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Naval Update: T-Minus One Week Until Arabian Sea Destination Reached

Tyler Durden's picture


The news surrounding the Middle East, particularly Iran and Syria, may come and go in waves, but for the most part it is loud political grandstanding, jawboning and largely noise. Or rather, it will be noise until these two catalytic events occur: the third US Aircraft carrier (CVN-74 Stennis) and the second big deck amphibious warfare ship (LHA-5 Peleliu), both dispatched as of several weeks ago with a destination the 5th US Fleet headquartered in Bahrain, reach their target - the Arabian Sea, located by the Straits of Hormuz and right next to Iran. As the following naval update map from Stratfor shows, both are now within a week of reaching their destination: conveniently so with at least two weeks to go until the presidential election. Needless to say, once on location, the naval and airborne support for any offensive operation, especially those launched during new moon cycles, will be simply suffocating.

Source: Stratfor


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Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:01 | 2858104 10mm
10mm's picture

Hey,they forgot some comrades to take,the ones who will be supporting local law enforcement for a fuckin football game this weekend in South Carolina.Shit ya not.Military Police.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:06 | 2858115 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Hold on to your butts. Silver just popped north of 35 with considerable momentum.  Going to be a fugly friday at the stock markets tomorrow.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:13 | 2858135 nofluer
nofluer's picture

BFD - it was 40 or over within the last year... or two. Call me when it goes over the Hunt Bros high...

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:22 | 2858159 Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

Oct. 11-14 is the panic climax window this October:

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:28 | 2858166 Randall Cabot
Randall Cabot's picture

Iran Navy commander: 75 million Iranians ready for defense

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:08 | 2858233 10mm
10mm's picture

Read the comments from that article,enlighting.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:19 | 2858252 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

It looks like everyone is in the pacifics....

no war with iran before elections....


dealing with island disputes with china first.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:46 | 2858311 RobD
RobD's picture

The Stennis is about to pass through the Straits of Mellacca and will then have a strait shot across the Indian ocean. Should not be long before it is in position.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:22 | 2858351 markmotive
markmotive's picture

Iranian riots over currency plunge and massive inflation have begun


Fri, 10/05/2012 - 05:35 | 2858610 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

The ghost of Roosevelt rides again!

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 06:43 | 2858647 fredquimby
fredquimby's picture

Iranian gold owners are up 17% this last month





Fri, 10/05/2012 - 01:29 | 2858429 Element
Element's picture

It's presence there is more a warning to China's oil vulnerability than an added threat to Iran.

The more significant question is not just were are the major surface fleet units, but where are the US and also Chinese and Japanese subs, and that is the bit you never know.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 08:37 | 2858852 kralizec
kralizec's picture

Releiving Enterprise, no big deal.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:39 | 2858371 RichardP
RichardP's picture

Read the comments from that article; enlighting.

I particularly liked this comment:

Iranian people are brave men who will defy their country to the last drop of blood.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 01:45 | 2858443 old naughty
old naughty's picture


Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:58 | 2858329 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

I think the Iranians are more astute militarily than people give them credit for-especially more capable than Iraq was. i don't think this will be another Operation Eat Our Freedom. They are dug into their mountains like the Swiss are into theirs.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 01:41 | 2858440 JoeSexPack
JoeSexPack's picture



I've met many Iranians here in LA, & I doubt they'll go quietly.



Fri, 10/05/2012 - 02:00 | 2858454 Simon Endean
Simon Endean's picture

They pussed out pretty epically when Khomeini took the country.  Unless you mean "quietly" in the sense of not talking loudly, in which case, concur.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 02:02 | 2858455 Simon Endean
Simon Endean's picture

Double post, gah.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 01:55 | 2858450 Element
Element's picture

Yes, the Iranians saw what happened with Iraq so there's no way they'll allow US forces to move around on the ground in Iran, like they did in the flat central valley of Iraq. They Iranians will rip them open wherever they go, and in high valley terrain MANPADs become particularly effective against helicopters and jets, because a MANPAD fired from a high ridge line travels further, faster, higher, further horizontally, and also lower into the valley, and there is a much better view and communications opportunities.  Similar applies for observation and command of ground forces, and for firing anti-armour weapons at valley-bound vehicles.  Plus transiting long valleys, which is most of Western Iran, can see you cut off at both ends and annihilated.  Same applies for para-drops.

So anything the US does will involve bombardment, not full-scale invasion.  Marines may take coastal areas on the ground for awhile, but they will be surrounded and forced to vacate. Iran has had a long time to prepare for this battle and they will do enormous military damage to the US, and the instability will last for many decades if it kicks off.

