Wall Street Protest Starting to Look Like Egypt

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Sat, 10/01/2011 - 14:42 | 1729240 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

the smell of tear gas on Pennsylvania Ave is a far more effective message.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 13:34 | 1730937 snowball777
snowball777's picture

The use of fentanyl gas on K-Street would be even more effective.


Sat, 10/01/2011 - 12:31 | 1729023 Mudduckk
Mudduckk's picture

DC? Wall Street owns DC. Or paraphasing Pedro M., "Wall Street is DC's daddy!"

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 11:56 | 1728967 CharlieSDT
CharlieSDT's picture

What a retarded comment.  Tourism on Wall Street?  I think these protesters have it right, the bankers are the true villians.  The politicians are just their lapdogs.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 11:07 | 1728859 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

I am surprised Bloomberg hasn't shoved them into offsite protest zones, miles away from Wall Street. I expect Obama to visit Wall Street, and when he does then the protestors will get pushed out of the way, and probably will have to stay there (Central Park?) Bush used to do this regularly, it was an effective way of controlling dissidence.

Also I am surprised the groups that target WTO and G7 policies aren't here, those groups are much more confrontational, they have been doing it for years. The media pretends it doesn't understand what the global issues with corporate America are, but you can imagine these two groups getting together and building a real head of steam.

Of course Obama has been (trying) to raise campaign contributions on Wall Street the last month, I would expect to see him burned in effigy, I mean these protests are way way too tame. This is going to escalate, and when it does some groups will coalesce and raise the decibel level considerably.

Bloombergs only alternative may be to turn Times Square into Tienenmen Square.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 11:19 | 1728893 williambanzai7
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I think those "groups" have morphed into something else. 

This kind of decentralized activism is not so easily shoved into a corner. It is a networked human swarm.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 11:07 | 1728858 mayhem_korner
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WB7 - three critical questions:

1) What is the specific end result that is to be gained from the protests? 

2) What is the course of action that will lead to the outcome?

3) Are 1) and 2) universally understood by all the protestors (or is there a reasonable possibility of achieving that)?

"Sending a message" by itself doesn't accomplish anything.  Take the Tea Party for example.  The movement has a specific purpose - to reconstitute the governing factions of the U.S. in order to reverse the uncontrolled spending and reassert liberties.  The Tea Party identifies and supports candidates and gets them elected.  Purpose and path are clear.

The problem I have with the Occupy Wall Street is there is no clear end-game.  Absent that, the predictable happens - frustration builds and the reality of diverse expectations lead to infighting.  So it is far, far more likely that we will see infighting among the protesters than actual progress toward the goal.  And thus, the movement takes two steps backwards by self-inflicted divide and conquer.

My two cents...

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 03:34 | 1730344 AustriAnnie
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Mayhem, I'd rather see the protests STAY disorganized.  Then it is a lot of individuals, like Banzai said "shaking the system".

Why must there be a "planner" who centrally plans this protest and begins to demand things from the gov't.  Thats more of the same of what we've HAD.

What we do need are people who aren't asking for anything other than for the bailouts of Wall Street to STOP.  Why must all those people have everything in common and want all the same things?


Sun, 10/02/2011 - 22:59 | 1732138 mayhem_korner
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You ever see a football team try to run an offense without a play in mind?  It's not about central planning, it's about a coordinated effort.  The central planning problem is that the elected ones are allocating OTHERS' resources.  The failure doesn't stem from planning & coordination, it stems from the disconnect between the (rightful) owners and the allocators of resources.

Believe it or not, you are AGREEING with me.  You have articulated a clear objective - putting an end to the Wall Street bailouts.  And then you go on to say that everyone "wants the same thing."  So you have satisfied my questions #1 and part of #3.  (I won't get into whether everyone in fact believes the Wall St. bailouts are the root problem to be dismantled, as that is another story...)


Sat, 10/01/2011 - 11:13 | 1728877 williambanzai7
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It is up to every citizen to decide what he believes and to do whatever he or she can. Those people are there to do one thing, shake the system. We've had almost four years of dumb mesmerization.

Time to wake up the people.

The crooks and their enablers need to know there are very real risks involved in what they are doing. and the people are not going to standby like good sheep.

