Prepare to Be Forgiven, Ye Mortgage Sinners

RickAckerman's picture

Although we waxed skeptical here the other day about Warren Buffett’s just-announced $5 billion stake in Bank of America, we allowed for the possibility that the deal will provide a handsome payoff to him no matter what happens to the bank. B of A could implode, after all, a victim of sinking collateral values for its mortgage loans, and of litigation over its securitized-lending business. There is also the wild card of homeowners challenging lenders in court to show clear title to properties that are in line for foreclosure. In fact, this issue alone has the ability to capsize the global financial system, since “clear title” is exactly what ceased to exist when the feather merchants of the banking world leveraged out real estate to-the-max earlier in the decade to create an $800 trillion derivatives edifice – the Mother Lode of Digital Money, as it were. All of that sum must be viewed at the moment as deflationary overhang, by the way – not to mention, a key stumbling point for those who argue that The Great Economic Crisis must eventually precipitate out as hyperinflation.

So, how do you produce even mild inflation, let alone hyperinflation, with the housing market in a full-blown Depression? Most surely not by expanding the capacity of banks to make mortgage loans. That’s been tried to death – first moderately, then aggressively, and finally desperately — with zero success. Despite trillions of dollars worth of mortgage stimulus and supports both implied and real, the residential market looks even grimmer than it did a few years ago. Existing-home sales fell 3.5 percent in July despite the fact that prices were 4.4 percent lower than in July 2010. Now that’s deflation. There’s also the $6.6 trillion loss of home equity that has occurred since the onset of the housing bust five years ago. Will it ever return? We can’t imagine how, although it’s possible that Buffett and our President think they see a way. The two have been pretty tight lately, raising suspicions that they had hatched a rescue plan for housing before the Sage of Omaha sank a pile of dough into B of A preferred stock, a fat six-percent dividend, and warrants exercisable for $7.14 a share. (The stock ended the week at 7.75 after trading as high as $8.80).


Buffett must have gotten something from Obama. Why else would he have announced a $40,000-a-plate fund-raiser for the President before the ink had dried on the B of A deal? Pretty unseemly, really. As ‘C.C.’ noted in the Rick’s Picks forum, the “Robin Hood of the downtrodden” has cozied up to the second wealthiest man in America. So what might they have talked about? The “housing problem” for sure. It supposedly will be one of the President’s key talking points in the jobs speech he’s slated to give when his endless summer actually ends after Labor Day. We expect the speech to mark Obama’s outward transformation from elitist to populist. As such, we can expect to hear about a plan that will purport to save homeowners rather than mortgage lenders, allowing the former to refinance loans at low rates regardless of whether their homes are underwater. The President may even demagogue the bankers by admonishing them to get with the program in a big way. We are about to enter the Era of Mortgage Forgiveness, you see, and it can work only if lenders find it in their obsidian hearts to favor wastrels just this once over well-to-do shareholders and bondholders Banks and rentiers are about to take a hit, since they will be cajoled into trading old mortgage bonds for new ones that carry a lower coupon rate. Politicians will be in the line of fire too, since they might have to make some tough calls that would effectively favor deadbeats and spendthrifts over borrowers who acted responsibly.


Lying to Ourselves?

And make no mistake, that is going to be the most delicate part of any political maneuvering that purports to deal with the mortgage crisis. The New York Times would have you believe otherwise. “Many of today’s troubled borrowers were not reckless,” the Grey Lady editorialized recently. “Rather, they are a collateral damage in a bust that has wiped out equity and hammered jobs, turning what were reasonable debts into unbearable burdens.” We are lying to ourselves if we accept the narrative that the housing boom/bust was caused by factors other than a reckless and massive collusion between borrowers and lenders. We are all to blame, really, although it would appear that, politically speaking, the time has come for the bankers to shoulder their fair share of the housing bust.

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chinawholesaler's picture

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SarasotaLiz's picture

Dear Rick, I've never heard of you until this moment in time. Perhaps you are a famous person. However, you've never heard of me, so I guess it's only fair.

Tell you what. You give me a little space for me to tell my story, which begins with me calling WAMU's Kerry Killinger way, way, way back in 2001, to tell him one of his mortgage guys in Ft. Myers had falsified my income on my re-fi application. I was furious, and I thought he'd want to know. (Ha, little did I know this was part of the WAMU playbook!)