Afghanistan's latest destabilisation has lasted 33 years already, and Iraq about 30 years.  South east Asia's destabilisation lasted about 25 years, Korea has lasted for 60 years.  And Pakistan's destabilisation is just getting going. The problems in Libya and Syria will probably last decades as well.  It's a really bad idea to start this shit off, and starting something now with Iran is the dumbest idea of all.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 02:10 | 2858460 Desert Irish
Desert Irish's picture

Well said. You have to put put boots on the ground to control terrain. Rumsfield"s "light" is not going to cut it they will be annilahted and the only regime change will happen in the white house. 3 -1 is the standard combat model so you take a population of 75 million and for shits and giggles say 10 million fighting troops - so we need 3 million troops in Iran??? that's the low side

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 07:03 | 2858657 Vigilante
Vigilante's picture

The usual liberal appeasing talk.

Iran will fold in a matter of weeks..

Ahmadinejad and co will have the same fate as Saddam,Ghaddafi et al...

Bring it on I say..enough of this charade

It lasted six long years already

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 05:43 | 2858614 Ausmerican
Ausmerican's picture

the headline in bold is annoying and misleading

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 03:22 | 2858513 Monedas
Monedas's picture

What insanity ?  The grain has been harvested .... those with bad harvests or too many mouths to feed .... go raiding grain stores .... before winter sets in .... people with grain to sell buy gold and silver !  You don't need to explain it with bi-polar theories !

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:41 | 2858295 Cyrano de Bivouac
Cyrano de Bivouac's picture

Why did silver plunge today twice?

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:47 | 2858313 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

why did you post this thrice?

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:40 | 2858296 Cyrano de Bivouac
Cyrano de Bivouac's picture

Why did silver plunge today twice?

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:47 | 2858314 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

why did you post this thrice?

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:40 | 2858297 Cyrano de Bivouac
Cyrano de Bivouac's picture

Why did silver plunge today twice?

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:47 | 2858315 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

why did you post this thrice?

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:58 | 2858376 Cyrano de Bivouac
Cyrano de Bivouac's picture

Mistake sorry. I was just curious about the plunge silver had during the day and then it went straight up.



Fri, 10/05/2012 - 03:25 | 2858515 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Please pass the rice !

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:24 | 2858261 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

google "Elwood,IL" and "Walmart warehouse" to see how the DHS goon squad is being used in that hotbead of terrorist territory-the SW Chicago burbs. the thugs do what their banker/corporate masters tell them and if you think they won't fill the air with lead on fellow americans when commanded to then you are sadly mistaken.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 01:41 | 2858439 Two Towers AU AG
Two Towers AU AG's picture

Tyler Durden - If you all are looking for a nice new moon then look no further than Nov 13th when the new moon is in Libra along with the sun thereby causing a solar eclipse. This is followed by a Lunar eclilpse on the full moon day on Nov 28.
No two eclipses usually dont occur in the same month this happens once a year or sometimes even more time passes by.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 05:29 | 2858607 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Yep. Supposedly Federal military, not national guard or state guard (militia) troops. Both state branches have MP detachments, so... why the need for Feds?  both state branches are well-equipped. Somebody had Posse Comitatus for lunch.

Plus, watchtowers, Barney Fife checkpoints, TSA perverts.

Stay home. It's on TV.

Actually, due to black and mexican gang activity in the area, and recent shootings, we may be devolving into chaos.

I would simply arm all the fans; most are already.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:01 | 2858105 SilverTree
SilverTree's picture

WAR, it's whats for lunch.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:52 | 2858201 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

WAR, it's what's for launch

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:01 | 2858220 Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture's Murder wrapped up in a pretty little flag.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:56 | 2858326 Keyser
Keyser's picture

War, the mini-series. Same bat-channel, same bat-time. 

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:01 | 2858107 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

I don't think getting involved in another war is part of Obama's

re-election strategy. Unless , of course, a false flag event could

be engineered which would make the sheeple demand revenge. 

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:08 | 2858125 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Time for monkey war.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:17 | 2858143 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Nah that never happens..... And buildings never fall into their own foot print just because they happen to be near two other buildings who fell into their own footprint from a fire 96 stories up. Nope... False flags never happen.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:28 | 2858161 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I had the 9/11 conversation last night with a closed minded friend. He literally lost his mind. Instead of backing off I pried the lid off his head and forced him to think critically and prove his points. of which he had none except what was ponded into his head. He refused to give and his wife walked in and started yelling at him to wake the fk up, which shocked both of us. Crazy.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:51 | 2858199 Timmay
Timmay's picture

That guy isn"t getting laid for a LONG time.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:55 | 2858205 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

doesn't really matter because by the sound of it...he was already fucked.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:00 | 2858332 Keyser
Keyser's picture

There are millions just like him. So sad that people don't / can't think for themselves anymore and rely on being told what to think. 


Fri, 10/05/2012 - 03:27 | 2858517 Monedas
Monedas's picture

A war would give Obama cover to skip the last two oracle debate debacles !     

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 05:02 | 2858589 spentCartridge
spentCartridge's picture

Hundreds of millions ...

