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Prophets Of Doom: 12 Shocking Quotes From Insiders About The Horrific Economic Crisis That Is Almost Here

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Prophets Of Doom: 12 Shocking Quotes From Insiders About The Horrific Economic Crisis That Is Almost Here

Courtesy of Michael Snyder of Economic Collapse

We are getting so close to a financial collapse in Europe that you can almost hear the debt bubbles popping.  All across the western world, governments and major banks are rapidly becoming insolvent.  So far, the powers that be are keeping all of the balls in the air by throwing around lots of bailout money.  But now the political will for more bailouts is drying up and the number of troubled entities seems to grow by the day.  Right now the western world is facing a debt crisis that is absolutely unprecedented in world history.  Europe has had a tremendously difficult time just trying to keep Greece afloat, and several much larger European countries are now on the verge of a major financial crisis.  In addition, there is a growing number of very large financial institutions all over the western world that are also rapidly approaching a day of reckoning. 

The global financial system is a sea or red ink, and when we get to the point where there are hundreds of ships going under how is it going to be possible to bail all of them out?  The quotes that you are about to read show that quite a few top financial and political insiders know that things cannot hold together much longer and that a horrific economic crisis is coming.  We built the global financial system on a foundation of debt, leverage and risk and now this house of cards that we have created is about to come tumbling down.

A lot of people in politics and in the financial world know what is about to happen.  Once in a while they will even be quite candid about it with the media.

As I have written about previously, Europe is on the verge of a financial collapse.  If things go really badly, things could totally fall apart in a few weeks.  But more likely it will be a few more months until the juggling act ends.

Right now, the banking system in Europe is coming apart at the seams.  Because the global financial system is so interconnected today, when major European banks start to fail it is going to have a cascading effect across the United States and Asia as well.

The financial crisis of 2008 plunged us into the deepest recession since the Great Depression.

The next financial crisis could potentially hit the world even harder.

The following are 12 shocking quotes from insiders that are warning about the horrific economic crisis that is almost here....

#1 George Soros: "Financial markets are driving the world towards another Great Depression with incalculable political consequences. The authorities, particularly in Europe, have lost control of the situation."

#2 PIMCO CEO Mohammed El-Erian: "These are all signs of an institutional run on French banks. If it persists, the banks would have no choice but to delever their balance sheets in a very drastic and disorderly fashion. Retail depositors would get edgy and be tempted to follow trading and institutional clients through the exit doors. Europe would thus be thrown into a full-blown banking crisis that aggravates the sovereign debt trap, renders certain another economic recession, and significantly worsens the outlook for the global economy."

#3 Attila Szalay-Berzeviczy, global head of securities services at UniCredit SpA (Italy's largest bank): "The only remaining question is how many days the hopeless rearguard action of European governments and the European Central Bank can keep up Greece’s spirits."

#4 Stefan Homburg, the head of Germany's Institute for Public Finance: "The euro is nearing its ugly end. A collapse of monetary union now appears unavoidable."

#5 EU Parliament Member Nigel Farage: "I think the worst in the financial system is yet to come, a possible cataclysm and if that happens the gold price could go (higher) to a number that we simply cannot, at this moment, even imagine."

#6 Carl Weinberg, the chief economist at High Frequency Economics: "At this point, our base case is that Greece will default within weeks."

#7 Goldman Sachs strategist Alan Brazil: "Solving a debt problem with more debt has not solved the underlying problem. In the US, Treasury debt growth financed the US consumer but has not had enough of an impact on job growth. Can the US continue to depreciate the world’s base currency?"

#8 International Labour Organization director general Juan Somavia recently stated that total unemployment could "increase by some 20m to a total of 40m in G20 countries" by the end of 2012.

#9 Deutsche Bank CEO Josef Ackerman: "It is an open secret that numerous European banks would not survive having to revalue sovereign debt held on the banking book at market levels."

