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Guest Post: The 71%
Submitted by John Aziz of Azizonomics blog,
According to a recent CNN poll, 60% of Americans want go to war with Iran to prevent them from getting nuclear weapons.
This in spite of the fact that the US intelligence community is fairy unanimous that Iran is not even currently pursuing nuclear weapons. According to Micah Zenko:
First, as Director of National Intelligence James Clapper has repeatedly reaffirmed since late January, “we don’t believe they’ve actually made the decision to go ahead with a nuclear weapon.” Just yesterday, James Risen reported in the New York Times that the IC continues to believe (based on an assessment first made in November 2007) that Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei halted his country’s nuclear weapons activities in 2003.
This might be hard for many to grasp, since polling has found the American people disagree with the collective judgment of the 210,000 civilian and military employees and 30,000 private contractors comprising the IC. A recent poll found that 84 percent of Americans think Iran is developing nuclear weapons, while another from February 2010 concluded that 71 percent of Americans believe that Iran currently has nuclear weapons.
So 60% of Americans believe Iran should be attacked to prevent nuclear proliferation. Simultaneously 71% of Americans — in total contradiction to the evidence recognised by both the CIA and Mossad that Iran is not currently even developing a nuclear weapon — believe that Iran currently has nuclear weapons. There is almost certainly a high degree of overlap — and that’s some severe cognitive dissonance. Where are such ideas coming from?
There are some voices in the wilderness that are expressing the view that Iran already has a nuclear weapon to anyone who will listen.
According to Reza Kahlili, who claims to be a former CIA spy who infiltrated the Iranian Revolutionary Guard:
The pressure the United States and the West is bringing to bear on Iran to keep it from acquiring nuclear weapons is all for naught. Not only does the Islamic Republic already have nuclear weapons from the old Soviet Union, but it has enough enriched uranium for more. What’s worse, it has a delivery system.
And where did Iran supposedly get those weapons?
In the early 1990s, the CIA asked me to find an Iranian scientist who would testify that Iran had the bomb. The CIA had learned that Iranian intelligence agents were visiting nuclear installations throughout the former Soviet Union, with particular interest in Kazakhstan.
Meanwhile, Paul Muenstermann, then vice president of the German Federal Intelligence Service, said Iran had received two of the three nuclear warheads and medium-range nuclear delivery systems from Kazakhstan. It also was reported that Iran had purchased four 152 mm nuclear shells from the former Soviet Union, which were reportedly stolen and sold by former Red Army officers.
To make matters worse, several years later, Russian officials stated that when comparing documents in transferring nuclear weapons from Ukraine to Russia, there was a discrepancy of 250 nuclear weapons.
Lt. Col. Tony Shaffer, an experienced intelligence officer and recipient of a Bronze Star, told me that his sources say Iran has two workable nuclear warheads
Unlike the 71%, I’m not really convinced by this — if anything, it could be Iranian disinformation to try and avoid an American or Israeli attack. More importantly, the US and Israeli intelligence community at large don’t buy it. If they had any real evidence that Iran had a bomb today, Netanyahu would have been presenting it at the UN instead of drawing red lines on Wile E. Coyote bomb diagrams.
But if it were true, it would illustrate an extremely important point — that Iran with a nuclear weapon has not tried to obliterate Israel or the United States.
And if America were to attack Iran to prevent Iran from gaining a nuclear weapon, and Iran already has a nuclear weapon, the consequence could be thousands or millions of death — an attack on Iran would be even more dangerous and misadventurous for both the West and Israel than it already seems.
That makes the fact that a majority of Americans — as well as a disturbing number of hawkish policy analysts and talking heads like Reza Kahlili — agree that Iran already has a nuclear weapon, and that Iran should be attacked even more mind-boggling. To conclude (based on rumours and hear’say) that Iran already has a nuclear weapon, and simultaneously to encourage an attack on them is the height of foolishness.