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:08 | 2858231 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Did you show him building seven videos? I know it took me a long time to seriously consider it until I saw the videos of building seven. That's what sealed it for me.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:16 | 2858246 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

i showed him the bbc vid . he said videos mean nothing and that bbc probably reported it after building 7 dropped but they used a fake backdrop....yes a fake backdrop that had the twin towers in ashes...

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:26 | 2858267 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Wow! He really is avoiding reality.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:49 | 2858389 RichardP
RichardP's picture

The backdrop on major news sets is a screen upon which they can show any picture or video replay that they choose to show.  Makes the anchors/reporters seem like they are standing where they really aren't standing.  If you don't watch television news, then you maybe don't know that.

A reporter could easily be standing before such a screen, screen showing replay of video taken hours earlier, discussing current events (the collapse of Bldg. 7 for example) - while the video replaying on the screen shows the scene before Bldg. 7 collapsed.

If you deny that newsrooms have that capability, then you would be the one avoiding reality.


Fri, 10/05/2012 - 06:48 | 2858652 DavidC
DavidC's picture

A good point. Strange, then, that the BBC tried to fudge it as some sort of mistake by the reporter rather than just saying the back drop was not live.


Sat, 10/06/2012 - 12:09 | 2862810 Jackagain
Jackagain's picture

The "backdrop" technique is called chromakey if they're using it to create a film. The technique that you're talking about is what they use when doing the weather.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 14:34 | 2860486 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Fonz, the BBC thing looks like deception to me. Don't get caught up in that. Stick with solid evidence. Stick with all three collapses, the eyewitnesses who know of explosions in the basements, the nanothermite found in the rubble, the known speeds of the collapses, the structures of the towers, etc. This is where the hard evidence is. Show quotes from folks from the Commission who have come out and said they were lied to. Look into Max Cleland, Bertha Champagne, Securacom, etc.

There is much more hard evidence than the BBC video, which could be meaningless.

Ask your friend to explain how molten steel was found under the rubble months later. Then show him what nanothermite is, and ask him how unexploded/unignited chips get into the rubble of those buildings.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:00 | 2858333 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

Building 7 is the easiest way down the rabbit hole.  Here's a new video showing it from the back, demolition explosions and all:

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:38 | 2858369 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Wow! I've never seen that one before. Thanks.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 12:05 | 2858503 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



What part of "pull it" do people not understand?

Silverstien said "pull it", meaning demolition charges were already in place, all wired up to sequencing detonators, demo crew waiting for the go-ahead to push the button.

Sounds like normal planned demolition to me ...and looked like any other planned demolition when it came down. 

Yep, bldg 7 pretty much proves the inside job theory.

I'm sorry if weak-stomach people (and their feminized feeling-ruled minds) can't accept the possibility that our rouge government would wipe out 3,000 people in such a horrific way in the biggest false flag event of modern times, to gain popular support for a "war on terror" that has killed hundreds of thousands since then and launched America headlong into police state fascism, throwing the constitution in the trash can once and for all, wiping out the last traces of rights and liberty, ultimately declaring Americans "domestic terrorists" for merely speaking against what this rouge government does, deserving incarceration and execution without any due process.

That's the very same unlimited power over citizens Hitler and the Nazi party gained after the Reichstag fire.

My first thought upon hearing about the twin towers that day was "Reichstag fire". 

America's "Reichstag fire". 

Go look it up.


Fri, 10/05/2012 - 14:37 | 2860500 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Prescott Bush and his buddies were Nazis. They ran a Nazi bank. They helped Nazis avoid hanging at Nuremburg after the war. See Operation Paperclip. This is the same group of Nazis, just another generation or two down the line. These are the same secret societies, international occultism at work.

COG, I would disagree that "pull it" is important in any context, at all. Silverstein says he was referring to the firemen. He was talking to the fire chief. That works fine for me. I don't need the "pull it" comment to show that 911 was an inside job, and neither do you.

Stick to the better evidence. There's plenty of it.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 21:25 | 2861873 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



Are you some self-appointed evidence cop dumbass?



Fri, 10/05/2012 - 07:06 | 2858660 DavidC
DavidC's picture

Yes, great. If you do even the most cursory of investigation you will find that it is a hoax video.

Look, I think there was something very odd about THREE skyscrapers ALL coming down in their own footprints, and one of them not even hit by anything other than maybe flying debris, but I'm not going to swallow anything that seems to corroborate my feelings without checking.


Fri, 10/05/2012 - 05:23 | 2858604 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Watching white-hot metal (steel?) pour out of one of the towers before it collapsed cannot be explained by a jet fuel fire...

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 07:13 | 2858664 mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

Melting point of aluminum is 1220F.

Open air hydrocarbon fires commonly reach that temperature.

Well fueled truck fires are pretty spectacular as an example.   The engine block survives.    Not so much on the sheet metal.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 08:01 | 2858712 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

Melted Al doesn't glow orange-red. It melts silvery-white.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 14:59 | 2860599 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Yup, Troll bigtime. And normal fires, whether started by jet fuel or not, would not have gotten over 1k degrees anyway. The fires did not get that hot. We know that.

