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Marc Faber & Jim Rogers On Our "Clueless, Ignorant, Dangerous" Leaders

Tyler Durden's picture


While the discussions between these two legends varied from Phat Phong nightlife to Dow 30,000, and from China bullishness to AAPL bearishness, it was the conversation about the actions of Bernanke, and more importantly our political leaders that summed up perfectly the dreadful reality in which we find ourselves. The punchline: "It is very dangerous to have ignorant people believing that they know something."

Rogers is bullish China long-term but buying Chinese stocks only selectively...

Faber sees under-the-surface weakness in US equities and while central banks could print us to Dow 30,000; gold and other commodities will be astronomical by then...

Faber is bearish AAPL, believes its a bubble - but too dangerous to short...

Both are uber-bearish central-bankers and politicians...

Marc Faber: "Both candidates are clueless and completely artificial..."


Jimmy Rogers: "It's worse than clueless, because they think they know what they're doing.. and so they are dangerous! If they were just clueless and looked out the window, we wouldn't have a problem, but they think they have the solution - but their solutions are what's making the situation worse..."


Marc Faber: "That is precisely the point. It is very dangerous to have ignorant people believing that they know something!"

Summed up perfectly, we believe.


Must watch - especially to hear the CNBC anchor squirming...


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Thu, 10/04/2012 - 18:15 | 2857553 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

"It is very dangerous to have ignorant people believing that they know everything."

Fixed that for ya.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 18:18 | 2857562 no taste
no taste's picture

How stupid are people who put Obama 2012 bumper stickers on their cars.  Why not go with the 2008 hopey, changey guy?

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 18:24 | 2857586 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

"It is very dangerous to have ignorant people believing that they know something."

Good statement to apply to most of the human race. Beginning with religion then science...

But the more dangerous people are those who know better but take advantage of people's ignorance - hello Obama & Romney. 

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 18:30 | 2857602 Mark Carney
Mark Carney's picture

LOL could not stop lauging listening to these two awesomeness destroy all presidential credibility and seeing these libtards in the background sweating, ADD'ing and pissing their pants...too good.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 18:34 | 2857615 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

I guess I could laugh too, if I had a couple billion or so and was comfortably ensconced in parts of the world that might muddle through best becuase they had not bought into the fantasy that more debt is a cure for too much debt.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 19:13 | 2857748 Thomas
Thomas's picture

I love their faint praise.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 20:11 | 2857889 economics9698
Thu, 10/04/2012 - 21:26 | 2858034 markmotive
markmotive's picture

Vs? I'm willing to bet that Marc and Jim agree on most points. Both have an Austrian point of view.

Marc Faber: The Great Depression all over again

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 21:28 | 2858041 Manthong
Manthong's picture

“It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong.”

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 21:51 | 2858086 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

I learned that at a young age. The Sheeple give criminals power, and the people smart enough to see through the BS suffer.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 21:53 | 2858090 redpill
redpill's picture

I'd love to buy these two a few good bottles of wine and turn into a sponge for a couple hours while they chat.  I'd even pay for it in nickels if Kyle Bass would show up.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:04 | 2858116 ratso
ratso's picture

Right - Jim Rogers and Marc Farber - you can't get more clueless than that.  

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:41 | 2858180 jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

Gotta agree. Yeah sure, smart guys no doubt, but I wouldn't give them any more credit than the candidates.   Ok , both are smarter than Obama, but Faber made one good call and he's been sayin' what everyone else has been saying since- (fiat crash etc.  - same as most zero hedge posts) and Rogers?   Good call on China two years ago.  Last I heard they're crashin harder than anyone else;   If they were ever on top at all!     Keep that china bull runnin' Jim.  Remember, the bigger they are, the harder they fall!  Ahem... jim...

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:05 | 2858228 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Marc Faber "I go to lower class discos"



Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:10 | 2858234 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Marc Faber "The only one that had any the convention....was Client Eastwood. He is the only one who has an idea about the real world."

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:11 | 2858236 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Marc Faber "It is very dangerous to have ignorant people believing that they know something"

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:15 | 2858247 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

It doesn't really matter whether you are ignorant, clueless, or dangerous to society....when you have the power.


What AMerica needs is division of power structures.

More population, more concentration of power at the top....this has to be offset otherwise you will have Yankees buying the best talent just to sit out the game and not play for other teams which eventually turns into a circus rather than competitive sport of baseball.


Wall st. has turned markets into a gambling hall  for the rich.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:19 | 2858348 Catalonian Capi...
Catalonian Capitalist's picture

The people who make wars, the people who reduce their fellows to slavery, the people who kill and torture and tell lies in the name of their sacred causes, the really evil people in a word—these are never the publicans and the sinners. No, they're the virtuous, respectable men, who have the finest feelings, the best brains, the noblest ideals. -Aldous Huxley

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 06:58 | 2858654 MassDecep
MassDecep's picture

Reality = TPTB are absolutely NOT Clueless! These psychopaths know exactly what they are doing, and being in line with their psychopathic traits, are hell bent for the destruction of everyone's life, liberty and the pursuit of an IPAD.

Buy silver, gold, food, ammo, solar cells.    