#10 Alastair Newton, a strategist for Nomura Securities in London: "We believe that we are just about to enter a critical period for the eurozone and that the threat of some sort of break-up between now and year-end is greater than it has been at any time since the start of the crisis"

#11 Ann Barnhardt, head of Barnhardt Capital Management, Inc.: "It's over. There is no coming back from this. The only thing that can happen is a total and complete collapse of EVERYTHING we now know, and humanity starts from scratch. And if you think that this collapse is going to play out without one hell of a big hot war, you are sadly, sadly mistaken."

#12 Lakshman Achuthan of ECRI: "When I call a recession...that means that process is starting to feed on itself, which means that you can yell and scream and you can write a big check, but it's not going to stop."

*****

In my opinion, the epicenter of the "next wave" of the financial collapse is going to be in Europe.  But that does not mean that the United States is going to be okay.  The reality is that the United States never recovered from the last recession and there are already a lot of signs that we are getting ready to enter another major recession.  A major financial collapse in Europe would just accelerate our plunge into a new economic crisis.

If you want to read something that will really freak you out, you should check out what Dr. Philippa Malmgren is saying.  Dr. Philippa Malmgren is the President and founder of Principalis Asset Management.  She is also a former member of the Bush economic team. You can find her bio right here.

Malmgren is claiming that Germany is seriously considering bringing back the Deutschmark.  In fact, she claims that Germany is very busy printing new currency up.  In a list of things that we could see happen over the next few months, she included the following....

"The Germans announce they are re-introducing the Deutschmark. They have already ordered the new currency and asked that the printers hurry up."

This is quite a claim for someone to be making. You would think that someone that used to work in the White House would not make such a claim unless it was based on something solid.

If Germany did decide to leave the euro, you would see an implosion of the euro that would be truly historic.

But as I have written about previously, it should not surprise anyone that the end of the euro is being talked about because the euro simply does not work.

The only way that the euro would have had a chance of working is if all of the governments using the euro would have kept debt levels very low.

Unfortunately, the financial systems of the western world are designed to push governments into high levels of debt.

The truth is that the euro was doomed from the very beginning.

Now we are approaching a day of reckoning.  We have been living in the greatest debt bubble in the history of the world, but the bubble is ending.  There are several ways that the powers that be could handle this, but all of them will lead to greater financial instability.

In the end, we will see that the debt-fueled prosperity that the western world has been enjoying for decades was just an illusion.

Debt is a very cruel master.  It will almost always bring more pain and suffering than you anticipated.

It is easy to get into debt, but it can be very difficult to get out of debt.

There is no way that the western world can unwind this debt spiral easily.

The only way that another massive economic crisis can be put off for even a little while would be for the powers that be to "kick the can down the road" a little farther by creating even more debt.

But in the end, you can never solve a debt problem with more debt.

The next several years are going to be an incredibly clear illustration of why debt is bad.

When the dominoes start to fall, we are going to witness a financial avalanche which is going to destroy the finances of millions of people.

You might want to try to get out of the way while you still can. 

 


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Sun, 03/18/2012 - 09:09 | Link to Comment Judge Arrow
Judge Arrow's picture

END GAMES:

High gasoline prices reflect the weakening purchasing power of fiat currencies which have become in the last decade a series of ponzi schemes by the politicos/banksters/wall street psychos. That is clear enough.  That is the reality now crystallizing in front of us. Everyone is now aware of their vulnerability and it has the average person scratching his head as to exactly how the dots connect. They connect at energy. Energy is at the center of all, at the end of the day. Without it, no work gets done and if it is too expensive, then little work can be done. We all see that if not in those terms, at least in the most atavistic way.

During the last oil embargo it became apparent we had become hostage to energy production that had nothing to do with market forces and a lot to do with political/financial schemes, but it was all about the Arabs or other bad actors  and the underlying problem became obscured by the  media.

Now, the extraordinary and failed ponzi schemes, apparent in the raw in Europe, and for anyone to see who is not enthralled by the fool Obama or taking a check from the government, ultimately now require, demand, the cost of these failures to be borne by taxpayers and citizen investors - and this time I think Mr. Average sees this and he has begun to rebel if inchoately for now.

The escalations in cost for real and necessary things has begun in earnest and will lead this time to chaos on an unimaginable scale in part because the journolist media will be unable to obfuscate away the obvious corruption and failure at the center - and without an underlying belief in the bullshit, the center will not hold.

