This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Gold Counterfeiting Goes Viral: 10 Tungsten-Filled Gold Bars Are Discovered In Manhattan
A few days ago, our report on the discovery of a single 10 oz Tungsten-filled gold bar in Manhattan's jewelry district promptly went viral, as it meant that a tungsten-based, gold-counterfeiting operation, previously isolated solely to the UK and Europe, had crossed the Atlantic. The good news was that the counterfeiting case was isolated to just one 10 oz bar. This morning, the NYPost reports that as had been expected, in the aftermath of the realization that the sanctity of the gold inventory on 47th Street just off Fifth Avenue has been polluted, and dealers promptly check the purity of their gold, at least ten more fake 10-ounce "gold bars" filled with Tungsten has been discovered.
The Post has learned as many as 10 fake gold bars — made up mostly of relatively worthless tungsten — were sold recently to unsuspecting dealers in Manhattan’s Midtown Diamond District.
The 10-oz. gold bars are hugely popular with Main Street investors, and it is not known how many of the fake gold bars were sold to dealers — or if any fake bars were purchased by the public.
As is to be expected, the Post story is weak on details: after all, any dealer who admits to having allowed Tungsten to enter his or her inventory can kiss their retail business goodbye, as customers will avoid said Tungsten outlet like the plague, for the simple reason that suddenly counterparty risk has migrated from Wall Street to the Diamond District. The one named dealer is the same one who already made an appearance in the previous story on Tungsten in gold's clothing.
One gold dealer discovered that four of the 3-inch-by-1-inch gold bars he bought — worth about $72,000 retail — were counterfeit.
“It has the entire street on edge,” said Ibrahim Fadl, 62, who has been the owner of Express Metal Refining, a Midtown gold-refinery business, for the last 11 years. “I and the others on the street work off of trust; now that trust is strained.”
Fadl, a Columbia University graduate with a master’s degree in chemical engineering, and who has more than 40 years in the industry, purchased the four fake bars from a well-known Russian salesman with whom he has done business.
Ah yes, those pesky Russians: always happy to do the Fed's bidding, because who really gains from the loss of confidence in physical gold?
Fadl became suspicious when he offered the salesman a deep discount for the investment-grade gold bars and he quickly accepted it, a source tells The Post.
Fadl said he did his due diligence “by X-raying the bars to ascertain the purity of the gold and weighing the bars, and the Swiss markings were perfect.”
Tungsten is an industrial metal that weighs nearly the same as gold but costs a little over $1 an ounce. Gold closed Friday at $1,774.80 an ounce.
We wish Fadl all the best in his liquidation sale. Others, for logical reasons, are far less willing to step forward:
A second 47th Street refiner, who wished to remain anonymous, said he was burned recently when he bought six gold bars that turned out to be mostly tungsten, with just a gold veneer. He would not comment, though, on who sold him the bogus bars.
The counterfeiting so far appears to have impacted solely PAMP (Produits Artistiques Métaux Précieux ) gold bars, madeby MTB, whose CEO can hardly be too happy that some "Russian" has made it a life mission to destroy the credibility of any gold stamped with the PAMP stamp.
Raymond Nassim, CEO of Manfra, Tordell & Brookes, the American arm of the Swiss firm that created the original gold bars — with their serial number and purity rating stamped clearly into them — said he reported the situation to the US Secret Service, whose jurisdiction covers the counterfeiting of gold bars.
He said his company “is supporting and cooperating with authorities any way we can.”
Nassim thought the culprit must be a professionally trained jeweler to have pulled off the caper.
“The forger had to slice the original bar along the side, hollow out the gold and insert the tungsten ingot, and then reseal and polish the bar, Nassim said.
The case of gold counterfeiting has already taken NYC by storm:
At an industry dinner Thursday night hosted by Comex, the New York-based metals exchange, the room was abuzz with talk about the bogus gold bars, according to Fadl.
Which was also to be expected. What is also to be expected is that as more and more stories of Tungsten making it into broader gold circulation, that retail sales of physical gold will certainly be impaired as end consumers become far more cautious about what they buy.
