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Head Of Iran's Revolutionary Guards: "A War With Israel Will Occur"

Tyler Durden's picture


Even as the popular ADHD affliction is preoccupied with who paid what taxes, and whether this poll shows that guy on top or this one, until tomorrow when they flip providing even more meaningless chitchat opportunities, everyone appears to have once again lost sight of the big picture, which is that two US ships continue full steam ahead toward Iran, namely the CVN-74 Stennis aircraft carrier which has crossed the Pacific ocean and is now a week away from its target, and the LHA 5 Peleliu big deck amphibious warfare ship, where they will join two other aircraft carriers and the LHD 7 Iwo Jima as summarized by the graphic below. Why is US naval presence in the Gulf soaring to a concentration not seen since the last Gulf war? The head of the Iran revolutionary guard may have an idea. From Reuters: Israel will eventually go beyond threats and will attack Iran, the commander of Iran's Revolutionary Guards was quoted as saying on Saturday.

As speculation mounts that Israel could launch air strikes on Iran before U.S. elections in November, Mohammad Ali Jafari told a news conference that the Jewish state would be destroyed if it took such a step. "Their threats only prove that their enmity with Islam and the revolution is serious, and eventually this enmity will lead to physical conflict," Jafari said when asked about Israeli threats to strike Iran's nuclear facilities, the Iranian Students' News Agency (ISNA) reported.


"We are making all efforts to increase our defensive capabilities so that if there is an attack ... we could defend ourselves and other countries that need our help with high defensive capabilities."

And just to be clear:

"A war will occur, but it's not clear where or when it will be," Jafari was quoted as saying on Saturday. "Israel seeks war with us, but it's not clear when the war will occur."

"Right now they see war as the only method of confrontation," he said.

And when a war does break out, the only question is what China, Russia and India will do. Iran's stance is clear:  "If they (Israel) start something, they will be destroyed and it will be the end of the story for them," Jafari said, according to ISNA.

One thing is guarranteed: in one-two weeks US naval presence in the 5th Fleet will be unprecedented, consisting of at least 3 US aircraft carriers, and 2 amphibious warfare groups, excluding any other naval support the rest of the developed world will throw in.

In other words, if for some reason the US needs a big diversion in the days just before the election, it is sure to get it.


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Sat, 09/22/2012 - 09:49 | 2820066 blindman
blindman's picture

Jesse Ventura Embarasses Piers Morgan in Front of CNN Audience
Posted on September 21, 2012
This is pretty epic.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 10:04 | 2820083 Monedas
Monedas's picture

They are the same Socialist shit .... except Ventura gets the 2nd amendment right and agrees with Ron Paul about stupid nation building !

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 10:31 | 2820123 Precious
Precious's picture

The "war" started long ago with the planting of the Stuxnet virus.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:02 | 2820172 blindman
blindman's picture

Friday September 21 9:00am
1 hour
Guns and Butter
bonnie faulkner interviews catherin austn fitts.
unpacking mr. global. pt 3.
Unpacking Mr. Global, Part Two — Catherine Austin Fitts on Guns & Butter
stuff you gotta watch.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:26 | 2820219 Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

Gee, with nuclear-armed neighbors like Israel around I wonder why Iran wants their own nukes?

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:34 | 2820232 blindman
blindman's picture

total mystery.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:52 | 2820266 Votewithabullet
Votewithabullet's picture

...another mystery is why would a cuntry w/out newclear weapons openly taunt and call for the total defuckingstruction of a neighboring country that has them? Fucking ...dumb dumb dumb dummmmmmb dumb, trust me I dont want it , I will be very pissed if it happens butt fuck it they have oil and they OPENLY SAY CRAZY SHIT, real men dont buy land, they take it...

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 12:01 | 2820291 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

war boosts popularity of incumbent politicians.


israel elites must be desparate.


I hope israel launches couple missiles, damage iran, then china and russia annilates israel, and us bombs iran.


then no more middle east conflict.


Let Israel and Iran go kill each other in name of religion......with arms purchased frrom US and russia.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 12:13 | 2820310 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

An interesting idea, but too much could (would) go wrong.

Vote NO to war by buying gold!

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:20 | 2820464 markmotive
markmotive's picture

Civilization needs war. We need a common enemy to keep us cohesive.

The Report from Iron Mountain - Why Civilization Depends on War:

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:57 | 2820568 BigJim
BigJim's picture

 The Report from Iron Mountain - Why Civilization Depends on War

- brought to you by a bunch of guys whose above-average incomes entirely depend on... 'defense' spending. Hmmm.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 16:21 | 2820844 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Israel has an election Oct. 22 and the polls are not going Netanyahu's way, I believe.  If Netanyahu loses, then a certain momentum will be lost permanently.  So, Oct. 22: is it a drop dead date?

Previous Israeli wars have been nice, neat, quick affairs.  Nukes or no, this one will not be.  And Israel cannot stand up to a protracted fight.  At some point (within a week?) the pressure on the US to bail out Israel will be unsurmountable.  Hopefully a "no decision" can be negotiated with China and Russia, and the conflict can be limited to the middle east.   Madam Clinton is going to get her 3 AM phone call.


Sat, 09/22/2012 - 16:49 | 2820889 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Israel (read: Netanyahu) will attack Iran real soon because, via spike in oil/gas price, he hopes to get rid of Obama and bring in neo-con stooge Romney. Amerikwa (Obama) will support the Zionist aggression because Iran, like Libya and Iraq, needs to be shoved back onto the petrodollar. I'm somewhat surprised Netanyahu has waited this long to he's painted himself into a corner. And the paint ain't dryin'.  

Sun, 09/23/2012 - 01:41 | 2821501 TheGrandChessboard
TheGrandChessboard's picture

Lets assume you are right why didnt Israel bomb Iran back in 08 before the 2008 election so that john bomb bomb bomb iran mcain could win the election.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 19:56 | 2821095 sushi
sushi's picture

New moon is on the 15th so around this date is the likely time.

That gives roughly a week before Netanyahu is voted out of office leaving the world in flames. A great political legacy.

There was a recent MIT analysis of Syrian IADS (air defenses). Basic conclusion was that Syrian IADS would be very difficult for NATO to overcome ie an attack on Syria would not be as easy as the attack on Libya and this is the primary reason NATO is not pounding the table for some form of NATO enforced no fly zone.

If Syria is a tough nut to crack then one has to ask what about Iran? Greater geographical depth, much more rugged terrain, greater distance from Israel and likely as well armed.

I think we are all about to get a 3 AM phone call.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 21:24 | 2821192 dougngen
dougngen's picture

I hate to disagree with you and I don't have any concrete facts. But they said the same thing about Saddam and his "modern weaponry" provided by the soviets. I'm pretty sure the guys at the skunk works have not been lazy over the last decade.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 21:25 | 2821193 dougngen
dougngen's picture

I hate to disagree with you and I don't have any concrete facts. But they said the same thing about Saddam and his "modern weaponry" provided by the soviets. I'm pretty sure the guys at the skunk works have not been lazy over the last decade.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 22:31 | 2821258 JR
JR's picture

If Israel makes a pre-emptive strike on Iran it means an extensive war in the Middle East, perhaps the beginning of a world war. It’s an incredible step, and it’s my opinion that a lot of U.S. politicians are trying to avoid this by taking unfair measures, such as crippling sanctions, against the Iranian people.

