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Guest Post: The 71%

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by John Aziz of Azizonomics blog,

According to a recent CNN poll, 60% of Americans want go to war with Iran to prevent them from getting nuclear weapons.

This in spite of the fact that the US intelligence community is fairy unanimous that Iran is not even currently pursuing nuclear weapons. According to Micah Zenko:

First, as Director of National Intelligence James Clapper has repeatedly reaffirmed since late January, “we don’t believe they’ve actually made the decision to go ahead with a nuclear weapon.” Just yesterday, James Risen reported in the New York Times that the IC continues to believe (based on an assessment first made in November 2007) that Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei halted his country’s nuclear weapons activities in 2003.


This might be hard for many to grasp, since polling has found the American people disagree with the collective judgment of the 210,000 civilian and military employees and 30,000 private contractors comprising the IC. A recent poll found that 84 percent of Americans think Iran is developing nuclear weapons, while another from February 2010 concluded that 71 percent of Americans believe that Iran currently has nuclear weapons.

So 60% of Americans believe Iran should be attacked to prevent nuclear proliferation. Simultaneously 71% of Americans — in total contradiction to the evidence recognised by both the CIA and Mossad that Iran is not currently even developing a nuclear weapon — believe that Iran currently has nuclear weapons. There is almost certainly a high degree of overlap — and that’s some severe cognitive dissonance. Where are such ideas coming from?

There are some voices in the wilderness that are expressing the view that Iran already has a nuclear weapon to anyone who will listen.

According to Reza Kahlili, who claims to be a former CIA spy who infiltrated the Iranian Revolutionary Guard:

The pressure the United States and the West is bringing to bear on Iran to keep it from acquiring nuclear weapons is all for naught. Not only does the Islamic Republic already have nuclear weapons from the old Soviet Union, but it has enough enriched uranium for more. What’s worse, it has a delivery system.

And where did Iran supposedly get those weapons?

In the early 1990s, the CIA asked me to find an Iranian scientist who would testify that Iran had the bomb. The CIA had learned that Iranian intelligence agents were visiting nuclear installations throughout the former Soviet Union, with particular interest in Kazakhstan.


Meanwhile, Paul Muenstermann, then vice president of the German Federal Intelligence Service, said Iran had received two of the three nuclear warheads and medium-range nuclear delivery systems from Kazakhstan. It also was reported that Iran had purchased four 152 mm nuclear shells from the former Soviet Union, which were reportedly stolen and sold by former Red Army officers.


To make matters worse, several years later, Russian officials stated that when comparing documents in transferring nuclear weapons from Ukraine to Russia, there was a discrepancy of 250 nuclear weapons.


Lt. Col. Tony Shaffer, an experienced intelligence officer and recipient of a Bronze Star, told me that his sources say Iran has two workable nuclear warheads

Unlike the 71%, I’m not really convinced by this — if anything, it could be Iranian disinformation to try and avoid an American or Israeli attack. More importantly, the US and Israeli intelligence community at large don’t buy it. If they had any real evidence that Iran had a bomb today, Netanyahu would have been presenting it at the UN instead of drawing red lines on Wile E. Coyote bomb diagrams.

But if it were true, it would illustrate an extremely important point — that Iran with a nuclear weapon has not tried to obliterate Israel or the United States.

And if America were to attack Iran to prevent Iran from gaining a nuclear weapon, and Iran already has a nuclear weapon, the consequence could be thousands or millions of death — an attack on Iran would be even more dangerous and misadventurous for both the West and Israel than it already seems.

That makes the fact that a majority of Americans — as well as a disturbing number of hawkish policy analysts and talking heads like Reza Kahlili — agree that Iran already has a nuclear weapon, and that Iran should be attacked even more mind-boggling. To conclude (based on rumours and hear’say) that Iran already has a nuclear weapon, and simultaneously to encourage an attack on them is the height of foolishness.


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Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:07 | 2845835 SilverTree
SilverTree's picture

War, what is it good for?

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:12 | 2845874 MillionDollarBoner_
MillionDollarBoner_'s picture


Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:25 | 2845963 knukles
knukles's picture

I'm all for war with Iran.
After all, I just got finished with a war with China and you know what that's like... as soon as you're done you want another one already.


Mon, 10/01/2012 - 15:51 | 2846284 economics9698
economics9698's picture

If Iran is suffering hyperinflation time to take a step back and let them self implode.  Why interfere?

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 16:04 | 2846323 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

The CNN poll is BS.  Here is the question America:  Do you want a war that will kill millions and accomplish nothing.  Now poll that, bitchez.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 16:20 | 2846379 BigJim
BigJim's picture

The answer would probably be yes. I mean, if the debacles in Iraq + Afganistan aren't enough to wake up the US populace...

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 16:25 | 2846397 imaginalis
imaginalis's picture

71% of Americans thought they would win the Ryder Cup

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 16:44 | 2846470 BigJim
BigJim's picture

  According to a recent CNN poll, 60% of Americans want go to war with Iran to prevent them from getting nuclear weapons.

