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China, China, Everywhere; But Not A Drop Of QE To Drink

Tyler Durden's picture


With this evening's news that Japan and the USA are 'backing down' from a planned 'joint security drill' to recapture a remote 'uninhabited' island in Okinawa province (apparently amid concerns of backlash from Beijing); and chatter of the PBoC gauging demand for reverse repos (instead of flooding us with newly minted Yuan which everyone believes is just the remedy), it seems very clear who the world's super-power is (militarily and economically). Furthermore, as The Diplomat explains, multi-faceted challenges to the new leadership — possible economic stagnation, social unrest, elite disunity, and a revival of pro-democracy forces — will make it more distracted and less politically capable to maintain discipline on numerous actors now involved in China's foreign policy.  The effects of such accumulated internal woes, while not necessarily aggressive, are certain to be an erratic pattern of behavior that both worries and puzzles China's neighbors and the rest of the international community.

"Be careful what you wish for.  A weaker China could nevertheless
inflict serious damage to the world order."

On China's Political Transition (via Damien Ma's interview with Foreign Affairs Magazine):


Via Minxin Pei of The Diplomat: Sorry World, What Happens In Beijing, WON'T Stay In Beijing

One of the questions on the minds of most China watchers these days is how Beijing will behave externally when it faces a far more difficult internal environmentOf the well-recognized challenges China will encounter in the coming years are its deteriorating economic dynamism, a structure of decision-making with diffused power and uncertain authority, rising nationalism, growing demand for political reform, and widespread popular disenchantment with the status quo.


In totality, these internal difficulties will reduce the resources available to maintain and expand China's influence around the world, constrain the Chinese military's ability to accelerate its modernization, and make Chinese leaders more reluctant to assume greater international or regional responsibilities.  Most worryingly, erratic behavior driven by a mixture of lack of leadership experience and political security will most likely mark Beijing's foreign policy conduct in the coming years.


Given the high profile China has assumed in projecting its economic influence around the world, particularly in resource-rich developing countries, one might dismiss as fanciful the suggestion that looming economic hardships at home may severely limit Chinese capacity for establishing itself as an economic alternative to the West.  But a closer look at how China has been funding its investments in Africa, Central Asia, and Latin America would show that such investments are not only expensive, but also very risky.   The grants and concessionary loans China has made to various countries to gain their goodwill have totaled at least tens of billions of dollars (these are reported figures; nobody knows the real amount).  They were made when China enjoyed double-digit growth and had ample cash to throw around.


But as the Chinese economy decelerates and less money flows into Beijing's coffers, the Chinese government will obviously have less funds to sustain such economic and diplomatic offensives.  Politically, continuing a lavish foreign aid program when its own people are struggling will surely arouse fierce criticisms from the public.  Not too long ago, the Chinese Foreign Ministry was denounced bitterly when it was revealed that China donated safe school buses to Macedonia when its own schoolchildren have to ride in unsafe vehicles.


China's risky foray into developing countries will face another hurdle.  Most of the big-ticket projects China has supported in these countries are funded by loans from China's state-owned banks.  Based on previous experience, many of these projects are likely to fail.  As Chinese banks are themselves expected to struggle to deal with a wave of non-performing loans at home, the last thing they want to do is to keep funding these high-risk, low-return projects abroad.  So it is a foregone conclusion that a weaker China at home means a less influential China abroad.


Another obvious casualty is China's much-vaunted campaign to project its "soft power."  Internally called "dawaixuan" (big external propaganda), this campaign has led to a huge expansion of official Chinese media presence around the world.  Xinhua, for example, has launched its English-language television news service.  The nationalist tabloid, Global Times, has added an English edition.  The official China Daily has regularly placed high-priced full-page ads in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and The Washington Post.  Judging by the worsening of Chinese image around the world, this campaign has been a flop.  When Beijing's propaganda chiefs get their new austerity budgets in a year or two, it is hard to imagine they will decide to throw good money after bad.


China's waning economic, cultural, and diplomatic influence caused by dwindling financial resources will not be the only victim of its internal difficulties.  The People's Liberation Army, which has enjoyed double-digit growth in its budget for nearly two decades, will probably have to fight harder for its share of a smaller pie.  The pace of Chinese military modernization could slow down.  To Chinese neighbors, this development will reduce their anxieties.  Washington, of course, might also breathe a sigh of relief.  However, such an outcome is by no means certain.  It is conceivable that the PLA may cite the American "pivot," and territorial disputes with Japan, the Philippines, and Vietnam, to push for more defense spending.  Should the PLA succeeds in making its case, it will have to pay a high price because the Chinese military will be competing with other equally powerful political interests, such as state-owned enterprises, the bureaucracy, and local governments, for dwindling budgetary outlays.


Some Western observers may welcome such mounting woes inside China since they will diminish Chinese influence and reduce the "China threat."  But be careful what you wish for.  A weaker China could nevertheless inflict serious damage to the world order.


