This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

The Utah Monetary Declaration of Freedom From the Tyranny of Central Bankers

smartknowledgeu's picture





 

A very important document, the Utah Monetary Declaration is now circulating among the citizens of Utah. Though citizens of Utah are attempting to introduce the basic principles of this declaration into the Utah legislature, every citizen of every US state and every citizen of every country in the world should read the below document and note the similarities of the Utah Monetary Declaration to the US Coinage Act of 1792, which protected the freedoms of US citizens until they were destroyed by Central Bankers. You will note that Alexander Hamilton, one of the founding fathers of the Republic of America, penned the US Coinage Act of 1792. Alexander Hamilton was so adamantly opposed to the process by which Central Banks create money today that when he wrote the US Coinage Act of 1972, he believed the no other threat other than the severe penalty of death would prevent bankers from deliberately debasing the value of coined money, and thus, usurping the peoples' freedoms. Today, I’m quite certain that Central Bankers would label the very man that helped found the Republic of America, were he still alive, as a terrorist, for his expressed ideals of freedom oppose all ideologies and principles for which a Central Banker stands.

 

Alexander Hamilton equated essential freedoms with the preservation of the purchasing power of all money. Debase the value of money and we will lose our freedoms. So then, what does the Central Banker deliberately directed, massive debasement of all major fiat currencies in the world bode for future generations? This is precisely why we have recently witnessed the birth of uprisings all around the world – Greece, Iceland, Ireland, the United States, the United Kingdom, Spain, Portugal, Egypt, and Tunisia just to name a few. As we all know, the world’s reserve currency, the US dollar, has now lost about 97% to 98% of its value and purchasing power since private bankers created the US Federal Reserve in 1913. Say what you will about the death throes of the Euro but the US dollar is hanging by a thread right now as well.

 

I urge everyone to:

 

(1) Read the below Utah Monetary Declaration;

(2) Discuss it with your neighbors and friends; 

(3) Research the parts you may not understand so that you may better understand the tyranny and complete immorality of our current monetary system; and

(4) Learn why Alexander Hamilton believed the soundness of money to be inseparable from freedom to such an degree that he advocated not imprisonment, but death, for the deliberate act of devaluing US coins.

 

The freedom to choose the form of money we can use in our daily lives is inseparable from the ability to live one’s life as a free man and a free woman. Monetary freedom is inseparable from all other freedoms in this life. What we have today is monetary enslavement. Many of us have lived our lives believing the lies and propaganda about our current, extremely oppressive monetary system because powerful banking families have deviously inserted these lies into the textbooks they feed into our global educational system. Other times, they just insert professors that they have paid-off to spread their propaganda directly into “esteemed” (and I use that word very lightly) institutions like Harvard University, Princeton University and the University of Chicago to pollute the minds of millions of impressionable youth. It is time we help one another wake up to the truth about the utter disgrace that we call our modern banking and monetary system. If we wish to stand in solidarity with our brothers and sisters around the world in restoring our essential freedoms, the first pro-active step every citizen in this world must take is to research and learn why the debasement of monetary value is a direct attack on the freedoms of every citizen in every district, in every province, in every state in every country in the world.

 

As many people already know, Utah Governor Gary Herbert signed HB317, the Utah Legal Tender Act into law earlier this year in March of 2011. Though well reported by the mainstream media as an act that made Utah the first US state to accept gold and silver coins as legal tender, this interpretation was erroneous as all federally minted gold and silver coins have always been accepted as legal tender at their face value in every state inside the United States. The Utah Legal Tender Act did not change this important Central Bank restriction on the use of gold and silver coins as money and as a competitor to their fiat currencies. In the state of Utah, a one-oz gold American Eagle coin can still only legally be used at its face value of USD$50 in monetary transactions and not at its current US bullion dealer price of about USD$1,740. There is no fool that is going to spend a coin valued at USD$1,740 to buy USD$50  of groceries, so even though the US government states that gold coins and silver coins can be used as legal tender, that declaration is the equivalent of telling someone imprisoned in solitary confinement that he is free to leave the penitentiary any time he wants as long as he can avoid being shot and killed by the guards if he attempts to escape. Thus, the Utah Legal Tender Act HB317 truly accomplished nothing in the fight for freedom other than to exempt all sales of gold and silver coins from the state capital gains tax.

