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The U.S. Handling of the Poker Industry Is Another Example of Anti-Jobs Policy

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By EconMatters

Americans have been card players for ages, whether it is playing card games after Thanksgiving Dinner with Grandma for pennies or watching Doyle Brunson play in the World Series of Poker on ESPN, Poker has become as main stream as college football on Saturday afternoons for Americans.

However, the US governmental approach towards the industry for the last decade serves as another example of why the economy is struggling with 10% unemployment.

Sowing The Seeds

A country just doesn`t wake up one day and voilà! there is no economic activity and thus a lack of jobs to sustain a growing population. Rather, the seeds for economic growth and activity are a byproduct of years of government providing the right kind of pro business environment for various types of industries to thrive and grow and build a network of derivative jobs related to each industry. Think in terms of a long range type of fertilizer paving the way for bumper crops of economic job creation 5 and 10 years in the future.

Poker - A Game of Skill

There is much debate whether poker is a game of skill or just pure luck like playing Dice games or the Lottery. It is a game of skill, and at different levels players have been able to find grind out a living for decades. It evolves like any other industry as technology and information changes occur leading certain strategies antiquated and players adjust or move on to other professions.

Not unlike trading strategies or the retail industry, players come and go, and some players outlast the competition, and make a consistent living for decades. Think in terms of the NFL skill-set, many youths play football in High School, and even college, but only a very select few are able to make a consistent career out of the profession, the truly exceptional. And we wouldn`t call football players just lucky, rather they are the best of the best. It takes the exceptional level talents at a given buy-in level to enable a competitive edge to exist and a consistent win-rate and thus professional designation.

However, unlike football many recreational players are able to play the game often alongside the professionals and derive a substantial entertainment benefit that adds positively to their lives in terms of happiness at a social level. Think in terms of bowling, going to the movies, fishing, or playing pool. It serves as a social outlet where they try to master the challenge of winning the hand against other opponents.

The game is actually quite popular, and people like playing it as a social activity, and if the government would start providing better fertilizer, the industry could support an entire supply chain of industry related jobs, and even provide much needed tax revenue for reducing our growing federal deficit.

Job Creation Strategy With Poker

First of all, poker needs to be legalized, regulated, and taxed at a very minimal level. It needs to be legalized so that businesses can start up card rooms which cater to recreational and professional players across the country, not just select states like California, Louisiana, and Las Vegas.  

This would create jobs for waitresses, dealers, floor personnel, bar tenders, cooks, dishwashers, cleaning, maintenance, marketing, and managerial jobs in a direct fashion. But in addition to the direct jobs, there are advertising needs which create indirect jobs in online advertising, as well as in radio, television, and the print media. Plus, all these card rooms opening create jobs for carpenters, remodelers, construction jobs.

Then the companies that supply products to the industry like poker tables, shuffle machines, big screen electronics and entertainment systems, furniture, appliances and lighting benefit as well. All these companies will then hire additional personnel to meet the increasing demand for their products.

I could go on and on with the amount of direct and indirect jobs that can be created by government getting out of the way and letting the market forces take off and really synergistically create jobs for an industry that finally has the constraints to growth removed.

Contractionary Policies Are Counterproductive  

This is how you spur the economic growth engine, not just in poker, but in many other industries as well, by giving an industry all it needs to succeed, and then getting out of the way, and letting market forces decide if it is a legitimate industry worthy of capital allocation. If the demand is there, then businesses will spring up, jobs will be created, and the economy as a whole will benefit, and you get economic expansion.

The policies of the US government for much of the last decade are contractionary for many types of industries and small businesses from both a legislative and tax perspective and a strategic philosophical shift could help alleviate the burden currently being placed upon many of these industries like the Poker Industry.

Balance With Proper Regulation & Taxes

The poker Industry could benefit from regulation, but not coercive regulation, but just to provide a regular third party auditing function to maintain that the games are run efficiently and fair. A consistent maximum rake across the United States in both the physical and online domains would be an important type of regulation that could be positive for the Industry.

In terms of tax, businesses should be taxed similar to any other business, and not have a “sin” type tax or any other special poker tax designation which would stifle growth instead of help foster growth for the industry. The government usually gets it wrong with tax policy, just implement a reasonable level tax rate, and get out of the way.