One obvious casualty of China's internal weakness will be Beijing's reluctance to play a more constructive role in global and regional affairs.  Cynics might say that Chinese leaders, even when times were good, talked more than they actually delivered.  While some of such criticisms were true, a more objective assessment may show that Beijing has, on occasion, played a more positive role than it has received credit for, such as during the East Asian financial crisis in 1997-98 and in its push for regional free trade.  Even on the Korean Peninsula, it has made Pyongyang behave less belligerently since early 2011 (after failing to do so in 2010).


On Iran and Libya, China has also chosen not to be a spoiler.  On global climate talks, Beijing's evolving negotiating positions have also improved considerably.  However, even China's modest contributions to the world order could be at risk if its leaders, so distracted by domestic crises, decide not to make any contributions at all.


A piece of conventional wisdom about a weaker China is that it will be more belligerent because its leaders will have the incentives to divert domestic attention with appeals to nationalism and a more aggressive foreign policy. This is a simplistic understanding of how Beijing behaves.  To be sure, such temptations do exist, and one can expect China's new leaders, hobbled by inexperience and lack of political capital, to pander to nationalist sentiments.  But Chinese leaders are no fools.  Talking tough is one thing, but acting tough is another.   When we examine Chinese foreign policy behavior in the last sixty years, we will find that Beijing, for all its bombastic rhetoric, actually has picked its fights carefully.  Acutely aware of their own limited military capabilities, Chinese leaders have avoided getting into fights they would be sure to lose.


If we apply this insight to speculating about Chinese external conduct in the coming years, the only thing we are certain about is uncertainty.  The confidence derived from a strong economy and relative domestic stability will be gone, and so will be the self-imposed restraints on jingoistic rhetoric.  Multi-faceted challenges to the new leadership — possible economic stagnation, social unrest, elite disunity, and a revival of pro-democracy forces — will make it more distracted and less politically capable to maintain discipline on numerous actors now involved in China's foreign policy.  The effects of such accumulated internal woes, while not necessarily aggressive, are certain to be an erratic pattern of behavior that both worries and puzzles China's neighbors and the rest of the international community.


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Sun, 10/21/2012 - 21:54 | 2908730 Bear
Bear's picture

We are still the world's super power ... however we are led by a less than super power


I cannot believe how stupid we were to announce we were going to have joint exercises with the Japanese by descending on a south China Sea island ... and then how really, really stupid we were to call them off. I find it very hard to believe they know what they are doing in Washington.


Sun, 10/21/2012 - 22:43 | 2908801 markmotive
markmotive's picture

All your base are belong to China

Marc Faber vs. Jim Rogers on China & Equities
Sun, 10/21/2012 - 22:51 | 2908813 3rdgrader
3rdgrader's picture

To protect and serve the criminal theives that swim in an ocean of cash that they steal out of the peoples pockets daily with their printing press, or are you too stupid to comprehend that?

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 01:59 | 2908954 Richard Chesler
Richard Chesler's picture

Damage to the current world order of thieving bankers and corrupt political lackeys is exactly what is needed.

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 02:43 | 2908964 Popo
Popo's picture

Anyone who thinks war isn't coming understands neither history nor the link between economics and war.

The reason the war games were canceled was a sudden awareness in Washington regarding just how badly certain forces in China want (or need) a war.

When it comes to casus bellae they'll pretty much take whatever they can get right now.

What should be noted however, is that certain forces within the US are like minded and eager to get the party started.

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 07:02 | 2909001 turbosuperman
turbosuperman's picture

"So I mean look, in my view we’re all doomed. But, maybe if you keep your gold in a safe place you’re doomed later than other people who have no gold and only paper money and government bonds."


China can go f*ck itself.  It's like the wannabe Soviet Union.  America's nuclear arsenal will do what it needs to do when our oil imports everyday stop. 

If you want to know who's in charge, go look at trade deficits.  Keep taking our IOUs, though.  We'll pay you back; we promise.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 02:04 | 2911901 Half_A_Billion_...
Half_A_Billion_Hollow_Points's picture

hard to tell whether you're being sarcastic or you're really that stupid.  China will sooner or later dump its tbills, causing a massive collapse, move the $ to china investment corp, which will start buying IBM Apple Google and whatever else retains any value--at a cheap price.


The US is over.  And talking about nukes, it's easier to nuke one or ten of our navy fleets, which are LEGITIMATE military targets, than a a city, which is not.  Nuke a fleet, make friends in Russia & Arab world.  Nuke a city, expect armaggedon.

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 23:01 | 2908803 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture



I can believe how stupid this administration is..

Appease, Surrender, Abandon, and Get Nothing: Obama's NaivePolitik


"Obama has also turned a blind eye to brave Chinese dissidents. Our economic and political relationships with China are too important to let matters of human rights get in the way. We virtually tossed out a blind dissident seeking refuge in our embassy so as not to embarrass the Chinese communists, who hold a good portion of our national debt. In a rare case of good luck, the blind lawyer was allowed to emigrate, but no telling what is happening to the friends and relatives he left behind."

Glad to see those Diplomat Stories given more press the mainstream media misleads people about the conditions in China not only the economic news but how the people in China have no human rights. I guess we are all supposed to ignore that as long as they buy our debt and we trade with them. You would almost think some in our government along with some of the media are Communists themselfs.

