The U.S. Handling of the Poker Industry Is Another Example of Anti-Jobs Policy

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Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:27 | 1711048 Let them all fail
Let them all fail's picture

Man this shit is annoying, sure there is an element of luck, but there is an element of luck in everything.  Should baseball be outlawed because sometimes the ball takes funny hops or the wind carries it out of the park when it should be a flyout?  Of course not.  Or maybe we should outlaw business altogether because so much is based on luck of having the economy do well.  And don't even get me started on the stock market, it is gambling more than poker could ever be.  Poker is not gambling unless you are stupid and don't know how to play, get over it you stupid assholes.

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 18:42 | 1706118 sethstorm
sethstorm's picture

Pro-Business or Get Out Of The Way!

Crony capitalism's goal - not to be confused with anything that gives freedom to people that choose not to be a business.

Or do you not mind having business being able to be judge, jury, and executioner to anyone that opposes them?

 

 

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 12:14 | 1705243 patb
patb's picture

Poker is not a value added industry. All it is is a redistribution industry. 

If you spend all day at the poker table, no product is created, no service is provided.

Merely the better players take the money of the poorer players.

 

Funny, isn't that what the NY Banks do?

 

 

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 00:55 | 1706742 vjmali
vjmali's picture

Going by your reasoning what is a value add of any game?

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 11:01 | 1705058 Mitzibitzi
Mitzibitzi's picture

Leaving aside the Poker theme to the article, which I see as merely an illustration of one potential industry (even if it IS one that's bound to wind up as a total scam to fleece suckers), good points are raised about the fact that governments typically impose taxation and regulation which stifles small - medium business.

I personally would like to set up a business in aquaculture farming.

For those who don't know, that's cycling the water from a tank where you're raising edible fish (typically talapia, yellow perch, trout and similar) through a series of growbeds in which you have plants. Bacteria in the gravel-filled growbeds breaks down the waste products from the fish water and turn them into nitrates which feed the plants. Simultaneously, that cleans the water, which is drained back to the tank. Almost totally closed cycle, requiring only feed for the fish (which you can grow, also) and a small amount of top up water to replace what's lost through evaporation. Also, the plants can be planted closer together than they would be in soil and grow upto 3 times faster due to the high power liquid fertilizer they receive 24 hours a day.

A guy in Missouri runs a non-profit aquaculture food co-op that grows a million pounds weight, per year, of plants and fish on only 3 acres. The polytunnels are heated by waste heat from composters inside. And the compost is sold to other farmers / gardeners who grow spuds, carrots and other stuff that work less well in hydroponic growing environments, which pays the electric bill (a few fluorescent lights and half a dozen water pumps, is all).

I've got a couple of small scale aquaculture setups running here and it's both fun and easy. And there's nothing to beat a really fresh tomato you just pulled off the plant.

I asked myself a while ago whether I could do it on a larger scale for a living. Did the sums and figure I'd need about an acre of land and about £10,000 for equipment. There's plenty of land for lease around here at quite cheap rates and I can save the start up money in under a year if I quit going out to eat, kept my current car a while longer and generally trimmed the sails on spending. I don't have any debt to speak of, either, which helps.

Would I start this up, in today's economic and political climate? Not a fucking chance! I'd spend more time and money trying to comply with a million and one bullshit rules and regulations than I ever would growing food.

Government needs to step back out of the way and let people do stuff that benefits (obviously!) themselves and the local AND national economy! Government IS the problem!

The one possibility I have is that I live in Wales, not England. The Welsh Assembly is slightly less retarded and make grants available to innovative start-ups like the one I propose. IF I can pry loose some of that money, I might be in business doing something that's fun, environmentally friendly, keeps people fed and will probably even create a couple of jobs in the fullness of time. I've even got a verbal agreement with the local Agriculture College that I'll allow them to use my premises as a teaching venue for students, if I can swing the funding.

And that's currently a very big IF!

 

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 19:14 | 1706166 ping
ping's picture

Hi M, did some rooting around (and you thought I'd forgotten? For shame!) Looks like the station(s) may be an addition to the Automatic Urban and Rural Monitoring Network (AURN) http://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/networks/find-sites. Got an image of the monitor at http://www.welshairquality.co.uk/moreinfo.php?lg=&n_action=monitoring&t=.... No new sites are listed for September 2011, but maybe that's simply 'cos they hadn't been plugged in yet. Turns out they like using rural locations for baseline data.

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 10:54 | 1705044 Atlantis Consigliore
Atlantis Consigliore's picture

I told you Ace, in CASINO,  its all about the dollars, hey Frankie, over

hear,  we can make a deal and cut the deficit just raise taxes LOL....

 

suckers, they will beleive anything, the sheeple.

all about the f****n dollars,   the rest is talk, politics,  

now where are those Solyndra guys holes in the desert i saved for them?

joking....