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Only way the current warmongering in America stops is when enough sons/daughters come home in boxes and/or horribly maimed or there is a direct VAT/increased taxes used to fund direct wartime expenditures. Until that happens (and neither party is advocating policy that would push those outcomes), the US will remain the No. 1 global warmonger.
Why do you think taxes are so convoluted except to keep people from knowing how much they are paying for war and......... Hell most people can't figure out their water bill.
This also makes sense, considering 60% of Americans are a lot of fucking morons.
So, when we go to war with Iran (and we will), are all the Jews who will be telling me it is needed going to take a bus to Fort Dix for Basic Training?
Or are they gonna just tell the young black, latino, and poor-to-middle class white kids to do it for them, instead?
It's a CNN poll. We already know from George Washinton's 3 Time Emmy Award Winning CNN Journalist: Mainstream Media Takes Money from FOREIGN Dictators to Run Flattering Propaganda which side CNN is on.
Sounds like the Military Idustrial Lobbyist got to them(CNN).
Same reason any citizens support their empire's wars: they believe it'll be a cake-walk, it won't cost much or do too much harm to the good guys, the enemy is evil and must be destroyed, WE'RE number one. Just like the politicians who concoct the war propaganda, the people are very removed from the reality of their wars - imperial wars always take place elsewhere (until the empire collapses and is looted and pillaged and razed to the ground) - so the consequences are very few for the average person.
Look at the Iraq war. What did Americans have to live with while tens of thousands of Iraqis were dying? ... Higher gas prices. Of course once the war is underway, it's too late, the pro-war camp has committed itself publicly to its position and personally to its ideology, war supporters have invested a part of their identities with the nation and the war effort, hardships that were not supposed to happen must be endured on principle, speaking against the war is speaking against the nation and is taken as a personal attack by war supporters.
The poll is irrelevant, you must accept the fact that like every war before it, a vast number of your fellow citizens will hop on the jingoist bandwagon and only return to their senses years later - if ever. Name one war in American (post-colonial) history that did not enjoy widespread support for much of its duration. To this day you could not search for 10 minutes without finding at least one person who believes the Korean and Vietnam wars were a good idea.
Oh and remind me again how many of our military servicemen were drafted or conscripted under duress? ZERO, ZIP, NADA, NIHIL, NONE.
edit: One more thing: ask the average dumbfuck Amurrikan to imagine the roles reversed, World Policeman Iran and its buddy Israel - between them well over 8,000 nuclear weapons and the capacity to produce more on demand - were threatening America, had surrounded the nation on all sides, had recently conquered Mexico and were actively involved in a prolonged war in Canada, were funding your chief regional enemy, and had stationed off your shores 3 carrier battlegroups, and had cut off your financial system and attempted to ban your #1 export. You will get 1 or 2 reactions: Total rhetorical shutdown or righteous moral indigation based on the hilarious premise that America is inherently Good and Iran inherently Bad. Bottom line: logic does not dwell here.
Good post. All very true. There's something primal about the word "war" that launches people into a mindless support authority and rally the flag mode. And it's not just military wars. The vast majority of Americans soundly support the meaningless and manipulative "war on drugs", "war on terror" and "war on crime".
The only "war" they don't really support is the old Democratic idea of the "war on poverty". But in that case the enemy is us. So it's a hard one for the priviledged and the wanna-be-priviledged to get behind.
The stupidity of the American public knows no bounds. You'd think they would have learned their lesson after all the false war drums that were pounded about preventing Iraq from getting nuclear weapons.
But then again I'm sure that at least 60% of the German public were in favor of going to war with Poland to prevent them from invading the Fatherland. And 80% of the Chinese people would happily go to war with Japan over a few rocks in the ocean. So the stupidity of the public may in fact be pretty much of a constant.
That's why war should be privatized. Many might be "for" a war, but few would pay for it.
Using Letters of Marque and Reprisal is one means to do this.
With gas at $7,- that percentage should rise to, let's say, THE 99%?
Benjamin Bibi Netanyahu, Super Genius. Yes, I like the way that rollls out.