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:07 | 2858340 trembo slice
trembo slice's picture

that'd be awesome, but I'm hoping they appreciate some good whiskey.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:18 | 2858346 vamoose1
vamoose1's picture

kyle  would   keep  them   for  copper   content   coasters and   suggest   using  your  card   but    in  the  meantime  im   going   clubbing   with   marc   the   dirtier  the   better   and   he  knows  this   field   ....   that  was   a   little   bit  of  history....    neither  of   them  could  be   elected   dogcatcher   which,    come  to  think  of  it  is   kinda  the  point

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 21:55 | 2858095 SamuelMaverick
SamuelMaverick's picture

That is soooo true bobbyrib.. Well said

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:20 | 2858339 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

No it isn't.

It should be: unscrupulous wealthy criminals bamboozle power from the sheeple, and those smart enough to see through it but retaining their decency become sheepdogs while the rest of the callous sociopaths sit back to enjoy the show as they jeer at the sheepdogs and pathetically dream of becoming wealthy unscrupulous criminals who can bamboozle power from the sheeple like the empty bags of wasted skin they idolize and are.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 02:52 | 2858494 natty light
natty light's picture

Waiting for your avatar to blink...

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 08:05 | 2858724 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

I never said it was fair for people smart enough to see through the BS to suffer, that is just the way the world works. The average sheep just wants to get through life and have a good work/life balance. If everyone wanted to be part of the elite we would have tons more political science majors and lawyers. People flocked to jobs on Wall St, because they paid more and the productive side of the economy died.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:18 | 2858145 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

That would implicate the "smart enough," would it not?

And I agree.

But then you must morph the argument towards the fundamental flaw -- the one where everyone watches out for his own ass.

The one where nobody's minding the store.

There are times when "oops" becomes a bit more profound.
We self-absorbed creatures just hit another one...

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:34 | 2858362 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

The mental abilities that drive the criminals in power - alpha-males - to rule over the masses are evolutionary adaptations that promote their survival.

Earlier humans, in a tribe of 100-150, derived a benefit from the coattail effect of the superior physical, or sometimes mental, abilities of the alpha-male. Like when a skilled warrior would lead lesser males in battle to steal women and other resources.

The problem we have today is that the alpha-males are hardly needed for survival or reproductive success of the people. In fact, they are now an outright detriment to the vast majority. Plainly, they are no longer needed.

Unfortunately, the masses are still wired to obey their leaders, even when it may cause them great harm. There is also a decided lack of time to evolve a different, less subservient, attitude towards our failed, useless leaders.


"An organism is a collection of problem solving devices - adaptations - that were shaped by natural selection over evolutionary time to promote, in some specific way, the survival of the genes that directed their construction."  Symons 2005


Fri, 10/05/2012 - 11:02 | 2859716 Thisson
Thisson's picture

I think you're overlooking the fact that they are still quite successful at stealing resources. 

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 12:59 | 2860096 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Not at all.

They are successful at stealing resources because the majority of people still have brains wired to exist in an alpha-male social hierarchy and are incapable of thinking outside the box. Man's ability to change nature has outstripped nature's ability to change man.

Most people are as capable of divesting themselves of the alpha-male social hierarchy of government as ants are of divesting themselves of the ant colony.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 21:44 | 2858071 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

I assume regarding their specific investments, as was discussed in the video.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 01:10 | 2858411 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

you can't eat infinity

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 01:31 | 2858431 putaipan
putaipan's picture

yes you can. but you get the hella man-o-nash shits when your done.


i'd really rather hear sam keen/dr.hudson/and prosicutorblack discuss how we get the fuck outta here.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 02:55 | 2858497 natty light
natty light's picture

Madness money theory

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 18:46 | 2857653 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I think you mean their handlers. Candidates are vetted to insure ignorance (as well as protected from reality), because without ignorance there is no avenue for plausible deniability, but instead would be held responsible for the damage they do.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:27 | 2858165 upWising
upWising's picture

The Times They Are a-Changin'   (Bob Dylan)

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 19:03 | 2857704 123dobryden
123dobryden's picture

Can you imagine any of them two on a journey to throw The ring to Mount rocky Doom ?

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 18:38 | 2857630 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

Jim is correct about Real Estate if the QE pump levitates DOW to 20k. The RE stock under 1M would tank, even with investors increasing their purchases of bargains...

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 18:48 | 2857662 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

RE is dead regardless. The entire banking model of lending for profit is being replaced by politcal lending by various gov. agencies.


Thu, 10/04/2012 - 19:11 | 2857740 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

every americam should be able to get 1 loan from the govt. at 0% interest. Not from a bank. Not from the Fed, from the government.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 19:30 | 2857802 Whiner
Whiner's picture

Tally-HO, my good man! But I am sorry. That citizen's loan money already got spent on JPM's dividend and Jamie's bonus. Oh, plus recap funds and play money.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:22 | 2858352 Better_late_tha...
Better_late_than_never's picture

And where exactly is the government going to get this money to loan you?

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 01:31 | 2858430 brettd
brettd's picture

One loan in a lifetime?

Or one per car/house/degree/addition?

If you don't pay back the loan, can the "govt" foreclose?


Thu, 10/04/2012 - 19:05 | 2857712 dexter bland
dexter bland's picture

How about "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"?

In any case they are no where near as dangerous as the Fed whose power to redistribute wealth is unrestrained by having to answer to congress, the President, or the electorate.



Thu, 10/04/2012 - 19:57 | 2857858 DosZap
DosZap's picture

How about "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"?

