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USPS Bailout Imminent: Postal Service Will Miss September 30 'Mandated' Payment

Tyler Durden's picture


Color us unsurprised by this litte gem (via Bloomberg):


Miss a payment here, miss a payment there; never mind. It would appear that everyone wants to be bailed out before the election so they can pledge votes for taxpayer cash


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Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:32 | 2833141 PrintingPress
PrintingPress's picture

Did you know you could print your own stamps at home!


And why are they sending out e-mails!?  Isn't that the competition? 

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:35 | 2833157 buckethead
buckethead's picture

Operating and Maintaining a Postal Service is mandated by the US Constitution.


(One of the few things the feds do that is authorized by the constitution)


Just sayin'

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:39 | 2833186 SemperFord
SemperFord's picture

While it may be under the Constitution is not very efficient for most large packages and these mother-effers toss heavy packages and lose them at will. Our company was using that new box where no matter the weigh it was just $15 bucks and customers would send us pics showing holes and parts missing when they arrived, that is if it arrived!

I still use the regular mail to pay some bills I can't do over the phone or have it taken from my checking account.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:08 | 2833347 Gene Parmesan
Gene Parmesan's picture

If they F with my junk mail it's pitchfork time!

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:44 | 2833501 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Its all about the junk mail.  The USPS is nothing more than another JOBZ program that is nothing more than digging ditches and filling them in.

Loggers cut down the trees so the paper mill can make the paper so the advertiser can print the junk mail so the postman can haul it to your house so you can throw it in the trash so the garbage man can haul it to the dump.  In the process nothing is produced.  99% of my mail goes right into the garbage.  Advertising is WAY overrated too. 

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:58 | 2833560 Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

No, help the USPS out and stick it to the man by re-stuffing that junk mail back into it's return envelope and sending it back.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 17:05 | 2833590 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

I take it a step further. If the postage paid envelope is rigid w/ excess weight, they get charged alot more for the postage. Shims, cardboard & shingles work nice. 

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 18:51 | 2833930 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

You can also paste it to a box full of rocks that you don't need and send them on their way.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 17:11 | 2833616 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

USPS missed out on the whole internet thing?


even barnes and noble caught on and invested heavily in ebooks to stay relevant.


anyway, not their fault. something about having to pay pension costs on the front end.


apple cofounder steve wozniak says he is getting Australian citizenship because of their fiber optic internet connectivity while US lags behind with shitty slow connections. slow internet = stick to controlled old media


Asia has mobile streaming video on buses!


3D printers are also here.


America about to become irrelevant soon.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 18:46 | 2833917 HaroldWang
HaroldWang's picture

Got to be a way Amazon could buy these guys out. Imagine that - world dominance for Bezos! Plus he's used to running businesses that don't turn a profit.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 21:33 | 2834273 Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

I'll pass on being a Aussie, they censor the Internet. No porn in Australia, forget that high speed line, it's worthless without titties.......

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 22:01 | 2834324 Illusory logic
Illusory logic's picture

AH said:

"anyway, not their fault. something about having to pay pension costs on the front end."

Zactly!  That was courtesy of W.  I am sure you can guess why he did that.  Can't have competition for the for-profit companies.  Hey, maybe W did want to limit big government by taking away government (related) jobs like USPS.  He tried to break the Post Office with a lead anchor around their neck.  Over 4 years later it just might be working finally.  Good job W!

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:09 | 2833352 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture

Does this mean I can say Im going to miss a mortgage payment and get bailed out? Who do I call about this?

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 17:13 | 2833625 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture



or just walk away?


come back to the game only 7 years later?


I don't think you can do this in other countries where interest rates are global market rate and landlord owns you just like in the good old days.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:15 | 2833380 max2205
max2205's picture

Fire them all...lets try it for a year and if it doesn't work out....well, fuck 'em

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:29 | 2833441 franzpick
franzpick's picture

The bail-out vehicle has already been structured: Forever Bonds

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:41 | 2833195 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

So bailing out private for profit banking institutions that gambled their clients wealth away before keeping the constitute agency of federal government....that was bad?

