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Presidential Election Preview 2: Where They Stand And Why It Matters

Tyler Durden's picture




 

The 2012 US presidential election is perhaps one of the most unique and important elections in recent history from an economic perspective (with the time-line rapidly approaching). In choosing its leader for the next four years (for which we provide a handy 'where-do-they-stand' cheatsheet), we agree with Goldman that the country will likely be determining the path for near-term economic growth, medium-to-longer term fiscal stability and monetary policy at a time when the stakes are exceptionally high - whether or not the US economy returns to recessionary conditions in 2013, the US sovereign debt rating and the broader credibility of the US government to Americans and foreigners alike all hang in the balance. Goldman sees three factors that set the 2012 election apart.

 

 

Via Alec Phillips, US Political Economist at Goldman Sachs:

Legislative inaction now a greater risk than legislative action

 

The potential for legislative inaction may pose a greater risk and more uncertainty than legislative action, suggesting that the one almost foregone outcome of the current election - divided government - poses greater challenges than in the past. Typically, divided government is viewed as a constructive political outcome by markets as it (normally) reduces the likelihood of major policy change and hence policy uncertainty.

 

But in the current environment the opposite may be true, as Congress must take action (by year-end in many instances) to avoid large (and mostly undesired) shifts in policy. This is because policy has become more temporary, mainly owing to the congressional budget process, which measures the cost of legislation over ten years and thus makes temporary legislation appear less expensive than longer-lasting policies.

 

The glaring risk in front of Congress is the “fiscal cliff” - roughly 3.5% of GDP in tax increases and spending cuts set to occur at year-end. This makes the 2012 election one of only a few contests in which such a large fiscal policy shift was on the table so soon after the election took place (2008 is arguably another example, when the election represented, in part, a referendum on the size and composition of a stimulus package expected to be passed early in the following year). Our base case is that Congress will just barely reach an agreement before the end of the year, averting most of this fiscal restraint, but it is quite possible that Congress could fail to address the issue by that deadline, leading to a substantial fiscal drag on growth, at least temporarily.

 

A status quo political outcome raises the risk of a game of fiscal “chicken” at year end, in which policy goes “off the cliff” unless one party reverses their long-held position on the upper income portion of the 2001/2003 tax cut (luckily for the US economy—and unlike the real game of “chicken”—a retroactive extension is possible in early 2013). A Romney win seems more likely to lead to a short-term extension of the 2001/2003 tax cuts and some aspects of the fiscal cliff. In either scenario, it is imperative that Congress act, which is a unique and important difference from typical elections, with the economic consequences of them failing to do so potentially recessionary.

 

The fiscal stakes are higher than they have been in decades

 

Beyond the fiscal cliff, the winner in November will face a potentially frustrating fiscal landscape: on one hand, the elevated level of debt—around 75% of GDP and rising—limits the fiscal room to maneuver. On the other hand, the Treasury’s exceptionally cheap interest expense—around 1.4% of GDP, less than half the level that prompted deficit reduction efforts in the late 1980s and 1990s—has dulled the pressure on lawmakers to tackle these issues. This should be a recipe for inaction. But two issues will likely raise the stakes in reaching a longer-term fiscal agreement early on in the next administration:

 

(1) the need to once again increase the debt ceiling which congressional Republicans would like to match with deficit reduction (over ten years) of an equal amount, and

(2) the renewed threat of a sovereign downgrade by the ratings agencies, who have signaled as much if the US doesn’t stabilize its debt ratio by mid-decade.

 

A deficit reduction agreement of $2 trillion over ten years could resolve both issues, but with the easy cuts already made in last year’s debt limit agreement, only the most difficult aspects of a fiscal “grand bargain” remain.

 

Monetary policy in (political) focus

 

Elected officials have hardly been indifferent to monetary policy in the past, but there have been few elections where Fed policy was as widely debated as it is today. Compounding this is the expiration of Chairman Bernanke’s term in January 2014; Romney has already indicated that he will not nominate Chairman Bernanke for another term. While Romney is not alone in making his intentions to replace the chairman clear, what makes this situation unique is that it comes at a time when the Fed is pursuing unconventional policy that depends much more than usual on a forward commitment that occurs mostly past the end of the current Chairman’s tenure.

 

 

Any of these issues would make the upcoming election an important one for the economic outlook, but the combination of a near-term risk in the fiscal cliff, increasingly problematic medium-term fiscal dynamics, and election-driven uncertainty on monetary policy at a time when the credibility of future commitments is necessary for its success make this a unique election, with potentially substantial and far-reaching economic impacts.

 

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Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:02 | 2919961 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

George Soros counting black box voting, bitchez!

