revolutions & it's usually when the people are ruled by a tyranny (even a benevolant tyranny. 

Might read a good book out about a small town in American that finally takes a stand against tyranny (kind of like Bunker Hill).  It's a thriller novel so I recommend it.

booksbyoliver.com

Obama isn't the dictator of Ameria, but those behind the curtain are pushing him into turn us away from the fundamentals of the Constitution for profit or power.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 18:58 | 1964710 Lone Deranger
Lone Deranger's picture

The Federal Transit Administation just sent $900 million to Houston's metro transit allowing them to build more light rail.  On the surface, there's probably Obama supporters that think that's really awesome.   But what is the reality??

The reality is that Houston Metro is run by group of overpaid parasites.  The 3500, or so, employees are there for the "workfare" job that's been handed out in some uber politically correct manner. Houston Metro itself only takes in 20% of the required funds to maintain itself - the other whopping 80% comes from taxpayers in various forms.  Like the FTA's tax on gasoline.

Houston currently has one light rail line that is consistently packed with non-paying customers.  It's a magnet for homeless, criminal, and other undesirables.  The inside of the train smells like a sanitized animal shelter due to frequent urininations on the fabric seats.  So what makes sense for the Feds?  Let's build more rail for the people, to provide "shovel-ready" jobs, and inexpensive transportation for those less fortunate. 

The other side of the $1.5 billion proposed expansion are the corrupt insiders who, and of course the prime contractor who camped out in Washington DC with the likes of Sheila Jackson Lee.  SJL pushed hard on the Obama administration to get this money - and she got it.  Now she along with all the other liberal cronies can celebrate their moneyfest, and use it as re-election fodder.

In ten years, these rail lines will probably be too dangerous to even walk around unless a constant police presence is there.  These trains and their tracks will break down requiring millions of dollars to repair.  The whole thing is a joke, and is an example of how the Feds pour money down the drain.  Let's take money from the rich, and distribute it to those who really need it.  Hooray!  Long live socialist ideals!  /sarc

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 23:39 | 1965360 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Give me a call in 10 years when oil is the equivalent of $200 a bbl or simply rationed... let me know how it worked out...

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 17:09 | 1968225 Lone Deranger
Lone Deranger's picture

I sure the hell won't be near this inner-city rail disaster.

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 01:08 | 1965483 effinayright
effinayright's picture

I guess you haven't noticed that with each passing day the amount of proven reserves of oil and natural gas have been growing by leaps and bounds.  I guess you haven't noticed that the USA is now a NET EXPORTER of gasoline.

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 01:37 | 1965503 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Uhh... ok, you are really up on things, net exporter of gas... yep, you are right.... Here is a repost of mine from last week  

1936420

=======

Just came across this from a independent geologist in Texas (Westexas), thought it fit in:

Front page WSJ story yesterday: “U.S. Nears Milestone: Net Fuel Exporter”

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405297020344170457706867048830624...

 

For 2011, it appears that the US is on track to be net exporter of refined petroleum products, on the order of about 0.2 mbpd. Although the WSJ reporters did note, several paragraphs into the story, that the US remains the world’s largest net oil importer, in both terms of crude oil and total petroleum liquids, I suspect that many casual readers will conclude that the US is now a net oil exporter.

 

We have of course seen increasing US oil (and gas) production. If we look at the pre-hurricane production data in 2004, versus 2010, US total petroleum liquids production rose from 7.2 mbpd in 2004 to 7.5 mbpd in 2010, an increase of 0.3 mbpd (BP). Note that BP does not count biofuels and refinery gains in the production numbers.

 

Over the same time frame, 2004 to 2010, US consumption fell from 20.7 mbpd to 19.1 mbpd, a decline of 1.6 mbpd. Based on the BP data, US net oil imports fell from 13.5 mbpd in 2004 to 11.6 mbpd in 2010, a decline of 1.9 mbpd. Declining consumption resulted in 84% of the 2004 to 2010 decline in US net oil imports.

