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These People Are All CRAZY ... (Aren't They?)
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About the molten steel months later...
A minor point, but one worth clearing up.
The 'molten steel months later' point intrigued me too, for a long time. Till I realised what was going on there. And feeling stupid, since I _should_ have spotted this immediately.
Question: How could there have been so much heat present, after so long? Doesn't this require an enormous amount of heat initially?
At first I was prepared to attribute this to the 'micro-nukes used to cut the foundations' theory. But the problem is, even a micro-nuke doesn't make that much heat.
Turns out the answer is simple. But once again, it's due to an effect not many people are familiar with in everyday life, hence they don't understand it.
Thing is, steel (iron) will burn exothermically in air, if it's heated enough initially. There are multiple examples of this. One is an oxyacetelene cutting torch. I use these - which is why I feel stupid for not getting this immediately. When using an oxy cutting torch, there's a small ring of 'heating' flames, that run all the time. These are directed at the steel, and held there till the steel is at least dull red heat. Then a lever on the handle is pressed, that directs a jet of oxygen through a larger central hole in the cutting tip. This hits the hot steel, which catches fire. The burning steel produces intense heat, and it's this heat combined with the 'push' of the oxygen jet (not the small cutting torch flames) which gouges a deep, narrow cut into the steel.
Another example, comes from the holds of ships carrying large amounts of steel beams or sheets. Such ships have to be extremely careful to cool their holds, keeping watch on the temperature of the pile of steel. Because even at room temperature, ordinary 'rusting' of steel produces some heat. Put a lot of steel surface together in one place, with some insulation around it, and it will self-heat itself from rusting. Resulting in a thermal runaway reaction so long as more air is available. Eventually such a runaway self-heating pile of steel can get hot enough to really catch fire, and melt itself.
So, in the WTC rubble pile there was a great deal of steel compacted together, mixed with combustibles and already burning debris (and clearly some molten steel from numerous thermite demolition charges), then buried deep under layers more rubble for thermal bulk insulation. With a bit of convective airflow through the rubble, that's not so different to the interior of a blast furnace.
Conclusion: There was molten steel deep in the WTC ruins months after the collapse, because there was a continuous process of steel burning and maintaining the heat required to melt itself. Without intervention, it might have continued to maintain pools of molten steel for years afterwards.
Note that this doesn't exclude the possibility there may have been massive explosives detonated around the foundations. Conventional or nuclear. There certainly are some pictures of very suspicious large dust clouds appearing around the base of the buildings _before_ the collapses started. Plus the eyewitness accounts of massive explosions from workers in the building basements, that occured shortly before the plane impacts.
Nice story...fatal flaw...where did all that NEEDED oxygen come from? Your cutting torch NEEDS that oxygen to keep the reaction going...no O2, no reaction. There isn't much oxygen in a basement of a collapsed building either. Unless there were tanks of oxygen feeding the reaction...HOW did it happen?
You didn't read what I wrote. *OxyCutting* steel requires pure oxygen, because it needs the massive, concentrated heat produced by the pure oxygen-iron reaction to achieve deep cuts into cold steel. But large masses of compacted steel surrounded by sufficient thermal insulation will heat up just fine with ordinary air. Slowly, but with no upper limit on the temperature - it will just keep on getting hotter in thermal runaway, oxidation rate increasing with temperature, till steel is flowing as a liquid and forms pools. Thus reducing its available air-exposed surface area and slowing down the reaction.
Also, try the demo with steel wool I mentioned above. Works fine, even with oxygen *reduced* human breath.
Have any other instances of this (in other building collapses) been reported/documented?
That something is "possible" does not make it translate to "probable."
There haven't *been* any instances of large steel framed buildings collapsing due to fire before 911, have there? That's the whole point.
Also, forget possible vs probable. Steel burns exothermically. This is basic chemistry, regardless of few people knowing it since they've never seen steel on fire.
If you want a practical demo, get a big wad of plain steel wool (available in hardware stores), light a corner with a cigarette lighter, then blow onto the lit part. Spectacular! (Do outside, it drops splatters of molten steel slag, and is immensely hot. Best to hold it with tongs, not fingers.)
Then try to pretend steel doesn't burn.
This just goes to the stupidity of people. Choosing Ed Asner as your point person on this issue is just as ridiculous to choose Andy Griffith so sell Obamacare to seniors. Total flop and an embarrassement to once admried and beloved Amreicans.
