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Forget Class-Warfare; It's Age-Warfare We Should Worry About

Tyler Durden's picture





 

As class-warfare implicitly breaks out - trumpeted by our political leaders - it seems that there is another, much more relevant, trend that is occurring that strikes at the heart of our nation. With Friday's jobs number still fresh in our minds, Citi's Steve Englander takes a look at one small slice of the demographics subject and found a rather concerning and little discussed fact. Employment-to-population ratios among older individuals have gone up in recent years, in contrast to the so-called prime-aged 25-54 cohort, where employment-to-population is much lower than earlier. It seems the real divide in this nation is not between rich and poor but old and young - as the 55-plus (and even more 65-plus) are forced to stay in the workplace as retirement remains a dream (thanks to ZIRP and Keynesianism's excess crises from boom-to-bust leave median wealth well down - even if the rich are 'ok').

 

Via Steve Englander of CitiFX,

Figure 1 shows the percentage point change in the employment to population for the three age groups since 2007.

 

One characteristic which is striking is that the employment-to-population ratios for older people based very quickly after the financial crisis hit. In fact, it barely moved in 2007-09 among the 55+ age group. The trend in the 25-54 age group is more sideways than up so far.  (As a side comment, it suggests that the drop in the overall employment-to-population probably has a modest demographic component since the lower participation rate of the elderly is being offset by the additional jobs they are finding.)

 

It is hard to tell what is driving this upturn in older worker participation. We suspect it is a combination of:

  1. pure demographics – older people are healthier than in the past;
  2. structural retirement issues – it is hard to retire at 65 (or younger) and beyond 80 when the gross national savings rate averages around 15% and the net national savings rate around 3% (and negative since Q4 2008!);
  3. the wealth effect – even if QE3 has propped up asset prices, personal wealth is still far off where it was at the beginning of 2008.

 

For the USD the increase in older people’s employment is probably a modest positive rather than a negative. Compare two situations:

  • a) early retirement and consumption out of wealth and;
  • b) later retirement and consumption out of production rather than wealth.

 

The imbalance between national consumption and production (often called absorption) is lower in the second case than the first. If the trend to spend out of income rather than wealth continues, the US current account balance would tend to fall. That said, the actual USD impact thus far is probably modest since the actual shifts are small. A sharper increase in participation rates among the elderly could contribute a stronger USD effect.

 

The second conclusion is that this may be another avenue by which QE weakens the USD. A big positive impact of QE is via the wealth affect because QE forces lower the discount factor that is applied to any stream of returns. If this pure wealth effect supports consumption because individuals who feel richer consume a portion of their wealth, we have exactly the opposite effect – more consumption but no additional production. This would increase external funding needs. Once could also argue that the lowering interest  rates also discourages the inflow of capital, so successful QE will very likely be a USD negative, even if the weaker USD is not the explicit intention of the Fed.(As a last concern, there is the dependence of this wealth on a low discount factor rather than faster topline growth, but we will leave this aside for now.)

 


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Wed, 10/10/2012 - 13:57 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
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And we would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for you meddling kids!

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:06 | Link to Comment Gene Parmesan
Gene Parmesan's picture

I still don't get what the issue is. It seems like a modest proposal to me.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:09 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

Age is a class. A class just like any other.

Anyway, as long as the proles are fighting amongst themselves, the owners are happy.

Now, carry on.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:17 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

We have known the solution since 1976...

P.A. System: Capricorn 15's. Born 2244. Enter the Carousel. This is the time of renewal.
[Crowd applauds]
P.A. System: Be strong and you will be renewed. Identify.
[Capricorn 15's show flashing crystals]

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xSnLU9nyFSA

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:17 | Link to Comment WALLST8MY8BALL
WALLST8MY8BALL's picture

We have a Runner!

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 19:04 | Link to Comment nufio
nufio's picture

the chart is % point increase/decrease. This looks like a statistical ploy to make a point. In absolute number the > 55 would not compare to the other tight range of 25-55.

The way i read it is that all jobs are disappearing except for the ones that need a lot of experience that is not seeing much change. 

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:19 | Link to Comment The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

The trend has another angle ... the older workers have better knowledge, skills, abilities, and work habits, and have been beaten down to the point where the unit costs for their labor (which used to be a key reason to kick the oldsters out of the workforce) are being driven down to levels competitive with the lesser skilled, poor work habit youngsters.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 17:17 | Link to Comment bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

Yes, over-55 labour does have better work habits and reliability ...

But we do need a bit of a nap every day to be in top form

Time for siesta, amigos, back to work shortly!

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 15:13 | Link to Comment Aegelis
Aegelis's picture

"You tell everybody. Listen to me, Hatcher. You've gotta tell them! Soylent Green is..."

 

http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/e9aa/

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 16:20 | Link to Comment LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture

 

 

They will find ways to get rid of the old people

Get Ready For Obamacare's Medical Rationing

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulhsieh/2012/10/03/get-ready-for-obamacares-medical-rationing/

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 17:22 | Link to Comment AGuy
AGuy's picture

"They will find ways to get rid of the old people"

Or perhaps they will find ways to enslave the younger people to pay for older peoples entitlements. Consider the median aging of  politicans, Few or none are under 30. Also consider which age group votes religiously (hint: older people) and which age group has the lowest voter turn out (hint: younger workers). Which age group has big lobbiest working for them (older workers: AARP, Big Pharma, Unions), Which big lobbiest groups are looking out for younger workers? (hint: None)

Medical Rationing? Lets take a look. Grandma has AARP and Big pharma looking out for her interests. On the other hand, Younger workers that can't afford health insurance, don't have any entitements, and don't have any lobbiest are more likely to be on the receiving end of rationing, not grandma . Put simply, the Old will keep getting older, and the young will die young!

 

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 17:03 | Link to Comment ali-ali-al-qomfri
ali-ali-al-qomfri's picture

the death panels will evolve...into...

