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China Bails Out World's Largest Maker Of Solar Panels

Tyler Durden's picture


Chinese local governments are facing the prospect of major unemployment problems should the swathe of solar panel makers, that have been subsidized from birth to now-near-death, continue to suffer from US and European tariffs (as well as simple gross mis-allocation of capital amid massive over-capacity). However, as is the way of the mal-investing world today, no barrier to rational economic theory is too low for government status-quo maintenance as it would appear that local banks have been strong-armed into extending loans to keep them alive. As Reuters reports, debt-laden (NYSE-traded) SunTech Power Holdings  - which is close to removal from the exchange due to its dismal equity price - has just received new 'bailout' loans. First, it was a race to debase. Now, we have the race to bailout the world's most worthless companies (especially in channel-stuffed industries) as the New Normal trade wars continue.


Via Reuters:

Banks in Wuxi, Jiangsu province, have extended new loans totalling 200 million yuan ($31.73 million) to locally headquartered solar power giant Suntech Power Holdings Co Ltd, the Shanghai government-owned China Business News reported on Friday, citing anonymous sources.


Suntech, the world's largest maker of solar panels, whose shares hit a high of $90 in early 2008, runs the risk of being removed from the New York Stock Exchange for failing to keep the average closing price of its shares higher than $1 over the last 30 trading days as of Sept. 10, Suntech said in a statement on Sept. 21.


Shares in Suntech, like rivals JA Solar Holdings Co , Trina Solar Ltd and Yingli Green Energy Holding Co, have fallen sharply in the past three years as sales prices have tumbled, squeezed by declining demand in export markets and overcapacity at home.


Debt-laden Suntech's shares have also been hit after it said in July that its partner in a solar development fund might have defrauded it with a bogus collateral pledge of hundreds of millions of euros of German bonds.


Local governments that invested heavily in supporting the development of solar power companies in their regions now face the likelihood of big local unemployment problems if those firms collapse. Last week Suntech announced it would lay off around 1,500 people from one of its plants in Wuxi.


LDK Solar, which reported a second-quarter loss nearly three times bigger than a year earlier, has also recently received local government money. In July the government of Xinyu in Jiangxi province announced it would use taxpayer funds to pay off some of the company's loans.


Beijing has asked provinces to provide plans as to how they will increase solar energy in their power mix by 2015, and state media reported that China Development Bank is preparing plans to provide further credit support, but all of this help has caused complaints in the U.S. and Europe.


The U.S. imposed import duties on Chinese solar panels as of May, and an anti-dumping investigation against Chinese solar companies is underway in Europe. The erection of trade barriers against Chinese solar products would make it even more difficult for the industry to resolve its capacity and inventory gluts.


Local branches of Bank of China Ltd , Industrial and Commercial Bank of China Ltd , Agricultural Bank of China Ltd , China Construction Bank Ltd and policy lender China Development Bank joined together to make the loan, the report said.


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Sun, 09/30/2012 - 17:43 | 2843536 NewThor
NewThor's picture

Study Nikola Tesla.

Energy Problems.


Sun, 09/30/2012 - 17:59 | 2843554 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

The guy who makes those overpriced electric cars? I'll give him a solid meh. I'd rather study our visionary guru maestro Steve Jobs.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:00 | 2843558 NewThor
NewThor's picture

The Solar Panels on Nasa's Dawn space craft work well enough to have it kick around the solar system for 5 years.

Real solar power, bitchez!

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:03 | 2843564 bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

Now, we have the race to bailout the world's most worthless companies

wonder what % of these 'world's most worthless companies' had government ties to begin with.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:11 | 2843579 NewThor
NewThor's picture

Oil worship is a religion. 

and its got technological advancements 

trapped in an iron maiden.


Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:26 | 2843600 knukles
knukles's picture
Biden promotes free colonoscopies to seniors in Florida


Who cares about solar when ya' get free enemas?

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:41 | 2843630 Hulk
Hulk's picture

The small print states that they charge double to repair the resulting prolapses...

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 19:47 | 2843734 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

Does Leo still own these stocks?

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 01:21 | 2844106 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Wrong tech, wrong focus, no calculation of embedded energy, in-efficient.

Much easier ways exist to make us more efficient. 13% from tank to wheels?

World is aching for some common sense engineering...