 

However, there is a much more important declaration now circulating among the citizens of Utah that deserves our attention, the Utah Monetary Declaration, the full text of which I have reproduced below. This much more important declaration, if it can reach the Utah legislature and eventually be passed into law, would be infinitely more important than the Utah Legal Tender Act for it would grant Utah the power “to monetize gold and silver coin as an alternative, voluntary medium of exchange, and as an effective check and balance against debasement of the national currency by the national government which is constitutionally precluded from demonetizing state legal tender, through disparate tax treatment, discriminatory regulation, the threat of suppression and seizure, or otherwise.” One of the essential tenets of this declaration is the following: “As an essential element of true liberty and of the pursuit of happiness in a free society, all people enjoy the inherent and unalienable right to lawfully acquire, hold and use as a medium of exchange whatever form or forms of money they may prefer, including especially gold and silver coin.” This declaration is attempting to enforce the mandates of the US Constitution that the private owners of the US Central Bank, the Federal Reserve, have directly violated for nearly 100 years. The Utah Monetary Declaration also attempts to re-establish the freedoms first established by one of the first laws to regulate coinage in the United States, the US Coinage Act of 1792. The most important sections of the US Coinage Act of 1792 were Section 14 and Section 19 as reprinted below:

 

Section 14. And be it further enacted, that it shall be lawful for any person or persons to bring to the said mint gold and silver bullion in order to their being coined; and that the bullion so brought shall be there assayed and coined as speedily as may be after the receipt thereof, and free of expense to the person or persons by whom the same shall have been brought.

 

Section 19. And be it further enacted, That if any of the gold or silver coins which shall be struck or coined at the said mint shall be debased or made worse as to the proportion of the fine gold or fine silver therein contained, or shall be of less weight or value than the same out to be pursuant to the directions of this act, through the default or with the connivance of any of the officers or persons who shall be employed at the said mint, for the purpose of profit or gain, or otherwise with a fraudulent intent, and if any of the said officers or persons shall embezzle any of the metals which shall at any time be committed to their charge for the purpose of being coined, or any of the coins which shall be struck or coined at the said mint, every such officer or person who shall commit any or either of the said offenses, shall be deemed guilty of felony, and shall suffer death.

 

The Utah Monetary Declaration


WHEREAS, money, as a medium of exchange, a store of value, and a unit of measure promotes economic activity, growth and productivity by facilitating specialization and trade, the accumulation of wealth and its long-term investment, as well as accountability in setting prices, tracking progress, and settling accounts;

WHEREAS, natural money – precious metal coin – by virtue of its inherent qualities of recognizability, measurability, uniformity, divisibility, durability, portability and scarcity has reliably retained its purchasing power, notwithstanding periodic fluctuations, over the centuries and millennia of human history, serving as an effective medium of exchange and store of value often without any governmental declaration to require, legitimize or perpetuate its adoption and operation as such;

WHEREAS, sound money, by retaining stable purchasing power over time, best serves societal needs by substantially reducing the uncertainty of inflation risk for creditors and deflation risk for debtors as well as encouraging saving and investment among the general populace and benefiting the economic zone in which it circulates by stimulating the economy and by attracting foreign capital and commerce to the region;

WHEREAS, history attests that monopolistic monetary systems frequently engender currency debasement, resulting in serious consequences such as lost purchasing power, inequitable wealth redistributions, misallocation of productive resources, and chronic unemployment, and that, as the cornerstone of a free market and society, the right to choose, whether between suppliers of goods and services, political parties and candidates, or between alternative media of exchange, effectively promotes the general welfare;

WHEREAS, for the equal protection of all people, rich and poor, the open circulation of complementary and competing currencies should be fostered and promoted by every sovereign state, including those of The United States of America pursuant to their monetary powers (expressly reserved in article 1, § 10 and in the 10th amendment of the United States Constitution) to monetize gold and silver coin as an alternative, voluntary medium of exchange, and as an effective check and balance against debasement of the national currency by the national government which is constitutionally precluded from demonetizing state legal tender, through disparate tax treatment, discriminatory regulation, the threat of suppression and seizure, or otherwise;

NOW THEREFORE, we the undersigned hereby declare and affirm that:

1.     As an essential element of true liberty and of the pursuit of happiness in a free society, all people enjoy the inherent and unalienable right to lawfully acquire, hold and use as a medium of exchange whatever form or forms of money they may prefer, including especially gold and silver coin.

2.     All free and sovereign states bear the moral, political and legal obligation not only to refrain from debasing their own currencies (except under the most exigent circumstances) and from erecting barriers to the unfettered circulation of monies issued under the authority of their sovereign trading partners, but also to affirmatively defend and protect against fraud, counterfeiting, uttering, passing off, embezzlement, theft or neglect by requiring full transparency and accountability of all state chartered financial institutions.