Has China's Economy Bottomed Out?

Be careful what we wish for?  What kind of nonsense is that it would a wonderful thing if the people revolted and got rid of the brutal Communist over lords. 

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 23:45 | 2908870 combatsnoopy
combatsnoopy's picture

The "dissidents" or the working class will suffer an enormous wealth gap that I wouldn't be surprised if a Neo-Mao came out of the woodwork.  

You're right, our current administration is intolerably stupid. 


Mon, 10/22/2012 - 01:09 | 2908924 knukles
knukles's picture

Empty suits

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 23:52 | 2908873 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

And yet you advocate a laissez-faire approach to trade that openly encourages U.S. corporate investment in factories in oligarch/communist China, which directly and unequivocally undermines the American middle class and expands the trade deficit (see WalMart, Apple, and every major manufacturer and technology leader).  

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 00:16 | 2908890 Cortez the Killer
Cortez the Killer's picture

OK then, bud.  You work for $5 an hour.  And tell all your friends they can have jobs too.

Ill gladly buy the ipod made in america for the same price.

now. go fuck yourself red douchebag

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 00:33 | 2908900 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Translation -- na na na na boo boo.  Brilliant response, consistent with your childish ideology.

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 01:35 | 2908944 Double.Eagle.Gold
Double.Eagle.Gold's picture

Clearly, ZH does not require evidence of an IQ above 60 before granting rights to post.

What a shame.

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 06:19 | 2909010 negative rates
negative rates's picture

And that's a good thing too, cause i personally can reduce most anyone's IQ  to just above that at 61. And that won't make for much conversation among me and the lowbrows.

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 00:27 | 2908897 redpill
redpill's picture

Outsourcing of personnel and manufacturing abroad is a symptom of the problem, not the cause.  It's myopic individuals such as yourself that foolishly go back to the same master and ask for tariffs and regulation when not only will it makes matters worse, but it ignores the fact that it is the system that those masters have created that has caused the problem to begin with.  We are not bound by a communist past like China, we have no excuse for not being the nexus for free enterprise on the planet.  Instead we are losing ground because we have foolishly and lazily succombed to honey-tongued central planners who promise the world.  We stupidly believe them, and then spend our time looking for someone to blame.

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 00:38 | 2908905 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

So if the cause of the problem is central planning, why do you advocate free trade with a country that defines the term and uses its citizens to enable the transfer of intellectual property and enriching the few at the centrally planned top?   How do you propose eliminating the obvious incentive of Western business to build factories in a slave labor country with no environmental regulations?  

I was at a conference in South Carolina a few years ago, and I did a double take when a local gave me directions that included "take a left at the slave market."   Does that have a nice ring to you? 

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 23:56 | 2908874 Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

Don't worry QE to infinity is here to stay.

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 00:04 | 2908883 TideFighter
TideFighter's picture

"So, was it a backache or something like a heart attack?" 

"No, he was Simmonized"

"I didn't know China had hot tubs?"

"We don't."

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 21:55 | 2908740 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

China will likely remain an enigma and difficult to read and react to.  Yet, I still believe (and have for a while) that cool heads and smart diplomacy (and getting OUR affiars in order), all "ifs", that there will be no hot war with China.   

Further, I think that we can, at least to a degree "partner" with historically non-aggresive China.  Just be cool and take it easy.

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 22:31 | 2908790 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

After all.....we have demonstrated to the world that we are eternally searching for peace.....sarcasm off

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 22:57 | 2908818 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture


-1, this is the STOOPID police and you have been cited ...

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 23:12 | 2908832 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

China has historically always had an isolationist nature.  That's a big reason why they've chosen an eastern form of communism.  The last big expansion they had was the Han dynasty, many lunisolar centuries ago. I mean their biggest fear has always been "invasion", they've built great walls for a reason, they're not conquerers, that's for the wild eyed meat eaters.

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 23:40 | 2908866 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

PS- I understand China and the reasons for their choices.  However, I also know, nothing has a more corrosive effect on the human spirit than communism.

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 02:15 | 2908956 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

How about the currently prevelant 

Kulture of Krony Kapitalism....

Quite Korrosive...


Mon, 10/22/2012 - 00:21 | 2908894 Cortez the Killer
Cortez the Killer's picture

just not worth it fighting over some bird shit crusted sea rocks 5000 miles from California

If the Japanese want them, let them spill their own treasure and blood.

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 01:14 | 2908927 knukles
knukles's picture

Here here,
We have plenty of bird shit encrusted rocks right here in the People's Republic of California

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 03:23 | 2908979 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

knuckles, not sure if you wear tin hats, but as a Kalifornican, this might be of interest. I'm a former Bay Arean meself. Wish I was on to this then...


Mon, 10/22/2012 - 20:18 | 2911237 knukles
knukles's picture


Many thnaks.  I absolutely LOVE stuff like that.
I find it ever so "entertaining"
Many thanks.

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 21:58 | 2908745 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

Yep, through all that they're accumulating gold no holds barred.