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 09:59 | 1704965 I did it by Occident
I did it by Occident's picture

"Pro-Business or Get Out Of The Way!"

Pro-Free Market or Get Out Of The Way!

 

there, fixed it for ya!  :)

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 08:26 | 1704809 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

This means having the same legal rights and status as the legalized physical domains of casinos so that all the foreign based operations, jobs, and taxable earnings are repatriated back to the US where most of their customers are located.  The entire Full Tilt Poker fiasco could have been avoided

So that's how the Full Tilt Poker "fiasco" could have been avoided...

FAIL

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 06:58 | 1704708 g speed
g speed's picture

If you think this is about gambling--you are missing the point of the whole blah--- its about taxes(extortion).

 "A consistent maximum rake across the United States in both the physical and online domains would be an important type of regulation that could be positive for the Industry"

Its as if I ask the question(I've said this many times) "what give you the right to cross my rivers on my bridges"?   If you argue that you have the right to do blah blah then you have argued the point and have validated the premise that I own the rivers and bridges--

In the same way if you argue about the gambling that is used as mis-focus to somehow make a point about "what"-- you accept the premise that "govts need a maximum rake".

These kinds of blahs need to be on this site-remember this is fight club and you need to stand outside the door till you get it-- just a little training on how to think about the propaganda your going to get everyday of you life

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 06:19 | 1704680 NuYawkFrankie
NuYawkFrankie's picture

Don't get me started on Govt & gambling.

Here in NYC the OTB was actually on the verge of going bust a few years back and - yes, you guessed it! - needed a bailout!

How a monoply gambling enterprise, which makes up its own odds can go bust is something I'll never be able to fathom.

Of course having its upper echelons stuffed to the gills with political hacks & cronies - of the likes of Guiliani, Cuomo, Dinkins etc - skimming everything that wasnt nailed down, didn't exactly help matters. I won't bore you with the issue of no-show, 6-figure - with perks - patronage jobs etc. Al Capone himself would probably hang his head in shame at being asscoiated with such an operation.

I dunno whether goodie-two-shoes Boomberg has cleaned it up in recent years (though I doubt he'd want to get his fingernails soiled). Anyway havent set foot in one of those OTB cesspits in years - as I have the services of my own (very respectable) turf-accountant when the need arises.

And while I'm at it - is there a bigger rip-off known to humanity than these freekin State Lotteries - more of a chance of being beamed-up & cavity-searched by Lizard people. Here in good ol' NY I'm surpised you come away with anything even if you do win - what with all the freekin taxes, surcharges, penalties for up-front payouts etc etc etc.

Yes, I can confirm that Carlo Gambino is spinning in his grave - and is turning a bright shade of green.

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 06:20 | 1704679 NuYawkFrankie
NuYawkFrankie's picture

Don't get me started on Govt & gambling.

Here in NYC the OTB was actually on the verge of going bust a few years back and - yes, you guessed it! - needed a bailout!

How a monoply gambling enterprise, which makes up its own odds can go bust is something I'll never be able to fathom.

Of course having its upper echelons stuffed to the gills with political hacks & cronies - of the likes of Guiliani, Cuomo, Dinkins etc - skimming everything that wasnt nailed down, didn't exactly help matters. I won't bore you with the issue of no-show, 6-figure - with perks - patronage jobs etc. Al Capone himself would probably hang his head in shame at being asscoiated with such an operation.

I dunno whether goodie-two-shoes Boomberg has cleaned it up in recent years (though I doubt he'd want to get his fingernails soiled). Anyway havent set foot in one of those OTB cesspits in years - as I have the services of my own (very respectable) turf-accountant when the need arises.

And while I'm at it - is there a bigger rip-off known to humanity than these freekin State Lotteries - more of a chance of being beamed-up & cavity-searched by Lizard people. Here in good ol' NY I'm surpised you come away with anything even if you do win - what with all the freekin taxes, surcharges, penalties for up-front payouts etc etc etc.

Yes, I can confirm that Carlo Gambino is spinning in his grave - and is turning a bright shade of green.

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 04:52 | 1704644 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

This Ponzi poker bullshit is another example of OBAMO Misdirection.

Ladies and Gentlemen, the Online poker industry did not destroy the US economy, Ponzi or no Ponzi.

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 05:49 | 1704665 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

I believe a form of government sanctioned gambling did the trick.  If we could only consign degenerate gamblers to on-line poker, maybe we wouldn't have a ponzi economy.

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 00:35 | 1704479 Buzz Hacksaw
Buzz Hacksaw's picture

Poker and Pot and many, many other things should be as legals as say broccoli. Back the f**k off and leave me the f**k alone. This is not what we hire govnmt to do. This thread should not be taking place!

