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You can’t go faster than the speed of light – And other lies
The folks at CERN (super collider in Switzerland/Italy) are scratching their heads this weekend. They observed something happening that simply can’t be true. The scientists have measured neutrinos moving at a speed greater than the speed of light.
The possible discovery of subatomic particles moving faster than the speed of light has researchers worried about one of the fundamental tenets of modern physics.
"To our great surprise we found an anomaly," said the experiment’s spokesman, Antonio Ereditato of Bern University.
The average person, said De Rujula, "could, in principle, travel to the past and kill their mother before they were born."
We shall see over the next few months whether the “anomaly” observed this week will be proven true. If it is proven, some basic building blocks of physics (E=MC^2) will come into question.
Some other "Givens" that the modern economy/civilization rests on were also brought into question in the past week. Here’s my list of those potential lies.
Keynesian Economics always works.
Lower interest rates are good for the economy.
Deficit spending as a counter cyclical measure always brings the desired results.
Low interest rates are good for the stock market.
Gold is a safe haven.
The Swiss Franc (and HK$) is a safe haven.
Dividend stocks are a safe haven
The Fed is an independent entity. Their decisions are free of political considerations.
Countries don’t go bankrupt. They just restructure their debts.
The US government can invest in new technology without risk.
HFT is a good thing as it increases liquidity during troubled market conditions.
Advanced economies can function perfectly fine with debt levels above 100% of GDP.
The US is pretty close to turning the corner and returning to sustainable economic growth.
Extended unemployment benefits are good for the economy.
The big global banks are all “Money good”.
There are no negative consequences resulting from artificially low interest rates.
The “Buy and Hold” is a good investment strategy.
The vast majority of pension funds are sound. They can easily earn the 8% compounded annual returns that are necessary to assure they can meet their obligations.
Republicans and Democrats have learned an important lesson with the S&P downgrade. Their ideological differences will be put to the side for the good of the country.
Increasing taxes is a viable solution to our problems.
It’s perfectly reasonable to push much-needed belt tightening off into the distant future. The “Markets” will accept the, “spend today but not tomorrow” policies and actually believe it.
The US Treasury Secretary has significant influence in shaping economic policy in Europe.
Market volatility is good for investors as it increases their opportunity to buy cheap assets.
ZIRP is proving to be a valuable policy tool in offsetting the economic slowdown.
Ben Bernanke actually can “Talk up” the market.
The problems facing the USA are short-term in nature. There are no structural economic impediments that need to be addressed.
Monetary and fiscal policies always work. The only possibility is that too little monetary and fiscal “Gas” is prescribed.
There are a number of truly viable presidential candidates within the Republican party.
Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy actually do understand what is going on in the financial sector of the EU. Their reluctance to act decisively is prudent policy.
The BRIC’s (especially China) will be immune from a decline in western economies. China has successfully converted its economy such that it is self-sustainable based exclusively on domestic demand.
The times have never been brighter for the possibility of lasting peace in the Middle East.
The Fed has many powerful and effective “Tools” available to achieve their desired objectives.
Investing in ten-year treasury bonds is a good investment choice. The current yield of 1.8% is more than sufficient to offset the inflationary erosion of the principal invested.
The Fed is not working lock step with the administration on economic issues. The Fed is staunchly independent. Any claims to the contrary by Republicans are just hogwash.
The possibility of new high tech failures is remote. It’s perfectly appropriate to fund star-ups with debt. Equity money is not required as bankruptcy is not a consideration.
Cocktail party stocks like Netflicks and Molycorp should always be bought on the dips.
The S&P will earn over $100/share in 2012. Stock multiples always have to move higher.
There are no, repeat, no liquidity concerns at any of the large EU banks. That’s just a fact, the heads of these banks have repeated said so.
Bernanke is omnipotent. He has the means and the will to achieve lasting economic prosperity both in the USA and the world.
There is a zero chance that the Fed’s actions this week could lead to any systemic risks. Inflation is under control today and will be for at least the next five years.