3.     No tax liability nor any regulatory scheme promoting one form of money over another should apply to: (a)the holding of any form of money, in a financial institution or otherwise; (b) the exchange of one form of money for any other; or (c) the actual or imputed increase in the purchasing power of one form of money as compared to another.

4.     Except in the case of government assessed taxes, fees, duties, imposts, excises, dues, fines or penalties, the authority of government should never be used to compel payment of any obligation, contract or private debt in any specific form of money inconsistent with the parties’ written, verbal or implied agreement, or to
frustrate the intent of contracting parties or impair contractual obligations by invalidating the application of a discount or surcharge agreed to be dependent upon the particular medium of exchange or method of payment employed.

5.     The extent and composition of a person’s monetary holdings, including those on deposit with any financial institution, should not be subject to disclosure, search or seizure except upon adherence to due process safeguards such as requiring an adequate showing of probable cause to support the issuance by a court of competent jurisdiction of a lawful warrant or writ executed by legally authorized law enforcement officers.

 

We hereby urge business leaders, educators, members of the media, legislators, government officials as well as judicial and law enforcement officers to use their best combined efforts to reinstate and promote the legal and commercial framework necessary to establishing and maintaining well-functioning, sound monetary systems based on choice in
currency. The signatories hereto concur in the general principles expressed in the foregoing declaration notwithstanding specific reservations some may have as to how such principles should be interpreted and applied in practice.

 

We, at SmartKnowledgeU, who will continue to fight for monetary freedom in perpetuity as one of our most important missions, would add one more caveat to The Utah Monetary Declaration and it is this:

 

"Immediately outlaw the use of all gold and silver paper derivatives that allow bankers to create millions of imaginary paper ounces of gold and silver that do not physically exist in the real world, and thus allow bankers to defy the basic tenets of supply and demand in manipulating the spot price of gold and silver futures. If demand for physical gold and physical silver accelerates and if supplies of physical gold and physical silver diminish, falling gold and silver prices will no longer be legally accepted in light of these supply/demand dynamics. Let the price of gold and silver be dictated only by free market forces of the supply and demand for real physical ounces of gold and silver and not set by the behavior of a single ounce of paper gold and paper silver that represents nothing more than what a piece of paper fiat currency represents - which, of course, is nothing."

 

AMEN.

 


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 14:47 | Link to Comment johnjb32
johnjb32's picture

Although nothing less than the abolition of fractional reserve banking, compound interest and fiat currency will remove the power from the Infinite Growth paradigm which is killing us this move in Utah which deals with fiat currency is infinitely more useful than anything I have seen come out of the "Occupy" movement. It addresses one of the key issues squarely and head on. I'm not arguing that is a prefect or complete solution. And I certainly do not believe it can arrest collapse. But it is a way of freeing the people of Utah from the clutches of the bankers so that they might better use their resources to prepare for an inevitably localized economy.
 
Until you change the way money works, you change nothing. -- Michael C. Ruppert

 

http://www.collapsenet.com/154.html


Wed, 10/05/2011 - 14:21 | Link to Comment SILVERGEDDON
SILVERGEDDON's picture

Bullish on lead in little copper dinner jackets. What the well dressed man carries.

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 12:55 | Link to Comment J U D G E M E N T
J U D G E M E N T's picture

Garbage from the beggining.

An exception was made in item 2 that allows them to declare "extingent circumstances"

They decide what those are and what constitutes it.

So it now reads

2.     All free and sovereign states bear the moral, political and legal obligation not only to refrain from debasing their own currencies (except when we want to) from erecting barriers to the unfettered circulation of monies issued under the authority of their sovereign trading partners, but also to affirmatively defend and protect against fraud, counterfeiting, uttering, passing off, embezzlement, theft or neglect by requiring full transparency and accountability of all state chartered financial institutions.

providing discretionary privelige to:

- erect barriers to the unfettered circulation of monies issued under the authority of sovereign trading partners.

- not protect against fraud,counterfeiting,passing off(whatever that means),embezzlement, theft and neglect.

- not requiring full transparency and accountability of all state chartered financial institutions.

 

Wolf in sheeps clothing.  Most bills I read always have an out.  Sad but true.

 

 

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 12:39 | Link to Comment Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture

AFAIK, our ex-Governor of Utah John Huntsman is the only candidate to declare the real actual cost of fuel to the average citizen is $13-$15/gallon when accounting for military expeditions, cost to health, corruption payments to foreign oligarchs, etc.  He appears among the best qualified for the job, so of course he is ignored by the MSM (Satan worshippers, lovers of death).