Death Race 2000  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZLYEbkykCI

Thu, 10/11/2012 - 02:07 | Link to Comment JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Bra-fucking-vo...

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 17:44 | Link to Comment sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

The article's title is incorrect. The warfare is always economic. Age has nothing to do with it. To put it another way, if the lower ages were doing well and had lots of cash, they wouldn't give a crap what their elders were doing. But the younger generations are not and thus, fighting for the same mediocre jobs.

The fact that more older Americans are having to work beyond 65 is a symptom of a failed economy whereas people thought there was a "liberal" social safety net.

And now I await attacks from liberals on my comment and that is fine. I will stand my ground as I have in the past and my point will become more evident as as SS and Medicare become bankrupt. Social liberal programs are pyramid schemes and thus eventually always go bankrupt. You can give me all your emotional ethic points but facts are facts.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 20:18 | Link to Comment Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Us old folks can afford better rifles, too. SO watch yer ass.

FORWARD SOVIET!

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:13 | Link to Comment iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

We're going to continue passing the debt on to the next gen..  The least we could do is nullify all patents so they can "rebuild" and earn something in the process..

or..  nullify the debt..

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:15 | Link to Comment Gene Parmesan
Gene Parmesan's picture

Sorry - I think my 'modest proposal' comment may have been a little too subtle.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 18:06 | Link to Comment Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

We got it Mr. Swift.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:17 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Do you really need to "nullify" something that was created out of fraud and cannot be repaid?  

There are many successful families that came before you and yours, they want their rent (money for nothing), now pay up.

Turns out, humans are no smarter than yeast after all.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:34 | Link to Comment iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

I agree the whole thing is a ponzerific fraud.  But, all consumers are compliant in perpetuating it through participation (Thanks to the magic of Fractional Reserve Banking). And we have no choice, or alternative..

 

Nullifying all Patents (and I mean ALL of them)  is an equitable reset.. 

Thu, 10/11/2012 - 08:16 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

if you destroy the incentive to innovate there will be no innovation except the minimum driven by necessity

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 01:43 | Link to Comment iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

Necessity is the mother of all innovation.

 

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 18:39 | Link to Comment GAAPpreNixon
GAAPpreNixon's picture

Turns out humans are no smarter than yeast after all

Yep. Is that you, Giordano Bruno avatar Futilitist?

 

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 17:26 | Link to Comment GAAPpreNixon
GAAPpreNixon's picture

Those "meddling kids" not having jobs is the perfect storm for a population with the motive and energy to create a revolution. The fed REALLY stepped on their dork with this one. The 25-45 crowd MUST be employed or the safety of elite assets along with government backed structures like universities are compromised.

The fed, acting as the lackey of predatory capitalism (actually nanny state socialism for the elite - too big to fail bullshit) has effectively destoyed the positive motivations in the young born of belief in a meritocracy requiring advanced education, a home mortgage and submission to corporate "rules" of ethics free attitude towards predation. 

The young, their dreams of getting on the greed bandwagon fully dashed, now resolve to bring down a system that is anti-human (or simply anti-them). The positive belief in all the institutions that nurture the predatory and cruel system are so ingrained that it takes several years to remove them from the values of the young. BUT, the young, having been brainwashed for less time and having received nothing good from the system the older cohorts worship, will take the system by surprise with their synchronous rejection of it.

Once a young population is alienated from a system, the system falls, PERIOD. Hubris among the elite has, in the past, prevented timely action to avert a period of massive upheaval.

Bernanke has about a year or so to stop the presses, allow interest rates to rise, home prices to tank until they reach GAAP affordable levels of 2.5 times average annual NET income for average home total price and fund a massive war profiteering free renewable energy infrastucture public works project as big or bigger than the interstate highway building in the 1950s to save his and his elite friend's  ASS.

Are you listening, Mr. Bernanke? Or will it take your son's medical knowledge to explain to you that your foresight is somewhat impaired by having your head somewhere between your descending colon and rectum?

"But how is this legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime."

Frederic Bastiat, 1850

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 13:56 | Link to Comment RacerX
RacerX's picture

25-54 is a heck of a wide age range.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 13:59 | Link to Comment Alpo for Granny
Alpo for Granny's picture

Bring it you young whippersnappers! Don't think I haven't been stacking lead along with my canned delicasies!!

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 20:25 | Link to Comment americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

You rock Granny - BTW the word whippersnapper refers to the nearly universal behavior of two year old boys who go around continually snapping their little whippers. Just thought I would add to the dignity of this discussion.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:01 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Prime age for commercialism to capture their minds.

<Or is that 1-5?>

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:17 | Link to Comment Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

I was raised without TV from 1-5. Deep down in the depths of my mental structures, I know in comfort that there exists no mention of brands or corporations, or of desire to consume unnecessarily. My grandpa made sure of it.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:20 | Link to Comment The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

How did you turn into an adult who can write complete sentences without the benefit of Big Bird?

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:43 | Link to Comment aheady
aheady's picture

What happened after that?

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 15:11 | Link to Comment Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

@ Alarmist too.

I started reading the World Book by age 6, Encylopedia Britannica, Jules Verne, and all the classics that children tend to like. Moved on to Crichton after that - I love well-researched almost-real Scifi.

The writing skills came with hard work - taking notice of my own sentence strucutre, usage of certain words, etc. Essentially, I taught myself everything I know. As a late Gen-Xer / early Gen-Yer, there are no bounds to my appreciation for having been one of the last waves of children to grow up without any internet at all.

I know I'm not old enough to say it, but "kids these days..." hahahah.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 15:14 | Link to Comment RacerX
RacerX's picture

Might be showing my own age here, but I remember when Christmas stuff in the stores didnt' come out until after Thanksgiving.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 23:29 | Link to Comment goat
goat's picture

Verne Vinge is ths shiznit.  IMO the best Sci-Fi out there now.  "A Deepness in the Sky" and "A Fire Upon the Deep" will reward you immensely. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernor_Vinge 

 

Can I get a witness brothas and sistas?!?