Buzz

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 23:28 | 1704390 hivekiller
hivekiller's picture

Gambling is not a productive activity. Legalizing it is like legalizing prostitution. It creates jobs but really crappy jobs. Most of those playing poker will lose their shirts. Why not legalize child porn while we're at it. That will also generate jobs.

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 06:57 | 1704707 purpledinoz
purpledinoz's picture

So the government should decide what is productive and what is not productive? Professional sports is not productive, is it? Just a bunch of dudes hitting/kicking/throwing balls around while people watch and get drunk. Why not make sports illegal? Sports cars just waste gas and cost a lot of money, totally unproductive, should be illegal too. In fact, house plants should be illegal too, they just waste water and space. Damn, I can think of a hell of a lot of other things that are unproductive and there should be illegal.

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 02:31 | 1704582 mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

The really harmful gambling takes place at investment banks/hedge funds.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 23:43 | 1704411 SeventhCereal
SeventhCereal's picture

I think you have a crappy job.  Your comment shows your simple-minded thinking, I would never hire you.

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 02:40 | 1704589 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Gambling is shit.  Legalized theft from morons.   The online poker companies appear to have hd a lot of ponzi scams and looting going on.

LOL! Just like the movie Casino.  The counting room was skimming the skim going back to the Mafia bosses in Kansas City.  No honor among thieves.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 23:58 | 1704431 hivekiller
hivekiller's picture

Well thank the gods for that. What business are you in? Slaughterhouses? Brothels? Heroin dealing?

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 23:13 | 1704366 GoldmanSux
GoldmanSux's picture

It is well known Washington is looking at legalizing online gambling as a job creation/taxation measure. Their efforts right now are to root out the existing encumbants. To be followed by state sanctioned 'entrepreneurs'. I think Steve Wynn knows he won't be one of them.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 22:59 | 1704344 Lmo Mutton
Lmo Mutton's picture

We don't need no stinking jobs.

just keep the check coming.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 22:07 | 1704257 TarpMe
TarpMe's picture

Yesssss A) we need more people wasting their life transferring money to each other, adding no value, B) we need more waitress and bartender jobs. These engineering positions in cubicle city is a waste of a life. C) Where did this douchbag come from. I know ZeroHedge has to pay the bills somehow, but this is like disinformation. Even radio stations have their standards. Can TylerD or someone take responsibility for how much stupidity or ignorance they will allow in the paid spot?

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 22:20 | 1704280 Market Analyst
Market Analyst's picture

Your missing the point of the article, Poker is a metaphor for the anti-business approach Washington takes towards many small businesses, and just business in general.

Secondly, We have a balanced world with many types of jobs: To believe that everyone should be a Doctor is absurd, let the market decide what types of jobs the world actually finds useful and needs.

This must provide value or produce some "good" for society argument is invalid: Let the market decide the value or benefit to society, not some dictator of moral virtue, give me a break!

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 02:43 | 1704592 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Right now - aren't the casinos getting Uncle Sam to put the online casinos out of business?  The bricks & mortar casinos could not do the technology.  Uncle Sam goldstein puts the online casinos out of business, they then legalize online gaming for the casinos.  This is going on right now.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 22:04 | 1704248 cramers_tears
cramers_tears's picture

Ron Paul wants to let you play poker 'til you puke!

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 07:48 | 1704755 Are you kidding
Are you kidding's picture

Ron Paul wants you to be ABLE to do whatever YOU would like to do...until you puke if that is YOUR choice.

Get government out of our lives!

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 21:32 | 1704193 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Hey shouldn't someone have the liberty to get slowly parted from all of their cash? Likewise, shouldn't I have the liberty to fleece any sucker that I can of their cash?

Seriously, was this article payed for by whatever PAC/Lobbyist/Thinktank is in bed with on-line poker?... Enough great rich quick schemes already, it is partly why this country is where it is now.

This article is complete unadulterated bullshit....

BTW, it is "sowing the seeds".... at least get your fucking cliches straight

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 21:57 | 1704233 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American compulsive gambler." Or his gullibility.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 21:44 | 1704207 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

at least in poker , you have a chance, as opposed to the slot machines ,which legal in a lot more places than poker rooms

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 21:49 | 1704214 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

It is called an idiot tax and on-line poker has much in common with real poker as a ferret does with a tuna.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 22:02 | 1704246 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

on-line poker. the virtual Brooklyn Bridge.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 21:36 | 1704187 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Meh....just play strip poker.  Nothing to lose but virginity, and everybody wins! :D

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 21:18 | 1704175 Dick Fitz
Dick Fitz's picture

The author is merely using poker as an example. The regulatory state has created so many barriers to entry, red tape hoops and potential legal issues that many entrepreneurs are scared to create new businesses. Why start any biz in the US when (especially if you are online) 3rd world countries make it far more economically viable. Who would build a new factory in the US today, knowing that the laws are so complex, unfair and byzantine?

