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Trustee to Seize and Liquidate Even the Stored Customer Gold and Silver Bullion From MF Global
Trustee to Seize and Liquidate Even the Stored Customer Gold and Silver Bullion From MF Global
Courtesy of Jesse's Cafe Americain
The bottom line is that apparently some warehouses and bullion dealers are not a safe place to store your gold and silver, even if you hold a specific warehouse receipt. In an oligarchy, private ownership is merely a concept, subject to interpretation and confiscation.
Although the details and the individual perpetrators are yet to be disclosed, what is now painfully clear is that the CFTC and CME regulated futures system is defaulting on its obligations. This did not even happen in the big failures like Lehman and Bear Sterns in which the customer accounts were kept whole and transferred before the liquidation process.
Obviously holding unallocated gold and silver in a fractional reserve scheme is subject to much more counterparty risk than many might have previously admitted. If a major bullion bank were to declare bankruptcy or a major exchange a default, how would it affect you? Do you think your property claims would be protected based on what you have seen this year?
You always have counter-party risk if you hold gold and silver through another party, even if they are a Primary Dealer of the Federal Reserve. As Ben said, the Fed offers no seal of approval.
If a Bankruptcy Trustee can pool your bullion into the rest of the paper assets and then liquidate it at prices that are being front run by the Street, you will have to accept whatever paper settlement that they give you.
The customer money and bullion assets are not lost, or rehypothecated or anything else. This is a pseudo-legal fig leaf, a convenient rationalization.
The customer assets were stolen, and given to at least one major financial institution by MF Global to satisfy an 11th hour margin call in the week of their bankruptcy, even as MF Global was paying bonuses to its London employees.
And in an absolutely classic Wall Street move, they are still charging the customers storage fees on the bullion which they have misappropriated from them. lol.
And now that powerful financial institution does not want to give the customer money and metal back. And they are apparently so powerful that the Trustee and the Court are reluctant to try and force its return to the customers, which is customary in this type of preferential distribution of assets prior to a bankruptcy, much less assets that were stolen. And keep in mind that in those last days the firm sent checks instead of wire transfers to customers so they could bounce them, and in a few cases even reversed completed wire transfers!
And so in the great Wall Street tradition they are trying to force the customers and the public to take the loss. The regulators and the exchange are aghast, and are trying to imagine how to resolve and spin this to preserve investor confidence and prevent a run on the system.
'Let them eat warehouse receipts.'
For many this would have been unthinkable only a few months ago. They had been cautioned and warned repeatedly, but chose to trust the financial system. And now they are suffering loss and anxiety, frozen assets, and the misappropriation of their wealth.
How more plainly can it be said? The US financial system as it now stands cannot be trusted to observe even the most basic property rights as it continues to unravel from a long standing culture of fraud.
Get your money as far away from Wall Street as is possible. And if you want to own gold and silver, take delivery and store it in a secure private facility outside the fractional reserve system.
Barrons
The Silver Rush at MF Global
By ERIN E. ARVEDLUND
December 17, 2011
It's one thing for $1.2 billion to vanish into thin air through a series of complex trades, the well-publicized phenomenon at bankrupt MF Global. It's something else for a bar of silver stashed in a vault to instantly shrink in size by more than 25%.
That, in essence, is what's happening to investors whose bars of silver and gold were held through accounts with MF Global.
The trustee overseeing the liquidation of the failed brokerage has proposed dumping all remaining customer assets—gold, silver, cash, options, futures and commodities—into a single pool that would pay customers only 72% of the value of their holdings. In other words,while traders already may have paid the full price for delivery of specific bars of gold or silver—and hold "warehouse receipts" to prove it—they'll have to forfeit 28% of the value.
That has investors fuming. "Warehouse receipts, like gold bars, are our property, 100%," contends John Roe, a partner in BTR Trading, a Chicago futures-trading firm. He personally lost several hundred thousand dollars in investments via MF Global; his clients lost even more. "We are a unique class, and instead, the trustee is doing a radical redistribution of property," he says.
Roe and others point out that, unlike other MF Global customers, who held paper assets, those with warehouse receipts have claims on assets that still exist and can be readily identified.