If demand for the industry or product is pervasive, the tax revenue will follow. Then this becomes self-fulfilling as a given industry starts to flourish, this attracts more participants, the industry growth accelerates, and so does the tax revenue for the government. Too high taxes have the exact opposite effect, it is contractionary in nature, as it limits participants, slows growth, and reduces tax revenue over the long run.

Online Poker Embraced

Finally, yes online poker needs to be fully embraced in this country. This means having the same legal rights and status as the legalized physical domains of casinos so that all the foreign based operations, jobs, and taxable earnings are repatriated back to the US where most of their customers are located.  The entire Full Tilt Poker fiasco could have been avoided, we wouldn`t have American citizens relocating to Canada to play on Poker Stars, and the DOJ heavily involved in dictating whether a business succeeds or fails.

Sure, there are limited cases where an underage kid goes into debt playing online poker by getting around the safeguards. But the response shouldn`t be to effectively close down an industry just because of some failings. The response should be to address ways to better deal with these types of cases, not just get rid of the entire industry. If we applied the same standard to every industry that had failings, we would be left without many productive and socially acceptable industries.

Pro-Business or Get Out Of The Way!

When we start thinking about legislative policy initiatives or changes, we need to ask ourselves this important question first and foremost:

“Is this going to create or destroy jobs and industries?” 

This is actually a much more important philosophical shift than one would imagine on first blush, having the right pro-business attitude towards all industries and businesses creates animal spirits in the economy, think in terms of the great industrial revolution where many new business ventures were allowed to flourish, make mistakes, fail, and succeed at the same time.

The era had the right business entrepreneurial spirit to create jobs and industries out of ideas because the pro business climate was fostered not hindered. This is a radical change from the legislative and governmental philosophical climate that is in place today and being created by policy makers. Get out of the way, and let market forces take hold and create jobs in many places, diverse industries, and non standard businesses that don`t need governmental subsidies to flourish all on their own.

Washington just might be surprised how this type of approach feeds on itself, as success in one industry, leads to the creation of an entire new industry, creating even more jobs, and before you know it, standard industries like retail and housing are being picked up along the way, and voila we have a booming economy once again in the United States.

It’s the Economy, Stupid!

The Poker Industry has been held back by governmental policy over the last decade, many jobs were lost, and much more were never created, all because of failed policy on behalf of lawmakers. Ask yourselves this question did policy initiatives hinder or foster job creation for the Poker Industry?

And like the Poker Industry, you can apply this same question to many other industries in the United States. The fed have done almost all it can do at this point, and maybe even too much at times, but it is about time that legislative and fiscal policy start doing a whole lot more to foster economic growth and job creation by adopting an industry stimulative approach as opposed to their current contractionary, stifling approach.

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Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:27 | 1711048 Let them all fail
Let them all fail's picture

Man this shit is annoying, sure there is an element of luck, but there is an element of luck in everything.  Should baseball be outlawed because sometimes the ball takes funny hops or the wind carries it out of the park when it should be a flyout?  Of course not.  Or maybe we should outlaw business altogether because so much is based on luck of having the economy do well.  And don't even get me started on the stock market, it is gambling more than poker could ever be.  Poker is not gambling unless you are stupid and don't know how to play, get over it you stupid assholes.

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 18:42 | 1706118 sethstorm
sethstorm's picture

Pro-Business or Get Out Of The Way!

Crony capitalism's goal - not to be confused with anything that gives freedom to people that choose not to be a business.

Or do you not mind having business being able to be judge, jury, and executioner to anyone that opposes them?

 

 

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 12:14 | 1705243 patb
patb's picture

Poker is not a value added industry. All it is is a redistribution industry. 

If you spend all day at the poker table, no product is created, no service is provided.

Merely the better players take the money of the poorer players.

 

Funny, isn't that what the NY Banks do?

 

 

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 00:55 | 1706742 vjmali
vjmali's picture

Going by your reasoning what is a value add of any game?

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 11:01 | 1705058 Mitzibitzi
Mitzibitzi's picture

Leaving aside the Poker theme to the article, which I see as merely an illustration of one potential industry (even if it IS one that's bound to wind up as a total scam to fleece suckers), good points are raised about the fact that governments typically impose taxation and regulation which stifles small - medium business.

I personally would like to set up a business in aquaculture farming.