Hey Aziz, I think you've messed up with this one. The poll you've linked to doesn't ask that question.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 17:02 | 2846513 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

According to recent Pravda poll, majority of Russians support Putin

According to recent CNN poll, 50% of Americans have IQ lower than 100.

According to recent poll, 0% of mothers say their babies are ugly.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 17:58 | 2846643 trebuchet
trebuchet's picture

I read somewhere Al Khamenei interpretation of Muslim doctrine is that that holding nuclear weapons is a sin.

As the article says - if Israel had evidence it would have presented it.  

The intelligence community all agree that Iran does not have a nuclear weapon. They disagree about the Capability to make one, and the length of time it will take for Iran to make one (6 weeks, 6 months, 6 years? that determines the strike readiness countries need)  and have asked via IAEA for access to assess that CAPABILITY. 

Its like saying to a bunch of black/muslim/christian/gay/[enter your personal prejudice here] people living in a neighbourhood - i think you have the capability to kill and dont trust you so let me monitor and inspect your personal possessions to assess your CAPABILITY to be harmful to the neighbour hood and if I think you have that capability i am going to kill you. 

Nentyahu's very effective slide showed precisely at which point it will judge first: when ISRAEL thinks Iran has a 90% CAPABILITY. It is not going to wait to find out if the person gets to 100% or even when at 100% capability is going to use the weapon, it is going to execute that person for having a 90% CAPABILITY. 

So, what's the difference between that and a country saying that it has decided that its citizens with a  90% CAPABILITY of normal intelligence  are a threat to the rest and therefore is justified in exterminating them?



Mon, 10/01/2012 - 18:08 | 2846670 NaN
NaN's picture

IQ tests are revised to be harder, every 10-20 years.  That means if everyone were tested at once with the latest test, the average and median score would probably be below 100.  


Mon, 10/01/2012 - 20:55 | 2847024 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture


Physics implies the probability that not all polls can be wrong.  But, there was one last week, or the week before, that I found astonishing, in this presidential political poll not one single person identifying as a likely voter of African American heritage planned to vote for Romney.  Shit, I know of at least 4 blacks that voted for McCain.  Not one, zero.  Zilch. 

As to Russians, they are so unused to being polled (or getting phone calls) they will agree with anything you say just to be polite.  The average Russian is a sweeter form of life than the average westerner, not to well informed, but endearing all the same.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 16:17 | 2846366's picture


If Iran is suffering hyperinflation time to take a step back and let them self implode.  Why interfere?


But it is US interference through sanctions which is causing the economic turmoil in Iran. So do you want to interfere or not interfere?

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:25 | 2845967 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

Iran, Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Moroco, Saudi Arabia ... blah, blah, blah ... all the same to me. All of these countries are threats to our freedom and our way of life in America. These bastards showed no mercy during 911, but that won't stop domestic terrorists on Zerohedge from creating huge sob-stories about why we shouldn't invade them.  

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:33 | 2846001 SemperFord
SemperFord's picture

Milliondollahduffus, you are on ZH, so that makes you a domestic terrorist...crazy huh?

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 15:52 | 2846286 economics9698
economics9698's picture

He works at the BLS making $150,000 a year.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 18:44 | 2846731 MillionDollarBogus_
MillionDollarBogus_'s picture

He's your troll, and I'm his troll............

MDB has been getting more positive green arrows lately....

Not sure why, or what that means....


Mon, 10/01/2012 - 20:59 | 2847034 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Maybe because you are not MILLION DOLLAR BONUS and nobody spotted the "G" in your handle.  But, anyone that uses that dollar sign as an avatar gets a red arrow from me no matter what they post and most of the time I slide right past what is written there, MDB so contaminated that symbol that it is now a symbol for internet trollery.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:49 | 2846080 nugjuice
nugjuice's picture

You gave yourself away. People who would actually believe this A) Would think Morocco are those things Spanish people shake, and B) wouldn't be able to name nearly that many foreign countries that aren't Canada or Mexico.


Edit: +1 nonetheless ;)

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 15:05 | 2846134 Darth Mul
Darth Mul's picture

The fuck are you talking about?  What had those countries to do with 9/11 and what does 9/11 have to do with Iran?


Be gone, Hasbara Troll - the military knows Israel and it's Ziocon allies in the US government did 9/11.


Alex Jones blames it on everyone but Zionist Neocons.


Funny, ain't it?  Given where all the evidence points?


Alex Jones is the equivalent of a "false messiah" wrapped in a false flag, surrounded.... surounded and supported by rabidly pro-Israel types.





Mon, 10/01/2012 - 16:40 | 2846449 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

You shouldn't take MDB seriously.  He's always good for a laugh.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 15:35 | 2846217 Zero_Hope
Zero_Hope's picture


Mon, 10/01/2012 - 16:24 | 2846389 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture


First, who is this "these bastards" you refer to?