Flight from the thoroughly corrupt financial markets has begun by ma and pa kettle. Jon Corzine's scam was the canary in the mine for most out there.  Awareness exists at all levels of society that the government(s) are run by the incompetent, the liars and the corrupt and that this connects to gasoline prices. 

Look to the local level, the local governments, their regulations and bloat, their increasingly aggressive demands on taxpayers via unions, their impossible to service debt and you see the endgame begin. The governments, in the US and perhaps most of the world, have turned on their citizens and the tyranny, soft at first, now takes hold. In the US, vast and aggressive police forces, equipped for war, inhabit every county and city. Draconian laws are now being passed at an increasing rate at the federal, state and local levels that abnegate all constitutional safeguards for that day when the average citizen understands he lives under a de facto marshal law environment.

The lines are being drawn and it will be chaotic as the social upheaval plays out politically. Seizures of property will be routine; confiscation of wealth by taxing authorities becomes overt; an underground economy undermines and destroys local governments first, leading to chaos and widespread looting as a daily feature somewhere; random shootings go exponential in occurrence as those that want go after those that have, who protect themselves. Interstate shipment of ammunition, guns and the means to produce these is stopped. Or attempted. And at the heart, energy costs continue to soar as the financial ponzi guys manipulate while regional wars break out; transport of goods slows and things disappear from the shelves. Consumers are unable to find increasingly costly basics. The old, the sick, the very young - these die away as medical centers close, even under government seizure. Schools will close, colleges shut down, real job training for real jobs, except for security guards, disappears.

There will not be a day that we do not witness some of this - locally, personally. Desperation and fear will create strange alliances and false solutions and it will take many years of this because the debt will not go away as the ponzi boys tighten their grip on the governments. Defaults will not be permitted, as seen in Greece, and the sheeple will wander confused, broke and set upon by authorities. Local businesses disappear and those that survive are under duress from citizens and governments to hand it over. Giant corporations come and go, merge and use their capital to form new ponzi's. But failure is the normative, ignorance abetted by indignation and arrogance will mean bloodshed is a commonplace. The internet will be limited and schemed by governments and ponzi makers. Information becomes the most expensive commodity after oil.

Slowly things will change for the better as values change first, but not until, and that will be a generation. This is the legacy of the ponzi lies today.

Drinks while they last.

 

 

 

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 12:43 | Link to Comment Conax
Conax's picture

Once again, references to a shooting war coming from some rich mummies from the financial district. I'm sure Germany is on the short list of 'enemies' over in Europe. Failing to pony up another bailout? You bastards!

I hope that if they try to throw another war, the people don't go along. Like the old hippy slogan, what if they gave a war and nobody came?

Banks malinvest people's money and it's lost- fine, they lose. No reason to blow up a hundred years of progress, or kill millions of people. You lost your money. Too bad. Be mo' careful next time.

War! Huh? Good God, yall.

What's it really good for? Absolutely nothin.. say it again.

 

Tue, 10/18/2011 - 19:48 | Link to Comment cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

War has always been the 'last resort' of failing governments....  

get the people to focus on some 'foreign' threat so they won't focus on the damage done by their own leaders,  divert the rage and testosterone of the young and unemployed and hungry.  If you're lucky you can buy some time....

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 17:22 | Link to Comment Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

oh, they will come

when young men are unemployed and angry (and propagandised) they will pick up a gun

soon millitary wages will be one of the few ways a man has left to feed his kids

i just hope the sovereign collapse is such that the govt has no money for the army

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 12:16 | Link to Comment Lester
Lester's picture

Rather simple, really....

Just unwind all derivatives under worldwide moratorium and pay according to actual committed/contractually delivered value of either party.  Promise to pay means nothing.  Which party put up cash, performed services, delivered goods, or executed an assignation of property to fully-fund the derivative.

Could have been done in 2008.  Coulda also begun to recognize the fraud which was perpetrated upon homeowners in main, but all real estate holders by way of the mortgage backed securities scam.  Insiders knew what was going on was widespread since 2002.  It is this fraud-based crime that collapsed the middle-class in America where "investment in your home is the ultimate surety" was promoted into the psyche for two generations.