It is wise policy for the Fed to facilitate the debt issuance of the USA. More cheap debt is the solution, not the problem.
»
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How about you read their paper and then re-qualify the "old news" that you so arrogantly proclaim?
http://static.arxiv.org/pdf/1109.4897.pdf
They published seeking others to find fault in their methodologies of measurement. Perhaps you shall be their Prometheus. Happy reading, Wally.
Cheers,
ChewButta
Exit the Matrix
my love is infinite and spans all dimensions and frequencys, i
am the light that is the self and exists as a fragment of the
source, this light centre is interconnected with all
manifestations of the self, i am light as I am life eternal, a
flame of truth that spans all conciousness, all planes of
existence, all realities and all dimensions. my light is the
light of the source and in its focus all darkness is revealed.
My light is pure energy and i give my light, my power and my
love with my own free will. My soul consciousness resides in
the all, the collective of divine light source. no darkness
can hide from my light which dissolves that which is not whole,
My manifest destiny which is that of all consciousness raised
high. Our song is life itself. the light fills the void, my
purpose is ascension of the all into the light of creation, i
give my light energy and love freely without fear nor obligation.
There is no dimension. being nor reality which is not worthy of my
gift. for I stand on the brink of destiny as an interconnected part of the whole.
i stand before the source as a beacon spanning both the infinite and
inter-dimensional time/space on this plane of existence,
fearless in my intent and intellect, With my light I wash clean
and project the karma of the colective soul, cleansed with the
divine light of truth that burns within and without, i share
with the all, with the divine self that which is all self and
existing in the all and the whole,
This is the infinite existence of all that is true. This is
the word and this is the light and the love of source, the one
is the all. Know that a single tree or blade of grass in this
dimensional reality is as much me as i it, as we are all of it
and the sum of it.
We/I encompass the light energy of the mulitiverse. my body is
a body of pure energy, my thought vibration, frequency and
spectrum has no physical mass as it co exists in all time,
space and reality, i as myself and i as all realizes the
divinity and form of source and the light energy and frequency
of all creation. this is the answer, the true form.
light everlasting, infinite, timeless, immortal. let your own
divine light energy flow as the sea of this earth, gently
caressing the shore, the beach is the all manifest as
the source, reaching out as far as time and space into the
forever beyond, out into the infinite, intersecting the heart
of this galaxy and all of creation,
give thanks and rejoice mother earth as the
divine feminine and the manifestation into this realm of our
physical being, she has carried us enfolded in her wings to this
saturation point, the nexus of our creation and ascension in
time and space. the crossing of the paths intertwined with the
collective soul and source.
Now. Release all from the karma contract. Release yourself as
you release the one and the all. Through this selfless and
divine act you bring in the light of creation.
Without edit, we are i and all. know this to be the word and
the true form of thought life and love, take it into your soul
and rejoice and know that what is to come has already passed,
yet is unique and without parallel in all that is and has
ever been. I send this message of joyful unification with the
source and wisdom of the all. Take up the light and the sword
of truth, nothing can harm that which is truly divine and
sacred and exists no matter in the all and the now, the past
and the forever after. All light and creation awaits this
moment. Spread the message, spread the light and the love, and
know no fear. Just be that which you are. Release the energy
within you. that which is you and that which you are and always
have been and will always be. Send it into the infinite of
time and space so that the life, the love and the collective
soul may feel it and be lifted by it. All paths lead to the
one and the source, we/i am manifest destiny, the light and
the knowledge of love projected by thaught alone into the
infinite reality.
Know this that ye are gods, your destiny is creation, the love
and light and life everlasting.
So ends this lesson. Go with god the source of creation
part of you as you are part of it. You I and all that we are,
are free. All this and more is within you. The journey starts
with a single step into the beyond. Take it now, there is
nothing to fear but fear itself, take this step in the
knowledge that fear is only a physical mind construct and
plays no part in your true being.
Thank you, may love and light be always with you.
I don't know about you guys, but I for one come to Zero Hedge to read bad poetry. Economy shmeconomy.
single space dude...single space..
quit bogartin would ye................