Let them get the Nukes, they are close, there is no peaceful or legimate non-milirary use for what they are doing, contrary to what the idiot in the article says. They will set one off in NYC, and one in Telaviv, the world would be a better place, in return Israel would glass them, Mecca and a few other places as well .
O in his second term would apologize, and say it was due to the movie about the prophet...........
Who took this poll? Wall Street banksters? Who was asked? The Christian Right?
No way could 60% of our populace (across the board) support another war.
Who was asked? 'American' middle class.
They are the king class in 'american' societies and determine the direction of their country.
'American' middle class thrives off wars.
Who has shat? Chinese Shitizenism ass.
They are the king ass in Chinese Shitizenism societies and determine the defecation of their country.
Chinese Shitizenism ass thrives off roadside squatting.
Ah, ah, and with that river of suds yesterday cleaning up all in its path, many more unobstructed roadsides are available for Chinese citizenism excremeditation.
Roadside-crapping Chinese Shitizenism is all about sharting the poor and extorting the weak bowels.
Having publicly shat, Chinese Shitizens are unable to self-indict, as being asked to raise their (wiping) hands to the question "Hu just shat?" would self-incriminate.
But in Chinese Shitizenism, the poop is all, so ....
Just use your hands to wipe.. ay ay ay
Don't use no toilet paper
Just use your hands to wipe.. ay ay ay
Cause I'm a paper-saver
-Rihanna
.
Much sharting and extorting of weak bowels will be the Chinese Citizenism citizen's holiday dilemma. In the post earlier today regarding the holiday traffic jams in the AnAnonymous republic, the accompanying photo shows no clear roadside. This is the dilemma which will lead to a hard landing.
If they would have asked would you like to kill anyone for anything they would have received nearly 100%. Fuck you Bernanke.
You said it was a CNN poll. They are lying. Here is the website of one of their reporters that just quit because CNN is a propaganda arm of the banksters. So the poll and the article on it doesn't mean much other than banksters suck.
Amber Lyon
Actually it's worse than that. The Gallop poll is from February 2012, one of the CNN polls is from 2010, the other is from April 2012. The Reuters poll is from March 2012 as are both Washington Post polls.
The CFR blog post poll does not work either from Aziz's link or from the original article on the CFR blog.
Although why we would expect anything out of the CFR to be accurate is beyond me.
Then again what do you really expect from an Aziz post?
Booomm... Dropping the bomb...
The conspiracy theory, the elite, the psychopaths etc
You know, the usual song sung by 'americans' when they want to dilute their responsibility.
The fact is that in 'american' societies, the middle class is the king class and that 'americans' want the opportunities that go with wars.
The middle class has been mandated their servants, the upper class for them to find easy wars so the middle class, which should be called the looting class, can grow fatter off the wars.
In 'americanism', it is all about managing, not leading. Upper class is no longer leaders, they are managers, managers of the trends set by the middle class.
The middle class want war. They want wars to loot and grow fatter. Pipe dream to think that the upper class can rein in the warmongering wishes of the 'american' class.
Iran, welcome to the world, and it is an 'american' world.
Booomm... Dropping the turd...
The conspiracy theory of 'americanism', the US middle class as "king class", the monolizing of the speeching means, the blobbing-up, etc
You know, the usual song sung by AnAnnoyingMouse when he wants to dilute his OWN society's responsibility as being part of the problem.
The fact is that in AnAnonymousitizenism, insanitation and bigotry is the king class, and his so-called 'americans' are only a strawman and figment of his own twisted imagination.
AnAnonymousitizenism has mandated its servant, pure naked anti-American prejudice, for him to find easy wars against facts and logic, so his bigotry and hate, which should be called the Long March of ZeroHedge trolling, can grow fatter off his insanitation.
In AnAnonymousitizenism, it is all about managing lies and vacuous accusations with NO facts or supporting evidence, not meaning.