For those who don't know, that's cycling the water from a tank where you're raising edible fish (typically talapia, yellow perch, trout and similar) through a series of growbeds in which you have plants. Bacteria in the gravel-filled growbeds breaks down the waste products from the fish water and turn them into nitrates which feed the plants. Simultaneously, that cleans the water, which is drained back to the tank. Almost totally closed cycle, requiring only feed for the fish (which you can grow, also) and a small amount of top up water to replace what's lost through evaporation. Also, the plants can be planted closer together than they would be in soil and grow upto 3 times faster due to the high power liquid fertilizer they receive 24 hours a day.

A guy in Missouri runs a non-profit aquaculture food co-op that grows a million pounds weight, per year, of plants and fish on only 3 acres. The polytunnels are heated by waste heat from composters inside. And the compost is sold to other farmers / gardeners who grow spuds, carrots and other stuff that work less well in hydroponic growing environments, which pays the electric bill (a few fluorescent lights and half a dozen water pumps, is all).

I've got a couple of small scale aquaculture setups running here and it's both fun and easy. And there's nothing to beat a really fresh tomato you just pulled off the plant.

I asked myself a while ago whether I could do it on a larger scale for a living. Did the sums and figure I'd need about an acre of land and about £10,000 for equipment. There's plenty of land for lease around here at quite cheap rates and I can save the start up money in under a year if I quit going out to eat, kept my current car a while longer and generally trimmed the sails on spending. I don't have any debt to speak of, either, which helps.

Would I start this up, in today's economic and political climate? Not a fucking chance! I'd spend more time and money trying to comply with a million and one bullshit rules and regulations than I ever would growing food.

Government needs to step back out of the way and let people do stuff that benefits (obviously!) themselves and the local AND national economy! Government IS the problem!

The one possibility I have is that I live in Wales, not England. The Welsh Assembly is slightly less retarded and make grants available to innovative start-ups like the one I propose. IF I can pry loose some of that money, I might be in business doing something that's fun, environmentally friendly, keeps people fed and will probably even create a couple of jobs in the fullness of time. I've even got a verbal agreement with the local Agriculture College that I'll allow them to use my premises as a teaching venue for students, if I can swing the funding.

And that's currently a very big IF!

 

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 19:14 | 1706166 ping
ping's picture

Hi M, did some rooting around (and you thought I'd forgotten? For shame!) Looks like the station(s) may be an addition to the Automatic Urban and Rural Monitoring Network (AURN) http://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/networks/find-sites. Got an image of the monitor at http://www.welshairquality.co.uk/moreinfo.php?lg=&n_action=monitoring&t=.... No new sites are listed for September 2011, but maybe that's simply 'cos they hadn't been plugged in yet. Turns out they like using rural locations for baseline data.

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 10:54 | 1705044 Atlantis Consigliore
Atlantis Consigliore's picture

I told you Ace, in CASINO,  its all about the dollars, hey Frankie, over

hear,  we can make a deal and cut the deficit just raise taxes LOL....

 

suckers, they will beleive anything, the sheeple.

all about the f****n dollars,   the rest is talk, politics,  

now where are those Solyndra guys holes in the desert i saved for them?

joking....

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 09:59 | 1704965 I did it by Occident
I did it by Occident's picture

"Pro-Business or Get Out Of The Way!"

Pro-Free Market or Get Out Of The Way!

 

there, fixed it for ya!  :)

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 08:26 | 1704809 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

This means having the same legal rights and status as the legalized physical domains of casinos so that all the foreign based operations, jobs, and taxable earnings are repatriated back to the US where most of their customers are located.  The entire Full Tilt Poker fiasco could have been avoided

So that's how the Full Tilt Poker "fiasco" could have been avoided...

FAIL

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 06:58 | 1704708 g speed
g speed's picture

If you think this is about gambling--you are missing the point of the whole blah--- its about taxes(extortion).

 "A consistent maximum rake across the United States in both the physical and online domains would be an important type of regulation that could be positive for the Industry"

Its as if I ask the question(I've said this many times) "what give you the right to cross my rivers on my bridges"?   If you argue that you have the right to do blah blah then you have argued the point and have validated the premise that I own the rivers and bridges--

In the same way if you argue about the gambling that is used as mis-focus to somehow make a point about "what"-- you accept the premise that "govts need a maximum rake".