So we can all engage in intelligent discussion. But we already know it is for naught if the volume is not turned up.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 14:53 | 1729261 beanieville
beanieville's picture

New yorkers protesting on Wallstreet won't amount to an ounce of beans.  Here's what they should do instead:  get an EV. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psB71wUeXXE . We need a green energy revolution, is what we need.  All problems will be solved as a result.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 12:49 | 1729052 monoloco
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The best thing we all can do is to try and disseminate truth and educate people as to what these fraudsters and their government lackeys are foisting on us. This site and others like it are key, when enough of our citizens understand what is really going on there will be no sanctuary for these criminals.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 13:11 | 1729095 williambanzai7
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You are right. I hope all of us, irrespective of our own views, are engaging with others on these issues.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 03:42 | 1730353 AustriAnnie
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Exactly.  Engaging others with words, not bullets.  

I wish Ron Paul would speak to this crowd.  He can help to win people over by explaining how the war, welfare state, and concentration of power in the hands of banks/gov't/Fed is responsible for the situation we are in.  Many of those protesters need to hear that.  


Sat, 10/01/2011 - 12:06 | 1728989 mayhem_korner
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You're spouting a bunch of slogans strung together.

What are "the very real risks" to the crooks?  Are they going to get looted, hanged, put on trial? 

And if "every citizen" decides what he believe he ought to do...isn't that just anarchy?

Absent some kind of clear purpose, I think you're going to be very disappointed in the outcome here.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 12:38 | 1729029 williambanzai7
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I do not mean to disrespect you.

But what you and a load of media hacks and others are saying is a crock of shit.

What do you expect everyone to do, prepare a 4000 page legislative agenda and an executive action plan.

The whole idea that there has to be a codified position is nonsense. 

In fact, that position is intended to divide and conquer. Because every plank in an "agenda" excludes someone. And this is not about excluding people.

You want a simple plan? OK here it is...

Get rid of the money in politics and reinstate Glass Steagall.

Unfortunately, that simple sentence is incomprehensible to legions of PhDs, think tank wonks, industry experts, politicians, yadda, yadda

It is easy to say democracy is a constant threat of anarchy. That is not the democracy I literally spent years studying and believing in.


Sat, 10/01/2011 - 13:01 | 1729071 mayhem_korner
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You're good with me, WB7.

I'm just pointing out what I see and what I see missing. 


Edit: The U.S. is not a democracy, never has been, and was not designed as such.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 13:09 | 1729083 williambanzai7
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Many of us spend many hours reading and thinking about solutions. But you and I both know that those efforts are for naught.

Really fine minds were involved in the debate over financial reform and what did we get? Literally Frankensteins monster, neutered.

I use the term democracy broadly.

The founding Fathers debated all of the pros and cons and came up with their upon model. The model does not work if the electorate is passive. At least for the 99%

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 18:20 | 1729694 RSloane
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We have legislators who are passing laws that they proudly proclaim they haven't even read. Idiots like Chris Dodd said he hasn't even read Dodd-Frank and chuckled about it. Yes our founding fathers debated pros and cons. Our current body of politicians just do what their respective whips tell them to do, collect money from the lobbyists, and enjoy the life their privilege gives them.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 17:53 | 1729622 johnny the boy
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I see a great many people of incredible diversity getting together with a single voice. This is nothing short of astounding! To say that each individual must share the same "crystal clear" goal is irrelevant. Also to assume that these protesters are not aware of the intricacies of matters discussed here and that they are morons "trending" is ridiculous. Surely one of those protesting grannies is worth more than 666 shill trolls brandishing AK-47s and complaining that "its not enough". Oh brother!

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 12:54 | 1729062 monoloco
monoloco's picture

Bingo, the sheer complexity of the laws and regulations give cover to the criminals who conceived them.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 12:50 | 1729049 williambanzai7
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Oops, almost forgot the most important thing, throw those guilty of defrauding the economy in jail.

I'm in a feisty mood. Pardon my feistiness.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 16:30 | 1729445 RockyRacoon
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I am with you and you have stated the position well.   All this talk about "objectives" and stuff is crap.  Just go out there and raise some hell.   So a few knot-heads get in on the action -- so what.   The "message" is clear:   We are all fed up.   Anyone who espouses that position is doing the right thing.    Their religious, ethnic, or other affiliations are tertiary.    This crowd cannot get a grip because there is no grip to be had.   It's been all for himself in these not quite so United States, so why should not a crowd also be in it for a purpose to each his own?   Melting pots don't require method nor direction.   Just keep stirring.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 23:08 | 1732164 mayhem_korner
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The message is clear: We are all fed up.