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 20:43 | Link to Comment americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Good for you Skateboarder - and your grandpa. I'm probably your grandpa's age - didn't see a TV till was 15, grew up listening to radio and reading. Gotta admit though - some of those jingles stuck in the mind pretty well. I still wonder where the yellow went.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 13:56 | Link to Comment darteaus
darteaus's picture

Surely no politician would exploit the situation where a diverse working population is taxed at higher and higher rates to support a middle class lifestyle for an aged white population.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:05 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

The good news is that once the system cracks the purchasing value of the white hair's Social Security and Medicare, they still will not be healthy enough to deal with police batons in their face.  /sarc

Alan "The Maestro" Greenspan - "We can guarantee cash benefits as far out and at whatever size you like, but we cannot guarantee their purchasing power."

Promises, promises.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:34 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Yes, playing the "age card" for TPTB is not enough.  Let's have the "race card" as well.  Anyone want to counter with a comment on welfare now?

Wait.  Women live longer, but this doesn't fit any current political paradigm for "gender warfare".

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 17:53 | Link to Comment sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

'Surely no politician would exploit the situation where a diverse working population is taxed at higher and higher rates to support a middle class lifestyle for an aged white population."

 

You almost have it correct. You exploit a diverse population (working or not) and tax the middle class to higher earners to support the lower class. Statistics support this trend.

 

Now just imagine policies that take away welfare subsidies and force people to work, even at minimun wage, and work their way up to better economic conditions. Sure, some will fall through the cracks. But the vast majority would see great improvement. But that would require people to be independent and strong - a pure fantasy and certainly nothing either of the main parties really want.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 13:58 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Damn those demographics. Damn then to hell.

BTW is there an upper age limit to student loans? Cus I don't have the money or income (NINJA?) to retire and I have no marketable skills.

<More to the point, do I assume my student loans die with me?>

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:07 | Link to Comment -1Delta
-1Delta's picture

Speaking of demographics..... i am sure they will (1) get social security and (2) the are 100% in their 401ks buying equities today.....and i am sure grad school will fix our debt problem (like we need an another  accedemic bernake)

FED will buy student loans next i guess

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:17 | Link to Comment toady
toady's picture

I know, right?

These demographics don't reflect my reality. 300 55 year old plus people I used to work with have all been laid off in the last few years. Maybe I'm an outlier? I guess a lot of them are greeters at Walmart now.

More likely I'm just out of touch... I don't know many 24-54 year olds, even though I'm 48

Another point; this points at the boomer divide. All the 50+ people that are still working are boomers!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brj2UkUPjCI

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 17:27 | Link to Comment bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

That is one hilarious South Park clip you link there ... American English at its finest

They took our jobs! «  ... They turk arrr jaarbbs! ... »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brj2UkUPjCI

Thu, 10/11/2012 - 22:15 | Link to Comment MilleniumJane
MilleniumJane's picture

@ Toady:  I think you're right.  Personally, I am seeing some ageism against older people.  The ones who are 50+ and out of work are really having a rough time finding any employment.  At least 50% of the people who have applied for an open position at my work are over the age of 50.  This is a shit job too, in the warehouse, 8+ hours on your feet and very physical.  I can see why the Boomers are white knuckling the jobs they have and not leaving their current positions.  One Boomer woman I worked with applied for dozens of jobs over the course of 2 1/2 years before finding a position elsewhere.  What I choose to see in this article is that these are desperate times for everyone who are not in the top tiers of income level.  It doesn't matter if you're young and old.   

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:22 | Link to Comment The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

No, CD ... no upper limit.  But make sure you go to one of those cheap community colleges so you can pocket as much of your loans as possible.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 15:11 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Hell.....I need a place to live. I'm living on campus and going co-ed. :)

<Let's see how Mrs Cog feels about that.>

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 20:48 | Link to Comment americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Damned interesting point CD - I'm almost 72. wonder if I could get a student loan in cash, buy me some silver, ignore the demands for repayment, and then die on the bastards after living off my silver for a few more years. Think I'll check with Univ of Phoenix. Maybe enroll in a few advanced scatology courses.

 

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:00 | Link to Comment A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

25-54 no longer wish to participate in this ponzi scam.

Free range humans, bitchez..........

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:03 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

we could serve them up with some fava beans and a nice chianti but those old bastard are sort of chewy

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:11 | Link to Comment LouisDega
LouisDega's picture

I like pancakes.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:54 | Link to Comment Aegelis
Aegelis's picture

I like pancakes but belgium waffles are better.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:19 | Link to Comment ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

I don't know about you guys, but if the old man, a third generation truck driver at age 66 who keeps negotiating pay increases for his tenured ass at the expense of the guys behind him because he knows the game is rigged and exploits it, and because he outsmarts the younger guys and gets them to push him to represent the union at negotiations, if the old man wants to keep working and can hack it better than the younger guys can, more power to him. 

There is a problem in this nation, it's sociological, it has to do with watching what the other guy is doing instead of minding your own business.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:27 | Link to Comment toady
toady's picture

I know a couple guys like that. On top of the game, making good money, why retire when the deck is stacked in their favor? To let some youngsters have jobs? HA!

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 18:10 | Link to Comment toady
toady's picture

-1 on all my posts lately. I guess I officially have my first full-time hater.

I'm so proud!

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 18:25 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."- Winston Churchill

Just wait till you get two or three...lol. Ah yes, I remember my first just like it was yesterday. It was on a GW thread, a great place to find haters ;-)

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 20:34 | Link to Comment Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Gave you a green to even it out. Haters I don't mind but those who down arrow without a response are cowards.

Miffed:-)

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 17:34 | Link to Comment AGuy
AGuy's picture

"25-54 no longer wish to participate in this ponzi scam."