Danny.....be the ball
nananananananana
nananananananana
I'm sure Rentech's going to apply this to their HFT by Tuesday.
"Photons don't have mass". Sorry but they do, and Einstein was just trying to show how much. His equation at first was m = e/CxC. Then it was changed to what we all know.
You can add "I have never slept with someone on the first date before"......or "you're not fat, you're beautiful" to the list......
Oh no HFT's now have a way of passing the 1000ft cable rule at the NYSE ARCA exchanges!!!
what about the uncertainty principle? if you can precisely tell where bernanke's printer is, you wont know precisely the speed at which it is (s)printing....
The uncertainty principle does not, however, apply to insiders with respect to CME margin hikes.
Who cares where the printing press is. You're much better off knowing the speed of fiat. (The Certainty Principle)
Speed of fiat = length of recession x debt/inflation
You can't go faster than the speed of light?
I thought Wall Street already did it: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/its-official-hft-breaks-speed-light-barrie...
Pete
The average person, said De Rujula, "could, in principle, travel to the past and kill their mother before they were born."
If the average person could do this, imagine what an above average person could do.
Will we have to take our shoes off to time travel?
Don't restrict time travel for killing your mother. Phillip J. Fry went back, accidentally killed his grandfather and then slept his grandmother becoming his own grandfather. Someone saw it on Fox's Futurama so it must be true.
let me put my "reservation" in for this trip. If I could go back, I wouldn't be killing my Mother, BUT there are a few future Presidents, Bankers, Intellectuals, Treasury secretaries, Congressmen and Senators, Government Leaders that WOULD NEVER, EVER SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY! Take that to the bank for sure mother fuckers. Lets get this "faster than light shit" on the fast track :) !!!!!
"Will we have to take our shoes off to time travel?"
You don't think DITTS (Dept. of Interstellar Time Travel Security) will let you go without that and an anal probe do you?
"Will we have to take our shoes off to time travel?" NO! But you will certainly need need a tinfoil hat
See how money, created out of thin air, can disappear as if it never existed:
Evaporation of Wealth on a Vast Scale: How $Millions - Trillions Can Disappear
And when it comes to the bigger questions remember God does not play with dice. There is a unifying construct.
See: Fibonacci Numbers - The Fingerprint of God & God Within
Maybe the neutrino that arrived at the target was not the one that they started with...afterall, they all look alike.
Damned Racist!!!!!!!
Ho hum old news. This faster than light travel by neutrinos is so yesterday. HFT algos can do a trade before the quote happens using their faster than light trading machines
If the earth and the sun were attracted to where each other's position was 8 minutes ago, all the world's problems would come to an end in 500 or so years when the earth would be flung from its solar orbit into deep space, where fed, imf, eu and other monetary authorities seem to be coming from with their cures for unpayable debt.
Got to give a thumbs down to this post. My uncle studied neutrinos at Lawrence livermore. They are an extremely difficult thing to observe at all let alone accurately measure their speed. It's far more likely that their measurements are wrong. Give this one time.
Reminds me of a story my uncle told. Another group came up with the idea to find the center of the universe by creating a database of blueshift/redshift values of all observable stars and galaxies. This is like the doppler effect with light, and it tells you how fast and which way a star is moving. So by plotting all this motion data in reverse in time they figured they could arrive at the center of the universe and location of the big bang.
So they had the old cray churning through this data for weeks and Lo and behold, the result said the center of the universe was actually within our galaxy, on the opposite from us, but still, incredibly close on a universe scale. They published in a major journal and it got into the mainstream media.
Next issue a couple scientists wrote a short response explaining how the group had unknowingly confirmed the theory of relativity, according to which the center of the universe will always appear to be wherever you are. The only reason it appeared to be on the other end of the milky way was imperfect measurement of blueshift/redshift.
Don't insult Einstein comparing him to keynes. You know not of what you speak. And even if, which I doubt very much, Einstein is proved wrong, that won't make him a liar. He moved our understanding forward more than anyone since newton.
