Senate Passes Bill Allowing Indefinite Detention of Americans ... Considers Bill Authorizing More Torture

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Wed, 11/30/2011 - 09:53 | 1929555 CH1
CH1's picture

America, as we've thought of it, is OVER.

It's time to ditch the insanity and to build our own systems.

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 01:56 | 1934016 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

p'haps amrka, as we were taught to think of it, never even existed at all.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 07:59 | 1929177 Sathington Willougby
Sathington Willougby's picture


Land of the Fleeced

Home of the Slave


America, America, God took a dump on thee.

All humankind was fucked from behind, wherever bankers breed.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 07:44 | 1929146 connda
connda's picture

So much for Due Process.  But WTF, why worry about Due Process -- it's TIME TO SHOP!!!

Oh! Why the way...can I see your papers please???

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 06:57 | 1929114 ItsMedicationTime
ItsMedicationTime's picture

More evidence the criminally insane are still trying to get away with the biggest crime of the past 2 millenniums and that is the theft of the GLOBAL economy........Why is every nation on Earth in dept..........? Answere""""""""""""Derivitives""""""""""Where is all the interest paid on the global dept going and to who is getting it..........? Answere the Criminally insane............Has McCain lost his freaking mind..........?? I mean really .........I expect this from the spineless Levin unit............ But McCain.....OMG......It just goes to show how powerfull the Criminaly insane have become in the US Government.............Levin quotes the Justices saying the US has the right already do detain Americans.............So why is this MORON pushing more legislation...............? Answere he is a Coward..........plain and simple the more these pussies try to hold onto powwer the less they will have.........See ya'll in Gitmo ...........for commenting on 0H

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 07:18 | 1929131 longonSpam
longonSpam's picture

3 hots & a cot dude.. I'm fine with it, let em waterboard me 9x a day I don't fucking care anymore. Can't be that much worse..

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 06:20 | 1929094 krispkritter
Wed, 11/30/2011 - 06:17 | 1929093 Pondmaster
Pondmaster's picture

What do we expect from a bunch of rogue anti American sociopathic Senators - T-Rex and Carl Levin - Carl has been betraying Michigan interests since he entered office . Another creep to boot out , unless all the Dems are drunk on the Koolaid he offers up daily . I expect this behavior from our politicians - Police State in the open - Our eyes still wide shut . Its a shame and a atrocity on the American People ( sheeple , slaves )    ... but remember .. this law will apply to them, their children , grandchildren , and grandchildrens children . Fools all !!


VOTE THEM ALL OUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

do you have the guts ? Or .. well .. more of the same is OK with me .. now whos on Dancing with the Stars ? Honey , get me another beer .... ad nauseum

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 12:48 | 1930355 Pitchman
Pitchman's picture


Even The Oracle from Omaha pointed it out.  There is a war going on.  This is not just blatant financial Terror being waged.  It accompanies a dismantling of civil liberties that we have gladly surrendered for a supposed protection.  A very small group of people; sociopathic representatives, minions with benefits, and their Psychopathic masters are sealing the deal for an all out Paramilitary Police state.

All Americans should consider the following

"The bane of humanity is we learn nothing from the horrors of past atrocities and history repeats itself. Our/Your passive acceptance of one transgression always makes way for another.  This and the belief that injustice, visited on our neighbor, will not one day come knocking at our door is the banality of evil..." - Inflection Point


USA, USA, USA... 9/11 “patriotism” has mutated into blood lust. Sick, sick world. -  
The Disappearance of Chivalry - George Santayana & Murder By Joystick


When it comes to Financial Terrorism; lack of action by those constitutionally sworn to protect the people is the equivalent of active participation at most and passive complicity at least, both of which are acts of treason.  

To save the republic we love; The Rule Of Law Must Apply To All Americans!  John F. Kennedy understood the potential cost when one group dominates the whole, when he said;

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable."



The Minions and their enforcers will face a future they are incapable of fathoming.

"There are no parasites as vile, insidious and cold as the Bankers.  They are the original Satanist.  Stop the bankers and you stop the wars, you stop the poverty, you stop the inequality.  You stop every evil financed by them and they are considerable.... It's a wonderful irony that those who have spent a lifetime putting others into debt are now going to find themselves very very deeply in debt."  - The Forces of the Last Gasp, on Meat Street.


