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Update On Wall Street Protests
WWII Vet to Wall Street Protesters: “I Am So Proud Of All You People” WWII and Other Military Vets Support Wall Street Protest
A reader posted the following comment regarding the Occupy Wall Street protests:
I am so proud of all you people who are showing your back bones, to stand up and put a stop to the Banking cartel, who is defining History, by insisting that We The People, use their Fiat Money system. Our Constitution states, that Only Gold and Silver shall be used as lawful Money. The So Called Federal Government, is really only to have Ten Square Miles, in which to conduct their so called wisdom to Protect the Sovereign States. But look at how much territory they call, Federal lands etc. We Have a rouge Government, which is completely out of control. Your movements of collective peaceful protests, are the beginning of the end for the crooked Fiat Money people. I am a WWII Vet, South Pacific Campaign. 94 years young, handy capped, from War Injuries. I want you to know from my Heart, I am so proud of each and every one of you. So Hang in there, your movement is just what this Country needs.
I’m not certain whether the reader is one of these gentlemen attending the Occupy Wall Street protests:
In fact, military men of all ages support the protests:
Conservatives Support Protests Conservative Groups Support Protests
Last month, I called on conservative groups to endorse the Occupy Wall Street protests:
It is time for some big conservative endorsements, to rally around the non-partisan issues important to all Americans.
The Tea Party should endorse the protests, but so should the Oath Keepers, taxpayer rights groups, conservative Christians, limited government groups, and all other conservative groups.
Karl Denninger – one of the founders of the Tea Party – certainly supports the protests, even if he doesn’t agree with some of the positions taken by some of the protesters.
And yesterday, the Oath Keepers and a founding member of the Tea Party announced that they are supporting the protests:
Common Ground Between Conservatives and LiberalsOath Keepers sees good reason to stand in the streets with these awakening souls and protect their right to free speech, to peacefully assemble, and to redress their grievances to their government, as the Constitution prescribes for all Americans. That is one thing. Another facet of our initiative is to use these public gatherings to reach and teach many who now hunger for the truth – we can show them how the Constitution will protect them better than an oversized, bloated Federal behemoth hell-bent on controlling every aspect of each citizen’s life.
To point this out to the masses, Oath Keepers is organizing a joint effort along with Alex Jones of Infowars dot com (who himself called for an Occupy the Fed movement); Steven Vincent of End The Fed; Danny Panzella’s Truth Squad TV; Brandon Smith of Alt-Mkt.com; Gary Franch of Restore The Republic; and others as quickly as we can contact them. Remember Bob Dwyer, the guy who started the first Tea Party to launch the Ron Paul revolution? He’s in. The forces of Constitutional rule of law must muster now to deflect the bile being belched forth by the socialist/statist extremists …. Oath Keepers has the message American youth need. If we do not go out into the street and give them the truth, can we really say we’re still honoring our Oath?
As I’ve previously noted, both liberals and conservatives hate corporate socialism (where the federal government favors giant corporations at the expense of the little guy) . The Oathkeepers announcement zeroes in on this issue in a way that both conservatives and liberals can agree on:
When a corporation becomes larger than is useful, and seeks to concentrate financial power into the political and governmental spheres, its likeness is no longer the King Snake, but instead is more like a Rattlesnake. At a point we call such corps “Monopoly Capitalists”. By the time a grouping of such Monopoly Capitalist corps are setting U.S. foreign policy, which the arms industry certainly does nowadays, the problem becomes unbearably apparent. Bechtel comes to mind, along with Halliburton, the Carlyle Group, Monsanto, General Electric, et al.
That part of Wall Street is certainly to blame. But that is not “Capitalism”. Instead, it is “Monopoly Capitalism”, and it is now observably moving America into a new world order with intent to place America under the alleged authority of a one-world government. As such, Monopoly Capitalism is un-Constitutional and must be opposed.
While Michael Moore says that capitalism itself is the problem, Mr. Moore is wrong. As I’ve previously noted:
Corrupt Politicians As Enablers of CorruptionWhen Mahatma Gandhi was asked what he thought about Western civilization, he answered:
I think it would be a good idea.
I feel the same way about free market capitalism.