Sun Tzu at its best.

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 22:20 | 2908770 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill."-SunTzu

They found our weakness: Corporations & Politicians who would sell their mother for a profit.

+10 Long

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 22:47 | 2908805 combatsnoopy
combatsnoopy's picture

China exploits their labor pool (SNL & others are whining on their behalf when their slave labor gets offshored jobs from Americans)... they're tackling inflation while their wealthy induldge in TACKY hideous looking gold plated cars and Remy cognac that costs 2500 Euros/bottle as they clutter up their krappy tiny spaces with gaudy made in CHina label knock offs.  Folks, this is how Mao created the famine. 

The narcissist nihilistic yet sadistic sycophantic nature of Asia will get them from within.  Tiger parenting ruined that country, and the rest of that continent. 


Sun, 10/21/2012 - 23:03 | 2908822 ACP
ACP's picture

You forgot to mention...

"'d send her COD."

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 06:00 | 2909002 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

China has its own version of "gridlock" due to factionalism within a one-party system (as opposed to the D/R branding differences in the USSAs one-party system);

This gridlock (combined with a desire to save face and preserve the facade of success of the one-party system) prevents serious action against the widespread corruption where Chinese corporations big and small and in bed with politicians big and small;

Global debasement isn't just a game among the central bankers.

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 21:57 | 2908746 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture
Apparently the USA isn't the only one with a Bad Company...

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 22:02 | 2908749 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Why didn't they say that the City of London and US wants access to the South China Sea oil reserve fields and are willing to have a nuclear exchange if China doesn't go along with it. I don't understand the pissing contest. They should put me in charge. This is obviouly the end result of something Hillary did. 

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 22:16 | 2908766 chump666
chump666's picture

Gas. Easy to access apparently, and abundant.  That and Japan has their anti-nuclear backlash going, China has energy inflation (thanks to Fed/ECB madness).  Recipe for war. Throw in Philippines, Vietnam and India all in the mix.

Should get nastier by each month.


Sun, 10/21/2012 - 22:09 | 2908759 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

Bummer, dude...

"When Beijing's propaganda chiefs get their new austerity budgets in a year or two, it is hard to imagine they will decide to throw good money after bad."

Everyone here at ZH hopes you'll stick around anyway, AnAnymouse.

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 22:16 | 2908765 SoNH80
SoNH80's picture

Not to worry.  I'm confident that his bosses recognize his crackerjack work at exposing splittists, anti-Party black elements, tortoise eggs, "American" exponents of Americanism, and the running dogs of same, and have given him a fat Golden Week bonus of Y 75 and a pickled partridge with extra chili pepper.


Mon, 10/22/2012 - 01:18 | 2908931 knukles
knukles's picture

a happy peasant is a happy peasant
                       -Mao ze DingDong

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 22:18 | 2908771 SoNH80
SoNH80's picture

China is the least of our worries.  If Saudi "The Friendly Islamic Whack-Job State" Arabia shits the bed, it's curtains for The Tramp.


Sun, 10/21/2012 - 22:24 | 2908775 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Not going to happen

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 22:35 | 2908792 SoNH80
SoNH80's picture

The Shah looked pretty solid in 1976, why, he was importing shag carpet!  and television! and bellbottoms!-- and jet fighters!-- and then, he shat the bed.

I have always been perplexed as to why one Islamic theocratic police state is "good," and the other Islamic theocratic police state is "bad."  They both seem pretty lousy to me, and the U.S. should keep its distance from both, but I guess I'm not a really sophisticated Elite political type after all.


Sun, 10/21/2012 - 22:50 | 2908809 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

The Shaw? Why do you bring up him when you were referring to SA? The Shaw was a western controlled puppet whom the people hated so much they finally threw out and nationalized their oil. Which is why they are demonized still today.

After Nixon & Co. fucked the world's CBs, their were long lines at the gas station, inflation, layoffs and we made a deal with SA? With what? Well, that we would turn their hareem into a parking lot if they didnt play nice. What would you think their chances are today by screwing with the US?

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 22:58 | 2908820 3rdgrader
3rdgrader's picture

the long lines might not be back, but current record fuel prices will seem like a bargain in six months if obama gets re-elected

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 22:22 | 2908773 prains
prains's picture

cronyism, corruption, mal investment calls home wherever there are people that are only interested in their own personal enrichment, and they'll start wars to do so.

What china needs is a rance rarmstrong to show just how great they are as a people and a nation. go rance, we wove yuuuu!

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 22:26 | 2908780 BeaverFever
BeaverFever's picture

Fortunately for the Chewbacca, the Chinese love KFC otherwise her 57" butt would be in danger of shrinkage when they take over the country.

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 22:36 | 2908798 bankonzhongguo
bankonzhongguo's picture

After 20 years of China Whatever, I can tell you unless you pick-up and move there and learn the language there is NOTHING for you on any China trade.

The race is on. 

Can China obtain enough gold to make the yuan the next global reserve currency for the next 100 years for the rest of the developing world - mainly Africa, or does the Fed/BOE/ECB/BIS take down all currencies including the yuan?  How that is going to happen with China actually making everything is beyond me.