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:04 | 2919968 true brain
true brain's picture

Obaromney, Obaromney. Now say it with me. Obaramney, yes we can.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:14 | 2919996 john39
john39's picture

both obama and romney are distant relatives of the Bush family.  figure it out people, you get no say in who runs the country or how it is run.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:18 | 2920014 malikai
malikai's picture

Romney/Ryan are going to try to get a balanced budget amendment in the constitution?

LOL!@#$

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:37 | 2920050 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

OMG! IF we don't act now to borrow from the future, we will lose 3.5% of GDP now!

Uh, what are our children going to do in the future to replace the GDP that was stolen from them now?  

Oh, yeah, I forgot ... they won't have to worry because WWIII will be the mother of all resets.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:40 | 2920055 malikai
malikai's picture

Long southern hemisphere.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:42 | 2920060 Surly Bear
Surly Bear's picture

Presidential Election Preview 2: Where They Stand And Why It Does Not Matter

There. Fix'd. Yeah, this is what I told my dad last night on the phone.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 19:50 | 2920203 macholatte
macholatte's picture

 

 

  • Communist vs Capitalist

 

  • Muslim vs Christian

 

  • Blue Progressive vs Red Progressive

 

 

 

 

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 20:00 | 2920225 MisterMousePotato
Thu, 10/25/2012 - 20:46 | 2920310 caconhma
caconhma's picture

I don't like Romney at all. He is POS.

 

But voting for Obama or writing in Ron Paul will lead to the Obama's 2nd term. The results will be

·      Collapse of the US economy

·      Hyperinflation

·      Flood of illegal immigrants with Mexican drug-lords coming to your town

·      Civil unrest

 

Obama and his union bosses’ supporters must be stopped. He is too dangerous for the economy and the social order. Obama has ruined the US legal system already.

 

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 21:19 | 2920365 UGrev
UGrev's picture

how about everyone else grows a mother-fucking pair of balls and writes in Ron Paul instead of acting like a bunch scared little children and running for their woobie....

Fri, 10/26/2012 - 00:31 | 2920669 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

Write in Ron Paul when we stand to lose to Obama?

They call it falling on your sword for a reason.  We voted for RP during the primaries.  

Ron Burgundy says to no to cat poop.  We will not eat cat poop to prove a point.  So we write in RP, will you bring me a big steak?

 

Fri, 10/26/2012 - 08:07 | 2920977 UGrev
UGrev's picture

Because it's going to make a fucking difference to us if you vote for the same evil? yes.. they are both the same. Failure to realize this and to act upon this is sheer idiocy. 

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 22:04 | 2920459 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

caconhma said:

I don't like Romney at all. He is POS.

 

But voting for Obama or writing in Ron Paul will lead to the Obama's 2nd term. The results will be...

...the same, regardless of whether Obama or Romney wins.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 23:12 | 2920577 caconhma
caconhma's picture

Before playing a smart ass, one must ask him/herself: Do I want Obama in the White House for 4 more years?

Right now, this is the question. The rest is BS and propaganda.

PS

As for Ron Paul, he is gone from politics. Period. This is the reality.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 23:46 | 2920619 UGrev
UGrev's picture

The reality is that the vast and proper majority of voters who think the only answer is to elect a person who was successful in banning guns and instituting a take over of healthcare are dumber than a box of liberals.  Go ahead.. vote for him.. show the WORLD what a bunch of fucking hypocrites you are REALLY are.. 

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 20:04 | 2920233 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Stop being such and alarmist. Oh....

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:28 | 2920035 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Somehow, this will all tie in to jooos, 911 and chem trails...I can just feel it.

But I have to ask (and I know I'll be sorry...lol) how much of a distant relative is O'Barry to the Bush family?...O'Barry's a closet Mormon ain't he? ;-)

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 19:08 | 2920112 knukles
knukles's picture

HAARP.
Don't forget HAARP.

Now listen.... There was this article about a week ago that the HAARP magic beams were workin' big time magic over the Eastern Seaboard.
And the this storm develops.
Here's an updated article (not the original from a week ago... it had forecast a big time problem over a week ago...)

Now, I am not an acolyte, subscribing to this stuff.
BUT, coincidences when repeated so many time get creepy, and this is just one of many.....

http://beforeitsnews.com/paranormal/2012/10/east-coast-haarp-mega-storm-...

Now, the best ting about this kinda stuff is the lunatic fringe comments it develops.
Beats the shit outa Honey Boo Boo, Jersey Shore and the like.

But Adult Swim and Robot Chicken still rule....