"Sociopaths are always drawn to positions of power and control, which correlates well with our stunning lack of leadership.  But, this is not a crisis of leadership.  It is a societal and Constitutional crisis.  For it is with our consent; a self serving, Two Party Oligarchy has taken the seat of power... A simple scan of history should motivate the people to action.  Or, like those before us, one day we may find ourselves on a heap of destruction, only then realizing, it was with our consent, a small group of psychopaths put us there."
- Everything Is Fine: Move On - There's Nothing Here For The 99%


Wed, 11/30/2011 - 13:17 | 1930984 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

VOTE?  That is so 1960.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 09:56 | 1929576 CH1
CH1's picture

VOTE THEM ALL OUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wouldn't make any difference. The Party would simply present new candidates for you to choose from.

America is over. The sooner we accept that, the sooner we can stop wasting our lives and do something better.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 06:35 | 1929101 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

i watched the exchange between rand paul and mccain.....i wished rand would have asked ...what if vietnam had indefinite detention?.......

it was obvious watching, that all senators are not created equal....why would rand be so polite?


Wed, 11/30/2011 - 05:50 | 1929085 falak pema
falak pema's picture

well to push the logic of tyranny to its ultimate destination : sites like ZH should be banned from the Net. As they are for TPTB a pain in the neck and a place of heretical thought. Witches of Salem and shades of the Rosenbergs... we over here should all be toast. Roasted on the stake of moral purification. Maybe GW could address that issue too...

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 10:22 | 1929603 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Already happening this from Survivalblog:

They are now blocking SurvivalBlog along with Zero Hedge and I Hate The Media from work where I work. Yes I'm on a government network. I assume that more of the alternative media sites are going to be blocked, shortly. I'll send you updates as they are blocked.  Thanks for your time. - C. in Northern Virginia."

I should add that you can now be fired for expressing political views in government workplaces (implemented after Obama election).

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 04:00 | 1929033 gangland
gangland's picture

what's the problem? now my handle and avatar make sense huh?

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 03:55 | 1929029 cramers_tears
cramers_tears's picture

Nothing really changes and the Patriot Act remains, so I think it's just a campaign tactic for Obomber... he can veto and be a hero to some dumbass that fell for it.

I just want to thank the Senate for clarifying they are traitors and Liberty is lost.  Maybe the sheep will finally stop saying .America is the Land of the Free' 


Wed, 11/30/2011 - 03:34 | 1929013 Wolfman Jack
Wolfman Jack's picture

10 Things We Want
A Proposal for Occupy Wall Street
Submitted by Michael Moore

1. Eradicate the Bush tax cuts for the rich and institute new taxes on the wealthiest Americans and on corporations, including a tax on all trading on Wall Street (where they currently pay 0%).

2. Assess a penalty tax on any corporation that moves American jobs to other countries when that company is already making profits in America. Our jobs are the most important national treasure and they cannot be removed from the country simply because someone wants to make more money.

3. Require that all Americans pay the same Social Security tax on all of their earnings (normally, the middle class pays about 6% of their income to Social Security; someone making $1 million a year pays about 0.6% (or 90% less than the average person). This law would simply make the rich pay what everyone else pays.

4. Reinstate the Glass-Steagall Act, placing serious regulations on how business is conducted by Wall Street and the banks.

5. Investigate the Crash of 2008, and bring to justice those who committed any crimes.

6. Reorder our nation's spending priorities (including the ending of all foreign wars and their cost of over $2 billion a week). This will re-open libraries, reinstate band and art and civics classes in our schools, fix our roads and bridges and infrastructure, wire the entire country for 21st century internet, and support scientific research that improves our lives.

7. Join the rest of the free world and create a single-payer, free and universal health care system that covers all Americans all of the time.

8. Immediately reduce carbon emissions that are destroying the planet and discover ways to live without the oil that will be depleted and gone by the end of this century.

9. Require corporations with more than 10,000 employees to restructure their board of directors so that 50% of its members are elected by the company’s workers. We can never have a real democracy as long as most people have no say in what happens at the place they spend most of their time: their job. (For any U.S. businesspeople freaking out at this idea because you think workers can't run a successful company: Germany has a law like this and it has helped to make Germany the world’s leading manufacturing exporter.)