These measures are meant to show the U.S. as strong as it can be without war.

The U.S. has not determined with any certainty that Iran is building a nuclear weapon, of course; in fact, the Aug. 30 International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) report, according to IPS, “reveals that Iran has actually reduced the amount of 20-percent enriched uranium available for any possible ‘breakout’ to weapons grade enrichment over the last three months rather than increasing it.”

So what we’re left with are damned-if-they-do-damned-if-they-don’t U.S. policies against Iran for developing peaceful nuclear power. Any other country would consider these sanctions as an act of war.

The truth is, of course, that this U.S. posturing by Obama and the Congress is meant to persuade a “pipsqueak nation with delusions of grandeur” not to make a military strike on Iran, even though Israel’s security and prosperity are entirely dependent on America’s generosity.

How can this be?

It turns out that America’s political system – the political parties, the Congress and the President – is highly susceptible to the pressure brought on behalf of Israel. First, there are the lobbyists, AIPAC and other pro-Israel groups, supplying politicians with big money and blackmailing those who don’t perform.

Then, there is a pro-Israel press, particularly in the Eastern Establishment, grinding out stories opposing Israel’s enemies.

And, more recently, the neoconservative movement has enlisted pro-Israel Christian groups to lobby and pound away against vulnerable politicians.

But most important of all is the fountainhead  from which flows the massive amount of cash for the military industrial complex,  foreign aid and the American Empire’s wars against the enemies of Israel--the Federal Reserve and the pro-Israel families who own the bank, and thus, control America’s currency and the power that goes with it..


Sat, 09/22/2012 - 23:18 | 2821303 Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture

Fderal law requires any group in the USA financed by a foreign nation to report such activity to the US govt.  Israel purchased, via political payoffs and religious pressure, the privelige of ignoring the law. 

There are about five Israeli financed groups operating in the USA. 

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 19:15 | 2821056 Tedster
Tedster's picture

I have a first edition copy of that book, a relative had a nice library that ended up with me for the time being. The first time I started to read it my thought was "this is a pantload.." Seriously. A quick google search, and found that the book is a fake.

The tell was, something to do with copyright. Look it up, you'll find the same. Just sayin'.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 12:24 | 2820333 john39
john39's picture

US senate passed a resolution last night that all but locks the U.S. into another war to benefit Israel....  this is beyond disgusting:

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 22:39 | 2821267 RichardP
RichardP's picture

... a resolution ... that all but locks the U.S. into another war ...

Huh?? From your link:

The bill text ended with the statement: "Nothing in this resolution shall be construed as an authorization for the use of force or a declaration of war."

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 12:29 | 2820345 JR
JR's picture

Aldous, no matter what people say, there is a right and wrong in the world. And to throw all the innocents into the pit of firebombs, torture and endless slaughter is perhaps mankind's most evil inclination. Surely, at this point, this can be resisted.

“[H]undreds of patriotic Iranian Jews…continue to live in their ancient motherland nation of Iran and add to its rich culture and civilization.” -- from Iranian Jews to Israel: Our National Identity Is Not for Sale

Here are the words of the Honorable Representative Morris Motamed, Jewish Member of Iranian Parliament (Majle), 2007 regarding an Israeli “offer of $10,000 per person” for Iranian Jews to repatriate to Israel, which Iranian Jews said “constitutes bribery and outmost disrespect” to their “honor and patriotism” which “is NOT for sale” :

“The identity of Iranian Jews is not tradable for any amount of money.

“Jewish Iranian identity is not a commodity that passes from the hands of one merchant to another in return for money.

“Iranian Jews are among the most ancient Iranians. Iran’s Jews love their Iranian identity and their culture, so threats and this immature political enticement will not achieve their aim of wiping out the identity of Iranian Jews.”


Sat, 09/22/2012 - 12:52 | 2820391 john39
john39's picture

somehow americans need to break free of the mind control that dictates that "good" or "civilized" people must support israel at all costs....  ignorance is no excuse when it comes to supporting murder and immoral wars.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 14:34 | 2820662 Anusocracy
Sat, 09/22/2012 - 14:54 | 2820697 akak
akak's picture

I don't see a single Wal-Mart, Starbucks or Carls Jr. in any of those photos.

Obviously, the Iranians are pure barbarians.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 16:04 | 2820817 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Worse than that - the only apples are in the produce markets.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 16:38 | 2820869 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Iranians have real assets like oil under ground

America have fiat in banks


American elites don't like Iranians become rich. must pull them down to american capitalism.

Sun, 09/23/2012 - 01:11 | 2821470 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Nope, Apple products are popular over there, and US iphones get hacked for use on their networks.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 16:39 | 2820875 knukles
knukles's picture

No Lloyd's pork baby back rib shoppes, Smithfield spiral ham outlets.... how can they survive?
Need Democracy Now!


where are my carriers?

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 19:34 | 2821075 prains
prains's picture

I don't see a single Wal-Mart, Starbucks or Carls Jr. in any of those photos.


missing kentucky fried pork for some strange reason as well

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 15:51 | 2820803 bankruptcylawyer
bankruptcylawyer's picture

somehow you fools , many of whom are just disguised anti-semites but not all, need to focus on america's petro-dollar addiction, the american dependence on controlling saudi and emirati oil  for financial and military dominance by AMERICAN oil and weaponry oligarachs.


yes yes, it's all israel and aipacs fault that america is involved in the middle east. of course. the cold war, americas rise to power after wwii, and the american global imperial force with military bases all around the world and masssive petroleum requirments , plus the giant bubble of american national debt that relies upon a stable international demand for dollar rooted in the control of the middle eastern oil markets couldn't be an AMERICAN reason that AMERICAN CORPORATIONS go to war. blaming israel is scapegoat bullshit. it will not solve your problems. america would sacrifice israel if it neeed to do so in order for the american oligarchy to continue controlling the middle east. and they will conitinue to control it for their own benefit.


just because israel has a mutually beneficial relationship with israel doens't absolve you, as an american, from the mistake of ignoring the domestic AMERICAN causes of the american military's aggressive position taken principally to benefit the AMERICAN , OIL  GUNS AND BANKING interests.

 the refuge of the israel haters is then to blame the american jews for allegedly controlling all of america. yes of course, the jpmorgans, and rockefellers and waltons, and smith and wessons and boeings of the world they are all secret jews of course. even if they do go to church. everyone who is part of the problem is claimed to be a jew, and if not that, then they are a muslim or some 'other' group. scapegoating is the refuge of the person unwilling to identify the specific interests and specific families that own these interests and to confront the difficult of neutralizing their influence.


people seem so easily convinced of the distraction tactics of government propoganda that they overlook the oldest distraction tactic in the book. scapegoating minority groups. 



Sat, 09/22/2012 - 16:54 | 2820898 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

So bankruptcy lawyer is a Jew. Who Knew?

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 20:00 | 2821102 sushi
sushi's picture


just because israel has a mutually beneficial relationship with israel 

End Quote

I suspected this was true. Thanks for the confirmation.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:35 | 2820501 Conchy Joe
Conchy Joe's picture

...but make that 25K and we're out of here!

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:56 | 2820502 Conchy Joe
Conchy Joe's picture

They could just catch the redeye from Tehran to Jerusalem and be there in no time. Just check "vacation" on the forms and it should all be good.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:55 | 2820560 cjbosk
cjbosk's picture

190 per barrel oil doesn't do anything for the incumbent but toss him on his ass where he belongs. That's what happens when Israel starts lobbing bombs over there. Obozo wants nothing to do with an Iranian conflict, those are his "peeps" over there.

