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What Fiscal Cliff? Obama Planning Another "Tax Cut" Fiscal Stimulus

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Since it would appear that QEternity has ostensibly failed in its main goal of pushing the stock market higher (and mortgage rates lower), the White House seems to be scrambling. Obama administration officials have concluded that the economy, while improved (apparently), is still fragile enough to warrant another bout of stimulus. The same old kitchen sink is being thrown at the problem as they are now resorting to the same fiscal stimulus that has also failed time and time again (as we noted here). As WaPo strawmans reports the White House is discussing the idea of a tax cut that it believes will lift American's take-home pay and boost a still-struggling economy (citing people familiar with the administration's thinking).

 

Once again we expect 'economists' to come up with counter-factual forecasts.

 

We can't help but get the terrible feeling of deja vu here (paging Christine Romer). Electioneering? for sure; Will we hear "We have a plan"; of course; but in reality for this to make any sense (in the debt-deleveraging balance sheet recession that we find ourselves in), we must wipe from our minds for one moment the looming fiscal cliff (that our politicians seem stuck with irreconcilable differences), the debt-ceiling/deficit/AAA downgrade debate, and the utter failure of linear-Keynesian model forecasts for stimulus effects in the past.

 

Via Washington Post:

The White House is weighing the idea of a tax cut that it believes would lift Americans’ take-home pay and boost a still-struggling economy, according to people familiar with the administration’s thinking, as the presidential candidates continue battling over whose tax policies would do more for the country.

 

Obama administration officials have concluded that the economy, while improved, is still fragile enough that it may need another bout of stimulus. The tax cut could replace the payroll tax cut championed by President Obama in 2011 and 2012, which was designed as a buffer against economic shocks such as the financial crisis in Europe and high oil prices. It expires at year’s end.

 

...

 

The administration’s work on the proposal comes as each presidential candidate is under intense pressure to demonstrate he has the better tax plan.

 

...

 

Any new tax cut would require congressional approval after the election. Administration officials have said in the past that the payroll tax cut should be allowed to expire at the end of the year, and the White House has not said publicly whether it is considering an alternative.

 

A growing number of voices have been calling on the White House and Congress to extend the payroll tax cut, which has meant about $1,000 in extra take-home pay annually for the average family. These supporters include Harvard professor Lawrence H. Summers, formerly Obama’s top economic adviser, and Rep. Chris Van Hollen of Maryland, the top Democrat on the House Budget Committee.

 

“If we’re going to look at anything, we should be looking at a payroll tax cut or other measures that have a similar effect,” Van Hollen said in an interview.

 

The White House declined to confirm whether it is exploring a new policy, with an official saying late Friday only that “there’s no specific new proposal such as this one at this time.”

 

The payroll tax cut... is considered particularly effective by economists because it shows up in every paycheck. Economists say it may have boosted economic growth each year by about 1 percent, helping create hundreds of thousands of jobs.

 

...some lawmakers, particularly Democrats, don’t like the idea of using a tax that ordinarily goes to fund Social Security. Any lost revenue as a result of the payroll tax cut has been offset by additional taxpayer money. Still, powerful interest groups such as the AARP have criticized using the payroll tax cut for short-term stimulus.

 

The administration is looking to replicate the effect of the payroll tax cut without relying on Social Security revenue, sources said. The people familiar with the deliberations declined to be named because the discussions are ongoing.

 

One option is to have employers reduce how much in federal taxes is withheld from employees’ paychecks, up to a certain amount per year.

 

This was precisely the type of tax cut provided in the 2009 stimulus bill, which sought to jolt the economy out of recession through $831 billion in increased spending, aid to states and tax cuts.

 

...

 

The tax credit was limited to individuals with an adjusted gross income of $95,000 or less and couples with an adjusted gross income of $190,000 or less. Economists say that low- and moderate-income people have the greatest propensity to spend any additional income.

 

...

 

Obama is calling on lawmakers to immediately renew the Bush tax cuts for families earning less than $250,000 per year, while allowing the tax cuts for those making more to expire. Republicans refuse to decouple the tax cuts.

 

Read that again - and we dare you not to laugh! This is Keynesian-based Einsteinian madness at its very best...

 

One report that apparently has scared the administration into action is the following from the National Association Of Manufacturers - Fiscal Shock.

 

Fiscal Shock Conclusion:

The inaction and stalemate in Washington will continue to weigh heavily on consumer and business confidence as the year winds down. Even if the Administration and Congress resolve the uncertainty before the end of the year, economic growth already has sustained significant damage. The short-term fiscal contraction set for 2013 will trigger long-run durable losses to GDP, productivity and real income.