Wishing is one thing, ending or avoiding it is completely different. The deck is stacked against them.  Funny thing, Just who voted these clowns into office? Could it be that the people in the 25-54 had a hand in it? Americans got exactly the gov't they voted for! Let's face facts, 99% of americans are just plain short sighted and dumb, just like the politicians they voted for.

 

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 20:30 | Link to Comment A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Begging your pardon, but all one must do in order to effectively opt out is simply refuse to acquire debt. No debt equals no reason to punch a time clock for some corporation, thus promoting the agenda. If one simply worked hard for the first ten years of their lifetime while denying the urge to buy ishit, fancy cars and mcmansions on credit they could be paying cash for a significantly marked down piece of countryside upon which to reside and pursue a self sustainable lifestyle. The fact that there are evil fuckers in the world who constantly lie and manipulate in order to force people into servitude does not prohibit one from breaking the chains and taking the road less traveled. In fact it should serve as the catalyst for doing exactly this.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 22:11 | Link to Comment AGuy
AGuy's picture

"Begging your pardon, but all one must do in order to effectively opt out is simply refuse to acquire debt. No debt equals no reason to punch a time clock for some corporation, thus promoting the agenda."

I strongly disagree. I don't have any debt, never did. I live very frugal. I don't eat out, never go on vacations, never spend money on junk,. But my taxes go up, and the value of my currency (USD) goes down. PM's -- convert PMs to cash to buy property/equipment/supplies/tools/etc and there is a 30% capital gains tax. The system is set up to screw people, especially people trying to escape the system!

As a worker and saver I am forced to contribute to the follies of Gov't and the population. My freedoms are disappearing, my living costs are rising faster than my income. I've been saving for far longer than 20 years and now just have barely enough money to pursue a self-reliant lifestyle. But it does end there, Even if I go self-reliant, I still need money to pay for property taxes, and spend money on consumables and services I can't make myself (such as doctor, dentist, replacement parts, etc). I must deal with asswipes driving ATVs on my property, theives stealing, vandalism, Law enforcement snooping looking for drug crops, Bueacrats telling me what I can and can't do on my own land. and a ton of other crap. If you think all it takes is ten years to save money, and think you can live in paradise, your dream'n!

"significantly marked down piece of countryside"

Ha! The prices for Good Farm land that is not in the drought zone have been soaring. No such thing as marked down piece of countryside, unless it worthless crap!

 

 

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 22:59 | Link to Comment A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

My apologies for the oversimplification of a complex problem. It was assumed (by me) that were one working and saving and avoiding debt, that those financial resources would have been wisely invested in order to meet the goal of self sufficiency. Of course there are things such as taxes, incidentals, and unforeseen costs which can be incurred, and some of those are beyond our ability to mitigate. That being said, A person can easily purchase five to ten acres of land at a very reasonable price, in the country, with cash money and live quite comfortably in a modest home. Everyone has priorities in life and must figure out the best course of action for themselves, just remember, you don't need fifty acres of loam soil with majestic views and live water in order to make it. You and I share many of the same concerns, especially those assholes on ATV's and the other assholes that cannot understand concept of private property. I swear, around here I call hunting season trespassing season.  I have to make the choice everyday to either trade an hour of my life for a filthy $20 bill that has slightly more purchasing power than a stack of pancakes, or survive on five dollars working less, or at a job I enjoy. Life is largely about tradeoffs, and as my wife says, we always have choices but sometimes we don't like the choices we have.

Thu, 10/11/2012 - 01:50 | Link to Comment AGuy
AGuy's picture

", you don't need fifty acres of loam soil with majestic views and live water in order to make it."

Perhaps, but one must consider if someone like Jim Varney's character (Ernest) moves next door. I rather locate to a area with ten fifty acre lots, than 100 five acre plots. Surely as crime  gets bad in the cities and the suburbs, yuppies with money, but with no common sense will head for rural parts. mostly locating in areas with small lots.

 I also need abundant wood lot for sustainable harvesting (firewood and lumber), and a sufficent tree buffer from the road so drifters\undesirables can't see my home and outbuildings from the road (as they are unlikely to come to loot what they cannot see). I also dont want someone to be able to drive a pickup truck right up to my doorstep in 20 seconds and not leave me enough time to ready myself for a home invasion in the middle of the night. I also want sufficient land for livestock\poultry and I also want to put in fruit tree groves (Apples, Peaches, Pears, Cherries). Perhaps nuts as well. While I don't plan to do this all at once. I rather purchase a sizable property that I can transform over time. I also want to avoid northern or extreme southern areas. I am by no means an expert farmer, and farming in northern regions can be a problem due to the shorter growing seasons, late spring frosts and early fall frosts. I rather avoid risks if I need to be completely self-reliant for food. I also perfer to avoid regions where good doctors are hard to find or if the nearest hospital is a 2 hour drive away, Or where snowfall is so heavy the roads are blocked for a week or more (in case of medical emergency). One also need to grow more than a full years worth of crops to accomidate a crop lost (drought, pests, too much rain, etc). I can't see doing this with 10 or even 20 acres.

 If it wasn't for the housing bubble, land prices would have been considerable lower everywhere. Cheap and loose credit has made it possible for nearly anyone capable of signing their name to purchase property at extremely overvalved prices (At least temporarly until they default). Of course during the bubble, builders starting buying rural land and putting in huge housing developments (many which have never been completed or remain mostly empty). Commerical Real estate followed the housing developments building fast food, strip malls and other retail stores in antcipation of increased populations that never really came. Now all that is all slowly collapsing and the areas are being abandoned, but no one is coming to clean up the mess left. Nor will prices fall with the Fed running the printing presses 7/24/365 and buying MBS to prop up property prices. Eventually the system will collapse and I prefer to be very self-reliant to avoid being subjugated to deep poverty as the collaps unfolds.

"financial resources would have been wisely invested in order to meet the goal of self sufficiency."