Israel will knock the snot out of Iran, and I don't think it will last but a few short weeks. Oil up, Obozo out, that simple. Netanyahu HATES Obama...and I totally understand why. Obozo is the greatest embarrassment to the nation and the world. Israel made it clear, they're not waiting, nor do they need to, for the U.S. to support this initiative.

Down with Iran! Once and for all.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 14:10 | 2820594 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture


Sat, 09/22/2012 - 14:30 | 2820649 Renewable Life
Renewable Life's picture

Hey "bro", ever heard of the US statistic oil reserve???
Oil will hit 150 yes, then uncle sam takes control of shit from there!!

Next bullshit myth: Israel will mop up Iran.....those clowns couldn't ever dig out hezbollah in Lebanon, 5 years ago, you think they'll take on Iran and be done in 2 weeks????!!!!!!
Please, get real!!

But don't worry, we will give you all the glory, you can fly those antiquated fighter jets you have and make a lot of noise and puff yourselves up, and your uncle Sam will follow behind with stealth bunker busters and EMP attacks, followed by cruise missiles and our special forces!!

There all better, and bibi and you can go on thinking your big dicks again!!!

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 23:04 | 2821284 sullymandias
sullymandias's picture

Oh yeah, those statistic oil reserves, that'll show em bro.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 19:38 | 2821080 Sparkey
Sparkey's picture

Perhaps you are a `Troll` cjbosk , I don't know much about these things, I will say; If you work for salt, you give your employeer bene for your wages, if you do it only for the love of the game and the righteousness your cause you are a master Dancer on the floor of literacy. I don't see the World through your lenses, still I've  read your stuff and marveled at your control of the work.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 17:10 | 2820916 Divided States ...
Divided States of America's picture

I agree, take out 2 birds with one stone. I could care less if the Middle East (especially Israel) was wiped off the face of the Earth. Makes for a much better life for everyone else if that happened.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 19:06 | 2821048 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

I can see a war starting 3 weeks before election and the obamabots telling us that now is not the time to change leadership, we all need to support the president. Rah Rah Rah. 

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 21:44 | 2821210 prains
prains's picture

and you're not used to this by now, this is not the first or last time and required no specific party affiliation GO RED errr GO BLUE err GO RUE

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 14:40 | 2820676 blindman
blindman's picture

i doubt there has ever been one accurate
translation or contextual report to a western
audience of anything that was ever said in iran.
period. western media does not report that stuff,
they just misrepresent it to steal from the treasury.
it has been going on like this for at least half
a century with regards to one country or another,
you would think that a few people would have noticed
by now? of course when it comes to looting many
eyes go blind but as has been said..
" not every closed eye is sleeping." or something
like that?

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 19:01 | 2821045 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

This Guy with the weird name is clearly unhinged, a monster I say, a monster.



Husk, for one misses Muamar.  The dude had a certain bizzaro style... the all hot ninja girls personal elite body guard... pitching a bedouin tent in the middle of an American city on a state visit... I always felt there was a bone dry sense of humor at work.  He didn't deserve to be lynched and sodomized by ignorant mercs and have Hillary Clinton chortling over his death.



In the name of God who loves human beings.


My dear brother:

I, you, we and all of us are pursuing truth and happiness for human beings, which is unfortunately a victim of world powers.

This is a historical opportunity to undermine all inhuman relations and put an end to prejudices, which have questioned the truths and separates them, to build a new beautiful world based on love, justice and beauty.

This is a historical and certainly achievable objective. It only needs our hands, minds and hearts to join each other.

I pray Great God to bless you, who love humanity and wish success for all. I hope to meet you in a better future.


M. Ahmadinejad

September 8, 2012

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 23:30 | 2821313 RichardP
RichardP's picture

(signed) M. Ahmadinejad

Delivered with roses to his Sunni bretheren??  Oh wait, you mean this letter applies only if you believe the same as M?  Everyone else is an infidel and should be eliminated?  That kind of love has staying power.

Mon, 09/24/2012 - 02:40 | 2823526 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

no. delivered from a unicorn, coming from a rainbow, while skittles were raining

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 16:22 | 2820850 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Russia annihilates Israel, yeah good luck with that..  Your forgetting to read a book...

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:47 | 2820540 cjbosk
cjbosk's picture

You say that as if Iran is a civilized nation? Surely you can't be that stupid...although Obama did become president so I suppose anything is possible.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 23:35 | 2821327 Overfed
Overfed's picture

It was US meddling that put the Ayatollah (and thus, Islam) in power.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:03 | 2820175 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

The US would "respond to hostile acts in cyberspace as we would to any other threat to our country", stated the White House in plain terms.

"We reserve the right to use all necessary means - diplomatic, informational, military, and economic - as appropriate and consistent with applicable international law, in order to defend our nation, our allies, our partners and our interests." -

The Iranian government is behind cyber attacks this week that have targeted the websites of JPMorgan Chase and Bank of America, NBC News is reporting, citing national security officials. -

So yes it has already begun. Shhhhhh, don't tell anyone.


Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:48 | 2820255 laomei
laomei's picture

False flag... it's how the US loves to start wars.  What do you think that slew of new viruses targetting Iran were intended for?  Setup Iranian botnet, launch attack from the US on US sites, show traffic was from Iran, blame Iran.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 12:15 | 2820317 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Since when is JPMorgan Chase and Bank of America, NBC News credible sources?

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:28 | 2820486 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

Yom Kippur upcoming, Wed. 26 Sept. - "High Holy Days" - also coincidentally used as a naming of Israel vs. "Arab" states War back in OCT 1973. . . virtually all the same players agitated currently.

who knows.  but I'll add that there is a Harvest Full Moon on Sat. 29, and even though I realise most here give no credence to any planetary alignments, I'll just say that the day/degree (7-8dg) will not pass without notice, somewhere in the world. . .

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 12:06 | 2820303 DanP1966
DanP1966's picture

Agreed but maybe even sooner witht he assasinations of Iranian scientists.


Anyone else notice the the GW seems to be moving in that direction too?


And it appears that the Iwo Jima is in the AOR.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 10:06 | 2820087 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Schooled. I am surprised the "interview" was even released. 

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 10:23 | 2820112 Lost Wages
Lost Wages's picture

Of course it was released. Even though Ventura speaks the truth about many things, he is a disinformationist. Along with some truths, he mixes in nonsense about aliens and recycles the same old tired conspiracies people have recycled forever. Sure it's refreshing to hear someone talk openly about 9/11 on mainstream TV, but nothing gets on mainstream TV the powerful don't want you to see. At one point during the interview, Richard Belzer ran up and whispered some debate tips in Jesse's ear. It was all very surreal. Even though Piers was "getting his ass handed to him," I don't quite trust the whole spectacle.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 12:35 | 2820295 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

It was pretty surreal to watch Ventura and that MSM puke talk hypothetically about how a foreign country's PACs could buy and control our politicians - ISRAEL / AIPAC, anyone?

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:37 | 2820507 rayduh4life
rayduh4life's picture

Uh, Sheldon Adelson - Macau casinos, Foreign Corrupt Services Act ring a bell?