AnAnonymous wants war --- a war against every and all Americans. He wants this war so that his own corrupt, unsustainable and consumption-based society of China can grow fatter. Pipe dream to think that Chinese Citizenism can rein in the overconsuming wishes of the ghost-city-building class.
Insanitation, welcome to the world, and it is an AnAnonymousitizenism world.
.
Bravo! A concise, well written dissertation on the smelly curse of AnAnonymousitizenism which plagues humanity.
"an attack on Iran would be even more dangerous and misadventurous"
No. It's the decade-long occupations that are dangerous and expensive.
Toppling the Iranian government would only take the US military a few hours to accomplish.
"To conclude (based on rumours and hear’say) that Iran already has a nuclear weapon"
Why does it matter? The Iranian government is a criminal organization. Defeating bad people is a good thing.
"The military events of both World Wars have proved anew that the capitalistic countries are paramount also in armaments production. No foreign aggressor can destroy capitalist civilization if it does not destroy itself. Where capitalistic entrepreneurship is allowed to function freely, the fighting forces will always be so well equipped that the biggest armies of the backward peoples will be no match for them. There has even been great exaggeration of the danger of making the formulas for manufacturing “secret” weapons universally known. If war comes again, the searching mind of the capitalistic world will always have a head start on the peoples who merely copy and imitate clumsily. " - Human Action by Ludwig von Mises
Number of times Israel has admitted to having nuclear weapons: 0
Percent of people who believe Israel has nuclear weapons: 99
Times amount of radioactive Tritium above normal background levels detected in WTC waste: 55
>Times amount of radioactive Tritium above normal background levels detected in WTC waste
Interesting, but why does it matter?
Surely, there were no fusion reactors or fusion weapons at WTC?
There were three 150 kiloton devices located at the lowest foundation levels of WTC1,2 and 7. Only a country that produces such devices in secret could have put them there. It matters because Israel has just threatened; via the Prime minister; to blow up more American landmarks unless we bomb Iran. This is called nuclear blackmail. Of course it doesn't matter to a brain dead Doctor such as your self. You know who to hate. So spew Acula spew.
>There were three 150 kiloton devices located at the lowest foundation levels of WTC1,2 and 7
So where is the uranium, plutonium, etc. to be found?
The triggering of fusion weapons requires fission devices, correct?
What part of annihilation do you not understand? The waste products were documented by the Lawrence Livemore Laboratories in a report released in 2002. Tunga has made you aware of the treason. You are responsible for your ignorance from now on.
Herd mentality= "what ever most of the other people think, yea, thats what I think. By the way, what was the question?"
By the way, keep posting pictures of the child molestor prophet Muhammad with the bomb turban and you will have pissed off both sides of terrorist, The USof A and the Koranastans.
It's always interesting to watch the 60% turn into 24% by the time thousands are dead and trillions are spent for nothing in the end. The MIC loves you and you "patriots" deserve what you get. The problem is I also pay for your stupidity. Just like I do when the, "smartest guys in the room" get together. I'm glad I'm just a visitor to this planet because I wouldn't want to live here forever.
>thousands are dead and trillions are spent for nothing in the end
True. As usual, politics ruins whatever it touches. That's why war, or rather justice delivery services, should be profit-seeking operations. They should be quick and reparations should extracted for the benefit of voluntary investors.
A certain Mideast country now has medium range LO bombers. 5000+ kg payload. 4500 km combat radius. Think of it as a B2 lite. No escorts needed. Jammer package is on board.
US, Allies and Corporate partners have hard wired custom made espionage ICs and have hidden them in very clever places on circuit boards and places them in computers, controlers and other equipment bound for Iran. We have access to Iran' inter sanctums through this equipment.
We know much more about Iran's nuke program and most importantly their intentions then were letting on.
Kinetic war is a last resort. Economic war is already underway.
Look for more sabotage of Iranian infrastructure short term.
We are going to kick-em in the nuts until they say uncle.
If they don't... Look at my first paragraph again.
>Economic war is already underway.
I doubt that's worthwhile.