 

Oh and why's this apropos to a thread on the election, mayhaps the most meaningful election in generations?
Because it's about as relevant.....

Like a promise to cut the federal deficit from 23% to 20% or GDP whilst promising a balanced budget amendment.
My loins hurt

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 19:25 | 2920147 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"We think Hurricane Sandy is being steered into the USA. Since this showed up over a week ago before anyone started talking about the storm, do feel we are seeing a controlled storm. If the storm tries to leave into the ocean away from the United States and steers back west toward it then it would prove that HAARP can steer storms."

ROTFL!!!

Never paid much attention to HAARP aficionados...now I know why ;-)

"Now, the best ting about this kinda stuff is the lunatic fringe comments it develops."

Kinda like finding iron & aluminum oxide dust after a building collapses and trees being raped by old man winter year after year...lol.

"But Adult Swim and Robot Chicken still rule...."

Web Redemption!!!

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 19:39 | 2920177 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

My Lunatic Fringe Comment:

Let's see, storm hits on Halloween (10/31) thereby making it impossible for SNAP card users to stock up because their cards are at about zero by the end of the month...Electricity out for 10 days...no EBT cards working either.  YIKES.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 19:59 | 2920223 nmewn
nmewn's picture

No EBT candy corn?

PANIC!!!

 

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 20:08 | 2920240 knukles
knukles's picture

Riots in the flooded streets!
I can see it now, thousands on tippie toes screaming at the top of there lungs, wading ever so slowly toward wherever they'd decide to wade.  Million man wade-a-thon.  Give every man woman and child a bar of soap....

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 20:20 | 2920257 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Save the flat screens and liqour first!!!

Oh God the humanity of it all ;-)

Fri, 10/26/2012 - 01:08 | 2920709 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

Will ObamaPhones still be functional in such an event?  Well, at least with flooded streets they won't be able to burn down their homes and what little business remains in the getto after that Rodney King thingy.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 19:43 | 2920183 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Israeli intelligence indicates that the Iranians have a secret underground facility from which this storm in particular seems to be generating........

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 20:09 | 2920243 XitSam
XitSam's picture

... via jet contrails ...

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 20:21 | 2920259 knukles
knukles's picture

Chemtrails.
True story... "Only in California Story"
probably about 8 or so years ago one of the local newspapers ran a local map on the front page with flight paths over it with the accompanying headline "Stop sending us letters about Chemtrails" or something of that ilk.
They noted that the flight paths represented a portion of the great polar route between California and Asian airports.
Whole bunches of local folks had been sending letters to the editor demanding they do something about this Chemtrail spraying over the local area which they claimed the Government was doing "in order to get people to vote Republican"

Only in California

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 20:28 | 2920273 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Arnold's Fault!!!...he was channeling Ray-Gun!!!

Its all true...I seen it on da web!!!

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 20:38 | 2920290 Hulk
Hulk's picture

You two obviously haven't had enough George Noory...

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 20:51 | 2920321 nmewn
nmewn's picture

lol...theres more than a few making a decent living off of really REALLY off the wall stuff. But hey, as long as the peeps don't elect one of them to the presi...oh, wait...they did.

Well now, clearly we need more carnival barkers to choose from...the cream always rises to the top!

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 20:30 | 2920276 Heyoka Bianco
Heyoka Bianco's picture

Where in California? All of inland California is staunchly Republican.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 21:45 | 2920419 knukles
knukles's picture

Central Coast area in a pleasant spot of paradise somewhwere between the shit holes of LA and SF

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 20:22 | 2920260 nmewn
nmewn's picture

...from south Lebanon.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 20:04 | 2920231 James
Thu, 10/25/2012 - 20:17 | 2920254 nmewn
nmewn's picture

If we go back far enough...either through evolutionary or creationist theory...we're all related, we are not unique snowflakes in that regard. I have (and you have) tenth cousins wé don't even know about.

Its intriguing but thats about as far as it goes. I'm related to English royalty through my mother but her father was a simple farmer in south Georgia who worked his thirteen kids in the fields in order to survive.

I was more intrigued by O'Barry being related to a Bush...lol.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 20:41 | 2920295 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Can you imagine the fucking transition from england to georgia? They must have yearned for the days of summer fog , come August !!!

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 21:09 | 2920349 nmewn
nmewn's picture

It was a long transition.

I have an aunt & uncle who's really into tracing that sides (maternal) geneology. One of them/mine (ancestor) was a captain in North Carolina during the Revolutionary War before moving on to Georgia.

Another one on that same side...came here as an indentured servant (a slave to the government educated kiddies following along at home...lol)...its really fascinating stuff.