And while we await more information, especially from the Secret Service, who is "on top" of this case, which we assume implies that gold is after all money, we leave readers with our conclusion from Tuesday: "with false flags rampant these days, we would not be surprised if this is merely yet another attempt to discredit gold, this time physical, as an undilutable medium of warehousing wealth. So buyer beware: in a time when everyone is broke, triple check before exchanging one store of wealth for another."
For those curious what a fake 10oz bar looks like, here it is again:
»
- 106296 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
Will trade your not-money quater for a 65'...
- or 6 for a COKE?
stocktivity,
Just dug up a 1910 Barber dime from the old roadway on the western edge of the property.
An 1899 Indian Head penny as well. But it is not silver.
see "chinese"
Believe it or not...Years ago I had a bogus quarter...tried to mark it with tape to keep the souvenir..but it slipped away from me over the years...drop several on hard surface, same tone, except this one..!!
Definitely.
This is the tip of an iceberg we are seeing here.
Add in Jim Willie and his sources saying 40-60k tons of corzined allocated
gold(don't know if that includes 8k in Fort Knox) and TSHF moment is getting close.
I bought $2200 worth of fake Gold of various sizes and countries and FAKE Platinum 1 gram bars from ONE GUY (21 yrs old kid) . I wound up threatening him with 8 yrs in prison so he gave me my money back. They seem to be sending out you people with fake bullion. He also had a pile of fake SILVER coins, I never bought.. Pics are at KITCO forum
If you were going to make/counterfiet 1 of these you might as well make/counterfiet 1000 of them.
How is this different than re-hypothication? Counterfieting gold bars requires yo to at least have access to some gold and manufacturing capability.
I have a question
I own multiple 1oz gold coins however I noticed that there is a color difference between them
say a 1oz American Buffalo(2010), a 1oz Australian Kangaroo(2011) and a 1oz Canadian Maple Leaf(2011)
they are all rated at 999.9 purity however I notice they all have a slightly different color, the Buffalo is almost orange(dark yellow?) while the other 2 are more (light)yellow
is it possible for coins with the same purity to have visibly different colors ?
Do you handle them ?
Acid from your sweat dulls the shine which might appear as a colour shift.
No I barely touched them at all, the Buffalo is the most distinct I guess the Maple and Kangaroo don't look that much different from each other in color
Maybe this Buffalo was not in Mint condition and was handled before I bought it
Buy a tester,better to know.
Can pick them up online for about $40-00.
Good luck.
Amateurs:
Go look up the composition of American Eagles, Canadian Maple Leafs, and SA Krugerrands. Eagles are alloyed with silver and copper, Krugerrands with copper, and Maple Leafs are .9999 pure gold. Each coin has 1ozt of pure gold but the Eagle and Krug have the additional metal alloyed in for durability. You can easily check this by weighing the Eagle and Krug: they will always way more than 1 troy ounce, due to the additional metals in the alloy. Or you can do some quick looking around and realize the composition of these coins is well documented.
The alloy determines the hue.
I am Chumbawamba.
So many of the original posters are gone.. Glad you are staying around Chumbawamba.
Too many people forget the topic and just post their radical BS on these threads these days.
+1 for telling Chumbawamba about posters posting their radical BS on ZH !!!
I must say, it's gotten kind of...sad. It is nice to see you around, Hulk. How's the farm?
-Chumblez.
Diggin' the new avatar. Did you do a focus group on that?
Kind of...I published a Notice of Intent on the chat board and there were no objections :)
It augurs a new phase of Chumbawamba on Zero Hedge.
-Chumblez.
Hulk, Chumbawamba - all hail ancient posters who aren't magically invented paid trolls (new user name in a month) or plain old crazy people.
I think I saw Cougar somewhere up above also.
I feel a chorus of kumbaya coming on.
Chumba. He has a Buffalo, Kangaroo and Maple. Not eagle or krug. Al of his coins are .9999 (or .999 if his maple or roos are older than 1987).
He has a different hue for three coins with pure 9999 gold. I will answer his question separately.