Shit, well I am sure since Romney is such a genius he will know what to do!

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 17:19 | 2833650 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Isn't it interesting how you have taken a thread that mentioned no politics or candidate and the only thing you had to offer was to respond politically with a bias. But that is the liberal way. Discard the facts and act on emotion, even if it is bad for you.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:42 | 2833203 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

This is simply a $5 billion advanced payment on their pension (which CONgress forces them to do) but which congress does not do itself for SS and military and federal pensions.  The USPS has one of the best and "actually" funded/solvent pensions in the United States.  If the congressional oversight committee would get the hell out of the way and let the post office run itself like a business there would be no problem.  Fact is they will not let them close the offices they want to close and will not let them go to five day a week delivery which would save them billions per year.  Politicians are the main source of problems with the USPS... 

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:53 | 2833261 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

While the advanced payment issue is well known, their pension fund, like ALL others, is hardly solvent, but rather, still in the "functional" stage of the ponzi, thanks to Uncle Sugar.

There's simply no longer any such thing as solvency in a ZIRP eat ZIRP world.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:01 | 2833302 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

Point taken, maybe I should say "one of the better of the bad"...

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:17 | 2833381 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Yahoo Finance wants you back...

The USPS has one of the best and "actually" funded/solvent pensions in the United States. 

With a 100% Concentration Risk in Garbage, they aren't even partaking Wall Street's favorite past time (Fed front running)

required by law to be invested in "interest-bearing securities of the United States" or other investments that meet statutory specifications (5 U.S.c. § 8348(c)-(e))

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:24 | 2833419 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

All the more reason to put email and the internet under Fed control. Use that postal service clause like the commerce clause. /fear&sarc

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:47 | 2833490 GoodMorningMr.V...
GoodMorningMr.VanRumpoy...'s picture

True, the Postal service is one of the few things that is mandated by the Constitution.

But it's the current structure of the Post office that's unconstitutional.

Currently it's structured as a rare entity known as a "federal corporation".

Instead of going to a state government to get a corporate charter and incorporate, they go to Federal Government, and through lobbying and legislation get a "charter" from Congress.

Anyone who had to take a civics course in High school usually covered the Supreme Court case, Mcculloch V. Maryland (1819). Unfortunately, they indoctrinate kids with the sheeple Verizon of the case: "oh Congress invoked its implied powers under the necessary and proper clause of the the Constitution to further it's express powers under the Constitution."

What this abomination of a supreme court case actually stands for is the proposition that it is necessary and proper for Congress to create an incestuous merger of federal government with private interests. In the case of Mcculloch it was a national bank.

The reality is it's neither "necessary nor proper" for the federal government to charter corporations* particularly a private banking institution.

And that's what the post office is in its current form. An unconstitutional, failing, federal corporation. Just like the Federal Reserve.

*the federal government doesn't just charter a corporation but a full fledged monopolies and cartels.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 17:10 | 2833608 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

Operating and Maintaining a Postal Service is mandated by the US Constitution

Go figure - the one thing the FEDs choose to follow.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 17:30 | 2833694 svc101
svc101's picture

It only says they should establish post offices. (

Nowhere does it say they must run them.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 17:54 | 2833785 exi1ed0ne
exi1ed0ne's picture

Here is the full list.  My job description is longer, and with more duties to perform.  Where is my 2T$?


The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States, except if you don't do something, then it is a Tax;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States to infinity and beyond;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, especially if they have oil or other tangible resources, and among the several States, districts, towns, streets, homes and your body's cells, and with the Indian Tribes and their casinos;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization in the form of periodic amnesty so we have adequate numbers of fruit pickers and house cleaners, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States unless it is college debt - then your screwed;

To coin Money out of worthless pot metal, regulate the Value thereof into an ever downward value-spiral, and of foreign Coin oil, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures in the favor of the monied eliete and their sycophants;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States unless it is by the Federal reserve - then it's OK;