Same "roots"...two different paths.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 20:35 | 2920284 literarybeer
literarybeer's picture

what is your evidence of this?

 

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 21:54 | 2920441 john39
john39's picture

try a search engine... its public knowledge. Bush, Obama, Cheney, Romney, Truman.. all related, with many other presidents and English royalty. inbred garbage:

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/regional/item_KJXdKMwZqBgHPdXXdGWnEP

http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/12/20/family-ties-ancestry-com-finds-that-...

Fri, 10/26/2012 - 07:58 | 2920963 kralizec
kralizec's picture

Uhh, yeah...lets go back far enough and...oops, that pecker poked the wrong wench, OMG!  A conspiracy!  LOL!

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:15 | 2919999 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Only an idiot would think this election matters from an economic perspective.

And by 'idiot,' I mean 'voter.'

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:36 | 2920048 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Speaking of idiots, "Republican" Colon Powell said he would vote for Obama again.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:39 | 2920053 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Gee, I guess that makes him a White House Ne.... Never mind. Don't want to go there

Fri, 10/26/2012 - 07:59 | 2920966 kralizec
kralizec's picture

< - - Senile?

< - - Can't see past skin color?

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:17 | 2920004 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

I wasn't going to vote..  But I saw Rosanne Barr has her name on the ballot..

Awesome..

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 23:33 | 2920032 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

I wrote in Ron Paul... not because I agree with everything but to send a message, I guess.

These two war mongering, rights stealin', corporate muppets can go f*ck themselves.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:41 | 2920059 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Wouldn't it have been precious to see Roseanne debating Big O and Ward Cleaver?

For that matter, if the had let Gary Johnson in the debates, he would have wiped the floor with them; good thing the Party has control of things.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:49 | 2920069 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Gary Johnson is not a libertarian. Look up his interview with the daily caller.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 19:16 | 2920134 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Who cares. The point is that he delivers his talking points spot on, and they have substance.

Did you notice that the MSM debates covered nothing of substance to an ordinary American?

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:27 | 2920033 BreadnH2O
BreadnH2O's picture

Shouldn't that be "yes we ---" :might, perhaps could, definitely maybe will, have our hands in a cookie jar, have our hands in cuffs and lost the keys, Will as soon as unicorns shoot $kitt£€$ out their arses?

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:30 | 2919992 alstry
alstry's picture

"only a slave must labor for money that a banker can print"

http://www.udderworld.com

It will be interesting to see how many slaves vote this upcoming election for their master

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 19:44 | 2920189 Ness.
Ness.'s picture

Please stop pimping cowworld.com. on every post.

 

 

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 20:43 | 2920302 RSBriggs
RSBriggs's picture

That's all he ever does.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 21:00 | 2920306 RKDS
RKDS's picture

If you go back about a year, there was another guy/bot who used to pimp a different website at the end of every thread.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:16 | 2920006 Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

Two peas from the same pod.

 

http://ericsprott.blogspot.ca/

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:54 | 2920088 Mr Pink
Mr Pink's picture

Me thinks someone is placing too much value on the power of the puppet

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:03 | 2919965 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

You Choose, We Lose

None of the Above 2012

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:23 | 2920027 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

You choose or you don't choose, we lose.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:36 | 2920047 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

You can always choose not to choose.

Not that it matters.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:03 | 2919966 GernB
GernB's picture

Is it Romama or Obamney?

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:53 | 2920085 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

Ill be voting for the party that promises to start the most wars, print the most money and bail out the most bankers...............hows that for ya?

 

wanna know why they call it a duopoly?............cause fuck you was already taken...........

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:05 | 2919969 RmcAZ
RmcAZ's picture

I stopped reading when I saw "Obama: Cut spending... Romney: Cut spending..."

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:17 | 2920009 socalbeach
socalbeach's picture

You got farther than I did, which was the title.

... Where They Stand And Why It Matters

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:43 | 2920064 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Talk about jumping the shark....

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 20:58 | 2920336 gabeh73
gabeh73's picture

I only read further because I was waiting for the punchline.

 

Is the propaganda quality actually in decline or am I just seeing more clearly? Who believes this shit?

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:05 | 2919972 Duke of Con Dao
Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:08 | 2919977 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Squid's still pretending that elected humans run the show.....funnneee.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:08 | 2919980 Ineverslice
Ineverslice's picture

 

QE is all that matters.....Get to the choppa, lol.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:08 | 2919981 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

Hugh hendry is wrong.

 

Gold miners wwent up thousands of percent during the great depression (deflation) and they went up thousands of percent in the 80s.

 

This time is diffrent Hugh ?