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:18 | 2820456 Simplifiedfrisbee
Simplifiedfrisbee's picture

To look beyond the outer workings of man is to see the inner workings of truth. Ventura loves his rock star status. Observe how he thirsts for and soaks up the fame and power. He is simply another branch from the same Satanist tree.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 10:35 | 2820132 blindman
blindman's picture

this thing about controlling the narrative
as to direct the anger in such a way as to
protect or serve the authority is something
which empire has experience. it is their art,
they call it the art of governance i think.
after ww II when the borders and such were
set up in the middle east empire organized the
countries so that there would be, always, the
potential for internal conflict to distract
the masses from the foreign overlords.
a retired high school history teacher told me that,
or something like it and it makes sense.
maybe just divide and conquer ...? never allow the
people to come together, think clearly, tell their
own stories or feel safe. if you do they may
kick you out and thrive leaving no exploitative
benefit to the foreign overlords.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 10:12 | 2820097 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

In Cambridge English, Morgan's normal affected accent, one drops the R's and puts them on the end of words where they don't belong, like CUBAR.  The great thing is, his name becomes  PIIIIISSSSSSSSSS!

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 10:55 | 2820122 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

Jesse Ventura is the man!!

Brilliant!! Thanks.

Edit: Agree with the comments by Lost Wages above.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 10:55 | 2820160 blindman
blindman's picture

[10] Jesse Ventura: Break the Two Party Dictatorship, Impunity for American War Crimes

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:14 | 2820194 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

Im getting confused now.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:40 | 2820237 blindman
blindman's picture

why? or how so?
in the headline "break" also applies to
"impunity" i think is what they meant to say.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:45 | 2820252 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

Was kidding.

I agree with what I've heard from him so far but Lost Wages also makes some credible points.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:54 | 2820273 blindman
blindman's picture

many messages communicated in a simple conversation,
the stuff that goes presumed or assumed to be
accepted without question, frequently these are
the memes being reinforced to the audience. in the
interview at the top the meme was, and went unquestioned,
that obl was killed in 2011. question, is that true
or was he already dead in 2003 or 2001?
information and disinformation .

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 12:04 | 2820298 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

OBL had been dead. The compound they raided belonged to his family.. wives and kids.

US wanted to take his kid or 2 for interrogation or media circus as evidence and credibility but Pak army was also at the scene and they did'nt let them for whatever reasons.

Hence the burial at sea under "strictest Islamic tradions" etc.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 23:06 | 2821288 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Don't forget Morgan's claim that the "hijackers" could not be tried because they were all "dead" or something to that effect. Since Morgan touts the BBC, I wonder why Ventura did not bring up how many were proven to be alive after the incident (a story BBC broke), and I wonder why he didn't bother to mention that Mueller, as a result of being confronted with this gaping hole in the official narrative, admitted, quite publicly, that the "hijackers" must have been "victims of identity theft."

There is much more solid info that Ventura could have mentioned besides the BBC video, and that is a bit suspicious. I hear no mention of nanothermite or the obvious demolitions of the three buildings. I also hear no mention of the drills, which would have been an excellent retort to Morgan's claim that no one in the Bush admin could have known what was going to happen.

Yes, very suspicious.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:46 | 2820202 Randall Cabot
Randall Cabot's picture

Crypto-zionist Alex Jones canceled followup interview with Steve Pieczenik Tuesday after Pieczenik critized Netanyahu and said israel did 911 on the Sunday radio show:

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:50 | 2820259 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Yeah, what was up with that?... That Sunday interview was great...

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:19 | 2820349 Randall Cabot
Randall Cabot's picture

Alex Jones works for the jew supremacists, his job as a disinfo agent is to divert attention and culpability from them. Jones evidently thought that the jewish Pieczenik wouldn't say anything truthful about Netanyahu, israel and 911 but Pieczenik caught Jones completely off guard. Jones regained his composure aferward and cancelled the followup interview.

Jones is now attempting damage control and has gone full retard on his website and is running a ridiculous story about Nazis from the Daily Mail which is akin to The World Weekly News:

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:34 | 2820493 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

It was clear Pieczenik caught Jonesstein off guard... He kept trying to go to commercial when things got heated up (lol)...

I gotta admit... I don't know much about SP (until now)... But, at minumum, I'd say he deserves a listen... (His "Hilary" praise was odd though)...


Note: francis_sawyer has ZERO to profit or loss from this...

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 14:24 | 2820623 Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

Even notwithstanding the crypto-zionist part, at best, he is a useful idiot. His constant focus on fear and anger is a profoundly disempowering attitude. There is obvious subliminal messages of fear and submittance strewn around his "greatest works", while the endless litany of bad news, unbalanced with ways to overcome the problems facing us or any kind of greater spiritual truth programs his followers hypnotically to be stuck in negative mindsets.

That is what the matrix feeds on; fear, anger and disempowerment. Righteous anger can give rise to empowerment through acceptance of the reality (not "acceptance" as in, this is how it should be, but rather as in, this is the situation as it currently is so let's face it). However, he channels anger into hate and resentment, thereby nullifying and corrupting this great source of energy.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 15:01 | 2820723 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture


Good sum up!

Mon, 09/24/2012 - 14:45 | 2825265 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

bang on, fear is the mind-killer and AJ's the resident doom-bully.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:20 | 2820465 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

Jonestein is controlled dissent.  His job is to obfuscate the truth, and make the issue so convoluted talking about globalist, knights templars, bavarian death that the focus is never on Israel and Zionism.


How many times has he mentioned the Israelis arrested on 9/11 for blowing up the 'mural van' on King St.?  The two Israelis arrested on 9/11 near the GW bridge in another van filled with explosives?  The 5 'Dancing Israelis' arrested in NJ after witnesses reported them recording and celebrating the first impact of the north tower?

Sun, 09/23/2012 - 01:18 | 2821477 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Plenty of times actually.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:19 | 2820427 Element
Element's picture

Yeah, I don't trust Alex Jones one bit. The other day he had this Jewish-guy on, a fiction writer for Tom Clancy novels, a former Colonel in Psy-ops and worked for State Dept and Israeli Govts, who praises the recent work of Killary Clinton and Obomba, saying what a great job they were doing, and the head of CIA also, and American Generals, in general.

Except these are actually the very culprits most directly responsible for killing millions of innocent people, in several wars, and the terrible waves of brutal carnage over the past 11 years. Other than that (and let's face it, who doesn't have little flaws like having killed millions of people) they're just great people.

So Alex Jones gave the guy a pulpit to say all this crap, without Jones even challenging it or batting an eye-lid.  And then half way through the interview Jones has the cheek to say that he doesn't think the listeners are idiots!  And then he says, hey, your jewish right?  And this guy says "yeah, I'm a Jew, I came out of the HOLOCAUST"! 

But look at the guy, How old is he?  And how long ago did the Holocaust end?  So you do the math, did this guy "come out of the Holocaust"?  No he did not!

So what does Alex Jones do?  Well, he treats this professional lying arsehole like some sort of hero, and invites him back to spew more of his insane propaganda and lies to the listeners, the following week.  

Check it out:

Alex Jones is definitely no journalist or truth teller, as far as I'm concerned.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:22 | 2820469 Randall Cabot
Randall Cabot's picture

Yeah, that's Pieczenik. Jones didn't have a problem with the guy until he opened up about israel, netanyahu and 911.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:47 | 2820542 Element
Element's picture

Yeah, Sorry, I realised that was who you were referring to after I had already replied.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw what was going on in that interview.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:46 | 2820534 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

Even Alex Jones??? I've only seen a few of his videos/interviews and I thought he was a reasonble guy???