To establish Post Offices and post Roads as a means of providing junk mail, snazzy uniformed go-kart riders, and social justice employment opportunities;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries for ever and ever and ever;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court for use in cases of terrorism, terrorist like activity, or anything we damn well don't like;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations like selling oil for something other than the US dollar or not granting favorable status to US businesses for pipeline projects;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water, fuck it that is too much work.  Save trees and just invade;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years (whew!  good thing budgets are annual!);

To provide and maintain a Navy with kick ass nukulur powered vessels to totally own that motha fukkin sea;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces and everything else on the planet;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions, and ensure no 14 year old ever writes about the police state for school again;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress and make sure whistle blowers are indefinitely detained, tortured, and set as an example to those who might question orders;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings all over the mutha fukkin world;--And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper, conveys unfair advantage to the elected, or just convenient for votes for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Thu, 09/27/2012 - 01:48 | 2834578 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

"snazzy". Priceless! 'profitable' too? Fun rant though.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 18:15 | 2833844 deez nutz
deez nutz's picture

Operating and Maintaining a Postal Service is mandated by the US Constitution.

so is the "coining" of money by CONgress.  The Constitution is just so "1700's"


Wed, 09/26/2012 - 20:06 | 2834106 exi1ed0ne
exi1ed0ne's picture

The Constitution is like the Bible.

1) Both are really old. Like before Laverne & Shirley old.

2) People who claim covet them and be experts have often not read them completely.

3) Of those who have read them, fewer still interpret them in the context of the time they were written, or seek corroborating documentation that expand upon the ideas presented within for greater understanding.

4) Both are totally ripe documents to cherry pick the stuff you agree with and interpret it as literally as possible.

5) However they are broad enough to take the goofy shit that would make life tough (shellfish and blended fabrics are right out - Leviticus 19 dirty sinning bitchez!) but treat them as an allegory and interpret them in such a way as fits nicely with your world view. Bet you harvested all the grapes too you sons of Satan!

6) Both documents were written by flawed men and the precepts that defined the documents, while illuminating and inspiring, were broken even before the ink was dry.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 22:58 | 2834406 BoNeSxxx
BoNeSxxx's picture

7)  Both are just like a software license agreement:  Most people just scroll to the bottom and say 'I agree'

Thu, 09/27/2012 - 00:29 | 2834527 Fred123
Fred123's picture

Stupid Amercans cannot read their own Constitution. Nowhere is it mandated, it merely gives Congress the authorization to create it.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:54 | 2833266 YungHungAndLegal
YungHungAndLegal's picture

Some time ago a friend alerted me to the fact that the USPS will pretty much deliver anything regardless of postage.  Everything that I've mailed in the last 6 months has had a $0.01 stamp on it.  All of it was delivered.  THEY DON'T CARE!  Could be a contributing factor if others are exploiting their apathy but saves $$$ when Christmas cards go out.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:24 | 2833426 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

Thanks for the tip.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 18:16 | 2833847 becky quick and...
becky quick and her beautiful mouth's picture

this is totally true. if you do it out of your mailbox, the sometimes will be you for the missed postage and stop delivering mail if you don't pay it. but, if you just drop it off at the post office or in one of the blue bins, they always deliver it. they sometimes leave a postage due note with the recipient, but they neve rfollowup on it. i did it heavily last year when i found a big roll of postcard stamps ($0.03 i think?) and tried it. they delievered everything and never followed through on anything.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 19:09 | 2833981 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture


Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:05 | 2833321 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

Ok, I have a brilliant solution to save the USPS so hear me out...


If we have JP Morgan run the postage stamp program...

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 19:22 | 2834013 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture


Wed, 09/26/2012 - 18:31 | 2833874 elementary
elementary's picture

How much did the U.S. Post Office lose in revenue when the Social Security Administration started paying recipients electronically? Oh the irony!

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:32 | 2833143 Vincent Vega
Vincent Vega's picture

If they had only bought AAPL....what were the thinking!?

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:36 | 2833164 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

They are thinking, "Good thing Obama saved us in '08....wait, he didn't?  Well maybe Romney will save us this time?  Maybe?  Maybe aliens will save us this time.....maybe....."

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 21:38 | 2834285 Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

Illegal aliens, from the planet NAFTA?