 

Im officially calling this the bottom of the gold miners bear market.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:17 | 2920008 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

What will the miners be priced in?

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'....

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:20 | 2920018 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

Either or.

Miners went up crazy in the gold backed USD during the depresssion and the unbakced dollar in the 80s

 

this time is diffrent ?

 

just sayin..

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:39 | 2920052 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Can I get tulips or seashells instead of paper or digits when I sell?

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:57 | 2920095 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

the concept of meduim of exchange will always exist. the euro will probably be the moe

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 19:30 | 2920149 hangemhigh
hangemhigh's picture

@Spitzer

Im officially calling this the bottom of the gold miners bear market.

gdxj @ 23.43...support is 50D MA @ 23.37....200D MA @ 23.06....forming the handle as we speak

Resistance is 50 Week MA @ 23.79.... break above $25 = $31......NATH @ $45.....

theres gotta be some mighty tight sphincters spasming inside them gold shorts......................

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:22 | 2920022 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

With the exception of Barrick, et al. (in order to maintain a free-market facade), all miners will be Chavezed.

I don't understand why people have such a hard time understanding how criminal enterprises operate. The instant their hegemony is threatened they will steal everything they can get their hands on in the name of "the people."

In other words, this time ISN'T different. You're just focusing on the wrong topic.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:10 | 2919985 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Hope for Change - Romney 2012!

Just kidding - I won't get fooled again.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:11 | 2919987 Misean
Misean's picture

"Where They Stand And Why It Matters"

With a boot planted firmly on the peasants' necks I suspect.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:11 | 2919988 davhay
davhay's picture

Colonoscopy tomorrow. Cleanse is going well, thanks for asking!

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:19 | 2920015 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Today is worse than tomorrow. Chugging litres of seawater just plain sucks.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 19:18 | 2920135 knukles
knukles's picture

Rohypnol.
The breakfast of champions.

 

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:12 | 2919989 Doubleguns
Doubleguns's picture

Both party's will spend us blind. They just have different shopping lists.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:13 | 2919991 vix is for kids
vix is for kids's picture

"Where they stand and why it matters"

They stand within inches of each other, and it doesn't friggin matter.

 

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:13 | 2919993 news printer
news printer's picture
Greek debt will be above the target of 120 percent of GDP in 2020

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/25/eurozone-greece-idUSL6E8LP0022...

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:13 | 2919995 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

The stooges are the same.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZLqsRqKFyI

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:18 | 2920011 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Oh, wise guy, eh?

Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:18 | 2920012 RiverRoad
RiverRoad's picture

Reminds me of the words of wisdom spoken by the guru in the movie "Passage to India":  Whether you do something, or whether you do nothing, the outcome will be the same."

The sun is slowly setting on American hegemony and power will move to the East.  This is all part of the uncomfortable process.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:20 | 2920017 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Trying to convince people that there is any difference whatsoever between candidates is completely laughable.

Fri, 10/26/2012 - 01:25 | 2920735 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

Let me repete very significant differences for those who didn't examine the table.

No tax on dividends or cap gains for incomes less the $200K.  Why should income be taxed twice?

Elimination of the estate (death) tax.  Why should wealth which was already taxed by taxed again upon death?

Budget limited to 20% of GDP (Starve the beast).  A government that can't survive on 20% of GDP doesn't deserve to survive.

No Obamacare

Territorial Income Tax.

I like all of these, don't you?

How about these?

Medicaid converted into a block grant program (no longer an entitlement)

Medicare converted into a voucher type program then eventually eliminated.

I'm willing to take a chance that even one of the above would be executed under Romney.  With Obama its a EU-type social welfare state with the entire private sector in a demoralized state (think France).  And we might even get the worse idea ever conceived-cap and trade-run by GS and JPM.

 

 

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:22 | 2920021 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Goldman Sacks pontificating on known knowns...I would say four years too late.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:22 | 2920023 Motorhead
Motorhead's picture

Really, a president[al candidate] who is for states rights?  Come on, let's get real!

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 19:55 | 2920215 Ness.
Ness.'s picture

Really, a President who's community organizing experience left his 'community' with one of the highest murder rates, lowest graduation rates and highest AA unemployment rates in the country?  Needless to say (but I will), and a State considered the most politically corrupt and deepest in debt in the country.

 

Really?

 

 

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:27 | 2920031 jjsilver
jjsilver's picture

Organic Laws of the United States of America limit federal taxation and legislation to the territory owned by or subject to the exclusive legislative power of the United States of America

United States Territorries: District of Columbia, Guam, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, American Samoa, the Northern Mariana Islands and the trust territory of the Pacific Islands

“Citizenship for Dummies”
http://www.supremelaw.org/authors/mitchell/citizenship.for.dummies.htm

American Governance
http://www.usavsus.info/

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 19:55 | 2920202 honestann
honestann's picture

The only problems are:
#1:  So-called "laws" are arbitrary fiction.
#2:  predators-DBA-government follows no laws.

