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On This Date In 1929, The Black Thursday Selling Has Begun

Tyler Durden's picture


Last week, the misty eyed reminiscences were recalling the 25th anniversary of Black Monday. Today, we look even further back. 83 years back to be precise to this date in hallowed antiquity, when in 1929 the selling had officially begun, with what would ultimately culminate as the Great Crash. Cue Art Cashin: "on this Thursday morning, the market opened nervous but relatively steady. Within the first half hour, prices began to fade and the tape began to run late. By noon the tape was nearly an hour and-a-half late in reporting transactions in a market that had opened only two hours before. To speed the reporting digits were deleted and so "Radio" which had opened at 68 3/4 now showed on the tape at 8 3/4. But prices were moving so fast that the price was not 58 3/4 but 48 3/4 on its way to 48 1/4 before it would bottom in the afternoon at 44 1/2. To avoid confusion the Exchange published flash prices of selected securities on the slower moving bond tape." By early afternoon the cascade of prices caused an emergency meeting at the offices of J.P. Morgan across the street from the Exchange...."

From Art Cashin of UBS Financial Services

On this day in 1929, Wall Street brokers headed for work more than a little confused. The action the day before had made them a bit uneasy. Several weeks earlier, the Dow had made one more record high - the latest of a series in a super bull market that had lasted years and caught the attention of a fascinated public. Then the market began to sputter-but-so what. The Great Bull had rolled and rested before only to roar and rise again. But the prior day's trading had raised the anxiety level. So, on this Thursday morning, the market opened nervous but relatively steady.

Within the first half hour, prices began to fade and the tape began to run late. By noon the tape was nearly an hour and-a-half late in reporting transactions in a market that had opened only two hours before. To speed the reporting digits were deleted and so "Radio" which had opened at 68 3/4 now showed on the tape at 8 3/4. But prices were moving so fast that the price was not 58 3/4 but 48 3/4 on its way to 48 1/4 before it would bottom in the afternoon at 44 1/2. To avoid confusion the Exchange published flash prices of selected securities on the slower moving bond tape."

By early afternoon the cascade of prices caused an emergency meeting at the offices of J.P. Morgan across the street from the Exchange. The heads of all the big banks were there: Mitchell of Citibank; Presser of Bankers Trust; Wiggin of Chase; Potter of the Guaranty Trust; Baker of First National and, of course, Lamont of the House of Morgan. They pledged over $30 million and called the "Morgan broker", Richard Whitney who got the job by cleverly being the brother of one of the Morgan senior partners.

Since there was no SEC at the time, a terrible thing happened. Some broker looked out the windows on Broad Street and noticed the major bankers of America were going into the House of Morgan. Not understanding the penalty for inside information he probably said "The bankers are meeting to form a pool." Despite the fact that no one would use such tainted data, prices began to steady.

And then Whitney entered the U.S. Steel crowd and bid 205 for 10,000. He bought only a few hundred shares but left his bid on the book. He then walked to each of the key stocks of that era and bid similarly. The market began to rally. In the final 1/2 hour selling began again but a disaster had been averted. At the bell, the tape was four hours late and the volume was an astounding 12 million shares.

(A brief note on tape lateness – in over four and a half decades of trading, I have been asked thousands of times – “How come you guys trade so slow that when things gets busy, the tape runs late?” I would reply that tape lateness had everything to do with the tape readers and not the floor broker. I, and my fellow NYSE members, can trade many, many times faster than you, or anyone can read. The tape was linear. If it printed the trades as fast we made them, it would zip by at unreadable lightning speed. So, the tape ran at maximum “reading” speed and was thus “delayed” because it couldn’t keep up with the frenzied pace of trading. Nowadays reporting is digital to a computer so prices are current and not confined to a linear tape.)

The story of Whitney’s bid of “205 for 10,000 Steel” was repeated again and again in the papers. It soon reached mythic proportions. Whitney was portrayed as the ultimate man of action, a Colossus who strode across a panicky floor trying to shield a market and a nation from collapse. Never mind it was not his money.

The image grew and Whitney was elected President of the NYSE from 1930 through 1935. He was a national celebrity who became a much sought-after speaker on things like “Business Honesty And Ethics”.

But neither Whitney nor the bankers' pool could stem the awful tide that began to crest on this particular Thursday.

Anyway, five days later, the bottom would fall out of the market. Four months later banks would begin to fail. And, ten years later Richard Whitney, again the president of the Exchange ,would be sent to Sing Sing prison for misappropriating money escrowed for widows of Exchange members.

To celebrate drop by the Smoot-Hawley Lounge and point out to some regulator that Whitney was the only inmate to serve time at Sing Sing who was called "Mr." by everyone from the warden to the denizens of death row. It was "Mr. Whitney" from the day he came in until the day, years later, when he drove off in his brother's limo.