Then I'll tell you how my loan was sold and sold and sold and sold again, finally ending up... back with WAMU.

Then I'll tell the part about how WAMU lost one my payments in 2003, wouldn't find it, and how they eventually did, but not before they filed a foreclosure complaint.

Then I'll tell the part about how WAMU made a big mistake on my payments in 2006, jacked up the amount from $2100 to $3000 with no explanation, wouldn't fix it/explain it for five months while I paid the elevated amount every month, and then suggested I participate in their "forbearance program," for six months while they figured out their mistake.

Perhaps you can explain the backdated Assignments of Mortgage, fabricated by the very best foreclosure mill and their fraudulent affidavit mill companions.

Once you've done that, we'll move on to the Assignments of Mortgage that were supposedly sworn to by an "Assistant Secretary" and an "Assistant Vice President" at Washington Mutual, but these guys turned out to be the "Staff Photographer" at Lender Processing Services and some other guy who also works at LPS - let's see what you have to say about that.

I'm not sure if you're an attorney, but I bet you'd have an opinion about how the Note was lost, but magically reappeared "in open court" during the summary judgment hearing, with endorsements that didn't quite take the Note and Mortgage to WAMU's door.

And what do you think about the fact that the Note and Mortgage wasn't assigned to WAMU until two months after they filed to foreclose? I mean, the foreclosure mill made such a big deal about WAMU being the owner of the Note and Mortgage, what with the lost note count and all, and then they responded to my answer that I couldn't find WAMU on a scintilla of paperwork - oh, they responded very forcefully, like I was the village idiot, when all the while the note and mortgage hadn't even been assigned to WAMU...

And, seriously, I'd like your opinion of the fabricated Assignment, the one filed in bankruptcy court, that purported to be executed five years after one of the banks went belly up, the one filed SEVEN years after the bank went belly up, the one that's endorsed with an obvious forgery, the one that's impossible because it purports to assign the loan from bank A to bank Z, conveniently forgetting banks B-Y.

And then we'll look at the Affidavit in Support of Summary Judgment, signed and sworn to by a notorious robosigner, a gal who has been called a liar and fined in at least two different bankruptcy courts in the country. (Read In re Fagan and In re Wilson.) This is the gal who - most unwisely - co-authored the article in Lender Processing Service's corporate newsletter, The Summit, way back in September 2006, in which she bragged that she executed ONE THOUSAND documents per day.

After we look at the court documents - fraudulent, each and every one of them - we'll look at the correspondence between me and WAMU. We'll see the demands for additional paperwork, where the place to list the paperwork so drop dead necessary to complete my package was left blank.

We'll see the letters that required me to send them documents about my home that specified documents for commercial property. We'll see the documents that were supposedly sent on one date but not postmarked until ten days later, leaving me with two days to respond. We'll see the documents that demanded I fax documents to them and the fax number - gee, too bad - wasn't working.

Then we'll take a look at my phone logs, We'll look at my cell phone bill showing 81-minute phone calls. 64-minute phone calls. 18-minute phone calls. Call after call after call after call...

Like I said, I've never heard of you. You've never heard of me. But this site has my "real" email address and I double dog dare you to get in touch with me and we'll see just exactly how much this situation was my fault. Answer: it wasn't. I trusted my bank. I'm not going to apologize for trusting my bank. I'd bought three homes with them over 17 years. I acted in good faith throughout. I made many attempts to bring my loan back to good standing. I did damn near everything short of suicide and, believe me, I even thought about that. Frankly, I think that was part of their plan.

All you out there in foreclosure land. Don't be dissuaded by people like this guy. He doesn't get it. He doesn't understand that if your bank isn't acting in good faith there's not a thing you can do about it. You’ve got to question EVERYTHING. You've got to look at all the documents. You've got to look at all the dates. You've got to google all the signors to find out who signed.

You've got to fight.

flattrader's picture

Sorry to hear of your troubles.

I like your spirit.  I hope you take 'em down.

Re: this fucktard--

We are lying to ourselves if we accept the narrative that the housing boom/bust was caused by factors other than a reckless and massive collusion between borrowers and lenders. We are all to blame, really, although it would appear that, politically speaking, the time has come for the bankers to shoulder their fair share of the housing bust.