Can you imagine the value of advertising time on Faux News Network during an interview with Huntsman informing the audience of the above news: Can I interest you in a lovely truck that gets 9mpg city driving @ $15/gallon gas? 

So, rather than persons filling up their gas guzzling SUV and truck paying $400+ for that privilege, military blood is spilled in foreign lands, innocents die, the rest of the nation pays for the difference in "defense" spending, and future generations pay the interest on the borrowed money for military exursions.

Such a deaaaaaaaal!       

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 12:23 | Link to Comment Lazane
Lazane's picture

my personal recollection is this view, Hyena banksters who for most of 50 yeas stubbornly lobbied, bribed and paved their way into wall streets Hyena's investments bringing down the separation provided in Glass Steagall not the alternative of Investments wanting Bankers. Most investment associates I worked with for over 10 years prior to 1999 wanted nothing at all to do with the criminal greedy banksters who were always attempting to form their own syndicates for purposes of financial gain on the particular issue or offering. 

The banksters have no one to blame but themselves

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 12:21 | Link to Comment Georgesblog
Georgesblog's picture

Things so basic as money have always defined personal integrity. When a society engages in perverting the definition of money, there is no moral high ground. We are now a nation that depends  on government to rob our neighbors, for our gain. The fiat currency has germinated and planted a system of private, corporate law that people accept as "the way it is". We are rapidly approaching the time when their are no national borders, only legal ones.The world is going it's own way, planting the seeds of it's destruction.

http://georgesblogforum.wordpress.com/2011/10/05/war-under-heaven-the-world-at-commerce-update-10052011/

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 12:07 | Link to Comment DosZap
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 11:39 | Link to Comment Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

+5, smartknowledgeu... 

"Immediately outlaw the use of all gold and silver paper derivatives that allow bankers to create millions of imaginary paper ounces of gold and silver that do not physically exist in the real world, and thus allow bankers to defy the basic tenets of supply and demand in manipulating the spot price of gold and silver futures."

Reinstate Glass-Steagall Now
Which outlaws all derivatives... and separates the Wall Street hyenas from Insurance industry investments (e.g. Travelers and Citi illegally approved by the criminal worm Rubinite) and real deposit commercial banks...

So TBTF can't leverage real economy investments....

And of course outlaw fractional reserve banking which is Fed cartel legalized counterfeiting...

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 00:13 | Link to Comment trendtrader377
trendtrader377's picture

Couldn't agree more. A gold backed fractional reserve system will get us back exactly where we are today. Using commodity money only limits printing to how much you can produce. But I can continue to decrease the reserve requirement to produce more deposit reciepts and therefore continually debase the currency. Have to get rid of fractional reserves, that is the primary method of debasement.

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 11:27 | Link to Comment Moocao
Moocao's picture

Zerohedgers

 

I have been on this forum for 3 weeks and some, and I have learned a lot from this community of sharp minded, no nonsense, no BS, extremely intelligent individuals, and I would like to thank Tyler for illuminating the many ills and greed and horrid practices currently plaguing our finances and our world. I am happy that my eyes are opened.

 

I also learned that this forum has many sharp minded and extremely pessimistic individuals who are waiting for the end to come, with no hope, no belief, and just waiting for the end to come

 

What is it isn't the end? So what if the financial community collapses? So what if the USA defaults? We are the fabric of society, you, me, every living soul in this domain is the fabric of our reality. I believe in a better future, even if we have to go through hell for awhile. I believe that with all of you, we can still make a better future. I sincerely thought about this for awhile. Debts, money, USD, Gold, Silver, etc. These are just stores of value of our individual labor, they do not represent us. We are the masters of our own fates. Not the Government, not the stock market, not Wall Street, we are our own masters, we create wealth and happiness. In the end, when it comes, we are the salt of the world, the light to shine the darkness around us

All of you have the pessimistic view of the future, and indeed it is grim. My first 2 weeks in this forum gave me nightmares of what the future portends. Famine, War, Pestilence, Death. All of them flashed their powers in front of my eyes. Then, call it inspiration, call it Hope, call it Faith, call it whatever, it came to me. We have survived World Wars, we have survived the threat of Fascism, Communism, Colonialism, we can still do so again. We are better educated than 1911. There are more enlightened individuals here than I can remember through my perusal of history books. We can do better than our forfathers still, even if our world crumbles, we can still build it back. Our current failed Order will come Chaos. Out of Chaos, however, will be Order. And we shall be the light within the darkness. We need to come up with a better system

I hope that my message of hope can resonate. All of you have IQ beyond mine I think, but all of you lack something I have. I have Hope, and I want you all to think on how to create communities of hope. A sustainable community where we create and we do not consume more than we need, where we create wealth for generations. We need to create a sustainable system that will benefit not just our children, but for the children of our children and beyond. We may not all survive, but the idea will. And that my friends, is the key to everlasting life. We will create a concept, a philosophy, that will create Order out of Chaos. We need to, because our children depends on it.