The politicians are the psycho-sick enablers whose Betrayal of their oath of office and the American People made all this possible, and looked away while those who bribed them did their dirty work.  That none proposed action of moratorium and restoration says all you need know...

Insurance carriers were looted, by pseudo-contracts which were/are worth no more than the paper and ink they cost to bring into creation.  Their  only purpose being to serve as a threat which would validate the looting of the US Treasury and those of other Nations.

Ask yourself how recently did bonds become an insurable asset, and what carrier can insure against market forces that drive down prices only to ruin the investment, perpetrate insurance fraud to drive insurer into ruin and thereby loot more from US Treas under guise of crisis?  The crisis was the perpetration of fraud to loot the Nation and drive it into ruin based on manipulation orchestrated to assure national capitulation and absence of potential restoration.

All this ties in with the earlier "work" of NAFTA, GATT, WTO and paying cash monies to businesses that relocated American jobs overseas.   Smell any Treason behind the Carribean Basin Initiative?  You would if you revisited that shithole idea for a moment...

 

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 11:39 | Link to Comment reader2010
reader2010's picture

They sound like they're begging for perpetual QE.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 11:18 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

They already took the money out of Politics JW.

Congress has not passed a proper budget in years.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 11:15 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

MSNBC's Dylan Ratigan on The Federal Reserve, Media Censorship, Bilderberg @ #occupywallstreet

Uploaded by on Oct 3, 2011

It's Time to GET MONEY OUT of politics. Learn more at http://www.getmoneyout.com/

Help We Are Change produce more videos like this and continue our coverage of #occupywallstreet http://www.wearechange.org/?page_id=9453

http://www.facebook.com/LukeWeAreChange
http://www.twitter.com/LukeRudkowski
http://www.WeAreChange.org

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDj52mNaUVg

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 11:20 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

for those of you that will not take the time to watch this..

I will say that is Dylan is real.. and not a bandaide..

and he keeps pushing his agenda / amndment.. he will be having a car accident, mugging and / or heart attack and most likely all at the same time.

that is how good his idea is for us, the People.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 12:12 | Link to Comment UP4Liberty
UP4Liberty's picture

JW,

Here's a great interview with Martin Armstrong:

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2011/10/2_Marti...

Check out his site:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/

Thanks for your links - cheers!

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 11:07 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Fuck that Brinks truck. You are not looking in the right places.

 

Start with the family and work into the Lawyer's office for the upcoming epic fight over the scraps the dearly departed has seen fit to bequeath in his scrap of paper as he takes his last parting shots from the grave.

 

Every market needs a dumpster out back to handle the rotting goods that have not sold in a timely manner.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 10:51 | Link to Comment Donlast
Donlast's picture

 Zero Hedge is sbolutely first-class in its opinions and assesssments. In contrast many of the comments in the article above are just ludicrous ravings by people unhinged by events. Their safe and secure world has been upended and they can't take it.

Who on earth could ever take Soros seriously. He fancies himself as one of thoe who rule the world.  He KNOWS how the world should be organised.  Top down with the likes of Soros and the Goldamn gang on top and unchallenged. 

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 11:53 | Link to Comment boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Don, you can disagree with Soros, you can hate the guy too, but it is always a mistake to underestimate him, he did not get to be one of the richest men on the planet by being stupid or having no power.  He brought the pound to it's knees in 1992 with almost no help from other market players, though he is also very hard to trust.  Maybe he dispenses truth now because he is feeling too old to play people, or maybe he wants the world to short something he is long in and has inside knowledge that will shock us all when it comes out.  As to his preference for global organization, do you know anybody in the top 0.01% of population that does NOT think that they should be ruling the planet because they know better and are smarter than you and I?  Maybe he is scum, but if so no more than any other rich shitbag that believes the "public" exists to gratify their own immortal dreams of superiority, and I would rather play a game of cards with him than Alan Greenspan or Ben Bernanke, or Paulson, or Buffet, or a BushCo, or a Koch Bros.  or any other person with a billion bucks you can name, 'cept maybe for Oprah and that would only be because I just can't get enough of being told what shitty people we white males are. 