Now I know where Charles Hughes Smith get his bullshit for regurgitation.


Jena's picture

There is another problem with getting the banks to modify mortgages:  Up to now, it has been more lucrative for them to foreclose or even do short sales.  Watch this video (and others done by the same guys):  

It must be worth an awful lot to get the robo-signing problem off their future collective backs to give up this practice entirely if the proposed plan actually goes through.

honestann's picture

Their plan?

Simple.  Hyperinflation.

Presto, chango... in the matter of 1 year (by election time), no home owner is "under water" any more.

Also, the banks can make a "profit"... when measured in "nominal terms" AKA "dollars".  So Warren can lose 80% of his investment in real value, but show a 200% profit on the books.  What a genius... NOT.  What overt corruption... YUP.

The other - even more diabolical - possibility?  Obama nationalizes the huge banks, eliminates all the bogus assets (dumps them on the taxpayer one way or other), then returns the banks to their previous owners in perfect financial shape (no bad assets).  Of course, you know how this happens, right?  Obama pretends he is being tough on the criminal banksters (none of which are charged with crimes, of course)... but they all know right from the beginning he is doing that strictly to play tough and get re-elected.  Then, whether Obama wins the election or not, after the election he gives the now super-solid banks back to the banksters so they can replay all their scams over again from the start.

GCT's picture

Correct me if I am wrong and I am sure some will blast me.  The fed has paid for all the toxic loans that defaulted and those loans are paid in full, and they will continue to pay them off. So who cares.  I used to think not having debt and paying for things in cash meant something.  I happen to still roll this way.  But who gives a shit anymore, we are going to pay for poor choices of others anyway.  The basic problem and it is prevalent everywhere is no one is responsible for their fucked up choices anyway.  My home is paid for, no car loans and no credit debt.

This program does not mean squat anyway, it is just another political move to keep this idiot in office. 

People can already re-finance at a lower rate.  The problem is the fricking banks want your first born now to even consider re-financing.  Why?  They do not even know where your mortgage and the paperwork are.  The mortgages got bundled up and sold to investors.   Herein lies the problem this will be a federal program this time and when you sign on the dotted line this time you will not get out of it like you do a bank.  Defrauding the fed is nasty.  Whats even worse is alot of mortgages are already paid for by the fed to bail out the banks, and they again are going to roll them up and have the underwater homeowners pay for them again!  Most homeowners will still walk out on them as they will not depreciate the home prices as the states will not want to lower the property taxes.  They ought to just start tearing excess housing stock down before HUD wants to use it for section 8!

BlamBlam's picture

What about the folks that were trying to buy a house during all this. saving money only to find out when each time they went to buy a house they needed more money. For 15 years of busting my ass each time the bar got raised higher because of speculation and "Flipping". What are they going to do for me! Where's MY justice. I couldn't buy a house yet they hand some other "Individual" 5 of them. Where is my "Forgiveness" Where's MY break!

honestann's picture

Most definitely NOT in the USSA.

No reason to stay, except laziness or stupidity.

Joseph Jones's picture

From the article: ".. Banks and rentiers are about to take a hit, since they will be cajoled into trading old mortgage bonds for new ones that carry a lower coupon rate. Politicians will be in the line of fire too, since they might have to make some tough calls that would effectively favor deadbeats and spendthrifts over borrowers who acted responsibly..."


I'm sure I'm missing something, but are not bondholders able to benefit from a general improvement in the overall economy?  Are they not better off with a lower rate vs. the "asset" described as a horribly beat up forclosed residence at auction? 

No dog in this fight, just trying to learn and look at all the potentials. 

Obviously, thousands of bankers, CPA's, and fraudulent buyers need to be imprisoned yesterday. 

After we sold our 40 year old CA home in March 07, the bank, Zillow, and the RE industry listed the "selling price" as $583k...the truth is the buyer received $12k cash kickback in escrow, with the bank's blessing and full knowledge. 

So any prospective buyer checking similar "comps" would see the value as $12k higher than the actual number.  This is the very definition of criminal scam from top to bottom.  Amazing.