If the gov't doesn't stop strangling entrepreneurship, the US will be a failed state, 3rd world country in 10 or 20 years.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 22:21 | 1704284 EconMatters
EconMatters's picture

Hit the nail on the head!

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 21:15 | 1704171 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

The poker industry is a ponzi scheme: it depends on a continuing inflow of newbies and suckers to fund the players higher up.  Which is why I refuse to ever play.

 

Anyway...what exactly does this "industry" produce?

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 07:34 | 1704739 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

it produces the freedom that one can chose to do what one wants.....

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 07:00 | 1704709 purpledinoz
purpledinoz's picture

And what exactly does professional sports produce?

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 07:05 | 1704712 Sambo
Sambo's picture

It is all up in the mind - pleasure!  and pain.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 21:07 | 1704150 baltbear
baltbear's picture

The only "jobs" that can be created in poker are funded by the house edge.

  That's been known since Bernoullii.

 Government, on the other hand, exists to create the infrasstructure in which other edges are created.

 I would be amused--by which i mean bored--to hear a response from the author as to why he is not advocating government run poker.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 21:30 | 1704192 CH1
CH1's picture

Government exists to create the infrasstructure in which other edges are created.

Government exists to tax and collect. All else is justification for the gullible.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 21:28 | 1704190 CH1
CH1's picture

 I would be amused-to hear a response from the author as to why he is not advocating government run poker.

I'll take a stab at it:

So that the crooks who run the games are not protected by sovereign immunity.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 20:59 | 1704134 Raymond_K_Hessel
Raymond_K_Hessel's picture

I was addicted to online poker, and while I still love the game, I'm not sure we need more people getting into it. When looked at from an economics perspective, I don't see how you can advocate poker. Yes it creates jobs, but who pays for them? It's largely people who can't really afford to be. The vast majority of poker players lose money. Poker doesn't create anything for the economy of value. It wastes resources that could be productive.

I was very upset when the gov shut down online poker earlier this year, but I'm actually kind of glad that they did. I've moved on and have realized that there are much better ways for me to spend my time than humping a poker table, like reading ZH for instance. Instead of wasting my money on poker, I invest in PMs to prepare for the future. I'd rather live in a country where capital is invested wisely rather than squandered on a game. Besides, have you spent much time in a poker room? They're nasty, depressing places and the people who work there don't seem to want to be there.

I'd say encouraging poker would be more likely to increase unemployment in the long run as a result of people wasting time developing a useless skill and squandering their human capital as well as their $.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 21:25 | 1704184 Dick Fitz
Dick Fitz's picture

Raymond, as long as they are using their own money in a way that makes them happy, what business is it of yours? How would you feel if alcohol was made illegal again?

If gambling, prostitution and drugs were 100% legal then "organized crime" (well, except the crime coming from DC/Wall St) would disappear. Northern Mexico would become safer, 20% of young black men wouldn't be in jail/parole/probation, cops would be (slightly) less corrupt, and the world would be better.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 23:09 | 1704359 Raymond_K_Hessel
Raymond_K_Hessel's picture

Fitz, I totally get that, but there's a difference between making drugs or alcohol illegal or making poker legal. Interestingly, I'm for the legalization of drugs (and the continued legalization of alcohol), but against the legalization of poker (and I'd like to make tobacco illegal as I think that's the one thing the we could successfully prohibit) or expanding it's legalized status as I think it's a waste of time and resources. I don't think drugs are good, but the cost of prohibiting them is monumental. I don't think we can afford to probit drugs. We can afford to prohibit poker. I'm not talking about home games. If people want to play at home, let them. But it's easy to say that you cannot start a poker room.

I still play from time to time, and I love the game. But, I have a love hate relationship with poker. I guess I'm against things that ring of "service economy" and want a productive society that makes things that people want. I guess that's all I was trying to say.

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 07:58 | 1704770 Are you kidding
Are you kidding's picture

How about we just stop "prohibiting" things that don't hurt anyone?  That will reduce the cost of enforcement.  How about you stop telling me what I can and can't do...OK?  If everyone would mind their OWN business, we'd have much less crap to put up with.  These bored ladies and their crusades...give them something to do with their time instead of limiting more of my freedoms.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 21:32 | 1704198 CH1
CH1's picture

Right. There are many things that I try to talk people out of (like gambling), but would not use violence against.

All laws are authorizations of violence.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 21:15 | 1704170 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

It sounds like you're talking about the stock market.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 19:46 | 1703982 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

Our politicians that the americans put into power are a reflection of the american people.  So if it looks like the US govt. is dysfunctional in their application and thinking just turn a mirror to our society and you'll have an answer.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!