 

Therefore, the primary contributor to the US becoming a net exporter of refined products and the primary contributor to the decline in US net oil imports is declining consumption in the US, as the US and many other developed countries have been forced, post-2005, to take a declining share of a falling volume of Global Net Exports (GNE), which are calculated in terms of Total Petroleum Liquids.

 

So, the WSJ reporters are taking a symptom of Peak Exports, i.e., declining US oil consumption, and presenting it as a positive story.

 

There are apparently 196 countries in the world. If we assume about a half dozen inconsequential net oil exporters, in addition to the top 33 net oil exporters that we studied, that leaves about 157 net oil importing countries. So, if we extrapolate current trends, just two of these net oil importers, China & India, would consume 100% of the global supply of (net) exported oil in only 19 years, leaving nothing for the other 155 current net oil importing countries.

 

I continue to be mystified that this factual statement is not the #1 story in the world.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 18:38 | 1964647 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Wait a minute... you mean you actually listen to political speeches? Worse yet, they upset you?

Wow, I didn't know people like you still existed. Where's your well developed sense of cynicism? Can't you recognize a criminal cartel when you see one?

Please, step away from the voting machine. it is people like you that empower people like him.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 18:44 | 1964669 trav7777
trav7777's picture

it wasn't a defining moment in fuckin history, nobody is even LISTENING to this negroe anymore

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 21:35 | 1965083 lotsoffun
lotsoffun's picture

hey trav - let's have lots of fun. 

i started getting spam 'donate to obama'  i asked 4 times to stop.  it woudldn't stop.  finally i said:

i will send you lots of money - if:

1 - obama releases his college records and pays back the free ride he got.

2 - fires the surrounding idiots beginning with geithner and bernacke

3 - hand back his noble prize and then resigns.

the emails stopped.

 

 

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 18:36 | 1964636 denny69
denny69's picture

Whenever someone blames government and Joe citizen for the economic decline they're usually, 1. Receiving large amounts of gov't subsidies 2. Forgetting to mention that regulations haven't been enforced since Reagan and boy, how well that's worked for the average Joe. 3. Trickle down's been in effect since Reagan and the economy just continues to get worse. 4. The Wall Street boyz and the Big Banks trashed every regulation which was still in place and filled their pockets with our wealth causing this current depression/recession. 5. These same scam artists and this author is undoubtedly one of them have evolved an entire psychology/theology/methodology system for blaming us, the average citizen, for their grifter/grafter actions and the only sad thing about that is how some people actually believe it. 6. "Free" market capitalism hasn't been in place for over twenty years now. Between the scam artists on Wall St. and Greenspan and the Bernank, what's being called 'capitalism' is a far cry from the way it was practiced thirty and more years ago. It's some kind of financial system; but it ain't capitalism. Too many folks have lost far too much to continue referring to it as "Free Market" Capitalism. This author is a liar and most likely a thief.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 23:07 | 1965302 Joe the Pimpernel
Joe the Pimpernel's picture

Wow. All you have are straw-men and outright lies.

You and Ubama should do the Larry Sinclair.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 22:43 | 1965252 KK Tipton
KK Tipton's picture

Your #5 is on the money.

Liberal communists:
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n07/slavoj-zizek/nobody-has-to-be-vile

"This isn’t an entirely new phenomenon. Remember Andrew Carnegie, who employed a private army to suppress organised labour in his steelworks and then distributed large parts of his wealth for educational, cultural and humanitarian causes, proving that, although a man of steel, he had a heart of gold? In the same way, today’s liberal communists give away with one hand what they grabbed with the other."

"it is what makes a figure like Soros so objectionable. He stands for ruthless financial exploitation combined with its counter-agent, humanitarian worry about the catastrophic social consequences of the unbridled market economy. Soros’s daily routine is a lie embodied: half of his working time is devoted to financial speculation, the other half to ‘humanitarian’ activities (financing cultural and democratic activities in post-Communist countries, writing essays and books) which work against the effects of his own speculations. The two faces of Bill Gates are exactly like the two faces of Soros: on the one hand, a cruel businessman, destroying or buying out competitors, aiming at a virtual monopoly; on the other, the great philanthropist who makes a point of saying: ‘What does it serve to have computers if people do not have enough to eat?"