That has been extemely difficult. For the past 15 years interest rates on quality bonds have been below the real rate of inflation, The Fed also been blowing bubbles which created huge boom busts. In order to avoid getting murdered during the Bust it was necessary to move to cash way before the bust happened. Its was not possible to time the market with enough precision to ride the market during the bubble without considerable risks of losing princpal when the bust finally did occur. I've largely remained a short term investor, not remaining in any investment more than a few months to avoid risking Hard earned Principle. Plus there are capital gains taxes on most investments. The only long term investment I have is in Physical PMs, held to make sure I have money to pay for property taxes and critical needs to be used after the dollar becomes worthless. Then there was also money given for bailouts for family that fell into trouble, and which I still provide some financial assistance to this day.

 

 

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:03 | Link to Comment alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

perhaps more worrisome is the fact that Americans can't help but to view damn near everything in terms of "warfare".

a society that is so violent that it can't even recognize violence is not a place worth salvaging.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:03 | Link to Comment American Dreams
American Dreams's picture

Off Topic here but..  Does anyone remember the article that detailed a comex to London fix overnight trade strat.  I remember it being very good and have searched the archive but can't seem to come across the damn thing. 

AD

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:04 | Link to Comment WALLST8MY8BALL
WALLST8MY8BALL's picture

All we need do is shut the Country Kitchen Buffet!

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/154174/get-off-the-streets

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:05 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

This is a world wide phenomenon and will all be taken care of in the upcoming war.Those pesky young able bodied youths will be put to work slaughtering each other for king and country. 

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:23 | Link to Comment toady
toady's picture

Boomers win again!

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 15:05 | Link to Comment SmokyMountainDropout
SmokyMountainDropout's picture

Of course boomers win again.  We are smarter by a multitude of degrees than those younger than us.  We are not sheeple.  We have prepared.  24 acres, hardwoods for firewood, 1000 cubic foot per second water flow, an acre of corn, potato(e)s up the ass, onions, garlic, precious metals, ammo and family to care for.  Fuck you all bitchez.  Especially Obama MORONS.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:05 | Link to Comment Inthemix96
Inthemix96's picture

Age warfare?

Why the fuck is henry kissenger going around expuling his zionist ideas at the fucking beyond dead age he is then?

Or how about prince phil the greek over here in England?

Did you know phil the greek wants to come back here on earth when his long overdue time has come as a disease that mankind cannot cure?  This blue blood said that this would be his greatest gift to humanity, to stop the breeding of the non-blue bloods.  And to wipe out a great swathe of us who are here now?

This is what these over privilaged, by-gone era has beens think of you and I.  We have no relevance to the powers that be, just look at the fucking in-bred bastards that over see my country.  And these dispicable excuses of a human skin believe that the likes of me should bow down and supply them with the fruits of our labour while at the same time worshiping them for the over indulgent privaledge that they have become.

Seriously, I am no anarchist, (I think), but you really have to see to believe the way some folk over here treat these filthy bastards as some type of deity????

Bring this fucker down. 

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 18:02 | Link to Comment sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

People that talk of Zionist are truly funny. Recently on another website an Anti Zionist posted a message about how the central banks and planners (Zionist of course) were unfairly charging interest on loans which should be free of interest. I agree with him that central banks and planners are a problem but the anti zionist comment just makes you look stupid and weak. Example below.

 

I pointed out that in Islamic or Muslim countries, they charge interest rates for loans domestically for use of their fiat currency. So I guess that those anti zionist were really zionists. No reply of course when you bring out facts and logic.

 

Money and economics has no racial bias. I don't care what color or sex or whatever you are. If I loan you money, then it will cost you. I certainly don't see these same anti zionist liberals doing free things for me or anyone else.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 18:16 | Link to Comment toady
toady's picture

Do the anti zionist conservatives do free things for anybody else?

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:06 | Link to Comment q99x2
q99x2's picture

Tis the economic minded that hasten to conclusions. The real reson is that the old fucks can't move in with their feeloading children but the kids can and have returned to the nest and put their poor parents back to work. Not a one of them worth their weight in salt.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:18 | Link to Comment CommunityStandard
CommunityStandard's picture

Allow me to disprove you.  I'm 29, left home at 18, couldn't afford college so don't have a degree, but still managed to find a good job, work hard, and make a decent living.  I have no debt and am saving each month in PMs.  I'm in a great relationship with someone whose family has a farm so we have a backup plan if it takes too long for us to prepare ourselves.

This is compared to my parents, in their 50s, who have debt debt debt.  Mortgage, line of credit, credit cards, and NO retirement savings.  They vote Republican, like to consider themselves part of the beaten down middle class, but are going to rely on government programs for the rest of their lives.  I know I'm going to step in and help them eventually, but I'm not looking forward to assisting with all their debt.

So sorry, I'd like to think at least one is "worth their weight in salt."  Stop blaming the kids and look at yourselves.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:47 | Link to Comment TraitorsHang
TraitorsHang's picture

Man, you just described me, as well as yourself.

I'm not even 30, and am already helping my parents, who've never been disciplined enough to save their spare change, let alone save silver or gold. Every ounce I've given them has been sold within 2 months of having it.
The worst part of it, is that they (and their friends) think their age implies some sort of superior knowledge. As if to say, "you're too young to possibly know what you're talking about."

I once fixed a computer for my dad's friend. While I was doing it, they were joking about how neither of them had any savings, but it was ok because their houses were making them $5000 per week that they could re-fi into their credit cards. My dad joking said "My son is my retirement plan" thinking it was real fucking funny.
Yeah, you dumb shit... you and every other fat ass your age had/has the same idea.

Don't bail them out, man. They handed us this mess because they were were too busy being adult babies to fix it. It's going to stop with us. And they refused to help themselves. Let them eat alpo.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 16:02 | Link to Comment yabyum
yabyum's picture

Traitor, Good for you, but for everyone of you there are twenty basement dwelling, pajama wearing french lit majors. They all live with mom and dad who are trying to change the locks!