These kinds of blahs need to be on this site-remember this is fight club and you need to stand outside the door till you get it-- just a little training on how to think about the propaganda your going to get everyday of you life

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 06:19 | 1704680 NuYawkFrankie
NuYawkFrankie's picture

Don't get me started on Govt & gambling.

Here in NYC the OTB was actually on the verge of going bust a few years back and - yes, you guessed it! - needed a bailout!

How a monoply gambling enterprise, which makes up its own odds can go bust is something I'll never be able to fathom.

Of course having its upper echelons stuffed to the gills with political hacks & cronies - of the likes of Guiliani, Cuomo, Dinkins etc - skimming everything that wasnt nailed down, didn't exactly help matters. I won't bore you with the issue of no-show, 6-figure - with perks - patronage jobs etc. Al Capone himself would probably hang his head in shame at being asscoiated with such an operation.

I dunno whether goodie-two-shoes Boomberg has cleaned it up in recent years (though I doubt he'd want to get his fingernails soiled). Anyway havent set foot in one of those OTB cesspits in years - as I have the services of my own (very respectable) turf-accountant when the need arises.

And while I'm at it - is there a bigger rip-off known to humanity than these freekin State Lotteries - more of a chance of being beamed-up & cavity-searched by Lizard people. Here in good ol' NY I'm surpised you come away with anything even if you do win - what with all the freekin taxes, surcharges, penalties for up-front payouts etc etc etc.

Yes, I can confirm that Carlo Gambino is spinning in his grave - and is turning a bright shade of green.

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 06:20 | 1704679 NuYawkFrankie
NuYawkFrankie's picture

Don't get me started on Govt & gambling.

Here in NYC the OTB was actually on the verge of going bust a few years back and - yes, you guessed it! - needed a bailout!

How a monoply gambling enterprise, which makes up its own odds can go bust is something I'll never be able to fathom.

Of course having its upper echelons stuffed to the gills with political hacks & cronies - of the likes of Guiliani, Cuomo, Dinkins etc - skimming everything that wasnt nailed down, didn't exactly help matters. I won't bore you with the issue of no-show, 6-figure - with perks - patronage jobs etc. Al Capone himself would probably hang his head in shame at being asscoiated with such an operation.

I dunno whether goodie-two-shoes Boomberg has cleaned it up in recent years (though I doubt he'd want to get his fingernails soiled). Anyway havent set foot in one of those OTB cesspits in years - as I have the services of my own (very respectable) turf-accountant when the need arises.

And while I'm at it - is there a bigger rip-off known to humanity than these freekin State Lotteries - more of a chance of being beamed-up & cavity-searched by Lizard people. Here in good ol' NY I'm surpised you come away with anything even if you do win - what with all the freekin taxes, surcharges, penalties for up-front payouts etc etc etc.

Yes, I can confirm that Carlo Gambino is spinning in his grave - and is turning a bright shade of green.

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 04:52 | 1704644 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

This Ponzi poker bullshit is another example of OBAMO Misdirection.

Ladies and Gentlemen, the Online poker industry did not destroy the US economy, Ponzi or no Ponzi.

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 05:49 | 1704665 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

I believe a form of government sanctioned gambling did the trick.  If we could only consign degenerate gamblers to on-line poker, maybe we wouldn't have a ponzi economy.

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 00:35 | 1704479 Buzz Hacksaw
Buzz Hacksaw's picture

Poker and Pot and many, many other things should be as legals as say broccoli. Back the f**k off and leave me the f**k alone. This is not what we hire govnmt to do. This thread should not be taking place!

Buzz

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 23:28 | 1704390 hivekiller
hivekiller's picture

Gambling is not a productive activity. Legalizing it is like legalizing prostitution. It creates jobs but really crappy jobs. Most of those playing poker will lose their shirts. Why not legalize child porn while we're at it. That will also generate jobs.

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 06:57 | 1704707 purpledinoz
purpledinoz's picture

So the government should decide what is productive and what is not productive? Professional sports is not productive, is it? Just a bunch of dudes hitting/kicking/throwing balls around while people watch and get drunk. Why not make sports illegal? Sports cars just waste gas and cost a lot of money, totally unproductive, should be illegal too. In fact, house plants should be illegal too, they just waste water and space. Damn, I can think of a hell of a lot of other things that are unproductive and there should be illegal.