It would be a good idea, but it is not what we have now. Instead, we have either socialism, fascism or a type of looting.
If people want to criticize capitalism and propose an alternative, that is fine . . . but only if they understand what free market capitalism is and acknowledge that America has not practiced free market capitalism for some time.
***
People pointing to the Western economies and saying that capitalism doesn’t work is as incorrect as pointing to Stalin’s murder of millions of innocent people and blaming it on socialism. Without the government’s creation of the too big to fail banks, Fed’s intervention in interest rates and the markets, government-created moral hazard emboldening casino-style speculation, corruption of government officials, creation of a system of government-sponsored rating agencies which had at its core a model of bribery, and other government-induced distortions of the free market, things wouldn’t have gotten nearly as bad.
As Justice Louis Brandeis said:
In a government of laws, the existence of the government will be imperiled if it fails to observe the law scrupulously. Our government is the potent, the omnipotent teacher. For good or ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. If government becomes a lawbreaker it breeds contempt for law: it invites every man to become a law unto himself. It invites anarchy.
If there has been lawlessness and corruption among Wall Street players, it was partially simply modeling the lawlessness and corruption of the Executive Branch and Congress members. I’ve written elsewhere about how the government lied by saying Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and was behind 9/11 (when he didn’t and wasn’t), that we don’t torture (when we did), that we don’t spy on Americans (when we did), etc. Just like kids model what their parents do as well as what they say, Wall Street modeled the unlawful and corrupt actions of our government employees.
Being against capitalism because of the mess we’ve gotten in would be like Gandhi saying that he is against Western civilization because of the way the British behaved towards India.
The Oathkeepers and conservative alternative media powerhouse Alex Jones also zero in on the Federal Reserve system as a core problem. As Oath Keepers notes in its announcement:
Oath Keepers is planning to “Occupy The Fed Now!” and publicize this to remind the Occupy Wall Street people that the Fed is the source problem, without which the Wall Street criminals would be set back a hundred years. I will be posting our press release and a longer list of groups and orgs who will be joining Oath Keepers in this initiative.
We are currently drawing up our press release regarding our own response to the Occupy Wall Street phenomenon, which will be Oath Keepers’ official statement. We are now planning an official Oath Keepers project which we’ve named “Occupy The Fed Now!”.
Yes, Oath Keepers has seen the need to block the attempted takeover of the populist movement generally referred to as Occupy Wall Street.
In an extensive phone conference on the evening of October 04, 2011, we heard from Oath Keepers who have attended Occupy Wall Street, Occupy Boston, Occupy Los Angeles, and Occupy Seattle. The overall consensus from our people at these rallies is that most people attending the rallies are very open-minded to the Oath Keepers mission/message, and that they are hungry for answers. Indeed, our reports indicate that many Americans right now are awakening, in droves it seems, and they are full of questions for which we have the answer – the Constitution for the united States of America.
While progressives might assume that the Fed has helped the economy from getting worse, or that the importance of ending the Fed is being overhyped, top economists and financial experts disagree. See this, this and this.
As I pointed out Monday, whatever people think the government should do, the D.C. politicos have actually been a large part of the problem:
Because government policy is ensuring high unemployment, it is not surprising that the American protesters are angry at the Federal Reserve and other government institutions, and not just the big Wall Street banks.
Remember, Bush and Obama’s economic policies are virtually indistinguishable. Indeed, Obama actually likes high unemployment.
And as I noted in 2009, the government created the giant banks:
As MIT economics professor and former IMF chief economist Simon Johnson points out today, the official White House position is that:
(1) The government created the mega-giants, and they are not the product of free market competition
(2) The White House needs to “regulate and oversee them”, even though it is clear that the government has no real plans to regulate or oversee the banking behemoths
(3) Giant banks are good for the economy
Of course, the government has also made it policy to cover up fraud and protect the fraudsters, and so the free market has no chance to punish fraud or cleanse wrongdoing from the system.
Without government-created moral hazard emboldening casino-style speculation, corruption of government officials, creation of a system of government-sponsored rating agencies which had at its core a model of bribery, and other government-induced distortions of the free market, things wouldn’t have gotten nearly so bad.