Damn, you're right. Most times when I see "Australia" I read "Austria", and I glossed over the "Buffalo" part. Oh well, I guess I'm the amateur.
-humblez.
Well if it were Austria that would be a philharmonic which are also .9999 just like the roos. But no big deal it's all good. The more people who learn these things, and gain confidence in purchasing metals, the better.
Buy a tester,better to know.
Can pick them up online for about $40-00.
Won't catch Tungsten loaded coins/bars.
For what it's worth, I just compared a 2010 MS70 Buffalo to a 2010 Maple and 2010 perth mint coin and yes, the buffalo has a slightly more orange tone.
Yes exactly my observation but how do you explain it? They are supposed to be identical up to .99% so how is that possible? But thx that makes me feel a little better that it's not just my Buffalos that are orange :)
Thx for all your explanations.
Hi. Gold buffalo look slightly dusty/powdered because that is the way the die are setup. They are pure gold just not ultra shiny mirror-like gold. It's not in the material itself, just in the way they are stamped and prepared at the mint.
Probably the maple and roos are stamped then go through a polishing, and the buffalo do not.
keep stacking, whatever you like to buy, if it is available. Maples are nice to accumulate and seem more in abundance. Roos are a bit less abundant based on my limited discovery in local coin shops. Buffalo are typically $25 higher in price due to a premium.
I like your decision to buy only .9999 gold, but others like American Eagle (90% gold) as well. If you are concerned about fakes, there is a nice little tool called the Fisch. Look it up. Get one for Maples and just keep stacking.
This is more convenient and cheaper than Fisch:
http://www.goldcoinbalance.com/
Actually that is a Fisch just an identical copy for 1/4 the price. I'm sure Fisch doesn't like that but looks like it works all the same.
Did you mean fondle?
Yes it is possible. I have noticed the same thing. I attribute it to the miniscule impurity and also the stamping of the coin. I imagine the texture of the surface of each coin is different and that can affect the perceived color.
However I would like a real explanation from anyone who might know the facts!
Prob Normal. Despite them being "pure" there may always be a tiny amount of impurity. Sometimes it shows up as a tiny red spot which may be a local concentration of copper. I worked in a pawn shop for a few while waiting for my real job. Exeperienced pawn shop owners know more about fakes then any expert on Wall Street or Sothbye's I think since it's their own money at stake.
Every kid should work in one for awhile...it's a real eye-opener. It's amazing what people try to fake; there's the obvious stuff like watches and paintings but you have things like fake rock guitars ( I don't know how many guiters I saw there were reportedly used by Clapton when he visited the USA, for example).
"is it possible for coins with the same purity to have visibly different colors ?"
Your coins are fine.
The reason for the slight variation in color is due to slight differences in the minute amount of alloy present and the annealing process.
Congratulations on your purchases.
You stated that you have a Buffalo, Kangaroo, and a Maple. Yes, all of these coins have .9999 purity. One would think that they have the exact same color, but as you noticed, they look a bit different. I think it is due to the die used to stamp them at the mint.
The regular buffalo will have a slight powder coated appearance. If you purchase the "Proof Buffalo" however you will notice the proof is extremely shiny almost like a mirror finish. Two coins, both .9999, and different appearance.
Your maple and kangaroo will likely look very similar. The kangaroo designs are very detailed and artistic, and the finished coin may be just barely different than the maple, just due to the die and production method.
As another poster said, congrats!
Typically gold coins are alloyed either with a small amount of copper or silver. The copper produces the darker/redder hue. Silver the lighter yellow hue.
As long as they don't try to do this with gold coins. Otherwise I'll have to start worrying.
Looks like time to get into the mini x-ray machine business.
Bullish for tungsten BitcheZ
(In large part re-post from the 18th about the first salted bar)
If you go to the LBMA website you'll find all of the information as to what constitutes good delivery, who is approved for manufacture, assaying, transportation and vaulting.