Any link to the video in question, where Alex got his feathers rufflled please?

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 14:14 | 2820588 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

It's more of a taped PHONE interview...


Sat, 09/22/2012 - 14:08 | 2820590 blindman
blindman's picture

Insider: U.S. Ambassador Killing an Inside Job!
this might be it?

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 14:22 | 2820621 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture


Saw it. Clearly he was caught offguard in the end about Netanyahu and 911 thing and him going all apologetic it being unexpected and shocking. Would have thought, it would be the "breaking news" a journalist like him would be after.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 21:14 | 2821180 Element
Element's picture

Funny thing is though, as so often with Alex Jones, no evidence is provided, just hollow claims.  Words are cheap.  The compelling 'evidence' of the validity and worth of what was being claimed was apparently meant to be found in the credentials of this professional assistant fiction-writer, an admitted professional Jewish propagandist for the white House and the Knesset, who was making the un-backed claims.

Sorry, this crap does not cut it and it never will.

It's the opposite of good-enough.  It would be and should be unacceptable for a real journalist to do what Jones did within that video interview.  And keep in mind, he said he spoke to the guy for 45 mins the day before the interview ('breaking news' huh? ... so how was he "caught off guard?" when he knew what was coming?) so Jones knew what the claim was going to be, and several times asked the guy to get back to what they had talked about.  But no, the fictionist wanted to spin a pile of warped prefacing all around it first. So where's the substantiation Jones?  Got anything more than this guy, and your combined hot-air?

People can either hold the guy's feet to the fire over his alleged claims, or they can enjoy being lied to and bullshitted on indefinitely, because he sure isn't going to stop doing that when he's making money out of it.  He's not informing anyone with rot like that and he's not uncovering and providing the 'truth' to anyone, not enlightening or awakening anyone either.

All he's really doing in that interview is selling fricken in-house weight-loss pills!  i.e. he's a scammer.  Think not?  Take a look at Alex Jones himself in that interview video, and ask yourself, do these pills really work?  Obviously not!  But you can bet he'll go on a diet and exercise regime now so he doesn't look like such a sham.  Because diet and exercise actually work.

So by default I don't believe a word Alex Jones says, as he's demonstrated repeatedly that he's not awakening anyone, or encouraging them to use and develop their own capacities to think and work through things themselves.  But he will keep saying, "hey, you don't have to take my word for it", blah blah. 

My own take on Alex Jones is that he's there not to move things forward, but due to the recognition that things are being discovered and worked out a bit to quickly, so how do we slow that down and sew confusion, to dissipate such progress that's being made elsewhere?  So yeah, Jones and co gets in there to discuss the nitty gritty, but he isn't there to actually move it forward, because with him each step forward ends up being baseless BS and nonsense, that ends up being two-steps backwards, in retrospect.

Sun, 09/23/2012 - 01:07 | 2821467 i-dog
i-dog's picture


"he's not awakening anyone"

Be careful not to paint with too broad a brush. 

My awakening actually began with AJ -- with his significant exposure of the 9-11 sham. (A business partner had insisted I look into WTC7 before further dismissing his "conspiracy theories").

However, I went beyond AJ and also took in many other limited hangouts ... to see what each was exposing while also attempting to determine what each was trying to hide (since none agreed with each other on who were the culprits!) and also using to discredit itself.

In this way, I also found the Jesuit link to Zionism (the two most famous Jesuits of all time - Ignatius Loyola and Adam Weishaupt - were both crypto-Jews of Ashkenazi-Khazarian families) and the Jesuit-Zionist foundations of Bilderberg, the CFR, Bohemian Grove, John Birch Society and the Council for National Policy. From there, I went on to find a consistent and non-contradictory trail right through history and into all of the current positions of power in the US and Europe (and Australia, too, by the way).

A limited hangout -- whether AJ, or Wikileaks, or Icke, or Tarpley, or Pieczenik, or Keiser, or .... -- can serve to awaken on some topics, though they are primarily designed to divide and confuse on other topics.

For example: David Icke's website contains much incriminating background on the Jesuits but he never personally links them to the Zionists. He also provides a ready means to discredit any truth that he may expose by also banging on about "lizard people" and "ahape-shifters". David Icke is also a high-level Freemason - ie. a Zionist. :-/

AJ is not over bright, so he finds it difficult to disguise his body language and disruptive tactics. For this reason, I prefer to watch his interviews rather than just listening to his podcasts. One can learn a lot more that way.

As you have often pointed out, one must do one's own research and attempt to piece together a consistent and non-contradictory picture of what is really happening and who is behind it. Accepting any one person's views as a complete or accurate picture would be folly.

Sun, 09/23/2012 - 03:04 | 2821563 Element
Element's picture

Thank you i-dog.  You are right in those respects.

I do listen to people like AJ from time to time, but I sure don't seek him out.  Like you I have serious reservations with all of that type of online operation with the charismatic dude and dude-ess.  I can't abide Icke, nor Ventura or Veterans Today myself.  This is mainly because what they say is often erroneous, or obvious bollocks from first principles.  The supposed truth they come out with daily is commercial pap.  And most of their commenters have no clue or ability to think objectively.

I must be mentally allergic to them, because I can sniff them out very quickly.  So from a young age I've always had a keen sense of the illusion-making going on.  Like any other talent/skill/habit some are better at it than others, while others almost no capacity for it.  The extraordinary thing I keep coming back to is that all these people like Alex Jones have the sorts of connections and background you mention (and usually a staff of the same ilk).

So painting with a broad brush is one way to put people on notice to really look closely all these people, because you won't find one of them that is not slipping in stuff they wanted you to believe, without further questioning of veracity and making basic reality-checks.  So I take it as given they're all up to no good, but that does not change the fact that about 90% of what they say is also going to be true.

So I would rather encourage people to not fall for any of it (especially muck like that AJ video).  Don't risk swallowing a hook they are fishing with.  They're specifically looking for 'fans' and duped hero-worshipers, chumps and donor-sponsors, that will row their boats for them, as a 'truth community'.  

So I say beware of it, reject every bit of it, look more directly at real world facts then fully explore the implications of those facts.  Unfortunately, most people have a habit of accepting any explanation they find and get immediately 'stuck' on a few ideas.  As you know, Govts and organisations know all about this tendency and exploit it to the maximum.  But if you reject it all by default, until you've done your own checking and thinking, then their BS can't weigh you down for long.  I think you know what I mean.

Sun, 09/23/2012 - 12:12 | 2822070 Randall Cabot
Randall Cabot's picture

"In this way, I also found the Jesuit link to Zionism (the two most famous Jesuits of all time - Ignatius Loyola and Adam Weishaupt - were both crypto-Jews of Ashkenazi-Khazarian families) and the Jesuit-Zionist foundations of Bilderberg, the CFR, Bohemian Grove, John Birch Society and the Council for National Policy."

Weishaupt, who was a jew, was an infiltrator into the Jesuits and later the Freemasons for the puropse of subversion and takeover to advance jew supremacism.

I have never been able to find any credible evidence that Ignatius Loyola was a jew so until I see some I will continue to believe that this crypto-jew business about him is disinfo.