When you begin an economic war on another country, you are also warring against your own countrymen. Lots of collateral damage. No heroes or propaganda to show for it.
It's a good thing they don't have the range, with out U.S. aerial refueling assets, to do that or it would have already been done.
Bullshit. Most Americans have no interest in war. Our intelligence community absolutely has evidence of a genuine threat. And most of us are having a hard time believing the evidence.
With all the extreme positive press about Iran lately I'm starting to wonder if Russia is buying content on ZH. Seriously. This propaganda regarding Iran is nauseating.
I do not support war with Iran, but the picture is not at all like ZH has been painting it. It is also nauseating that so many people here cannot separate their dislike for war with anti-war propaganda.
They are buying their bombs from Acme now, all the fun and no one gets hurt!
Looks like you can take the raghead out of of the middle east, but you can't get his head out of his ...
Yes, you can take the raghead out of the Middle East, and then "Settle" his land. You can do that if you have 500 nuclear weapons tucked away.
What I'd like to find is a way to get Bolton, Kristol, and their ilk out of my week-end television viewing!
CNN interviewed around 1000 people and 70% of them are pro war on Iran.
This equals 70% of all Americans?? Give me a fucking break.
Media needs to show the Boss the propaganda is working. Kinda like Chinese economic reports.
I highly doubt those numbers. I don't think even 71% of world Jewry wants war with Iran. This is strictly AIPAC propaganda for Iranian American consumption. They believe that if they convince the Joe Sixpacks that the majority of their neighbors want war with Iran, then Joe will feel obliged to go along.
You can be damned sure that if 71% of Americans wanted war with Iran, it would have happened already. The U.S. gov't is ready for war, but they most likely struck a deal Zion to the effect: We'll commit our treasure and our children, but you've got to get us popular support. Thus the tireless efforts of the hasbarats' propaganda machine. Expect a movie starring Will Smith, Channing Tatum, and Michael Trevino (mexican american actor) to come out soon. They will play u.s. special operators on a mission to invade and disarm a rogue nuclear nation. I won't give the entire plot away, but America will win, the population of the rogue nation will celebrate the defeat of their nation, and the American boys will get the sweetest parade down Wall St. that you ever saw. And yes, endless poon will be thrown their way! Tea-party types on a fixed income, black gang-bangers, Hindus, Hasids, and Mexicans will be bolly-wood danciing in the street together and the world will be as one!
>if they convince the Joe Sixpacks that the majority of their neighbors want war with Iran, then Joe will feel obliged to go along.
The question is, why would you NOT want to go to war with criminals?
They are working to build nuclear weapons which would cause massive civilian casualties. Why would you not want them stopped?
Even if true, there's a shittly little country in the area with 500 nuclear warheads capabable of reaching every capitol in the world. They've fought more wars to gain territory in 60 years than Iran has in centuries. Are you an advocate of 'stopping them'?
>Are you an advocate of 'stopping them'?
Of course. Ideally, all WMD's (including our own) would be eliminated. Preferably through diplomatic means.
These weapons cause massive civilian causalties and AFAIK they aren't designed for non-murder uses (for example, excavation).
I tried to strike through "Iranian". This should read, "This is strictly AIPAC propaganda for American consumption."
The holy war between the west and Islam has been predicted. The Islamist admit it's a war. The west just hasn't caught up yet. When a few million get killed, the survivors will figure it out. Then, the real fun begins. Hold on to your ragheads.
>When a few million get killed
I thought this already happened in Iraq due to economic sanctions.
What is the "real fun" you are predicting? Operation Barbarossa caused something like 30 million deaths. The Iraq and Afgahn wars have only cost us a few thousand lives.
I think some of the perspectives and opinions presented here on the coming conflict with Iran is a bit narrow focused on just Israel/America and the desire for those two to go to war. Maybe I haven’t lurked enough but I haven’t seen anyone bring up how other Arab nations are regarding Iran, and who they’d like to throw the chips in with.
Israel isn't the only country that is concerned about Iran. And as a matter of fact, it's probably one of the least.