Oh, and I do not consent to be governed... and never have.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:28 | 2920034 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

I'm sorry I think I misread the title as :"Presidential Election Preview 2: Where They Stand and Why It Doesn't Matter." Get serious, neither one of these clowns will reduce government spending. Romney may reduce some regulations to help growth, but not if the corporate masters don't want him to. I'm still writing in Ron Paul (if I can write in Vice President I'm adding Ross Perot to my ticket).

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:29 | 2920037 uncle reggie
uncle reggie's picture

To the contrary, this election is the most pointless in my lifetime. There is no difference between the two other than style. Meet the new boss....

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:32 | 2920043 phoolish
phoolish's picture

The problem w/ what Robme says is that it is what every Red-Corporatopublican has said for the last 30+ years ... and then once elected they do esssentially the opposite.  There is no representation for actual fiscal conservatism.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:35 | 2920045 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Aww SHIT! Assemble and deploy ZH Omega Response Team 1 immediately!  We have a Tyler down, I repeat, we have a Tyler down! 

Secret trigger codewords have been used, "one of the most unique and important elections in recent history". 

Mission Objective:  Find and and destroy the imposter Tyler before he tells us it is our patriotic duty to vote. Intelligence gathered from the above diatribe indicates that GS is involved.  Use extreme prejudice and terminate.

 

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:42 | 2920061 Wakanda
Wakanda's picture

TD must be desperate or stoned to post this shit.  He should go to Huffpo.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 19:25 | 2920148 knukles
knukles's picture

The other day I was asked if I was stoned to which I replied that they'd "confused stoned with serenity."

Another bloke was droning on about the election and asked "Why are you ignoring me?"  To which I replied; "I'm not ignoring you, I place no value in your opinion."

Maybe Ty's distracted, pushing out a big one... or being sarcastic. 

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:51 | 2920075 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Up next on the McLaughlin Group: Santa Claus, or the Tooth Fairy? Who really delivers the goods?

Pat Buchanan?

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:55 | 2920056 Duke of Con Dao
Duke of Con Dao's picture

lighten up... 7 minuses

ok, it's about Mitt... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNIj3UJz-X4

I have an Obama version in the works...       

ps: I promise I won't vid-mash  trash Ron Paul!   duke

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:43 | 2920063 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

Disposition Matrix....

code words for the USA landscape post 2012 Presidential "Selection"

human fracking....all great totalitarian states need a proper purging...to support the Motherland

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:51 | 2920067 GNWT
GNWT's picture

is this a goof?

most important election - of two puppets saying the same thing?...

choose your stalin...choose your idi amin...

don't have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows...

g

stay liquid my friends

ps rocky anderson for pres...rocky rocks

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 20:40 | 2920293 Quantum Future
Quantum Future's picture

So we agree no matter who is elected we are heading for a crash. Cast your vote then based on which master would you prefer divvying up the spoils..... Alfalfa or Wally!

QF

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:50 | 2920074 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

I would imagine the critical difference in the minds of the GS analysts is that plan (heh) to eliminate the estate tax.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:51 | 2920078 DonGenaro
DonGenaro's picture

For crying out loud, these psychopaths don't "stand" for anything !

And any who think they do know *nothing* of psychopaths.

Is there ANY limit to how many lies some must hear from these ghouls before they stop wondering what they *really* believe ?

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 19:01 | 2920097 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Delete double post . Damn fat fingers.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 18:58 | 2920098 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

In government there are no accidents. This was all done by design. There is a reason that they set everything to expire until just after the elections, and that reason isn't to benefit any of us.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 19:07 | 2920116 fuu
fuu's picture

Fuck you Alec Phillips!

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 19:13 | 2920120 Coldfire
Coldfire's picture

It should matter which one of these two clown horns gets elected, but it won't make any difference. The election is a distraction designed to legitimize the continuing plunder of the nation by the money power. Keep dreaming that either Obama or Romney will change this course, rather than accelerate it.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 19:15 | 2920130 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

"...The 2012 US presidential election is perhaps one of the most unique and important elections in recent history ..."

they all are dontcha know....go fuck yourself....

a vote for obamney is a vote for tyranny - drones and ndaa coming your way baby

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 19:52 | 2920190 honestann
honestann's picture

In the absolute sense, it doesn't matter, because the USSA is finished --- the USSA is a malevolent police state and a menace on the world stage.  Signed, sealed and delivered.  The only difference between these two predators is tiny minor details in how the USSA becomes ever more egregious.