Something, however, DID get that hot. Nanothermite anyone?

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 22:31 | 2862011 mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

"In fires (particularly house fires), the cooler flames are often red and produce the most smoke. Here the red color compared to typical yellow color of the flames suggests that the temperature is lower. This is because there is a lack of oxygen in the room and therefore there is incomplete combustion and the flame temperature is low, often just 600–850 °C (1,112–1,562 °F). This means that a lot of carbon monoxide is formed (which is a flammable gas if hot enough) which is when in Fire and Arson investigation there is greatest risk of backdraft. When this occurs flames get oxygen, carbon monoxide combusts and temporary temperatures of up to 2,000 °C (3,632 °F) occur"


Try taking a chemistry course someday jackass.

Sat, 10/06/2012 - 12:14 | 2862820 Jackagain
Jackagain's picture

Those girders in the twin towers were extremely thick, and no fire could melt them. It took thermite to do it.



Fri, 10/05/2012 - 14:29 | 2860468 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Nanothermite in the rubble pretty much makes it a slam dunk.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:04 | 2858337 BlackholeDivestment
BlackholeDivestment's picture

Fonzannoon, just ask them what the first rule of any investigation is. Yer allowed to give them a hint.

                                    ffffff ollow the mmm mmm

When ''money'' is confirmed, just put down a New World Order Fed Debt Note on the table in front of them, pyramid side up, lol, then ask them how much money would they consider ''real'', lol, ''money, blaa haa haa haa, to ''pull it''? If they can't bridge the gap between ''end result'' and stated goals, which confirm completed events that match, well then, time to turn the bread and circus game on, crack a keg of tripple abbey ale and play debate drinking games.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:03 | 2858223 Overfed
Overfed's picture

But the news, and NIST, Popular Mechanics, and the government all said it was from burning jet fuel and office furnishings. They would never lie to us, they're on our side. /s

Which makes ya' wonder. It seems like a hundred gallons of diesel is whole lot cheaper than 1500lbs of Tovex, 10,000 feet of det cord, and several hundred man hours of at least semi-skilled labor. How come major demolition companies don't just use some burning diesel in the upper 1/10th of the structure to demo buildings? I mean, not one, but three very tall, very stout buildlings all dropped into their footprints from burning kerosene in the same place on the same day. Right?

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:27 | 2858264 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

Wow, thats an angle I had not heard.

The plus side is there would be no concrete to remove  you would  just need a dust buster,

Think of the savings!

The 10 largest antitrust law firms in the United States have gone into the federal courts charging Monsanto with creating a global conspiracy in violation of the antitrust laws, to control the global market in seeds.
Jeremy Rifkin


But there are no conspiracys right!


A building went down without being attacked; a plane went down without attacking.

Dapper Dan Circa 2007

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:30 | 2858278 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

law firms not making much they go after anyone with money


not that monsanto doesn't deserve it, but firms that get you $5 off coupon while they make out with millions is just like the politicians

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:59 | 2858398 john39
john39's picture

at least someone is doing something.... calfornians...  one thing worth voting for these days, prop 37, require GMO labeling.... stop Monsanto

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 02:24 | 2858468 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture


767s don't fly on diesel, and they hold much more than a few hundred gallons.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 03:51 | 2858508 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



Yes jet fuel is diesel more or less, ok, kerosine, still diesel more or less. 

And 10,000 gallons of jet-A isn't gonna burn any hotter than 1,000 gallons, so what's your point?

And if those jets were carrying a lot of fuel, say 15,000 gallons, we would have seen a huge cloud of jet fuel burst out of those wings when they broke up impacting the building, which we didn't see.

In fact much of the fuselage would have broken up impacting the side of the building and fallen to the street below, like engines for example, which didn't happen.

I'm beginning to have doubts there were any planes at all.  I've seen frame-by-frame video analysis pointing out so many telltale signs of computer manipulation of the image, it's possible what we saw on TV was cgi, not live video.

It's ironic that all networks were showing the same video "feed".  One "feed" supplied to all networks.  When has that ever happened before?

It had to be set up in advance.  Which means they knew it was gonna happen and when.

After TWA 800 they showed the public lots of pictures and video of the re-assembled wreckage.  But after 9/11 we didn't see one single picture of any piece of plane wreckage.  Why?   Maybe there were no planes.