Saudi Arabia is by far more panicked than Israel is, and that "in a visit to Saudi Arabia’s capital, Riyadh, in early 2009, he had been told by the Saudi King Abdullah that if Iran becomes a nuclear state, Saudi Arabia will rapidly develop its own nuclear bomb. More reports had been also published as earlier as February 2007, following King Abdullah’s meeting with the then Russian President Vladimir Putin which brought similar quotes from the Saudi king. Although those reports were never officially confirmed, Ross’ remarks prove beyond any doubt that such allegations which are made by Saudi Arabia from time to time should be taken quite seriously. " http://www.payvand.com/news/12/jun/1256.html "Saudi Arabia apparently looks upon Iran from the standpoint of regional rivalries and believes that nuclearization of Iran will be a dangerous turn of events for its regional calculations and relations. “Tension in return for pressure” is perhaps a good interpretation for Saudi Arabia’s anti-Iran moves and policies. In other words, whenever Saudi Arabia comes under mounting domestic, regional and/or international pressures, it tries to escalate tension with the Islamic Republic of Iran in order to distract attention from those pressures. In this way, Riyadh also tries to come up with a framework within which it would be able to cooperate with the source of pressure (both internal and external) by claiming that it is facing an alleged foreign risk (from Iran). Another point is the fact that conflict with the Islamic Republic of Iran can boost a sense of national identity in Saudi Arabia."
More to the point "Saudi Arabia, home to a Sunni Islam majority, and Iran, which is officially a Shiite republic, have vied for regional supremacy in the years following the American-led invasion of Iraq and the subsequent ousting of Saddam Hussein. These geopolitical tensions were underscored earlier this month by the planned assassination of Saudi Arabia’s ambassador to the U.S., a plot allegedly directed by a unit of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. An eerie foreshadow to the events during the spring of 2011 in Japan, the 2009 cable conveyed Prince Turki’s fears that a nuclear meltdown could have serious consequences on the Persian Gulf, as well as on global energy markets. A major disruption to shipping lanes through the gulf could trigger a calamity in the world’s oil prices, since one-third of all oil that was shipped in tankers in 2009 passed through the Strait of Hormuz, the gulf’s ocean outlet, according to the Energy Information Administration.
The domestic danger to Saudi Arabia’s water supply was equally heavy on the prince’s mind. Saudi Arabia leads the world in the volume of water it desalinates, with more than 3.3 million cubic meters (871 million gallons) per day supplying 60 percent of the drinking water for its population, according to the Saline Water Conversion Corporation (SWCC), the kingdom’s desalinated-water producer.
The desalination complex at Jubail — which supplies 90 percent of the capital city’s drinking water — is located along the Persian Gulf. So is the Ras al-Zawr plant, which will be the kingdom’s largest, producing 1 million cubic meters per day (264 million gallons), when it is completed in 2013."
And by the way, Saudi Arabia is pretty f'in serious about this. They, like the Israelies, cannot rely on current US foreign policy actions and assurance that it will act as a buffer for the nuclear armed Iran have started to plan ahead and create plan B.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/07/26/252852/s-arabia-mulls-buying-pakistani-nukes/ A report has unveiled that Saudi officials are trying to strike “a secret deal” with Pakistan to buy nuclear weapons from the Asian country.
Citing the recent meeting between King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia and Pakistani Prime Minister Raja Pervez Ashraf in Jeddah, United Press International (UPI) said that “these events heightened speculation Riyadh is trying to strike a secret deal with Islamabad to acquire nuclear weapons.”
The meeting came as Riyadh has started sending its special forces to Pakistan for military training. "
And there is even a Plan C: Buy them from the Chinese: http://www.inquisitr.com/282628/saudi-arabia-to-purchase-nuclear-capable-missiles-from-china-video/
Military sources are reporting to Israeli intelligence website Debka that Saudi Arabia has begun its journey on the way to a nuclear weapon’s capability. The Saudi’s are currently in Beijing negotiating to purchase Chinese nuclear capable ballistic missiles.