Same house sold in foreclosure circa late '09 for $304k, now Zillow estimates value about $280k.  Some of the older E side of Petaluma is like a 3rd world country now.  Anyone who thinks this is an accident is incredibly dumb, a liar, or both.  At least homosexuals will soon own the military.  Can't wait to see Generals with nose rings.        

Lord Koos's picture

"We are lying to ourselves if we accept the narrative that the housing boom/bust was caused by factors other than a reckless and massive collusion between borrowers and lenders."


Because people losing their jobs and getting hammered by medical bills have nothing to do with any of the foreclosures?

IQ 145's picture

He got an exceptonally good deal; Including, but not limited to; and big chunk of free money up front. The Warrants were just free money. I think he thinks it's probably TBTF.

Jean's picture

Forget the history and who get something for free ... Why did Warren buy in?

Who is going to answer for or be forgiven for the IRS liabilities associated with the lack of clear titles in the derivative pools?  If they can't foreclose or worse foreclosed without legal basis, and they realized tax benefits without the proper paperwork, then they are at the mercy of the government.

Unfortunatlely for the financial industry, the current Adminstration doesn't need campaign cash - they need votes.  They can get votes in two ways; one, buy them with free houses/new mortgages/ etc., and/or two, create jobs - quickly.  They seem to be dedicated to the idea that government stimulus creates jobs, and are unlikely to get the Congress to approve anymore cash stimulus.  So I think the writing is on the wall, a clean paper offer with a short time trigger sold as stimulus and a clean-up procedures (maybe some show trials).  Remember, even if you have no problems with your mortgage - they might not have the paper and a future sale could be slowed or stalled because of it - so everyone is going to have to jump on board.

This could be run by the Government, but they would have to get Ryan/Cantor/ etc. on board - or this could be  done thru the DoJ (indictments, deal, consent decree) and the banks (et al.) without Congress.  Which way makes Warren money, and how do we draft that train?

txpenguin's picture

The foreclosure epidemic and sinking economy will all be forgotten in due time.   When the Chinese decide to push back against US and NATO resource grabs in the Middle East, Africa and Southwest Asia, the able-bodied will be drafted into the Wehrmacht and the infirm will be clerking in the bomb and bullet making factories. 

Joseph Jones's picture

Yes, I think that's about right, unfortunately.  This is the world in which my neighbors have willingly been scammed into living.  We made this world, 

That is a very scary thought. 

DymanicDoug's picture

Seems to me there was talk 6 months ago ..floated out of DC ..20k  to every exsisting subprime....reference to something biblical..Look this is all criminal fraud...Im just waiting for the IRS to step up to the plate for the claw back on taxes over the last 10 years.....Bankruptsy judges get this, clearly....the F word

cranky-old-geezer's picture



There is no mortgage crisis nor housing crisis.

The only crisis is bank speculation in housing, banks gambling in the housing market.

And that's not a crisis. Just let the stupid banks fail, like any other gambler who loses their shirt.  


CoolBeans's picture

Agree entirely...they have had a license to do as they please - knowing that in the end of whatever it is - they'll either pay a nominal fine, hurt some people - but make a buttload (see that avatar) OR they can whine to the government with hands open because they're deal went bust...and the government pulls them out of their steaming pile (uh, with your money).  Unreal. 

They crafted these crappy securities - they couldn't roll out enough mortgages to feed the beast - so they started writing mortgages for anyone - even lying on paperwork (apps, appraisals, etc.) in complete disregard for underwriting (not to mention rules and regs) some cases, they couldn't do enough - so they started doubling them up (saw the same loan listed twice - two different loan numbers, but all else the same)...SO, long story longer:  LET 'EM FAIL.  They are evil criminals who have laid waste to the US of A.

IQ 145's picture

BAC up 8.3% today; Mark Hulbert says bank rally may indicate bottom is in for the stock market. I agree; but they don't want to let the stupid banks fail. The stupid Banks are very important for the "full faith and credit"; eh? Gotta get out there and manage those perceptions; create that consensus. Probably lots more bullshit coming for years yet.

max2205's picture

You will be disapproved if you make over $100,000 and vote.

They will also ask to make sure you're net worth outside your house is less than 50,000. Being on SNAP will help.

IQ 145's picture

Plus one. good insight. "Buying Votes".

Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

Assuming a 1% interest rate forcing, where would that leave mortgage REITs?  I'm assuming pretty much fucked for new acquisitions, but assuming other language that guarantees the loans are made whole in the event of a default by the government, there would be a pretty strong short term upside.

swmnguy's picture

I don't think this has anything much to do with houses at all.  From where I sit, only little people care about actual houses.  Obama and the Masters of the Universe couldn't care less about a bunch of garlic-eaters losing or squatting in houses.  Still less about the even more garlicky garlic-eaters who build houses.

Every time I hear something like this I think, "oh-oh, bond market must be freezing up."  The bankers made all these ridonkulous loans because they knew before the ink was dry they'd mash 'em up with the rest of the bale of shizzle and sell it off onto the bond market.  As long as home prices went up, that market was insatiable.  Now that there's stress in markets, people holding those flaming bags of doo want to sell them.

OK, sell those mortgage-backed bonds.  At what price?  Market price.  OK, how do we determine that?  Well, since a lot of the individual mortgage transactions were never recorded, or were fraudulently signed, that's gonna be hard.  If price discovery is impossible, a thing is fundamentally worthless in the market.

Mind you, it's not valueless.  It's just a thing you can't sell.  If you steal the Mona Lisa, you can't sell it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have value.  The trick is to discover the value without getting crushed in the process.

So here's another attempt to bail out those holding these bonds.  Any mortgage that gets refied gets a new clean set of papers.  That becomes money good, as no doubt the fine print dictates.  The cries that bondholders are being forced to take a haircut are disingenuous at best.  Valuing a thing at $1 face value, which you can't sell at any price since the true value is undiscoverable, and then getting to sell it at, say, $.70?  Compared to $0, that's a pretty good deal.

The real problem is insolvency throughout the system.  Individuals, households, government and finance.  It's not liquidity.  It's that totaling up all the assets comes to less than all the liability.  So they're going to keep stringing this out, bailing out today what can be bailed out today, and converting as many non-valuable "assets" into something with some value, ready to be bailed out.  If they can do this for long enough, the big money will get all of their fat out of the fire, and what's left, what can't be papered over and made to appear to have positive net value, will be dumped on the public balance sheet.

Nothing new here.

Withdrawn Sanction's picture

If price discovery is impossible, a thing is fundamentally worthless in the market.

Excellent point, and key to the entire mess

Mind you, it's not valueless. It's just a thing you can't sell. If you steal the Mona Lisa, you can't sell it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have value. The trick is to discover the value without getting crushed in the process.


Ahhh, that nettlesome difference between value and price.  In the case of the Mona Lisa there is the redeeming value of aesthetics, which would explain why a thief might steal it even if he could not sell it--i.e., not realize a price for it.  There is no corollary w/a CDO^2 (or cubed, or ...).  Their price is zero because their value is zero (being tied, for example, to a worthless BBB-tranche in the predecessor CDO).   Newsflash for the banks, that stuff aint coming back....and transferring it to the sovereign only serves to bankrupt the bankers' protectors.   In other words, the worthlessness of a lot of housing-related loans and derivatives will either crush the bankers or crush the sovereign.  Checkmate.


Joseph Jones's picture

One of the best posts I've read here.  Makes perfect sense, especially the part about bond holders netting .7 vs. 0. 

janus's picture

like the post

like the avatar

Money 4 Nothing's picture

Link was removed, must have been good!

That's the freedom of press thingy kickin in.

maddogs's picture

How can the homes be "marked to market"/ If they are, no matter what happens in the way of non-disclosure, the Banks will not be in accordance with FASB and they will be broke. Every bank that has these RBMS will be broke.. every CDS will be impinged, every CDO will be affected. To hope is one thing,, to expect is another.

Get back to me in 10-20 years.. maybe the system will have changed,, rebanced U.S. dollar r after a inflated/devalued dollar. The idea that banks will take it in the shorts, is like saying the Fed will put a torch to all the partner Central Banks(BIS) and start over... not going to happen.