In any case they are no where near as dangerous as the Fed whose power to redistribute wealth is unrestrained by having to answer to congress, the President, or the electorate.



This could be easily remedied,if Congress had a lot more real people, and decided to take over the role of the Fed.

Just get a POTUS to sign off on it, and the Senate, and House to go along.

Viola', the Feds Dead.

Repeal the Act of 1913...............put the power back in the hands of the people whose job it was to BE all along.

A private cartel of corporate  bankers, should not control ANY soverigns money supply.

At least, I can see some brawls on passing Bennu Bux to anyone in the world that needs a bail out.


Excuse me, I just landed in Denver, and the 5000' alt change has me thinking I know something............LOL

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:00 | 2858101 elementary
elementary's picture

Both candidates are two heads of the same beast. I don't think of them as ignorant as opposed to who is the better actor. The goal is and has been for hundreds of years: world domination, a powerful, royal elite, billions enslaved and sacrifieced at will. Congress is no longer valid, only ceremonial - somewhat of a testing ground for those who will serve the cabal on this side of the world order. You don't get that far along in politics without relinquishing your soul for the cause.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:49 | 2858390 tickhound
tickhound's picture

You don't get that far along in politics without relinquishing your soul for the cause.

I hear you, and I agree with you... But its the whole "cause" thing that we should be stumbling on. 

Where I sit, and what I see... We're all chasing the same skim.  These 'candidates' happen to be in a position to preserve it.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:31 | 2857985 Alexandre Stavisky
Alexandre Stavisky's picture

Having just learned the board and movement of few pieces, one knows his own ignorance.  Strength and wisdom are knowing the absolute Grand Chess master and architect...and shadowing his moves and listening to the commands.  None has perfect foresight.  Wars, acts of God, arbitrary (seemingly) occurrences make masters slaves and vice versa.

Your riches taught me poverty,
 Myself a millionaire
 In little wealths, as youths do boast,
 Till, broad as Buenos Ayre,
 You drifted your dominions
 A different Peru,
 And I esteemed all poverty
 For life's estate, with you.

 Of mines, I little know, myself, But just the names of gems,
 The colors of the commonest,
 And scarce of diadems
 So much that, did I meet the queen
 Her glory I should know;
 But this must be a different wealth,
 To miss it, beggars so.

 I'm sure 't is India, all day,
 To those who look on you
 Without a stint, without a blame,
 Might I but be the Jew!
 I'm sure it is Golconda
 Beyond my power to deem,
 To have a smile for mine, each day,
 How better than a gem!

 At least, it solaces to know
 That there exists a gold
 Although I prove it just in time
 Its distance to behold;
 Its far, far treasure to surmise
 And estimate the pearl
 That slipped my simple fingers through
 While just a lad at school!

Numbing Bangkok frivolity,
rotting lepers in the road,
unseeing dancers without quality,
buying--selling souls for gold.

Wealth to convey pinched minds and grubby bodies over four score years.
Is that all there is?

We play at paste
 Till qualified for pearl;
 Then drop the paste
 And deem ourselves the fool.

 The shapes, though, were similar
 And our new hands
 Learned gem-tactics,
 Practicing sands.

I prefer happy fool to wise and compromised gentlemen of the darkest cloth.
Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:00 | 2858334 AlphaWolfe
AlphaWolfe's picture

I <3 ZH --- Because of the like minded peps

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:26 | 2858268 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

I have to disagree.

Faber and Rogers are running interference for a criminal who is systematically robbing society's wealth and transferring it to the the private interests that employ him.

He's not dumb, he's doing an incredibly good job of ripping off society for trillions.

Me thinks Faber and Rogers need to read a little Art of War.

“Pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance.“
~Sun Tzu

No, if Bernanke was stupid, his bosses wouldn't be getting record bonuses of 1% of GDP even after criminally blowing the world's largest credit bubble and blowing the top off the economy and saturating society with unpayable debt.

Where is Faber and Rogers when it comes to pointing out the Fed criminally broke Section 2A of the Federal Reserve Act?

0-25 years, that's where.  Now, maybe they don't even know what Section 2A says...  but that would make them ignorant of an incredibly important regulation.

This is financial warfare, Bernanke knows EXACTLY what he's doing - and that bankrupting the republic in order to hand it over to a world government financed and controlled by the people who hired him...  the Money Power, the operators of Debt Money Tyranny...

Debt Money Tyranny money flow chart...

Wake up America - this is a crime scene!

It's like some guy walks in your home, steals your wallet and Faber and Rogers show up and say the guy stole your wallet because he doesn't know anything.


Fri, 10/05/2012 - 11:06 | 2858298 Alexandre Stavisky
Alexandre Stavisky's picture


Fri, 10/05/2012 - 11:10 | 2859731 Thisson
Thisson's picture

Part of the problem is that there is no criminal violation for a breach of section 2A.  It's not a criminal statute, and there is no penalty in the statute for violating it.  It's a toothless law (and deliberately so).  The Fed's purchases of Maiden Lane Assets, and now MBS, are also unlawful.  But again, there is no legal remedy.

Sun, 10/14/2012 - 18:04 | 2888697 GOLDTRADERRR

"It is very frustrating to have ignorant people posting on Zerohedge threads"

Fixed that for ya.