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:33 | 2833144 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Didn't this happen last month?

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:33 | 2833149 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

last month, this month, next month--does not matter anymore.  

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:37 | 2833176 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I wonder if Bernanke balances his checkbook....

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:44 | 2833212 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

No need to.  No checks that fucker writes will EVER bounce.  NSF?  He justs adds some zeros to his account balance spot and presto chango, problem solved.  Come on....this is Benconomics 101.  Get with the program. AHAHAH

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:46 | 2833221 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

He must be fun to go to strip clubs with.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:50 | 2833246 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I think strippers frown upon digits being stuck into their g-strings.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:00 | 2833301 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Strippers in Sweden must not smile much.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:34 | 2833155 Debtonation
Debtonation's picture

But how will the masses get their regularly issued spam mail?

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:36 | 2833165 lindaamick
lindaamick's picture

Who, besides the post office has to fund their pension for 75 years?

That is the reason the Post Office is in the red.

Just one more juicy privatization prospect.


Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:38 | 2833181 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Some PE douche is probably leveraging up for a USPS buyout.   Break it up, sell the post offices to the Chinese, downsize, renege on the pensions, and then sell it back to Uncle Sam.  

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:48 | 2833228 Larry Dallas
Larry Dallas's picture

And that is exactly how it will happen.

And when history is written, you'll see that the Workman's Compensation for Injured Postal Workers would make the LIRR's look pale in comparison on a relative basis.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:45 | 2833213 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

spot on linda...

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:45 | 2833215 RSBriggs
RSBriggs's picture

Government doesn't want to fix it. The post office runs off its own revenues, and the gov conveniently bleeds it for nearly 60 billion in "union pension payments" (which money goes directly into the general fund.) every year.

If the government would cut it loose, it could be making tens of billions per year. But the gov ain't about to let the Post Office, or GM, or anything else go that they've got their hooks into - they're cash cows that have been "socialized"/

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:53 | 2833259 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Timmy G and his gang are responsible for overseeing & "investing" that "75 years" of prepayment, so while the law may seem harsh, the reality is that USPS is underfunding its pension now.

Or don't you know what sort of things Congress "invests" Treasury Managed Pension Assets in?

Got to give them props though for stepping up when ZIRP was killing the pension returns and moving into PE & LBOs, but they could have chosen wiser than Solyndra and GM ...

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 17:43 | 2833749 Crtrvlt
Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:36 | 2833166 jeff314
jeff314's picture

Pottery Barn...

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:37 | 2833175 venturen
venturen's picture

Wait till the post office is charge of your government manadated healthcare!

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:40 | 2833188 Vincent Vega
Vincent Vega's picture

You are confusing the USPS with the, I mean IRS.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:45 | 2833218 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Same shit....different toilet.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:38 | 2833178 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

I am not sure why the Post Office is supposed to turn a profit when nothing else in the government does.  What is really shocking is how much money the Department of Homeland Security takes us into the red every year.  Those dudes have never turned a profit.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:46 | 2833223 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Profits are for free markets and are bad.  /sarc

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 17:08 | 2833600 markar
markar's picture

Hell. They've never even caught a terrorist!

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 19:02 | 2833959 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

The are terrorists.  The sheep, not to mention the poor bastard that's trying to get to his plane, are scared shitless of them.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 17:44 | 2833752 Overfed
Overfed's picture

I have an idea. Let's shitcan DHS, and fire everybody under it's aegis, and then give that money to USPS. Problem solved.

Not sarcasm.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:38 | 2833179 q99x2
q99x2's picture

I bought a book from Amazon that I'm waiting for. It costs $11 and change. After taxes and shipping it costs $16 and change. Kindle here I come.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 17:52 | 2833780 Midas
Midas's picture

Free shipping over $25 and you will be paying tax no matter what you do.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:38 | 2833180 venturen
venturen's picture

BTW Couldn't they just say the checks in the mail?

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:38 | 2833182 TonyCoitus
TonyCoitus's picture

Sure, I'll mail in my vote!