 

Even under the best-case scenario, it will take almost a decade for economic activity and employment to reach the levels they would have reached without a fiscal shock. While the spending cuts and tax increases reduce the federal deficit and debt, the substantial negative consequences of not addressing the end-of-year fiscal crisis before it happens will be devastating.

 

 

Fiscal Shock

 

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Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:00 | 2926221 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Any tax cut that is not accompanied by a reduction in the size of the government, is a fraud and nothing more.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:10 | 2926235 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

"I believe that to a large extent our current budgetary problems stem from the widespread adoption of an idea by Republicans in the 1970s called “starve the beast.” It says that the best, perhaps only, way of reducing government spending is by reducing taxes. While a plausible strategy at the time it was formulated, STB became a substitute for serious budget control efforts, reduced the political cost of deficits, encouraged fiscally irresponsible tax cutting and ultimately made both spending and deficits larger."

-Bruce Bartlett, Domestic Policy Advisor to Ronal Reagan

Politicians have been following that strategy ever since.   I believe it is known as having one's cake and eating it too, except the cake is your aunt Helga's fruitcake from 1980.

 

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:18 | 2926248 redpill
redpill's picture

The "administration's thinking" is an oxymoron.  There is no more thinking, there is only the nostril-burning stench of political desperation as the chance of them losing power increases.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:55 | 2926361 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

didn't find a cme product directly linked to tax rates

just hurricanes (well .. "temperature" exchange)

Code   Contract            Type Price Qty  Time
H61X2 PhiladelphiaTemp FUT 4580 200 15:42CT 
H61X2 PhiladelphiaTemp FUT 4670 100 12:48CT 
H61X2 PhiladelphiaTemp FUT 4600 050 10:19CT

thanks a lot, haarp

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 21:39 | 2926451 markmotive
markmotive's picture

Obama supporters epic fail! They hate themselves...

http://www.planbeconomics.com/2012/10/28/epic-fail-2/

 

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 07:33 | 2927198 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Hail Mary pass.....let's hope Doug Flutie is a Bam Bam supporter.

 

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 07:44 | 2927207 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

why does let them eat rand's submission not allow up/down arrows?  i get no little hand there but do elsewhere.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 21:08 | 2926383 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Same car, same ditch, same backseat driver...........

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 22:55 | 2926730 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

...or Ted Kennedy.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 07:48 | 2927214 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

She was just a secretary.....I"m going places.

 

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 02:27 | 2927037 Tommy Gunner
Tommy Gunner's picture

Ya same stench i have been smelling since Reagan took office and put us on this path to disaster - more commonly known as Voodoo Economics

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 06:34 | 2927157 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

Notice Poppy Bush coined that - but (back then) backed away immediately. (In todays Twitter-twatting world of everybody up everybody's ass for a reason, that would have been viral).....

But it is plain and simple. No matter who "started" it...both did bascially....so both "sides" blow...

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 08:22 | 2927292 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Why stop there (Reagan)? Everything was peachy under Carter, if you ignore the high inflation and overall malaise (Carter's own words), wasn't it? How about under Ford, with his Whip Inflation Now campaign? Or Nixon, who imposed wage and price controls. Or...well, you get the message. What the US needs is a replay of the Warren Harding administration, minus the scandals.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 07:41 | 2927203 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 08:22 | 2927294 thewhitelion
thewhitelion's picture

Actually I think it's your children's (or grandchildren's) cake.  Enjoy!

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:14 | 2926245 knukles
knukles's picture

1.)  That is absolutely correct, but then again, what would we expect from those folks?

2.)  The tax cut has fuck all to do with the economy.  It's to garner more votes before the election.

3.)  They done went and told us there's fuck all nothing wrong whazzamatterfazzzo its doing gangbusters economy so why would we need a tax cut.

Oh dear shades of more Hell on Earth from our Illustrious Leaders of the Great Socialist Paradise on the Potomac.

4.)  So whatthefuck, Obey is a Reaganomics guy, now?

(shaking, withdrawal like symptoms, afraid propaganda will end, reality taking over, screams of silence)

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:13 | 2926249 AustriAnnie
AustriAnnie's picture

Notice the clever wording about how they will take the tax cut from "somewhere else rather than from social security revenue" (AS IF social security revenues are actually allocated and held for such purpose rather than just another tax that goes into the same pot as every other).

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:23 | 2926274 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

how about make a 10% tax across the board and reduce gov by a mere 25% and problem solved. but please no ending the war on terror/drugs/us citizens. 