Clark Bent's picture

I am of the opinion that there is no large scale move that can solve this problem. I have been defending homeowners in these suits for the last couple of years, and though it may be hard to believe, the banks are actively creating a great many defaults. Dozens of times borrowers report that when they were about to get in trouble, or even just contacted their lender to discuss the wonderful terms related to loan modifications, the lender (servicers generally) tell them they cannot help until the borrower goes into default. Now understand this; lenders are urging, cajoling, seducing; borrowers to quit paying their mortgages. In return, they promise to lower interest rates, decrease principal amounts, and adjust the terms of mortgage loans, if only the borrower will default. The next 18 months involves interminable document transfers, telephone calls, and faxes to get their government approved loan modification. In most cases I see the modification never comes, and there is no appeal. Then is the foreclosure, and no negotiations possible. Nobody on the lender side is authorized. Overwhelmed courts are bending over backwards to foreclose the properties for the servicers, often revealing their own anti-deadbeat prejudices. Can anyone explain why the servicers want all their loans to go to foreclosure? This is not an accidental phenomena I'm convinced. 

Tuna Trader's picture

Clark, I went through this modification process. It failed. Like the many you represent I'm sure, all I was asking for was a lower interest rate. They told me I qualified for the government plan but that I had to go behind a couple months and fill out documents. I started my modified payment (which ironically was higher than my original payment). I never missed a payment but was rejected none the less. After all was said and done I didn't get approved and was three months behind. You ask why the servicers want all their loans to go to foreclosure. Simple. As it stood it was a secured debt to a home/property. The only thing the bank could take from me was my home/property regardless of its value. Now that they have my annual income, monthly expenses, and bank account statements in writing they can use this information to determine if I'm worth pursuing in litigation for damages on top of my home after foreclosure. They want to sew "deadbeats" to recoup the loss they take when they foreclose and figure anyone asking for help would be a potential foreclosure threat anyway. 

Withdrawn Sanction's picture

If what you relate is widespread, then I dont see the advantage either.  Banks going for 18 months w/a non-performing asset (whether they have to mark it as such is irrelevant), servicers w/nothing to service, and then banks being stuck w/REO at the end of it that's worth perhaps 80% or less of loan value.  It makes no sense on the surface.  Maybe it's as simple as banking tends to attract those w/an IQ only a point or 2 above plant life (just like government).   And so it's not "accidental" but genetic.

Westcoastliberal's picture

Good for you, Clark.  I think I have a slam-dunk case here in non-judicial Calif, but here in the Inland Empire the only lawyers defending homeowners are BK attorneys and I don't need to go BK.

Seems no one wants to go after the banksters in state court.

CoolBeans's picture


Thanks for posting George Babcock, Esq. info on ZeroHedge.  I've seen this fellow's letters earlier and I just roared - but missed the one in connection with a personal friend.  I don't who this guy is - but I love his style!  Go get 'em George!!  He seriously is fighting the Beast and its underlings.

Did you catch Chase's settlement w/the Feds for the illegal foreign biz, etc.?  WTF?  If you, me and our ZeroHedge peers decided to form an entity to engage in these same activities, they'd lock us up and throw away the key...unless we were banksters.  Just when I think I can't get pissed off any more than I am...they continually prove me wrong.

chunga's picture

I think he is the best in the business. Combination superb lawyer, extraordinary writer and speaker, and a giant pair of balls. He backs down from no one.

How can one make a 40 page legal brief actually funny?

Moll v. MERS, et al

boiltherich's picture

The MERS mess is a Gordian Knot that is so twisted and legally fraught with precedent in law that it would be quite impossible to review a case by case judgment of all of the 40 or 50 million mortgages they have fingerprints upon, and thus the outcome will have to be a sweeping legal mandate with one of two outcomes fair or not.  One would be the granting of clean title to the land owners.  The other would be to allow the actions of MERS and of the banks to override all settled state and federal law re home and land ownership in their favor which in effect would be rerwitiing law without the input of courts or elected representation even weighing in.  In short either free houses or no private property rights at all. 

flattrader's picture

You may be right in that there are only two choice here:


In short either free houses or no private property rights at all.


If they choose the latter, there will be blood.  At least the former would wound those most responsible.


I've been waiting two years to buy a semi-rural place...I am to the point where I don't want to even look at property on line any more.  If I wait another two years I will get close to what I want at a deep discount and hopefully for cash.

This will not end will at all.

chunga's picture

I'm of the belief that there are more mortgages out there than actual homes. A lot more. Kind of like if everyone who owned silver on paper demanded physical delivery...guess what would happen?