 

Thank you for your time. I will try to post this everywhere so everyone who can see this message can think and try to build a community of hope around them. With all of your intelligence, and perhaps with a new sense of hope and purpose, we can recreate our country again. Long Live our Republic of USA

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 16:04 | Link to Comment buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

The negativity is understandable - you're hearing from some people who have been awake for decades, watching the rest of us stumble around with our baubles. Some have poured many hours into the effort of waking people up. Now they're seeing some light at the end of the tunnel - not that our situation is improving, but that people are catching on. But overall the situation still sucks legions of donkeys, so the negativity. A move to an honest system of money and commerce will entail wrenching change no matter when it happens. The coming crisis will make real change possible, but only if enough people - like you and the rest of the people here - insist on it. This site hardens convictions, and it is filled with enough bright people that some of them will find a voice and courage when push comes to shove. Clearly explaining to people just WTF happened to their country and their money will be easier when they _really_ want to understand and fix things. We'll have our day if we prepare.

This is one of the few sites that regularly makes me laugh out loud. But as a rule, we're not here to play games. We want the skinny on what's reallly happening and what we can do to protect ourselves and our families.

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 12:54 | Link to Comment Beau Tox
Beau Tox's picture

Moocao;

Don't let the pessimists here get you down.  Hope is one of the Christian cardinal virtues.  We must however, hope for the collapse of the rigged system of false weights and measures, which has prevailed since the Hebrews were brainwashed in Babylon.  Strangely enough, I hope to qualify as a licensed and certified HunterGatherer one day.  I hope my wife can survive our marriage in that context.

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 12:17 | Link to Comment paintman
paintman's picture

Hope gets you nowhere.  Clear-thinking, adaptable planning, and determination are what will pull us through.  Hope is for those who still wish to ride someone else's coat-tails.

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 11:25 | Link to Comment nah
nah's picture

Mormon town > vatican bitchez

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 12:56 | Link to Comment Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture

You're an idiot and a bigot.  There are more LDS in CA than UT.  CA is second only to UT for LDS per capita.  

I live in Logan, UT where my neighbors picked up the car saving the life of that motorcycle accident victim two weeks ago. The drug induced scum in CA would have eaten popcorn wathing him die.  I know because I was born and raised in CA and lived there for 50 years.  

You can flush CA down the toi toi.   

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 12:42 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Not even close.  Don't talk about folks if you have never lived among them.  The mormons I lived among in Logan UT were among some of the cleanest, decent, well spoken, hardworking, and well prepared people I have ever known.  All one has to do is look at Catholics around the world and their slums of suffering to know you are a troll.

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 10:57 | Link to Comment High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

and may i ask, what has happened to sovereign nations that wanted to do the same thing as they are doing? hmmm?

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 15:48 | Link to Comment buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

Oh, that's right. Never mind.

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 12:09 | Link to Comment striving4simple
striving4simple's picture

Answer - overturned

Iraq/Saddam - created an event as a reason to invade - to prevent any threat to the petrodollar

Libya/Gaddafi - supported an internal rebellion by 10% of the population - to prevent the gold backed dinar

 

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 10:17 | Link to Comment tamboo
tamboo's picture

.

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 09:56 | Link to Comment snowball777
snowball777's picture

a) Hamilton was THE central bank proponent within the founding fathers

b) Utah doesn't get to decide anything about a power reserved to the Federal government

c) 1972 != 1792...make up your frakkin' mind (or at least get a copy editor)

d) The man wanted control over US currency (as in no competition for his racket)

No smartknowledge4u, one year!

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 12:20 | Link to Comment smartknowledgeu
smartknowledgeu's picture

thank you for pointing out the 1972 error. sometimes I'm dyslexic with numbers. as far as Hamilton, yes we are aware that he was a proponent for the 1st Bank of the United States and wanted to control the nation's monetary supply as all powerful men do. however, that is not our point. the point is that the Coinage Act of 1792 made the debasement of money illegal and that it WAS a bill that did protect the freedoms of people.

