There is a great sense of denial in Europe

Michael Victory's picture

via TVR

From Bill Mitchell:

"Over the last week or so I have been in Europe and talking to all sorts of people. In the streets the decay is clear and I am in a relatively rich part of Europe (Maastricht). Unsold properties are multiplying and the there are lots of shopping space vacant in the main centres. It is very apparent to me but when I ask people about this some express surprise – not having noticed it themselves. I concede that when you come here once a year you note the changes but the reality is fairly stark. If we put this anecdotal evidence together with the way in which the Euro bosses are behaving and the overall quality of the policy debate in Europe at present it is clear to me that there is a great sense of denial in Europe. Nowhere is this more apparent than in
Germany. Their growth model has failed and must change. But it will be very difficult to achieve the sort of national awareness that will render that change possible. The Eurozone was always going to fall apart as a result of its basic design flaws from its inception. But the German strategy – which they consider to be a source of national pride – actually ensured that once the basic design flaws were exposed by the collapse of aggregate demand, things would be much worse than otherwise."

"The only way forward for the world economy is to stimulate aggregate demand. The high savings of Germans (and the Dutch for example) which then rely on the dis-saving of other nations to maintain some semblance of growth is not consistent with the way in which the Euro bosses are handling this crisis."

"There is a great sense of denial here in Europe which I have picked up strongly over the last week. The dots are not being connected. Somehow analysts think that killing off Greece will help Germany maintain its export-led growth strategy."

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jon's picture

"stimulate aggregate demand." shut the fuck up, keynes.

Silverhog's picture

My brother is a successful attorney in a major northeast city. But he is in total La La Land about problems with US Dollar and the coming crisis. Each time I bring it up he gets angry saying I'm reading to much doomsday rhetoric crap. He believes the Feds will set things straight again with new programs. He went to Harvard, I barely finished High School. Thinks I was nuts buying Silver at $17.   Glad I didn't make it to college.

whirlybird rules's picture

People here always love to complain about how they are struggling...  there's a saying, "He's crying because he has only one prosciutto under his arm."  Life in Italy has been GREAT for a lot of people for the last 10 years.  E.g., doubling value of homes, for business owners - from coffee bars to fruit stands to vetenarians- doubling price of their products.  Italians have been busy doing what they know how to do well - enjoying themselves and the Bunga,bunga man has been happy to take them for the biggest ride of their lives!  During the Ferragosto break, people have been seeing their stock market fall apart, their floating interest rates are going up, the tax man is truly theatening to blow their doors down.  We are moving from denial to genuine fear and anger. 

FunkyOldGeezer's picture

Anyone else notice how there appears to be a 'blame Europe' culture being thrown into the mix by Americans, who at the same time are trying to deny they have any real problems? If I didn't know better, I'd swear the powers that be have handed down an edict to bash Europe, but that would make me paranoid, wouldn't it?

If any country is in denial, it's the USA. Europeans are far less Disneyfied and far more stoichal.

TK7936's picture

Why doesnt anybody get this. Money is just a token. You need to create value for money to be valuebale. It is not the fault of a value producing country that non value producers are going broke. Greece and co need to focus on selling things poeple around the world want. Just printing more money to stimulate demand will only advance the money supply and reduce its value. This is exactly why Greece was a poor country untill 20 years ago and effectivly still is one now. It should have used the new buying power of there new currency to invest in sustainable creation instead of just consuming. If you turn Germany into another consumer economy the entire european continent will end up in inflationary induced poverty. Americans have to stop lecturing countries that have no hegemonial currency to behave like it has one. It seems Americans do not understand the branch there sitting on. I suppose the Financial elite likes it that way. The confusion of subsidy with potency, a very old missunderstanding.

Zero Govt's picture

Germany. Their growth model has failed and must change....  Somehow analysts think that killing off Greece will help Germany maintain its export-led growth strategy

I've red quite a bit of fucking ignorant bollocks in my time Mr Bill Mitchell but your moronic statements come close to topping the lot!

Germanys success is based on its productive wealth creating industrial base. It's the ONLY way to real wealth. Since Regan and Thatcher all Govts have had the moronic belief finance and services is the way to wealth, well they would do being in the bankers pockets. 

And of course neither the US or UK has done anything but gone downhill ever since. The only countries on the rise have been manufacturing their way out of the Third World. Shifting other peoples wealth around bankers or brokers offices employs a few on commission but creates absolutely fuck all real wealth.