Of particular interest, note the section that deals with the periodic inspection of a newly minted bars and the LBMA's means of testing. Overly simplified but as of a year or two ago it was as follows... LBMA tells refiner that it's coming to visit and wants a bar. Refiner has bar waiting. LBMA takes bar and inspects. Results etc., etc., etc.
The LBMA announces their arrival in front of time and accepts gold bar chosen by refiner for testing.
Anybody see the problem here?
About as foolproof as a sieve for long term water storage..... all pabulum.... ever so game-able...
But what about the rest of the bars that are not inspected? The refiner/manufacturer is certified as good stuff maker. He keeps selling so called LBMA good delivery bars because LBMA looked at the one the refiner picked out that was good.... .
And what if they're salted, Wolframed right there in River City Refining and Manufacturing? Tools and dies already in place, etc., etc., etc, major excess profits.
And if he'll do it with those, why not any refining jobs... big money, few employees involved... if a 10 oz is good, how about them 440 ozers? What a deal!!!!
And whatever happened to those hundreds of 440 Tungsten blanks so many people remember the Treasury ordering in the 70's?
And so what it it turns up bad later on?
Who coulda done it?
Anybody anywhere anytime.....
Excuses, excuses, excuses
Musta happened after it left here, officer!
A Highly Opaque Business to Say the Least, at Very Best.
And what thieves would be attracted to such businesses?
No, come on, not central banks?
Come on now...
Don't be so cynical, Knuks....
In an effectively lawless world void of justice, you make a good case...
The most likely source for a perfectly minted bar is the mint itself.
How's this gonna play out? Russian (Jewish) Mob aganist NY Jewish Mob? Could get bloody!
Who has popcorn?
The Russian seller could not be reached for comment:
http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&sa=N&rls=org.mo...
every market is now rigged.....
Goldfinger works in mysterious ways...
A 10 Oz. bar should be worth approximately $18K at current prices so how could have a retail value of $72K as quoted above?? If they can't get that right, can the rest of the article have much validity? I still belive that, on balance, this is a false flag from the Gold cartel to help cap prices.
$72k was claimed for FOUR of these 10oz bars. 4x18=72.
Why? A handful of crooks could pull this off. Isn't there a chain of custody on these bars?
You would think, that 2000 years after Archimedes, the Morons in Manhattan could have learned how to prevent such fraud.
The density of Tungsten is so close to that of gold, a test based on the archimedes principle would have to be carried out with laboratory precision to be of any use.
But I bet if you tapped a tungsten bar and a gold bar with the right tool you would get a different sound. So you don't have to drill them all to find the fakes.
Morons of Manhattan, the new breed after the Pocahontas Papoose and powhatan tribes.
Just as retarded and less eco friendly to boot.
How to test...........
How about coefficient of thermal expansion? I expect it would be rather different for gold than tungsten. Differences could be detected with strain gauges on the surface - too much/little surface strain, and the center isn't pure gold.
Also thermal conductivity. The value for gold is huge. I expect that tungsten is fairly resistant. should be a simple thing to put a heater on the surface and check the temperature on the other side.
Also consider simple strain. Suspend the bar on blocks on either end. Load the center and measure the deflection. Should be quite a difference between a solid gold and tungsten filled bar. Do the same test but "ping" it with a shock force and look at the vibration signature. Better yet just put a pieze electric on it and run the total frequency spectrum - Bode plot. The differences should jump right out. This is all pretty simple stuff.
Can't believe that the guy's X-ray machine didn't find it.
Something smells here big time.
Don't readly agree with Tyler that this will upset the physical market. It simply suggests to me that Russia has a lot more gold (scraped from the inside of bars) than it is reporting, and the west has a whole lot less. One would expect the Russians to fill the void with Polonium as opposed to Wolfram. They can be pricks. Of course that has a clear radiation signature.
Barbarous relics with nasty surprises?
Make sure you triple check your real money when you buy it!
Go long tungsten! In this market it is as good as gold!
U-L-T-R-A-S-O-U-N-D your gold. While gold and tungsten are similar in weight and specific gravity, the two metals differ in their hardness. Ultrasound will pick this up.
It's a quick, easy, and reliable way to ensure your gold is legit.