Traders were looking for lifeboats rather than limos for much of Monday's session. Then a last hour rescue by Apple and friends removed all the angst.


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Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:04 | 2912520 VulpisVulpis
VulpisVulpis's picture

Same as it ever was ...

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:18 | 2912563 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

yes and've gotz ur PUTERS to rig it a little tighter.......but by the same token it just takes a key stroke to dump it "yes" they can "tank" it  now in a nanosecond.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:40 | 2912605 economics9698
economics9698's picture

For those who do not know the story the Fed lowered the reserve requirement to buy stocks from 100% to 10% in 1921. 

English central banker Montagu Norman meet with American Fed Chairman Benjamin Strong in 1924 and wanted the pound to be pre-WWI level of $4.80 instead of $3.50 so if America would inflate the money supply it would help England

Since the Fed was owned by Rothschild family residing in England this was not a problem.  The money supply was expanded 61.8% and the rest is history.

The central bankers never envisioned Hoover (29-33) would be so incompetent.  Hover raised taxes from 25% to 63%, increased federal sending 47%, and passed Smoot-Hawley tariff act, tariffs up to 61%.

And the Great Depression was born.

FDR was another class warfare stooge, raised taxes to 79%, passed minimum wage laws, the Fed doubled the reserve requirement in 37, and the disaster set the world up for WWII.  95% man made disaster.  Typical when the assholes are in charge.

Let me add Norman meet with American Secretary of the Treasury Mellon in February of 29 and told of the coming crash.  The Fed sold off all its market exposure soon afterwards.  Paul Warburg (Fed creator) notified the top 0.01%, Rockefeller, Morgan of the crash.  By the summer of 29 all the elites were out of the market. 

When this next bond market crash comes maybe we can hang these bastards instead of them spending the next decade buying up assets, ya think?

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:55 | 2912723 Dalago
Dalago's picture

The House of Rothschild will eventually meet its demise.  Their control is subtle but a control nonetheless.  And just the Kings they will fall.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:00 | 2912749 economics9698
economics9698's picture

We need to identify who they are and where they live and plaster it all over the internet.  The days of a few elites fucking up everyone’s lives for their sick perverted amusement are coming to a end.  They will see the end of a rope.


Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:17 | 2912772 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

Royal Houses of Europe...bloodlines...

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:19 | 2912818 Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

There's no grand conspiracy by 'evil Jews'.  Man suffers from a manic-depressive creative genius syndrome:

Consequently, there's a seasonal tendency for mass panics to strike during the autumn:

Prechter and Elliott Wave are on top of this.  I thought we'd see a seasonal mass panic into the 10/15 new moon, but I may have been off a 1/2 lunar cycle.  The 10/29 full moon, which happens to involve a Puetz eclipse crash window associated with the 11/13 total solar eclipse, might be more relevant to man's seasonal lunacy.

If the Mideast lights up, head for a bunker.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:28 | 2912846 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

Interesting stuff. I'm re-reading The Fourth Turning at the moment. Prescient. The universe is much stanger than we can imagine.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 12:12 | 2912990 redpill
redpill's picture

You're telling me.  Got dark energy?

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 12:19 | 2913008 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

No, but can I interest you in a "timeless instant in which all possible permutations of all the matter in the universe exists at once in superposition, which our consciousnesses crosscut to generate the illusion of time"? Or crack if you want that...

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 16:12 | 2913824 spanish inquisition
spanish inquisition's picture

Got it. Times job is to keep you from experiencing everything all at once.

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 05:11 | 2915171 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

I didn't expect that.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 12:19 | 2913012 bigbwana
bigbwana's picture

We are reliably informed that there are thousands of different civilisations is our galaxy, alone! Kept a great secret from us by the Illuminati, part of their strategy for a NWO. As was privatising the Fed, BOE, et al. They started all global wars and made obscene profits selling arms to both sides. They will be punished, and they know it, for their crimes against humanity. Promise the Galactic Federation (Google). The Illuminati have been defeated! WSpread the wondrous news!

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 12:25 | 2913021 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

I'll answer this sentence by sentence:

Oh? Hmm... Yep. Most of the big ones. Probably-- I hope so. LOLWUT. The who? I'll get on that.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 12:26 | 2913023 SMG
SMG's picture

Yea, I'll beleive that when I see the Oligarchs being drug through the street by a UFO.  Until then we still need to keep fighting the bad guys.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:13 | 2912803 HeatMiser
HeatMiser's picture

Can't do that because the powers that be would call you and Anti Semite and then charge you with hate crime.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 12:14 | 2912989 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

countries such as great britain have territories eg., bermuda and the caymans, et.el.

the danes have greenland under their jurisdiction/ control, and many old world functioning dynasties still having the same territorial rights of many undeveloped and 3rd world {[diaspora by wars and great wars [[I & II]} countries--- think of indonesia via france? in the 19th/ 20th century, etc., etc.,!

now, to my point? ask yourself this,... why hasn't the united states claimed israel as a territory...