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:38 | 2833183 Roland99
Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:39 | 2833187 pragmatic hobo
pragmatic hobo's picture

... hate to say this, but I think USPS will have to blow up their pension benefits.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:43 | 2833207 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I'm all for having a postal service, but this could be the shake-out that they needed.  The old featherbedding couldn't go on forever.   Some "entitled" retired brass from the USPS need to lose a substantial part of their checks.  The whole USPS needed a good enema, and this current situation could help do that.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:49 | 2833238 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Wasn't the Federal Employee Pension Fund the same fund that the Treasury "borrowed" from in order to delay the last debt ceiling debate?  I wish I could borrow funds from a pot of money that doesn't exist and then pay it back from money borrowed from another pot of money that doesn't exist. This is a great fucking system of credit money.  USA! USA! USA!

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 17:32 | 2833706 bbqporkwings
bbqporkwings's picture

Timmay borrowed from the TSP G fund. That's a 403b much like a 401k. It's peoples savings from their pay. The ability to borrow it was written into law when Thrift Savings Plan(TSP) act was passed in 1987 when they gutted retirements in ½. Newer employees get ½ of previous Civil Service rate per year, plus Social Sec, plus a matching on some 403b deposits. That 403b can grow very handsomely over 30 years time. Hopefully the SS will be there.... Hopefully the fed pension will be there.... And Timmay is the one holding the savings account. Hope it's there as well.

Gets me those ZHers posting and haven't a clue. They do it all via the net. That was one of the first things switched off in the ME during Arab Spring. Obamarama has sought such switch here, just in case. Then hear the cries of how they can't do that vs keep ½M employees from going to work that day across the country and everybody looking for their guy in their neighborhood. Additionally, the flow of mail is like a sewer pipe. When stopped it backs up.

This check refered to in the post is about prefunding healthcare for retirees that haven't been hired and/or born yet.


It's sabbotage...Congressional looting...

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:54 | 2833250 RSBriggs
RSBriggs's picture

They should have NEVER allowed public employees to unionize.  Since the unions happen to be big campaign contributors, the supposed yearly salary negotiations are simply mutual back-scratching exercises.  The better the deal the postal union gets, the more they dump right back into Democrat's pockets , erm,  campaign coffers.  Some of the union officials end up with pension payments of upwards of 500K per year - depending on how much they've bundled in contributions...

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 17:04 | 2833584 amadeusb4
amadeusb4's picture

They should have NEVER allowed capital to incorporate.  Since corporations happen to be big campaign contributors, the supposed yearly tax cuts are simply mutual back-scratching exercises.  The better the deal the corporations get, the more they dump right back into Republican pockets , erm,  campaign coffers.  Some of the corporate executives end up with pension payments of upwards of 5M per year - depending on how much they've bundled in contributions...

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:58 | 2833281 Red Raspberry
Red Raspberry's picture

The Postal Service has wanted to make cuts but Congress is afraid of old ladies and such back home.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:01 | 2833295 RSBriggs
RSBriggs's picture

It isn;'t old ladies they're afraid of, these are FEDERAL employee retirement benefits.  They don't want to screw up THEIR OWN retirement payments, and even one-terrmers get paid benefits and medical for life.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 17:54 | 2833788 Midas
Midas's picture

Not sure if you have any figures to go by, but I don't know of anybody that sheds workers as fast as the USPS.  Currently around 530,000 full time employees and it was just under 800,000 in the year 2000.  How do we get the rest of the Feds to shed jobs like that?  I am sure they are up over the same time frame.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:58 | 2833283 RSBriggs
RSBriggs's picture

It isn't segregated into USPS pensions benefits, it all goes into Federal Employee benefits.  The Post Office ends up paying for your friendly Congress critter's retirement, too - and they aren't about to let that cash cow escape.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:40 | 2833189 Conman
Conman's picture

They will be bailed out over and over call it USPS BailTernity.