The sprint is China remains independent with a semi-gold backed yuan, or its broken into pieces a la - Warring States.

It's not as far fetched as you realize, at least some Chinese see it that way.

Now what could break China apart?

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 22:58 | 2908821 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

The same thing that broke the Roman and American Empire apart.


Sun, 10/21/2012 - 22:43 | 2908802 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Unfortunately I know very little about China. I do know that they lend the US money, produce many of our consumer goods, are still growing at high rates and are now an industrial super power. How good native technology really is is a question. I rather doubt they pose a current threat as they have much to sort out at home.

On the other hand, the USA is clearly in decline. We don't even need to go into this because ZH readers are well aware of what is going on here. If there are any threats, it is an out of control US Neocon led military industrial complex that now answers to US corporate interests and also to some weird form of American christian fundamentalist superiority complex.

In short, the USA is a wild card and the influence of Israel upon our Middle East actions makes us a very WILD card. We have our fingers in every pie from North Africa to central Asia and all point inbetween. The US now is an open backer of al-Qaeda and the Sunni religious sect across Middle Eastern States. We are hell bent on war on Syria, war on Iran and now, war on Lebanon. All the while talking tough about future war on China, as also the ever present talk of war on Russia. See Romney's latest threats against Russia.

So clearly, who is the world's mad dog nation? Who is militarily involved in half the countries of the world, and bombs at will any nation they feel like? The washington elites fancy themselves rulers of half the earth and all the while seem to be aiming for more.

The neocon wackjobs in Washington and Israel will take the world to war, because they believe they are all powerful. They are wrong! And it will be the average American who pays the price of their empire building. China should be worried, Russia isn't worried because Putin just practiced using his vast nuclear forces to defend the Russian nation. Why in 2012 does Russia need to practice nuclear war? Look to the wackjobs in Washington and you get your answer. It is a sign that Russia takes this threat seriously that they have moved the most modern AA Missile systems they have to the Turkish border. The US invasion of Syria will not come off without a hitch like Iraq did. War mongering from Ms Clinton will not be tolerated like it has been. The line in the sand is beginning to be drawn by both Russia and China. The conquest of Iran may be where that line comes into play. Or perhaps even Syria. The empire is playing with fire!

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 23:05 | 2908825 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture



Jack Burton:

" ... On the other hand, the USA is clearly in decline. We don't even need to go into this because ZH readers are well aware of what is going on here. If there are any threats, it is an out of control US Neocon led military industrial complex that now answers to US corporate interests and also to some weird form of American christian fundamentalist superiority complex."


Naive, myopic, with an unhealthy tinge of conspiracy-theory thrown in (presumably just for BAD measure)

While there are those on ZH who are 'well aware' of this tripe, I think honestly those numbers are small. A much larger majority ARE aware of the truth, and you have nailed it let alone even buzzed close by it ...


Sun, 10/21/2012 - 23:18 | 2908837 AetosAeros
AetosAeros's picture

So how much longer are you going to shill for pay? Or are you doing this 'pro bono'? Everything you post isn't remotely in the 'Devil's Advocate' style, nor do you ever show solid proof of your claims. You merely disparage others with personal attacks and show a very, very clear agenda in your responses.

I think that CNBC or MSNBC is missing you from their boards. Or just continue with the shilling. One thing I have noticed though. Upon yours, and 2 others recent postings, people with clear posts, supported by links and information, suddenly get 3 downvotes. Especially if any statement is made in reference to Israel or financial structures which support the Apartheid state.


Sun, 10/21/2012 - 23:32 | 2908862 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture


"So how much longer are you going to shill for pay? Or are you doing this 'pro bono'?"

Asking the wrong questions; what you attribute to malice and ill-intent on behalf of who you cite as the 'problem' would better be explained as ill-educated, mis-informed and mis-guided.


"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."


- Hanlon's Razor

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 00:11 | 2908887 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

Jack Burton/James Cole,

Where did you get the impression the invasion of Iraq came off without a hitch?

And where did you get the impression Hillary Clinton is "war mongering," when she is doing nothing at all, other than protecting herself?

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 06:27 | 2909013 Wile-E-Coyote
Wile-E-Coyote's picture

Got to agree the danger is Syria and Iran, Russia and China have made their position clear they will defend both regimes. Why do you think NATO is not bombing the shit out of Syria at this very moment, a line in the sand already exists. The confligration between Turkey and Syria is an attempt to fool the Russians that a local war has nothing to do with the US or NATO, it won't work. There is no advantage whatsoever for Syria to start fighting with Turkey, they have enough on their plates with the rebels.

We live in very dangerous times.

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 22:49 | 2908807 straightershooter
straightershooter's picture

Being to the Florida lately? See the Sign, I FOUGHT THE LAWN AND THE LAWN WON.

The lawn is intractable, unyielding and relentless.... with every passing second, it keeps growing, day or night, rain or shine, winter or summer.  Like the logo in zero hedge..... with a time horizon long enough, every wo/man here in USA who fought the lawn will eventually be defeated by lawn..... That much is certain....