Indeed, the government is so corrupt that the head of the economics department at George Mason University says that D.C. politicians are worse than prostitutes … they are “pimps”, since they are pimping out the American people to the financial giants.
And while co-option of government by the big banks is a huge problem, it is also true that corruption in government leads to corruption in the private sector. See this and this. The U.S. has truly become a banana republic, just like the worst Latin American countries.
So anyone who thinks that government would solve all of our problems if it were only freed from obstructionists is only seeing half the problem, and is falling for the oldest trick in the book … the ole’ divide and conquer strategy.
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it sure is. i am a jewish american , i love the germans and i find them to be the only honest country in europe. i find it deeply ironic how the underlying dynamic of the american and german relationship in world war ii has sort of flipped around , with america the new fascists to be ( if not already! ), and the germans the modest hardworking honest and non-interventionist country ( hey your country still hosts 50k american troops ).
when i visited berlin it was eye opening. i hope to visit again soon.
also, on this day of 'yom kippur' when the jews atone for their sins and imperfections-----i want you to know a new and young generation of jewish american nationalists forgives germany and looks to the deutschland for leadership and honesty in an insane world filled with corruption. I may not be the typical 'jew' in america, but there are some americans of jewish ancestry like myself--i am not the only one, please don't forget it.
thank you too...
Hello bankruptcylawyer,
I don't know if we are the only honest country. I'd wish it were like that. See, I am confronted almost daily by the same BS that you guys listen to in America - just here. Fake government statistics, lobbyism, politicians just give a shit about what the public thinks (as could be seen with the Afghanistan engagement - which was very unpopular and still is).
And yes, I see a lot of the American troops where I live (in the area of Mainz) (but luckily I am not depending on them like other people here - as I said - some cities in the south west depend heavily on the US military bases. Nobody here feels occupied and I never heard any bad stories - it may sound strange to you (yes, yes, brainwashed, I know ;-) but many people even like it. No, not because of the money. It plays an important role in that region (Palatinate) - no question. (And I can understand every American taxpayer that says - it's enough). It has to do with that American flair - makes the region much more interesting. Sometimes there are American police patrols on the road here.
I don't hope we ever see American fascism. That would be a true nightmare. All of my grandfathers fought in WWII.
I had a very close and good relationship to one of my grandfathers (although I liked all of my grandfathers; it's not easy for someone to look to a loved family member, not knowing - could they? Have they? They were not shy when I asked and told me many stories, although some of them were indeed very gruesome. I wish I could say all of them were good guys, behaved nicely - etc. fact is: I don't know for sure. It's just a feeling, some old documents and what they said about it. I know where they served, the units etc. (none of them were part of the SS)
That one grandfather at least had voted for SPD, was a WWI veteran (machine gunner; drafted 1917) and was not happy about WWII. I asked him once when I was about ten years old: Did you know what they did to the jews? He said: If somebody tells you that he did not know, he is naive or a liar. All knew. Not every detail of course, but most people did not care and those that did, had to be careful about what they say in public.
Why didn't you do something against it? "I wanted to protect my family. I failed." (he had three boys, two daughters; one of his daughters was mentally ill and was killed with the T4 programme ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_T4 ) while he was on the front; they were strictly against this, both were catholic and deeply religious). "I was not a hero. Am I ashamed of that time? Yes. See, I had Jewish comrades in WWI and we fought together. I hated Hitler for what he had done to my country. But I could not say this to almost anybody. I was afraid. I was very afraid..."
He was definitely not a fan of the Nazis. He got even in a fight with a young officer that had ordered a suicide mission and was very pompous (fresh from the military academy, telling WWI vets how to fight a war.). He was sent to a military prison for several weeks, but his comrades helped him and supported his case. He was sent home after that incident. Later in that war he was "commander" of a local Volkssturm group - they had one rocket launcher, kids and old people. Fortunately for him, he could surrender to American troops. They had not fired a single shot, although the mayor (a nazi) of that town had threatened that the SS would kill all of them and their families and so forth, if they did not defend that town and fight with their lives).