EVERYONE sells out for the right price!
I'll keep an open mind on WT7 and watch it in the morning GW.
While you got that "open mind" you might like to let some of that ameriKlan bull shit in there ooze out.
That'll make some room for a few fresh ideas.
My fierce Indian warrior friend, who runs off to join another tribe (Canada), you would rather engage in random sniping at your former tribe members from across a border secured by others...you now presume to speak to me of open minds?...your version of truth, honor & integrity will never be the same as mine.
there are no borders between men of honour. Lonely are the brave, and strong remain their convictions, even unto death.
BTW : that was an excellent film with Kirk D! And Gena Rowlands!
I gave my thoughts of this presentation down at the bottom of this thread.
And I don't regard DP as an honorable person...but I'm sure he feels the same about me so I leave it to others to make their own judgements on our personal animosity toward each other.
Aw.... Come on nmewn... don't be a cry baby... It's nothing personal.
It' Fight Club.
I'm just using you as a sparring partner as that Smokey(Jim)Quinn moron just reverates to his ususal obscene beastility responses when confronted with scientific evidence.
By your post below, I see you are making slight progress in de-programming yourself.
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By the by... My father was ameriKlan, and like you pumped full of offical BS after his long service as a marine in the Pacific in WWII. He died a very disillusioned man, who like Smedley Butler, came to political reality late in life.
My mother was Acadian, descendant of the 17th-century French colonists who settled in Acadia, located in the Canadian Maritime provinces . She was the sane anchor of the family.
After over 41 years of being out of that Nazi Nightmare you try to defend by being a "accessory after the fact", you are correct!
..."your version of truth, honor & integrity will never be the same as mine."
Listen closely to this most excellent Rant by a true Patriot.
http://www.collapsenet.com/free-resources/collapsenet-public-access/item/2496-say-my-fucking-name
There may be some hope for you and yours yet.
Thats not the right approach. Just use facts and logic. Nmewn is a good guy.
He needs a good whack with a fir 2x4 up side his head to keep his attention on 9/11 issues.
Like with Smokey(Jim)Quinn, I'm done playing nice with 9/11Morons.
They are accessories after the fact* and deserve nothing... no respect.
This is Fight Club and not Special Class for hockey-helmeted 9/11Retards off the short bus.
..............................................................................
*A person who learns of the crime after it is committed and helps the criminals to conceal it, or aids the criminals in escaping, or simply fails to report the crime, is known as an "accessory after the fact"
Here we go again. I'll be waiting.
Was it two buildings or three buildings?
Well, George. I have a question for you. Would you be in favor of passing laws such as in Canada and many European countries? In these countries those that question the so-called "jewish holocaust" (as if Dresden, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki are not holocausts), those who scientifically protest the religion of "holocaustianity" (the west's highest icon), those who scientifically put forth evidence that the 3rd Reich did not murder 6M jews in so-called "ovens" are rotting in prison as I type.
The word slueths even invented a phrase called "holocaust deniers" to further demonize those who lack their faith. In other words, the word "deniers" starts with the premise that it is fact already, that no human being as any right to deny faith in holocaustianity.
Would you be in favor of the taxpayers putting Ed Asner and the architects in prison for their lack of faith? For questioning the governing elite and their premisis.
If they are so obviously crazy, why must you waste time mentioning the obvious?
The only reason followers of holocaustianity would possibly have to imprison those who contradict them is if the contradictors really had hard evidence supporting their case, which they certainly do. Starting with the fact that supposed eye witnesses were easily proven to have made up lies about their alleged experiences.
The title is sarcasm. GW has been actively involved in bringing the 9-11 lies to the surface for years.
But if you really want to know someone who's "crazy," talk to me: I'm crazy enough to entertain the possibility that what you're really doing is attempting to discredit skeptics of the official 9-11 story by comparing their (our) attempt to bring the truth to the surface to the attempts of "holocaust deniers" to do the same about the holocaust, thus tacitly creating some (non-existant) connection between questioning 9-11 and being a "holocaust denier."
A pretty sophisticated ploy, mind you, as if I'm right, you've suceeded in discrediting both 9-11 questioners and "holocaust deniers" by comparing them to each other: ie, "if you deny anything about the official story of the holocaust, you're as bad as those unamerican 9-11 truthers," and "if you question anything about the official story of 9-11, you're as bad as a holocaust denier!" That would make you an "official story believer," since we all apparently love derisive monikers that end in "-er."