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:48 | 2926351 hawk nation
hawk nation's picture

Murdering babies in the womb is legal but legalizing all drug consumption is immoral. GO FIGURE

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:27 | 2926287 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

I could give two dumps...sorry, make that one dump on what, when, where, and how. Give me a tax break, give them a tax break, break it off in your arse. This thing is coming down not matter what. I will continue to exchange your currency for my money.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 21:21 | 2926411 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

the next stimulus will be disguised as " hurricane aid".  the redistribution of middle class money to obama's highest campaign contributors will be staggering.  

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 02:29 | 2927041 Tommy Gunner
Tommy Gunner's picture

ya and if romney wins his donors get the cash...  

so many stupid fucks in America - don't you get it? 

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 07:51 | 2927215 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

So.....how much coin have you got from Bam Bam lately?

 

Yeah....I didn't think so. If the current guy sucks it only makes sense to let the new guy give it a shot.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 21:27 | 2926424 Stock Tips Inve...
Stock Tips Investment's picture

Correct. That kind of crazy ideas, driven by Keynesians, are the ideas that have led to this crisis. Obviously that less tax is healthy for the economy. But this can not be done without a plan to reduce government spending to keep the balance in the accounts. The rest is magic ... and magic is trick.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 22:31 | 2926626 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

i cannot disagree with you on this. the point in my view of "normalization of rates" policy would be to upwardly slope the yield curve and promote lending activity of our still bankrupt "mega banks." while nakedly inflationary i do agree "it creates a tax hike all its own" through bracket creep, etc. the hope as i would see it is that Government's that have refused to "right size" their policies towards what their constituents can handle will at the very least be understood as "engaging in risky behavior" and be penalized accordingly. Those States that have kept themselves "lean and mean" (Texas comes to mind) will be rewarded. on the good side the market is obviously all in on "deflation" as they keep front running the Fed every time Ben opens his mouth about some new bailout scheme that has no chance of working. (Ala Japan of course.) And the USA does have the cheapest and most valuable fuel source in the world in the form of natural gas. this advantage should be leveraged to PAY DOWN the debt...not "leverage the debt so we can create more of it" as is currently done. I am open to suggestions for alternatives of course...

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:05 | 2926230 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

Its all a waste, cut tax, increase money printing, it doesn't matter. We are screwed.  It doesn't matter since destruction is assured.  At least it makes some people feel better.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:13 | 2926243 Haole
Haole's picture

I wish we could just get on with the "we are screwed" part of the plot because all the utterly pervertedly senseless foreplay is getting reeeeeeeeaally fucking tedious.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:13 | 2926251 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

I agree,  its a neverending shit show with third rate actors.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 00:11 | 2926892 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Starring Joe Biden as the Prince Regent. He makes Hugh Laurie look cunning.

 

http://sharetv.org/images/blackadder_uk/cast/large/prince_regent_season_...

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 06:40 | 2927161 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

...also starring Ida Lupino....Granville Van Dusen.....and Benjie the Fucked up Federal pooch in....

....the next episode....."Economy Cujo"

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:46 | 2926344 hawk nation
hawk nation's picture

They keep making it harder and harder for me to get out of bed and be a productive member of society

I keep thinking who cares its all going to collapse

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 21:22 | 2926412 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Just a friendly word of advice, give up being concerned about what others (like gov't and other things out of your/our/my immediate control) and focus on doing what is needed to defend and protect what is yours and those you care about.  In all likelihood the sun will rise each morning, regardless.  All that external stuff is noise.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 02:32 | 2927046 Tommy Gunner
Tommy Gunner's picture

the sun rose each morning in kosovo....

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 08:02 | 2927234 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

....and then the shooting started.

 

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 21:57 | 2926421 Haole
Haole's picture

DO NOT let them toy with your spirit and will to live a productive and satisfying life for yourself (and loved ones?) despite what the future might hold. 

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 22:11 | 2926519 hawk nation
hawk nation's picture

I'm prepared and would just like the game to begin

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 22:14 | 2926527 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

It has begun!  It's just not in full swing such that the MSM has started covering the events in our back yard.

I'd say the die will have been cast when a local newsroom has been taken over by "radicals" and a SWAT team has to be called in before viewers are told the truth on camera.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 01:52 | 2927004 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

"Keynesian chickens, ...come home to roost! "

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 08:03 | 2927237 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Bring me a cup of fat and the head of Paul Krugman.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 08:06 | 2927245 Zadok
Zadok's picture

The last naked dash to the finish began in 2008 when the Bernanke pulled 'flow' to precipitate the crisis thereby allowing unhindered weath theft.