Sun, 09/30/2012 - 20:08 | 2843764 grunk
grunk's picture


"We'll stick it where the sun don't shine!"

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 08:50 | 2844506 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Solar power in space has different aspects that you don't have in another environment such as on earth. And you should really stop calling others bitchez.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:03 | 2843565 Hulk
Hulk's picture

He's referring to the cult of Tesla, whose members can grab their own shoe laces and place their  feet on the ceiling...

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:09 | 2843573 NewThor
NewThor's picture

Yes. Because tapping into Earth's Magnetic core is a shit ton crazier than sucking trillions of cubic feet of oil out of the middle of your planet.


Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:39 | 2843627 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

So did you ever graduate from beyond Popular Science circa 1953 for your EM theory?

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:45 | 2843637 NewThor
NewThor's picture

So did you ever graduate from your 1880's RedShield "oil is the only way" theory?

Can you name another technology that has been as stagnant as oil?

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:54 | 2843650 Hulk
Hulk's picture

I believe that the nuclear fusion occuring in  countless stars is a bit older than oil, but would still appear to be in vogue...

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 19:42 | 2843721 Cosimo de Medici
Cosimo de Medici's picture


Mon, 10/01/2012 - 08:46 | 2844486 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Very good question that brings up a great point Flak.


I did electrical engineering technology and I'm remotely aware of Tesla as well as his battle with Edison regarding AC vs DC. As you are probably aware, AC is what powers are grids, alternating current, and DC is what most batteries are.


Anyway, the "great point" you brought up, intentionally or not, is that whatever great technology was invented, discovered or whatever: if it was so great, they why hasn't someone else picked up on it and slammed the current corporations? If the poster is so adamant about the idea, why haven't they opened a business and become the next billionaire? The question answers itself as does the problem with solar panels. It just isn't economically feasible and doesn't work in current times. It doesn't matter what argument they throw at you, the market place says they are wrong.


They may not be wrong forever, but until the market place, economically, has a place for such great inventions, there argument is mute.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:10 | 2843576 bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

ty hulk.    until now i had no idea the minx i've been seeing the past few weeks was a tesla cultist.



Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:14 | 2843583 Hulk
Hulk's picture

You lucky Brute you! 

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 20:11 | 2843773 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Any BS-level graduate in electrical engineering today knows more than Tesla dreamed of.

And yes, you can use the Earth like a battery - for a small time you can get a couple of volts w/basically no amps.  Huge fail.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 20:22 | 2843787 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Now grapefruit on the other hand..................

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 21:11 | 2843860 NewThor
NewThor's picture

The Sun?

Excellent example.

is there much energy in a coronal mass ejection?

Solar wind is fruitless?

GRB Burst net/mirror?

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:42 | 2843633 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Hey New Thor...

Do you have any idea what you are talking about or did you you read about that in a Sci-Fi pulp fiction novella from the 50's???

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 19:04 | 2843671 NewThor
NewThor's picture

A little bit of both, really.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 01:02 | 2844183 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Very little of one, if you catch my drift...

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 19:03 | 2843669 Theos
Sun, 09/30/2012 - 19:12 | 2843680 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Theos, there is no such thing as free energy. Every device Tesla ever made is a net energy consumer. These scams have been going on since man started using energy.

If such a device could actually exist, the inventor would be an instant billionaire and would have no need for such an advertisement. Think about that...


Sun, 09/30/2012 - 19:32 | 2843708 Theos
Theos's picture

Like I said: looks legit!

I should have included a sarc tag.


I've studied EM fields, physics, power systems and been working in energy for years. These devices on youtube are so hillarious im spitting my beer on my monitor. 

"Hay take 4 diodes, a few 100uF capactors and an antenna and you get FREE ENERGY... LOOK it says 1 volt!!!!" 


I guess if anyone knew how a capacitor worked... ah fuck it.


Sun, 09/30/2012 - 19:54 | 2843739 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Glad to hear that Theos. SOme of the comments on Zh make me want to sell my pm's, get back on my spaceship, fly home ( a lovely place half way to the galactic center) and play Golf  with Knuckles 

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 21:15 | 2843866 NewThor
NewThor's picture

How many gallons of gasoline does your spaceship's tank hold?

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 19:31 | 2843709 pods
pods's picture

Hulk, might want to research the Methernitha  group out of Linden, Switzerland.