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 02:31 | 1704582 mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

The really harmful gambling takes place at investment banks/hedge funds.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 23:43 | 1704411 SeventhCereal
SeventhCereal's picture

I think you have a crappy job.  Your comment shows your simple-minded thinking, I would never hire you.

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 02:40 | 1704589 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Gambling is shit.  Legalized theft from morons.   The online poker companies appear to have hd a lot of ponzi scams and looting going on.

LOL! Just like the movie Casino.  The counting room was skimming the skim going back to the Mafia bosses in Kansas City.  No honor among thieves.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 23:58 | 1704431 hivekiller
hivekiller's picture

Well thank the gods for that. What business are you in? Slaughterhouses? Brothels? Heroin dealing?

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 23:13 | 1704366 GoldmanSux
GoldmanSux's picture

It is well known Washington is looking at legalizing online gambling as a job creation/taxation measure. Their efforts right now are to root out the existing encumbants. To be followed by state sanctioned 'entrepreneurs'. I think Steve Wynn knows he won't be one of them.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 22:59 | 1704344 Lmo Mutton
Lmo Mutton's picture

We don't need no stinking jobs.

just keep the check coming.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 22:07 | 1704257 TarpMe
TarpMe's picture

Yesssss A) we need more people wasting their life transferring money to each other, adding no value, B) we need more waitress and bartender jobs. These engineering positions in cubicle city is a waste of a life. C) Where did this douchbag come from. I know ZeroHedge has to pay the bills somehow, but this is like disinformation. Even radio stations have their standards. Can TylerD or someone take responsibility for how much stupidity or ignorance they will allow in the paid spot?

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 22:20 | 1704280 Market Analyst
Market Analyst's picture

Your missing the point of the article, Poker is a metaphor for the anti-business approach Washington takes towards many small businesses, and just business in general.

Secondly, We have a balanced world with many types of jobs: To believe that everyone should be a Doctor is absurd, let the market decide what types of jobs the world actually finds useful and needs.

This must provide value or produce some "good" for society argument is invalid: Let the market decide the value or benefit to society, not some dictator of moral virtue, give me a break!

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 02:43 | 1704592 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Right now - aren't the casinos getting Uncle Sam to put the online casinos out of business?  The bricks & mortar casinos could not do the technology.  Uncle Sam goldstein puts the online casinos out of business, they then legalize online gaming for the casinos.  This is going on right now.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 22:04 | 1704248 cramers_tears
cramers_tears's picture

Ron Paul wants to let you play poker 'til you puke!

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 07:48 | 1704755 Are you kidding
Are you kidding's picture

Ron Paul wants you to be ABLE to do whatever YOU would like to do...until you puke if that is YOUR choice.

Get government out of our lives!

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 21:32 | 1704193 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Hey shouldn't someone have the liberty to get slowly parted from all of their cash? Likewise, shouldn't I have the liberty to fleece any sucker that I can of their cash?

Seriously, was this article payed for by whatever PAC/Lobbyist/Thinktank is in bed with on-line poker?... Enough great rich quick schemes already, it is partly why this country is where it is now.

This article is complete unadulterated bullshit....

BTW, it is "sowing the seeds".... at least get your fucking cliches straight

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 21:57 | 1704233 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American compulsive gambler." Or his gullibility.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 21:44 | 1704207 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

at least in poker , you have a chance, as opposed to the slot machines ,which legal in a lot more places than poker rooms

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 21:49 | 1704214 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

It is called an idiot tax and on-line poker has much in common with real poker as a ferret does with a tuna.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 22:02 | 1704246 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

on-line poker. the virtual Brooklyn Bridge.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 21:36 | 1704187 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Meh....just play strip poker.  Nothing to lose but virginity, and everybody wins! :D

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 21:18 | 1704175 Dick Fitz
Dick Fitz's picture

The author is merely using poker as an example. The regulatory state has created so many barriers to entry, red tape hoops and potential legal issues that many entrepreneurs are scared to create new businesses. Why start any biz in the US when (especially if you are online) 3rd world countries make it far more economically viable. Who would build a new factory in the US today, knowing that the laws are so complex, unfair and byzantine?

If the gov't doesn't stop strangling entrepreneurship, the US will be a failed state, 3rd world country in 10 or 20 years.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 22:21 | 1704284 EconMatters
EconMatters's picture

Hit the nail on the head!

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 21:15 | 1704171 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

The poker industry is a ponzi scheme: it depends on a continuing inflow of newbies and suckers to fund the players higher up.  Which is why I refuse to ever play.