He felt guilty though. See, he had not much contact with the jewish culture or life. Unlike someone that lived in Berlin at that time. He had jewish comrades in WWI and he knew that they were brave people. He felt very strongly that this was a part of German history and culture. That it was injustice, horrible, just horrible. He felt guilty because he had not the guts to do more. I must say that I never saw him as a fearful man, he was quite the opposite. But you could tell from his look that he was indeed very afraid when he told me that (about how he tried to protect his family and not tell anyone about his political and personal beliefs)
---
I wish I could turn back the time and change things. I can't. It is part of our heritage. It is not easy for Germans to confront their own past. I just know that they were not directly involved (not part of the SS); they were ordinary soldiers (one was an army cook; one was a captain; two of them were Gefreiter (Private) fighting in Africa, Russia; etc.). I am sure that some of my family members voted for the NSDAP. I know that we had nationalistic people in our family. My grandfather (the one I was talking about) lost three of his brothers in Russia. One died in Stalingrad. One is still missing. One died during the Battle of Moscow.
Germany lost a great part of its own history and culture. Just think of the brilliant jewish-german scientists, philosophers, writers, engineers, doctors, etc - but also the jewish culture. I know here are some people - like that idiot yesterday on GWs blog - that still hate jews. I can understand that people criticize Israel (although it is hard for me personally - not because I am German (that would be a point ;) - no, but I can't make an opinion there. I've a Jewish friend, the ex-girlfriend of a good friend of mine and she spent two years in Israel. And what she observed was quite interesting. But still I can't shape an opinion.) I cannot understand that people are still into this century old bs.
You know what - my grandfather that loved his country, that fought for his country in WWI and WWII - he was glad that the war was over. He even was glad that Germany lost. He hated to live under a fascist regime. Sure, he also hated to see all that distress that the war caused, but he also felt strongly - we deserved it, we have no right to cry about it. He was ashamed of what his generation had done. I'd say that we learnt our lesson - the hard way. Germany has changed.
I visited the KZ Natzweiler-Struthof with a French friend. It was a horrible experience. But there was another experience which hit me even harder: I love to hike around the area where I live. Palatinate has a beautiful landscape. Well, one day I found a Jewish cemetary - almost by accident. It was well hidden - a village was not far from it, but nature had claimed back the place. A bit like the Jewish cemetary of Lustadt ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miyZ9HZBQng ). Just smaller, older and the plants were just everywhere. It felt like I was the first on that cemetary for a long, long time. It was of course not a horrible experience, but a very sad one.
BTW: Sorry for the long personal reply (and the mistakes). I had to. And it was a rainy saturday here. :)
PY129-20
Moving, thank you for your words and I hope you can recall that most of us here at ZH are not the fascist trolls that bait every topic and flame everyone that believes in the better part of humanity. It is sad but the same powers that drew Germany under the spell of Hitler are alive and well everywhere, and they grow in power every day. They are sad and sick and utterly tireless. We beat them back and they take decades to rekindle hate, but they always manage to return like the cockroaches they are. About every sixty to eighty years it seems. I just hope that when the next great war against the sick minded right comes that Germans are on our side, unless of course we are the problem rather than the hope, and every time I open ZH I think America is exactly where Germany was in 1924.
Only honest country in Europe - care to expand?
On a long enough time line everything is a free market.
On a long enough timeline negative entropy drops to zero. Just photons and neutrinos in a dark universe.
About 101000000000000 years from now. Mark your calendar.
adam and eve alone again in the garden of space :o )
Oh man.....
And I was having such a good time!
Just want to point out that is iTheory ... in 100 years or so no one with even think like that any longer ... indeed, the common scientific understanding humans will have then about the cosmos and astro will be so radically different, that the theoretical notion of entropy-death will be virtually alien, considered very naive, and rediculously absurd.
Don't think so?
Just read history of science and cosmological developments from a century ago ... the atom and electron had just been confirmed to exist people didn't even know there were separate galaxies yet ... they just thought there was a 'milkyway' with nebulae.
This time is not different.
keep it peaceful. make it massive.
out and stop all provocateurs of violence. let the state be the only violent ones. let the state show their intent to prevent the exercise of basic citizen rights.
the more massive, the more peaceful
The "state" isn't going to use any significant violence against these Campus Reds and Urban Cosmics. They are demonstrating for MORE STATE. Stop romanticizing.