Seasmoke's picture

the SERVICERS want everyone to go into foreclosures because THEY DO NOT OWN THE LOANS..........they make more money by dragging the fraud out as long as possible and tagging on fees, late fees, sending someone to check on the house each month, etc......then when they use up all that money available is when they go for the kill FORECLOSURE...........and when the house is finally sold for LESS than the homeowner would have paid, they take out the fees accumulated and there is nothing left over

maddogs's picture

I'm not sure why people are bothering to complain, it's over..done..will not change (home prices-real value minus inflation) for 10-20 years. The extended "loans" to the International Banks (BIS) paid from the Fed Reserve, on behest of Goldman, JP and a few others to repay for the overinflated RMBS sold that were torn down in values, will prevent the U.S. economy from achieving signifigant growth. All that can solve the inflated $ supply is a deflation of the $U.S. value.

Take a deep breath and realize BAnks like B O of A that have 15x the dirivitives to cash holding, not including true mark to market pricing on assets, will take a lifetime of Bank Insider bonuses(lol) to pay off and to eliminate those dirivitives would require the Banks to default.

Once created in this financial system, right or wrong, those creations never go away. We're stuck with those stinky dirivitives, we're stuck with a system that ill continue to create, stinky dirivitives.. till the whole shebang.. goes pop.

PulauHantu29's picture

More Free Houses coming at taxpayers expense.


BayAreaAlan's picture

Do I up vote you because I agree with your sentiment, or down vote you because I don't like welfare to people that made bad investments?

WSP's picture

Perhaps now is a good time to take out a mortgage?

legal eagle's picture

Last October I requested information from Bank of America regarding my home loan.  They said I was not entitled to see the notes, but that they "remain in full force and effect."  To which, I am saying, "well, we will see about that."  BoA said they sold my loan through MERS to Fannie Mae.  There is no legal assignment of the loan and nothing was recorded.  BoA told me they sold the note so they are not entitled to payment.

I told BoA to stop taking the payments from my bank accounts.  They continued for 5 months and then I took all the funds out of the account.  They would not respond to me when they were stealing my money every month, but they sure are interested now.  I told them in November I would stop making payments if they could not show me they remained entitled to collect the payments after they sold the loan.  They ignored me for six months even with 12 requests for information (which will provide nice documentation once we reach a court).

I will not pay the loan, and I will not pay my BoA credit card until they can show me they were entitled to the money they took from my account.  Truth is, they will never be able to show that.  So fuck em.

Yes, my credit will be destroyed.  I have come to the conclusion that people should not use credit.  We should live within our means, rent until we can buy for cash, and buy cars for cash.  So, I am willing to live with no credit.

When they try to foreclose, BoA can expect a counter-claim for conversion (theft of monies from my account) as well as counterclaims under the Fair Debt Collections Act, as well as several other claims.  I will ultimately seek a court order that they are not entitled to foreclose because they cannot show who owns the notes.

I lost over $250,000 in cash equity because of what the banks did, not because of what I did.  I am no longer willing to shoulder their abuses.

So, I am sure Obama will come up with a plan that helps folks who are making little coin, I can live with that.  I do not expect anyone to force the banks to compensate me for my losses - they hyperinflated the market by giving mortgages to anyone with a pulse and offloading the risk - but if they do not they can have the asset back and I will go on with life.





boiltherich's picture

Pretty similar story here, I had bought a pick up truck in May of 2009 and added it to my Allstate insurance account with 12 weeks to go till renewal so there was a prorated insurance bill due on it.  I went into Allstate to pay the 119 bucks and the agent said if I made the insurance payments through automatic deduction from checking I would get a 10% discount.  I told him that I would sign up for that before renewal time came around but for the moment I would just pay the prorated premium for the truck on my debit.  So I waited till the next week and signed up for the discounted auto pay then went camping for the Memorial Day weekend. 

When I got home it was June 2 and I went to check my (formerly) WaMu checking account because I only get paid once a month and I wanted to make sure all my bills went through smoothly, but I got an error message saying that the online banker was down for the switch over to Chase, check back in a few days.  So a few days later I went to check my account and I was overdrawn with 28 days of month left.  Turns out Allstate had taken out my premium twice right at the end of the month when my account is always low and overdrew it.  And because I THOUGHT I had money the little transactions like 2 bucks at Starbucks or $4 at Safeway each turned into -70 bucks for Chase, I went into the bank which used to be WaMu where for years I never had a problem, and what little things happened over the years were fixed by friendly staff, now working for Chase they barely tolerated my presence.  I kept putting money in but with Chase they report fees and NSF penalties two days after they are accrued so the money just got taken by the bank rather than bringing my balance back to zero. 