Sun, 09/30/2012 - 19:50 | 2843737 Theos
Theos's picture

Two counterrotating discs generate an electrostatic charge. One disc represents the earth, the other the clouds. The charges are bound using grid electrodes. After that, they are collected by non-contacting so-called "antenna keys," and then sorted.

After being initially turned on by hand, the discs rotate by themselves according to the electrostatic laws of attraction and repulsion. A rectifying diode keeps the cycles in a steady state. Otherwise, the impulses of attraction and repulsion would accumulate and cause the discs to run faster and faster — the correct speed is of great importance. For optimal power generation, the discs have to run quite steady and slow.

By means of grid condensers, the energy is stored and then uniformly discharged, at the same time reducing the high voltage and building up power with additional devices.

Finally, the machine supplies a uniform direct current, which varies according to the size of the model. The machine furnishes about 3-4 kW permanent output, depending on humidity, whereby the electric potential ranges from 270 to 320 volts.

High humidity of the atmosphere prevents the build-up of electric potential, so the drier the air, the better. No doubt, through the so-far-achieved results, one main objective has been reached, namely, to prove that it is possible to use free energy.

SOUNDS LEGIT! Things in bold are super legit.


Sun, 09/30/2012 - 22:51 | 2844019 Cosimo de Medici
Cosimo de Medici's picture

In Linden?  They're the guys who make those chocolates you can get at DutyFree, right?  Perpetual production line, you say?  Sweet!

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 17:49 | 2843539 Jason T
Jason T's picture

good..I'm long STP...bitchez.

Dr. Shi is smart cookie.  

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 17:50 | 2843543 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

Presumably the solar company, in contrast to the TBTF over here, makes something useful. 

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:06 | 2843570 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

Just to say a word here for the ZH old-timers, on behalf of Leo Kolivakis, one of the great early beacons of ZeroHedge contributors' humour.

Leo, a Greek-Canadian, was bullish on Chinese solars ... and Greek sovereign debt too.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:15 | 2843587 bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

brings a tear to my eye.   i miss that old straight man.

on topic,  i'll bet china will rue the day it re-engineed our bailout snafu for themselves.   serves em right.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:33 | 2843611 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

Didn't say I was bullish on 'em. Just that they have a product. 

What does JPM or GS do? That's of any use to humanity? 


Any time there's an open ended subsidy like this and below-cost dumping, trouble is on the way. 

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 17:51 | 2843544 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

Will the sun EVER shine on the solar industry?

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:20 | 2843593 bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

according to a good ol southern adage it will exactly twice a day.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:33 | 2843613 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

You're not as dumb as you look (you couldn't possibly be). ;)

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 19:56 | 2843741 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Areas with the most sun will have an unfair advantage. They must share their sun with those who have little sun.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 19:56 | 2843742 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Areas with the most sun will have an unfair advantage. They must share their sun with those who have little sun.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 17:52 | 2843545 Jason T
Jason T's picture

For the record, China spent $1 trillion more than the U.S. on gross capital formation in 2011 ... 

the future will undoutebly belong to China in my opinion..economically. 

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 17:59 | 2843555 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

Really? Are you counting or excluding the USA War Machine?

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 19:27 | 2843667 Jason T
Jason T's picture

just counting gross fixed capital formation


Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:39 | 2843624 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

The future . .economically, will belong to who has oil, and that ain't China.

It's Russia.  They get the future, which extends only a few decades before 6 of the 7 billion die off.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:41 | 2843629 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Canada is better off.... except that it is next to the US, which spells long term doom...

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 19:43 | 2843725 Cosimo de Medici
Cosimo de Medici's picture

Japan had similarly impressive figures in the late 1980s.  How did the 90s and 00s go for them?

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 20:45 | 2843822 honestann
honestann's picture

YES.  In the end, once everything is considered, all that matters is the quality and utility of what is produced, and the efficiency with which it is produced (factoring in everything, including any pollution involved).

In practice, this means not doing any project financied with fiat debt.  All bubbles must be avoided.