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 10:39 | Link to Comment Tom_333
Tom_333's picture

Generally I agree with th majority of statemenhts and am also waiting for the crash. But it doesn´t materialize. Are the doomers wrong?

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 11:03 | Link to Comment artinlight
artinlight's picture

Does not materialize- wake up - it is here.

IAMSLATTERY
btw

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 10:31 | Link to Comment Lazane
Lazane's picture

crusty old george is bent on moving the world into his panacea of an open society, whatever the hell that is.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 10:55 | Link to Comment SwingForce
SwingForce's picture

I missed the comments from Larry Page, or Tim Cook, or Jeff Bezos.

How the only people who scream their hair's on fire are Financial types? 

If you can't get them to buy, scare them to sell- gotta get that commission!

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 09:48 | Link to Comment tim73
tim73's picture

1. Short gazillion of European stocks. Short eur-usd too.

2. Write and publish a scary article about Europe and zombies. Add few riot photos. Use the usual anti-euro suspects like Nigel Farage and Soros.

3. Remember to add, "It might even affect mighty USA but we are still all good!"

4. Repeat steps 1-3 every week.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 08:39 | Link to Comment Reform1776
Reform1776's picture

This is very alarming news. I need to go see what Kramer says I should do.

 

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 17:30 | Link to Comment boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

I saw him just as the market opened this morning, he was crowing about how people should NOT panic and withdraw money from JP Morgan just because a few dozen hedge funds are, Morgan has never been healthier according to him. 

If there is one thing we all know at ZH, when Cramer says not to panic it is time to PANIC.  When he says JP MOrgan has never been healthier it is time to short JPM equity hugely and for near term settlement. 

Cramer's Mad Money Daily Recap - Thursday, 9/4/08

On Thursday Cramer said he didn't believe the markets would fall below the lows set on July 15 and that a bottom is forming due to lower oil and natural gas prices.

Bullish
Deere & Co (DE) (Lightning Round)
Frontline (FRO) (Lightning Round)
H&R Block (HRB) (featured on Mad Money)
Halliburton (HAL) (Lightning Round)
Healthways (HWAY) (Lightning Round)
Honda Motor (HMC) (Lightning Round)
Nabors Industries (NBR) (Lightning Round)
Nordic American Tanker (NAT) (Lightning Round)
Oilsands Quest (BQI) (Lightning Round)
United Parcel Service (UPS) (Lightning Round)
Wells Fargo (WFC) (CEO interview on Mad Money)

 

Notice that was 9 days before the collapse od Lehman. 

By the way, OnlineTradersForum.com has a whole forum for the daily spewing of Cramer so anyone can go back to any day and link to that day's Cramer proaganda.  http://www.onlinetradersforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=8

So if you ever want to discredit what the biggest bullshit artist in the finance world is saying you have that resource. 

EDIT:  I went and checked the stocks listed on his bullish list for that day the week before Lehman tanked, had you bought Deere you would have only lost about 8 bucks a share, it went from 70, to 61 and change today, but Frontline (FRO) went from about 38.50 to $4.75.  HRB went from 26 to 13, Halliburton went from 45 to 28.68 today, HWAY went from 30 to 8.83, Honda from 35 to 28.74, Nabors (NBR) went from 50 in July 08 to 11.74 today,  NAT went from 40 to 12.29, Oilsands Quest (BQI) went from a peak of 7 in July 08 to just 21 cents toady, UPS was at 70, now at 62 and change, Wells Fargo (WFC) went from just pennies under 45 to 23.18 today, so in all if you had followed his recomendations and god forbid even used a margin account to do it, today you would be eating delectible shit with the chickens, not one stock on that list is actually higher now than it was back then. 

I am not going to do the work but if you go to that forum you will see a list by day of links to all his shows.  I bet most of his bullish recomendations are no better than the random day I picked.  Though I am now curious to know how his bearish picks fared.  And the point of it is that even when they were denying problems in the economy and Wall Street only a week before the bankruptcy of Lehman we all knew and said so that there was a major problem.  I am pretty sure none of you got caught with your pants down did you?