10. We, the people, must pass three constitutional amendments that will go a long way toward fixing the core problems we now have. These include:

a) A constitutional amendment that fixes our broken electoral system by 1) completely removing campaign contributions from the political process; 2) requiring all elections to be publicly financed; 3) moving election day to the weekend to increase voter turnout; 4) making all Americans registered voters at the moment of their birth; 5) banning computerized voting and requiring that all elections take place on paper ballots.

b) A constitutional amendment declaring that corporations are not people and do not have the constitutional rights of citizens. This amendment should also state that the interests of the general public and society must always come before the interests of corporations.

c) A constitutional amendment that will act as a "second bill of rights" as proposed by President Frankin

Roosevelt: that every American has a human right to employment, to health care, to a free and full education, to breathe clean air, drink clean water and eat safe food, and to be cared for with dignity and respect in their old age.


Let me know what you think.  Occupy Wall Street enjoys the support of millions. It is a movement that cannot be stopped. Become part of it by sharing your thoughts with me or online (at Get involved in (or start!) your own local Occupy movement. Make some noise. You don't have to pitch a tent in lower Manhattan to be an Occupier. You are one just by saying you are. This movement has no singular leader or spokesperson; every participant is a leader in their neighborhood, their school, their place of work. Each of you is a spokesperson to those whom you encounter. There are no dues to pay, no permission to seek in order to create an action.

We are but ten weeks old, yet we have already changed the national conversation. This is our moment, the one we've been hoping for, waiting for. If it's going to happen it has to happen now. Don't sit this one out. This is the real deal. This is it. 

Have a happy Thanksgiving!

Michael Moore

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 08:09 | 1929192 longonSpam
longonSpam's picture

What a fucking pipe dream.. not in being bad theory but the slaves couldn't handle it, not for one second. Americans are incapable of self determination, when the voting turnout even approaches 50% I'll be proved wrong. They have the government they deserve. Example.. Here's a conversation between my sister & me the last time I went to LA a couple months ago:

Me: This shit is getting completely outta hand, I can't keep up with it everything is falling apart so fast.

Her: Uhh yeah, thankfully I got that loan mod on my house but my health insurance went up again, Big Pharma is like a plague, worst problem in the entire country.

Me: Wow, large statement. I'd put it about third but who's to say.. Sometimes I think Fuck It, we should just nationalize the whole damn thing, yank all the profit out and just get it over with already.

Her: (Suddenly frantic) No no no no no!! My friend Rita's (English) father was killed by socialized medicine!! No no no can't do it can't can't can't!!

Ten minutes later after getting over the vapors..

Me: I personally like capitalism for just about everything but I'm getting to the point where I think we're just too stupid and dishonest to do it with something as important as medicine. Do you really think people wouldn't make medicine and become doctors & nurses if they couldn't make a huge profit?

Her: I don't believe in socialism.

Me: You're gonna be sixty in a couple months, when you turn 65 are you gonna collect Social Security & sign up for Medicare?

Her: Damn right, I paid for that.

Me: We all do. You gonna stop when you collect as much as you paid in?

Her: I don't know when that'll be. That's not how it works.

Me: That's part of the point, everyone pools their money together and makes interest on it so you don't have to worry about the small shit when you're 80. That's American socialism.

Her: That's why it's going broke. It doesn't work.

Me: Not really, they steal from it but its still got tons of dough, over $2T.. But whatever, you're gonna use Medicare & tell Blue Shield to fuck off, right?

Her: Fuckin A

Me: So that's cool when you get to 65 but for everyone else they gotta get raked over the coals by outta control for profit Insurance & Big Pharma?

Her: I pay for Medicare.

Me: So take a deduction out of everyone's paychecks half what the insurance is and dump the whole thing. That'd be plenty to cover all of us.

Her: That's socialism.

Me: It'd save a shitload of money.

Her: That's socialism.

Me: And Medicare is?

Her: I paid for that..

This is the mentality of America.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 07:54 | 1929158 Sathington Willougby
Sathington Willougby's picture


"let me know what you think"


This isn't a proposal.  This is a sniveling attempt to start a conflict so Marxist assholes can futher their thieving piece of shit agenda. 

Fuck Off Michael Moore.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 10:21 | 1929759 darkstar7646
darkstar7646's picture

Then I think you better clean your guns for rather immediate use.

DHS might need your help sooner than you think.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 03:53 | 1929027 Dasa Slooofoot
Dasa Slooofoot's picture

7. Join the rest of the free world and create a single-payer, free and universal health care system that covers all Americans all of the time.