Tue, 10/23/2012 - 15:11 | 2913582 Debt-Is-Not-Money
Debt-Is-Not-Money's picture

"why hasn't the united states claimed israel as a territory...


Sorry, but you're backwards- Israel has already claimed the United States as a territory!

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:59 | 2912942 SMG
SMG's picture

It's not enough to bring justice to the Elitles.  Their SYSTEM must be totally dismantled, lest new monsters fill their shoes.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 12:37 | 2913052 economics9698
economics9698's picture

That is why we support a gold standard.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:33 | 2912866 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

i'm long guillotines

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:53 | 2912727 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

What were taxes before Coolidge put them at 25%, chief?


Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:55 | 2912733 economics9698
Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:10 | 2912790 vato poco
vato poco's picture

Think of it...a President who *wasn't* deeply in love with the sound of his own voice, who kept his (and the USG's) nose out of other people's affairs AND cut the shit out of both government & taxes. Damn. I think I'm getting a hardon.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 16:23 | 2913873 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

This time, we will move toward direct taxing system.

we have 11 years of experience.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 12:52 | 2913096 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

- "John D. Rockefeller made $1 billion a year, measured in today's money, and paid no income tax. No one did, for income tax did not yet exist in America. Congress tried to introduce an income tax of 2 per cent on earnings over $4,000 in 1894, but the Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional. Income tax wouldn't become a regular part of American life until 1914, and in the meantime any money that was made was kept. People would never be this rich again".


- excerpt from Bill Bryson's recent book "At Home"

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 12:56 | 2913110 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

 - "descriptions about the period in America where there was no income tax or other major 'redistribution of wealth', and there was no centralized (communist) policy for money planning. Ideas and wealth were pouring into America with this more favorable business environment. The "gap" between the wealthiest people and the poorest was, of course, boundless, but the additional REAL wealth creation came in from overseas via massive exporting, and, in addition to the entrepreneurial "rich" creating manufacturing jobs, they threw parties and built homes that created jobs, and they funded universities and hospitals to secure their legacies (as the mega-rich very often do). They also brought art and worldly treasures to our shores that sit in our museums today. Importantly at this time, ambitious immigrant workers were certainly no less "exploited" than anywhere else in the world and, unlike the restrictive class barriers and lack of upward mobility in Europe, new and existing Americans were becoming millionaires by the tens of thousands. This growth was not agrarian via slavery (this ended in 1865) or cotton, but rather industrial via steel and ingenuity and, most importantly, via the power of property rights (including virtually no taxes, i.e. "right to your own wealth") and free markets. This unprecedented growth happened decades before "the roaring 20's" of easy credit, and before the Federal Reserve was ever created".


Tue, 10/23/2012 - 13:00 | 2913119 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Here is an excerpt from Bill Bryson's recent book "At Home" about this particular period:
"The Eiffel Tower was the most striking and imaginative large structure in the world in the nineteenth cetury, and perhaps the greatest structural achievement too, but it wasn't the most expensive building of its century or even of its year. At the very moment that the Eiffel Tower was rising in Paris, two thousand miles away in the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains in North Carolina an even more expensive structure was going up - a private residence on rather a grand scale. It would take more than twice as long to complete as the Eiffel Tower, employ four times as many workers, cost three times as much to build, and was intended to be lived in for just a few months a year by one man and his mother. Called Biltmore, it was (and remains) the largest private house ever built in North America. Nothing can say more about the shifting economics of the late nineteenth century than that the residents of the New World were now building houses greater than the greatest monuments of the Old. America in 1889 was in the sumptuous midst of the period of hyper-self-indulgence known as the Gilded Age. There would never be another time to equal it. Between 1850 and 1900 every measure of wealth, productivity and well-being skyrocketed in America. the country's population in the period tripled, but its wealth increased by a factor of thirteen. Steel production went from 13,000 tons a year to 11.3 million. Exports of metal products of all kinds - guns, rails, pipes, boilers, machinery of every description - went from $6 million to $120 million. The number of millionaires, fewer than twenty in 1850, rose to forty thousand by century's end. Europeans viewed America's industrial ambitions with amusement, then consternation and finally alarm".

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:28 | 2912829 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture



Oh goody history :)  who do we have to thank for the Fed? Our politicians in particular...


If Obama wins, will he go down as another Woodrow Wilson?


There has only been one president in American history who won a second term by a smaller popular vote percentage and electoral vote margin than four years before. That was Woodrow Wilson, the Democrat elected in a three-way contest against his two predecessors in 1912 and re-elected in 1916 by 49 to 46 percent in popular votes and 277 to 254 in the Electoral College.

If California, which then had only 13 electoral votes, had not gone for Wilson by 3,773 votes, the incumbent would have lost.