"We should have no illusions: liberal communists are the enemy of every true progressive struggle today. All other enemies – religious fundamentalists, terrorists, corrupt and inefficient state bureaucracies – depend on contingent local circumstances. Precisely because they want to resolve all these secondary malfunctions of the global system, liberal communists are the direct embodiment of what is wrong with the system."

"They may fight subjective violence, but liberal communists are the agents of the structural violence that creates the conditions for explosions of subjective violence. The same Soros who gives millions to fund education has ruined the lives of thousands thanks to his financial speculations and in doing so created the conditions for the rise of the intolerance he denounces."

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 18:27 | 1964612 Stroke
Stroke's picture

VOTE FOR RON PAUL, EVEN IF YOU THINK HE CAN'T WIN

IT'S IMPORTANT TO VOTE, AND YOU CANT VOTE FOR OBAMA

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 19:41 | 1964798 percolator
percolator's picture

Totally agree and you can't vote for Romney or Gingrich, so if Paul doesn't get the nomination everyone needs to vote for Bill Still http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=198608

 

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 18:26 | 1964610 InconvenientCou...
InconvenientCounterParty's picture

Take away benefits and send the zombies your address and gate code instead.

Or were you counting on the evil commie unions to come save you? Or perhaps the U.S miltary operating "hot" within U.S. borders?

In any case, I doubt you are prepared to wear the big boy pants.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 18:20 | 1964592 player333
player333's picture

Obama is a product of his culture and environment, who was his Dad, (why do you think he sent W Churchill's stature back to the British, who colonized Kenya), who were and are his friends, Bill Ayers, who were his advisors and professors at Columbia and Harvard. I will give him a break on J Wright, Michelle is the black nationalist, O just went to church where his wife said, let's go-although he did not object.

Why are we surprised-would you elect Jesse James to manage FT Knox, O is bent on the Cloward-Piven destruction of America. I have a very dear friend a life long academic-non profit employee, white guilt feeling, the sun is always shining personality, lets take hope and change type of person-a good soul but absolutely no comprehension of the real gritty world. When the SHTF I will probably have to protect and feed her. There are millions of these folks walking around in a daze, combine that with the 48% of people that do not pay any tax and we the producers are doomed.

Buy and store PM's learn to feed and protect yourself-and friends -the cultral divide between the haves and not's is going viral. That seperation is mainly caused by Federal policies over the last 65 years-but that is another conversation.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 18:18 | 1964583 cdskiller
cdskiller's picture

There you go again, Tyler. Serving your readers the rotten meat of reactionary idiocy to make yourself look good, by comparison. Econophile is unworthy of the space. He is intellectually weak and disingenuous, looking only to provoke. We can do better. Don't sully zerohedge in this way anymore. Life is too short.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 19:09 | 1964730 masterinchancery
masterinchancery's picture

If you can't inject some intellectual content into your posts, please get off the forum. You are an idiot.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 23:48 | 1965369 cdskiller
cdskiller's picture

You are so far beneath me you don't deserve this, but I do believe it's important to help people grow in understanding of the world whenever possible, and so-


  • joe
  • new york
  • NYT Pick
    •  
    •  
    •  

     

    The really important and, so far, un-asked question is why Britain insisted its financial institutions be exempt from any jointly agreed upon financial regulations. I'll tell you why. Because the problem is not Greece, or Italy, or Spain, or Ireland, or Portugal or Germany. The problem is in England and the United States. Those two countries are the origin of the speculation that caused a global financial contagion and remain the center of a cancerous derivatives market that has, WITHOUT MEDIA ATTENTION, exploded again this year to over $707 trillion dollars, breaking the record it set in mid-2008, just before the crash.
    You think the United States would cede control over its financial institution regulatory framework to an international organization? Uh-huh. Not in a million years. The belly of that beast is too ugly. Britain has extraordinarily lax regulations with respect to leveraged re-hypothication of borrowed capital. That's why it became very attractive to companies like A.I.G. and M.F. Global. You think they want to let someone else lift the curtain on that?
    When the mother of all margin calls occurs and the global debt titanic goes down, and the global derivative pyramid scheme the U.S. and Britain built collapses, it will be every man for himself.