Now, replacing the lawn with China.....same logic goes....


OH, wait, what if the house with no LAWN..... Then no lawn to fight, win forever. But, a house without a lwan even existed here in US of A........ OH, Damm, what a F**** sagacious owner designed the house without lawn and yet having a spacious view of the fairway adjourning the house.


Sun, 10/21/2012 - 22:53 | 2908814 dbomb12
dbomb12's picture

Lets never forget, The Chinese are crony capital communists and their stats are probably more rigged than ours

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 23:08 | 2908826 combatsnoopy
combatsnoopy's picture

Asians are notorious for exaggerating their plights.  Japan and China both claimed a trade deficit with each other, IN THE SAME YEAR.  That's impossible for anyone who couldn't see the forest for the trees. 

If they're "struggling", go after their wealthy class for a market.  They have money.  

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 22:58 | 2908819 Monedas
Monedas's picture

China, China, everywhere .... but not a drop of tea to pee !     Good night .... I've run out of BS ?

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 23:13 | 2908824 combatsnoopy
combatsnoopy's picture

Dem Aussies just lowered their interest rates again for this imaginary slow down in Asia, which condones the imaginary "shortage" in food and oil commodities to push up prices.  There goes China's J-curve that I was hoping for! 

The one thing that John Maynard Keynes overlooked are the "creative" nature of international trade policies and the bought off WTO among other factors.  His work goes beyond the Laffer Curve, he knew a lot.  Trouble with his theories is that they can't be applied in black and white when we're getting knived by K, J and Wall Streets.  

At least the OTHER SE ASIAN COUNTRIES GOT SMART AND ***RAISED*** THEIR INTEREST RATES!!! (Carry traders, take notes!) ref: ie. Thailand, Indonesia...


China exploits their labor pool (SNL & others are whining on their behalf when their slave labor gets offshored jobs from Americans)... they're tackling inflation while their wealthy induldge in TACKY hideous looking gold plated cars and Remy cognac that costs 2500 Euros/bottle as they clutter up their krappy tiny spaces with gaudy made in CHina label knock offs.  Folks, this is how Mao created the famine. 
I'm personally rooting for Japan in this epic battle.  The Japanese should've eaten the Sinos alive during that one war and spit out the bones.  Japan = quality.  Japan has the lowest gap between CEO and average employee.  They had horrible economic policies and China is doing no better.  Japan has cleaner, better quality food.  Japan has infrastructure that can withstand 9.0 earthquakes while China's school infrastructures (education is very important in Asia) crumbles in an earthquake in an earthquake smaller than 6.0 while their wealthy drive around in gold plated cars, drink 2500 euro/bottle Remy cognac, and litter their ugly homes with made in China knock offs to "Save face".  

Japan = Quality.  China = Quantity.  


So these hot headed, sociopathic, narcissistic ways to save face and the soullessness of that area of the world, as enforced by Amy Chua's style of tiger parenting is a dismal failure.  Don't blame the Americans-they did this to each other.  

On that note, I'm wondering when the LOSERS on Wall STreet are going to wise up and lobby Chinese officials directly to remove their ban against the U.S. Financial sector.  This is how Hollywood beat the game and were allowed to sell their movies in CHina (Avitar and Avengers' profits beat out Wall Street on it's best day) and of course the losers on K&J Streets who failed to get the rest of us able to sell in CHina- they kind of sent the SEC after Hollywood on those "bribes".  But not Clinton who took bribes from their officials to pass a crappy NAFTA with them.

I once had a Chinese POA over 15 different accounts at a brokerage firm, the man placed over 50 trades in ONE call.  They were all buy orders.  The Chinese are good for this.  After we get them into our market, all 1.3 billion of them, we lose the carry trade incentive to invest elsewhere by raising interest rates and cutting capital gains taxes to 0%.  (forget TARP, the banks can fail.)  

The Chinese are going to gamble their extra monies away in Macau anyways, we need to put them to good use.  Then our private sector can recover and unemployment will fix itself.

Look, if China gets it's volume in OUR markets, the rest of the world will want to take advantage of that volume.   Then the U.S. hits a Grand Slam! 

Gingrich caught on, he wanted a 0% capital gains tax (this tax only makes up 5% of the Federal Tax revenue anyways).  The boomer picked GOP "delegates" HATE America and picked Romney instead.  Obama is doing so bad that if a conservative isn't whopping his @$$ in the polls right now, we obviously deserve better. 

But will the "non-materialistic" economically illiterate Baby boomer flowerchildren real estate ponzi schemer voting majority figure it out?  I unfortunately can't hold my breath, I don't trust them to know how to set the US up for success in the global market.   

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 23:15 | 2908834 monopoly
monopoly's picture

"Furthermore, as The Diplomat explains, multi-faceted challenges to the new leadership — possible economic stagnation, social unrest, elite disunity, and a revival of pro-democracy forces — will make it more distracted and less politically capable to maintain discipline on numerous actors now involved in China's foreign policy. 