Make no mistake, 'IT' is fully underway!

Proverb 27:12

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 02:33 | 2927048 Tommy Gunner
Tommy Gunner's picture

There is nothing you can do that can prepare you for what is coming my friend. 

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 02:32 | 2927045 Tommy Gunner
Tommy Gunner's picture

But if you don't go to work how will you earn cash to buy more gold?

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 00:37 | 2926935 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

I'm starting to chafe, too.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:11 | 2926241 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Economic Dream Team II bitchez...

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:13 | 2926242 docj
docj's picture

Sheesh, it's 9-days from the election and The Mormon is leading in the polls so all of a sudden Choomy thinks "tax cuts" are OK?

Nope, that's not desperate at all.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 00:16 | 2926901 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Every presidential election since 2000 has been "too close to call" despite the fact that the candidates have been consistently lackluster. I really don't buy any of it.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:12 | 2926244 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

go ahead you two dumb bitches. Fight for my vote. Make me promises. Lower my taxes. Come mow my lawn. Cook me dinner you two stooges.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:22 | 2926266 knukles
knukles's picture

OK Fonz, let's look at this in a critically clinical manner.
Obey and the Mitten come to your house to mow your lawn.  You have but one lawn mower.  Who be the supervisor and who will actually mow? 

Answers:  multiple choice

a)  Obey will mow
b)  Mittens will supervise
c)  They'll come to a bipartisan agreement
d)  It'll start a fistfight
e)  One will break a bottle over the others head
f)   Krugman will say it's the best way to get people back to work
g)  Chris Matthews will say its a racist trick question
h)  The Fonz would make a fortune selling tickets
i)   None, some or all of the above, but who the fuck cares
j)   Ron Paul 2012

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:27 | 2926292 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Well let's take it a step further. If they came to my door right now.....I would send Obey out to the empty stop and shop with my grocery list. I would tell Mittens to get moving cleaning the leaves out of my gutters and clearing my drain pipes for Sandy. I would be curious to see who comes up more empty handed. Obey on the food or Mittens scouring my neighborhood for some mexi's to get moving on the yardwork. My guess is they both sit there on my couch drinking beers watching the saints game while my neighbors tree is leaning on my roof and I am scrambling.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 00:05 | 2926881 knukles
knukles's picture

LOL Big Time

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 21:00 | 2926374 CrimsonAvenger
CrimsonAvenger's picture

trick question, right? They take $10 out of my pocket, borrow another $20 from the neighbor in my name, pay an illegal to do it, then take credit for the job they just created.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 23:06 | 2926747 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Close. 

You forgot the all-important step of FINANCING the transaction.  Somebody has to float a bond for the $20 borrowed dollars which is paid for by money printed by The Fed, handed to the banks who then buy the bond with it.  Of course, the coupon on the bond is in excess of the interest rate on the money that the banks borrowed from The Fed to buy the bond so the banks pocket the difference.  Plus various fees and services.  And then they use that bond as collateral on another transaction since it is, of course, backed by the "full faith and credit of the United States."

Now the real fun part..... in the end, the lawn never actually gets mowed.  The worker is simply counted as "employed" since he already received his pay for the job.  He then promptly walks away from the job since he's got only downside beyond this point.  The owner of the property gets ticked off and hires an attorney and things spiral downhill from there.

I couldn't quite figure out how the home owner gets foreclosed on by the same bank that floated the bond, but I'm sure it would happen somehow.  I'm just not sharp enough to figure it out right now.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 02:02 | 2927018 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

Where's the part about the cops showing up, shooting your labrapoodle and handling a section 8 voucher to the illegals baby mommy? Oh, and a citation for you having installed a storm door with out a permit.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 15:10 | 2927085 Just Ice
Just Ice's picture

"I couldn't quite figure out how the home owner gets foreclosed on by the same bank that floated the bond..."

Just get Linda Green's signature on the paper.

 

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 05:07 | 2927119 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

This lawn mower thread has gotta be the best humor I've ever seen on ZH.  You guys all deserve a prize for these comments.  How about a tax credit of $500,000 for each of you.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:14 | 2926253 Matt
Matt's picture

Since government activity counts towards GDP, couldn't they just expand the government to increase GDP? Just add 10 percent to the budgets of every department. As long as the GDP increase exceeds the growth in new debt, it counts as a success, right?