A sophisticated operation, indeed, but one I'm apparently too happily crazy to overlook. On the other hand, you could just be totally unaware of GW's use of sarcasm (and of a significant part of his body of work), in which I am being overly suspicious (which is not unusual for me, I admit). But either way, no one needs to know anything about German history to figure out 9-11.
Auschwitz museum had to change their figure from 4M killed to 1.1M killed. Quite a reduction.
After the collapse of the Communist government in 1989, the plaque at Auschwitz State Museum was removed and the official death toll given as 1.1 million.
Yet the official number of Jews killed remains 6 million. Another example of Jewish math.
A complete nonsequitur. No one is advocating putting people like this in prison, but they should be mocked, and mocked heartily.
Maybe I'm missing the point of your post. But it seems clear to me, you are taking the title way to serious (and are unfamiliar with GW's work)
Seriously, though, the people who believe this conspiracy are amongst the dumbest you will ever see (no surprise to see shit-for-brains Asner fronting this one). The photographic evidence show several stories of the building with fires burning out of control, and you want people to believe that preset explosive charges weren't set off by any of these fires during the afternoon or 9/11, but then all went off at the same time at 5:30 that day? What kinds of explosives are we talking about that are immune to fire?
Thermite is typically very difficult to ignite, requiring a temperature of over 3,000 degrees F just to get
the reaction started. It will not ignite using ordinary safety fuse, or from contact with open flame.
http://www.unitednuclear.com/thermiteinfo.pdf
Please see Transformer's post.
First of all, what conspiracy are you talking about? The one that says 19 arabs with box cutters took down the US?
Second, you obviously know nothing about explosives. Most modern explosives, thermite included, cannot be set off by fire, or very difficult to set off with fire. Plastique and various other types of cutting charges require a blasting cap to set off. Your thinking of black powder and old dynamite, 100 year old technology.
So, you got this thermite charge sitting in a fire for 5 hours, and you can still set it off? You are fucking idiot. I don't even know why I bother engaging the insane conspiracy theorists. As for the 19 taking the planes, I suppose the phone calls from the passengers telling people what was happening on the planes were faked as well, and that those planes we saw hitting WTC I and II were fake? Seriously, if one were going create this elaborate hoax, wouldn't it simply be easier to park three trucks with explosives in the basements, and used this as cover to set off charges to take the buildings down? I mean, why go to all the trouble of hijacking planes and crashing them into buildings? And, note, not a single legitimate witness has come forward to acknowledge his part in this conspiracy- not a single one.
@GW
Keep it up. Youtube is filled with clips of broadcasts from that morning. Some that have never been replayed on TV, however, they live on forever on the internet. The lies become harder and harder to hide when you can instantly recall an event (as opposed to relying on memory). Another reason why they will eventually pull the plug on the web.
No joke.
I was with my family at Kennedy Space center not to long ago.
Our first impression:
"These rockets are pretty small".
They're really small.
Luckely we were save.
I did get a pat down.
Answer on; why?:
-I was on .gov property.
...that's how the story is, juno.
Ed Asner is behind the whole fucking thing, and it was a stroke of brilliance to be the narrator of this video- no one will ever believe he could be that ballsy!
There is not a person alive with any real cognitive abilities ( 120 IQ and above) who believe the official 911 story. You don't have to be an engineer to appreciate the absurdity of the official NIST conclusions .
On 911 after watching the first building fall on TV, I turned to my wife and said, "buildings don't' fall that way". A few minutes later after the second building fell in the exact same manner.. it was painfully obvious we were experiencing theater.
A few hours later when the CIA concluded the fastest investigation in history and plastered the pictures of 19 Arabs all over TV.. Well things just entered the realm of absurdity. The biggest crime in American history and the whole case solved within a few hours. Amazing!
Go smoke another bong. Seriously. I don't believe the given 9/11 story but the towers were hit by planes and fell and were flown by terrorists. I watched it on TV and I have watched controlled demolitions live. The towers were not prewired and you couldn't produce more that a few pounds of "super thermite" which doesn't exist.
Real tests were run by real scientists with no reason to lie. There are real conspiracies and those that are created by those that want to believe a conspiracy is real so bad that they will see evidence where it doesn't exist. Every single BS point made by the moronic loose change video was debunked. I could debunk every single one with the enginerin knowledge I posess.