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:11 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Story on CNBC this afternoon about Darden and others hiring more part-timers, 30 hours per week and under, to avoid having to provide any benefits.

Parasitism advances.

 

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:55 | Link to Comment roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

very old news.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:13 | Link to Comment Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

WAHOOOO! I'm young...young I tell ya! 54 years, 'n still not a geezer[US variety].

Eat the old. HA-HAA!

Help me with this truss, would you honey...

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:26 | Link to Comment The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

The Dead Collector: Bring out yer dead. 
[a man puts a body on the cart
Large Man with Dead Body: Here's one. 
The Dead Collector: That'll be ninepence. 
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I'm not dead. 
The Dead Collector: What? 
Large Man with Dead Body: Nothing. There's your ninepence. 
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I'm not dead. 
The Dead Collector: 'Ere, he says he's not dead. 
Large Man with Dead Body: Yes he is. 
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I'm not. 
The Dead Collector: He isn't. 
Large Man with Dead Body: Well, he will be soon, he's very ill. 
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I'm getting better. 
Large Man with Dead Body: No you're not, you'll be stone dead in a moment. 
The Dead Collector: Well, I can't take him like that. It's against regulations. 
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I don't want to go on the cart. 
Large Man with Dead Body: Oh, don't be such a baby. 
The Dead Collector: I can't take him. 
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I feel fine. 
Large Man with Dead Body: Oh, do me a favor. 
The Dead Collector: I can't. 
Large Man with Dead Body: Well, can you hang around for a couple of minutes? He won't be long. 
The Dead Collector: I promised I'd be at the Robinsons'. They've lost nine today. 
Large Man with Dead Body: Well, when's your next round? 
The Dead Collector: Thursday. 
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I think I'll go for a walk. 
Large Man with Dead Body: You're not fooling anyone, you know. Isn't there anything you could do? 
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I feel happy. I feel happy. 
[the Dead Collector glances up and down the street furtively, then silences the Body with his a whack of his club
Large Man with Dead Body: Ah, thank you very much. 
The Dead Collector: Not at all. See you on Thursday. 
Large Man with Dead Body: Right. 

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:43 | Link to Comment BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

Holy shit, that's a lot of hyperlinks.

That post must have taken forever to format, I applaud your dedication to the details.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:14 | Link to Comment Stud Duck
Stud Duck's picture

Age and treachery alway triumps youth and enthusiasiam!

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:33 | Link to Comment toady
toady's picture

That was one of my old mans favorite sayings before he died.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:16 | Link to Comment blu
blu's picture

"It seems the real divide in this nation is not between rich and poor but old and young"

... said the banker from his corner office while the 19yo intern was giving him a blow-job.

Who the fuck is he kidding? The corrupt lying nest-feathering soul-devouring fuck.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 15:53 | Link to Comment blu
blu's picture

Oh no look I got junked for slandering the banking class. Well guess what Sparky I've done a lot worse than slander them:

http://madscienceunlimited.com/fiction/aTearForTheSinner.html

Cry me a river. Bitchez.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:19 | Link to Comment wagthetails
wagthetails's picture

and that is what you call a lost generation.  the boomers just mass aborted their kids.  no job, and a massive debt tab.  Guess how this ends in 10-15 years when demographics (voters) even out.  yup, those kids will be cutting medicare and Social security bills for a generation that nearly (hopefully, only nearly) brought down this country. So make sure the 55+ holds onto their cash, guns and diapers...you'll be on your own. 

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 18:30 | Link to Comment WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

You may not have 10-15 yrs. I witnessed numerous jets today spraying chemtrails for 5 hrs. in a crosshatch pattern. Would this be a normal maneuver? I don't think so. Hmmmm, when was big pharma indemnified for vaccines? 2003? Pandemic on the horizon? 

 

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:26 | Link to Comment Dull Which
Dull Which's picture

When the French proposed raising the retirement age a couple of years back, the students rioted - no change in France I hear you say. Their beef was that the old folk were staying employed longer, reducing natural "attrition" and labour market liquidity. ie, it'd be harder for the students to get jobs. So in true french stylee they took to the streets and it all kicked off

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:31 | Link to Comment max2205
max2205's picture

If Ben didn't ZIRP us to death...a lot of those 55 - 70's would have retired

 

Fucking idiot

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:31 | Link to Comment larz
larz's picture

senior power!!!!!!!!

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:48 | Link to Comment Aegelis
Aegelis's picture

Since America doesn't give respect to their elders, perhaps now it will be seen as earned.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:58 | Link to Comment TraitorsHang
TraitorsHang's picture

Considering the generation that raised mine, and the state the place was in when my generation got to it?

Why do the old deserve respect? For being old?
There is nothing more disgusting than talking politics with someone who is 55+ and their only concern is "will they keep paying the social security benefits?".

Find me something in that worth respecting.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 15:17 | Link to Comment Aegelis
Aegelis's picture

You've proven my point, but will leave someone in that age bracket to answer.  I have another 30 some years to go until I reach it.  In many cultures, such as Native American groups, elders are seen as a source of wisdom (if not for anything else) for their experience.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 16:30 | Link to Comment Metalredneck
Metalredneck's picture

Welcome to Generation Screwed.  We get to pay for the Me generation.  I just hope my kids have a chance, but it is not looking good.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 18:33 | Link to Comment WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Perhaps you're choosing the wrong company to keep. I'd be willing to bet there's a few 55+ that happen to park right here, and for the same reasons as you. We're all getting a poke in the whiskers.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:33 | Link to Comment ian807
ian807's picture

It will be SPUN as age warfare, but it's just class warfare. The wealthy are manipulating the media to make the young hate and fight the old, so they won't notice those enormously wealthy folks behind the curtain. Just like they're doing with conservatives and liberals. Just like they're doing with Republicans and Democrats. It's all a sucker's game for the rubes.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 19:02 | Link to Comment Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Divide and conquer.