Is Jamie AkmaDimonhead or Ayatollah Lloyd Blankfuck running some sort of coverty bullhshitty black op that you don't like? Hmmmm?

Second, you war-mongering little stain on society, the REAL WAR we need to wage is to CARPET BOMB the halls of your beloved BANKS, FEDERAL RESERVE, AND THE "INTELLIGENT BENEVLOENT CONGRESS" that you throne lick and dry hump like a rat dog that you are.

Iran? They can impode by themselves....

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 18:04 | 2846660 trebuchet
trebuchet's picture


There are only 2 reasons for not supporting an invasion on those grounds.


2. It gives them PERMISSION to invade your ASS-CRACK on similar grounds and to demand your BACKING when they do it since you agreed to it in the first place when they did it to someone else. 

If you dont believe it is morally wrong, just bend over and enjoy the wait. 



Mon, 10/01/2012 - 17:53 | 2846630 NaN
NaN's picture

War is a debt generator, not a GDP improver, especially when the true costs and externalities are tallied.  Arms manufacturers stand to gain, but the costs are shared. 


Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:12 | 2845875 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture


Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:13 | 2845886 redpill
redpill's picture

In case anyone forgot, we gave Iran highly enriched uranium in 1967.  I guess it never occurred to anyone that the wind could change direction some day.

The real question is, why WOULDN'T Iran want a nuke?  If you have nukes the US wants to be your ally.  If you don't they want to be your bully.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:39 | 2846028 CommunityStandard
CommunityStandard's picture

Exactly.  Arab nations are being invaded by the US one by one.  The US has never invaded a nuclear armed country.  Do the math.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:45 | 2846067 darteaus
darteaus's picture

Do drone strikes on Pock-istan count?

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 15:16 | 2846157 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Right, but statistics don't have anything to do with a particular instance.  It isn't enough just to have a nuke...  we probably know where it is...  of where a decent number of them are...  we'll act to secure them first thing on invasion...  just like we have plans for pakistan's nukes should anything happen to the governmental structure.

It isn't enough to have a nuke...  you need to have a lot of nukes AND they need to be capable of obliterating a major city...  unless you meet these criteria, prepare to be invaded...  cody wants a pony.


Mon, 10/01/2012 - 15:15 | 2846161 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

US has proved again and again and again that if you do not have nukes and have wealth, you will be robbed and destroyed.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:15 | 2845899 kito
kito's picture

pentagon welfare recipients.............

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:20 | 2845935 timbo_em
timbo_em's picture

The military-industrial complex.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:29 | 2845989 AnonymousCitizen
AnonymousCitizen's picture

Absolutely nuthin

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:50 | 2846085 Overfed
Overfed's picture

The Rothschilds and Rockefellers?

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:55 | 2846101 Boondocker
Boondocker's picture

Wow, I am really supposed to believes a boatload of bureaucrats who "heard it from sources" that they do have/don't have a bomb......and that somehow that true information is going to find the light of day.


Mon, 10/01/2012 - 16:19 | 2846380's picture

The intelligence community was left holding the bag when it turned out that (surprise, surprise) Iraq had no WMD. It seems like they don't want to be put into that position again.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 15:38 | 2846234 ConstantineK
ConstantineK's picture

Assuming this is not a rhetorical and,hence, power.  An intelligent 14 year old could answer that with conviction but apparently not the 71% of our people to whom critical thinking means nothing. About the same percentage believed a few years back that Saddam Housein was behind the 9/11 attacks. Does that say anything to anybody?

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 18:51 | 2846754 Umh
Umh's picture

Remember thats 71% of the 9% that respond to pollsters.


Heh; that's like the small percentage that respond to MDB.

Tue, 10/02/2012 - 08:17 | 2847811 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

"War, what is it good for?"

It's good for business!

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:08 | 2845842 MichaelNY
MichaelNY's picture

Insanity reigns...and it's not an accident.  :-(

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:16 | 2845903 Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture

Generations of Americans have been taught what to think and not how to think.  They have been taught to accept insanity without questioning it.  It has gotten to the point where rational, logical thought is rejected and labled "insanity" and, as you correctly point out, "insanity reigns".

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 16:21 | 2846386's picture

Enter Darwin.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 17:01 | 2846508 SubjectivObject
SubjectivObject's picture

Degenerations of Americans ...

Tue, 10/02/2012 - 03:48 | 2847585 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Tragically, that is too true ... In light of

The Global Spring

True enough, except for the optimism ...



They are guaranteed to regress and be more stupid and to attack each other, and so on, and so forth, NOT wake up to the banksters as their real enemy.

What I feel sad about is that when "Darwin Enters" and the only way to cope with the mass stupidity of the sheeple is that the elites will slaughter them off, is that, not only will I be caught up in that stampede, but so many young children will too!  If it were only the adults, that were idiots, and were going to get slaughtered, after being fleeced and fleeced, because they are way too stupid to do anything realistic to prevent that, then I would not care as much. However, what bothers me is that the god damn stupid sheeple that are the majority of Americans are destroying the future of their children. Those children are innocent of that evil, since those children are not being deliberately ignorant, like the adults are. However the worst of the effects of the sheeple being slaughtered, because they ARE so stupid, is that their children will be too!