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 08:31 | Link to Comment XitSam
XitSam's picture

#11 Ann Barnhardt http://barnhardt.biz/ says:

In my video in which I burned the Koran, I bookmarked the various pages with strips of raw bacon. ... So why did I bookmark my koran with bacon? Because it was WITTY.

Um, please keep her away from me.


Mon, 10/03/2011 - 12:41 | Link to Comment tooktheredpill
tooktheredpill's picture

it was a decent list until she appeared in it

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 11:13 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

I'm sure if she pissed on a Bible, you'd have breathlessly called it high art

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 12:13 | Link to Comment XitSam
XitSam's picture

Not at all.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 10:20 | Link to Comment Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Yah - I shoulda quit reading right there.  But no - I had to kept going. . .

Be warned.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 08:40 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

...So why did I bookmark my koran with bacon? ...

I don't know. To simultaneously annoy the Jews?

That woman may have lost her mind, but she certainly seems to have a lot of Jesus.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 09:38 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

Ann barnhardt...couldn't shoot a barn door with a shot gun; and she sees the horse bolt now that the barn door is wide open. Can't shut that door?...Who cares Ann. If its about bacon without eggs. Coran without Bible. 

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 08:12 | Link to Comment Lmo Mutton
Lmo Mutton's picture

Chicken Little said it before these gurus.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 08:11 | Link to Comment blindman
blindman's picture

repost ...
usury is the problem as it manifests itself, over time,
as inflation in the private crooked system of debt based fiat money
lent into existence, at interest(here the usury)
through fractional reserve lending,
concomitantly financing debt based public expenditures that
propel political dynasties at the expense of the resulting
debt slave taxpayer bludgeoned into total confusion and helplessness
with a mind turned to mush from media deception and torment.
. so all pricing is done by the edict of smoke and mirrors
accomplished by backroom deals in opaque political "markets".
end the fed and their usury notes. all that money that the
"system" skims to the bankers is the peoples debt, by law,
and as the iterations of lending increase the debt curve goes
parabolic, increasing the demand for more debt at interest, so,
like a rocket it goes , and as the rocket goes into orbit
it leaves the earth beneath it scorched and dead, along with
the onlookers and former terrestrial inhabitants.
usury is actually financial terrorism and is ubiquitous due
to our psychopathic overlords from hell having their
way with the slave chains in our local cave in this
corner of the universe.
not to mention as debt saturation of fiat lending arrives
due to balance sheet or other bank book imbalances,
the credit markets dry up and collateral and assets then
become the property of the banks. how convenient for
the banks and a true burden they will argue, another
cost they will need be bailed out to survive.
it is not a sustainable or desirable system for the earth
bound. but, who would know or care to correct it?
and the correction would be simple and is obvious but
somehow....unthinkable. this is why we deserve our doom.
there is one issue that solves them all and we cannot discuss it.
and the solution eliminates all taxes and rewards work and
innovation, creativity, honesty and health. but the bankers don't get
to make all the decisions that they are not qualified to make.
fatal flaw i guess.
.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 10:03 | Link to Comment artinlight
artinlight's picture

This post on USURY (the root of all that ills on society and the reason your trust fund exaists) is bar none the most relevant, worthy and respectful comment ever on ZH.

For anyone to dispute would only prove how much of a nigger they are to their own ego and the fact they are of no real use to humanity.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 12:40 | Link to Comment blindman
blindman's picture

thanks,
feel free to copy it, rewrite it, rethink it, flesh it out,
condemn it, investigate it ...
but mostly keep it on the front burner and think about it.
there is light outside the cave of shadows! and people and things!

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 08:17 | Link to Comment blindman
blindman's picture

i hope this particular point is clear to everyone.
i think it is the key to many corrections in many
areas of the socio-economic reality.
.
Delusional Economics
http://verbewarp.blogspot.com/2011/08/delusional-economics.html

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 08:07 | Link to Comment blindman
blindman's picture

take the usury out of the money system and then
we have something we can live with.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 10:12 | Link to Comment artinlight
artinlight's picture

It may happen when Max Keiser, Mark Farber, Eric Sprott et all - along with their view points - are viewed in the same light as Bill Orielly.