At this point in history, the bankster-predators behind the curtain assure both candidates are perfectly okay with them.  They couldn't care less which predator puppet executes their plans for the next 4 years.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 19:52 | 2920206 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

I've been telling the pollsters of late that "I am not voting for anyone because I'm sick and fucking tired of getting served up the same old shit year upon year only to helplessly watch my standard of living spin out of control into the abyss. Oh and have a nice day."

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 19:58 | 2920220 loveyajimbo
loveyajimbo's picture

Mitt needs to drop the no tax for income earned in other countries baloney.  Plus, he has not commented on ending the rampant corruption in politics and in business.  He also needs to stay firm on deporting parasites, or at least outlawing the payment of ANY benefits to them... including citizenship for babies dumped over here... turn prisons into forced labot camps to earn the expense back... lots of toxic waste and sewers and nuclear waste needs to be cleaned up...

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 20:02 | 2920228 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

The most hilarious part about this is that millions of Americans actually believe that their vote will make any difference.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 22:15 | 2920483 Monedas
Monedas's picture

People buy lottery tickets !

Fri, 10/26/2012 - 01:32 | 2920743 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

The lottery was the best way to directly tax stupidity without expensive IQ testing.  And it works doesn't it?  Casinos were the next best way.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 20:04 | 2920232 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

The headline in the paper is Obama voted early and often today in Chicago.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 20:09 | 2920236 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

WTF. Just tell me if I should buy or sell Treasuries if Obama wins.

Never mind, I know the answer. I should sell Treasuries even if God wins.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 20:08 | 2920239 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

If the NY Islanders taught us anything yesterday it's that after your glory years you can always move to a new home somewhere, hopefully not in the same county, state or country. You can even take most of your non-performing assets with you. 

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 20:28 | 2920272 jackes123
jackes123's picture

I'd say Americans are brainwashed successfully by Govt.

bunch of losers

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 20:48 | 2920312 RSBriggs
RSBriggs's picture

Yeah - they've pretty much bought into the "vote for Obama or don't vote at all" mental conditioning.  And they think they're WINNING.  Sad how people lock chains around their own necks and rationalize it...

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 21:40 | 2920411 SKY85hawk
SKY85hawk's picture

Do you remember 1969 thru 1981?

Recall the politician's responses.

It was a time of Stagflation.

The 'Bob Hope" generation entered their 'spend less-save more' life stage.  OUR Parents!

It should be clear that the baby-boom is now in the same life-stage.

Not one Politician will admit they are helpless to restart Economic Growth! 

They will wait this thing out, just like before.

We must demand cuts in wasteful/stupid Government spending, to match cuts in government revenue.

There are lots of things that America does right!  But, something has to change in the way politicians buy votes for 'favors'.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 21:45 | 2920422 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

They stand next to America with a big stick on one hand and an anal plug in the other.

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 21:52 | 2920434 hawk nation
hawk nation's picture

Vote based on an economic collapse and the person you want in power when it ocurs

If you think obama is looking out for your rights you have not been paying attention for 4 years 

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 21:54 | 2920440 The Gooch
Thu, 10/25/2012 - 22:07 | 2920468 Vooter
Vooter's picture

Fuck this country--I'm not voting. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney can get down on their knees and suck my balls. These people are spitting in your faces and laughing about it, and you're still gonna VOTE for them??? Jesus christ--what are you, retarded? WALK AWAY. Don't play. Don't participate. It's the only thing you have left...

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 22:13 | 2920476 10mm
10mm's picture

Obamny to Romba"Your a no good cock sucker".Romba to Obamny"Your a no good cock sucker".

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 22:20 | 2920492 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Obammy and his significunt other .... Michele and her black broccoli bush or maybe it's more like steel wool?

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 23:25 | 2920544 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

The 2012 US presidential election is perhaps one of the most unique and important elections in recent history from an economic perspective (with the time-line rapidly approaching).

Yep, Tyler's drinkin the red-blue koolaid, this is proof.

It doesn't matter one bit.  Wall Street runs America now.  Presidents are Wall Street puppets, congress are Wall Street prostitutes, Fed chairman is Wall Street errand boy ("yes masa, I doos it right now"). 

The looting will go on regardless who is elected, and Wall Street may finish looting America during the next presidential term. 

How will we know?  Simple.  USD collapse.