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 20:06 | 2846904 DosZap
DosZap's picture

 in total contradiction to the evidence recognised by both the CIA and Mossad that Iran is not currently even developing a nuclear weapon


Then WHY is NetanyaHOO, bleating like a sheep.I would think BinYamin would certainly have access to this intel.Source for the Mossad info??.............

Something stinks.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:08 | 2845843 unionbroker
unionbroker's picture

81% of Americans probably could not even find Iran on the world map

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:13 | 2845883 MillionDollarBoner_
MillionDollarBoner_'s picture

81% of Americans probably could not even find their arse in the dark...

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:17 | 2845911 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

99% dont know what the petrodollar is and 99.9% dont know that exonn mobil runs the state dept, the treasury and the war dept..............

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:18 | 2845923 Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

Exxon Mobil? Do they carry iPhone5? I might consider a 3 year data plan with them.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:32 | 2845999 Common_Cents22
Common_Cents22's picture

i want me a free obamaphone too!

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:41 | 2846041 CommunityStandard
CommunityStandard's picture

It's called TFTW - too fat to wipe.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:16 | 2845906 aint no fortuna...
aint no fortunate son's picture

I know, I know!!!! Its right between Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Afghanistan - what a coincidence the US has about a gazillion troops and planes and ships and missles right there, such a great coincidence eh?

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:22 | 2845948 Bear
Bear's picture

Isn't it over there somewhere?

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 16:23 | 2846392's picture



Over there, over there,
Send the word, send the word over there -
That the Yanks are coming,
The Yanks are coming,
The drums rum-tumming
So prepare, say a pray'r,
Send the word, send the word to beware.
We'll be over, we're coming over,
And we won't come back till it's over
Over there.


Pardon me while I vomit.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 16:37 | 2846428 akak
akak's picture



Over there, over there,
Send the word, send the word over there -
That the tanks are coming,
The banks are coming,
The neocons war-chumming
So beware, say a pray'r,
Buy some gold, dig a hole and prepare.
They'll be over, they're coming over,
And they won't come back till independence is over
Over there.

Tue, 10/02/2012 - 08:27 | 2847833 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Number one, Number one...number one at selling guns for your sons.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:09 | 2845845 Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

They may not need a false flag attack after all.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 15:02 | 2846124 neptunium
neptunium's picture

Congratulations, you are a winrar. the first person to shout FAAAALSE FLAAAAG 


Fuck iran, they are complete cunts, they're the fuckers who sell KEP's to anyone who'll buy them, the same things that 98% of the time target civilians, the fact that you're a bunch of conspiracy circlejerkers who believe that somehow you understand the entire world (despite the fact that apparently those that control it are unable to shut you down) I think the number of despotic theocratic regimes controlling enriched uranium is probably best kept at a minimum. 

Yes, no evidence, Iran is willing to enjoy insurrection and poverty simply because it fucking loves producing uranium for it's power needs... the nation with around ~9% of oil reserves, the one that 'accidentally' enriched beyond 20%, (what a terrible, easy-to-do mistake). 

Yet the same fuckwits that will vote down this post will also vote up the post above that explains that states with nuclear weapons tend to be immune from "US action". 

So why are they willing to forgo sanctions, the Ayatollah's doing it as a matter of principle I suppose?

You may not want war, that's admirable, but there's no conspiracy here, if you like deducing actions from motives then what is the fucking issue? 

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 15:26 | 2846193 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Say what? Run that by us again and this time explain what you are talking about.  Is there a point, is there even an argument you are trying to make?

Is this simply a way of saying the USA rules the world and Iran should know that they are subject to USA orders? Or is this a Israeli response to anything that may not conform to the agenda of the chosen nation?

Anyways, USA invaded Iraq and killed tens of thousands based on lies. USA stays in Afghanistan and keeps the reborn drug trade going full tilt. One wonders where the moral authority of USA comes from. Spreaders of freedom?

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 15:50 | 2846281 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Jack Burton said:

One wonders where the moral authority of USA comes from. Spreaders of freedom?

It comes from the propaganda reinforced myth that "USA = the good guys".

I think the myth is wearing dangerously thin. That the propaganda being used to prop it up has descended to an obviously Soviet level displays a certain degree of desperation:

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 15:35 | 2846222 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

neptunium, raving and drooling:

if you like deducing actions from motives then what is the fucking issue?

Let's reverse it and deduce motives from actions.

Action: ranting paranoia regarding Iran.

Motive: Israel firster.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 16:10 | 2846342 johnnymustardseed
johnnymustardseed's picture

Hey Neptunium, name one war Iran started???
Hope you volunteer to go over there and fight since
you have so much anger for them.
Maybe you are so tough you can win that war
in a week and prevent oil from going to $500 a
barrel. You are a real smart patriot!!