So what has has brought Germany to the cliff edge once again Mr Bill Mitchell? Well look at its history, or any countries for that matter, and you'll see Germany ruined twice by the same hands. Politicians and bwankers in bed together. Germany is about to be ruined once again by the same hands. German politicians pissing the countries wealth on idealogical idiocy (bailing out first East Germany and then propping up Europe) and German bwankers being their usual fraudulent crooked selves.

I'm guessing you're an academic or public sector Mr Bill Mitchell as your brain is the size of a peanut with no apparent capacity to think, reason or grasp the right end of the stick. A 'D' for Dunce for your assesment of Germanys plight Mr Bill Mitchell

whirlybird rules's picture

Sorry guy... Germany is a great country and Germans are great people, but they have profited enormously toward the demise of many Eurozone countries.  France is part of this gig as well.  I could give you HUNDREDS of examples but I've only a couple of minutes!   Here are a few..  in Italy, there is Leroy Merlin, Auchan, Decathlon..  the French have gobbled up supermarket chains that have been in the hands of Italians for 150 years!  all being incorporated into the Auchan chain.  The local butchers sell German beef and sausage - in areas that are surrounded by cows!!!   The supermarkets are filled with German knockoffs of Italian choclates and cookies!!!  And the Italians buy this stuff because it's cheaper.  It's just like the US consumer hooked on Chinese products.  Rather than helping the Italy, Greece, Spain and Portugal to build their economies and make a stronger union they have raped them.


GoldBricker's picture

Amen brother (or possibly sister)!

Greece consumes more than it produces. That is its problem, period.

Germany produces more than it consumes; even the Chinese are big customers (thus negating the argument that Germany 'needs' the rest of the eurozone to prosper).

hooligan2009's picture

the photo looks like Lisbon in the 1980's to me!

GoldBricker's picture

Indeed. I visit Maastricht regularly; it's rich. Visit the Wikipedia page on the city; it all looks like that.


garcam123's picture

Geeze!  I mean FUCK!

I'm just a common working slug, well was...I'm unemployed now, but I read all of this stuff on ZH and while I don't clearly understand the nomenclature or fully understand the graphs, I sense that there are some very learned people on here who are talking about the end of the world as we know it coming to my hometown REAL SOON!  It frankly, scares the fuck out of me reading this stuff and I don't know wether to shit or go blind!

I'd like a clear understanding of what I might do to plan for this.  I don't have any ivestments anymore.  They disappeared along with millions of other people's back in 2001 in the dot com fiasco.  I figured I was young enough to recover, but I was never able to get back up. 

Now I live in an old RV and am tentatively planning to head west sometime to get out of this stinking hot Florida. I'd like some guidance about what I should do to best prepare myself for what may be about to happen.

I wonder if I should just go to a pawn shop and try and buy as much silver and gold as I can?  I think I'd probably be ripped off if I did because I don't know what to pay for that stuff.  I'm also considering buying rice and beans and other storable foodstuffs in an effort to keep from starving if it gets real bad.  I have it in my little mind that I may be able to get up in the mountains somewhere like in the north west and hunker down.

I just don't know what wo do or where to go.  Please don't tell me to just walk out onto the driveway and shoot myself.

So if there are any of you who would be kind enough to shed some common working slug light on this I would be very appreciative.  If you make it to my camp, I'll always have a bowl of rice and beans for a friendly face!

JedSmith's picture

It sounds like you have flexibility going for you and that's an important (and often rare) trait. Unfortunately there are many people trapped in a place and house that they have too much money into, and can't sell now.  - - - Why not research North Dakota ?  I've only driven through there, never lived there - - but the economy is doing well now. Might be worth checking out. No matter where you go, bring/build useful skills you can share with others. Making friends and being part of a community is a good idea for doing well over the long term.

Yes, if you've taken care of the basics including food, water filter, a means of defending yourself, etc - - - its a good idea to own precious metals. I wouldn't buy them from a pawn shop though. Go online and check out dealers, and call your local area and talk to coin dealers. You'll want bullion coins, which means theyre not collector's items but bought for the metal content. Common gold bullion coins which are popular include U.S. 1 ounce Gold Eagles and South African Krugerrands. Silver bullion coins include U.S. 1 ounce Silver Eagles and also you can buy 'junk silver' which are pre-1965 90% halves, quarters, and dimes.  Call around to see how much the dealers will sell these items over the 'spot' price. (Search for 'spot price' online for gold and silver. There are many websites which give a continuous update of these prices.) Like most things, you get a better price with larger quantities purchased.   Good luck on your new adventure !