They showed planes (allegedly) hitting the towers, but no video of the plane hitting the pentagon?  All that video was confiscated and kept from the public?  Why?  Maybe there was no plane hitting the pentagon.  Maybe it was a missile.  Initial photos of the hole looked like it might have been something about the size of a cruise missile ...which only the military would have ...certainly not a bunch of Arabs with boxcutters.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 04:45 | 2858576 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Not to distract from the rest of the problems with the official story, but-

1) Structural Steel (generally) is going to have a melting point slightly below 3000F

2) Tungsten has melting point slightly above 6000F

3) The combustion temperatures of diesel fuel, natural gas, (and even A1 avaiation fuel) are in the same ballpark

3a) The are even single engine block dual fuel engines (incidentally made out of steel) specifically designed to burn both diesel and natural gas

If structural steel is so difficult to melt, then how could anyone melt tungsten in a gas fired kiln? 

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 05:17 | 2858601 spentCartridge
spentCartridge's picture

Gas fired kilns are boosted with oxygen/air.


Ever introduced oxygen to a fire?

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 06:12 | 2858632 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

I've been machining, forging, and welding since I was a teen.

Internal combustion engines also introduce introduce oxygen, but they don't seem to melt. (see physics of heat (heat transfer, heat accumulation))

People have been also melting (forging) iron & steel since the beginning of the Iron Age- using wood, coal, or similar materials and w/o the benefit of 90% O2.

My point is that the statement, "10,000 gallons of jet-A isn't gonna burn any hotter than 1,000 gallons" while factually correct, is utterly irrelevant to the process of melting steel, and is a red herring in terms of getting to the bottom of what caused several buildings to "fall down" on 9/11/2001.


Fri, 10/05/2012 - 12:22 | 2859988 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



Because tungsten isn't melted in a gas-fired kiln, it's melted in an electric arc furnace like titanium is.

That electric arc is about 11,000 degrees.

And speaking of gas-fired kiln, yes, gas-fired re-heating furnances are used throughout the steel industry to re-heat ingots for forging, rolling, etc. 

But it takes 5 - 6 hours in that furnace to bring an ingot up to maleable temprature, around 2500 degrees, stll under the melting point.

No, it's NOT gonna get that hot in 1 hour in an air-starved jet fuel fire producing more black smoke than anything else.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 12:49 | 2860068 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Just about all modern industrial-scale smelting is done with electric arc furnaces. It's much more efficient than other methods.


Fri, 10/05/2012 - 17:42 | 2861196 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

That provides the key detail for a more proper evisceration of the government's BS.  I disagree that there wasn't enough oxygen feeding the fire (given the height and wind strength) but that part of the equation would be counteracted by the lack of insulation and vacuum pressure.  Regardless, there wasn't enough TIME to allow the purported fuel (even summing A1 & combustible office furnishings) to "melt" the a36 structural steel of the purported dimensions.  Also, given the less than ideal furnace conditions, the structural members were "warmed" to the point of failure with remarkable uniformity (given there were exactly 0 Flaming Tower of Pisa falls) in 100% of the instances occurring that day, I've never experienced or witnessed such "luck" myself.

The correct math would be atrocious without a revit model, but for purposes of illustration lets just assume degradation of the safety factor to failure.  The time elapsed between impact and failure is known, the since we both know our steel, I think we can agree that an A1 sauce is good for about 425C/800F.  Either all the buildings were not anywhere nearsa  as over engineered as claimed or the fire was much hotter than 800F.

Typical Creep Rates and Rupture Stresses for Structural Steels at Various Temperatures

Stress, ksi, for creep rate of Stress, ksi, for rupture in
Test 0.0001% 0.00001%
temperature, ?F per h* per h† 1000 h 10,000 h 100,000 h
A36 steel
800 21.4 13.8 38.0 24.8 16.0
900 9.9 6.0 18.5 12.4 8.2
1000 4.6 2.6 9.5 6.3 4.2

FYI the shop I use for tempering has a gas chamber that is rated for warming crucibles to 1600C and does it less than half that time.  But given the high cost of nat. gas over here it's not a practical substitute for an electric induction furnace. 

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 14:45 | 2860541 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

COG, your posts on this subject look suspicious to me.

Stick with the nanothermite, the collapse speeds of the buildings (impossible to explain without controlled demolition), the different stories told by the agencies (NORAD, FAA, USAF), the eyewitnesses (cops, firefighters, longtime workers in the buildings, reporters, etc).

Refer people to great websites like this one

or this one (which denies the no-plane theories of WTC and Pentagon):

Or tell folks to find any book (or several) on the subject by David Ray Griffin.

Your posts look to me to be attempting to present fringe elements of the conspiracy theories as the most valid points, and this is problematic for me.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 21:03 | 2861818 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



Fringe elements?

They're observations so very obvious a child could see them. 

A large passenger jet hitting a building ringed with heavy steel I-beam, and nothing breaks off and falls to the street below?  The whole plane penetrates those heavy steel I-beams and goes in the buiding?

Of course not.  It's blatantly obvious.

But you say nanothermite is a better theory? 

And you recommend *I* stay away from "fringe elements"?


Fri, 10/05/2012 - 15:02 | 2860610 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Xeno, have you ever operated a gas grill?