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:09 | 2845846 FL_Conservative
FL_Conservative's picture

No fucking way that 60% of Americans want to go to war right now or that 71% think Iran already has a nuclear bomb.  That's bullshit polling.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:20 | 2845930 Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

What then? You prefer another 9/11 to make those statistics true?

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:33 | 2846003 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Dude, it's a telephone poll with N = 1015. LOL if anyone actually thinks that's an accurate measure of popular opinion or otherwise.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 15:48 | 2846273 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

Diebold now makes telephone calls? /sarc

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:38 | 2846020 FL_Conservative
FL_Conservative's picture

No, I expect that we should use INTELLIGENCE, not SPECIAL INTERESTS to figure this out, especially since the Iraq WMD turned out to be a crock.  Oh, I forgot.  Somehow, this time is different.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:58 | 2846115 Boondocker
Boondocker's picture

did you miss the news on Syria's program.....?  And all the nerve agents we sold them/helped them build.......

But nukes.....nope......

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:23 | 2845956 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

The function of Polling is to make Bullshit seem plausible by selling people on the idea that "most people believe ...."

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:28 | 2845983 john39
john39's picture

a million idiots couldn't possibly be wrong....

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:35 | 2846009 FL_Conservative
FL_Conservative's picture

They could be, if they were suggesting that we should go to war.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 15:34 | 2846215 Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

There is a way which seemeth right unto an idiot, but the end thereof are the ways of death

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 19:47 | 2846867 1CQ
1CQ's picture

The photo speaks volumes.  Considering Apple created a new professional job category by paying people to stand in about paying some folks to appear to be pro war in terms of Iran?

Then again, the masses will buy just about anything!

I'm reminded of the scene in Red Dawn where the imprisoned dad says "it's's all gone."

We're gonners!  ZHers are a minority with confirmation biases.  We know whats happening and we realize its all gone!

Informed but powerless

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:26 | 2845969 goodrich4bk
goodrich4bk's picture

You would be correct.  The poll cited by this post's author says nothing about war and even less about Iran.  It's mostly a poll concerning North Korea and never asks whether the polled America would want to go to war with Iran for any reason.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:37 | 2846013 Carl Spackler
Carl Spackler's picture

The whole story, by a guy with the Middle Eastern surname of Aziz, is quite sketchy propaganda.

Plus, the only time 71% of Americans agree upon something is when American Idol is on tv.

NOWHERE in the western world is it being reported that the U.S. intelligence agencies unanimously agree that Iran does not have nuclear weapons capabilities nor is actively pursuing nuclear weapons capabilities. Ergo, you cannot base an argument on the premise that "the American government" believes x or y.

As well, there is no mention of a key player, Pakistani nuclear scientist AQ Khan, in the Aziz propaganda. 

That further weakens the credibility of his garbage.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 16:31 | 2846425 BigJim
BigJim's picture

 The whole story, by a guy with the Middle Eastern surname of Aziz...

...writes Mister 'Spackler' 

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:09 | 2845851 news printer
news printer's picture

According to CIA

Portugal equals to ...

P and P = 2 P

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:14 | 2845892 Muddy1
Muddy1's picture

That would be the same agency that told us about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction that were moved to Syria, but now can't be found in Syria.  And the same agency that provided General Powell with the video of the "mobile missle launcher" travelling through the countryside.  You remember Powell and the video show????  It was a Fing fuel delivery truck.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:36 | 2846012 Common_Cents22
Common_Cents22's picture

oh so Syria doesnt have chem/bio weapons?

even the affirmative action, pre-emptive nobel peace prize winning president says so.

Obama says his 'red line' in Syria conflict is WMD

WASHINGTON – President Obama has declared the threat of chemical or biological warfare in Syria a "red line" for the United States, outlining for the first time the point at which his administration could feel forced to intervene militarily in the Arab country's increasingly messy conflict.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 16:29 | 2846414's picture

Well if Obama said it it must be true.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:09 | 2845853 Joe A
Joe A's picture

On the other hand, only 25% of Americans believe a possible war with Iran has to do with US dominance over Eurasia.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 15:17 | 2846164 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

dominance is so 20th Century. now it's care and concern

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 15:26 | 2846190 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Yep, the people care very little about reality, and it's the gubbamint's concern to keep it that way.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 17:03 | 2846514 Joe A
Joe A's picture

Ah, putting a human face to it. That will be a big comfort when your life is torn to pieces, knowing that someone cares and has concerns. Actually, that might be a burden to someone who has just been bombed: knowing that someone in DC has been up many nights being all caring and concerned.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:10 | 2845858 MillionDollarBoner_
MillionDollarBoner_'s picture

"Paul Muenstermann".