THIS point, rather than the soon to be nominal distinction between 'left' and 'right' sides of the protesting classes, is going to be the real dividing line
some people are going to realize the need for violence to accomplish their goals of changing the system and others will be staunch defenders of 'non-violence'.
i have talked and read about the tactical use of violence and the strategic uses of 'non-violence' in protest movements a lot. it is a fascinating area of revolutionary planning and theory. really, you could put a good ten page post on zerohedge about this one question.
So what is your general opinion about success using violence or non-violence? Which do you think has achieved more success in history? Which do you think is the proper course for humanity now?
Technically, when you can muster the weaponry (and associated manpower) to fight the opponent, then it's a war, and if you cannot muster the weaponry (and manpower), then it's a protest. For a protest to work, you need massive manpower to outnumber the opponent who has the weapons. For war, you need whatever ratio of manpower : weapons required by the weapons. Violence or non-violence are not the sole issue... numbers also matter.
My opinion... you must first put all of this in context. You have to realize this oppression gig has a long deep history aspect to it, it goes back to the days of the greedy bastard who always took the most / best meat and beat others back, the bully in the community, the local gangster, the ruler who conquered his neighbors, the warlord who conquered his region or nation, the lunatic who conquered other nations, etc... and this has been haunting humanity since.
Our entire world is constructed out of the residue of these conquests... we the people are the losers, we are the conquered; the oligarchs are the rulers, the ruthless overlords. This trauma is so prevalent, it permeates every aspect and institution in our civilizations and has throughout history. Many of our beliefs and patterns of rationalization, expectations and demands, tolerated conditions, myth structures, cultures, etc are all based on the fact that most of us chose not to fight, chose not to risk our lives, surrendered, acknowledged someone else was more ruthless / powerful / threatening / armed, etc, to the extent that it is what eliminated our real self-esteem and it is what prevents us from really progressing. The cowards among us still warn us not to think too freely (or you may get beaten), not to think out of the box (or someone might notice), not to do things that are provocative (or you may draw attention onto the whole community), not to antagonize the oppressors (try to emulate them because they're obviously successful)... these are the rantings of neurotic psychopaths... and yes, almost all of us are neurotic psychopaths, because we have not been able to reconcile our need for true freedom (thoughts, actions, desires) against the "freedom" we've been allowed (someone else dictates all of the conditions and we oblige).
This pattern / condition has existed so damn long, most people have no clue they're trapped in someone else's nightmare... they think they actually want the limited freedoms that are being provided, that to expect more is just preposterous... get used to your cage, life is much more tolerable when you do, do not think of being outside the cage because only heartache ensues.
So, my solution to this global pandemic psychosis, is that we must raise our courage, all of us, all across the globe, all societies, every single person, to oppose the oligarchs, to show our courage, to have courage, to be willing to die for our freedom, to finally liberate ourselves from the low to no self-esteem / self-defeatist trap, to show ourselves we are not afraid, we are willing to die, so that all of humanity can live in true freedom.
There is a reason they used this exact storyline in the Matrix, when the machines were about to invade Zion, Morpheus gets up on the stage and addresses the citizens, We Are Not Afraid... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5ZWNOm4r2k . There is a reason this is referenced explicitly in Einstein's essay Why Socialism. http://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism . You cannot be free until you are not afraid. Once you overcome the demons that have haunted our subconsciouses for so fucking long it's impossible to distinguish between nature / nurture, then you also overcome the need to be a materialist. Add that to freedom, and you have Utopia. That is what people have been writing about for eons, and it is not a fucking pipe dream, it is our destiny. You just have to let go the god damn fear, and take hold of your courage.
So, to answer to the broader question, we must be strong, brave and willing to fight, but we do not need to fight. We must be willing to die, and some likely will, but most will not have to. It is not the act of fighting or dying that frees us, it is simply the real / physical / mental willingness to do so.
Now go out there and fight for everything, not just lower taxes. And for fucks sake, think beyond your limits. Dream a little dream, step out of the cage.