Look, guys, junk away.  But that is not a clear message at all.  What are you fed up with?  Bank bailouts...or...redistributive policies?  Predatory lending...or...individuals shirking responsibility for their own well-being?  Frauds...or...failure to prosecute the frauds?  That some people have cheated their way to more money than you...or that some people have earned more money than you?  That the stock market is rigged...or...that you perhaps moved too late to avoid it?  That oil prices are too high...or...that gold prices are too low?  That you have to hand over too much of your hard-earned wages...or...that you don't get a large enough handout from the system?

Unless you can articulate something cohesive, you are simply yelling aimlessly that "something" isn't fair and "something" needs to be done about it.  Right now, I can't discern the answer to either from this protest.

Party on...

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 11:54 | 1741563 RockyRacoon
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"Yes!" is the answer to your questions.   All of them.... YES!  Fed up with all of them

Disgruntlement comes in many flavors and folks can meet with common malcontent as the only cohesive factor.   A lot of that is present in the Tea Party gatherings, yet nobody questions their "motives", their cohesiveness has not been questioned by any serious detractor, and, yes, there are well-heeled backers who supply decorated buses and cash for speaking venues.  Nobody should be surprised that unions and other "liberal" backers show up to support the Wall Street protesters.   It's all parts of a whole:  WE ARE FED UP!

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 18:01 | 1729644 falak pema
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The Politicians, even if they don't control the money, do control the political process, broadly speaking. If the US public make their presence felt as massively and peacefully as the Cairoites at Tahrir, it could shake the political system to its roots. You can't have HC/BO shouting Damascus is a crime and looking the other way in NYC!

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 10:37 | 1728793 john39
john39's picture

good question.  my only real fear about this is that the movement will be orchestrated and used to further the agenda to further centralize power and control by destroying our rights and crush the middle class.   you can see in Egypt for example how the movement was controlled.  So they sacraficed mubarek, big deal.  The same people are still in control through the military junta and not much has change.  will the people prevail there (or here)?  remains to be seen.  it will take much more than protests in both cases.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 18:19 | 1729692 monoloco
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The Democratic party could coopt the movement like the GOP did with the Tea Party and then push a bunch more bank welfare regulation diguised as financial reform. Yes, they are that sleazy.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 11:16 | 1728886 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

No two situations are alike. You cannot resign from the fight. Resistance, honor and action are a matter of personal character.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 14:51 | 1729253 Buckaroo Banzai
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If you are going to change something, you better have a crystal-fucking-clear idea of what you want to change that thing into. Are you going to make the situation better, or worse? Unfortunately it appears that the people behind this protest are, for lack of a more precise term, Communists. I know, profoundly, that they will take a bad system, and make it infinitely worse.

I will have no truck with that kind of filthy people.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 15:03 | 1729274 williambanzai7
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You know, I have 1.3 billion communists living just across the border. To me the word communist, just like capitalist, has morphed into a rhetorical farce.

And by the way, in my travels, I have seen what a real died in the wool communist looks and smells like. I wonder if you have.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 04:43 | 1730391 falak pema
falak pema's picture

I have, and for the female type; they smell as sweet as their capitalistic counterparts. Funny how an undressed woman has no feeling of the color of her political skin....

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 15:25 | 1729329 Buckaroo Banzai
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No, but I've seen the legacy of hundreds of millions dead that Communism left behind in the 20th century. The single most bloodthirsty and criminal ideology ever known to mankind. That's all I need to know.

15Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

    16By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

    17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

    18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit.

    19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire.

    20Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them.

--Matthew 7:15-20

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 12:20 | 1730850 mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

How did you come up with 'hundreds of millions'? The figures I've seen put both Stalin and Mao in the tens of millions each. As a percentage of the population, US killed and maimed more in Viet Nam to "save" them.

Maybe you haven't read much history. I think Genghis Khan and the Mongols were considerably more bloodthirsty along with hundreds of others like Huns, Goths, Zulus, Maya....