If you are buying gold bars in any kind of bulk amount, ask your dealer that you want them to be ultrasound tested or you're going somewhere else. It's as simple as that.
Yes, depending on density, sound will travel at different speeds through the medium.
We use ultrasound on oilfield pipe everyday, it can even see the non-uniformity in steel grain structure-it is the preferred method since 1978.
Actually it depends on density AND elasticity. That's why Tungsten has about twice the speed of sound as gold, even though it's almost the same in density.
UTG would detect these bars very easily.
Thanks for that. I got my knowledge of speed of sound as a Navy Sonar Technician. The speed of sound in sea water was affected by pressure [i.e. density], salt content and temperature.
As for metals, it makes sense that elasticity would be a factor too. Interesting.
Nice. Instructions here.
and here I found a video about ultrasonic testing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh0Mcagio5Q
i didnt know about Ultrasound for gold..
thanks
correction
I don't think you understood the article correctly. Try to read it one more time. US works fine.
What happens when you find out the bar is pregnant?
Is there a home for pregnant bars?
Do you set up a Blind Swiss Trust for their care?
Are these bars tax deductible if they're minors?
You find some sucker to buy your pregnant bar.
And don't use $100 bill to pay at WalMart.
Whatever you do, don't you even THINK about having that poor innocent piece of base metal forcibly removed from its gold carrier. That would violate its fundamental right to exist.
I'm pro-Tungsten and I vote!
home for pregnant bars? just like a pregnant teen, our govt welcomes them with open arms. They house them, the bars that is, at westpoint and fort knoxious.
72 LARGE to drop on mysterious Russians who come sashaying in with 10 oz bars, but not $600 for a top of the line ultrasound tester. What a tool.
Who would pay $72,000 for a 10 oz bar?
Should be closer to $17,500
It's a typo... whatever.. details details details....
the guy (tool) bought 4 of em.
Your trusted dealer will have them ultrasound cleaned and
assure you all is well.
Gold is money, unless it's not really gold. Welcome to the real world.
I did some drilling on paperbucks, yet. Thought that there would also be some counterfeiting - but it's actually a lot worse: There was absolute nothing behind the first layer...
You did better off then I did, I found the Bernakes ugle mug staring back at me.
Mine lit on fire and reduced to about 2% of its original mass.
Just don't nuke em in the microwave...
Wow! In this age of ultra high technology you would think a quick test for loaded bars could be found.
I think we all saw this coming. Once gold hit a certain price per ounce this loading became too attractive not to be done in large quantity.
lol...
Refer to my above post.
update: I see you have, disregard.
Yup. When gold gets to be too pricey for the average Joe, he'll look at silver. Prices will move up accordingly once the masses begin to enter that market and buy a few physical coins.
There's never just one roach. There will be more fakes discovered, a lot more.
Our governments, controlled by the Illuminati, are resisting FULL DISCLOSURE with their last evil breath. The Galactic Federation. are in our in skies, right now, and URGE us to spread Love and Light. The quicker we do, the sooner all Dark forces will be totally eradicated from our wonderful planet. The GF promise this. Get of your arses, boys and girls...and Bitchez...it is PAYBACK time! Yipee!
Paul Krugman is that you?
Is MDB making a big debut under a different avatar?
Internet drama queens. Everything is some huge fucking conspiracy instead some tiny theft ring with a clever angle.
I told u the Ruskis want to install their diamonds as new safe haven.
Al Qaeda in Yakutsk?
Prior to WW 1, there is anecdotal evidence that the Kaiser attempted to set up his own diamond price cartel...
Russia reveals shiny state secret: It's awash in diamonds
http://news.yahoo.com/russia-reveals-shiny-state-secret-awash-diamonds-131212873.html
interesting theory....
With this many fake bars should be easy for the Feds to track the culprits down....if they wanted to.
I'm sure they will plead the fifth.
or....