Which means, at this point in history, the world economy is utterly and totally screwed --- until all major governments collapse and vanish.  Sadly, what is more likely is that governments keep their ways and mankind remains forever royally screwed.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 22:19 | 2843959 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

Spend worthless US paper to keep your solar mfg competitive...sounds like a good use of depreciating paper.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 17:58 | 2843552 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Just trade solar panels for coal with aussies and rehypothecate the coal several times, problem solved, no bailout needed.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:00 | 2843557 nasdaq99
nasdaq99's picture

Government bubble economies.  where have they not blown a devastating bubble?  lets's see techs..check.  housing...check, commodities...check, precious metals....check, treasuries...check,  medicine...check, government compensation...check.  did i miss anything?  war & defense industries...check.


the bubble economy.  it's a razors edge.  if you believe they can inflate itout, it's go for broke.  if they fail, it's depression and the ultimate bubble collapse.  how can you INVEST in anything today?  it's only a trade ,  on everything.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 19:12 | 2843681 jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

did i miss anything? 


Fat asses hanging around food courts in shopping malls-

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:01 | 2843559 sampo
sampo's picture

That's a goal for silver!

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:05 | 2843563 Just Observing
Just Observing's picture

I know they are subsidizing the shit out of solar, but I'm loving sub-one buck/watt panel prices !

2007, average was in the 4 buck/watt range, now you can buy the best panels made for under 1.50/watt, and a lot of them for under a buck.

Buy 'em while you know it ain't gonna last.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:28 | 2843605 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture


Silicon, beeyotchez! 

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:52 | 2843645 delacroix
Sun, 09/30/2012 - 19:30 | 2843705 honestann
honestann's picture

BTW, I'm always on the lookout for another few KW of solar panels.  That's a great website, but which are "the best", and what characteristics make them "the best"?

The biggest problem with the panels I have installed now is gradual degredation (faster than expected, but only on some brands).  The next biggest problem is that some of them don't produce much of anything until the light intensity gets above a certain level (10am) while others right next to them (on the exact same plane) are more linear.

PS:  Even with these "problems", they are cheaper than hooking into an electric grid - in the long run.  And for me, well over 100 miles from the nearest connection to an electric grid, my solar-panels and wind-turbine make my modern, high-tech life in the extreme boonies both possible, convenient, practical and delightful.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 20:16 | 2843778 rtalcott
rtalcott's picture

The biggest problem with the panels I have installed now is gradual degredation (faster than expected, but only on some brands)


don't buy thin film monocrystalline...

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:58 | 2843657 James
James's picture

Just Observing, May I ask where you are getting those prices?


Sun, 09/30/2012 - 19:31 | 2843707 honestann
honestann's picture

Woops.  See my comment just below.  Which do you consider "the best" and why?

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:10 | 2843566 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 China went long the U.S. 5th-6th-7th Fleet?  Huuuraahhh! Here is a public post for ya. I'm sure Tyler has deeper resources than I do.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:27 | 2843601 flyonmywall
flyonmywall's picture

Solyndra part Deux? How do you say that in Chinese?



Sun, 09/30/2012 - 19:28 | 2843702 max2205
max2205's picture

Solyndra g?ngs? bùfèn dé s?i fu l?i?

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:27 | 2843603 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

The US and EU tariffs are proof the government doesn't give a shit about the environment.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:35 | 2843617 rtalcott
rtalcott's picture

I don't know anyone paying those tariffs...I am hearing the same $0.65-0.69/watt for monocrystalline modules and this stuffis coming from China...

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:34 | 2843615 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"beggar thy neighbor" has yet to explode on the scene...but clearly the USA is getting away with murder. Protectionism and currency debasement is generally a lethal combination. So China wants to bailout one of their company's? Eh, who cares? The Obama Administration bailed out that California one for 400 million I thought. Anywho there are no energy shortages in the USA...indeed energy prices have collapsed outside the oil patch. The economy is still in the tank...I'm not changing my tune: state and local governments are to be sacrificed in the name of Wall Street bailouts. Stay long equities...Treasuries will continue to hit one record high after another...the dollar is in the tank for as long as the you know who are in charge. Should be interesting to see what happens with the Middle East and North Africa in general and Israel in particular of course. Gold and Silver have rallied ferociously into "confetti day"...just as my friend and investment professional berated me for my silver calls last year no less. And of course should the House of Saud collapse...

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:39 | 2843626 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

In other news, fortune cookie fortune writers forced to have every fortune say "Stock market to go up in your future."

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:55 | 2843652 geminiRX
geminiRX's picture

Paging Leo...