Have you ever left it on for hours? Ever see the grate melt? Turn the flames up high, leave it on for hours, and watch what happens.

Think the steel in those buildings was tested? The trusses (weaker steel by far than the outer walls' or inner cores' steel) were tested, under load, at 2k F, for hours, before passing the required tests and being put into the building.

Do let us know how that barbeque grill experiment works for ya, though. ;)

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:41 | 2858177 aint no fortuna...
aint no fortunate son's picture

It may not be part of his strategy, but when netanyahoo starts the shitstorm what's he gonna do, send 'em home? I think he figured out already he ain't getting any more invites to Stockholm.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:05 | 2858227 Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture

What makes you think the Obamanation has ANY part in this process????

He does what he is TOLD!!! They all do!!!

Fucking traitors.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:31 | 2858279 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

No one thinks there will be a war before the election, that is why there may be one. Surprise is very valuable in war and it won't be a surprised if Iran is attacked. It could be a surprise WHEN it is attacked. Stupidest time for them to do it would be right after the election when it's expected, the best time would be ...never.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:57 | 2858327 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Please, not again. 

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:03 | 2858112 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

Just in time for the new moon on October 15.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:05 | 2858117 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

Or perhaps October 11th.  Nothing bad ever happens on the 11th.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:07 | 2858121 erg
erg's picture

Where's my tiny umbrella? That always works.

Barely above 35 and resistance already.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:10 | 2858130 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture



Resistence is futile.


Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:12 | 2858133 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Restsistence is futile


Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:20 | 2858152 erg
erg's picture

From this day forward you will serve us.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:12 | 2858134 LeisureSmith
LeisureSmith's picture

Shit Sandwiches for everybody...Yay.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:15 | 2858139 nofluer
nofluer's picture

Resistence is fungible.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 05:27 | 2858606 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Resistance (correct speling!) is useful for limiting current flow!  R = E / I

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:18 | 2858144 toomanyfakecons...
toomanyfakeconservatives's picture

Danger, danger! This naval ordnance packs a punch!


And don't forget the coming MASS ARRESTS and the END OF THE FED...

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:33 | 2858283 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

I think that the bathtub that are the Straits of Hormuz will prove to be to big carriers what WWII was to the battleship-proof that they are obsolete.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:36 | 2858288 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

We can make it much wider.


We have the technology.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:33 | 2858285 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

That youtube sounds like communist sympathizers.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:21 | 2858153 ozziindaus
ozziindaus's picture

Israel will bomb the shit out of Iran and then ask for restitution. The Chutzpah

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:21 | 2858154 max2205
max2205's picture

Just picking up the Saudi gold payoff. Keep moving

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:25 | 2858157 The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

Ron Paul needs to lead a secession and become the president of a new Confederacy. Everyone with gold would move there and the other sheeples would become even more fucked.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 07:10 | 2858662 Vigilante
Vigilante's picture

Ron Paul=Mr. Bean

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:23 | 2858158 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I'm taking the other side. Those poor smart M/Fers in Iran are starving their asses off. The peeps that be know it, and are holding them hostage.  We know full well, that Iran has nothing but "peaceful" ,nuclear ambitions!

   Signatory/ Million Dollar Bonus.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 01:02 | 2858401 sitenine
sitenine's picture

Sure, you're a good troll, but with all due respect, you, Sir, are no MDB.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:39 | 2858176 russwinter
russwinter's picture

New moon Is Oct 15. 

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:43 | 2858185 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

Price of oil needs support, so achmadinejad and bibi rattle some sabers, and make a boatload of cash.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:44 | 2858188 sitenine
sitenine's picture

This isn't very encouraging either:

Continuous Turkish artillery barrage cuts out 10-km buffer strip inside Syria

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:44 | 2858383 Hi Ho Silver
Hi Ho Silver's picture

It's just a Turkey shoot.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:55 | 2858204 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Keep these Stratfor pieces coming Tyler, I always like to know where the capital ships are.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:01 | 2858218 robertzajac
robertzajac's picture

Business as usual for the warmongers.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:09 | 2858232 Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture

I guess it is. "We" certainly haven't done anything to stop-em.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:41 | 2858300 knukles
knukles's picture

The Ignobel Prize Messiah of Peace and Harmony is Awaiting His Proper Right and Meet Moment,

Just give Him another 4 more years.
Then Judge Him as Ye Shall Be Judged Before the Tribunal

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:19 | 2858253 Pejorative Requiem
Pejorative Requiem's picture

Hey Fight Club, here's a naval asset story worth pursuing: CVN 65 scheduled for decommissioning on 12/13/2012. What's in a name, Romeo?

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:37 | 2858291 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

Dec 13th is Ted Nugent's birthday.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:54 | 2858307 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

USS Wango Tango.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 01:04 | 2858402 hunglow
hunglow's picture

TN for president and gun rights!