This is why:

Total Career Employees 551,570

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:03 | 2833191 moonstears
moonstears's picture

What they're saying is they will not put into the retirement fund, for USPS workers. The retirement fund buys US Treasuries it does not simply go into a "pot of money". They've repeatedly asked Congresss to quit being forced to be paying into and having to be 100% retirement funded, for all employees. Congress has said "nope". USPS just said "Fuck you congress!". Interesting.

p.s. Having used various mail services across the globe, USPS does a fucking fine job, IMO!

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:10 | 2833354 RSloane
RSloane's picture

Really? I go out to the mailbox, then go to the trash can, then deposit about 95% of what I just got into the trash. The mail I keep is a paper copy of what I already have in an email. I may get an odd box delivery from time to time, but that's about it.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:15 | 2833373 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Similiar experiences here.  The reminaing 5% is always someone asking me money, so I am often tempted to toss that in the can too.  Hell, we should all replace our mailboxes with trash cans and save some of our labor and effort.  I'm throwing a patent on that idea right away. Mailtrash boxes. 

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:28 | 2833374 moonstears
moonstears's picture

I didn't say "you". I've had great results with relatively few fuckups by USPS. Write "take me off your list" across their literature and mail the prepaids back in their envelopes. Should cut some mail for you. When NSA cuts the web, for your own good, and natl security, sounds like you're fucked. p.s. Send your mom a card once in awhile, SHE is familliar with how the postal service works, and it'll make her smile.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 17:59 | 2833808 Midas
Midas's picture


The USPS doesn't decide what type of mail you are getting.  From your description, it sounds like they are really doing their jobs.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:26 | 2833428 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Since I live in Switzerland I can say the USPS sucks in comparison to the local service (which I pay dearly for).

However, since I used to run operations at a bank that received thousands of checks by USPS every day, I will admit that they  actually deliver every letter (even if not in the most timely fashion).

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:30 | 2833446 moonstears
moonstears's picture

"Since I live in Switzerland I can say the USPS sucks in comparison to the local service (which I pay dearly for)."

YEP, this is not the case with USPS.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:41 | 2833196 spentCartridge
spentCartridge's picture

They ain't ever gonna get rid of the mail.


It is legal lands vital conduit and without it the 'law' would not work.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:49 | 2833243 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture


Fax machines and/or Fedex. Other than an occasional check, I can't even remember the last time I signed something and out it in "the mail."

Most of the legal documents I signed over the last ten years were faxed so many times as to be practically illegible.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:15 | 2833372 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

Uncle Scam usually contacts people through the mail.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:47 | 2833225 Lost Wages
Lost Wages's picture

Why don't they scan children's birthday cards for $20 bills and Corzine dat shit?

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:51 | 2833252 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Because Gramama is sending coupons and cat food these days.  Hey-oh!

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:50 | 2833247 101 years and c...
101 years and counting's picture

Lets play a game:  Over/Under - How much does retail pull from DOMESTIC EQUITY MF's in the prior week (to be released by ICI this afternoon):

Over/Under is 3.245 Billion

I'm going over.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:59 | 2833291 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture


Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:04 | 2833319 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture


Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:06 | 2833328 Cow
Cow's picture

to suggest that the USPS is a well oiled machine and is only running a negative is because of pensions is preposterous.   From your article:

"Here are some easily verifiable facts: An efficient USPS has done well financially delivering the mail, despite a poor economy -- and without a dime of taxpayer money for 30 years. Fiscal 2012's first quarter, for example, saw a $200 million operational profit."

The USPS is funded from the Federal Financing Bank, which is a divison of Timmy Geithner's Treasury.  They borrow from them every year.  Just look at their debts and you will realize they don't pay them back and the borrowings are guaranteed by the full faith and credit of the US Taxpayer.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 17:15 | 2833632 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Yep, and to help make up for their short fall, the USPS is heavily courting businesses to increase junk mail since first class postage revenues are down.