You know who else is worried? Virtually every gulf coast nation as they are outright dependent on the safe shipping in the straights of Hormuz. Hence why they rely on the US to strategically place their 5th Fleet in the straight.
So it’s not just American/Israeli problem. It is truly the region and in a larger economical sense, the world’s problem.
It is pretty well known that despite the outward anti-Israeli and anti-Jewish stances that these Arab states take is just that, a front for their masses to consume. And in reality, they trade and rely on an Israeli military presence to maintain some sort of leveler of peace within the region. The Arab world, despite full of dictators and constant violations of basic human rights does NOT like the idea of War. It does NOT like the interruption of trade in that region. And it certainly not going to cause any major conflicts in the region, even with the so called Jews that they hate. Why should they?
Unfortunetly for them, things exploded in the Arab Spring of 2011, which kind of threw a lot of this into a major loop!
In working with a few Lebonese investors we brought up, as a talking point, Israeli-Arab politics. They all laughed and said something along the lines of “Everyone of those Presidents talks about hating the Jews, how the Jews do this and that, etc…After the speech they go to their Jew lawyers and accountants.” And although I dislike to use anecdotes as evidence, it does paint a kind of perspective that people have.
It is true that the Sunnis and Shia hate each other more than they hate Jews. But if anything is to be learned from the Arab Spring, it is that all the leaders in the Middle East (with the exception of Israel and Iran) are dictator/puppets for the Western Powers. We put 'em in; we take 'em out. By us installing fanaitical regimes in power in Egypt, Lybia and next Syria, the Middle East will mose definitly go up in flames with Muslims exeterminating each other.
So you are asserting that we are installing fanatical regimes in power in Egypt, Lybia, and then Syria, for the Muslims to kill to one another?
The intent was not for Muslims to exterminate each other, but to keep them busy fighting and bombing each other while we take their resources and sell their oil for dollars. We have to save our dollar. Lybia was becoming too stable an economy and we were losing control. A man I just talked to visiting here from Jordan told me that there is a major war coming between the Muslims and it will be a bloodbath. I didn't realize how much they hate each other.
Is "Dancing With The Stars" on tonight?
If 84% and 71% of the American Populace believes that the public statements of the US MIC with regards the WMD capabilities of some other country are BS, I THINK THAT IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, even if it is a decade late.
Also, NIE is a POLITICAL document, it is not the collective judgment of "the 210,000 civilian and military employees and 30,000 private contractors comprising the IC" The least biased and corrupted version of the NIE would be the initial classified rough draft, after that, there are punctuation marks and other errata far more esoteric than the definition of "is" that are subject to manipulation.
If you polled the entire intelligence community tried to get unanimous support of something so "basic" as the Earth is round and revolves around the Sun, you would have dissenting opinions from really bright people and at least 500 pages of caveats and footnotes.
There was no broad and overridding consensus in the intelligence community as to weather Iraq had readily deployable biological or radiological weapons before the invasion of Iraq. What makes anyone think it is any different now?
War isn't the answer, but neither is the heretofore Monkey Plan if ignoring (and thereby endorsing) the trampling of democracy and human rights by the Iranian regime, or the childish BS that the chosen boy was spouting about negotiations without preconditions while he was whoring himself to climb to political ladder.
I'm curious... which Synagogue did CNN do these polls in?
Tavistock Institute of Human Relations
oh well...
The American people will believe what the MSM tells them to believe. Lies, lies, lies, 24/7/365.
In the past couple of days we've learned here on ZH that the US Intelligence community is "fairy unanimous" and that there is an AFB in Spain named Moron that is heavily used by the US. Can it get any better?
Iran is not building a nuke
I will repect you in the morning,
and I won't... er, nevermind.
Great sources for a bullshit article. CNN, CFR and FPI (whose featured video stars Bill Kristol)... Catchy headline, though.