Manfra, Tordell & Brookes covered it themselves?
isn't the simplest explaination sometimes the real one...
again "this is a big deal." that's me quoting me. so glad to see CNBC and BLOOMBERG FRIGGIN NEWS all over this. oh, that's right. they steal all their content. i always forget that part. right up there with "why does the internet need securing?" phucking dopes. ALL of you so called "i'm running things" people. still not paying attention are you?
The Fed is throwing a party in the hamptons after reading this news.
are we all of the opinion that buying oz coins is safe? and silver safe too? not as much insetive due to low profit margin per coin?
Fortunately for silver palladium is the closest atomic mass and the spot for that is $670 so...only some entity as dumb as the Fed would consider using palladium as a way to sucker people out of silver.
Palladium in the chest--a terrible way to die.
Actually fake silver density can be achieved with a Molybdenum based alloy
Agree.
The complexity of trying to tungsten fill a coin of $1,700 would hardly be worth it, unless of course you were the Chinese Government (a.k.a. - Peoples Liberation army or P.L.A.) running a factory of them trying to undermine Western markets.
Or the American government trying to scare people into their paper.
famous WWII spy Elyesa Bazna Cicero, who worked for the Germans as a valet for the British ambassador to Turkey got paid 300,000 pounds sterling that were fake, made in a concentration camp!
They never found all of Operation Bernhards printing plates either.
www.tungsten-alloy.com/tungsten-alloy-scan-gold-coin.html
Nice picture...
Sleep well...
Coins are pretty safe, though I've seen bad fakes for sale (as fakes) on Ebay.
As mentioned elsewhere, just buy a UTG and remove all doubt.
I admit it.
I did for a Boy Scout Merit Badge and I didn't think the peepulls would buy 'em.
http://youtu.be/IA8QrOAghZ0 call the Fed, SEC, the CFTC, the CFSB, close the accounts, bankrupt the courts, call CLOUSSEAU!!!!
Thank god, my paper Gold cannot be faked with tungsten!
YouTube - MIDGET v. GIANT: You Didn't Build That, James Dean! says President Obama
...YouTube - "You Didn't Build That Frankenstein!' sez President Obama
... YouTube - 'Obi-Wan Kenobi... You Didn't Build!' sez President Obama
from the You Didn't Counterfeit that Gold series...
+1
You created those videos?
Nice job!
Seriously, would YOU take a DeWalt to a $72k bar of shiny stuff?
Mr Fadl seems to be unaware of ultrasound, quite odd for a long-time dealer......
Perhaps it is just a piece of 'brothers Grim' fantasia to keep would-be gold bugs away from the sweet meats.
I couldn't agree more. Who's taking a 1/4" drill bit to their gold bars while calling themselves a long time reputable dealer?
I wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Fadl made these bars himself simply for the shock value and to get his name out there. It obviously worked as his name is now in the news and the understanding is that he checks his metals. Those pictures were designed for nothing more than shock and awe in my opinion.
And clearly they are not all pictures of the same bar. The gold bar in picture number one has a serial number of 039388 and it looks like the last two digits of the serial number in picture three are 92. So at a minimum picture one is a different bar than picture three.
As for a reason that the media is running with these stories now whereas they used to get burried before, well gold is a lot more valuable now and more and more people have moved into pm's because of inflation fears so its a lot more relevant of a news story to the power elite of manhattan than it used to be.
As for why its happening now,what other motive besides a huge profit by fraud does an organized crime syndicate or any other criminal need for that matter? I really doubt its a deliberate effort form the banksters to errode confidence in the barbarous relic, or an elaborate marketing effort of a gold bar salesman to win confidence. The simpler explanation is more likely in my opinion.
Occam's razor is time tested.
Agreed, however it is humorous to note that Central Planners and thieves have a common goal.
"And clearly they are not all pictures of the same bar. The gold bar in picture number one has a serial number of 039388 and it looks like the last two digits of the serial number in picture three are 92. So at a minimum picture one is a different bar than picture three."
The article did say -ten- bars...
Where are the rest of the pictures of the additonal bars?
I want to see pictures of the 10 individually drilled bars and their serial numbers in the photos (front and back of each one)
That photo with the mismatched serial number was included in the original story when there was only 1 bar found.