    Sat, 12/10/2011 - 09:06 | 1965805 Optimusprime
    Optimusprime's picture

    +1 CDS killer.  Keep the eye on the ball.

    Sat, 12/10/2011 - 01:13 | 1965486 effinayright
    effinayright's picture

    Yes, yes, of course.   It was America and the Brits who forced the PIIGS to borrow and piss away all that money! 

    Fri, 12/09/2011 - 18:39 | 1964652 Freddie
    Freddie's picture

     He is intellectually weak and disingenuous, looking only to provoke.

    Sounds like your muslim who is a friends with Democrat Jon Corzine.

    Fri, 12/09/2011 - 21:57 | 1965139 TheMerryPrankster
    TheMerryPrankster's picture

    Pure Freddie, like a hornet aroused, only one target in life, he buzzes a great noise at the merest, slightest hint of a tangential relationship to the Muslim he fears more than death itself.

    Thank you Freddie, I'm saving your posts to publish in a volume of how not to engage in intellectual debate or general conversation. I think your chapter will be a must read.

    Prepare for your 14.5 minutes of fame and leisure, you've earned it.

    Fri, 12/09/2011 - 18:15 | 1964560 Zero Govt
    Zero Govt's picture

    Mr. Obama uses every cliché in the Progressive handbook ..His direct point was that the "rich" should pay more taxes.

    No the non-taxpayers and welfare spongers should get off their arses and contribute ...the slackers, like Bumma, should step up to the plate first.. lead by example oh President O

    The underlying point ...was that individual effort, individualism, free market capitalism, and success is a gift bestowed by "society" on the successful and that what "society" grants, it can take away because "society" needs it. It is the collective versus the individual.

    Bumma should get off his lazy pampered systemic crony arse and show us how it's done ..instead of losing $400m of taxpayers money to a toxic bankrupt green sham he should go out and make $4,000 profit and send £1,000 to the IRS and see how he feels 

    His speech is a recreation, a fabrication if you will, of history, economics, and philosophy into a Pandoran construct of collectivist statism whereby society can demand the individual's obedience and obeisance. In short, folks, it's a crock.

    The State has failed miserably and completely at every part of the economy it has (mis)managed.

    Obumma needs to check out (bankrupt) US healthcare

    (bankrupt) US property

    (bankrupt) Fanny and Freddie

    (bankrupt) trains and buses

    (bankrupt) space programme

    (bankrupt) Detroit, New Jersey, Calfornia and his hometown for Marxist Gangsters, Chicago (bankrupt)

    In order for Bumma to teach anybody anything with his big lying fatuous gob, he needs to turn a profit at something... how's stimulus coming President Piss-it-away?????

    Fri, 12/09/2011 - 18:35 | 1964638 Freddie
    Freddie's picture

    The Koran says it is okay for muslims to lie to the infidels.

    Fri, 12/09/2011 - 23:28 | 1965340 the grateful un...
    the grateful unemployed's picture

    so did machievelli

    Fri, 12/09/2011 - 21:37 | 1965085 Christophe2
    Christophe2's picture

    I think you are confusing the Talmud with the Koran.

    Fri, 12/09/2011 - 21:59 | 1965146 TheMerryPrankster
    TheMerryPrankster's picture

    re Freddie, you could of stopped at "I think you are confusing."

    Fri, 12/09/2011 - 18:05 | 1964534 WTF2
    WTF2's picture

    Watch what he does not what he says.

     

    Fri, 12/09/2011 - 18:37 | 1964645 denny69
    denny69's picture

    You're about as close to the truth as anyone ever gets. Thanks!.

    Fri, 12/09/2011 - 18:22 | 1964597 Zero Govt
    Zero Govt's picture

    actually all he 'does' is gob  ..he doesn't 'do' anything

    Bumma comes from a long line of Trotsky tossers one and all are lazy slackers expecting others (society) to keep them pampered and living the high life off others backs

    Stop Paying Your Taxes

    It's only "fair" you cut off their devine right to your wallet and they make their own way in life, show us how it's done

    Fri, 12/09/2011 - 17:58 | 1964517 Benign
    Benign's picture

    You're full of shite, Econophile.  The rich are the greatest beneficiaries of federal subsidies, from the home mortgage interest deduction to corporate tax avoidance to the Wall Street bailouts, the take of the rich far outweighs what goes to the poor.