 

Anyway...what exactly does this "industry" produce?

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 07:34 | 1704739 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

it produces the freedom that one can chose to do what one wants.....

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 07:00 | 1704709 purpledinoz
purpledinoz's picture

And what exactly does professional sports produce?

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 07:05 | 1704712 Sambo
Sambo's picture

It is all up in the mind - pleasure!  and pain.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 21:07 | 1704150 baltbear
baltbear's picture

The only "jobs" that can be created in poker are funded by the house edge.

  That's been known since Bernoullii.

 Government, on the other hand, exists to create the infrasstructure in which other edges are created.

 I would be amused--by which i mean bored--to hear a response from the author as to why he is not advocating government run poker.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 21:30 | 1704192 CH1
CH1's picture

Government exists to create the infrasstructure in which other edges are created.

Government exists to tax and collect. All else is justification for the gullible.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 21:28 | 1704190 CH1
CH1's picture

 I would be amused-to hear a response from the author as to why he is not advocating government run poker.

I'll take a stab at it:

So that the crooks who run the games are not protected by sovereign immunity.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 20:59 | 1704134 Raymond_K_Hessel
Raymond_K_Hessel's picture

I was addicted to online poker, and while I still love the game, I'm not sure we need more people getting into it. When looked at from an economics perspective, I don't see how you can advocate poker. Yes it creates jobs, but who pays for them? It's largely people who can't really afford to be. The vast majority of poker players lose money. Poker doesn't create anything for the economy of value. It wastes resources that could be productive.

I was very upset when the gov shut down online poker earlier this year, but I'm actually kind of glad that they did. I've moved on and have realized that there are much better ways for me to spend my time than humping a poker table, like reading ZH for instance. Instead of wasting my money on poker, I invest in PMs to prepare for the future. I'd rather live in a country where capital is invested wisely rather than squandered on a game. Besides, have you spent much time in a poker room? They're nasty, depressing places and the people who work there don't seem to want to be there.

I'd say encouraging poker would be more likely to increase unemployment in the long run as a result of people wasting time developing a useless skill and squandering their human capital as well as their $.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 21:25 | 1704184 Dick Fitz
Dick Fitz's picture

Raymond, as long as they are using their own money in a way that makes them happy, what business is it of yours? How would you feel if alcohol was made illegal again?

If gambling, prostitution and drugs were 100% legal then "organized crime" (well, except the crime coming from DC/Wall St) would disappear. Northern Mexico would become safer, 20% of young black men wouldn't be in jail/parole/probation, cops would be (slightly) less corrupt, and the world would be better.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 23:09 | 1704359 Raymond_K_Hessel
Raymond_K_Hessel's picture

Fitz, I totally get that, but there's a difference between making drugs or alcohol illegal or making poker legal. Interestingly, I'm for the legalization of drugs (and the continued legalization of alcohol), but against the legalization of poker (and I'd like to make tobacco illegal as I think that's the one thing the we could successfully prohibit) or expanding it's legalized status as I think it's a waste of time and resources. I don't think drugs are good, but the cost of prohibiting them is monumental. I don't think we can afford to probit drugs. We can afford to prohibit poker. I'm not talking about home games. If people want to play at home, let them. But it's easy to say that you cannot start a poker room.

I still play from time to time, and I love the game. But, I have a love hate relationship with poker. I guess I'm against things that ring of "service economy" and want a productive society that makes things that people want. I guess that's all I was trying to say.

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 07:58 | 1704770 Are you kidding
Are you kidding's picture

How about we just stop "prohibiting" things that don't hurt anyone?  That will reduce the cost of enforcement.  How about you stop telling me what I can and can't do...OK?  If everyone would mind their OWN business, we'd have much less crap to put up with.  These bored ladies and their crusades...give them something to do with their time instead of limiting more of my freedoms.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 21:32 | 1704198 CH1
CH1's picture

Right. There are many things that I try to talk people out of (like gambling), but would not use violence against.

All laws are authorizations of violence.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 21:15 | 1704170 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

It sounds like you're talking about the stock market.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 19:46 | 1703982 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

Our politicians that the americans put into power are a reflection of the american people.  So if it looks like the US govt. is dysfunctional in their application and thinking just turn a mirror to our society and you'll have an answer.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!