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 19:01 | 2843665 chump666
chump666's picture

Solar companies are hopelessly indebted pipe dreams.

....and China is a hopelessly spinning towards turmoil.  Hence war looming, war bonds etc, to offset their inflation ridden Yuan.


Sun, 09/30/2012 - 19:19 | 2843686 honestann
honestann's picture

The key part of the article:  The US imposes import tarriffs to force prices to RISE.

As I keep saying, low prices are good for an economy, no matter where the low prices come from (inside or outside the country).  Every time a government makes the cost of living higher, it damages its own economy as well as the economy of the seller economy.  As long as this continues, people have less free money to spend, and the economy suffers.  And overall, it matters very little where the cheap goods came from.

Worldwide destitution, brought to you by predators-DBA-government.

PS:  If you want prices of solar-cells to rise, handing the manufacturer more money is the best way to slow that rise.  Leave the companies alone and eventually prices must rise to their natural and appropriate level.

PS:  For all you idiots who claim solar and wind energy are not viable or economic, you really do need to run the numbers again.  The fact is, wind and solar are cheaper than conventional power in a great many places.  AND, importantly to increasing minority, self-sufficiency is an increasingly important factor to consider.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 19:45 | 2843731 niccolo and donkey
niccolo and donkey's picture

Solar is already cheaper than nuclear when you factor in costs like insurance and waste disposal, plus the free water that they get from the government/LDCs.

Holland pays something like 34 Eurocents per kW/h while the Danes are up around 42 Eurocents per kW/h.  The tariffs for solar production in Germany are already far, far below that.

Grid parity is approaching in many places, the trick now is to revolutionize storage.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 20:51 | 2843800 honestann
honestann's picture

Yes indeed, if storage can be revolutionized, solar and wind look even better.  The less convenient but workable way to deal with storage is to "consume during the day and consume when windy".  Depending on what you need electricity for, this can be easy and reasonably convenient, or difficult and inconvenient.  And, as always, it costs today to implement these systems that save in the long run.

For example, if you spend lots of power heating and cooling, you can buy big chunks of cheap metal (probably iron), bury them under ground (under dwelling), and heat them up or cool them down when you have extra power.  Then you can pull out the heat or cold when you need them (and the sun isn't shining and wind isn't blowing).

Just having both solar and wind power is a major win in many (but not all) locations.  When it is sunny, the wind is usually fairly calm.  When the sun is hidden, often the wind is blowing.

The tradeoff with self-sufficient power systems always seems to be "spend now" to "save later" --- and be self-sufficient always.  For the minority of people like me, who lived frugally and saved [gold] for years, the "spend now" for self-sufficient systems works great.  For the majority of people who live the spendthrift "debt-gone-wild" lifestyle, borrowing to buy self-sufficient systems is less efficient.  But that's not the fault of the self-sufficient systems, that's the fault of the predators (in banks and governments) and foolish individuals who sucker for the debt-carrots they dangle in front of everyone.

Many times in the past I considered developing a flywheel storage system, but never had the time (and it always seemed too close to "marginal benefit versus cost").  What remains quite the useful modus-operandi with self-sufficient energy systems is "seeking efficiency".  For example, I spent the extra required to light everything with variable intensity, super-high-efficiency LED lights.

In my case I have highly efficient red LEDs for night.  Why?  Because red lights don't damage your dark adaption, so you need much less light to see "in the dark".  You'd be surprised how little red light you need in the pitch dark to clearly see where you're going, especially when you have rows of super faint red LEDs in the floor where you can walk safely.  And being the techie nerd, I even made them turn on and off as people approach and leave the area.  All this was a bit time inefficient when I built it, but I'll enjoy the results the rest of my life, and eventually recover my investment many times over.  My break-even isn't until roughly 2020 ~ 2022.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 22:20 | 2843966 Just Observing
Just Observing's picture

Unless the grid goes away by which case, you'll look like a REALLY smart cookie !

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 22:56 | 2844030 honestann
honestann's picture

Though I doubt that will happen, it could.  More likely the price of power from the grid will go through the roof while my own power continues to be "already bought and paid for".