Reptil's picture

Don't go west. Go south: the smart money is in South America, and it works for common folks too. Chile, Paraguay, Argentina, etc. You'll be able to make some dollars go further there. New Zealand would also be on my personal list.
As for buying gold, check the online prices, and silver/gold content (if you get dime bags).

hooligan2009's picture

very nice allegorical prose along the lines of yevtuchenko and stolen might up your cred by not hooking up an RV with the net and posting on this site though :)

theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

It is good isn't it. I think he sould try and make it as a writer. Lets face it the depression produced far greater literature than the last 40 yeas has.

honestann's picture

You figured some of it out well enough.  Make your lifestyle as cheap as humanly possible.  Move somewhere the population density is tiny.  And if you can get yourself completely self-sufficient, move as far away from humans as you can (but next to a clean, reliable source of water, and hopefully somewhere you can grow your own food).

In your situation, you might be better served by keeping any assets in non-perishable food, seeds, gardening equipment, and at least one gun plus plenty of ammo (hopefully to get food when necessary, but also for self-defense if and when necessary).  Try to find a place that isn't very hot or cold.  If you end up in cold country, make sure there is abundant firewood nearby that you can gather and burn to keep warm and cook food.

If you gain these skills and get into this situation, you will have a harder life than most others... UNTIL the economy completely crashes and burns... AFTER which you will be in a better situation than 99% of the population.

The key elements are: get independent, get self-sufficient, get away from people, and if you find a few seemingly trustworthy and like-minded souls out in the boonies, form a mutual assistance/defense pact.

Lord Koos's picture

Some this is advice is good, but much of it presumes that people will not form communities that help eachother.  This seems to be a foreign concept to a lot of people who think they will be a lot better off in the sticks.  Check out what happened in rural Argentina after their economic collapse... the towns and cities were much better places to be.

To the original poster, any preparations you can make are better than none at all.  If you are even 10% prepared, you'll be miles ahead of most of the population.

CD's picture

On the topic of the OP (garcam123), take a moment to enjoy some of his previous gems:

garcam123 Mon, 07/25/2011 - 21:30

bunch of pseudo-intellectuals in here.  It's like a big circle jerk and you are all oozin your spew all over each other and wallowin in it.

I've been lurkin this lame prophecy of doom web site for some time and I come away with a smile most times because you have no grasp of real reality.  Bunch of graph readin fags.

Grow some balls you male pussies.  However much I dislike what Obama's given into to try and reach concensus, that's the job of the President to bring the children together so they can play nice.

Your comment spew just indicates you're just a bunch of droolin little boys jealous of his power and athority.

Get a real life slugs, maybe even go get a job somewhere and quit playin with each other's little dicks. 

As to anyone who might seriously be interested in the topic of 'how to prepare for economic disclocation in the near/medium term' this is not a bad starting point to find resources, info, websites, forums:

JedSmith's picture

Maybe its a matter of 'live and learn' ? 

If people can get past the illusion of 'left' vs 'right', - - 'Dem' vs 'Repub' they have a chance personally, and we might just have a chance as a nation. People might quit being diverted by the hoopla over trying to 'throw these bums out' so that they can elect the next 'savior'. The politicians are all owned by the same people - - the ones that rip off all of us and control the game.

If the poster asking the questions is sincere, it only took him 2 months from July to Sept to see that maybe what he'd been told before about the economy was a total crock. I've been warning some family and friends for the last 3 years and they still havent figured it out. Most of them refuse to even look at whats going on, - - much less think about it or take appropriate action .  Denial is common everywhere.

tim73's picture

Americans should keep their mouths shut when it comes to advising others in industrial decisions. How many high paying industrial jobs you guys lost to Asia because the short term thinking, asshole management wanted their big bonuses, no matter what.