    I don't know what superpac pays you and your reactionary brothers and sisters to post at zerohedge but they clearly are not getting their money's worth.  

    D+

    cheers,

    benign

    Fri, 12/09/2011 - 23:26 | 1965337 Lord Koos
    Lord Koos's picture

    "His admirers perceive themselves as being the "downtrodden", envious of the accomplishments and wealth of those whose abilities they cannot match. "  

    This is a conservative canard that is utter bullshit. There are millions of very intelligent, capable people out there who conciously do not make amassing absurd amounts of money their primary focus in life, and in addition, produce worthwhile ideas, products, and services.  Most people that are extremely wealthy were either uber-focused on making money at the expense of other parts of their lives, or they inherited it.  I'm certainly not walking around jealous of assholes like Larry Ellison, the Walton family, Lloyd Blankfien, etc etc. I do expect that if I pay taxes, I should have functioning, civilzed government that provides mail service, fixes the roads, and public education (AKA equal access to opportunity). If you are going to measure everything with money, then drug and arms dealers are people to admire.

    Sat, 12/10/2011 - 01:16 | 1965489 effinayright
    effinayright's picture

    "There are millions of very intelligent, capable people out there who conciously do not make amassing absurd amounts of money their primary focus in life, and in addition, produce worthwhile ideas, products, and services."

     

    Why yes --- and they are generally Tea Party conservatives.   Others are liberals who are not consumed by class envy .

     

    So much for the "conservative canard".

    Sat, 12/10/2011 - 00:35 | 1965433 CrockettAlmanac.com
    CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

    So your lack of envy for the rich people's money means that you don't believe that they should bear a higher tax burden, right? Or do you somehow manage to remain unenvious at the same time that you demand that they pay more?

    Sat, 12/10/2011 - 03:00 | 1965562 bjennings
    bjennings's picture

    No, just that rich pay their fair share.  They are the greatest beneficiaries of the infrastructures that tax monies create and therefore they should pay the lion's share of the tax.  And we're not talking about the richest 2% owning 90% of the wealth and paying 50% of the tax.  We're talking about if they own 90% of the wealth they should pay 90% of the tax.

    Sat, 12/10/2011 - 10:47 | 1965920 CrockettAlmanac.com
    CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

    All taxation is theft. Why should someone be subjected to a crime just because they are wealthy? Why would anyone suggest that rich people should be  taxed more and more in order to pay for things like wars and TSA agents which are a threat to all of us?

    There is no such thing as a "fair share" when contributions are extracted at the point of a gun. I hope that all those readers who believe that rich people are bad but government theft and murder are good will reconsider their obviously frail moral foundation.

    Fri, 12/09/2011 - 19:22 | 1964758 roygbiv
    roygbiv's picture

    Yup, i agree Benign

     

    He literally lost me with this statement:  "If he has the force of personality he could be another Franklin Roosevelt, the president who did more harm to America than any other leader in our history."

     

    Utter bullshit.  did FDR do some stupid things?  of course.  Do they compare to Bush/Cheny?  Do I really have to answer that?

    Fri, 12/09/2011 - 20:46 | 1964952 James T. Kirk
    James T. Kirk's picture

    FDR normalized the damages of the Federal Reserve Act, using fireside chats to emotionally brainwash the citizens of the US into believing the great depression was being prolonged due to the public's fear of going into debt. "We have nothing to fear but fear itself." What a wicked statement, moreso because it has been immortalized by the VAST majority of Americans as being the product of a great mind, instead of spawned in the wicked imaginations of the NWO, and spewed out by their presidential puppet. FDR confiscated gold as his first act of office. He created the social security system. He played dead and allowed us to be attacked at Pearl Harbor. HE LAID THE WICKED FOUNDTIONS THAT ARE ALLOWING THE CURRENT, FINAL ENDGAME RAPE OF THE WORLD THAT IS NOW TAKING PLACE. Bush and Cheney would have never come to power, without the likes of FDR setting the stage. FDR is the spiritual father of them all.