Mon, 09/24/2012 - 05:55 | 2823577 i-dog
i-dog's picture


"Weishaupt, who was a jew, was an infiltrator into the Jesuits"

LOL ... Is that what the Jesuits told you? ... ROFL

He was a Sabbatean Jew who converted to Catholicism, along with all of Jacob Frank's other followers, and was adopted by his Jesuit godfather, at age 7, upon his Frankist father's death. He was then tutored by Jesuits and eventually became the Chair of Canon Law, a Jesuit discipline, due to his godfather's considerable influence (ie. notwithstanding the banning of the Jesuits in Bavaria).

There is plenty of other evidence on both Weishaupt and Loyola - including a very direct link to Yale's Skull & Bones - that they were both Khazarian crypto-Jews and hard-core Jesuits, but I can't be bothered expanding on all the details in a dead thread.

The Jesuits are the intellectual core of the Khazarian Jews and the NWO, while the Venetian and Jewish bankers look after the money and finance Jesuit-directed commerce (particularly the illegal drug, slave, porn, arms and other tax-free trades). Yet the Jesuits are neither real Jews nor real Catholics ... they are a distinct race and separate ideology altogether (and generally called "luciferians").

Check some of my older posts ... and take off your blinkers....

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 10:43 | 2820136 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

Piers Morgan defends a ridiculous conspiracy theory as the truth.  It requires you to believe that 19 hijackers (at least 6 of them alive after 9/11) get control over 4 jets with boxcutters and then fly them without any training,  while NORAD goes to sleep, and accurately hit buildings that collapse at free fall speed and submicron dust and then the debris burns for 3 months, a third buiding collapses symmetrically later at free fall speed and also with pyroclastic flows, Pentagon is almost impossibly hit at near ground level and the plane evaporates, a passport survives unscathed while black boxes are destroyed, nanothermite is found in WTC dust   ... the list of virtually impossible events is endless. Yes, Piers Morgan, your English accent makes it all so credible.

The contempt that the mainstream media have for the intelligence of the American people is infinite.  New polls show that 60% of the American people have little or no confidence in the media now, but who are the 40% who still do?

"A new Gallup poll released on Friday found that U.S. distrust in the media hit a record high."

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:43 | 2820247 Peachfuzz
Peachfuzz's picture

Same 40 percent I see shuffling around walmart getting fatter all the time, somehow thinking shits gonna get better. Oh, and my stupid fucking neighbor that thinks Ryan/Romney are gonna turn this country around because they said so on Fox. Maybe he's right, some turds spin around several times before they finally go down the commode.

Makes me appreciate that Isaac Asimov comment on here yesterday. " The problem with democracy is it makes your opinion equal to my knowledge and experience." or something along those lines... /rant

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 19:18 | 2821060 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

some turds spin around several times before they finally go down the commode

Husk will be using this at some perfectly opportune moment...LOL...uparrow :-)

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 12:27 | 2820336 LasVegasDave
LasVegasDave's picture

Agree 100%

The theory that 19 stupid, goat fucking arabs could defeat the entire US defense complex is almost as crazy a theory as that a group of men from the most despised, hunted religion in world history could control every aspect of society.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 15:40 | 2820790 20-20 Hindsight
20-20 Hindsight's picture

Piers Morgan and Donald Trump are great friends... 'nuff said.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 09:53 | 2820067 chunga
chunga's picture

Remember, remember the 5th of November.

The gunpowder treason and plot. I know of no reason why the gunpowder treason should ever be forgot.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 09:53 | 2820068 IridiumRebel
Sat, 09/22/2012 - 10:43 | 2820140 Cole Younger
Cole Younger's picture

Iran is nothing compared to the technologies the U.S. has, Once command and control is knocked out (which it will be the first day) they will go down fast. It will end up being a war no different than Iraq. Same tactics of IED's but in the end, it will have the same results..I actually think the Iranian people want the U.S. to come in.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 10:47 | 2820149 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

.....and only another 3-5 trillion to do it!


Lets get to 20 tril debt quickly so we can get to a trillion in interest yearly.




Sat, 09/22/2012 - 10:50 | 2820153 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

You just made the biggest mistake in the art of warfare. You under estimated your opponet. You assume this war will be between just the U.S. and Iran. Conducted as a typical military on military battle. FAIL. All information available points to a war much larger in scope. MUCH LARGER.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:12 | 2820189 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

You forgot Hezbollah vs the Israeli citizenry.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 12:02 | 2820293 mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

That shit will end pretty damn quick when Israeli casualties get high enough, and they start leveling residential areas in the Gaza strip and Lebanon that Hezbollah fires rockets from.  

Hezbollah's survival depends on an assumed limitless continuation of humanitarian restraint by the Israelis, while Hezbollah engages in an all-out attack on Israeli cities and civilians.   When the gloves come off in response, there will be an epic body count.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 12:31 | 2820353 LasVegasDave
LasVegasDave's picture

Indeed, southern Lebanon will be turned into a glass parking lot, Nazrallah will be dripping off the walls of his hideout, and gaza will become prime real estate for ethnic chinese to turn into the next singapore or hong kong.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 14:54 | 2820699 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

I just hope that in a parallel universe Iran has 400 nukes and Israel is turned into a glass slipper.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:14 | 2820191 Arnold Ziffel
Arnold Ziffel's picture

Weren't these same religious groups - Israelis, Shi'a and Sunni s -- fighting these same religious battles 4,000 years ago?

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:12 | 2820442 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Well, I guess that's about as good as the average American's knowledge of history is.  Please stop talking now.  You're embarrassing the world.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:13 | 2820446 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

AZ, Islam and the various sects of that religion, are only about 1300 years old.  Muhammad died in June 632. 

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:36 | 2820510 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

Arnold, you're half right. 'They' have been fighting for a long long time but just called themselves a different label.


Names change but human nature stays the same.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 15:08 | 2820739 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

Who hasnt been fighting since the humans appeared on this plant? Abel and Cain?

Last centuries world wars were brought to you by Europe. Even the "peaceful" Swiss... the cantonal borders are infact the "ceasefire lines" not exactly borders.

Its just about having abundance of money and opportunities for indulgence Vs poor, hungry desperados.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 18:22 | 2821006 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

neat 1000 years of war in 5 minutes video with Wagner music

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:47 | 2820511 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture


Ignorance is the main reason I think we're all fucked... You got half the disinterested fucks (like Arnold in Hooterville), thinking just that... But then most of the INTERESTED ones are just the jew junker propagandists (like the 5 or 6 that will inevitably, probably immediately, show up to junk this comment & who are nothing more than PAID disinformation or public opinion shaping operatives)...

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:45 | 2820533 Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

History lesson, Shi'as and Sunni's (muslims) didn't exist 1500 years ago.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:18 | 2820203 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

It is war between US vs Russia/China fought on soil of Iran

but only after Syria's fall


control of Iran = control of oil = control of commerce


war is never between just two countries. there is always larger force behind the scenes.



Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:51 | 2820260 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

WMD <> Weapons of Mass Destruction

WMD = We Mean to Drill (for oil)

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:37 | 2820513 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

oops Aldous, you forgot to mention. . . Israel.

it was a mistake, right?

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:22 | 2820212 a growing concern
a growing concern's picture

Yeah, Russia, China, ever heard of them?