My, my, Until I saw China in the last sentence I thought those challenges were all about US. Wait a minute. they are!

Sun, 10/21/2012 - 23:44 | 2908869 The Fonz...befo...
The Fonz...before shark jump's picture

It's the same play from the dog eared super power playbook..

When your economy at home starts to stutter... Nothing like a good war to distract

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 00:26 | 2908896 swampyankee
swampyankee's picture

OT from an email just now... Just getting the word out, don't hate me ; )


WARNING!  This is the worst-case scenario unfolding at Fukushima.  According to Michael Eckstein, a researcher who lives only 50 miles from Fukushima, explosions and fires have occurred at spent fuel pools two and four over the past four days and now radiation levels are spiking enormously. 




This is now vapourizing into the atmosphere and being disseminated with the winds. Major cloud and radiation spike estimated to hit west coast of USA in two weeks or less.


I will post more information as it comes in and I have a chance to put together something.  NO MATTER WHAT DO NOT BELIEVE THE MASS-MEDIA.  THIS IS FIRST-HAND EYE-WITNESS INFORMATION.


"The Govt is willing to pay $5000 for 15min work,,,but no one has come forward.  i can see the steam coming over the mountain here as im writing.  I'm going to do a Live interview with CNN at 3pm my time, its 11:38am right now Monday morning.  You should see it when you wake up. I am going to tell the truth like before.  I want to give you the chance we and our children never got.


Jeff,  It was spent fuel from plants 2 and 4.  In plant #2  over 30,000 Spent fuel rods are now exposed, and in the #4 plant, the workers have evacuated. There is now mass panic at all airports, shopping centers to stock up on food,We are being told to stay indoors,,schools are being instructed to keep the students inside.  I'll keep you up-dated through-out the day.  This is an historical event underway as we speak.


"They say the SPIKE increase, is blowing due west, thats directly towards America, This time its power is 1000x greater than before, due to the fact the rods are now exposed, and no one will go within 20 miles, people here are starting to panic by again Jeff" tell me all that you know about recent developments at Fukushima. I have known all along that spent fuel pools had been destroyed since beginning.  Numbers one and three likely destroyed first week.


Spent pool it now burning?  Is this where the explosion of two days ago was?


"Yes, Jeff, its from the new explosion.  If you can get your hands on ANY idione pills, stock up, specially for the children, its coming your way, but no one is going to tell you the truth.  I AM, its my mission now to save as many as i can.  the readings on our meter spiked up again this morning since yesterdays reading, now its over 840 and climbing, EXAMPLE, a person should only be exposed to 50 mill in a lifetime. do the math.  Jeff, one more point, since the season winds have changed, the direction is now directly towards the west coast.  Im sorry to have to report this, but we must act and demand from the Govt, truths, and how to prepare. Everyone is concerned about the election at the moment, but within 72 hours the experts are saying, it should start spiking around the LA area around wed, and within 2 weeks,  the entire country will be up to 300 mill.  I will keep you posted.  God BLess, and Thank you for your awareness to get the word out ASAP.  PREPARE, we didnt have the chance, you do. Learn from our experience.  Michael"


Mon, 10/22/2012 - 00:55 | 2908916 newengland
newengland's picture

Japan has been the corporatists' experiment with the nuclear age in every sense, and the consumerist age.

Forgive me and mine if we are very upset for our friends who live there, and care nothing for political excuses. We know that the world screams for its money, and cares not that Japan is dying. This is a bitter reality.

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 02:55 | 2908967 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture


If this is the same Michael Eckstein, a politician, I hope you can let me know.   If it is not, could you bring a link?  This is big news.  I hope it is reliable.  I imagine it will spread like wild fire or the current fall out in west ward winds. 


(Potassium Iodide - when to take it:  Public officials will tell you how many days to take KI.  You should take KI until the chances of major exposure to radioactive iodine by breathing or swallowing stops. 


I guess that would be forever.

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 17:12 | 2910824 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

After 24 hours of searching (and seeing this same post on various sites), I am concluding this is a hoax as are many others.


And....shame on you, Mister.  You are a mean person and should be banned from the internet.

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 00:40 | 2908908 newengland
newengland's picture

I admire the Chinese people. I dislike its Politburo. My daughter is learning Mandarin at a U.S. college, and her professor is Chinese. My father was a world class engineer. He went to a one room school house in New England. China has more engineers than lawyers. Excellent.

However, China's Politburo and central bank likes corporatism, state fascism. 

The greatest gift to the modern world came from my people: white anglo saxon protestants, and the Enlightenment. That's why people of every creed, color and religion went to the West...for their inalienable rights as human beings, so they could escape powerbrokers who wanted to make them state slaves, serfs.

China is a slave nation, and it will remain so under its Politburo, therefore, it will fail in the medium and long term. Its disaspora will flee the Politburo.

The biggest problem for the USA now is that it is infested with corporatists, globalists, two-faced lying, thieving self-serving self-appointed little princes and princesses in Washington DC...the tax making and tax dodging haven.