Provocateurs of violence are the police state's trolls. If this gets enough momentum there is, unfortunately, a chance that covert operators will set off a bomb and blame the protesters. Oldie but goodie -- always works. Remember that fishy bomb in Haymarket Square, Chicago 1886? The protesters' kids were in the crowd -- would they bring their kids if they were into boom?
Works everytime!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_bombing
easy to say if you or your friends are not the one being used as a pinata
Precisely. I'm there and have no interest in being beaten. I am considering asking the general assembly whether we can get Aikido and Kung Fu training for anyone at the rally that wants to learn. We need to find the masters who are willing to donate their time to the cause... or maybe some of the ex military guys know some. Aikido to try to deflect their violence, but if that doesn't work, Kung Fu for self defense, and if that doesn't work, for offense.
Hey Erin, why don't you ask that veteran if he knows whether the government made money on the bailout?
Hey Jon, how about the TBTF mark-to-market and we'll see if the bailout succeeded?
Putz.
Oh sure, if you don't count the trillions spent moving worthless mortgages to the taxpayer at face value. Move along. Nothing to see here.
I swear, that woman is such a fucking cunt. And dumber than a box of dogshit.
Not dumb...just a fiinancial whore.
Why don't you just tell us, Jon?
Yes thank you GW for this article, and thanks to all those at the protests!.
Good to hear what the Tea Partiers, Ron Paul and all the other groups, which are trying to get a foot in on their chat/im, are referencing and saying. I too don't want the Chat on LiveStream.Com/GlobalRevolution to let all these entities spread their work; but I do want to know what they are saying.
Thanks G.W.
Thanks for the learning points too!
Power to The People! United We Stand, Divided by Zero
ZeroHedge Rules!!
I've hardly ever seen pessimism so pervasive. But ironically, it's the primary pessimism-mongers who might have the most to be pessimistic about.
Does anyone really, truly want to go back to 1997? And could the World simply regress to that point, anyway? Of course, not. The DOGs are simply longing for a Golden Age - or rather, a PRE-Golden Age - to which there is no returning.
What happened in the 1930s might have been unavoidable.
What could happen this time is easily avoidable. But it will require those who have taken nearly all the marbles to learn to share with the other 99.999999999999 percent of kiddies in the playground.
You don't even have to give up a lot.
Just a few more crumbs. And a few less cookies.
Love and kisses.
(So AmDocs IS Prefetch??? As simple as that???)
1997 would be fine with me. 1980 better. Standard of living has gone down since then. Probably since before then but that's when I started working a real job.
What - no cell phone? That would be less work hours. An improvement.
"If it's always darkest before the dawn, the dawn must be about to break."
Venerability, it isn't even sunset yet. And all were seeing currently is haze.
We have not seen the darkness yet. This is still very light gray. Darkness is when people start killing each other for posessions, food, etc. Darkness is when goods do not get delivered and you're on your own. Etc.
And when and if we make it all the way to darkest, people start killing each other FOR food.
pods
Wha...?
Are you fucking kidding?
If I had a choice between 1997 and today, it'd be time for Groundhog's day, bitchez.
In '97, I earned over $180k- this year, I'll be lucky if I break $50k, and gasoline was $1.04 a gallon then. There were also better movies, and an overwhelming sense of optimism that was wonderful to experience. Money was raining from the friggin' sky, and it was still worth something then.
I'm hoping that the century you posted was a typo, and you were talking about something like 1297. (Which, IIRC, was the time frame when the black plague was making it's rounds- it'd be a coin flip between then and now.) Couldn't be 1897 or 1797 in the US, because I'd trade up for them in a heartbeat as well.
IIRC???
iirc if i recall correctly, if i recall correctly that is.
Heres one vet supporting them. I am not there but I have a few songs for them:
http://www.thenationsings.com/
Download all the songs here:
http://noisetrade.com/mainstreetproject
Wars for Israel bankrupted this country, assisted by the criminal cabal on Wall Street. AIPAC is toast.
Watch the movie "Defamation" on Netflix Instant watch. Makes ADL and Abe Foxman look like the crimininals and buffoons that they are.