By the time I located a helpful banker in another branch who put a stop to it I was out 918 dollars, almost a full house payment.  I told Chase that they were going to fix this or I would never make another payment on my mortgage, or on my Chase MasterCard with $2,500 dollar limit.  By then they had already told me that they could not discuss a mortgage modification till I was 90 days late on the payment wink wink nod nod.  They would not fix the checking theft, so I never made another payment, at least till December when I arranged a workout agreement with them because rumors everywhere had a major new modification plan ready to roll out, it turned out to be HAMP which helped nobody really.  And even then they stole that money and gave it to themselves rather than apply it to my mortgage, then denied we had a workout agreement. 

Fuck the banks and anybody here who defends them.  Fuck the whining bastards that are so proud of their propriety about making their payments even though you are now underwater and will never see daylight again, you are nothing but enablers of the mess by buying into the phony bullshit psycho babble about moral hazard.  95% of the people who bought too late were victims of the greatest scam the world ever saw till the bailouts for those that did it to us came along.  And fuck congress for stealing trillions from us and our future to feed the lazy welfare rich who used financial blackmail to get it. 

Time to tear it all down and start from scratch and the first fucking thing I want to see is a fair living minimum wage and an ABSOfuckingLUTE maximum wage!  Then I want to see an open justice system where there are no lawyers.  None, no law will be written that a fairly well read middle school student can't understand and precisely interpret it.  Accounting standards will not be left in private hands, all accounts will be in simple universal accounting fill in the blank forms.  And government debt would be outlawed even in "times of emergency or war."  Because if you make an exception for war or emergency we will simply always be at war or in emergency. 

banksouttacontrol's picture

Legal Eagle...

Pretty much I did the same thing in 2009. I am a contractor you see. Small scale I had been buy renovating selling homes all my life. In addition, I bid/completed state work. When the music stopped I found I had no chair.

I walked on 300K in debt 1/2 of which was doctor bills for work the was sub-standard. I stopped paying the mortgage on my note of 650K. I was hamped! Plus I did not have to re-affirm the debt! 

The new terms are work-able for me and keeps the hounds at bay. and I have no debt. I have no intenetions of EVER getting another home loan, car loan, credit card..EVER.

I used to employ people and othe contractors. It is hard to tell when the music will stop so i do not dance.


ex VRWC's picture

Let me give you my story.  I bought my house in 1997.  It cost $95,000 then.  I had a 15 year loan at 6.3%.  I paid extra on the loan and I paid off the home 3 years ago, having never refinanced it or took out any more debt on the house.  I never considered moving to a larger home, because my home is enough.  I have been debt free (except the mortgage) for 20 years and am now debt free totally.

I never bought the line that society said when they said I should buy 'the most house I can afford'.  I never bought the line that said I should borrow today for what I want rather than saving for it.  Instead, I bought what I could afford and saved for what I wanted.  I now have plenty, all the toys I could want, just like my neighbors.  I recently walked in to a car dealer and bought a new, built in the USA Ford Focus 2012 for $20,000 cash.  Partly because I wanted and liked the car, and partly to put my money into the real economy of goods and services.

I don't need to worry about suing or countersuing for anything.  I don't need to prove somebody is not entitled to take my money for an agreement I signed up for because I retired the agreement in good time.  I don't need to stiff my bank on a credit card for goods and services I bought and now posess because I think they took me on a mortgage for an inflated house price.  I don't need to do any of these things because I refused to play their game in the first place.  I stayed out of debt and I don't play the rigged stock casino.  

My advice - stay out of the game totally, or get out of it.  Don't try to play it from behind now asserting that it wasn't fair.  Just walk away, default, or whatever is needed to get out of it if you cannot afford to stay in it.  In the end if you detach yuorself the pain of it ending will affect you that much less.  Goodness knows we will all be severely affected by the societal effects of the end of it anyway.