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:24 | 2926280 knukles
knukles's picture

Unfortunately, the gobumint employees would all say; "Rightie-O"
The BLS seasonal redacting perpetual adjustment factor would expand the economy 500 fold due to the 370,230% multiplier effect conjured out of thin air, Paul Krugman would wet his pants and nobody'd believe believe it or even care.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:16 | 2926257 This just in
This just in's picture

Please please please let's pop this national zit of a presidency before we go in for four more years...

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:20 | 2926263 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

Popping zits is a very precarious procedure, if the zit is not ready to be popped you might need to stick a sterilized needle into it or use a steaming hot cloth to bring it to the surface.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:22 | 2926270 This just in
This just in's picture

Economic collapse is one hell of a needle.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:25 | 2926283 knukles
knukles's picture

So are big muthafuckin' inner city riots

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:40 | 2926329 This just in
This just in's picture

I think you mean "Hope and Change rallies."

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:25 | 2926285 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

I hope someone has the needle and will use it

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:52 | 2926354 malikai
malikai's picture

I have a needle, but I am unfamiliar with the procedure.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 23:16 | 2926779 Barack Obama
Barack Obama's picture

Had to down vote you on that one.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 23:34 | 2926826 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Guess you did NOT approve of that message! :>D

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:24 | 2926275 GCT
GCT's picture

If they really wanted you and I to take home more money they could declare an income tax holiday for a year!    But then I get to thinking hell it would not be fair for those that do not pay income taxes in this fucked up world where the working take a big screwing everyday.

Seeing how the FeEd cannot go bankrupt because they can print should bring cheers of joy from the MMT crowd!

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:26 | 2926289 booboo
booboo's picture

Ahhh, note the catch phrase, "lift take home pay" sneaky, one would first have to be employed for that to happen. Fattening up the undecided for the 2nd term sacrifice 

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:29 | 2926300 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I agree with Bruce Krasting. Obey will boost the economy with the red money plan and send Mittens and his buddies scrambling with all their green in hiding. Will prob never happen but it would be a blast if Obummer had the balls to go for it.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:33 | 2926310 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

Obummer does not have balls, He has a microchip processor controlling all his actions.   And a thumb drive to keep the first lady happy.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:34 | 2926313 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

The reason you need a payroll tax cut is because these are people that are: 1) paying into the system and 2) actually going to work every day and doing something that provides a good or service.  

The workers start to get a little grumpy when they need to be somewhere they don't want to be for 6-12 hours a day and then forfeit a portion of their earnings so other people can sit on their ass and complain each day.

I don't have anything against providing well fare or food stamps but these people need to add something to the country except just being "consumers."  I am a worker and a consumer.  Roads are crappy, bridges are crumbling, schools are dirty but yet the govmint is just paying xx% of the population to just sit home on their asses.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 23:29 | 2926811 WakeUpPeeeeeople
WakeUpPeeeeeople's picture

The workers will get even grumpier when they work 6-12 hrs and then come home to dinner that's a plate of cat food.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 07:57 | 2927223 andrewp111
andrewp111's picture

Don't forget,  they will have to share dinner with the cats.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:35 | 2926316 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

Yep.. Definition of insanity.. Still, again..

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:39 | 2926319 The Count
The Count's picture

What about the PC cliff?

Anybody make the big mistake of upgrading to Windows 8? All my old programs were gone...oops, not quite correct...hidden in a folder called windows.old but most were now unusable. The tile GUI? Please, was that designed by 12th graders? Totally inflexible and counter productive. All in all I thanked the heavens that I only have ONE Winodws computer left besides several Macs. MS once again missed the big chance to finally break with Windows and come up with something much better. But with buffoons at the helm like Balmer that won't be happeing anytime soon.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:40 | 2926328 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Moved over to windows 8 yesterday. What a mistake.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 21:14 | 2926395 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

They should have stopped at NT 4.0.  Never be out front with a Windows OS.  Wait 6 months to a year.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 23:29 | 2926808 Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture

I'm sure its buggy but did come across some decent reviews (probably enough for me to take a looksee). 

Disclosure: Long Linux

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 06:39 | 2927160 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

install Ubuntu Linux. Great improvement!

http://www.ubuntu.com/

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:42 | 2926335 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

I celebrated by ordering anouther copy of Vista Ultimate.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 07:55 | 2927221 andrewp111
andrewp111's picture

The EmBalmer will finally embalm his own company. Win 8 is set to be a bigger flop than Vista.