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 02:53 | 2844245 SAME AS IT EVER WAS

"continue to suffer from US and European tariffs"


Yeah, imagine that-The good old U.S. of A. keeping self sufficient power unattainable-from a country that will procduce quaility panels for an affordable and reasonable price-due to sky high prices, thus protecting thieving energy compaines. Just like the currency, power is also a means to enslave and control a nation. 

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 19:21 | 2843694 IMA5U
IMA5U's picture

32mm is a drop in the bucket


not much of a bailout

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 19:52 | 2843738 Zola
Zola's picture

Mhh i think telsa was talking about a way to transmit energy over long distance using a reflection in the upper atmosphere or some kind of magnetic resonance with the earth's field. Probably also using different kind of wavelengths as standard radio. Who knows ? 

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 20:55 | 2843838 gregga777
gregga777's picture

Tesla may have been referring to the electrical current carrying ability of plasmas. Plasmas are considered to be the fourth state of matter. The first three states are solid, liquid, gas and the fourth is highly ionized gas.

Discard what you have been taught about the Big Bang THEORY and a gravitationally dominated Universe. The Universe is dominated by electrical phenomena. The electromagnetic force is a thousand trillion trillion trillion times stronger (10^39 X stronger) than gravity.

Tightly bound streamers of plasma have been detected, resembling somewhat a pair of twisted wires, actually named Birkeland currents, in deep space spanning tens of light years and more, conducting currents of a thousand trillion (10^18) amps. For instance Herbig-Halo object 111 (HH111) is a visible jet of current carrying plasma 12-light years long. The plasma is visible owing to the current flowing through it, dissipated as heat and electromagnetic radiation. Plasmas are not superconducting, hence some of the power flowing through them are dissipated as heat and radiated electromagnetic radiation.

Also, see the Jupiter-Io flux tube and plasma torus. As Io orbits Jupiter it travels in the plasma torus. It generates an electrical current flowing through the flux tube of about 2 trillion watts between Jupiter and Io along Jupiter's magnetic field lines.

Electrical currents flowing from Earth and Jupiter, to the Sun, have also been detected.

About 20% of the gas in space is ionized. Though the plasma is quite tenuous, space's enormous volume will allow transmission of unbelievably immense electrical currents.

Tesla's experiments with electricity transmission may have involved plasmas. Plasmas are not superconducting. They have a characteristic impedance of 30 Ohms. Therefore electricity transmission via plasmas incur power losses.

I have read that other people have said that Tesla claimed to be able transmit electricity without wires. I do not know what he actually claimed to have invented or demonstrated or whether it involved plasmas.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 19:57 | 2843744 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

Perhaps another ghost city project is called for.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 19:59 | 2843749 orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

More solar panel stuff. 


Not much said about cost, waste and energy used for replacing panels. 


Word is a 20-40 year life span - how's that for exact science?


And oil is catching wave 3 down.



Sun, 09/30/2012 - 20:04 | 2843758 Tombstone
Tombstone's picture

Marvelous how central planning stops poverty in its tracks.  I guess that's why The Dictator is so popular.  Pass me another free cell phone, please.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 20:19 | 2843781 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Would you mind dialing the "U.N.# for me?"  Both of my arms were severed at the wrist last year, when "FRanco oil deals were being finalized"!

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 20:19 | 2843782 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Screw the turtles. Cover Arizona, Neveda and Califoinia with that stuff - Buck a share - and let the Queen of the NoWO and BP eat cake.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 22:05 | 2843939 mademesmile
mademesmile's picture

In Missouri, the biggest electric company Ameren will pay you $2 per watt and buy the SRECS for $100 each / for 10 years. If you want to install it yourself, a 9.8 KW system (which is really big) will cost $9 K after rebates, and after the 30% FED tax credit, about $6K. Not bad for reducing your electric bill by 80% for the next 30 years. Even with these subsidies, not many people are pulling the trigger. Financing is the main issue, followed by public interest. Unless you have access to 40K, it's not going to happen. The rebates take about 4 months.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 23:02 | 2844047 Mark Noonan
Mark Noonan's picture

Just a little global revolution - kick them all out.  Don't kill them because we're just not like that...but exile all current government leaders to some third world piss pot.  Then just randomly pull names out of a hat as the new leaders.  Couldn't do any worse - and probalby do better simply because it would take them a while to learn how to steal.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 07:42 | 2844390 giovanni_f
giovanni_f's picture

+1. Third world piss pot: UK?

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