The tussle has been obscured by former CEO Jon Corzine's appearances on Capitol Hill. But it's a burning issue for the Commodity Customer Coalition, a group that says it represents some 8,000 investors—many of them hedge funds—with exposure to MF Global...
At stake is an unspecified, but apparently large, volume of gold and silver bars slated for delivery to traders through accounts at MF Global, which filed for bankruptcy on Oct. 31. Adding insult to the injury: Of the 28% haircut, attorney and liquidation trustee James Giddens has frozen all asset classes, meaning that traders have sat helplessly as silver prices have dropped 31% since late August, and gold has fallen 16%. To boot, the traders are still being assessed fees for storage of the commodities...
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Re "Kyle likes nickels. Took delivery of 20 million of them."
Geez - is he starting his own country or something? Anyway, now you know where to go to get change for the vending machine!
Re. "...at MFGlobal it turned out there was a 100% chance they got robbed."
Good one - LOL!!
"Maybe he's thinkin of arming his beavers with AK47s"
This would not be that strange at all considering Kyle's upbringing in Fort Worth Texas. Of course he would definitely NOT be arming them with some foreign weapon. My guess is he is arming them with a quality American made product (that he also happens to own stock in) like a Colt .223/.556 carbine.
Of course he would definitely NOT be arming them with some foreign weapon. My guess is he is arming them with a quality American made product (that he also happens to own stock in) like a Colt .223/.556 carbine.
You mean the ones our guys were dropping to pick up AK's in Viet Nam and Iraq?
For a guy with a moniker for mathematical precision, you can do better than this!
.223 Remington is the civilian version which is a decimal measurement of INCHES as in ".223 inches." The Nato version of similar caliber is measured in milimeters, as in 5.56 milimeters. Both measurements refer to internal diameter of the barrel and the caliber is stamped on the outside of the barrel itself. They are similar but not precisely the same and in point of fact firing 5.56 out of a designated .223 barrel is a no no, while .223 ammunition can be safely fired from a 5.56 barrel.
You keep referring to .556 ...
Dutifully noted - I stand corrected ;)
so, there are no chem-trails in the sky overlooking his vast acreage? it is/will be illegal to own farms of any kind! only funny farms would exist (fema.)
Which presidential directive instructs the confiscation of all means and locations of production, transport etc? The only private ownership if a state of emergency is declared will be of one's own insignificance and disposability.
What gold? what silver? we aint got no fricken physicals.
And no outrage still?..where are the fricken riots and demonstrations,....eh?
www.overlordsofchaos.com/
Forgt the "bank runs". Pretty soon there will be bankers just taken out of offices and shot! After all, they ARE stealing.
Bank run coming soon. I don't know anyone, other than the uninformed, who would trust a bank after this.
Banana republic.
Confrence call 11:43 PM December 16, 2011
Giddens: After you drove the price down, I sold the bars, even the receipted ones [giggle], reducing the amount of payout to the customers.
JPMorgan: Good. The physical was already in our warehouse. Thanks to CME/COMEX for approving us as a warehouse in March without the usual 30 day approval and inspection nonsense.
Duffy (CME): Just let us know when you'd like to raise the margins. We can do it even when the commodity price is falling and just say "volatility."
Goldman Sachs: We told you that having a warehouse was handy. Our Detroit aluminum operation is a profit center.
Corzine: Now you guys promised no jail time and you would pay any fine.
JPMorgan: Yes, Jon, it's a lock with the administration.
Corzine: OK.
Biden: Jon don't worry. The cat's off the roof and in the bag.
JPMorgan: What the hell does that even mean? The cat better have a hold of your tongue, Joe. If any of this gets out, Jon will have to commit suicide.
Corzine: What!?
JPMorgan: The note's already written. Just in case.
JPMorgan: With this metal we can cover the remaining dipsticks that still trust the market and want delivery. Hugo was such an ass. Can you believe he pulled that stunt?
NYFed: We covered that delivery, not you.
JPMorgan: Yes, yes. Now are we done here? Remember, nothing in writing and that includes emails.