People have already been divided by class, occupation, political 'party', sex, race, religion... Whats a few more divisions, to really keep people fighting amongst one another?

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:35 | Link to Comment ScotlandTheBrave
ScotlandTheBrave's picture

Max2205 nails it.  My parents have been ZIRPed to death.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 16:03 | Link to Comment BlackholeDivestment
BlackholeDivestment's picture

This is the Moloch 666 Sirius standard of care. The willfull idiot parents Vote 2 Party, shop at the Great Wal Mart of China and listen to Jamie Dimon today, at the CFR, claiming America has the moral high ground, like he's doing (g)ods work and his tongue is not full of shit. LMAO. http://www.c-span.org/Events/JPMorgan-Chase-CEO-Discusses-Global-Economy/10737434839/

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtgsEKuc5O4&feature=related

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:42 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

"Age warfare" is just the political class sniffing around for a wedge issue.  Bottom line:  the young will keep contributing to SS, and SS will buy less and less for the old.  We're all going down.  TPTB want more, but they'll keep it fair, while the 99% argues amongst themselves.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:43 | Link to Comment indianajohns04
indianajohns04's picture

nice message from the PA unemployment office today in my buddy's email.......

 

The UC program has been experiencing higher than normal claim volume for the past several weeks. As a result of this dramatic increase, the telephone line capacity in our UC service centers has been unable to handle incoming calls as efficiently as we would like. We are continually monitoring our systems in order to ensure that all services are operating properly and effectively. However, some callers have experienced busy signals for significant periods of time.    Before calling the service center to check on the status of a benefit payment or to see if the funds have been deposited to your debit card or bank account, we encourage you to use the Internet (www.uc.pa.gov) or call PAT (Pennsylvania Teleclaims, 888-255-4728) to learn if the payment has been issued. You can also use the Internet and PAT to file your biweekly claim and to know when to file your next biweekly claim for benefits. 7.8% ! 

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:49 | Link to Comment Village Smithy
Village Smithy's picture

I like anecdotal evidence, thanks. When our government is spending a trillion dollars per year more than it is taking in, no matter what the un-employment rate is, it's irrelevant.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:44 | Link to Comment Village Smithy
Village Smithy's picture

"(thanks to ZIRP and Keynesianism's excess crises from boom-to-bust leave median wealth well down - even if the rich are 'ok')." This is an important statement. These two conditions have made it very difficult for even the most prudent and conservative people to look after themselves, ie. save for a retirement. If a person is willing to accept a steady but modest return on their investments then the system should provide it.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 16:04 | Link to Comment SilverMoneyBags
SilverMoneyBags's picture

I highly disagree. The current day conditions were caused by 40+ years of recklessness. This is an age war because the boomers won't stop until they bankrupt everyone. They are the ones who filled these agencies, they are the ones who cast the votes.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 16:12 | Link to Comment LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture

 

 

Young people voted in obama...

Obama Has Now Increased Debt More than All Presidents from George Washington Through George H.W. Bush Combined

Furthermore when you grow up you will figure out that what they say they will do and what they actually do when in office turns out often times to be untrue. 

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 17:11 | Link to Comment ian807
ian807's picture

Oh, and that ambient wealth of infrastructure like computers, the internet, medical advances, buildings, roads, piplines, oil platforms and stock generated money floating around was largely created by:

1) Young whiz kids on facebook

2) Baby boomers.

Hint. It's not number 1.

Oooooh. It's so sad you're not getting the whole world's wealth handed to you, gratis, because you're just all so wonderful and special that you deserve it. Poor babies! 

 

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 18:37 | Link to Comment WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

40 yrs huh? How many boomers were even able to vote 40 yrs ago? Grow the fuck up & kwitcher bitchin.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:44 | Link to Comment Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

and this doesnt take into account the public employee scam of "retiring" and getting a pension and being rehired for the same job 48 hours later !

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 16:36 | Link to Comment Metalredneck
Metalredneck's picture

You got something against "Private Consultants?"

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 14:55 | Link to Comment onebir
onebir's picture

"The imbalance between national consumption and production (often called absorption) is lower in the second case than the first. If the trend to spend out of income rather than wealth continues, the US current account balance would tend to fall."

Sloppy ceteris paribus thinking: the extra displaced youth in the second case will consume out of deficit-funded transfers, offsetting the $ positive effects via absorbtion.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 15:37 | Link to Comment icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

Chart needs a simple caption: Your elders sold you out

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 16:39 | Link to Comment Metalredneck
Metalredneck's picture

I miss these guys...

http://youtu.be/xc-03-5_-Bg

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 18:39 | Link to Comment WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

How about your gubmnt?

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 15:40 | Link to Comment Olympia
Olympia's picture

World War III - The First Private War in History

 

Those who won all battles shall lose the war.

Bilderberg Group and the crimes against humanity.

 

This is how things work in all countries. Whatever used to belong to their people, today it belongs to the multinational companies of the Club. People were betrayed by their given leaderships and they lost everything. Capitals and markets were handed to the Club bosses. If you understand what is going on in Greece, you can understand what is going on in Britain, France, and Germany etc..

 

http://eamb-ydrohoos.blogspot.com/2012/02/world-war-iii.html

 

Authored by PANAGIOTIS TRAIANOU

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 20:54 | Link to Comment toomanyfakecons...
toomanyfakeconservatives's picture

That's a great article, which ends with the call for MASS ARRESTS and trials for the guilty... http://tinyurl.com/cd5cyjo/

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 16:08 | Link to Comment SilverMoneyBags
SilverMoneyBags's picture

"(thanks to ZIRP and Keynesianism's excess crises from boom-to-bust leave median wealth well down - even if the rich are 'ok')."