The rest of the free world that is set to implode?  LOL!!!!!!


I love how these assholes outline several ways to cut production, and yet still expect the tax dollars from said production.   

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 03:54 | 1929028 Dasa Slooofoot
Dasa Slooofoot's picture

P.s.  John McCain is a real sellout cunt. 

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 08:10 | 1929196 sunnydays
sunnydays's picture

Some are calling him and the others terrorist and having committed treason. 

By the definitions on the site, they did.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 03:18 | 1929005 Thunder_Downunder
Thunder_Downunder's picture

Sing it with me... "America, F*ck yeah! Here to save the motherf*ckin day yeah!"


Special thanks to Team America, for helping me understand America.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 03:02 | 1928979 Ponzi Unit
Ponzi Unit's picture

The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
H. L. Mencken
US editor (1880 - 1956)

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 09:11 | 1929322 my puppy for prez
my puppy for prez's picture

Tavistock Insttitute at its best!

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 02:08 | 1928902 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

I don't know to what extent the Taliban and others are terrorists,  but it now appears that the US government has made them redundant and has taken on the task of being a terrorist to its own people.

These measures tell me that the government is insecure and is expecting worse days ahead.

God Bless America is no longer the catch cry. God Protect Americans might be more in order.

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 01:29 | 1929239 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



If "God Bless (Save / Protect / Shield) America" is the best people can do, America is truly lost.

The Bible clearly records in numerous places how God dealt with Israel according to the behavior of its leaders, more or less ignoring the general population.

When Israel's leaders got bad enough, God removed his protection allowing the nation to be invaded and conquered militarily, much of the population being killed or taken into foreign captivity (slavery), and typical of slave conditions in a foreign land, attractive girls and women were given to politically connected men who kept them as concubines, sold them to other men, or prostituted them out (sometimes having a teenage girl or woman stand on an auction block and strip naked while men bid on her for the night), a few kept within the military to service officers and well-performing soldiers (maybe several soldiers at once, and they weren't gentle with her), everybody else was sent to the fields or salt mines.

Assuming God is the same today, which the Bible declares is the case, Americans can count on a similar fate.

If American men really cared about their wives and daughters, a full-on revolution would already be happening. How attractive girls and women would be treated in FEMA camps more or less parallels what I described above. Yes, men and women would be separated into different areas of the camp, fences and razor wire separating them. Men would have no idea how their wives and daughters are being treated over there in the women's barracks, guarded by horny military men, showering naked while guarded by horny military men who can have any one of those wet naked teenage girls or women they want, maybe your daughter, maybe your wife.

But it seems American men don't care, even watching their wives and daughters being sexually groped at airports by government thugs, shamefully justifying their inaction saying "it's the law, nothing I can do about it".

That right there demonstrates better than anything else how American men have become disgusting gutless wimpy sheep who won't even boycott air travel to preserve the integrity of their wives and daughters.

Nothing you can do about those TSA sexual perverts groping your wife's breasts and your daughter's crotch while you watch?

The hell there isn't.

Why are you and them even in that airport going through that perverted sexual patdown?

Vote with your pocketbook? Starve the beast you say?

But you're still flying? Still buying those tickets? Keeping those TSA perverts employed to keep groping your wife and daughter?

Why are ANY domestic airlines still in business?

Vote with your pocketbook. Stop flying. Bankrupt the airlines. Shut down the entire domestic airline industry.

THEN that perverted sexual patdown shit would STOP.

But you disgusting gutless wimpy men WON'T even do that.

No, there will be NO revolution.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 08:25 | 1929224 e-recep
e-recep's picture

Ron Paul : " In many ways, we follow a schizophrenic type of foreign policy because, one time, they are our best friends, then later on they become our worst enemies. This was true with Saddam Hussein. In the 1980s, he was our friend. We took care of him. We encouraged him and supported his war. Then of course that changed. Even right before 9/11, the Taliban were still receiving money from us, and now they receive money from us indirectly. The Taliban gets money from the Pakistanis, or at least information as has been reported, but they literally get some of our money in the process because, in order for us to move equipment through Afghanistan, they literally end up getting American dollars from doing this.