Very enjoyable. Bravo.
Thank you. I never believed writers that said they just think up the characters and the story writes itself. But this truly did write itself. Sadly I forgot about bit players like Gensler taking a tactical overseas trip to avoid Congressional testimony.
Not only did it write itself, it's pretty damned plausible.
the globalists demand poverty for all! no matter if y'all BTFD in PM's, they will take it! when you're enjoying the fema family night movie, where do you think yout PM's will be? PM's are intentionally priced lower so more sheeple BTFD, then, for it to be taken away! these globalists worship satan and anything of value! our lives are not one of them! WAKE UP!!!! WHERE ARE THE RIOTS, WHILST THESE THEFTS ARE TAKING PLACE? I SAID! WAKE UP!!!!!
Sabra1:
"WHERE ARE THE RIOTS, WHILST THESE THEFTS ARE TAKING PLACE? I SAID! WAKE UP!!!!!"
The coward sheeple are still sound asleep!
How many of the afore mentioned sheeple were investing in commodities and futures with MF global?
How many of the afore mentioned sheeple are receiving subsidies from the government?
How many of the sheeple are materially comfortable, meaning a roof over their heads, food in their bellies and sufficient popular distractions?
It is going to be a long while my friend before your riots take place.
The world never ends when it is supposed to ...
"And in an absolutely classic Wall Street move, they are still charging the customers storage fees on the bullion which they have misappropriated from them. lol."
If you can't hold it in your hand or stand in front of it to protect it...you don't possess it.
Maybe they should pay the storage fee with a credit card and then dispute the charge. If they're going to fight over the last nickel, let them fight over it among themselves ;-)
'If you can't hold it in your hand or stand in front of it to protect it...you don't possess it.' - That's not true, is it?
You only own what you can defend.
Would you tell that to Greek Cypriots now pressing claims to property held in Northern (Turkish) Cyprus now that it is not under their control?
100% correct. If you don't hold it, you don't own it.
OK, that looks like a drive-by comment. Name one thing that you own that isn't given to you by the state, given that the State is the legal system that says you can own anything.
Name one thing you can own that can't be taken from you in taxes by the state...
Name one thing you can own that can't be taken from you in taxes by the state...
Your humanity.
I am fighting the beast by downsizing. What, exactly, do you really need ? Think about it.
Once you chuck out Wall Street and Madison Avenue, life can begin. Trust in people can start anew.
Nice try, ask same question to detainees who went thru Abu Grahb, or G'mo...USG = USGulag, coming soon to a theatre near you. US Battlefield = World.
LOL. You can't own humanity can you?
That's just something that you have...
humanity
"That's just something that you have..."
Or not...
Many sell their humanity, just like any commodity...
As a practical matter, you're not entirely wrong. But even on that level, we still comprise a significant part of the state, despite the all too common victim mentality.
As a matter of principle, however, you are mistaken. Ownership is a primary cause of the state, not merely its effect. Read Locke, the Founders did.
I'd like to think you are right, really I would, but I know that you aren't.
We have already given up every right we ever had to assets, and whatever semblance of a right we still have we seem all too eager to give that up as well...
For the greater good, of course.
I appreciate both the thoughtfulness and the sentiment, but really, where is that going to get us? Despair is unhealthy on both the individual and social level. There are still some things worth fighting for and many willing and able to fight. The question is, where will you chose to stand?
Remember that history rhymes. This not the first time TPTB have gained an obscene ascendency, and it would not be the first time they have been deposed by those who refused to capitulate to them.
I am far from despair old stick. I am in the habit of tackling problems head on where ever I see them and I saw this one coming a long time ago.
If I said there was to be a famine you could despair, but if you had stocked up your shelves and fridge you wouldn't feel quite so bad, or desperate.
Prior planning is everything...
Our only issue here is how best to go about it...
Your statement fails to recognize that a social contract has obligations for both parties. When one party abuses that contract it is null and void.
While the State can take whatever it wants, it first has to have the approval of the governed. When that approval is withdrawn because of criminal actions, the State loses that approval and it's authority to seize goods. Its' representatives may then be considered thieves and treated as such.