Just in case anyone is looking for solid argument for why Iran is not really a threat, and all the noise is just neocons doing their regular warmongering, look at this piece written by a nuclear physicist from FAS.org:
http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2012/0525/By-not-lifting-san...
Comparing this opinion piece with another from csmonitor.com arguing for "5 reasons to go to war with Iran" is revealing. The latter pro-war piece contains only FUD; no facts, historical context, or expert findings.
The "Iran will have a nuke soon" propaganda started in 1983, in Isreal.
Get those 60% to point out iran on a map.
Going to war with Australia bitchez.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q566ys0sqVQ
There is another possibility. Iran has already developed nukes internally. Its a huge and reasonably technologically advanced country. Don't tell me they couldn't have hidden some centrifuges to do the last step up to bomb grade fuel.
Its obvious they done much of the other bomb research already. There may well be an untested bomb or two already assembled. Why untested? Your not going to tip your hand when you've got only one bomb. Your going to have enough for a credible deterrant and then you will test.
Personally I'd rather see sanctions work rather than any military option. However any one who thinks Iran is not pursuing nukes is delusional. The country sits on plenty of oil and natural gas, nukes are not cheap especially when your fuel cycle involves centrifuges inside a mountain. Lets get real, this is not about electric power.
So how does this putative "60%" correlate with the number of people actually in or closely related to someone in the military. You know, anyone who is risking blood, not just faux fiat.
Oh wait, never mind. Like every fucking poll that says "X percentage of Americans believe Y", it takes a random yet tiny sample and tries make it sound like it applies everywhere, because of SCIENCE! (sure, it's only social science, but it's still SCIENCE!*). In this case, apparently important conclusions and, even worse, far-ranging decisions can be based on the responses of 1000 yahoos, in a nation 310+ MILLION, about the state of the world containing some 7+ BILLION.
*By the way something, I'm no beady-eyed magical-sky-fairy creationist, but I am virulent opposed to those make science into a secular religion. Science is just a way (a anthrocentric way) to describe reality. It's not reality itself. That delusion is far too common for anyone's good (especially among economists).
i wouldnt vote for a cave man much less go to war with them
.
hell thy might just blow THEMSELVES up fucking retards
Iran will have peace and brotherhood with the rest of the world when Iran decides it no longer needs to make hate and terror a part of it's core beliefs and official foreign policy. The rest of the world is deeply flawed, but it is trying to survive and advance, Iran is just a waste of rain.
Everyone in the room has a gun, except Jim.
Jim - "Hey, those are pretty cool. Where can I get one?"
Uncle Sam - "Umm, you cant have one."
Jim - "Whaa? Everyone else has one!"
Uncle Sam - "Yeah, but you cant be trusted with one....... you're nuts."
Jim - "Nuts? ME?? Wait, aren't you the one that shot someone, like 50 yrs ago?"
Uncle Sam - "Well......... yeah. Whats that got to do with it?"
DERP!
Well, that worked like a charm. It's amazing how Neo-Cons can hit the idiot nerve.
The FPI is a Neo-Con shithouse. You know. Bill Crystal and his buddies who brought you WMDs in Iraq, and the Iraq invasion. "Don't worry it's only going to take 8 months and we're out. Iraq's oil reserves will be back on-line and funding all of the efforts."
Why the fuck anybody would listen to the FPI is beyond me. They just get people to talk about nuclear weapons and Iran. It's the exact same thing as last time. There are none. And retardation sets in on Boards in the US.
CNN has retardation, too.
Look at the 2 questions on Iran/Nukes. Notice that the former question is "what do you want to do about Iran's nukes".
THEN the interviewer asks the interviewed "Do you think Iran has a nuke program.
The previous question already provided the answer to latter question.
If you answered the former question at all, of course you're going to say yes to the program.
No single article at ZH has ever had such a pile of fantasy bullshit in it..
Neo-Cons and fucked up surveys. Like bread and butter.
Put your feces down and stop playing with it. It's time to leave the cave.
Stop the war-mongering nuclear menace.
Israel!