    Fri, 12/09/2011 - 23:34 | 1965350 roygbiv
    roygbiv's picture

    Let me fix your post for you...

    Bush/Cheney pushed normalized the concept of the Police state in the form of the "Patriot Act".

    Bush used his bully pulpit to emotionally brainwash the citizens of the US into believing that you could go to war without paying for it, that you could spend more and more government money AND cut taxes at the same time.

    "Mission Accomplished".  What a wicked, stupid statement, moreso because we are STILL in Iraq, and will have major forces there for years to come.

    Busch confiscated our basic rights with the Patriot Act and the manifestation of the Fascist Police state.

    He played dumb and enabled us to be attacked on 9/11 "who could imagine terrorists flying planes into buildings" his lacky Condoleeza Rice said.

    HE LAID THE FINANCIAL AND POLITICAL FOUNDTIONS THAT ARE ALLOWING THE CURRENT, FINAL ENDGAME RAPE OF THE WORLD THAT IS NOW TAKING PLACE.

    And finally this:

    "Bush and Cheney would have never come to power, without the likes of FDR setting the stage. FDR is the spiritual father of them all."

     

    C'mon dude, that's just pathetic.  You're not denying the evils of Bush/Cheney, just trying to blame them on a guy who was president 60 years beforehand.  Mmm'k, good luck with that logic.

    Sat, 12/10/2011 - 07:39 | 1965749 James T. Kirk
    James T. Kirk's picture

    You really missed the point of my post. Completely. What are you, a teenager or something? My parents grew up in the depression, and my mother in particular was so brainwashed by FDR, that when I started buying PM's in the 70's, in her estimation it was almost treasonous to buy gold. I agree that in absolute terms, FDR could not hold a candle to Bush/Cheney. That's the way it works. Each generation is more evil than the previous. Tumors start small, and get bigger and more malignant with time. If FDR had been stopped, there would have been no small tumor to grow into a big one. That is all I am trying to say. And by the way, Bush's failure to "imagine" that terrorists would fly planes into buildings does not hold a candle to the fact that all 3 trade centers were pre-wired with high explosives. The planes were just a diversion.

    Sat, 12/10/2011 - 00:30 | 1965421 CrockettAlmanac.com
    CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

    FDR imprisoned over 100,000 Japanese Americans. Kind of puts Bush's own assault on civil liberties in perspective, doesn't it? Sorry if you feel that history is pathetic but you'll just have to get over that if you want to integrate yourself into the real world.

    Fri, 12/09/2011 - 18:52 | 1964682 sumo
    sumo's picture

    Econophile gave away his Wall St cock sucking agenda with the title.

    "A defining moment in history" - WTF?

    Mr Econophile, please. Go back to Republican Shill School. Take the optional advanced course "How to Fake Outrage with Subtlety".

     

     

    Fri, 12/09/2011 - 18:32 | 1964618 Zero Govt
    Zero Govt's picture

    there are 2 types of rich Benign ...productive rich and unproductive (parasitical) rich

    productive rich is what has driven man from shitty little caves to luxury Condos

    unproductive rich are the scum that use the State as a tool/front to rob productive society of its wealth via the tax (thief) system

    the parasites (monopolists) depend on State contracts (military, property, green energy, transport subsidies, insider trading deals etc) and State threats of fines or loss of liberty (see regulation, planning laws etc etc) for their high lifestyle.

    Market rigging by State monoplists rather than competing to be most productive in a free market ...there's a vast difference in the two business practices

    Look at history and see why countries are destroyed. Split the battle not into academic/liberal lines but in a battle between productive people and parasities (Govt et al)

    suddenly you will understand real history and what's really going on when countries are systematically robbed and impoverished by parasites... as is happening now to America, Japan and Europe

    Fri, 12/09/2011 - 20:37 | 1964929 blu
    blu's picture

    The productive rich could change that system. It's a level playing field for them.

    But they haven't done so.

    I wonder why.

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