The State cannot exist without the approval of the greater population. It is this approval that allows laws to function and be observed.
Long live the KING, Barrack Obama (or insert any other clown's name you choose every four years).
If the President can indefinitely detain a US Citizen without warrant or judicial review, the President is no longer President, sworn to uphold the Constitution. The President is KING.
It seems that the subjects still approve given the time honored tradtion of Bread and Circuses.
'Mein Furher' i believe is the title for CEO/CIC of Crypto Fascist Corporacratic Empire pretenders. Followed by 'Emperor'
The Constitution has been rehypothecated.
You assume that to tax is illegal, or that I advocate that the State needs do something to which it is not currently entitled. It is not.
The State can impose a 90% tax rate anytime it pleases, compulsorily purchase and confiscate, make illegal at will through the mandate already given to it.
Now then what can you own that the State cannot take away, legally?
No, I said to abuse the authority granted in the original social contract has ramifications- including the people withdrawing their approval. It matters not whether an action is illegal or legal- what matters is acceptance. The State can do anything it wants, but if the people refuse to cooperate, that action is null and void.
Ok so it seems we are discussing different things. You say that the State can only govern by consent, to which I agree and I am saying that there is nothing that you can own that the State cannot take from you, under its existing powers... because in electing them in the first place you have already consented to that.
Or am I missing something here?
No, I said government needs the approval of the people, not just consent. Consent is comprised of the electoral process. If the government then proceeds to rule in a way that compromises the people's approval- the people may then choose to disobey the law.
The government hasn't the resources to control the people. It DEPENDS on their approval. Without it, the law is worthless.
If you were for real you would understand that the government doesn't need their approval at all, merely their consent, or should I say their acquiescence.. How do you think that communism thrived for so long? Are you saying that only those that approve agree to be governed? Do you think the Russians approve of their government or merely consent to it.
Next we move to China, then Africa, or how about Zimbabwe, do you think they approve of Mugabe?
I thought you were doing quite well there for a minute but now we see a naivety that is belies reality.
You do remember the revolution of 1776, the French revolution, the Bolshevik revolution, The Arab Spring? People withdraw their approval all the time.
Unfortunately, people refuse to evolve the social contract and diminish or get rid of government.
I am very real.
I was going to remove the last line because I didn't feel you deserved it entirely but the system was locked.
Yes I remember them, I also remember the Chinese revolution, Serfdom under Peter the Great as well as the Resistance in WWII but not personally, obviously. The Vichy government had the consent of the French for a while, but I do not for one minute accept that it had their approval. Fact is there has never been a government anywhere as far as I can recall that had the approval of all of the people, only a majority.
Fact is that the revolutions to which you refer occurred because the people removed their acceptance or should I say their acquiescence; I believe in both cases their approval was long gone.
Noone ever sues the government and wins?
Try again.
On a personal level, you will be broke long before a government will admit they are wrong.
They love it when you sue them. Now, they can hire their brother-in-law's legal firm to defend them; using your money.
And the bonus on top ? The brother-in-law can contibute your money to their next campaign.
All adds to GDP...
and this means what?
^^^THIS^^^
Your government is elected to take whatever it wants at will. You don't approve any budget neither do you approve any action of the government.
You own nothing that cannot already be taken from you under powers already gifted to the government.
To hold it is to lose it eventually. If you think I'm wrong then you need look no further than your income. How much of that do you keep?
I will assume you mean a central/federal elected government. It is nothing but consent to be governed in a certain way by a wide variety of people.
When government strays away from the foundational agreement (the contract if you will) the people begin to remove themselves from it. Rebellion is against every nations laws, yet it occurs.
There is nothing magical about mans law or government. They are not deities.
Although statists & lawyers would like you to think so...lol.
I'm not of a mood to disagree with you here, I simply said that there is nothing you can own that cannot be taken (or taxed) from you, or words to that effect, and by that I mean under the governments existing mandate. That is a different argument to this one.
When all's said and done I agree with this statement, but the discussion was about ownership of physical metals and the theft by MFG. That as I see it is a different matter entirely...
There are many things you can own that need not be in your physical possession...