Win 7 is Vista fixed. It will take them at least 2 iterations to fix something as bad as Win 8. Maybe Win 10 will be worth buying.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:39 | 2926325 hawk nation
hawk nation's picture

I call BULL SHIT on this being stimulus its a bribe to get people to vote for Obama

Obama is a miserable clusterfuck of a human being

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 21:47 | 2926470 Tombstone
Tombstone's picture

And that's on his best day.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:40 | 2926331 orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

If the herd ever gets organized, they just need to stop spending on anything but essentials - and that will be the end of this bull -shit- market.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 22:39 | 2926672 RiverRoad
RiverRoad's picture

When do the torches and pitchforks go on sale at Walmart?

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:55 | 2926362 Quaderratic Probing
Quaderratic Probing's picture

Reduce taxes....increase borrowing. Banks win..but then thats the point

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:56 | 2926369 perpetual dilution
perpetual dilution's picture

Has anyonre looked into the claim that QE3 has not even begun yet because the first settlement day for the MBS buys is not until 11/14? Is this true or false?

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 22:46 | 2926706 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

just take a look at the market for MBS. SOARED on the news. NOT a victory in my view however. Senator Schumer BUCKLED the Chairman...and the result is Obama loses. He needed inflation/risk. the irony is that natural gas prices which collapsed last year actually allowed the President to push for something overtly..."economical"...for lack of a better word. Indeed with the largest stake in General Motors being the taxpayer he could have had natural gas powered pick ups rolling off the line for sale for 9,999 a pop "with trade in." would have changed the energy equation IMMEDIATELY. Instead you have full on USSA and a real disaster looming in the Middle East. IMHO WRONG ANSWER on both Syria and interest rate policy...throw in an assassinated Ambassador with no response and you have more than enough to cause a sitting President to in fact lose his re-elect. To Mitt Romney of all people! HUGE upset if it in fact occurs. Trust me...you will see BIG TIME CHANGE if Romney wins. This guy is NOT status quo and he is not Texas. You get "economics 101" with New Englanders. Indeed even if Obama pulls it out...

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 20:57 | 2926371 luna_man
luna_man's picture

 

 

Just preparing for the day the CRIMINALS. really get desperate!...

 

Should be soon!

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 21:10 | 2926385 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

Greece arrests editor for 'Lagarde list' leak

Detained journalist defends publishing list of well-known Greeks who allegedly use Swiss banks to evade national taxes.

Greek police arrested the editor for publishing names of wealthy Greeks with money in Swiss accounts [Reuters] Greek police arrested the editor of a weekly magazine for publishing a list of more than 2,000 names of wealthy Greeks who have placed money in Swiss bank accounts, police said.

The so-called "Lagarde List", which led to the arrest of editor Costas Vaxevanis on Sunday, was given to Greece by French authorities in 2010 with names to be probed for possible tax evasion - has been a topic of heated speculation in the Greek media.

It is named after International Monetary Fund chief Christine Lagarde, who was French finance minister when the list was handed over. The "Hot Doc" magazine published the list of 2,059 names, including some well-known business and political figures, on Saturday.The magazine said it had been sent the list anonymously.

Authorities did not confirm if the list was authentic. A prosecutor ordered the arrest of Vaxevanis on Saturday for violating laws on releasing private data and he was arrested Sunday, police said. He was released pending trial after appearing before a prosecutor on Sunday. "He published a list of names without special permission and violated the law on personal data," a police official said. "There is no proof that the persons or companies included in that list have violated the law. There is no evidence that they violated the law on tax evasion or money laundering," the official added.

'Starving' Greece

The list has inspired heated discussion in near-bankrupt Greece, where public anger at politicians and the wealthy elite grows as austerity measures take a toll on the poorer sections of society. In a video sent to the Reuters news service by his magazine, Vaxevanis appeared on camera to defend his decision to publish the list. "I did nothing other than what a journalist is obliged to do. I revealed the truth that they were hiding," he said in the video.

"If anyone is accountable before the law then it is those ministers who hid the list, lost it and said it didn't exist. I only did my job. I am a journalist and I did my job." He said he had not committed any wrongdoing and accused authorities of trying to muzzle the press.

"The important thing is that a group of people - when Greece is starving - make a profit and try to create the Greece they want," he said. "Tomorrow in parliament they will vote to cut 100-200 euros [ in pay for the Greek civil servant, for the Greek worker while at the same time most of the 2,000 people on the list appear to be evading tax by secretly sending money to Switzerland." 

Source: Al Jazeera And Agencies 28 Oct 2012 20:49

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2012/10/20121028153828938172.html

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 00:13 | 2926895 knukles
knukles's picture

Whoda thunk years ago that Western Nations'd be imprisoning journalists for reporting Inconvenient Information and we'd be hearing about it via Al-Jazeera and RT?