We are tools to Tyler and these propagandists.

They are perpetuating the myth that money makes money.

It is called theft to make money without something behid it and US fucking niggers deserve the hell comming Our way.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 10:08 | Link to Comment ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Okay, but why would anyone lend anyone else money for "free"? Isn't it natural to get some insurance in the form of interest for the risk of (A) you might not pay me back (B) that my money might not be worth as much in the future due to inflation and (C) that I might have something better to do with my money than lend it to you.

Under your "non-usury" (which I assume you mean "no interest") world, lending and economic activity would severly contract.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 23:35 | Link to Comment blindman
blindman's picture

there is a difference between usury and interest.
not all interest is financial or systemically
destructive. all usury is either systemically destructive
or particularly destructive to an element or unit of
the system in a financial way. it is debt that bleeds
to death, parasitic debt.
it doesn't belong at the root of money creation.
and as has been said you know the tree by its fruit....
there are phases of economic
cycles that can bare some interest extraction because
of growth. but then other down cycles where those
financial demands become parasitic and need be suspended
as the economic phase is depressed or suspended.
in fiat land where money appears from a promise the
same promise should suffice as payment, as long as the
phase of the economy demands, case by case.
why would anyone do productive work when they can make
money charging usury? i turn the question around and ask you.
contraction is good, the problem is that our current economic
model and money system is structured in absolute ignorance
of this universal fact of altering phases? again, demands
of debt based money lent at interest ...etc..
aristotle made the observation differentiating the interest
that nature provides in the form of seeds and grain verses
the translation of the idea to "money".
.
Aristotle on Interest / Usury
Theory of the Household
Book One Chapter Ten
http://666ismoney.com/Aristotle.html
Aristotle understood that money is sterile; it doesn’t beget more money the way cows
beget
more cows. He knew that "Money exists not by nature but by law":
"The most hated sort (of wealth getting) and with the greatest reason, is
usury, which
makes a gain out of money itself and not from the natural object of it. For money was
intended to be used in exchange but not to increase at interest. And this term interest
[the
word tokos, which in Greek also means 'breed' or 'offspring']*, which means the birth of
money from money is applied to the breeding of money because the offspring resembles
the parent. Wherefore of all modes of getting wealth, this is the most unnatural."
(1258b,
POLITICS)
* Shakespeare thus speaks of interest as a 'breed for barren metal', when he
makes
Antonio ask Shylock: When did friendship take / A breed for barren metal of his friend?
And he really disliked usurers:
"...those who ply sordid trades, pimps and all such people, and those who
lend
small sums at high rates. For all these take more than they ought, and from the wrong
sources. What is common to them is evidently a sordid love of gain..." (1122a,
ETHICS)

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 12:38 | Link to Comment bbq on whitehou...
bbq on whitehouse lawn's picture

How does someone profit in a system without usury? Why would someone risk capital? Fair questions, ill give you an example.

Share croping.

I put up my capital (saved labor) to buy the seed for a cash crop. You put up your new labor by planting that crop and harvisting it when it comes in. I get half of the crop you get half of the crop.

Instead of banks doing the lending it would be individuals lending to each other. Why have banks?

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 10:23 | Link to Comment artinlight
artinlight's picture

Spoken like a true slave.

How about we just get rid of usury on money creation then?

Who ever wants contracts with the servitude you need so bad are welcome to enter them.

Just capital punishment must come to those who commit crimes against REAL capital (money that is created off the people's back is REAL Capital).

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 10:48 | Link to Comment ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Who ever wants contracts with the servitude you need so bad are welcome to enter them

I tried, but I don't even know what the above sentence means. Something about entering my servants? (are they cute?) Have your thoughts of a usury-free Marxist utopia caused your command of basic grammar to atrophy?

You didn't answer any of my points, so let me try again. There is never enough capital in the world for everyone who wants it. That is a basic truth. When you have a shortage of anything there has to be a system for allocating it to those who want it. One way to allocate captial is by charging interest - that would be a market-based system. If you make interest illegal then they only way to allocate capital is by cronyism or by political means. The government (your Marxist dictatorship) would pick the winners and losers by allocating the capital to their chosen winners.