 

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 10:10 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

Be gentle, my friend. The author is contributing something to us. Correct if it is required, but this guy is putting himself on the line here... don't begin with hostilities. Make him better.

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 10:59 | Link to Comment anony
anony's picture

Civility, like breast implants, is overrated.

Speak in your own voice,as long its truth you are telling.

Opinions on the other hand, should be spoken with diplomacy and tact.

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 12:12 | Link to Comment Cliff Claven Cheers
Cliff Claven Cheers's picture

A diplomat is someone who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that you will look forward to the trip. 

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 09:50 | Link to Comment aaronb17
aaronb17's picture

Is it possible to raise a concern about the whole "sound money" issue without immediately being dismissed here?

Here goes: Money backed by gold, or by anything with gold-like properties, will simply change the game a bit in my opinion.  But do you really think that non-fiat currency will result in much else being solved?  It certainly won't end credit default swaps or screwing around with interest rates, etc.

In addition, any non-fiat currency will simply adopt the value properties of what it is backed by -- gold, or whatever. 

Just look at "GLD" and the uncertainty/shennanigans going on with it.  GLD is virtially a non-fiat currency, right?  It's paper, "backed by gold" but really only backed by the assurances of the people who issue it. 

The same goes for "gold-backed" currency.  OK, sure, it's "backed by gold," but it isn't gold, it's a peice of paper/bit of data.  It's only as good as your faith in the issuer. 

The real problem is the lack of faith in the issuer here.  You won't change that by making the issuer say "OK, I pinky-promise that I'll give you gold in exchange for this paper if you want it."  That promise is only as good as your faith in the issuer. 

And likewise, if you've got great faith in the issuer, then the backing of the currency doesn't matter as much. 

All of the energy going into the "sound money" movement could be going into changing the character of our government, which is the real problem here anyway. 

Just saying . . .

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 12:22 | Link to Comment paintman
paintman's picture

Todays money is backed by tomorrows labor.  Tomorrows labor is devalued by todays excesses.  PM currencies would merely put the value of labor and money on the same time basis.

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 09:56 | Link to Comment IAmNotMark
IAmNotMark's picture

You answered your own questions: 

"All of the energy going into the "sound money" movement could be going into changing the character of our government, which is the real problem here anyway."

Returning to a sound money system IS about changing the character of our government. In fact that is what the whole topic can be reduced to.  By adhearing to a sound money system the government is constrained in spending. And from there...

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 10:11 | Link to Comment aaronb17
aaronb17's picture

Yes, but we had a "sound money" system for years, and look where it got us ... we ultimately went off of said system, and shennanigans (gold confiscation, etc) ensued in the meantime. 

We could go on to the sound money system, make a few speculators rich as hell (or not, depending on how it's done) and then in ten or twenty years go off of it again.  What was accomplished? 

I'm sorry, but I strongly suspect that what the "sound money" movement is really about is increasing the relative wealth of people who own physical gold.  They want a huge squeeze on supply, so their stashes become more valuable.   In that, they're no different than any other bubble chasers/speculators.  

Of course, they're no worse, either, and in certain ways I respect their determination, especially those who have stuck with it for decades.

But really, if they win, it's just going to be a shuffling in the ranks of the rich.  The wealth will still be highly concentrated amongh a few people -- just a different few (although I bet the "wealthy few" won't really look that different). 

In addition, there will of course be confiscations and other bad actions by those claiming that the world will end if they don't stay wealthy.  All in all, it'll be the same crap we've been dealing with all along.  Unless you own gold, in which case you might be fabulously wealthy.  But excuse me for not cheering for a policy that will make a few people fabulously wealthy.   I'm tired of those. 

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 11:40 | Link to Comment IAmNotMark
IAmNotMark's picture

You are using the actions of the thieves and the government to argue against sound money?

Because a thief takes something or the government confiscates something (same thing) does that mean we should surrender?

Yes, we have had sound money systems for years.  Centuries actually.  I have silver coins from 500BC, 500AD, 1500AD and from today.

We've also had fiat systems for centuries.  I really like my ZIM100T bill.  That is 100,000,000,000,000 dollars.  It's worthless, but I like the color and the zeros.

There are many who consider sound money to be the basis of a free society and look at our current problems as the result of unsound money.  

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 11:21 | Link to Comment striving4simple
striving4simple's picture

Yes, the return to a gold standard would change who holds the wealth.