Nuttin' personal implied.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 18:15 | 2857556 Mongo
Mongo's picture

Epic seeing those two together...

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 18:19 | 2857567 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

They are sitting on their mounds of precious metals laughing their asses off.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 18:32 | 2857609 kito
kito's picture

i dont see either of them telling us to enter our bunkers yet..................maybe next year, or the year after, or the year fatigued...................

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 18:46 | 2857655 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

You seem to be looking for an ending to this mess. It's going to be years and years of financial repression. You and I will be lucky to barely maintain our standard of living. I don't think we will be so lucky as to get some big thing that ends this so we can start over. It's just gonna suck.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 18:51 | 2857672 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Indeed. When faced with a Mad Max world, most will choose a slow form of suicide as it is better known.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 19:12 | 2857746 kito
kito's picture just told me russia 1990s ending in default :) had my hopes up for a great reset of this mess............and now i have to toil under totalitarian monetary policy for years and years???.....i cant take this anymore.....

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 19:34 | 2857810 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

They still ain't doing so great in Russia today. Here is my answer to your question on the other post on how low the dollar can fall...what are your thoughts?

Well here I am prone to listen to Schiff. He sees the dxy going to 20. The DXY is largely measured against the euro so that may in fact make the dollar look good. Against the Remnimbi I just don't know. I also struggle with the aspect that with employment sucking so bad and wages so low....that may actually make this more stagflationary than hyperinflationary. So gas may cost $7 a gallon instead of the hyperinflationary $75 a gallon but it may as well be $75 a gallon to 90% of most of us. So tough to say.

I also have this weird feeling that if Romney wins he pulls a Kito and cans Bernanke, stops the fed from buying treasuries, crashes the bond market and we get hit with massive austerity....hence saving the dollar. Thats how these private equity guys roll sometimes.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 19:52 | 2857852 kito
kito's picture

i just cut and pasted this answer from the other response i gave from your post that you cut and pasted:


thats a bold call fonz. it would take biiiiiiig cajones by romney. im not sure the masters of the universe will allow that kind of willful behavior.......and i dont think that could even be contemplated until romneys second term......... but pm buyers beware, fonz sees a romney victory bearish for pms....................................


actually, i thought schiff was a currency collapse guy, and then i hear him say that it wont get that bad, that the fed will reign in the dollar printing....kinda threw me for a loop...............

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 20:08 | 2857875 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

The realist in me says Romney or Obama both print us to hell. With Romney at least I would get the enjoyment of watching the baby boomers scratch their heads and wonder aloud "what the hell happened, this guy was supposed to make it all better??"

I know exactly what you mean about Schiff. He originally was screaming hyperinflation. Then he somehow backed off that and went for bigtime inflation but somehow we make the right choice before we go over the edge....I wonder about that too...

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:49 | 2858195 kito
kito's picture

in fact i dont really see anybody calling for the we are missing something..perhaps we need to adjust our lens a bit.........

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:55 | 2858209 akak
akak's picture

Perhaps more of them are coming to the conclusion that the (financial and monetary) world will not end with a bang, but with a whimper.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:37 | 2858367 tickhound
tickhound's picture

I'll call for the inevitable end to the current monetary "system" now.  I offer no other reason than the most obvious... conflict between technology and labor. 

Labor will be the lost ingredient in the current, so called, financial equations.

Which, of course, would end all the current false dichotomies and everything else so many of you dildos religiously cling to...

By dildo I wasn't referring to you, kito.  We all know you like to both pitch and catch.




Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:55 | 2858394 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture



Kito, you crack me up. Always feel that your posts happen to magically turn on my TV to CNBS cable channel for new breaking news. LOL 

Care to explain to your lemming followers? 

After your finished cleaning up your mess, pass along the October 1, 2012 BIS report. Keep telling the planation dependents, we’ll give you free franks & beans up until we modify the Dodd-Frank fuck up!

Implementation of capital standards: assessment reports published by Basel Committee- 1 October 2012 

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 21:46 | 2858076 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture



Can I cut and paste what you cut and paste from his cut and paste so someone else can cut and paste what I cut and paste from your cut and paste…


Damn, I need to go to my Zero Hedge Anonymous and get off this shit ……

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 21:51 | 2858085 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

yeah I started it, sorry.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:02 | 2858109 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture



No apologies needed at Zero Hedge, speak your mind ….

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:32 | 2858359 vamoose1
vamoose1's picture

not  me   schiff   simply  pimps   for   customers    look  at  the   family  history    look   hard  at   the  face,,, many  of  them  tell  their   stories,, 

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 19:37 | 2857751 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

It will be like the 1970s.  People have advanced from snorting coke to bath salts and dubstep has replaced disco.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 19:52 | 2857851 malikai
malikai's picture

I'd rather have nuclear war than dubstep.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 21:14 | 2858023 chump666
chump666's picture

haha very good.


Thu, 10/04/2012 - 21:26 | 2858039 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

something big that ends it

I understand the sentiment, but realize that nothing severe has happened yet.  A long time ago, Gonzalo Lira called out 2013 as the point where significant disprutions start to appear.


Fri, 10/05/2012 - 07:01 | 2858655 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

John williams @shadowstats says 2014.Has been bringing his date foward at each

annual revision.

This will not drag out like previous collapses.It no longer takes months to communicate

across far flung empires.This collapse will happen over a scant few years,not decades

of progression.