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 04:51 | 2927113 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

Man I hear that dude.  The ex KGB is more reliable than the MSM.  What a hoot!!!

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 21:11 | 2926388 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

The'll NEVER cut spending - on either the military or social programs.

ANY tax cut, for ANYONE, is GREAT!

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 21:26 | 2926423 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

Frank M. Davis, Jr. don't believe in tax cuts.......

Obama's Bitter Muse (and ???) : Frank M. Davis

I was a weaver of jagged words
A warbler of garbled tunes
A singer of savage songs
I was bitter
Yes
Bitter and sorely sad
For when I wrote
I dipped my pen
In the crazy heart
Of mad America

—Frank Marshall Davis

I hear he was quite the photographer too.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 21:15 | 2926397 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Hey Obama administration if you are listening. You haven't tried giving everyone with a social security number $50,000 in cash. Don't you think it is about time to give that a whirl?

That is only $15,000,000,000,000 (hint, hint). That's less than you gave the banks dude. You can do it if you try. Hope and change remember.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 23:39 | 2926760 Barack Obama
Barack Obama's picture

Thank you for your support. In fact each and every citizen, documented or not, was awarded $50,000 in cash. This money is being held for you at JPMorgan, Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, or Citigroup. Your money is being managed and invested for you and you will be payed back many times over with a revitalized economy, more jobs, higher salaries and national health care.

Forward !

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 07:47 | 2927213 andrewp111
andrewp111's picture

Why don't we plunder the massive gold reserves within the mountains of Afghanistan, monetize it, and mail every American his share of gold coins?

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 21:27 | 2926425 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

Classical politics, and classical desperation when politics Finally fail, driven all the way by the pathologically Self-Absorbed.

When Finally the captain AND the crew are drunk...

well, enjoy the hurricane.

 

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 21:27 | 2926426 Being Free
Being Free's picture

Frankenstimulus!

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 21:28 | 2926428 FleaMarketPete
FleaMarketPete's picture

How can you cut taxes on people that don't pay taxes?

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 23:07 | 2926750 Barack Obama
Barack Obama's picture

These fine, upstanding citizens pay taxes, they pay negative taxes. They receive SNAP assistance, free medical care, and rent and utility subsidies. This is known as a negative tax rate.

Forward !

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 04:47 | 2927111 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

Yea.  Cut welfare.  Let's hasten the coming revolution

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 21:35 | 2926441 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

We are in a voracious deflationary depression. Only bankers are an exception getting richer via the Fed free money.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 21:47 | 2926471 NeedleDickTheBu...
NeedleDickTheBugFucker's picture

I prefer my daily stimulus plan in the form of Metamucil which is guaranteed to work every morning.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 22:00 | 2926495 FleaMarketPete
FleaMarketPete's picture

Obama and his socialists cancer are the worst thing to ever happen to this country.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 22:04 | 2926505 dolph9
dolph9's picture

You can pretend all you want that this has to do with Obama or liberals or Jews or blacks or Arabs or whoever.  Or, from the other side, you can pretend all you want that this has to do with the rich or corporations or rednecks or the military or whoever.

The truth is this:  Americans believe there is a rich, creamy nugget of oil at the center of the Earth that will power our cars, trucks, planes, and lifestyles forever.  We just have to go out and find it, no matter who we have to trample over.  And once we find it, it will last forever, and every generation after us will do better than we did.  Our kids will live to 150 and be multimillionaires.   Their kids will live to 200 and be billionaries.  And then their kids will live to be 300 and be trillionaires.

We are so confident in this that we decided to tie our entire debt money system to it.

This is the system we all grow up with, are all socialized into.  The surface differences are there but are somewhat of a distraction.

And if you point any of this out, you are ostracized...you are negative, cynical, pessimistic, paranoid.  Surely there must be something wrong in your head.

And we internalize this and then drop out and nobody hears from us again.  

And America just keeps on circling the drain, awaiting those barrels of black gold that will surely overturn all laws of nature.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 22:06 | 2926509 Heyoka Bianco
Heyoka Bianco's picture

"Economists say that low- and moderate-income people have the greatest propensity to spend any additional income."

Which is why there's a huge personal debt problem, and those debts are where most that money would go right now, except for those already over their own "fiscal cliff", but I don't think people buying dozens of cans of Beefaroni to fed their families is going to give us the GDP bump they expect.

If I can see this, why can't these dipshit "economists", what with their brilliant and expertly-trained minds?