I love it. German for "Boogerman" !:O)

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:11 | 2845862 4Y_LURKER
4Y_LURKER's picture

LOL tyler "fairy unanimous"

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:11 | 2845865 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

Please Please stop confusing this issue with facts and debate......let's just do what is necessary to prevent war and start a war

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:11 | 2845867 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Supposedly some 60 or so percent also believe that 30k drones in American skies is a good thing too......

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 16:42 | 2846458 optimator
optimator's picture

They'll be armed drones, and that 60% will feel even more protected, from what they can't guess.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:11 | 2845868 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I don't believe that horse shit for a minute. That's a bunch of crap trying to push the war machine meme.... If in case that polling is accurate let them go fight the fucking war and leave my kids out of it!

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:12 | 2845869 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

And what percent of Americans have a reading level above the eighth grade?

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:20 | 2845933 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

Now, "Ate grade".where overweight americans graduate with honors...thats 70% at least..

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:11 | 2845870 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

USA Today September 6, 2003

Poll: 70% believe Saddam, 9-11 link

WASHINGTON (AP) — Nearly seven in 10 Americans believe it is likely that ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the Sept. 11 attacks, says a poll out almost two years after the terrorists' strike against this country.

"The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence that it is not utterly absurd."
Bertrand Russell

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:15 | 2845900 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

Things that make you hmmm...

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:30 | 2845986 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

You ever get the feeling that they keep "polling" the same group of people?

I know nobody has ever called me and asked me what I think.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:58 | 2846110 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

I think they are going after people with land lines...that cross section of the demographic gets smaller and smaller...I think by now it's soley the domain of old folks homes denizens waiting for a call from their niece and Long Island bookies...

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 16:31 | 2846422's picture

Why would I want a cell phone?

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 16:42 | 2846460 akak
akak's picture

I always ask the gadget-obsessed, trend-sucking sheep who obediently fall prey to every new corporate mass-marketing campaign the same question as well.

Tue, 10/02/2012 - 08:30 | 2847844 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

The bookies use Tor and SSH tunnelling now.


Mon, 10/01/2012 - 15:07 | 2846142 resurger
resurger's picture

how did you manage to find that link from 2003! ne way its all bullsht!

Fuck the whore media

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 17:08 | 2846524 Canuckistan Al
Canuckistan Al's picture

Nut'in surprises me anymore, after all, 12 years later apparently "some Americans" still believe the 9/11 terrorists came into the country from Canada (via the reverse underground railroad)

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 15:04 | 2846128 resurger
resurger's picture


Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:11 | 2845871 Just Observing
Just Observing's picture

90% of all Americans are idiots.

Similar percentages are found worldwide.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:16 | 2845902 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

You are too kind.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:13 | 2845884 Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture

One more of the wonderful benefits of centralized power: the ability to wage war and force (in this case) 310 million people to support it, pay for it and even fight and die in it.

Freedom is over rated and old fashioned.  Centralization FTW!!

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:14 | 2845888 jldpc
jldpc's picture

They deserve to be run out of power - using anything available - just because they cause so much trouble; and deaths of Americans. Without their "trouble" -and finacing of almost any and every group - opposed to us - our lives would be much easier. More than sufficient reason to remove them, now or any day the sun comes up.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:59 | 2846120 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

I see you hate the US executive branch as much as I do...

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 15:31 | 2846201 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Yeah, yeah, but what about IRAN?

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:14 | 2845889 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

71% of the armchair warriors, maybe.

Im for sending the kids, grandkids, spouses, and the ones that vote for war, not first, only.

Fastest way to peace, imo...

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:16 | 2845909 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

You all miss the point.

Who CARES if "Iran has nuclear weapons"...?  Even if they do, that's NO justification for war.

And with the zionist religious zealots next door, they probably should have them anyway...

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:16 | 2845910 Darth Mul
Darth Mul's picture

Yep - not about nukes.  Different actors have different motivations, but you can bet the major motivators are those looking to prop up the petrodollar {too little too late} and the mostly Jewish neocons, and their confederate Zionist 5th columnists... who want to remove Iran's regime in order to stop material and economic support for Hezbollah to allow Israel to invade, occupy, ethnically cleanse and settle southern Lebanon, and complete it's bantustanization of the West Bank while keeping the media's eyes off its ongoing ethnic cleansing, settler attacks, settlement expansion, and so forth.

What's amazing is... they did this same shit in Iraq, and people can't recall it.


The aggressive lying about Iran proves that Zionists have de facto control of mainstream media.  If that doesn't convince you, the shrilled the cry of "antisemite" when one proposes a set of facts x, y, z - the more likely the set of facts x, y, z, is to be both true and demonstrative of Zionist racialist megalomania.


Lieberman is blitzing to get the Zionists' current pupper to legislate via executive order to take over the internet.


Read and and while ye can.


We're going to lose, you know. Ron Paul was our last best chance to restore the isuing power to The People, in accordance with the Constitution, which was unlawfully transferred to private banks on Christmas Eve 1913.


Funny how after organizations designed to stop war, or stop depressions, let to periods of far more of both.