How can you blame this on ZIRP? ZIRP is a decade old and the 60+ crowd had their entire lives to save and invest in the biggest golden era of prosperity this nation has ever seen. They bankrupted their households, their communities, and their country. Thes are the people who have held power positions for the past 15-20 years. The boomers won't stop until they bankrupt everyone in the world. Do you really think they care what happens to you in 15 or 20 years? They will all be dead, laughing in their graves.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 18:15 | Link to Comment Shankopotomus
Shankopotomus's picture

I'm 60.  Do you really think I don't/won't care what happens to my three daughters aged 27, 28, and 30 in 15 or 20 years? By the way everyone whose 60+ aren't in their graves in 15 or 20 years after they reach that age either, so you didn't  get that part of your idiotic statement right either. 

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 18:41 | Link to Comment WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

wah wah wah---------MOMMIE

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 16:13 | Link to Comment pitz
pitz's picture

Maybe some of the unemployed young, especially those with skills, are making the rational decision not to work.  I know the older crowd likes to beg scientists who can't find jobs (blame the H-1B) to go into non-Science fields, but is it rational to work for nothing? 

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 17:40 | Link to Comment elderstew
elderstew's picture

Just what this age enabled political constituency claim as their entitlement is apparent in their moniker, "the greatest generation".   Consider what this implies. That they have greater achievements than what can be expected of their descendants? That they are entitled to greater rewards than their children because of this? Quite a novelty, a generation putting itself before its own children.

An obvious dead end. Yes, politically greater now. Until that is, their "not greatest" children get clued in that their elders, parents, or whatever the gonadal claim to fame may be, are a selfish lot and will sell out the birthright of their descendants in exchange for small comforts to prolong their own decades long death rattle.

Through the artifice of debt, your so-called elders have auctioned off and consumed what was due to you. It couldn't happen in nature, but it can happen in a debt based money system. Your elders consume, you pay. 

Their actions are a politically enabled maladapation. An anomoly that will be be corrected by natural events in due course. However, don't look for justice in this, as you won't find it. As always, nature plays for keeps, has no favorites, hears no arguments and has no timetable.

 

 

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 17:25 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

I'd suggest experience is a factor so those who are proven & in established jobs keep them while those unproven don't get hired or get fired to down-size even if it's temporary.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 17:46 | Link to Comment Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Home Depot typifies this employment dilemna.  All those grey-haired folks really know their stuff.   They can't find any young folks who know a shovel from a welder. 

 

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 18:06 | Link to Comment robnume
robnume's picture

This guy is all over the place. I cannot figure what type of essay this is supposed to be: persuasive, argumentative, informative etc. There is, from what I can glean, both class and age warfare going on in this country. After all, it is the strategy of the elites - always has been, because it works!!! - to divide and conquer. Keep the young and old and the middle class and poorer classes at odds with one another, not letting these groups know that they have every reason in the world to stick together. People, get your asses off of the couch, turn off the idiot box and do what a responsible citizen does; educate yourselves. Learn critical thinking skills. Find out how to disseminate real (true) information versus the propaganda - and there's a hell of a lot of propagandists writing and/or talking garbage out there - of the mainstream media talking heads and pundits. Remember, the government is NOT GOING TO EDUCATE YOU, POLITICALLY!!!! It is not in their interest to do so. The late, great author Ray Bradbury, whom I had the pleasure to know, once gave me the advice as a budding author, to READ EVERYTHING and EVERYONE. If you won't take responsibilty for your own mind all I can say is, "Jump Fuckers, Jump".

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 18:50 | Link to Comment elderstew
elderstew's picture

Oh, come on now. There's always a lot more that could have been boiled into the released numbers, than what was released, eh. Only 7.8% percent unemployed, a veritable surplus of willing stooges!  Pick your numbers mate, but don't believe any number that you didn't calculate yourself.

 

 

 

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 18:52 | Link to Comment elderstew
elderstew's picture

delete dupe...

 

 

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 21:02 | Link to Comment americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Today's headline thought from Jesse's Cafe Americain "When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people...A test of a people is how it behaves toward the old. It is easy to love children. Even tyrants and dictators make a point of being fond of children. But the affection and care for the old, the incurable, and the helpless are the true gold mines of a culture.” Abraham Joshua Heschel

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 22:16 | Link to Comment ZFiNX
ZFiNX's picture

I agree it is a battle of the generations.

Either the old will kill the young through war.

OR the young will kill the old through neglect.

The old won't retire for that fear.

But if the old won >50%, we wouldn't have survived as a species.

Wed, 10/10/2012 - 23:41 | Link to Comment Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

There is no doubt that the younger you are, the more you are being lied to, cheated and robbed by the political system you were born into, since that is a pyramid system, Ponzi scheme, and the younger you are, the later you were able to join, and therefore, the worse your position must be!  Indeed, at some point, due to age in an ever more broad-based way than class, the ONLY solution is some revolution. At some point, it is IMPOSSIBLE for the social pryamid system to be "reformed" enough ...

I point out this is the line of descendent in a series of comparisons:

Racism is trivial compared to sexism.

Sexism is trivial compared to ageism.

Speciesism is trivial compared to ageism.

All of the established prejudices that screw disadvantaged human groups are still almost nothing compared to how human prejudice is screwing the natural world. The ways we treat other species of life is worse than the ways we treat each other, no matter how extremely bad the ways we treat each other are. Indeed, there is a terrible feedback loop that the worse we treat each other, then the worse we treat nature. Both ageism and speciesism combined indicate that the options for the future are dismal cubed! The world is controlled by the old rich people, who are the best at being dishonest, and backing that up with violence, for their own short-term advantage. Most of the costs and consequences of maximizing the short-term profts are deferred to future generations to pay for. The runaway strip mining of the planet Earth, to enable the old, rich people to party, will be paid for by that system collapsing on the future generations. Of course, the old rich people that dominate the planet NOW were selected to fill that role precisely because they do not really care about that too much.

 

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!