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 22:11 | 2926521 FleaMarketPete
FleaMarketPete's picture

Good question.  My only thought is that Bernanke is willing to gamble your (and everyone else’s) life to justify his life's work.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 06:46 | 2927163 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

My only thought is that Bernanke is gamboling your (and everyone else’s) life to justify his life's work.

There, fixed it for ya.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 04:44 | 2927109 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

You,re right.  It's just a campaign ploy because Obama likes the illusion of being the puppet king.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 00:32 | 2926715 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

The bailouts of the banks and insurers and corporations - a reward for gambling and theft - were also a future tax increase on every current and future citizen of U.S.S.A. (if, by some miracle, it is ever paid).

If it's good enough for the crooked banks and corporations it's good enough for me.

Cut my taxes and increase my entitlements and to Hell with the debt, right?

If the FED can print for them they can print for me.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 22:51 | 2926720 Barack Obama
Barack Obama's picture

Forward !

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 07:43 | 2927206 andrewp111
andrewp111's picture

Forward like zombies, and march over the cliff with Dear Leader, leading from behind.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 22:59 | 2926738 flaunt
flaunt's picture

Hey I'm all for a tax cut and I don't care who gives it to me.  It isn't my debt and I could give a crap what happens to those dumb enough to hold it.  More power to Obama and Bernanke... At least I know what to expect.

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 23:04 | 2926742 Barack Obama
Barack Obama's picture

Thank you for your vote !

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 23:09 | 2926752 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Government declaration: "We will continue to hand public money to the banksters until the economy improves."

 

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 23:29 | 2926810 zebra
zebra's picture

i can keep more in my pocket if you can make the gas 1 buck less per gallon.

the 'extra bucks' that any tax cut offer will be quickly erased by the inflation and we actually end up with even less.

 

Sun, 10/28/2012 - 23:41 | 2926838 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

Since it would appear that QEternity has ostensibly failed in its main goal of pushing the stock market higher ...

You're jumping from A to C, missing B.

A) Loot (more) wealth from the people by printing (more) currency and giving it to Wall Street. 

("Asset buying" is just a cover story.  "Assets" are worth a fraction of what Fed pays for them, and continue losing value on Fed's balance sheet, not that it matters, Fed is never audited.)

B) Wall Street keeps partying high on a steady flow of wealth from the rest of America. Wall Street gets richer while the rest of America gets poorer.

C) Some of that looted wealth is put into the stock market bidding up stock prices.   Some goes to huge bonuses.   Who knows where the rest of it goes.

Bennie's job isn't keeping stocks inflated.   His job is loot the nation dry and give it all to Wall Street bankers. 

Those bankers are the one's keeping stocks inflated.  With wealth looted from the American people.

The looting will go on regardless of any tax cuts.  If they don't steal it from you via taxes, they steal it via borrowing and resulting currency debasement.

There's two centers of wealth in America now.  Wall Street and Washington DC.  Wall Street people and federal government people.

The rest of America is being looted dry to keep these two centers of wealth partying high.

Neither presidential candidate will do anything to stop it.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 00:23 | 2926912 Walt D.
Walt D.'s picture

Obama is a stubborn bugger. He is so anxious to tax the rich that he is going down in flames. He should have made the Bush Tax cuts permanent a long time ago. However, he realized that by doing nothing he could get his tax hike without actually having to take any action. He could then make a few cosmetic changes by exempting people below a certain income. Now that he is faced with the specter of defeat he is desperately trying to throw out a bone. However, this is probably too little too late. Even if he is re-elected, he is buggered by his own economic policies before he starts his second term.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 08:46 | 2927367 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

Yeah, but he (or Romney) isn't going to tax the "rich"........so they'll tax the proles more, instead, and cut their benefits.

You right wing guys should be estatic about this!

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 08:48 | 2927372 djsmps
djsmps's picture

Obama will retain the Obama-Bush tax cuts as part of the "Grand Compromise" that extends the paytoll tax cut for four more years.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 02:54 | 2927066 orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

There won't be any tax cuts.  Big government is the solution.

 

Love Barry.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 04:08 | 2927101 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

Will they still be called the Bush Tax Cuts, or will Obama take ownership this time?

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 04:38 | 2927106 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

Better yet, he follows Ron Paul and abolishes the IRS

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 06:19 | 2927153 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

5% growth? LOL! Yeah sure!

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 08:44 | 2927359 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

Any new tax cut would require congressional approval after the election.

Which is why it won't happen.

Your taxes will be raised, no matter WHO is in office, unless you make more than $500K/year. 

This is why I will not vote; the only "choice" in this election is "fail".

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