Mon, 10/01/2012 - 15:39 | 2846244 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

If you want to see a bit more variance in opinion, you can always just read the Israeli press. It's hecka lot better than you're going to find in the USA.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:17 | 2845912 Inthemix96
Inthemix96's picture

War mongers.  Your kids go first.

Then you.

Think on it, not all 71% are fucking stupid.  Extreme predujice is required here folks.

Fuck you obama, and fuck you cameron, leave us out of it you cunts

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:18 | 2845920 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Well, I'm sure we can trust that poll if it came from CNN.

Ask them how much they got paid to publish it, and by whom.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:24 | 2845961 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

Youre not insinuating they post paid for articles as news,, are you?


You are onto something..

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:41 | 2846040 Common_Cents22
Common_Cents22's picture

CNN has been doing that for a long time, overlooking Saddam Hussein atrocities in return for media access.   Oh and don't forget Jaco's fauxformance.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 16:39 | 2846445 optimator
optimator's picture

Ask the CNN commentator, whats his name, you know,  the former spokesman for AIPAC, where they get the numbers, he'd know.  Name's a kinda like "Blitzkrieg" I think.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:21 | 2845938 Bear
Bear's picture

Where is Cindy Sheehan?

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:22 | 2845950 Darth Mul
Darth Mul's picture


Poll: Nearly 8 in 10 Americans believe in angels


If Americans knew about WTC 7, or the dozens of Mossad agents arrested in and around 9/11, they'd demand a new investigation.  But they don't know, and aren't told, hence they think anyone suggesting the story we've been told is, at least, not wholly accurate, is merely a "conspiracy theorist."


Which is why we can't have nice things.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:27 | 2845975 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

I think the important question is -- how many angels still believe in America ?

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:23 | 2845951 goodrich4bk
goodrich4bk's picture

Niether you nor the author even read the cited poll.  It doesn't say anything of the sort.  It doesn't mention the word war and doesn't even ask the question described in this asshole's post.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:24 | 2845962 hannah
hannah's picture

71% of americans cant see their own dick because of their fat guts....what ...are we going to sit on iran...?

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:28 | 2845970 Turin Turambar
Turin Turambar's picture

Okay, I'm not for going to war with Iran, but I do have some questions:

1.  Why are we to believe the government's assessment of the situation?  I'd prefer to flip a coin or ask the octopus that correctly predicted recent world cup match victories.


2.  "This might be hard for many to grasp, since polling has found the American people disagree with the collective judgment of the 210,000 civilian and military employees and 30,000 private contractors comprising the IC.

Yeah, I'm all for collective judgment.  Wow, and look at the numbers - 240,000 total.  THAT'S impressive.  Evidently, even the janitors and other cleaning personnel know the truth.  I'm glad their input was requested.  I feel so much better now.

Of course, it's not even remotely possible that polls might be used to influence public opinion and even justify future policy.  NAH!  That could NEVER happen.  That would be akin to rigging polls to show an Obama lead in order to suppress Romney turnout.  Yeah, that's tinfoil hat stuff.  ;-) 

Lying, sociopathic, warmongering, asshats.  Get a rope and a tree.  I'm so sick and tired of this crap.


/rant off


Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:26 | 2845972 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

Is this about the same percentage as people that watch television?   causation noted.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:27 | 2845973 dolph9
dolph9's picture

People here might believe that Americans are capable of being "peaceful libertarians."

You are wrong.

Americans love war.  We like to play around with bombing other people, we've done it for a long time and we aren't going to stop now, and we will gladly do it to make ourselves feel good.

You people don't know the half of it.  Throughout my life I've swam in liberal circles, very liberal.  They all LOVE war.  Every last one of them thinks we should be the world's policeman and intervene everywhere and anywhere, costs and lives be damned.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 16:34 | 2846435's picture

Who the hell is "we?"

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:28 | 2845974 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

China will never allow us to do anything to Iran because Iran is their oilfield.  At this point, that should be clear.  Hillary needs to STFU and stop embarrassing the country.  A war with Iran has the potential to drag the world economy into a massive global trade war which will result in an even worse depression.  That will be followed swiftly by a real WW3--Not some fake neocon wet dream of free money arms deals and Boeing stock boners.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:33 | 2846005 Joe A
Joe A's picture

How would China do that? They have only one aircraft carrier, without any aircrafts. Their army would have to march through Afghanistan where -how convenient- NATO is, besides the fact that Afghanistan is pretty inhospitible place. They could dump the 1 trillion in US bonds on the market but then lose 1 trillion dollars. The US and Europe could pull their manufacturing back home and China's economy would collapse. And that would mean civil unrest. The US a long time decided that they wanted to dominate Eurasia and that China would be their next big opponent. That is all playing out now.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 15:32 | 2846207 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

One problem... all the manufacturing is in Asia now.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:27 | 2845977 bnbdnb
Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:27 | 2845978 frenchie
frenchie's picture

so at least 71% of americans are stupid goyim ?