In his first term, Wilson had legislative accomplishments more popular than Obama’s. A partisan Democratic Congress passed a new antitrust act, created the Federal Trade Commission and the Federal Reserve, lowered trade barriers and imposed an income tax on high earners.

When Americans voted in November 1916, World War I had been raging in Europe for more than two years. Hundreds of thousands were dying in trench warfare, and Wilson ran on the slogan of, “He kept us out of war.”

Wilson’s second term was wholly unlike his first. In April 1917, he went before Congress and got approval for a declaration of war against Germany. A military draft was instituted, a law passed criminalizing antiwar protests, the railroads were nationalized, and the top income tax rate was raised to 77 percent.

Who got us out of FDR's mess?

America’s Greatest Depression Fighter



Tue, 10/23/2012 - 12:27 | 2913022 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

wilson's 2nd wife literally and figuratively ran the white house -- lock, stock, and barrel!

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:36 | 2912875 resurger
resurger's picture


Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:51 | 2912717 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Especially if that 'keystroke' is on the '1/0' switch on the back. ;)

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:05 | 2912522 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

From Schiff yesterday

"I do not believe that the stock market is as vulnerable to another Black Monday. With the Federal Reserve so committed to its current course of quantitative easing, it seems to me unlikely that they will allow such a steep one-day drop. Also, with bond yields so low, domestic investors are currently presented with fewer attractive options. If anything, the next Black Monday is more likely to occur in the currency and/or bond markets, with safe haven flows moving into gold not treasuries."

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:20 | 2912575 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Whoa whoa hwoa...

Are you saying the markets are rigged?


Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:29 | 2912629 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Yes the bond market is the next collapse.  

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:49 | 2912912 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture



PPT really = Presidential (and Bank) Protection Team 

“You read about traders that aren’t trading. So who’s making the volume? Is it the plunge protection team? The government’s manipulating it? We don’t have any answers to that,” said Yamada.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:30 | 2912618 Gene Parmesan
Gene Parmesan's picture

That assumes that a little bleed-off and ensuing light panic are viewed as negatives by the decision makers at present. What's the current trajectory of the election? If it's perceived by TPTB that, barring an event of some kind, Romney is on track to win, then a little shakeup - a crisis if you will - might be just what they're looking for.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:28 | 2912622 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I like Schiff but I wouldn't bet on that in a moment. The Bernank has chased away all the bears,and therefore the buyers at lower levels.If the robots withdraw their "liquidity" look out below the cascade will be bloody.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:35 | 2912654 Vince Clortho
Vince Clortho's picture

The big ? in all this is the bots withrdrawing "liquidity".  It would have to be an intentional act, since their reserves are limited only by the cp's own printing presses.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:31 | 2912634 BooMushroom
BooMushroom's picture

So, Schiff, does this mean that if the dumb money decides they all want out, so they can pay the space rent for their mobile homes and buy more cat food, that the Fed and the smart money will keep driving everything up anyway?

Oh, wait, I guess that's what's happening. Last human out, please turn off the lights! The robots can trade in the dark.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:08 | 2912530 New Survivalist
New Survivalist's picture

Thin air, bitchez!

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:10 | 2912537 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

On this date in 1929, you didn't have the FRBNY waving its wand and conjuring up the spell, "hit-ius every offer-ous".   

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:23 | 2912593 John McCloy
John McCloy's picture

Agreed and when the date arrives that unprecedented BS accounting, QE's, global bond buying and 6 years of ZIRP could not halt a crash in it's tracks is going to be quite the frightening day & they can "Forgeticus" about anything aside from a bank holiday, banning all selling and martial law stopping the inevitable.

    The markets are always seeking out fair value and on a long enough time line everything else done in the past decades and most recently is NOTHING but a temporary market distortion and is artificial. All pipers get paid eventually.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:27 | 2912606 madcows
madcows's picture

Free Benny bucks, Obama-phones and Biden jokes for everyone!  Don't worry, it's not like it's real money... it's a promisory note from the Cartel Federal Reserve.  It's even got Turbo Timmy's signature on it.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:11 | 2912541 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

After 3 presidential debates and 1 vice presidential debate I don't know how anyone could be selling?   Regardless of who wins...Buy, buy, buy!!!



Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:16 | 2912562 fuu
fuu's picture

Don't forget the First Wives debate.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:37 | 2912657 Vince Clortho
Vince Clortho's picture

More excitement than reruns of "Laverne and Shirley"?

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:38 | 2912659 fuu
fuu's picture

Who do you think did better?

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:53 | 2912731 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

69? I call it a 'draw'.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:12 | 2912542 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

Those "offices" at JP Morgue are still active. Since then, they've added a Fed red phone.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:01 | 2912761 Snoopy the Economist
Snoopy the Economist's picture

Didn't they also add a spotlight with instead of a 'bat' (play off batman) they used a man screwing another up the a$$?