Instead of asking workers what we could do better and how to compete with Asia, like you have to ask in the German co-determination model. Your model has to change, not the German model.

honestann's picture

Americans should arrest, try for treason and hang the:

predators DBA government
predators DBA corporations
predators DBA central banks

To be sure, the federal government of the USSA should drop dead, just like the USSR did, which obviously would also serve to shut them up.  The problem with "americans" is... they allow predators to run roughshod over planet earth.

bankruptcylawyer's picture

what the world needs is some serious increase in war and fascism for 10 years. serious. then getting back to business as usuall will feel fantastic. especially because when everyone is poor it's more fun to rebuild together.


game on!

tim73's picture

Oh, Yank spend a week in Europe and now he is an expert on all matters concerning Europe. Wow! That is real fast learning there. 

"Nowhere is this more apparent than in Germany. Their growth model has failed and must change"

What the fuck are you talking about. Maybe you should find out what Mitbestimmung aka co-determination means.Workers and management actually are working together unlike in your shitty drive-by-shooting Anglo business model with CEO overlords.

Then you might figure out why there are still a lot of businesses, owned by families and they are doing fine job of keeping the wheels of Germany turning. Instead of that fucking quartal freak circus you got there.

Seer's picture

I can see that denial was, in fact, a well used word.  Thank you for helping his point.

Without customers it matters little how well workers and management there cooperate.  Don't ya get it?

This isn't a slam against Germans, per se, it's a slam against the growth model.  If you're an export country and growth is dead OUTSIDE of your country it'll become more than apparent, sooner or later...

TK7936's picture

Seer, the point is this CAN NOT be fixed in Germany, it needs to be fixed outside.

AnAnonymous's picture

I can see that denial was, in fact, a well used word. Thank you for helping his point.


US citizens have come to deny the most obvious. Even denial as a process is reaching the negative return thingie.

One can notice that they easily admit the very fact that China losing customers abroad is trouble for China but when it comes to Germany, it has to be different. Inherent to US citizenism racism showing up again...

And they also dismiss the fact that for Chinese, the problem has one different facet: Germans have saturated their domestic demand while Chinese still have to do it.

philipat's picture

You mean like the US exported all its manufacturing jobs to Asia then wonders why the US consumer, which lest we should forget, represents 70% of the US economy, isn't buying anything? US exports have never been a major force because, let's face it, other than corn, iPads and Boeings, there isn't anything that anyone elsewhere would want to buy The US Corporatocracy crony capitalism model is so badly broken that it continues to amaze me how the US pot can call the German kettle (A very well engineered kettle, incidentally) black?

dogbreath's picture

i was there recently and noticed a malaise that is hard to put to words.   empty store fronts yes.   but the big national brand stores are the old new normal.   we and everyone else are now going to figure out how to keep the resources in the community.   workin on my own ideas.


fuck the piigs,  i want cheap olive oil and reggiano



sunnydays's picture

People are in denial all over the world.  Burying their heads in the sand is easier for them then to look at truth.

bugfixx's picture

If you want to stimulate aggregate demand, then let the insolvent banks and governments fail.  Let all the bad debt be defaulted and restructured (or wiped out) to remove the suffocating effects of peak debt on our maxed-out Western civilization.  A debt jubilee would be the best stimulus, especially if it is combined with a return to sound currency and simplified regulation applied to everyone.  This will never happen, because it would mean that the banksters would lose their jobs and power.

Fred Hayek's picture

Amen. You hit the nail on the head.

Spirit Of Truth's picture

Amen +1.  

There's a reason the Lord's Prayer as written in Matthew includes, "forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors." There's also a reason Jewish and Roman authorities had the Lord crucified. Christ's philosophy didn't fit their bills.

SparkySC's picture

Only solution these power-brokers will come up with is War.

It'll breakout overnight for no reason.

When all else fails, start a war.

Humans especially the so called 'elites' are pretty much the idiots of the animal kingdom.




Fred Hayek's picture

We've always been at war with Oceania.

PulauHantu29's picture

Soaring crime rate in EU is incredible! My friend was mugged twice in Italy (Perugia and Rome), once in Geneva and then again in Marsailles by MENA-type people.

I had read over 300,000 North Africans would be flooding into Europe as a result of Sarkozy's invasion of Libya.

Blowback, some call it. For every action there is a reaction.

Lord Koos's picture

The crime rate in the EU will have to "soar" quite a bit to catch up with the USA, particularly violent crime.

Edmon Plume's picture

Now that I have your attention...