Thu, 10/04/2012 - 18:52 | 2857674 BlackholeDivestment
Thu, 10/04/2012 - 18:21 | 2857578 Marcuz Aurelius
Marcuz Aurelius's picture

Epic battle indeed, they were like a duet at the end.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 18:22 | 2857579 theXman
theXman's picture

The young lady who hosted the show was quite ignorant herself -- yesterday I heard her saying that gas price above $4 was an emergency and warranted release of SPR. That's enough for me. Maybe she should go back to community college and retake econ 101.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 18:37 | 2857626 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Nah, you might want to take comparative sociology again ... How are you going to get a quality lap dance if your stripper can't afford the 60 mile commute in her '85 LeBaron?

$4 per gallon gas is un-American and therefore simply wrong.  


Thu, 10/04/2012 - 18:39 | 2857633 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

For those who slept through econ 101- it would hell of a lot quicker (and cheaper) to import the existing gasoline output of refineries in neighboring states, then waiting for crude oil to be delivered from the SPR to shunted refineries in peoples republic and then having to wait for those very refineries to come back online...

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 21:52 | 2858087 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

They don't teach Econ 101 anymore.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:20 | 2858349 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

She could take over for the woman 'journalist' that told her poor viewers that "Gold isn't backed by anything"

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:34 | 2858363 vamoose1
vamoose1's picture

adequate  hoots  though   ,   and  actually  it   was   home  ec

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 18:26 | 2857590 88888
88888's picture

She is kinda cute..


Thu, 10/04/2012 - 18:33 | 2857611 DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

Japan needs to implode before the Fed realizes ZIRP & QEternity, in the long run, leads to catastrophe.  Japan has been in multiple lost decades.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 18:37 | 2857624 Annotation
Annotation's picture

I guess Elvis is Faber and Sinatra is Rogers.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 18:38 | 2857631 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Then that makes Tim Geithner Donovan.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 18:58 | 2857688 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I was thinking more like Tiny Tim.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 19:10 | 2857706 BlackholeDivestment
BlackholeDivestment's picture

...that makes Chairsatan GG Allin eating his own crap on stage. 

If you recall he ended up just like a Suicide Vampire Squid, he killed himself. Musta swallowed gold and then tried to eat it. Lol.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 18:43 | 2857644 The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

That was a lot of awesome. I'm still no big "Jimmie Rogers" fan though. The Chinese can go piss on a lake.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 18:50 | 2857665 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

Unfortunately American exceptionalism has been traded in for Obama Phones.  In better times, we would have wiped the floor with those socialist bastards.  God have mercy on our souls.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 20:24 | 2857915 stant
stant's picture

yep thats where we are at. obama phones dont work, you cant send them back, because no one knows where they came from

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 20:31 | 2857929 new game
new game's picture

fucking bow ties blow shit

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:04 | 2858113 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

It started well before Obama. I blame corporations like Wal-Mart for joblessness. CNBC's first airing of Age of Walmart had interviews with manufacturers of real items saying Walmart forced them to send production overseas to sell in Walmart's stores. It has since been removed from the special. Also corporations always trying to find the lowest wage possible.


Hmm, I wonder how they ran out of customers. /sarcasm.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:24 | 2858353 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

I remember reading those reports about those companies as well

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 19:05 | 2857708 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

It's attitudes like your's that ensure Roger's long term is likely correct. Realize he isn't worshipping them, but understands that they are in position to become the world's next premier power.

The only out is from this scenario I see (other than direct war), is repudiation of the debts underlying the dollar (which would undermine their leverage in the form of "I Own You" notes), and I just don't see that happening in the US anytime soon.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 21:57 | 2858093 Irene
Irene's picture

Of course, Rogers worships China, as well as Myanmar and other totalitarian regimes.  He groans about not being allowed to invest in Myanmar all the time and complains that it's an infringement on his freedoms as a U.S. citizen. The guy may be a great investor, but he's got his priorities wrong.  (I wonder if he's friends with Tom Friedman.)

And much as I like Faber, to think that the Russians are going to be the next great superpower, whoa!  Another totalitarian illiterate.  The Russkies are friggin' dying, man.  Their male population and youth have huge alcoholism problems.  Their birthrate is in the toilet.  So, who exactly is going to invigorate Russia, eh? The Chinese men sneaking into Siberia and marrying the Russian women?  

What is going on here?  The fuckin' crux of Austrian econ is entrepreneurs exchanging scare resources in a society where property rights and the rule of law are upheld in order to better their lot.  These guys are, at the most fundamental level of their philosophies, total and utter hypocrites.  (And i happen to like Marc Faber a lot otherwise.)

FWIW, Romney made it clear to Bernanke that he didn't want Bernanke to go ahead with QE3+.  Bernanke therefore is now all in for Obama. 

And yes, I know, I know that the US is like last in line re economic freedoms in the Western world.  But that can be fixed, so please don't bleat on about it.  

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:10 | 2858129 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

You're blaming Jim Rogers for abandoning a country that has abandoned 99% of its citizens?

I agree that Faber is way off saying Russia is the next super power. We handed everything to China with instructions (literally instructions on how to produce our products). If China can hold itself together, they are pretty much guaranteed the 21st century, but that is a big if.