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:28 | 2845979 topspinslicer
topspinslicer's picture

The only problem is I see these near daily muslim riots around the world where they are offended if a flying bird poops on a holy statue and I think to myself are these the type of people that should be allowed to get even close to cracking the power of the atom???? Me thinks NOT!!!!!!!!!!!

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:57 | 2846109 Sweet Chicken
Sweet Chicken's picture

Geez are you stupid.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 16:38 | 2846444's picture


The only problem is I see these near daily muslim riots around the world where they are offended if a flying bird poops on a holy statue


Muslim don't have holy statues, moron.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 22:01 | 2847195 topspinslicer
topspinslicer's picture

Replace statue with "jomeya" or house of worship you fuckhead -- didn't think it would be that hard for you to capture the imagery douchebag

Tue, 10/02/2012 - 01:01 | 2847442's picture

Say what you mean, asshole.


Tue, 10/02/2012 - 02:15 | 2847495 Cosimo de Medici
Cosimo de Medici's picture

Yes, no representations of living things.  A few years ago---and this may still be true---it was illegal to bring a stuffed animal into Saudi Arabia.  The Ulema had ruled that something like a teddybear might have a soul, and the government concluded that if it had a soul it would need a visa for entry.  Thus, Customs rifled the bags of incoming passengers in case some smuggler was bringing in a load of Beanie Babies.

Oh, and to this day the penalty for practicing any religion other than Islam in Saudi Arabia is death by public beheading.  Not a single church from Yenbu to Jubail, the Nafuz to the Ru'ub al Khali.  Outlawed.

These are the most respected and "sophisticated" members of society making those rules against teddybears and other faiths.  It is not much of a leap to suspect that those less educated and "sophisticated" members of such societies might get apoplectic over what they believe is a dissing of The One and Only Truth.

By the way, none of those who protest against cartoons, books or films has taken to the streets for a single second to protest lack of religious freedom in the heart of the Koran Belt.  If the US banned mosques and Islam under penalty of public beheading, I'll bet more than a few would get riled.

I am not in any way arguing that US Mideast policy is without guilt, but in no way does it fully explain the reaction to things deemed offensive.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:28 | 2845981 hannah
hannah's picture

71% of americans think that a race of beings can travel thru space and land on earth and all they do is anal probing when they get here....?!

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:32 | 2846000 Darth Mul
Darth Mul's picture
Netanyahu in 1992: Iran close to having nuclear bomb


Oh, also, Bibi was told by a rabidly racist rabbi to help bring about the return of the Jewish Messiah who will have his capital in Jerusalem from where he and the Jews, whom apparently the Creator "chose" despite better options even in the immediate area - will rule the world.



It's really not about "Jews" but about Talmudic Fundamentalists and Zionists...   sort of an all A are B, but not all B are A sort of thing people are too fucking dumb to understand..


Read this some rainy day...


I'm sure Joe Lieberman et. al. are *really* hoping to censor the internet and have a Zionist Ministry of Truth provide all information about present and past.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:33 | 2846004 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

I knew it - there is no deep-end to the gene pool.

Damn you. Damn you all to fascism.

Oh, wait...

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:41 | 2846047 falak pema
falak pema's picture

are u waiting for Romulus your nemesis?

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:39 | 2846027 waterwitch
waterwitch's picture

"And where did Iran supposedly get those weapons?"

Maybe Iraq gave them their WMDs. That's why the investigators couldn't find them.



Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:39 | 2846031 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

71% was from a Feb. 2010 poll.  I understand the general point of the post but you need a more timely source of info.  2 1/2 years is a lifetime on polling data and that is simply too stale. 

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:49 | 2846083 JR
JR's picture

CNN Poll: Americans against Iran war | 2/15/2012

Washington (CNN) - A majority of Americans don't want the U.S. to take military action to force Iran to shut down its nuclear program, according to a new national survey.

A CNN/ORC International poll released Wednesday indicates that only 17% of the public wants the U.S. to use force, with 60% saying diplomatic or economic action against Iran is the right response, and 22% saying no action should be taken at this time.



Mon, 10/01/2012 - 16:26 | 2846403 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Stupids grow exponentially. This figure must be around 99% now

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:39 | 2846033 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture


If Iran had nukes we would be sending them aid like Pakistan and sometimes N.Korea.

Nukes = gold, not lead.

They have an amazing ability to limit the tomfuckery an opponent will attempt to engage in.

If Iran announced they had a nuke and a medium range delivery missile, this sabre-rattling would promptly cease. Who would willing to call their bluff?

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:40 | 2846034 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

The media has been on a full court press for war with Iran for weeks now.  Programming works.  Remember Iraq's "weapons of mass destruction" repeated ad nauseum or the Iraq/al-Qaeda links neither true but repeated enough in the MSM to get away with an invasion.

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:41 | 2846038 falak pema
falak pema's picture

those whom the Gods wish to destroy... 

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 14:51 | 2846093 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

they first make fat with fiat...

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