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:13 | 2912547 Lost Wages
Lost Wages's picture

I'll make a bold prediction: Today shall henceforth be known as White Tuesday.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:13 | 2912551 Pasadena Phil
Pasadena Phil's picture

QE Eternity AND BEYOND!!!!!!


(You can steal that Tyler).

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:17 | 2912567 fuu
fuu's picture

Qeternal Liquidity of the Feckless Beard

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:14 | 2912552 Inthemix96
Inthemix96's picture

Lets hope in 2029 folk have woken up to the shackles around our collective necks.

My grandmother always told me that nothing good could ever come of men who dont take their coats off to do a days work.  Well it looks like the old girl was bang on the dime then. (binmen excluded) (you need your coat on in the winter if you have to empty bins for a living) (everyone else, fuck off).


Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:26 | 2912600 RSloane
RSloane's picture

I don't know your grandmother of course, but I think I would have liked her.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:54 | 2912735 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Maybe she meant raincoats, bubbie.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:24 | 2912836 resurger
resurger's picture

she said it well..


Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:15 | 2912553 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

France, Germany, Norway, Greece, Dutch stock markets all down around the -2% mark today ..even Sweden and Switzerland -1.70% to the red zone

thank fuck for Estonia, only one in the green up +0.03% ...that's gonna save us!

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:19 | 2912572 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

DJ to 6k and the DXY to 120, because that makes sense.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:25 | 2912599 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Hey what's up? I haven't seen you in a while.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:30 | 2912627 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I had 2:00 in the penalty box.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:21 | 2912577 Anasteus
Anasteus's picture

Facebook is doing well too...

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:38 | 2912662 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

The Duchy of Grand Fenwick is up 5% I hear...

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:15 | 2912554 subqtaneous
subqtaneous's picture

Fump, you Juckers!

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:55 | 2912740 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Lamb Dizz Fecks Licks.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 12:41 | 2913070 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture



There's a song for that 


Gene Burnett - Jump You F*#kers (A Song For Wall Street)

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:16 | 2912558 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

....and the dollar was still a babe in the bankers eyes. Now the dollar is an old, crippled, invalid.  Good luck selling stocks for dollars.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:17 | 2912564 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

This isn't the 1930s, there is no cheap and readily accessible energy source that can be exploited to sustain the next doubling of humanity (at least not while sustaining the current standard of living). This time is indeed different, as in, this time the dollar will not survive.


Time to find out who the real "producers" are (hint; pushing paper doesn't produce shit).  fucking bring it bitchez.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:28 | 2912621 RSloane
RSloane's picture

Jesus, who keeps down-arrowing you?

It is time to find out who the real producers are and it will come as a cold, hard slap in the face. Could not agree with you more, Laws.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:33 | 2912640 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

 I agree with him, but I think he gets down arrowed because he repeats himself so much.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:36 | 2912655 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Has the situation changed?  I think not good Doctor.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:49 | 2912708 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

No it hasn't, and I'm not trying to be derogatory...I'm just stating a fact.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:01 | 2912741 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Likewise I am simply "stating a fact", and I will change my tune when I start seeing some real consequences for bad behavior at all levels of society.  In the meantime, I need to stay focused as my operation shifts to more sustainable crops and ventures.  However, people are going to be rather surprised by exactly what a sustainable lifestyle entails, and not in a good way.

bloody sheep.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:12 | 2912798 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

This won't be the first time a sophisticated society has backslid. The Western Roman Empire was pretty damn sophisticated when it was finally overrun by the Germanics, bringing on the Midevel Times. Medicine declines, learning declined, lifespans declined, everything declined for about 500 yrs.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:23 | 2912832 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

oh, for criminy. "sophisticated society" my left earlobe. do you really think that all the gadgetry is an "implied level" of sophistication?

from a political and cultural point of view the Founding Fathers were more sophisticated

from an energy application point of view the 30's were more sophisticated

look, IMHO it's easy: things will go better as soon as the old adage is back: "waste not, want not".

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:46 | 2912904 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

perhaps, but it will be the first time it has with a human population of over seven billion.  Where you gonna run to motherfucker?  Medieval is an understatement.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 12:13 | 2912991 overbet
overbet's picture

Most men need masters.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 12:24 | 2913017 HellFish
HellFish's picture

Are we really still doubling humanity?  I thought population growth had slowed and were predicted to top out at + another 2 billion or so.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:18 | 2912569 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

"So, the tape ran at maximum “reading” speed and was thus “delayed” because it couldn’t keep up with the frenzied pace of trading. Nowadays reporting is digital to a computer so prices are current and not confined to a linear tape."

Even in the digital world there is still a reading speed for humans which is why HFT is killing the humans.  This is also why having a digital speedometer in your car was a bad idea. During acceleration the numbers blur.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:40 | 2912665 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Today they'll just stop trading, like Google the other day.