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:54 | 2820275 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture




Gog/Magog is China,Russia,Iran v U.S. & Allies notice how China has been ramping things up. Russia/China have been backing Iran also selling them weapons. In any case here's the deal if the phrophecy is going to come true there isn't anything you can do about it as a citizen except prepare yourselve's as individuals to survive. 

China says should react to Japan-US joint militarydrill

U.S. Says Disputed Islands Covered by Japan Defense Treaty

The Nightmare Scenario: A U.S.-China War pt 1

The Nightmare Scenario: A U.S.-China War: Part II


Sat, 09/22/2012 - 12:28 | 2820341 john39
john39's picture

or so your zionist controlled media and religious organizations tell you...  flip that over, and you are getting closer.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:10 | 2820429 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Longballs (I miss your old avatar)

Your two part answer calls for a two part reply.

The art of war considers that it is equally mistaken to overestimate your enemy as to underestimate him.

I don't know if he actually underestimates Iran or if you are overestimating Iran, my hunch is that it is a bit of both. I think Iran itself may be overestimating it's ability to project nation-killing force, while some might wrongly think Iranian domestic defenses are paper thin. The exception to that would be if Iran already has nuclear weapons, they could devastate Israel with two, and it is possible that they already have them even though they might not yet be able to build their own, there are such bombs available from the likes of Pakistan, or stolen, sold from the Russian stockpiles that have lost track of the old Soviet warheads. Point being that as far as killing a nation goes Israel is exceptionally vulnerable due to size and location of population centers. It would be very hard to "destroy" Israel or even damage it too badly with conventional forces especially from as far away as Iran, Israel is perhaps the most defended ground on the planet, but it is one of the most vulnerable in the world to unconventional attacks. That is part of the reason why it is SO critical and such a huge driver in the regional need to stop neighboring nations from acquiring unconventional WMD.

I used to speculate what good it would do Iran to either develop nuclear weapons or even if they are not then even allowing the impression they are, if they can't get them to Tel Aviv or Jerusalem which would be their only logical target barring the tandem development of long-range ICBM's, but with the recent shipment of at least 15,000 men to Syria which shares a border with Israel they do not need vulnerable medium or long-range missiles to deliver them. Iranians even as I type are looking with their own eyes at the city of Haifa, which can be seen from Golan. It is only 25 miles from Haifa Bay to Syria.

So, if any of you wonder at what appears to be urgent or provocative words from Israel lately you might want to consider that the one nation with the will and ability to destroy them is now right on their border where till recently they were a comfortable distance away. We have seen how vulnerable cities are to hostile acts by nothing more sophisticated than a jetliner, and if that plane had a nuclear bomb on board? The response time even if you found out before it hit would be near zero.

As to Iranian offensive and defensive capability, we can talk about it all day and still not have a clue, Iran is not telling us the truth about what it can or cannot do, that would be pretty stupid if they did, but I promise you that both Israel and the US have a very good idea of what Iran is up to and what they are capable of. I still think they are unable to project significant conventional force outside Iran. Remember, they had a eight year long war with Iraq and could not win. Some may make the mistake of thinking they were not really trying to defeat Saddam but to contain him, that would be very wrong, they lost more than a third of a million men and as many as three quarters of a million men trying, the stakes were very high. Eight years and more than a million casualties later it ended in stalemate.

A lot can change in the years since, but they still do not have a very functional air force, what they have is antiquated and mostly grounded for lack of spare parts, and no navy to speak of unless you count a lot of speedboats. What they do have is a lot of men and guns, and pretty fair missile defenses, recent Russian made ones, but those guard high value targets like leadership, and nuclear weapons labs, they hardly have enough to be a real threat to enemies.

I seriously doubt either Israel or the west contemplates a conventional ground war against Iran, though clearly it has been a goal to surround and contain Iran in case that should become necessary in their eyes. That would be magnitudes larger of a job than Iraq was and the global geopolitical ramifications are far less predictable for such a war.

Which brings me to the second part of the response, the reactions of the other powers outside Iran and the west. Let's cut the bullshit and go straight to Russia because China might not like such scenarios but China has no ability to project military force outside of the east Asian theater. Not unless they decide it is worth destroying themselves over the provocations of Teheran, because the only real threat China poses to the west is their ability to launch an all out nuclear war, but to think they would do that in order to support Iran is crazy. As a nuclear superpower China thinks more long-term and more strategically than to engage in MAD over a local hissy fit in the ME. They do not consider one region, or one economic input (oil) when weighing the options for China, they have to consider the whole global stage as a balancing act over generations.

And India? Where did that come from? One might as well have said Brazil, or Argentina.

Russia is a different case though because it is lead by a megalomaniac Tsar that has unclear motivations, with an oil exporting economy and a closer frontier than China or other powers. It is more affected by what happens in the ME. Putin has supported Iran in it's challenge to the west for years, indeed it is almost like Iran is a red herring manipulated by Russia in the post Soviet collapse ear to keep the west busy elsewhere while he quietly and urgently rebuilds Russian forces which were decimated by the fall of the communists. Between lost territory and lost bases the military was a shadow of it's former self. It had fallen to a similar level as China, still a nuclear superpower, but no longer with the ability to fight a major foreign war with conventional means. Putin's goal is an eventual return to military parity with any nation or alliance.

If Iran is a pawn in that game then just as in chess Putin will have no problem sacrificing the mullahs when the shit hits the fan. In fact I doubt if the Iranians would be so bold in their standoff with the UN and the west if they did not have a private assurance from Putin of backing in case of war, but do not make the mistake of thinking Putin will honor that pledge to back Iran, at least not before he has the ability to cross into the EU on a large scale. Barring that Putin will not take Russia to war over Iran, because any such adventure WOULD escalate into a conflict Russia is not yet prepared for and he knows it. The Iranians should be cautious about accepting offers of assistance from a KGB man, they are even less worthy of trust than CIA spooks.

That does not mean that either Russia or China would not try to take advantage of an Iranian war, especially China which is salivating over petroleum deposits in the East China Sea. At the very least they would test the relationship between the US and Japan, but already they are pushing Japan into a corner where all out rearmament is probable. Nobody wants that aside from some hawks in Japanese society who remember with nostalgia when they were a power to contend with rather than a "pet" of the USA (speaking from the point of view of those hawks).

I have not seen a major conflict in the ME as really inevitable until recently. But, things have spun out of control, our control, local governments control, Israeli control, nobody is in control over there anymore and that is a very dangerous situation.

All of the above does not mean that any of you are wrong, as to the end results, it is completely possible that in the fog of war things can happen that do make this a very dangerous affair, a simple air strike on some high value Iranian targets is likely, how much of Iranian bluster is just that nobody really knows, I doubt the Iranians are even sure. But they do give every impression they are willing to die in ritual suicide if attacked and they seem hell bent on being attacked. This could be a tempest in a teapot, or it could lead to WWIII. Maybe I should say will lead to WWIII someday, any day, because for it NOT to lead to world war the whole Middle East would have to break out in spontaneous peace and forgiveness, cooperation, which ends the stranglehold of fundamentalist religions, and diversifies the economics of the MENA away from oil. Otherwise war is going to happen. Please let it be another 30 years away, because we all KNOW that outbreak of love and peace is not in the cards.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 15:00 | 2820716 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Putin's interest in Europe is short term.

In twenty years, Europe will be an amusement park.