Facts are a hard thing to accept for some.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:22 | 2833413 ezcearhoc
ezcearhoc's picture

The USPS is being sabotaged and destroyed on purpose. No other agency or business in the world has to prefund retirement health benefits as far out as the USPS. The prefunding requirement is designed to make the USPS appear broke so that it can be destroyed in order to privatize mail carrying, which is the goal of the corporate-sponsors behind this unfair mandate.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 17:13 | 2833623 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

And it is amazing that those privates sponsors have access and control of the financial numbers that the USPS puts out. That is simply amazing! And the prefunding requirement is a function of government so go blame your representatives who take money from the unionized AFL-CIO in the Letter Carreriers Union just like any other lobby.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 17:53 | 2833738 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

"Isn't it interesting how you have taken..." ezc's perfectly valid observation "... that mentioned no...candidate and the only thing you had to offer was to respond politically with a bias. But that is the..."duped useful idiot's "...way. Discard the facts and act on emotion, even if it is bad for..." well, pretty much everyone.

See how that worked out right there?

Thu, 09/27/2012 - 12:39 | 2834943 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Yea, worked out great for me since my post are based upon logic and facts. Since Ezc didn't espouse a political bias against a party like the other poster did, I didn't either.   That would be hypocritical. Therefore, in my reponse to Ecz, I didn't make comment on a specific candidate, but on the actual content of Ecz's post. That is called debating. Pressenting an opposing view and trying to get the other's to actually think about what is being said. Truth works great when people actually listen and think about it instead of just going with their ideology, whichever it may be.


You can do better then that.

What statement did I make that was false?answer none

Do politicians take money from lobbyists? answer yes

Is the AFL-CIO not one of them? answer yes

Did I mention a political party or specific candidate in my response? ansswer no


If your response was suppose to be a retort, it was quite a poor one. I invite you to try again. Otherwise I will assume you agree with me.


By the way, if you are going to cut and paste my posts, try keeping those responses in their proper place instead of taking them out of context like some asshole unless you are an asshole in which I apologize for not recognizing you.

Thu, 09/27/2012 - 14:52 | 2836178 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Because you say so I know it's a 'fact', but I am having some difficulty locating any evidence of your 'apolitical' implication that the Letter carriers union has lobbied for the pre-funding requirements that are driving the USPS into the ground...gotta link?

Thu, 09/27/2012 - 15:58 | 2836451 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture


Present your facts. I can present data on political donations without regard to party affiliation (thus no political bias). The Letters Carriers Union is a part of the AFL-CIO so all you have to go is there. That is how they get around the law which prohibits the NALC from directly lobbying.


As a union member myself, United Steel Workers, I know that contributions are put into a general fund that goes in many directions such as lobbying and political donations.


I would rather you do the homework yourself. Perhaps you will actually learn something. But just to wet your libs, which reports on BOTH parties and organizations shows that the NALC spent $500,000 in lobbying in 2011 and so far $140,000 in 2012.

Top candidate receipents have been:

Frederica Wilson (D-FL) $15k

Janice Hahn (D-CA) $15k

Kathleen Hochul (D-NY) $12k

Suzanne Bonamici (D-OR) $12k

Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) $10k


Top Issues Lobbied

  1. Fed Budget & Appropriations
  2. Government Issues
  3. Postal
  4. Retirement




Not that you are a liberal because I don't know that you are and won't say so but I'll give you a heads up. I tear up liberals and non liberals so frequently on ZH because I base my argument on facts and logic. Then when they try to throw the racist or some other emotional false tactic, it is hard for them to swallow that I am a union member and a minority. They simply go away because they have no response after that.


I want to thank you for your courteous response. Reading your post and how you responded indicated to me you were at least thoughtful and open to ideas. You don't know how many times that I have received a response that immediately made personal attacks that had nothing to do with the thread. And they all came from liberals. Go figure. So I gave you an up arrow. It's about ideas and facts (in context), not the BS that many on here post


Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:27 | 2833433 Quantum Nucleonics
Quantum Nucleonics's picture

If the USPS just taxed each email 10 cents and each text or tweet 2 cents, then they'd be in the black and swimming in cash.

More seriously, why not just spin the USPS off to FedEx or UPS?