So here we are going into Pakistan. One of the arguments to go into Pakistan is that we have to go after the Taliban--that they are over there, that they are organizing and that they want to kill the American soldiers in Afghanistan. This means that now they are our archenemies. Yet the Taliban, especially in the 1980s, weren't called the Taliban; they were called the Mujahedeen. It was a precursor, but they were our best friends along with Osama bin Laden. We were allies with them because we supported the principle that it was wrong for the Soviets to be occupying Afghanistan.

Now the tables have turned. Now we are the occupiers. Now the very people who used to help us are shooting and killing us. It has been revealed just recently with this release of information that they actually have some Stinger missiles, and as of the last month or so, three of our helicopters have been shot down.

So where does this all end? One thing about the reports in the newspaper, I think if they changed the definition or the use of one term, I think it would change everybody's attitude, if people came around to believing that the Taliban are people who aren't dedicated toward coming over here to kill us, like some of the al Qaeda are, but the Taliban are only interested in getting rid of the occupiers of their country.

So we call them militant. So we go in, and we raid and shoot and kill and bomb, and then we say, aha, we killed 37 militants today.

What if we reported this always like we did in the eighties."

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 10:33 | 1929808 FEDbuster
Wed, 11/30/2011 - 06:20 | 1929095 Pondmaster
Pondmaster's picture

Pan -



Wed, 11/30/2011 - 04:27 | 1929052 Too Late To Cancel
Too Late To Cancel's picture

Might I suggest:  God Shield Americans in order to preseve the meter while preserving the intent?

...while the crowd takes up the chant: G! S!A!   G!S!A!  G!S!A!

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 01:42 | 1928840 Fozzy Slippers
Fozzy Slippers's picture

It ain't your fucking Government. Hasen't been since 1861.

Get armed.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 01:38 | 1928821 billsbest
billsbest's picture

John Maynard Keynes gave us more than just an immoral economic system......he passed on his life of degeneracy, perversion and pedophilia.... John Maynard Keynes: Bolshevik, Lavender, Pervert, Pedophile


Wed, 11/30/2011 - 02:11 | 1928909 Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture

Bolshevik, pervert, and pedophiles are commonly found amongst Rabbinical Talmudists.  Was Keynes in that group?

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 01:25 | 1928759 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



If this bill becomes law there's no justification for a revolution to wait any longer.

But there is no revolution in any forming up stage, the nation's fascist oligarchs know it, and they have no reason to be concerned about it.

There might be 400 million guns in private hands.  It won't matter if not even 400,000 people will organize and go after the oligarchs. 

Even if they did, they'd be outnumbered 10 to 1 by gun-toting government mercenaries from FBI down to city cops, all federalized now, a 4+ million federal domestic military / mercenary force for all practical purposes.

Sure, lots of people would like to see a revolution.  But nobody will actually do it.

Don't count on America being "saved" and "restored".   Save yourself instead.

I don't see how someone can save themself continuing to live in America.  Leaving is the only practical way I can see.

And it might just be themself.  Their spouse may not go along with it.  Their children may not go along with it.  Their relatives may not go along with it.  They might have to leave everyone behind.

I don't have the means to leave and set up housekeeping in another country.  I'll go down with the ship.  Why I'm saving the last bullet for myself.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 01:26 | 1928796 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

Exactly why i keep asking people to get out and protest even if the movement isn't quite right, or the moment... there is no better time than right now, to demand we return to an honorable / humane society.  I know nothing is perfect, but we have to work with what we have, each other.  Meh. ;)

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 06:49 | 1929110 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

peaceful protest is a futile loud did we the people protest the , tarp, health care, etc...

how did that work for us....nobody but an ineffective group in d.c. may truly care about its citizens..

and when you dont need the citizens taxes to function, why  care for them...

i care about my customers that support me...not the ones that dont

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 05:26 | 1929078 Too Late To Cancel
Too Late To Cancel's picture

Oh, the people will go out into the streets and protest most vigorously.  It will just take much longer than you expect.  Kind of like the inevitable market crash...the time will become ripe, but like some I'm not sure I want to live through the upheaval. The US has already passed the tipping point economically; politically, I expect things to get much worse before there is any hope of renewal.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 00:57 | 1928724 Conax
Conax's picture

I hate to spam the thread, but this legislation smacks of FEAR.

They are such gutless cowards they live in fear of regular, traditional American men. We scare them- with their army of goons, license to kill, armored limos, all the damn money they steal, and yet they are afraid. This is nothing more than a bunch of snivelling pansies and dried up dykes trying to protect themselves from a comeuppance they know they deserve.