TEMPORARILY !! and then the wealth would gradually flow to and accumulate with the general public.

You see, when the holders of true money (gold) wish to make use of if, they have to release it by spending it. Unless they have a way to earn real money back, they gradually become less wealthy.

Under the current fractional/FIAT/FED banking system those who control the system can spend indefinately with no real loss of wealth because they can just CREATE more FAKE money. 

Creating more unbacked money hurts the public in general via inflation. And the furthur one is from the source of the unbacked money, the more one is hurt.

If someone just holds their true money wealth, neither increasing, decreasing or loaning - the wealth is inert and stable (just like gold's physical properties).

If someone rich holds and accumulates true money, it makes all money held by the general public more valuable because the supply has decreased. If said someone decides to go on a spending binge, natural market forces quickly rebalance the value of the true money.

Under a true money system, pointless wars will not/can not be funded.

Under a true money system, trade deficits self balance.

Under a true money system, it is possible to make accurate statistical models and predictions (i.e. how much do I need to save for retirement).

Sports Fans - imagine this: Would any Olympic records or team statistics matter if

- the length of a foot, yard or meter changed continuously?

- the duration of a second wasn't the same as last year?

- the weight of a pound or kilogram was always decreasing?

What would the record for home runs mean - NOTHING - because the ball is lighter, the field shorter! And for steals - NOTHING - because the distance between bases is less!

Engineers - how good of a bridge can you make if the composition of the steel and concrete is always changing?

Scientists - _ALL_ _SCIENCE_ is based on observation and MEASUREMENT! How could any good science be performed if the units used to measure are always changing?!?

This is why economics under a FIAT system fails - their unit of measurement is faulty.

It is SIMPLE!

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 15:32 | Link to Comment buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

+.999

Fri, 10/28/2011 - 14:12 | Link to Comment AE911Truth
AE911Truth's picture

Or 666 if you are on the wrong side of the table.

PM's are the beast that will destroy the bankers. 'cause they're on the wrong side of the table.

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 11:20 | Link to Comment Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

which is why Ron Paul wants COMPETING currencies.

It's NOT enough to have gold and silver as money only. The constitution restricts the government from tendering anything other than gold and silver as payment, but it doesn't restrict a private individual from using anything as currency.

 

Gold standard is to restrict the growth of government. Competing currencies will bring true economic freedom.

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 10:31 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Well the problem is with control of the money supply.  I don't believe that a gold backed currency, or rather just physical gold and silver would be as easy to manipulate as someone entering digits in a database.  Sure, some long time metal hoarders would become very well off but I don't buy into your premise that it would wind up being the same game in different hands.

I love how the anti-sound money movement likes to equate transaction in physical silver and gold to going back to something like the Amish drawing a herd of cattle.  Apparenty, credit cards and online-banking is "progress" (and people wonder where the great inventors have gone?).  I don't know who is crazier sometimes, the social darwinists or the creationists!

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 15:45 | Link to Comment buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

Who's crazier? The one that's wrong, whoever that is.

But neither of these groups could possibly match the real insanity that stalks the world: Those who think we are creatures yet decry social darwinism - the rabid control freaks. They could give and give and give, but they'd rather take and transfer, for a fat cut.

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 09:55 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

 But do you really think that non-fiat currency will result in much else being solved?

Dear God, yes!

Don't have time to give you an itemized list, but hang around and learn.

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 09:41 | Link to Comment Bullionaire
Bullionaire's picture

Seriously bad history, here.  Hamilton was a statist (federalist) and personally started the first US central bank.  Good article about Utah, but totally factually wrong on the Bank Of England's darling, Alexander Hamilton.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Hamilton

 

Duh.

 

 

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 09:38 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

Good article in general, but Alex Hamilton was NOT the apostle of honest money. For that, you need Jefferson.

Hamilton set up the first central bank, started Wall Street, led the mass rip-off of Rev. War soldiers, and so on. He is the enemy, even if he did put in a useful note on coinage.

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 10:21 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

He wasn't the one who "ripped off the soldiers." he was the one that saw our soldiers had been ripped off and set about to change that...not only formthe soldiers but for the functioning of government itself.'and it wasn't just Jefferson but the entire US South that in no way wanted the Fed's to have that power because thay had slavery. The irony that those who purport to be for civil rights wish to totally disregard sound money and sound finance should be lost on no one.

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 11:16 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

Fully disagree. Hamilton started the securities dealer group that became Wall St. - and who had the only access to redeeming the notes. (The guv was in NY at the time.)