How is that system "better" or more moral than charging interest?

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 23:54 | Link to Comment blindman
blindman's picture

the problem with the idea of capital is that it assumes
a force in place, out of nowhere, that exists to enforce
the property rights of the capitalist at the exclusion of
the masses or the "unkempt masses". see ows and jp morgue
"donates" 4.6 million to police department. the fuckers just
bought off the public's law enforcement in n.y. city for
4 million dollars. it is a billion dollar public force
and their heads were turned for 4 mill. swag. that is capitalism
at its finest.
it is not sufficient for capitalists to merely own their
capital and property. they also must own the institutions
of government, regulation and justice to protect their claims.
that is the part they don't like to advertise, but it is true.
so capitalists is an economic term that demands a certain
political turn. imo

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 12:44 | Link to Comment New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

"How is that system "better" or more moral than charging interest?"

You can match up on the "morality" background of this thesis and of the counter-thesis.

- Ned

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 08:01 | Link to Comment Sticks
Sticks's picture

try to get out of the way of a global financial/economic/political collapse? move to Mars, maybe?

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 08:25 | Link to Comment Crumbles
Crumbles's picture

Do the obvious:
Learn. Use your God given brain and talents to Prepare. Like an Eagle Scout. Make friendly contact with all your neighbors. Second and third source everything essential. And without being seen as a Prepper, gather a good stash of consumables. Above all else, make a plan for WTFII? coming down the time stream.
A general theme in entertainment lately is: Something Wicked This Way Comes.
How reality will condense from the future expectation cloud will prove interesting indeed.
Therapeutic medication nearby, awaiting the opening bell. BugOut bag not packed, but the What If? Plan is in writing and the entire family knows what to do.
Maybe better than Mars.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 07:58 | Link to Comment XitSam
XitSam's picture

 

In a list of things that we could see happen over the next few months, she [Dr. Philippa Malmgren] included the following....

"The Germans announce they are re-introducing the Deutschmark. They have already ordered the new currency and asked that the printers hurry up."

 This is quite a claim for someone to be making. You would think that someone that used to work in the White House would not make such a claim unless it was based on something solid.

The idea that someone who worked in the White House could not be mistaken or lying is ludicrous. Unsourced rumor is just that.

That said, who printed Deutschmarks? A private company and not the German equivalent of the US Bureau of Engraving and Printing?  Do they have the lights on at night? Are there unusual number of cars in the parking lot off-hours? Can someone find a janitor that works there and get him drunk? The money would have to be warehoused somewhere. I would enjoy amateur sleuthing like this but I'm on the wrong continent.

 

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 08:19 | Link to Comment oldmanagain
oldmanagain's picture

Of course no one in the Bush Whitehouse would make up anything.  Destroyed the whole article.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 07:31 | Link to Comment Crumbles
Crumbles's picture

Since it may have taken some research and time to compile these quotes, it would certainly be good to INCLUDE THE DATE.
Who, What, Why, WHEN, Where and How Often ...
Otherwise an excellent compendium. Thanx!

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 07:49 | Link to Comment chubbar
Mon, 10/03/2011 - 08:01 | Link to Comment Crumbles
Crumbles's picture

Most excellent -Thank You !

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 08:29 | Link to Comment rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

"You would think that someone that used to work in the White House would not make such a claim unless it was based on something solid." [and for the "Bush team" no less] - Ilene

Is that meant as fact or sarcasm? 

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 07:28 | Link to Comment Old Poor Richard
Old Poor Richard's picture

We're in the land of Liars and Truthtellers, with a twist.  Every time a Liar says something it is based on an ulterior scheme to provoke someone into taking an action that generates profit for the Liar.  Follow the money.

When George Soros says out loud a collapse is coming, he has a bet which is going to pay off based on the hoi polloi's reaction to his declaration.  He doesn't necessarily want a collapse, nor necessarily a stay on such a collapse; he wants profit regardless of the direction of the economy.

 

 

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