Mon, 10/03/2011 - 22:22 | 1735608 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Manure spreaders don`t read history, they`re too focussed on filling themselves with shit for dissemination.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 09:55 | 1728694 blindman
blindman's picture

the people are the government, that includes all
the people. this point was brought up 200 plus years
ago and still has not sunk in, it appears many actually
despise the idea. i don't know if we can even deal with
the idea in any meaningful way? never mind build on it.
maybe a generation has to just get out of the way.
or rewrite the constitution. get rid of the whole
of the people, by the people, for the people jive?
the real american revolution awaits? good luck.
by the way, we already have the perfect system for
the narcissistic psychopath mentality. no enforcement
of financial regulation or control for those who have
succeeded in positioning themselves socially and financially
in the domain as it presents itself. no major corrections
need be made, the subjugation and enslavement of the human
race is nearly complete.
Peter Schiff vs Michael Moore on #occupywallstreet & ‘capitalism’
Posted on September 30, 2011 by stacyherbert

@peter shiff i ask..
if the people are the government why do we need
less? and who decides who has to go? if the people
are not the government then who is?
i think this is the question. and obviously the federal reserve note
is the problem, the source of the fiat problems, that few will address
as it is the only swag they know. left and right. obviously the problem
and no one, few, will face. it is like a plato cave deal where we only
see the shadows and refuse to get up and exit the cave of fiat, usury
madness. we will never see the light of day shackled in the cave by
the chains of usury. never. descriptions of workable alternatives exist
outside the cave of usury.
unfortunately the crimes have been so extensive and ubiquitous,
so systemic at this point, that claw backs will be absolutely insane.
rock and hard place, end of the world scenario seems almost guaranteed.
so i would say now is a good time to consider that the people are
the government and as such demand the respect and consideration that
a "free" person is naturally gifted by the universe itself. respect
all around.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 11:30 | 1728910 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

by the way, we already have the perfect system for
the narcissistic psychopath mentality. no enforcement
of financial regulation or control for those who have
succeeded in positioning themselves socially and financially
in the domain as it presents itself.

I need to see how RP would deal with exploiters. They say Hong Kong part example of libertarian society, and have great economy, but air polluted. Great economy with all people can't breath or see sun, what good is economy?

How would RP deal about huge corporation with billions of dollars to spend on litigation against pollution?

The teaparty talk of ban on EPA, okay maybe agency not effective, but this is main platform. WTF? Sounds like old tired argument from GOP, that and drill, drill, drill.

RP and teaparty about lose much support. But for me reigning in deficit to reign in spending on scary military industrial complex is more important.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 12:23 | 1730854 mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

People eagerly move from unpolluted areas with bad economy to heavily polluted areas with good economy and usually remain there even after they stop working. So I guess they prefer good economy.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 14:10 | 1729189 OldTrooper
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I think you are confusing 'Tea Party' (whatever that is - there's been so much abuse of that label that I'm not sure it means anything anymore) and 'Ron Paul'.  And a ban on the EPA is the main platform?  WTF?  You need to get out more if you think that's the main platform.

But anyway, the 'exploiters' are in large measure created by government.  How much a bankster is allowed to steal, how much toxic waste a company can let escape into ground water, and a host of other exploitive and destructive practices are licensed by government.  Laws, rules, regulations are written (with exemptions for favored companies) to keep competitors with better products and practices from gettting in the door.  And, by law, your average fellow that has been picked clean by these vultures doesn't have standing to sue.  If a person does manage to prevail in the uphill battle for standing, then he's prevented from pursuing his claim because the injustice system (an arm of government, not-so-coincidently) has been designed to make fighting exploitation financially impossible for 99.9% of us.  Remove the cloak of law and the police state that covers these practices and things would be very different in fairly short order.

Oh, and Ron Paul is - to my knowledge - the only real canidate that has advocated significantly cutting defense spending and slapping down the military industrial complex in any meaningful way.  I challenge you to expand your sources of information - a lot.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 15:15 | 1729297 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

My writing sucks. I know Ron Paul not Tea Party, and I support Ron Paul now, but he needs to explain to me how he can deal with rich exploiters. I see your example, but if rich corporation suddenly harms my property and I'm poor, how do I fight it? Or fumes from large coal power plant get in lungs, then become deathly sick from cancer, ten years after relase of toxic material, how do I fight?