Sun, 09/23/2012 - 03:43 | 2821589 Kiwi Pete
Kiwi Pete's picture

Thanks for that very thoughtful analysis boiltherich.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:51 | 2820550 Conchy Joe
Conchy Joe's picture

I agree and if the war escalates quickly enough we may actually see serious US firepower unleased on an opponent (right or wrong) for the first time in recent history.

This administration has shown that they like things to go away quickly as not to startle the sheeple which makes them even scarier. Millions of barrels of oil sunk in the gulf - problem solved - off the air in months and all is well.

If the gloves come off - and the equipment is already there for it and the logistics have been planned for years - 70-80% of Iran's primary millitary forces/bases will not make the first week. That's not underestimating, that's just what it is, if the gloves come off. 

A land war there would be neverending just like Iraq and Afganistan, but is unnessisary for the supposed stated purpose of "the nuclear threat".

The only thing that changes the game is will someone step up and join them? Maybe not if they feel we're not putting boots on the ground. What they want will still be available, likely at a lower price and potentially through a less nationalist regime. Have we stopped Iraqi oil to China?

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 16:45 | 2820879 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

Maybe I'm mistaken but I think West underestimates Russia-China.I understand that they allowed American bloodletting, physical and financial, in Iraq and Afghanistan, but to think that they allow Iran to go that way is a bit of overkill. It's like allowing somebody to slowly kill you. I dont have any facts or anything but I would bet that they have all kinds of armaments and advisors in Iran. I wonder how US will provide Europe and Asia, not to mention themselves, with oil if something starts there. Saudi and Arab ligue are very close so eliminating that supply should not be a great deal. African countries producing oil already have muslim revolt on their hands. Venezuela, Russian former republics (mostly muslem)? There won't be any war it's to late, and Israel can keep their nukes for war with Cyprus or Malta.

10 day war in that region, disregarding outcome would kill Europe, Asia, and US itself, after 10 days no food, no supplies, no anything, especially if Russia and China join that shit. 

Sun, 09/23/2012 - 13:04 | 2822233 Conchy Joe
Conchy Joe's picture

Agreed - it's hard for us to really know. China has been steadly moving foward with their investments in Afganistan. Is it easier or more profitable for them now with this regime than before? I don't know, but certainly they haven't been cut off by America "taking it over". 


Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:09 | 2820183 Mad Mad Woman
Mad Mad Woman's picture

Hey Cole, that's what Cheney & Rumsfeld said about Iraq. They thought we would be in and out real quick and it's all over. And what happened? Do you remember?? So don't say that shit, cause that's what it is, shit. Never underestimate your enemies cause it will come back and bite you in the ass. History teaches that but the powerful never learn the lesson.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:19 | 2820205 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

If they can retaliate in a big way, they would'nt be attacked.

Stretched over guerilla war is an acceptable collateral damage, good reason to keep the forces there to safeguard the resource interests for the big corps.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:43 | 2820528 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

what "cheney & rumsfeld" said to the public, and what they knew/carried out on behalf of their cabal & war profiteering corporations were TWO DIFFERENT STORIES.

"never underestimate your enemies" - one needs to be clear who the "enemy" actually is first, and "history" rarely teaches that, unless you dig deep, really deep. . .

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 15:07 | 2820738 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

The enemy is a relatively small number of neurons, wired together in a certain fashion, in just about everybody's brain.

Your enemy is not a behavior, nor an idea, it's what creates the behavior or idea.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 19:58 | 2821099 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture


and "cheney & rumsfeld" are just image-in'd, since I've never personally met them.


Sat, 09/22/2012 - 20:22 | 2821134 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Maybe you are on to something.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 21:25 | 2821194 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

every so often I try to take a long-ish break from "news" to help re-mind myself that every piece of information I allow into my mind is by choice - I don't witness it personally (and even there, would have inherent bias based on my own history), therefore ALL information is second-hand.

everything I read, everything I hear, everything I see on the internet - all filtered through other's realities. . .

kinda stops you in your tracks occasionally.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:32 | 2820230 Timmay
Timmay's picture

True, with the excepton Russia and China will be directly involved this time. That will be a little different huh??

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 12:21 | 2820324 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

@ Cole Y

There will be NO LAND WAR with Iran.  Period.  Too many US ground casualties.  Never will happen.

Beyond that, I have know idea what will happen. 

Israeli and/or US airstrikes?  False flags?  Russia and/or China step in?  Nothing happens?  A lot of ways this could all go down.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:15 | 2820452 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Ground wars are passe.  The USian fighting force is spent. 

Besides, we have a bit of a thing about exposing our troops to that kind of danger...

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:44 | 2820531 samsara
samsara's picture

Yes it will be a wonderous victory. Hope you are ready to enjoy $200 oil and all that implies

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 18:33 | 2821021 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



It will end up being a war no different than Iraq.

Iraq didn't have Russia & China openly declaring they'll defend them from US / Israhell attack all the way to thermonuclear WWIII if necessary.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:07 | 2820405 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:04 | 2820406 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Iran: We Ain't Iraq

Nope, but if the course we see going down comes to fruition, SOON you will be,the same or worse.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 09:56 | 2820071 Fantasy Planet
Fantasy Planet's picture

Thousands may be killed.  Economies will be destroyed.  Whatever.  When does DWTS All Stars start?

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:05 | 2820177 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Let it burn.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 12:30 | 2820347 john39
john39's picture

problem there is, tha tis exactly how these evil inbreds plan on consolidating power....

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 12:30 | 2820348 john39
john39's picture

problem there is, tha tis exactly how these evil inbreds plan on consolidating power....

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 09:56 | 2820073 tsx500
tsx500's picture

BULLISH  !!!!!        <sarc>

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 09:57 | 2820074 falak pema
falak pema's picture

#1 deadline : before or after nov 6. If Obammy has obtained from the EU that no resolution or unwarranted surprise on Greek front should upset the political contest in USA, that in itself is an indication.

What he has obtained from EU he probably has also fro Netan-yahou. 

Otherwise his quid-pro quo, (we don't know if there is one, just guessing), with EU and IMF troika, would not make sense.

So now we move to #2 deadline : Most likely january-february 2013, as that would minimise time for Iran to improve its nuclear hideouts; whatever they may be and whatever their true content of warheads (if any). 

All this Syrian buildup would then fall into place; as its hinted that Assad's hold relies on ground support from Iran Pasdaran. 

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 10:07 | 2820085 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

The upcoming Yom Kippur holiday would be more historical.  Any bets on that date?

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 10:27 | 2820119 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

The only New Moon between now and the election is on Oct 15.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:52 | 2820551 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

1973 Lunar dates, new moon 26 Sept, full moon 12 Oct, new moon 26 Oct (adjusted for local times).

Yom Kippur War 6 - 25 October.

apparently new moon not required.


Sat, 09/22/2012 - 16:15 | 2820834 mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

"1973 Lunar dates, new moon 26 Sept, full moon 12 Oct, new moon 26 Oct (adjusted for local times).

Yom Kippur War 6 - 25 October.

apparently new moon not required."
"The war began when the coalition [of Arab states] launched a joint surprise attack on Israel on Yom Kippur, the holiest day in Judaism, which happened to occur that year during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan"

Agreed.   If the Iranians are allowed to choose the time and place, it won't be over Iran during a new moon.   On the other hand, they might not get that choice.

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