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:26 | 2858255 UnpatrioticHoarder
UnpatrioticHoarder's picture

Right now CVN-74 Stennis and LHA-5 Peleliu seem more concerned with tensions around Chinese territorial claims. Their departure for the Middle East may signal not just impending war on Iran/Syria, but a green light for hostilities to commence between non-US forces around China.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:58 | 2858331 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

Gotta keep China busy (translation:in the fog of war 'inadvertently' hand them territorial possessions in exchange for standing down) if they're gonna make a move on Iran.

Wonder what plan (translation: gifting) they have arranged for Russia?

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:23 | 2858258 Divine Wind
Divine Wind's picture


It will be interesting to see what becomes of Jordan.

I enjoyed the place. Never seen desert as sun bleached and white as parts of the interior of that country.

Their version of the regional food is excellent.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:38 | 2858292 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

Snow is whiter.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:44 | 2858304 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

they've always played ball with the US-Abdullah II's dad was even married to a CIA operative-but he shouldn't get too comfy on that throne-the Israelis want  that Med Sea natty gas all to themselves-follow the $.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:49 | 2858317 Desert Irish
Desert Irish's picture

Jordan learned their lesson in '67 and lost the West Bank and Jerusalem. They were lured into it by other Arab nations hoping to use Jordan's UK trained troops whilst Jordan initially staying neutral during the conflict. Jordan would be happy to see Iran anniliated and the Palestenians removed from their territory. That will be the trade off for Isreali forces using their air space to attack Iran.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:42 | 2858302 jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

1 week's sail between 7th and 5th AOR eh?


Keeping it flexible and people guessing.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:44 | 2858305 jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

Also - recall a few months ago it was said Israel "rented" an airbase in Azerbaijan.


A weekish ago in the news there was talk about Azerbaijan thinking about helping Israel if they strike Iran.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:51 | 2858320 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

Azerbaijan will be contributing 2 Sopwith Pups to the attack.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 23:59 | 2858330 jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

Don't underestimate!  So low tech, they're probably stealth vs modern AA systems.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 12:17 | 2859976 optimator
optimator's picture

I thought you'd suggest them contributing 2 Storch.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:35 | 2858364 Ewe235
Ewe235's picture

So ZH is becoming the millionth 911 conspiracy site... great.


Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:58 | 2858397 buzzardsluck
buzzardsluck's picture

To which conspiracy are you referring to, the 'official story' or the real one, because one is mostly definitly a conspiracy.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 14:53 | 2860573 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Ewe, rich people tend to hang out with each other. People of the same races do it a bit, too, on occasion, as do folks with the same religious beliefs, etc.

Smart people like to hang out with other smart people. This is because we get tired of being the smartest person in every conversation. Trust me, it can be tiresome.

People who understand that 911 was an inside job are generally much smarter than people who do not. Remember, there can only be one truth about the matter--it's a matter of fact (a crime), not one of opinion (like which ism works best or which candidate to vote for, like should we go to war w/Iran, etc). There can only be one explanation for the event.

If you are complaining because so many smart folks flock here, perhaps you should go to an "even more stupider" site somewhere?

Or maybe you can explain why or how pools of molten steel were still in the rubble weeks and months after the event?


Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:40 | 2858374 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Obama's czars and staff met last night after the debates to consider damage control.  The result of their deliberations is that they ordered the Navy to procede full speed to the Persian Gulf to blow the shit out of the poor Iranians.


Fri, 10/05/2012 - 01:14 | 2858421 RichardP
RichardP's picture

Obama goaded Romney into getting specific on issues that he has not been specific on before.  Problem is, those specifics Romeny said in the debate contradict some of the things Romney has said on the campaign trail.  I expect to see those discrepancies used by Obama as ammo in the second debate.  Watching the night unfold, it seemed to me that Obama's handlers set him up to do this on purpose.  But maybe I'm seeing strategy where none exists.  Time will tell.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 01:40 | 2858437 tickhound
tickhound's picture

LOL!  Dude wrestling is fake. 

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 05:12 | 2858594 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

No. The real president, Valerie Jarrett, is a native-born Iranian. That's why Obungler did not support their last uprising. Obungler just shows up for debates and expects the media to carry him.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 00:56 | 2858396 hunglow
hunglow's picture

Where are the SSGN's?

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 01:38 | 2858435 Two Towers AU AG
Two Towers AU AG's picture

If you all are looking for a nice new moon then look no further than Nov 13th when the new moon is in Libra along with the sun thereby causing a solar eclipse. This is followed by a Lunar eclilpse on the full moon day on Nov 28.