On television show a tea party organization talks about a ban EPA and it's listed on webstie in top five issues, so it's main platform of organized Tea Party. It's because organized Tea Party, is part of GOP who co-opt for environment issues, marriage, and abortion. It's bullshit. And if organized Tea Party was the Tea Party of the people, the movement the people started, they'd be on Wall Street with everyone else. I think maybe some local tea party groups are going to Wall Street.

I know Ron Paul is candidate to support for limiting military terrorism on own US people. It's other reason I support him. If military keep developing tools to limit US citizen freedom with excuse to stop terrorism, then how is it different than attack.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 03:53 | 1730358 AustriAnnie
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The problem with EPA is that it can be used against a man's right to property as much as to defend it.  It is a gov't system with power that gets coopted by the same banksters that use every other gov't office for its own purpose.  Companies lobby the EPA to pass laws then make fortunes off of those laws, no differently than companies make money off of wars.

Do not forget that the gov't you ask to "protect you" is the same gov't you so loudly protest.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 10:43 | 1728804 Ruffcut
Ruffcut's picture

We ain't no government. When over 90% of the people bitched about tarp, yes their voices were heard? I also approved the AIG deal, personally. Yeah right.

We are little naive servants, self centered and waiting for the directive out of the box wih one eye ball.(tv)


Sat, 10/01/2011 - 10:42 | 1728800 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

"The government is the people" is the biggest pile of bullshit laid on simple minded socialist wannabees.  The people voted in George Bush TWICE!!!   Politicians remove restrictions on corporation and banks against the "the people's" best interests.  The government LIED about reasons for war.  The government "people" have bailed out banksters and corporations alike so that CEOs would continue getting bonuses. The government "people" have yet to throw anyone responsible into JAIL!  The government "people" feed fraudlent statistics and propaganda through their media arms to placate and confuse the masses with mis/disinformation.


Unfortunately "the people" that run for office usually are megalomanical sociopathic sycophants that suck up to big money interests as the kleptocrats all have something in common and that is egomania.  99% of politicians are the 1% that the protesters are complaining about.


If the government is the people then this is a bad fucking neighborhood and everyone that can move should.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 10:32 | 1730683 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Im not sure any government has ever acted in the peoples interest. Also not sure the people actually voted in george either time. Empires devolve and we are nearing the end of that cycle 

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 11:16 | 1728883 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

Yes, it's bad neighborhood, need more of us to run for office, we have to change it, not him over there. You run for office. Defeat the Megalomaniac.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 09:54 | 1728686 Lee
Lee's picture

Ha ha the protesters have bridged all political-ideological-race-creed-age BARRIERS!!!

And you fucktard status quo people here and in the MSM are losing it!


Power to the People!!!

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 10:08 | 1728721 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture


Sat, 10/01/2011 - 10:30 | 1728780 Lee
Lee's picture

:-P !!!!

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 09:53 | 1728683 JoBob
JoBob's picture

I'm getting the feeling that Ranger4564 is an old-fashion commuinist.

   Statements like "if I don't take what I need myself, who will bother to take care of me" don't give me warm fuzzies that he plans a future based on hard work. Claiming that capitalism cannot work and that a (New Age version of) communism is better is a chilling viewpoint for a would-be revolutionary.

   Ranger may have the youth and energy but his goals are badly flawed.

   Caveat emptor!



Wed, 10/05/2011 - 01:05 | 1740228 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

I'm not young... going on 48 very soon.  I am youthful.  I am not old fashioned about anything. I am one of the most open minded progressives you would ever meet.  I am a communist in many ways, but I also think we need something better, less vulnerable to exploitation, more beneficial to the citizenry.

I work my ass off to achieve my insights, help others, and wipe lazy greedy capitalists asses.  One thing about self interest, it does not make the coffee, it does not take the trash out, it does not work any more than the compensation provides, it does not do for others a god damn thing.

You can keep your hard working capitalist system.  I want something better for the rest of humanity, including for myself.  I have done more for people than most people can claim, and I still educate myself, and go to work... that's plenty of work, but I am certainly not the hardest working person by any means. People have to work 3 jobs or look all day for some food, or whatever the case is.  I do what I can.  In the OWS rally, I'll be working on open source technologies to provide a new infrastructure for the citizens, for when the corporations and government start censoring people / shut off the internet.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!