Hamilton also bribed a bunch of congressmen to vote for the central bank by giving them a heads up on paying off the debts 100% The congressmen then sent agents to buy it from solders at 10-20% of face.

Hamilton was a bastard. Jefferson wrote about him at length, Madison complained about him, and so on. He manipulated soldiers into a near mutiny at the end of the war, incited the Whiskey rebellion, manipulated Washington in many ways, undercut Adams in many ways, lied endlessly about Jefferson, and more.

If you want facts from the people involved at the time, see here: http://www.amazon.com/Words-Founders-Paul-Rosenberg/dp/0979987733/ref=sr...

 

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 11:22 | Link to Comment High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

i think this is why washington never promoted him. he didn't trust him  hamilton wasn't his real name. not sure what that business was with burr but whatever it was , burr finished it............hamilton's widow lived not far from the white house until she died....and she always thought that hamilton was a great man that was misunderstood.............yeh sure..........

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 09:14 | Link to Comment cognus
cognus's picture

This is the most important article to appear on ZeroHedge in a long long time, and that's saying something 'cause there are a LOT of important articles posted here!

hope it goes viral

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 09:03 | Link to Comment bankruptcylawyer
bankruptcylawyer's picture

Utah is a state totally controlled by mormons. they are not going to figure out how to influence or game the system in a manner which can be copied by other states to create a viral seed of systemically threatening behavior (malignant to the central bank control)

 

what they will do is figure out a way to isolate themselves. good for them. i do honestly applaud their efforts in being a leading advocate for personal and state liberty.

but if there are states i trust to lead the way , they are states with a mix of people's religion's , geographies , climates, and businesses ( not exclusively farming states and not overwhelmingly corporate/defense states like delaware , new york, california, new jersey, maryland, south dakota, north carolina, florida) .

here's my list.

washintong state, new hampshire, vermont, pennsylvania, tennessee, montana, wymoing, idaho, maybe oregon and maybe , maybe colorado.----feel free to add to the list.

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 11:28 | Link to Comment High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

i am calling bullshit on any independence movement in utah. that state is controlled opposition. the mormons are in on the game as far it goes. the cia recruits heavily from their ranks. they are heavily into freemasonry and always have been. they think they are the lost ten tribes of israhole so they cooperate fully with the nwo at every opportunity........because they think they are in on the big game...they are even being allowed(gee i wonder why) to participate in the building of the so-called third jewish temple in jerusalem....mormons (at least in the top layers) are not to be trusted and maybe the whole lot since they are totally brainwashed idiots anyway, just like the jehovah witnesses....etc. imho, people like this will be used in the coming world to be spies and finks and rats and tattletales on their fellow amerikans......and they will do their duties as they see them.........

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 13:16 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

**cough**glenbeck**cough**

despite being targeted as "downwinders" there is a loyalty to the idea of bringing "zion" back to Illinois, etc. etc. and yes, they work fist in glove with Isn'tReal, both blatantly using the other to further their fairy tales.

The threat of downwind exposure to radioactivity remaining at the Nevada Test Site from nuclear weapons tests was still an issue as late as 2007. The Pentagon planned to test a 700-ton ammonium nitrate-and-fuel oil "bunker buster" weapon. The planned "Divine Strake" test would have raised a large mushroom cloud of contaminated dust that could have blown toward population centers such as Las Vegas, Boise, Salt Lake City, and St. George, Utah. This project was cancelled in February 2007, in large part due to political pressure inspired by the threat of downwind exposure to radioactivity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downwinders#Nevada

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 12:29 | Link to Comment buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

I'm calling BS on your unending negativity.

I would be thrilled if the south central LA city council considered this declaration. I'm glad anyone is talking about it.

Can they do it? Well, I would guess that at least in your mind (and mine) their racial and cultural homogeneity is an advantage. Why not encourage them to try, rather than pissing on them? This isn't coming from the illuminati among the mormons, is it? Then let them fight it out and let the whole world watch.

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 09:28 | Link to Comment Clint Liquor
Clint Liquor's picture

Nevada is the 'mind your our damn buisness state'. 24/7 drinking and gambling, legal prostitution (in most counties), no state income tax and you can still smoke in a bar.

Ironically, they re-elected Harry Reid, a big government sack of shit.

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 09:48 | Link to Comment JuicedGamma
JuicedGamma's picture

I would venture his reelection hinges on opposition to the spent nuclear fuel repository at Yucca Mountain.

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 08:52 | Link to Comment digalert
digalert's picture

+1 Utah

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!