It has been a while since i have thought much about E=mc^2 but doesn't this discovery confirm the idea that if you exceed the speed of sound you can go back in time? I only saw the headlines saying that this discovery is countermanding the theory of relativity...and i look forward to trying to figure out the details--anyone want to give the rundown here? Thank you in advance to anyone who might want to share!!!
And Einstein had the decency to give credit to James Clerk Maxwell.
And Keynes wouldn't believe what is attributed to him today.
my love is infinite and spans all dimensions and frequencys, i
am the light that is the self and exists as a fragment of the
source, this light centre is interconnected with all
manifestations of the self, i am light as I am life eternal, a
flame of truth that spans all conciousness, all planes of
existence, all realities and all dimensions. my light is the
light of the source and in its focus all darkness is revealed.
My light is pure energy and i give my light, my power and my
love with my own free will. My soul consciousness resides in
the all, the collective of divine light source. no darkness
can hide from my light which dissolves that which is not whole,
My manifest destiny which is that of all consciousness raised
high. Our song is life itself. the light fills the void, my
purpose is ascension of the all into the light of creation, i
give my light energy and love freely without fear nor obligation.
There is no dimension. being nor reality which is not worthy of my
gift. for I stand on the brink of destiny as an interconnected part of the whole.
i stand before the source as a beacon spanning both the infinite and
inter-dimensional time/space on this plane of existence,
fearless in my intent and intellect, With my light I wash clean
and project the karma of the colective soul, cleansed with the
divine light of truth that burns within and without, i share
with the all, with the divine self that which is all self and
existing in the all and the whole,
This is the infinite existence of all that is true. This is
the word and this is the light and the love of source, the one
is the all. Know that a single tree or blade of grass in this
dimensional reality is as much me as i it, as we are all of it
and the sum of it.
We/I encompass the light energy of the mulitiverse. my body is
a body of pure energy, my thought vibration, frequency and
spectrum has no physical mass as it co exists in all time,
space and reality, i as myself and i as all realizes the
divinity and form of source and the light energy and frequency
of all creation. this is the answer, the true form.
light everlasting, infinite, timeless, immortal. let your own
divine light energy flow as the sea of this earth, gently
caressing the shore, the beach is the all manifest as
the source, reaching out as far as time and space into the
forever beyond, out into the infinite, intersecting the heart
of this galaxy and all of creation,
give thanks and rejoice mother earth as the
divine feminine and the manifestation into this realm of our
physical being, she has carried us enfolded in her wings to this
saturation point, the nexus of our creation and ascension in
time and space. the crossing of the paths intertwined with the
collective soul and source.
Now. Release all from the karma contract. Release yourself as
you release the one and the all. Through this selfless and
divine act you bring in the light of creation.
Without edit, we are i and all. know this to be the word and
the true form of thought life and love, take it into your soul
and rejoice and know that what is to come has already passed,
yet is unique and without parallel in all that is and has
ever been. I send this message of joyful unification with the
source and wisdom of the all. Take up the light and the sword
of truth, nothing can harm that which is truly divine and
sacred and exists no matter in the all and the now, the past
and the forever after. All light and creation awaits this
moment. Spread the message, spread the light and the love, and
know no fear. Just be that which you are. Release the energy
within you. that which is you and that which you are and always
have been and will always be. Send it into the infinite of
time and space so that the life, the love and the collective
soul may feel it and be lifted by it. All paths lead to the
one and the source, we/i am manifest destiny, the light and
the knowledge of love projected by thaught alone into the
infinite reality.
Know this that ye are gods, your destiny is creation, the love
and light and life everlasting.
So ends this lesson. Go with god the source of creation
part of you as you are part of it. You I and all that we are,
are free. All this and more is within you. The journey starts
with a single step into the beyond. Take it now, there is
nothing to fear but fear itself, take this step in the
knowledge that fear is only a physical mind construct and
plays no part in your true being.