A building built differently than any other buildng won't fall in the same way as a empty warehouse in Detroit. You would also never be able to get a controlled demolotion corporation to take the job of bringin down a building the size of the World Trade Center. You would dismantle a building that size from the ground up.
Do I believe the US government knew the attack was going to take place and knew who the hijackers were, yes. Did a US airforce pilot who took off from Dayton shoot down the flight over PA, yes. That fits history and is plausible.
Did the US government prewire the buildings for demolition and land four planes in Cleveland, murder all the passengers and then use remote control systems to fly the planes into the towers, not a chance in hell. If you believe that you are some kind of moron that can't be helped.
Loose change isn't a good reference for facts, but there are many good references which you can't dispute with facts. Let the debunking begin. Here is one about thermite which they tried to debunk on National Geographic and Mythbusters. You would have to use a shitload to bring down the towers according to them and it wouldn't be able to cut steel beams ect.. WRONG.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d5iIoCiI8g
"Yes Sirree...
I's a watchd it all on teevee.
Why I could debunk every single one with the enginerin knowledge I posess.
If you's don't believes that you's is some kind of moron that can't be helped.
Why you's just woulda dismantle a building that size from the ground up."
..............................................................................
a damn retard ...
demolishing buildings ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb-1O2sMWok&feature=related
So, you can debunk every single argument with the engineering knowledge you posess. And with this engineering knowledge you would dismantle a building that size from the groun up? So, you would cut all the supports and remove all the steel and concrete, then what would hold up the other 110 floors while you were dismantling the ground floor? What kind of engineer knowledge are you talking about?
He'd use the latest in levitation engineering, don't cha know. That whole gravity thing is just a conspiracy theory, anyway. Dismantling buildings from the ground up works all the time!
I don't think it's about IQ. A little bit of "faith" can make the nonsensical seem quite rational.
Not a truther, but even Limbaugh remarked: "They knew all about these guys w/in hours? Then they knew about them beforehand."
what about the cruise missile that hit the pentagon, and destroyed the paperwork regarding the missing $ 2.3 trillion.I guess it killed some accountants who knew too much too. the rest just shut up. when commercial airliners go down, there are people parts, and luggage and clothing, and electronic devices, in the wreckage. not at the pentagon. no airliner engines either.
Clearly not an airliner.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsWZHKIg3Cs
When I first saw it happen I thought it looked like those videos you see of controlled demolitions. Are you going to believe debunkers or your very own intuition and eyes? There are plenty of scientific studies with metalurgists piecing together the clues and eyewitness accounts of people hearing explosions at ground level before each building came down. There are videos on youtube showing faint explositions along the edges of WTC1,2 as they came down. Do your own research. If you dare.
building seven is dead give away that what we were told about 911 is all bullshit. the problem is, even when people see the proof with their own eyes, they consciously or subconsciously will not allow themselves to believe that building 7 was brought down, because to do so, literally calls into doubt their entire belief system about the U.S. government, our history, our society and who controls it. for if the government (or parts of it) is willing to carry out 911, everything people think they know about our world is now suspect (and it should be, because its more lies than truth). so they choose to be ignorant.
It really is that simple. It doesn't matter what theory you believe to be most credible...who knew, for what purpose, buildings 1&2, the Pentagon, etc. All that matters is that building 7 is an outright lie. From there, the world just looks different, for those willing to think.
Well said. And nothing is worse than realizing you've been "tricked" your whole life.
Those of us who have had our lives ruined by a sociopath don't have much trouble believing is so-called conspiracies.
SOCIOPATHS RUIN LIVES
Thats the big question... WHY?
Control. Control of the ME oil, control of the water in the ME (Tigris and Euphrates rivers). Minerals and opium in Afghanistan as well as access for an oil pipeline. Contracts for the multinational companies. By securing that oil they have tremendous control over countries that need it. Surrounding countries that don't want to cooperate with the U.S. are now threatened by our presence. The U.S. has now replaced communism with terrorism as the new enemy which they will use as a reason to carry out any agenda. An enemy that can't be defeated so as to warrant continued military and intelligence buildup. All these things have enabled the status quo to continue and guarantee our dominance in the future. Securing the status of the dollar to remain as the reserve currency. Without oil any major economy is doomed.
Very succinctly and accurately put!
why? Because the Zionists could then get away with anything in their own country Israel in the name of fighting
that evil enemy Al Qaeda. All that inhumane stuff they're doing in the Middle East would have looked so much worse
without having manufactured an evil enemy.