(that is, of course, after Skynet dumps for profit)

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:20 | 2912574 asteroids
asteroids's picture

God Bless Art. Time for a beer eh?

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:22 | 2912590 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

I'll meet you at Bull McCabes...I have the first round.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:21 | 2912579 madcows
madcows's picture

Bots could flash crash this b!tch in a millisecond.

They could put the great crash to shame.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:24 | 2912598 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Has anyone tested the theory that when bots are out of the comfort zone they may make logical sell everything?

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:44 | 2912689 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

Circuit breakers are in place to keep the bots from committing suicide.  

But just how fast are the circuit breakers compared to the bots???

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:21 | 2912580 Sandy15
Sandy15's picture

You guys NEED to understand this market sell off is DUE to the Bernack saying he is quitting in 2014 and because Romney is winning in the polls.  The Bernack will be un-employed Jan 2013.......  He has to sell the crap he has purchased controlling the market before the truth is exposed.


If we all could put zero's in our accounts daily to trade the market and payoff our bills, the Dow would be at 30K.......Bernack can't unwind all he has done before 2014.......

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:23 | 2912594 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Shit, he can't unwind it ever without serious inflation and currency destruction, period, full stop, forget anything else.  The fucking world is drowning in paper promises and can't deliver.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:33 | 2912642 RSloane
RSloane's picture

Paper - not good with neither mustard nor mayo. He can't unwind, the hunger and fear of hunger would crush nations.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:24 | 2912597 fuu
fuu's picture

Please explain the mechanism for Ben being unemployed in January 2013.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:42 | 2912677 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

He'll be at GS's or Citi, or take over for that Moynihan character at BOA.

Definitely not unemployed.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:44 | 2912687 fuu
fuu's picture

So he is going to resign in 2013?

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:50 | 2912706 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

I haven't heard that rumor, but Marc Faber thinks he should:

"If I were Bernanke for sure I would resign after having messed up the US and as badly as Mr Bernanke and Mr Greenspan have done over the last fifteen years,"

He also suggests sending every household a check for $5 million; I'm ready for mine.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:53 | 2912722 fuu
fuu's picture

Again with a chairmanship that extends through 1/31/14 and a Board position through 2020 how is he going to be unemployed in 2013?

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:34 | 2912870 Sandy15
Sandy15's picture

No, but Romney said he would get rid of the Bernack.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 12:01 | 2912890 fuu
fuu's picture

How? You have no fucking clue do you?

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 12:46 | 2913082 Likstane
Likstane's picture

Do you think Bernankinsteins masters are somehow loyal to him?  Is the grand Chairman some kinda protected from being cast out to the halls of GS?  Maybe he doesn't have a clue, and maybe you don't either.  Benank could slip on a piece of fruit or get hit by a stray drone for all we know.  The dude does't look all that comfortable when he has to speak in public. 

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 12:54 | 2913104 fuu
fuu's picture

Of course his "masters" have no loyalty to the man. The astroturf over the last week that somehow Romney is going to ditch the Beard in January 2013 and carry us all on his unicorn to the land of milk and honey is bullshit.

The people spewing that message are bullshitters as well.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 12:05 | 2912960 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture



True Sandy and OMG if obama's re-elected the NY Slimes say's Geithner might be the Fed head because the chair satan....


Casting Dual Roles, at Treasury and the Fed


But there is another wrinkle in the parlor game calculus: Ben Bernanke, the Federal Reserve chairman, is likely to need a successor, too. If Mitt Romney wins the presidency, he has already pledged he will replace Mr. Bernanke, whose term as chairman ends in January 2014, in just over 15 months. However, Mr. Bernanke has told close friends that even if Mr. Obama wins, he probably will not stand for re-election.



"Now, on to the role of Federal Reserve chairman under President Obama.

 It is slim pickings. At the top of the list is Lawrence Summers, Treasury secretary under President Clinton and director of the National Economic Council for President Obama. He’s a serious economist who knows his numbers and has a worldview that is similar to the president’s. He would be expected to continue the loose money policy of Mr. Bernanke.

 There are a couple of other names in the Democratic economist world, but virtually all of them would be long shots: Janet L. Yellen, the vice chairwoman of the Federal Reserve. She would be the first woman to run the Federal Reserve and could provide some continuity. Alan Krueger, an economist who was briefly an assistant secretary of the Treasury for economic policy under President Obama, is less of a classic choice, but is considered highly by the president.

If you want to be really daring, let’s add one more name to the list, perhaps the perfect candidate from the president’s perspective: Mr. Geithner. He would have had a year to recover from his current position and may have tired of the speaking circuit. Given his former role as the president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York during the financial crisis, he would bring steadiness to the job with Mr. Bernanke’s departure, and a level of comfort for the president.