You are mistaken to think Romney's economic plans with differ from Obama's. Even after he lifts some of the restrictions on businsesses, he will find out our economy was gutted long before he took office. Then it will be time to print.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:15 | 2858138 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

exactly. Let Romney get rid of Bernak and stop QE. I dare him. I double dog dare him.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:32 | 2858173 Irene
Irene's picture

Oh, posh. You sound like those OWS wankers in Union Square.  "We're the 99%!"  Yeah, right.  We got the government we deserved.  Everybody here wanted a free lunch, and guess what?  The bill has come due.  

(I'll reserve my sympathy for all the people who played by the rules, saved and now are going to see their life's work evaporate due to inflation.  And judging by our savings rate, that ain't no 99%.)

As for Romney later finding out that he'll have to print, what do you think Bernanke's doing right now?  I'll vote for Romney because the alternative is Obama, and we know what 4 more years of that will do.  We may be partially gutted, but we're not down and out just yet and I'm not giving up because the alternative is just to lie down and die. Have a nice life.  


Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:06 | 2858338 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

"We may be partially gutted, but we're not down and out just yet and I'm not giving up because the alternative is just to lie down and die."  I think I love U Irene.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 02:19 | 2858462 tickhound
tickhound's picture

LMFAO!  So now if I don't vote for Romney, or better yet not vote at all... I'm giving up and laying down to die?

Listen you naive twerp.  Romney is a product of finance capital.  Obama is a product of finance capital.  That means NO MATTER WHAT YOU'RE DUMBASS THINKS, you can count on war, poverty, welfare, sickness with no cures, food/fuel/health/education inflation, lies, propaganda, gridlock... AND to which exceptionally low interest rates will owe no allegiance. 

"I'll vote for Romney because the alternative is Obama"

Pure genius.  Cuz we never hear...

"I'll vote for Obama because the alternative is Romney"

Your vote is for the status quo.  Nothing more. 

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 03:07 | 2858498 Irene
Irene's picture

I'm hardly a naive little twerp.  You think you know how to talk the talk.  Well buddy, I've walked the walk (except for the welfare bit), and, hate to tell you this, but everything you've listed is a fact of life. In other words, evil and deprivation never really go away.  Even if they temporarily are abated on the material plane, they reappear in different forms (e.g., look at the % of America that's being medicated to death).  In other words, you're so delusional - or so juvenile - you think we can have utopia here on earth.  Now where have I heard people saying that before?  "No wars! No hunger!"  Yeah, right.  

I'll still take the guy who says he's a product of finance capital (Romney) any day over the guy who hides who he is (Obama). And Obama is hardly a product of finance capital. His background is so murky you don't even know what he studied at college, let alone who financed him and his career.


Fri, 10/05/2012 - 03:46 | 2858523 tickhound
tickhound's picture

Yeah you walk the endless corporate welfare line you partisan hack.  And no, its not a fact of life. 

And as far as pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies, advertisers, doctors all medicating and prescribing out the ass is only a symptom of the problem I very broadly outlined.  Its not some different 'form' from a different plane you space cadet from another planet.

And yes, that's right.  I say no to your multiple pre-emptive undeclared wars... you sick demented fuck.

"Hardly a product of finance capital" LOL.  Yeah and you're hardly a naive little twerp.



Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:41 | 2858184 Irene
Irene's picture

Bobbyrib,  How the f*ck can you say with a straight face that the USA has abandoned 99% of its citizens and not say a word about what Myanmar has done to theirs?  You need a reality check.  Seriously.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:24 | 2858160 upWising
upWising's picture

Read the comments sections on Yahoo or Drudge or just about anywhere else here in Amercia and you see Caucasoids soiling their Fruit of the Looms because of the "Invasion of the Little Brown People From the South."  What the Mexicans lost at Guadalupe Hidalgo, they will recover on the Seeley Posturpedic Mattress as DEMOGRAPHICS  (Bill Clinton calls it "Arithmetic")  takes its course.

Read History people and you will see that Demographic Changes, populations rising and falling, moving hither and fro like the tides, all of this is as old as Dirt.  

And I'll bet if you could read Cyrillic in Izvestia or Pravda or just about anywhere else in Russia, you would see Slavs soiling THEIR "Fruit-sky of the Loom-sky's" because of their "Invasion of the Little Brown People from the South."  Moooslims!  They, too, know  how to count and while the Slavs drink themselves into a Vodka haze and render themselves incapable of finding their zipper, much less anything else down there, Muslim families swell with 6, 7, 8 children.  "Arithmetic" once again!

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:32 | 2858282 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

The problem has always been too many humpers and too many thumpers.

Why would you want more?


Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:39 | 2858373 vamoose1
vamoose1's picture

  they  both  stand   two  foot  two   and  go  east   for   little   girls...   fun  though   but    do  be   a  boy

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 18:52 | 2857675 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture


Faber is bearish AAPL, believes its a bubble - but too dangerous to short...

Well he's damn right about that.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 19:05 | 2857711 I am a Man I am...
I am a Man I am Forty's picture

Yeah, 15X earnings and 117B in cash is a bubble, gimme a break, that's not a bubble, FB might be a bubble, they are 76X earnings, how about google at 22X (paging reggie), that's more expensive.

If you think it's expensive, fine, but saying it's a bubble just sounds clueless.  Really getting tired of this type of nonsense, going drinking.  Stupidity is infinite.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 19:09 | 2857731 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Past performance is no indicator of future success.