No two eclipses usually dont occur in the same month this happens once a year or sometimes even more time passes by.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 04:05 | 2858546 TheObsoleteMan
TheObsoleteMan's picture

All of this naval/military maneuvering is just grand theater. It will not become necessary to attack Iran. Their currency is already in terminal hyperinflation. This will lead to an economic collapse in a matter of weeks, or even days. Once this happens, regime change ALWAYS occurs. Who needs a naval armada when you have SWIFT. Iranian banks have essentially been shut off from the global economy for sometime now, unable to send or receive payments. This is why the Kenyan pretender is insisting to Israel that time is on their side, and any attack should wait. For the first time, I agree with him on something. An attack on Iran now could seriously jeopardize his re-election, while a revolution brought about by the imposed sanctions could all but guarantee him a second term. There is no need to attack Iran. They will implode shortly. Turkey will invade Syria any day now, and as they are a NATO member, the US and Britain are all but obliged to "come to their assistance." Two feathers in the Kenyan's hat by November.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 04:13 | 2858558 Monedas
Monedas's picture

You make sense BUT he's not from Kenya .... he was born in Hawaii in his mother's apartment with a mid-wife !   His real father is Frank Marshall Davis ! 

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 04:14 | 2858559 TheObsoleteMan
TheObsoleteMan's picture

I seriously doubt he was born in Hawaii. Could care less who is father was. That's immaterial. If he was born in Hawaii, there would not have been this colossal cover up of his birthplace. Sheriff Joe has already proved that.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 04:27 | 2858566 Monedas
Monedas's picture

I fucked up the URL !  Watch Joel Gilbert's documentary "Dreams from my real father !" .    The Hawaian birth certificate originally said "father unknown" and was doctored later !  I love Sherriff Joe but the whole birther crowd was looking in the wrong place (and I was one of them) .... their instincts were dead on .... Barack is a phony !

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 04:05 | 2858552 Monedas
Monedas's picture

If Syria is mired in shit and the Rial is imploding .... who needs a war !   I don't know about building 7 but the collapse of the twin towers happened exactly as it should have .... if the planes had hit a lot higher up .... they might not have collapsed !  Remember all those floors were hung like hammocks on the peripheral frame girders .... it was a "house of cards" .... ready to pancake .... did Mossad design the building anticipating a fake event ?   Why does every tragedy generate a parallel lunatic scenario universe ?   

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 04:20 | 2858562 TheObsoleteMan
TheObsoleteMan's picture

What Iran needs now is a "big brother". If I were in their shoes, I would have talked with the Russians or Chinese about using their currency for trade {preferably the yuan}. I would then lease then a naval base on the Straights of Hormuz for a hundred yuan or ruble a year for fifty years {or what ever terms they could get}.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 04:32 | 2858569 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Wishful thinking .... Iran is fucked .... as they should be .... The Russians and Chinese will stay out of it .... it's a lose lose situation for them .... and since they're losers .... that makes it a lose lose lose lose situation !

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 05:13 | 2858595 Wile-E-Coyote
Wile-E-Coyote's picture

I hope you are right, but the only reason NATO hasn't been bombing the shit out of Syria is Russia Sabre rattling. One othere thing to consider if Iran goes down who's to say they won't take the fight to the US navy, cornered rats and all that.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 06:11 | 2858622 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Hillary, after thumping her chests, has got to be having doubts about the Syrian rebels !  The bloodshed is heart wrenching .... but that's the terror the Muslims espouse !  Both sides are shit !  I think Asad at least has more tolerance for the religious minorities .... like the Christians !  This is a mess for the Russians, too !   I think contain it in Syria and let it bleed out is maybe the best we can hope for !  Asad will emerge as damaged goods .... and that's good .... but the Muslim Brotherhood isn't a pic nic ?  The loser is Iran ! Iran is a mess !  I think they are cornered rats .... and the US Navy presence will keep them cornered !  I'm totally encouraged !   Israel may not have to attack now ! Iranians will rise up and take their country back from the mad man !      Terror is unsustainable .... it's got to go !     The Russians have got to be perplexed at this mess .... and that's good !   Maybe China's indignation over the Senaku (?) island is a face saving way to stay out of the mess .... and play with their refurbished Russian aircraft carrier ?  I'm jazzed and the PMs are saber rattling ! And if kinder, gentler regimes emerge in Syria and Iran .... can we give poor little George Bush a little credit ? We stood up to the unsustainable .... now we deserve the peace dividends !

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 05:07 | 2858575 Monedas
Monedas's picture

The War On Terror, started by Bush, is a breath taking success .... Barack will try to take credit !  Errors were made .... but it's all coming together in a grand and glorious victory over those who think terror is a winning foreign policy !  The Terror States are collapsing like the twin towers .... what poetic justice .... enjoy !      Also, the hallmark of American wars is alive and well .... 100/1 + kill ratios !    Even when we lose interest in a conflict (Viet Nam) .... we always win the body count .... big time !  I hope I haven't hurt your feelings !     BTW .... Viet Nam is united .... and very much on our side .... I think we can declare victory, now ! Our victory in Viet Nam is great news .... we only got a truce in Korea .... but it was a marvelous win for the good guys, too !  Kind of makes you proud to be an American !   UNDERSTATEMENT / ON

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