This story originally appeared in The New York Times"


Tue, 10/23/2012 - 12:11 | 2912987 fuu
fuu's picture

Are Timmah, Larry, or Alan even on the Board of Governors? Wait nope.

Thanks for the Times puff piece though.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 12:37 | 2913056 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture



Hey smartguy lol the president appoints the board of governors and he appoints the Fed chairman 

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 12:48 | 2913085 fuu
fuu's picture

Hey dumbass they are confirmed by the Senate and only 1 of them has a term expiring before 2015. Can you name that person?

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:40 | 2912889 Sandy15
Sandy15's picture

REALLY??  I get the negative arrow because I speak about the Bernack buying up the market through print and pump...... Many of you say the same, ZH says the same, but I get the down arrow for basically saying the same.  The Bernack has NOT allowed the market to sell off since QE anything was in affect.  But the day he announces retirement the market sells off..........this is not a coincidence.


Tue, 10/23/2012 - 12:12 | 2912970 fuu
fuu's picture

The indexes have been dropping since Thursday of last week except for the EOD pop yesterday. So your comment is full of shit.


Tue, 10/23/2012 - 13:13 | 2913158 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture



Sandy bernanke could also be removed by Romney for cause or amend the Federal Reserve Act thru Congress

 Term of Office; Chairman and Vice Chairman

The members of the Board shall be ineligible during the time they are in office and for two years thereafter to hold any office, position, or employment in any member bank, except that this restriction shall not apply to a member who has served the full term for which he was appointed. Upon the expiration of the term of any appointive member of the Federal Reserve Board in office on the date of enactment of the Banking Act of 1935, the President shall fix the term of the successor to such member at not to exceed fourteen years, as designated by the President at the time of nomination, but in such manner as to provide for the expiration of the term of not more than one member in any two-year period, and thereafter each member shall hold office for a term of fourteen years from the expiration of the term of his predecessor, unless sooner removed for cause by the President

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:22 | 2912582 Overfed
Overfed's picture

As of this writing, DJIA down over 200 points in 45 minutes.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:26 | 2912604 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

wake me up when its down a thousand and I'll begin to think something is really happening

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:42 | 2912678 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Good point. The algos can always ramp it back up. Until they can't.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:30 | 2912631 Schlomo Bergstein
Schlomo Bergstein's picture

History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:27 | 2912609 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Quick!  Cash out your 401ks and hold onto the cash!

King Dollar!

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:33 | 2912647 fuu
fuu's picture


Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:46 | 2912698 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

"Cash out your 401ks..."

Trying to help out the government with the 401k withdrawal penalty since normal tax collections are down.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 12:08 | 2912980 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

 ?% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

You are the greater fool if you still have a 401k.

You have been warned.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 13:57 | 2913287 Alpha Monkey
Alpha Monkey's picture

Kind of sucked having to quit my job to get mine... oh no wait, it was wonderful quitting my job.  But for the average joe... I don't think they will be quite as quick to join me.  I would recommend at least stopping contributions.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:28 | 2912612 So-Crates_Johnsen
So-Crates_Johnsen's picture

I just bid 10,000 shares of AAPL @ $14,200.

I was filled and saved the market.

Ancient Greece, Bitchez!

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:29 | 2912628 news printer
news printer's picture
The Crash of 1929

Originally produced in the mid-1990s, this film remains the most authoritative account of the Crash of 1929, includes rare testimony from the people who worked on Wall Street at the time

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:32 | 2912635 The big unzip
The big unzip's picture

Is the game now afoot, 

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:34 | 2912653 hedgehog9999
hedgehog9999's picture

I love this crashy flashy environment, nice and slow, it gives you time to get quotes, analyze short and VST charts, etc.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:42 | 2912681 hedgehog9999
hedgehog9999's picture

Speeding up a bit, PPT to he rescue.....

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:38 | 2912658 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

"Despite the fact that no one would use such tainted data, prices began to steady."

This is why I love Art's pieces.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:41 | 2912669 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

My thesis is bullish.  The only black day that is coming is a 25% up day ala Zimbabwe.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:41 | 2912679 machineh
machineh's picture

"Radio" which had opened at 68 3/4 now showed on the tape at 8 3/4. But prices were moving so fast that the price was not 58 3/4 but 48 3/4 on its way to 48 1/4 before it would bottom in the afternoon at 44 1/2. 

For 'Radio' substitute 'AAPL'.

Where is the 'iPad Mini' rally that we were promised?

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:45 | 2912688 rajc
rajc's picture

CMG and GOOG to rescue. they are up :)

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:49 | 2912705 Kastorsky
Kastorsky's picture

Oh, I see, FB is the new safe haven!