Inflation will eat their earnings just like it has in all other areas of the economy.

Slave labor regimes only hold up for so long, after all.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 19:48 | 2857847 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

Put AMZN on that list. How that stock keeps going up as earnings and margins come down is unbelievable.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 20:00 | 2857870 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Put AMZN on that list. How that stock keeps going up as earnings and margins come down is unbelievable


Yep, especially since they have decided to start charging state sales taxes, plus the cost of shipping, and that is going to be a major BITE n their Kiesters sales.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 19:54 | 2857857 sandiegoman
sandiegoman's picture

when the economy dives even further there won't be many people buying new Iphones, Ipads, or MACs The old ones will do..

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 21:12 | 2858019 Nadaclue
Nadaclue's picture

I see AAPL at the same Event Horizon they were at when they fired Jobs some years ago. Sure they did OK for several months but the loss of Jobs and the current SIRI and Maps debacle show they are again on the same path to destruction.

Jobs ain't around to step in and save them, like last time. The management again fails to have the assholish perfectionist mindset the Jobs had.Jobs would have Cook's head for those fuckups.

I don't know when they will fall, I don't know the top for AAPL but I expect we will see it before the next 4 quarters. Mark my words. I still hold some AAPL but dumped most @ 700ish. Too much free candy not to. If I'm wrong, so be it bur I'd rather have it in the bank unlike how I handled the Inet boom fiasco. Lessons bub.

Guess that's what makes a market.

Mind your Topknot.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 11:20 | 2859788 Thisson
Thisson's picture

It's a bubble because Apple's customers are buying the apple products with debt (student loans, credit card, etc), and that debt is unsustainable.  The spigot is going to be shut down at some point and the customers will no longer have the credit to make these purchases.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 18:59 | 2857693 PaperBear
PaperBear's picture

And all the CNBC hosts could do was laugh as if this was one big joke.

God in heaven help those people who don’t listen to Marc and Jim because they will lose everything.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 19:03 | 2857705 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

Raaagers!!! Discount double check!

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 19:04 | 2857709 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Everyone loves to blame the Fed but the all time classic from the 2000's was "our Bank is recession proof." That's WALL STREET not the Government. At some point "disorders of all kind" DOES become a political issue. To me it's not a question of math anymore but of RATIONAL THOUGHT. Markets obviously don't behave in such a way...never have, never will. They MIGHT behave efficiently...though after the Valero thing (if true) i'm starting to wonder actually. That's the world's seventh largest economy Valero! Nothing but vinegar???!!! Whatever one thinks of Apple the real question is of course the BANKS. So get serious CNBS...either we're going into a Banking Crisis 2.0 as per Ben's Panic Attack...or there's something stupid going on. Bernanke wouldn't be the first to see enemies that didn't exist...well, is that the problem here? Maybe we should talk about it? (Preferably not here though...that is the downside of ZH. Although ironically enough...

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 19:06 | 2857717 blindman
blindman's picture

lovely disclaimer at the end, that is it.
cnbc is cognizant of its own failure thus
admitted by its legal separation from itself. duplicity
or duality?
so it seems some (ones)have a monopoly on
counterfeit currency, since 1971, and ongoing.
keyword: monopoly. thunder. terrorists.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 19:08 | 2857725 Ratscam
Ratscam's picture

nanta i love you

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 19:13 | 2857749 ShakaZulu
ShakaZulu's picture

Clueless, ignorant, dangerous.  I might add that I'm also depressed.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 19:21 | 2857774 fuu
fuu's picture

More of that please.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 19:26 | 2857791 loveyajimbo
loveyajimbo's picture

They both sounded like politicians... not committed to any recommendations you can hang your hat on... Rogers will get creamed on China... with the US and Europe in tailspins... who will buy their crap?  Next great country?  Like the next Nazi germany?  Rogers babbles about Mitt not having a clue... what does HE know? They both have been spending too much time in the bankok "Boom-Boom" rooms with diseased 12 year old boys...

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 21:57 | 2858098 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

Show some respect dipshit, both of them have seen more of the world than you ever will. Unlike you they have something interesting to say too.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 20:15 | 2857797 NuYawkFrankie
NuYawkFrankie's picture

Faber & Rogers - Yesterday's Men.


In spite of the very valid points from both (esp. re the imbecility of Romney/Obama) they're still fixated-on and trying to milk the Old Paradigm.... a Paradigm that's about to go "Splat!"

And another thing: does anyone really care what these two think about the nghtlife in Bangkok or wherever tf it is?

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 21:32 | 2857947 Bear
Bear's picture

I don't know, they both own gold and commodities, so what is the new paradigm? 


Thu, 10/04/2012 - 19:40 | 2857822 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Not to worry, Z/H readers. The biggest little "hedge Fund"{Braeburn}, aka "onshore sovereign", will fill your Christmas stockings! /sarc

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 19:45 | 2857840 ozziindaus
ozziindaus's picture

Our "leaders" are far from ignorant and clueless nor are they stupid and incompetent. Instead they are charismatic actors reading a script full of lies and deception. No alternative will be allowed to propel itself within this venue therefore a reset is the only solution.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 21:07 | 2858012 Savyindallas
Savyindallas's picture

You are largely right, but I disagree. Most are cluseless, stupid and ignorant. There are a few with brains who know full well they are traitors serving other masters.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 19:55 | 2857859 marco1324
marco1324's picture

Anymore of this and Im off for a stress wank. 