I noticed that back then, and held my breath at that time.
The plot thickens... hmmm..
Bingo.
I wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Fadl made these bars himself simply for the shock value and to get his name out there.
I sincerely doubt this, unless he wants to gto out of bidness.
Since, I for one would not buy jack shite from Mr.Fadl now.
And as I think the original story the 1st bar was found to be fake by Fadl customer, who had bought 10 bars.
A picture is worth 1,000 words, or 10,000 ultrasound results.
doh......double post
Damn ex wife must have dumped everything. Anybody have room in their basement for one hiding Hulk and a CNC ???
I didn't hear anything up to now from silver counterfeiting - besides fake coins. OK, lower margins, but isn't it still worth the sweat for the tricksters?
...i have some fake Morgans and Peace Dollars for you.
read a story couple years ago that cheney, rumsfeld and reagan had quite the plating operation. big bars. where is it now?
Very modern story.
In this world Son, if you can fake it, you will make it. Oh, daughters especialy....
Fake, fraud, faust... the bargain in a nut-shell.
ori
Is this bullish for Gold or bearish?
Bullish for proven bars. Bearish for common buyers. Bearish for paper (confidence issue) - because that price is not driven by a real market.
Remember the similar story from 2009 (as I recall)? That story quietly disappeared down the memory hole. So I'll ask the inconvenient question, why are these new revelations gaining traction now? Just a coincidence? Just a matter of high prices attract the unscrupulous out of the woodwork? Or could it be that someone benefits by undermining peoples' confidence in physical and the people who trade in it?
Good point !
... said the same a few days ago.
Does anybody have a graph correlating the POG-highs versus "Fake" reports ?
What happens when even the governments are in on committing fraud as the current mode of operation?
The ethical and moral standards have disappeared. Animal spirits are the basis of everything now.
Makes me wonder how secure all those people are who own 1 oz PAMP Suisse bars. Any thoughts?
The benefit and complexity of tungsten filling 1 ounce anything likely obviates it.
"The benefit and complexity of tungsten filling 1 ounce anything likely obviates it."
Until it hits 10,000 bernankes an ounce....
"... and the Swiss markings were perfect.”
no doubt they were - which means to me that the swiss are producing more than just holey cheese....there are lawsuits flying over swiss criminality regarding confiscation of allocated gold but we think that the real locus of the crime is germany, london, and most specifically, new york and washington.
The BIS is headquarter in switzerland.
Who owns the BIS?
Who rigs the Gold Markets?
How come nothing ever leads to the TOP?
It ain't rocket science.
End all wars BOMB the BIS and all it's syndicated affilates?
The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks.
John Dalberg Lord Acton
Wasn't there a CSI NY episode about this very topic a few years ago?
Gold Eagles, Maples, Perth and Philis only. When you buy take a digital caliper and measure the thickness and width. Then weigh it on a digital scale.
Look up the exact measurements of the coins on the net. Then you dont have to worry about being cornholed buy a tungsten dildo
This is starting to look like an al Qaeda job..hee hee
"Trust...but verify."
I would bet that the tungsten is 1 or 2 percent thoriated. What a scheme. Sell radioactive waste to the "gold is money" people. Nobody has taken a Geiger counter to these bars?
I took my geiger counter to a bar ! I ordered a Margarita for me and a Piña Colada for my geiger counter ! He didn't like the Piña Colada .... so I drank it for him !
When you talked to him, did something 'click'?
Did he say "You're hot." ?
You hit my nightmare scenario. Irradiated precious metals.
WIth a thin coating of PCBs to prevent oxidation....
so what's the risk for American Eagles?
Orders of magnitude more difficult to counterfeit, numismatic coins even more so.
anyone recommend some affordable ultrasound equipment?
There is no reason to buy bars .... unless you are in the plating business !
Go to Amazon.com. Drop "ultrasonic thickness gauge" into the search bar. Several vendors of $160 units, along with industrial units like Starret going for $1300.
The speed of sound in tungsten is so much different than gold even the crappiest of gauges is going to smoke out a fake bar.