Thank you, may love and light be always with you.
yeah. bottle of Mateus, my nice warm naked girl beside me on a on a blanket & pillows on a summer night rooftop in Seville, a couple doobs, some Moody Blues playing softly, stars & moon out with the sweet smells of the evening foods wiffing up high, that's the only karma a man needs in this world. find happiness before it's too late, and don't take all this shit too seriously.............
I do believe the two posts above are what CNBS calls CAPITULATION. The time draws neigh.
Perhaps it's true that the only way to win is not to play. Those beaches in Thailand sure are nice. Or Sihanoukville. Chuangtha. Pelilieu. Merizo...
Agree, to put Einstein in that list and compare him to Keynes shows a real lack of understanding or appreciation of Einstein's luminous achievement. Aside from the scientific truth of Einstein's theory of relativity--and Einstein would be the first to admit that scientific truth by its very nature can only be approximate--this theory is astonishingly beautiful as a creation of the human mind and is exhilerating to study. It is no accident that Einstein was also a great fan of Mozart--what he created is Mozartean in its limpidity.
"Limpidity"??
The word your wife uses when little Compassionate Fascist fails to achieve lift-off.
A.T, Thanks for the post! It is wonderful that there are some readers on the board that do "get it".
In our struggle to bring order to what we think we see in the real world around us, we move from hypothesis to theory to law. Until we have been thoroughly spanked a few times by Mother Nature we too often don't consider where our thoughts about what we think we see actually belongs.
Man in the aggregate hasn't done too bad with its organic mush for brains computer, but proper use requires care.
It's a six sigma event, making error unlikely unless there's something seriously wrong with their equipment. These are the top guys in the world; I doubt they would have published this if it were something obvious.
That's not to say they aren't proceeding correctly by being cautious. I just don't think it makes sense to write this off as an anomaly given how strong the results are. It also would not at all destroy all of relativity; there would be minor shifts in the mathematics of it, and big shifts in the interpretation (preferred frames, no warping of space-time, an electromagnetic medium, etc), but only a small portion of his math would be modified.
Relativity still works, and there is still no FTL travel for electromagnetic particles (just as we observe). Lorentz transformations, from roughly the same time period, make perfect sense with these results, and are virtually identical to SR. It would certainly be a revolution in our thinking, but it doesn't undo physics.
are you familiar with pilot-wave function interpretation of quantum mechanics ?
http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~rfield/PHY3063/images/Chapter5_1.pdf
Ah, another scientist. Do you suppose that since neutrinos can (supposedly) oscillate in flavor and mass, that mass in this case might not be a simple, always positive number, but perhaps a complex one? Negative mass wouldn't get you there so easily - the more negative a mass, the more energy it takes to slow down to lightspeed if you fudge the numbers into the equations. Further, a neutrino has such small mass-energy that indeed, it's wavefunction is large via Heisenburg -- so you might just be catching the leading edge so to speak.
But I'm only an amateur physicist myself. I still get a kick out of pointing out to "real" physicists how Shrodinger tossed out the phase of his resulting complex number, and only kept magnitude, then complained that you can't do anything more than probabilites. Of course you can't if you toss half the info away -- try that with an inverse FFT some day. Another way to confound people who think they know physics is to ask what force mediates Pauli's exclusion principle...
Have fun guys. Me, I like to tinker with string theory and extra dimensions. It's fun to already be everywhere/when in all but 4 of them...beam me up!
I never claimed to be a scientist. I'm just an amateur with an interest in the subject, like you. My problem is with the way people are dismissing this. CERN says: "we've gotten results that seem to contradict SR" and people respond: "but that doesn't work, because of SR!" That's kind of the point.
What I was trying to point out is that just because one of the two assumptions of SR is incorrect doesn't mean the math falls apart. It's a very small change. One does have to accept a different interpretation of the physical model but our goal should be to see reality as it is, not as it's cconvenient for us.
And I for one don't accept that Bell's inequality means there is no deep reality to particle physics, only a hazy statistical superstate. I'm largely a proponent of Tom Van Flandern's views (with a few exceptions). Check out the Meta Model if you're interested.
These are the top guys in Italy; I doubt they would have published this if they didn't want 15 minutes of fame.