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 06:55 | 2909032 falak pema
falak pema's picture

when you've crossed the potomac and retaken the Capitol from the US politburo just give us a jingle! 

We'll all celebrate the lady with the torch in Manhattan. 

In the meantime teach your daughter to write a manadarin poem on a grain of rice. 

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 01:12 | 2908913 newengland
newengland's picture

My daughter will speak English, Mandarin and Spanish to her compatriots in the U.S., and any other people who survive this oncoming bonfire of the vanities among the old men who make war and steal from the majority.


Beware of the medium term and long term. The short term is for gamblers. Good luck at the casino. Do you feel lucky trading against HFT algorithms?

BTW, the ad for Forecasting World Events', I am not interested in your trolling on the ZH site. F..orf.

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 01:11 | 2908926 diesheepledie
diesheepledie's picture

We need to orchestrate a full nuclear conflict between China and India. Pakistan will also become involved. Japan will probably come to the aid of India, causing China to push North Korea into a full attack on South Korea.

This whole thing will escalate into a nuclear WW3, and destroy Chinese, Indian, and Japanese production capacity. A re-run of WW2; the destruction of this manufacturing capacity abroad will create a boom in the USA unlike which has ever been seen before.

I trust a Romney presidency will be compliant with our desire to deploy this plan.


Mon, 10/22/2012 - 01:27 | 2908938 knukles
knukles's picture

Such a bright outlook :)

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 07:36 | 2909054 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

yet, still a sneaky and cunning plan, Baldrick!

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 08:54 | 2909182 toomanyfakecons...
toomanyfakeconservatives's picture

Luckily, our men and women in uniform won't play ball with WWIII. Treason has never been at such overwhelming levels. All that hardware in Persian waters is there to keep nations, including Israel, from starting any shit.


JFK died before I was born, but if you are not versed in his warnings, his legacy, and his murder, you should be. This is a Cuban missile crisis moment, and there hasn't been any leadership around or any justice done since 1963.

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 01:36 | 2908945 luckylongshot
luckylongshot's picture

The whole argument that China is going to contract is flawed. Because the Chinese own their central bank they can create whatever money they need to fund whatever projects they want and keep their workforce employed. Depressions and hyperinflation are not natural events but the result of decisions by the private banks that own the right to create money in the west. China is only going to get stronger.

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 06:48 | 2909029 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Nothing moves in a straight line when it comes to the economies of the world. I therefore suspect that China will attempt to create a new economic paradigm because the present paradigm of collecting US dollars, lending money to companies to create jobs without the ability to service loans, allowing massive over capacity to be created and not having a legal system keeping pace with the economic developments will create a great deal of turmoil, both social and economic.

While China in gross terms will get stronger, I suspect that the vast bulk of their population will soon come to realise that the bad old days of communism have returned.

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 06:07 | 2909006 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

There is no need to decide who out of China and the USA will come out on top as long as you realise that history will eventually relegate both of these "empires" to the dust bin and only those of us who put a small part of our faith in gold and silver will live to crow about it to our grandchildren.

Be warned.....the government paper of both these nations is poison.

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 08:43 | 2909156 toomanyfakecons...
toomanyfakeconservatives's picture

Think about it; nations around the world want their stolen gold back from the FED and BIS. The 100+ nation BRICs alliance is in the position to flip a switch and turn off the FRN for international settlements. Also, my mentioning the multi-trillion dollar liens against the FED and Bank of International Settlements does not make me a full-fledged Benjamin Fulford conspiracy nut.

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 09:51 | 2909297 Leraconteur
Leraconteur's picture

The Communist canard, slave labour and all criticisms of China could have been levied 1400 years ago. China had most of the cultural aspects of Communism already in place and the only remaining one was to take the property from those who had it, which Feudal Lords had done for millenia in China before. The CCP saw the chance to become the new feudal warlords, that's all 1949 was.

They were copying things centuries ago and considered it a skill worthy of praise, they were working 80-100 hours a week, they were treated like the property of their bosses - none of it is new.

Everyone in the rest of the world needs to read about China in great detail for years to come and study the language, culture and history to gain any insight to their point of view.

What's likely to happen is just as when China sent tribute armadas to 'request' tribute to bring back to the Imperial Palace, so will a modern China begin to 'request' that certain terms and conditions be met, that certain pieces of land change hands.

They hold grudges for millenia, they do not forget and they have a childish need to seek revenge, spite their enemies, watch them suffer and lord it over them.

Libraries will be written and filled. Again and again.

Taiwan will eventually become part of China again and when that happens anyone even remotely, 5th generation removed from the Nationalists will be carted off. All assets seized, every ounce of gold and Chinese treasures repatriated.

And that's just ONE issue.

China wants all of it back - going back to 700 AD. They want it all back and now they have money, an army and a large industrial base to accomplish this.

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 10:56 | 2909451 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

"Conan, what is best in life?"

"To crush your enemies, drive them before you and hear the lamentations of their women."

Old school is still cool.

Mon, 10/22/2012 - 10:30 | 2909390 lindaamick
lindaamick's picture

This article looks at China from a Western point of view.

As such, it says nothing about China. 


Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!