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 17:08 | 2833596 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

If by spin off you mean put up for sale, I agree with you. Or better yet, let the USPS go bankrupt so they can renegotiate pension and health benefits. Then put it up for sale and see if FedEx, UPS or someone else even wants it. And for you liberals, many of those USPS workers would become employees of the new company just as many auto workers would have if GM would have gone through normal bankruptcy.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:28 | 2833438 MrBoompi
MrBoompi's picture

Gosh, what a surprise the Post Office is having trouble paying for pensions 75 years ahead of time!  Without that rediculous requirement the USPS would have shown a surplus.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:40 | 2833484 Fiscal.Enema
Fiscal.Enema's picture

Can't they just print more stamps. Post master Bernanke, Calling Post Master Ben Bernanke...

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 16:51 | 2833529 leftcoastfool
leftcoastfool's picture

"Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds"

But bankruptcy - well... that's another thing entirely...

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 17:03 | 2833580 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

This cracks me up. The USPS advocates are similiar to the posters that were saying that Spain's problems was only banking, not government. And of course that didn't pan out to be true. But they maintained their argument even after I pointed out facts of government debt and mismanagement. Then came Catalonia in their succession push.


So back to the USPS. Though it is hard to reach the ears of people who have their head buried in the sand, the problem with the USPS is simple. They just aren't profitable. Yes, liberals, that is important because without profits, there is no company and there are no jobs which means, there are no tax revenues to support pyramid social programs that will go bankrupt anyway.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 17:19 | 2833649 Conman
Conman's picture

Ah yes Benny boy and all the opther CB's out there should take note of whats going on with USPS. It pretty much is telling you whats going on with jobs in general.

TECHNOLOGY is a destroyer of jobs. Tweets, text messages, email is what killed USPS. With 500,000+ directly employed and how many other hundred of thousands indirectly employed by this behemoth.

These CB's keep printing money hoping jobs will come back.. THEY WONT. They are permanently gone!!!!!!!


Don't get me started on outsourcing... the markets cheer when companies report higher profit margins but jeer when unemployment #'s are up. You are fucking yourselves by sendign tese jobs overseas to get a few more cents of EPS you asshole. What kind of retarded dichotomy is this.


The only way back to "growth" is through bubbles. Looks like we have tech bubble 2.0 and now housing bubble 2.0 brewing not to mention student loan bubble 1.0. Awesome.


Ok im done time to go get a fuckin pumpkin beer - fuck ya its fall again.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 17:13 | 2833624 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

Lets remember the USPS had a plan for restructure in an attempt to return to profit.  it was overruled by the Senate.  Therefore the Senate will need to make the payment.  No surprise.

Thu, 09/27/2012 - 08:50 | 2834969 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

That is correct, and let's not forget that Senate is controlled by one party, and it doesn't begin with the letter R.


Let us also forget that this is the SECOND payment that the USPS has missed.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 18:17 | 2833849 yogibear
yogibear's picture

No reason to worry, your sugar daddy (US government/taxpayers)  has your back.

We have a government and Federal Reserve ready to buy-up everything. They are the economy.

Don't cut back, just threaten to fail and the helicopter will drop money on you.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 19:22 | 2834015 sink critically
sink critically's picture

When Miss October, November, and December hear this the jig will be up.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 20:40 | 2834185 xear
xear's picture

I may be wrong but after reading through some of the posts here on zerohedge I am sensing an air of disappointment in our government.


Believe it or not there was a time (Eisenhower, Kennedy) when people in general actually respected the American government. I know at this point that may seem so laughable it sounds ridiculous, but that is actually how things used to be.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 21:01 | 2834217 IMA5U
IMA5U's picture

It gives new meaning to the term "gone postal"

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 23:38 | 2834483 MarcusLCrassus
MarcusLCrassus's picture

The USPS is one of the greatest organizations in the entire country.  Founded by the great man himself, Benjamin Franklin, they do a thankless job extremely well, the envy of the world. 


You've got to give credit when credit is due.  Sure, they're not perfect, but they're pretty damn good. 

Thu, 09/27/2012 - 08:54 | 2834992 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Actually, I agree with you. I've made several negative posts that point out problems but I do think the USPS has served well. They still need to make substantial changes and become profitable or they must go.

I give them credit for their past as having provided a great service during that time. Times have changed and they must also.

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