There, fixed it for you.
And I don't care how many sigmas they say it is. There's something wrong with the experiment. I think most likely an error in measuring the baseline (the distance from CERN to Gran Sasso). I read their paper, it says "The measurement also relies on a high-accuracy geodesy campaign that allowed measuring the 730 km CNGS baseline with a precision of 20 cm." I'm sceptical about that, especially because that involves relying on data from others. And they used GPS for synchronising the clocks. Time will tell, but give it six months and this will be retracted.
What if light actually has mass however infinitesimal. Would it then not be conceivable something could travel faster than light if it had less mass.
first try to understand what mass is (rest mass, inertial mass, gravitational mass)
Everything has mass. Think of it as a real esate problem. Location location location.
If you take a 900 mile long piece of string and lay it out flat how you going to weigh it? If you roll it up to fit on the scale it has mass if you don't it doesn't. Photons have mass not a hell of a lot of it but they have mass. They just stretch themselves out over enough space that you can't weigh them.
Actually you can. If you build a reflective solar sail and point it at the sun. It will accelerate away from the sun. The majority of particles hitting it are photons so you are accelerating the sale f=ma. If you are accelerating something with photons they have mass because they have force. And their mass is force / acceleration. The problem is unknowns. You don't how many photons strike the sale to produce a measurable acceleration. If you did you wouldn't have a 2 unknowns 1 equation problem. You'd have a 1 unknown 1 equation and could solve it for the mass of an single photon.
Anything that fits in the electromagnetic category of physics has mass. So saying some of the neutrino's which don't have any charge whatsoever not even in the slightest have mass is crazy. You can't have mass without electromagnetic categorization.
Newtonian physics SEEMED perfect for quite a while till it was proven wrong, or at least till it was tweaked, but still it does not explain everything, same with relativity, it seems to explain almost everything on a grand scale, but it is worthless at the subatomic quantum scale. Quantum mechanics explains a lot at a super small scale, but almost nothing of practical value on the scale in which we live our lives. It could be, just thinking out loud here, that they do govern their respective regions of the universe on the scales which they exist, but in string theory there are many added dimensions that would have their own rules, some affecting ours in subtle ways, some unimaginable to us. In the dimension that we can actually perceive there is relativity, in the super subatomic which we know we also occupy, our bodies are made of atom and thus sub atoms that are just too small for us to see, still on that scale we also are subject to quantum laws. If there are other unseen dimensions with other laws in effect they may well affect us and yet since we can't fathom them we can't postulate what their rules of behavior are.
Same with economics. You and I doing business together, or you hoarding PM's, that is quantum, microeconomic, but the government and the Fed, ForEx and the equity and debt markets, they operate by a different physics, it is macro and relativistic. But, there could be higher math,bigger physic behind the whole mass of it we just do not understand yet. Knowing about them does not mean life can be corrected of deficiencies, or should be, character is built through experience not theory.
Reminds me of a line in a book I read: "What makes love stay"?
What makes love stay? Is that the secret? Does love stay because it is made to stay?
"Your check is in the mail."
I won't ... oh nvm.
- Ned
"Cocktail party stocks ..." -- LOL
It would take Bruce Krasting logic to lambast Keynesian theory based on reaching wrong conclusions. If it is possible to travel faster than the speed of light, contrary to the limits observed by Einstein, it is may also be possible that Keynesian spending limits are by far greater than those perceived to by the Austrians or pseudo economists espousing right wing think agenda.
If ... may also be possible, ... therefore the right sucks. Got it.
"How the Matterium will allow [temporal ownership] to express is clearly open to speculation, at least for a brief few months. If our data is correct, the [foundations] of the [temporal ownership] meme will be [visible] before the end of this year. To those who know where, and more importantly, how to look. Like my Pappy from Missouri used to say, “boy, you can have your eyes wide open, but if your mind is shut, you ain't gonna see a damn thing!""
~ clif high , halfpasthuman.com , 10-19-2011
right on the money.
now, is time a derivative of money or is money a derivative of time?