They're going to pull something, something really bad.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 02:10 | 1928907 SolanisScumSista
SolanisScumSista's picture

You wouldn't know a normal man if you minced past one you buttondicked closetcase. Stay with what you know, which is fear and staring at jock crotches and leave DYKES, yes those WOMEN you cower away from, out of it. Stupid fuck. Like there isn't enough to fight without a worthless p.o.s. like you denigrating your SUPERIORS.

Crawl beneath bitch.



Wed, 11/30/2011 - 03:03 | 1928978 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

nice pose Valerie.

I'm absolutely sure from your verbiage that you're yet another one of ZH's internet G.I.R.L.s

Guy In Real Life

it's always fun to see how creativee you lads can be, but rare to find anything even remotely believeable - you should have tried a pretty girl pic and a popular point of view - those get the boys crushing hard on your avatars, right baby_B. . .

but yeah, points for creativity.  the Scum Manifesto, wot a hoot.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 02:25 | 1928930 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

you had a long-ass wait to take a shot at someone for being 'anti lesbian' or whatever on this site. Hope it was fun and worth your time. I guess there aren't any 'dried up dykes' in the congress? Yeah, he could have used a better term, like 'lovely ladies', but that's offensive too, to the selectively offended. I guess females might work. Oops, includes the word male. Women? Shucks. Never mind. No more lesbian bashing, please Malcolm. It's making her mad and that's making me nervous. Thanks brotherman. Oops.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 02:27 | 1928935 Conax
Conax's picture

I got it from them, ever heard of Dykes on Bikes?

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 02:22 | 1928927 Conax
Conax's picture

Diesel dykes sure come out with their .44s a blazin! <3 Smmoochie

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 00:53 | 1928705 Sedaeng
Sedaeng's picture

I'm sorry but I am not seeing bill S.1867 showing as [passed] on the website.  The only thing that has been voted on today is the amendment to preclude Americans from being detained that was voted not to be added.  It still has several steps to take before coming law...

I think the title of this posting needs to be changed, misleading.

White House stance can be viewed here:

S1867 current position in the bill making process here:

here is the bill itself in PDF:  (page 362 for below reference)


I would also like to state that I do not see the inclusion of Americans as part of the overall wording of S.1867 as Mike2756 pointed out here:

    (b) Applicability to United States Citizens and Lawful Resident Aliens-
      (1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.
    • (2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.



Wed, 11/30/2011 - 13:10 | 1930954 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture


They are not REQUIRED to detain citizens in military custody, but now they will have the OPTION to detain citizens. 

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:10 | 1932740 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

where ya been livin,... it's a 'camel's nose under the tent' - read between the lines my friend

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 08:07 | 1929186 flattrader
flattrader's picture

>>>The only thing that has been voted on today is the amendment to preclude Americans from being detained that was voted not to be added.<<<

That was the Udall Amendment which failed.

Read here--

>>>Today, the Senate voted 37-61 to reject an important amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) that would have removed harmful provisions authorizing the U.S. military to pick up and imprison without charge or trial civilians, including American citizens, anywhere in the world. The amendment offered by Sen. Mark Udall (D-Colo.), would have replaced those provisions with a requirement for an orderly congressional review of detention power.<<<

The sponsors themselves believe it provides for indefinite detention of Americans without trial.

>>>While some have claimed that this is incorrect, and that American citizens would be exempted from the indefinite detention within U.S. borders authorized by the Act, the Committee chairman who co-sponsored the bill – Carl Levin – stated today in Senate debate that it could apply to American citizens.


Levin cited the Supreme Court case of Hamdi which ruled that American citizens can be treated as enemy combatants:

“The Supreme Court has recently ruled there is no bar to the United States holding one of its own citizens as an enemy combatant,” said Levin. “This is the Supreme Court speaking.“

Under questioning from Rand Paul, co-sponsor John McCain said that Americans suspected of terrorism could be sent to Guantanamo.<<<

The language is not transparent, the sponsors think it will apply to American citizens, we are "fucked" unless this gets derail.

A better title might have been "Udall Amendment Fails Allowing Indefinite Detention of Americans in Senate Version of NDAA."

but, we know GW is not a journalist, he's a blogger.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 10:09 | 1929651 hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

Good post, except for the last line. 

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!