Fri, 10/26/2012 - 02:40 | 2920791 goodrich4bk
goodrich4bk's picture

What a joke.  Conservatives tell us that the number one problem is the deficit.  Then when the solution arrives, ie., increased taxes and decreased spending, they tell us it is a "fiscal cliff" that we cannot go off.

Let's face it.  The Dems want to borrow to spend, the Repubs want to borrow instead of tax.  Both want to borrow as much as possible for as long as possible and never have to repay it.  Because both parties are controlled by those who earn their living from the creation and collection of DEBT.

Fri, 10/26/2012 - 05:55 | 2920894 jack stephan
jack stephan's picture

You're in the land of frooze 
Where puppets are people, 
and people are puppets too! 

Fri, 10/26/2012 - 07:13 | 2920937 wattsnotsaid
wattsnotsaid's picture

Considering he's middle of the road mainstream Woodward's new book The Price of Politics is about as damning as it gets for President Obama. He's unable to work with others to get things done.  No wonder the book isn't getting attention of the MSM.  Book has come out too late to even be in the town library yet.  Too bad.

One review:

Bob Woodward knows a failed president when he sees one. The man who was instrumental in bringing down Richard Nixon has now covered eight presidents for the Washington Post while writing more than a dozen books about them.

Which is what makes the final verdict he renders on President Obama in his new book, "The Price of Politics," so damning. Woodward writes, "It is a fact that President Obama was handed a miserable, faltering economy and faced a recalcitrant Republican opposition. But presidents work their will -- or should work their will -- on the important matters of national business. ... Obama has not."

Over the course of almost 450 pages, Woodward depicts Obama as an arrogant, aloof and hyperpartisan president who manages to either alienate or disappoint everybody he needs to help govern Washington.

One of the first scenes Woodward recounts is a meeting at the White House where Obama invited House Republicans over to talk about the stimulus. After then-Minority Whip Eric Cantor distributed a five-point Republican stimulus plan that differed from Obama's tax plan, Obama told Cantor, "I can go it alone. ... Look at the polls. The polls are pretty good for me right now. Elections have consequences. And Eric, I won. So on that, I think I trump you."

Later, after the Democrats drafted a stimulus bill that contained zero Republican ideas, Obama Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel put Obama's position on bipartisanship a bit more succinctly, "We have the votes. F--k 'em."

Obama's tone changed, of course, after the "shellacking" the American people gave him during the 2010 elections. But even when he knew he needed Republican votes to govern, Obama could not help but stereotype and lecture the other party. He confidently told his staff he could roll newly minted House Speaker John Boehner because, "He's a golf-playing, cigarette-smoking, country-club Republican who makes deals. He is very familiar to me."

Boehner did try -- very hard, in fact -- to make a deal with Obama on the debt limit. But it was amateur hour at the White House at every turn. At one point in the negotiations, Obama insisted on dragging every congressional leader to the White House for daily meetings until the crisis was solved. The veteran hill staffers thought this was a clear sign that "the president simply didn't understand how Congress works and didn't know how to negotiate."

"Boehner," Woodward writes, "hated going down to the White House to listen to what amounted to presidential lectures."

And congressional Republicans weren't the only ones disappointed in Obama's leadership. After Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., became so disillusioned with Obama's handling of the crisis that they eventually cut their own deal with Boehner, Woodward writes that Obama had essentially been "voted off the island in his own house."

As a result of Obama's bumbling, Woodward concludes, "The mission of stabilizing and improving the economy is incomplete. First, the short-term federal fiscal problem has not been solved. Instead it has been pushed off to the future, leaving the United States facing what is now called the fiscal cliff. ... Second, the long-term problem of unsustainable entitlement spending on Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security, highlighted by Republican House Budget Chairman Paul Ryan and familiar to all informed politicians and economists including the president ... has been left largely unaddressed."

"Americans are now left with a still struggling economy in the midst of a presidential election," Woodward writes. "It is a world of the status quo, only worse."

"The status quo, only worse." What a perfect description of the Obama presidency. It even fits on a bumper sticker.

Conn Carroll (ccarroll@washingtonexaminer.com) is a senior editorial writer for The Washington Examiner. Follow him on Twitter at @conncarroll.

 

Fri, 10/26/2012 - 09:07 | 2921122 northerngirl
northerngirl's picture

I'm no fan of Romney, but 4 more years of Obama...  I really have a hard time understanding those that think that not voting, voting 3rd party/write in will do any good?  Is this just based on principal, or is there some deep desire to bring the end so the rebuilding can begin?  From an economic/financial stand point our county was destroyed long ago and what we are living through is the rebuilding process.  How else did we end up with a currency that is a, "Federal Reserve Note?"  Maybe 4 years of Romney will focus on the produces and not the looters?

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