Why would any political party want to do anything but downplay crime rates?  You are here - presumably - because you realise things such as printing money is bad, bad, bad; and the CPI is highly compromised by politicians.  What makes you think they don't do that with all other statistics, too?

BigDuke6's picture

The 'action' was the bleeding hearts to let in millions of uneducated muslims into europe.

the reaction will be when europe awakes and they get sick of this..


Azannoth's picture

It makes me sick everytime I see an advert for help to the poor starving children in Africa with the explanation that they are starving because of drought or some natural destaster,

what about the phuking imbecile parents that breed like rats and don't plan to ever care for their own children, what about the fact they they live in the middle of a desert, what about the negro culture of living by the day, they want to tell us that we're all equal just some don't have luck, all BS and more BS

We are not equal and never will be (unless they interbreed us to some common level), the children in Africa are starving because of their parents being black and not having the intelligence or the motivation to properly care for them, yes some white people are just the same but but there it's endemic

CD's picture

Sometimes, the fail is so strong and disturbing, even a relatively live-and-let-live type reader cannot pass a comment by without at least spitting in the general direction of the post.

Perhaps also see:

But perhaps you might be better served by reading a bit of colonial history, up to and including today's system (international 'aid', infrastructure development 'loans'). Or by reading a little bit more carefully the works of Darwin and subsequent evolutionary biologists on the whole bit about the process of selection, the fundamental role of adaptation to the existing environment as the key driver -- and what these guys may or may not have thought about the pros and cons of genetic diversity (or lack thereof).

No, it ain't just the drought and the natural 'desasters' that cause famine in Africa. But your idiocy is also not the sole problem with human society (or more specifically US society) today. Current solutions to dealing with both problems have thus far been very far from satisfactory - leading to a question as to whether those that COULD impact this really do want to change the existing setup.

Edmon Plume's picture

Problem #1:  Asia is a big place, but it would appear the headline itself is multiculti, as the offenders are almost all pakistani.  Shouldn't the headline dare to be precise?

Notwithstanding, are you awake and sick of this?

It's global.  And demand isn't decreasing.

AnAnonymous's picture

The question is more how long the rest of the world will keep putting up with the Western world style and when they are getting too sicking to keep enduring it.

Again, another slice of the usual denial typical to US citizenism.

Manthong's picture

They may come to appreciate why those "cowboy" Americans have a Second Amendment (except in select European style socialist US cities and states).

Dingleberry's picture

This is the entire world's problem in a nutshell. Some cultures save money as part of their genetic code and eschew consumerism. E.g. Germany and Japan. Other nations, like us, are gluttons.  Only on a gold standard can such imbalances be prevented. Fiat money allows this charade to continue perpetually. Until it can't.  And that's where we are now.  Sad....but true.

TK7936's picture

Last time i checked Americans are by far germanic people so there is something wrong with your genetical theory.

AnAnonymous's picture

Some cultures save money as part of their genetic code and eschew consumerism.


Made me laugh. Funny. It shows again the cheap propaganda US citizens are used to producing.

Saving money is a human activity that consumes. Saving money is consumption.

It is not conservation. The Germans have kept consuming. They have conserved nothing. Neither the Japanese by the way.

Hopefully for US citizens, they will push 5 billions under the train of conservation before being hit by it. But that day will be extremelly painful when it comes to them as they love so much to wallow in their US cheap propaganda.

Savyindallas's picture

But if it's in their nature to save and work, and ours to consume and be profligate  -why can't we all just accept it and be happy? I am perfectly happy to party and consume  - it's my nature. A german would have a sense of worthlessness if he lived like that. he would not be happy or fulfuilled. He needs to work while I party. it's in our nature. It is God's will.

CapitalistRock's picture

You are exactly correct. Sound money requires that the pain is taken immediately and only good ideas thrive. Fiat money allows a country to push the pain into the future at the expense of the savers and producers. The sum total of the pain is then felt all at once, plus the added pain of all the misallocations of capital created by the central bank controlling the supply of the fiat currency.

Sell your fiat dollars for gold. Now. By saving with fiat dollars you are enabling the scam and allowing it to continue.

AmCockerSpaniel's picture

We save PM's. So far no pain, so far, so far.

moneymutt's picture

Yeah, that housing bubble they had and the subsequent deflation was all about them saving too much