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:45 | 2858384 vamoose1
vamoose1's picture

many  thanks  for  that     weep

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 20:02 | 2857876 chump666
chump666's picture

Marc called the 2012 bull market from July/Aug.  Now he is calling the meltdown.  He knows the profit take will be messy as the cb's priced in trade is beyond frightening.

Faber would be an awesome drinking buddy, we drink tequila first then some fine the world melts down.  Starting with Asia.


Jim would get too drunk too thinks.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 20:06 | 2857881 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture


Thu, 10/04/2012 - 20:08 | 2857886 quadratic_equation
quadratic_equation's picture

When it comes to running a business the worst are the economist like these two (Faber and Rogers).  Economics is closely related to Political Science or might as well be a branch.  Economics is predicting how a business reacts according to political whim or dictate but that's not really the case.  For a business, success is knowing when to get in or knowing when to get out political dictate or otherwise.

Having said that, I think a business person would be better off as president at least he can assess when to get out or stay in according to the situation because a business person doesn't want to loss his or her capital.  I believe running the country is just like running a business.  You make deals, sell your product and make sure you make profit and not loss your capital.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 20:16 | 2857894 ozziindaus
ozziindaus's picture

I would say the best leaders are those that consider the task a burden. Not for profit, fame, glory or ego but for selfless righteous purposes. I would pick an engineer as vice president- rational, realistic and a problem solver. 

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 20:52 | 2857976 TrulyStupid
TrulyStupid's picture

Yeah, the VP has so much power and input and Engineers are always right...

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 20:17 | 2857895 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

When it comes to running a business the worst are the economist like these two (Faber and Rogers)


During the following 10 years, the portfolio [Quantum Fund] gained 4200% while the S&P advanced about 47%.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 20:28 | 2857919 walters
walters's picture

lose is spelled lose, not loss

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 21:25 | 2858032 chump666
chump666's picture

Study inflation/hyper inflation breakouts in Brazil/Argentina 1980's/1990's.

Inflation eats into profits as interest rates inflate which rips into credit/loan repayments.  So prices have to go upward to cover declining profits.  Businesses also layoff staff in all directions. 

This is now.

Faber and Rogers are players, but also know how business works.  You can't inflate profits via money printers.  It's pure madness.

Companies will be reporting how their profits have been crippled and hiring crimped because of extra outlays and costs.

This is October 2012 earnings.


F*ck the central banks, they are your enemies.


Thu, 10/04/2012 - 21:31 | 2858045 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

there will be no getting around these earnings. They are going to totally suck. This time it may take the market almost a few days to shrug it off and ignore reality and climb higher.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 21:41 | 2858064 chump666
chump666's picture

you are probably right.  but, we get 2% wipeoout, at least it gives a chance to play these ranges.  Which I think will happen.  I also think that job numbers will also cause a sell.  Just so hard to say.  It's almost a 100% all in market...but, the old 'shoeshine boy giving stock tips' or 'the hooker saying you should buy AAPL' means? Get the hell outta there.



Thu, 10/04/2012 - 21:50 | 2858083 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I hear you man. I think the wipeouts now get measured in minutes. This whole don't fight the fed bullshit will work for who knows how long. I can actually imagine the shoe shine boy and the hooker and the tbtf pushing this to insane levels. People will be dragged into it kicking and screaming and then WHAMO, someone sells and everyone goes screaming towards the exits.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:08 | 2858126 chump666
chump666's picture

lol yes.

hookers with iphone's buying the dips.

actually i think Faber came up with the hookers in nightclubs giving stock tips = get out of the market analogy.



Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:21 | 2858156 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I had an old guy come into my office when I was first licensed (2000) and told me he wanted to buy stock in yoo hoo. I started asking him why and he kept saying he had no idea, but he just had to buy yoo hoo. After ten minutes of confusion I figured out he wanted to buy yahoo. Needless to say a few months later Faber was right.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 05:02 | 2858591 falak pema
falak pema's picture

when the bell boy's dad bets on yoo-hoo you know that the market has topped into ballyhoo.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:30 | 2858357 Better_late_tha...
Better_late_than_never's picture

Oh man, you know the collapse is near when sheep like this find their way to this site and start spewing "their view" like this is facebook.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 02:44 | 2858490 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

Really? My preferrence for the Prez would be a complete MORON. A 'tard that was only interested in finger painting, playing with blocks, watching 'X-factor' and masterbation.  Such a Pres would do much less damage to the wider economy, including you, .... by the way you could well qualify after reading your thoughtful post :/

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 20:17 | 2857901 Number 156
Number 156's picture

Clueless stupid leader# 65

"Dont worry, we have an signed agreement with Hitler! "

Neville Chamberlain.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 20:44 | 2857930 “Rebellion to t...
“Rebellion to tyranny is obedience to God.”-ThomasJefferson's picture

Just had a huge off to take a Barack and wipe my Obama.

Tomorrow I may vote for Romney.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 20:48 | 2857965 Westcoastliberal
Westcoastliberal's picture

Great article & these guys are right, both candidates are listening to the people who want the leaching to continue.  What will end it?  Probably something like this:


Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!