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:53 | 2912709 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

Bearish hyperbole as a response to being wrong about everything.  Good luck fighting off 20 billion a week being injected into the markets, Mr Cashin.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:59 | 2912754 Conman
Conman's picture

Albert H. Wiggin - look that name up. You underestimate the greddiness of bankers. I know some of my best friends work for hte big names. They are good guys but greddy motherfuckers.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:08 | 2912785 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

I don't underestimate their greed.  I know what they are doing.  I can smell the panic stink on the cornered shorts.  This is going much higher and all they want is to cover. 

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:51 | 2912714 Wave-Tech
Wave-Tech's picture

Everything you need to know about the DOW for the next 25-years.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:04 | 2912743 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture


First, define your timeframes (short-term/medium-term/long-term) and objectives for each.  Second, allocateinvestment and trading funds accordingly to engage each timeframe.  Third, diversify your funds to engage in both a wide sampling of broad markets as well as select individual stocks.  Fourth, identify and employ mechanical entry/exit strategies that have a proven quantifiable  edge to capture the lion’s share of trends within each of these  timeframes.  Finally yet importantly, as a staple insurance policy to insure sustainable wealth, periodically rebalance and maintain 10% - 20% of your entire net worth in physical Gold and Silver coins.



10-20%? I'd say 60-75% physical and 25-40% in land and the protection there of.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:06 | 2912779 hedgehog9999
hedgehog9999's picture

But the guideline in this rarefied stock market environment is : 

     Wheather you are long the market or getting a blow job from a toothless 80 year old woman, the rule is the same "DO NOT LOOK DOWN"

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 10:57 | 2912746 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Where is the exit? Oh shit there are about ten thousand people in front of me.....this is gonna hurt. 

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:00 | 2912753 Mattress Money
Mattress Money's picture

I find this hilirious red days are sooo rare, everyone gets a little giddy, when the market drops  a little, NO way banks and feds let the market drop. Its just a tactic to scare retail investers out of their shares, and get those who are addicted to the market buy high.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:13 | 2912801 riphowardkatz
riphowardkatz's picture

because banks would never short on the way down and buy at 20% lower. Oh wait that is what the have been doing for the last 3 years.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:00 | 2912756 adr
adr's picture

If CMG, Priceline, AZO, GMCR, Buffalo Wild Wings, and Amazon all go up it is the PPT big green button being hit.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:01 | 2912759 Grand Supercycle
Grand Supercycle's picture

SP500 impending sell off...

Despite recurring short squeezes, SPX etc daily charts continue to break down.

DOW 8 hour chart shows H+S (bearish pattern)

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:05 | 2912775 Ted Baker
Ted Baker's picture


Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:06 | 2912780 jjsilver
jjsilver's picture

It's time to bring out the flight to safety in bonds story and out of that risky asset called Gold. Or the de-leveraging story, or the dollar is strong so gold is weak story, all designed for covering up the criminal manipulation of the metals. However, even the unwashed are starting to question this wash and rinse cycle story. We can only hope.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:10 | 2912796 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



Barry's campaign needs a lift.  The manufactured appearance of a stronger dollar helps, but getting the crude price sucked down with the vortex is more important.  Losing a couple percent on the equities is of no matter.

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:14 | 2912802 jjsilver
jjsilver's picture

wag the dog

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:54 | 2912926 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture



Who was that mystery man in 2008?


Wall Street’s Collapse to Be Mystery Forever: Jonathan Weil


Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:07 | 2912782 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



Can HFT bots jump out of windows?

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:12 | 2912800 RSBriggs
RSBriggs's picture

Yes, but they can also lower the windows to ground level before jumping....

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:25 | 2912839 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Not sure how they would run on a Mac (?).

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:27 | 2912845 RSBriggs
RSBriggs's picture

I see what you did there....

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:15 | 2912807 resurger
resurger's picture

Let the bitch bleed

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:41 | 2912891 virgilcaine
virgilcaine's picture

Still Short this pig..

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:42 | 2912897 LiesAreTheOnlyTruth
LiesAreTheOnlyTruth's picture

Shorts have been killed, by market action and requirement changes ... while insiders have sold billions to hundreds of thousands.  Insiders have been selling like mad all year ... someone got out in time :)

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:43 | 2912898 crimson
crimson's picture

The funds and algos are all selling,

All the live long day.

The funds and algos are all selling,

So get out of the effin' way.

Else, your broker comes and gets you

Margin call comes knockin' at the door.

The funds, and algos are all sellin'


Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:49 | 2912909 virgilcaine
virgilcaine's picture

Have to agree with the insiders, pulling 10k shares of Goog 'out of thin air' and then dumping them for 3 Mil.  The mkt is the Pig Casino and is going down.. have a nice trip PIGS>

Tue, 10/23/2012 - 11:57 | 2912935 FreeMktFisherMN
FreeMktFisherMN's picture

too bad the cost of living won't be decreasing along with the drop in stocks. I'll just go back to my example of a burger and fries at Buffalo Joe's in Evanston costing 6.99 a few days ago and 6.25 back in June. The inflation is right there. 

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