The confluence of interests loosely defined as oil, empire, and Israel have hastened our bankruptcy.
I think you have Israel confused with the petroleum industry.
We have ZERO strategic interest supporting Israel. We got 100% trouble because of it. Enough!
No, LK. We did not get a drop of oil out of Iraq. Japs and Chicoms took it. We did Iraq because SH was financing human bombs in Jew-occupied Palestine, and the neo-cons around Bush wanted SH terminated. And we are in Afghanistan because we got 9/11'd. We got 9/11'd because for 40 years our Zion-owned politicians armed Israel, financed Israel, and suported all of Israel's aggressions and atrocities.
if you think Israel is more important than oil you are sadly mistaken
That's like saying that cheese is more important than bread in making a pizza. You'll get plenty of each.
We did it for the billions in no-bid contract blood money and a nice place to plant a base in the center of all that oil.
We got 9/11'd because we've been the biggest bully on the block since WWII, have the hubris to show for it, and didn't give a second thought to blowback from our meddling.
I hope you're right.
I also hope the dual citizen collaborators are the first to face military tribunal.
Dual citizenship is wrong and should be ended.
As a dual citizen I think you paint too broad a picture. All citizens of the USA must be loyal to the USA, and it is for good reason that naturalization requires one to drop any allegiance to any other nation, as well as forbidding any holder of dual citizenship from the presidency. But a blanket ban on all dual citizenship is not only impossible it is not even desirable. I know why you say this given the context of the postings you were replying to, that of automatic citizenship in Israel for anyone that is Jewish. But for Israel to grant blanket citizenship to anybody on the planet born Jewish does not mean that those people wish to exercise that option or even like Israel. You cannot deny them their rightful US citizenship just because they were born Jews. Just like you will not deny my dual citizenship in the USA and Ireland (EU) while I am still alive simply because my mother was American and my father Irish. My loyalty to the US has always been supreme and I would put it up against any other poster's at ZH. Part of what makes America worth the effort is it's inclusion and diversity, exclusion and hate needs to be shunned.
Have any of you been watching the story in Ireland about the dual citizen woman running for the presidency?
PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE Dana Rosemary Scallon has defended her US citizenship and insisted there is no conflict between this and her Irish citizenship.
Ms Scallon confirmed she had pledged the oath that requires naturalised US citizens to renounce their allegiance to all other states. Before doing so, she told an official she could not give up her Irish citizenship and he had said this was not a problem because there was a “unique relationship” between the countries.
“I was absolutely assured that the oath had no effect on my allegiance to this country,” she told RTÉ yesterday.
She said she took out US citizenship in 1999, after she had stood in the 1997 presidential election and not before that election, as stated by her sister, Susan Stein, during a court case in Iowa.
On entering office, the president is required to declare that he or she will “maintain the Constitution of Ireland and uphold its law”.
The US oath of allegiance sworn by Ms Scallon requires her to “absolutely and entirely renounce” allegiance to any foreign state, to defend the constitution and laws of the USA and to bear arms on behalf of the USA when required.
The law she was told was a special relationship actually is not a law, it is a state department policy on dual citizenship. The USA only requires you to give up citizenship from any nation that requires you to pledge an oath to that nation. You cannot be naturalized in the USA unless you abjure all oaths to other countries. But that is where Israel and Ireland have a "special relationship." Not special at all really, it is just that you can take a passport from those nations because they do not require an oath of allegiance to them. In the case of Israel all you have to do to get a passport is be Jewish and pay for the passport. For Ireland you have to have a parent or grandparent who was born in Ireland and pay for the passport. That however is changing, they are planning to require an oath for all new citizens soon. Existing citizens need not take that oath. If you qualify and want to take their passport do it soon, you never know when you might need to live in a neutral island nation with an agricultural economy that does not glow in the dark.
If Ms. Scallon were to become President of Ireland would she also be the Commander of its Armed Forces?
If elected she would be the Commander in Chief, however I would like to point out that Ireland is a neutral nation with virtually no military. Their Navy is really just a coast guard, their main mission is rescue of distressed fishing vessels, enforcement in the territorial waters, and occasional aid to some of the islands offshore.