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Americans Aged 18-29 Have A More Favorable Response To Socialism Than To Capitalism

Tyler Durden's picture


In the prior post, we showed a presentation that looked at America from the perspective of a corporation and how it would be completely unsustainable. Luckily, there is little probability that America will ever have anything to do with S-Corp status, and far more likely end up as an agrarian Kolhoz. The reason: based on a Pew survey of America's youth, or those aged 18-29, more have a positive view response toward Socialism than they do toward Capitalism. We will leave it at that.

Socialism: 49% Positive / 43% Negative:


And Capitalism: 46% Positive / 47% Negative:


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Thu, 11/01/2012 - 21:37 | 2939635 Nihilarian
Nihilarian's picture

As Lenin said... I am the Walrus.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 21:49 | 2939675 Zer0head
Zer0head's picture

dripping from a dead dog's eye

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 21:53 | 2939681 flacon
flacon's picture

The greatest lie the devil ever told was convincing humanity that we live in a free market capitalist world.


Psychologists discuss cognative dissonance - and why many people are in a state of denial (you can substitute "capitalism" for "9/11" in this video - still the same message):


Thu, 11/01/2012 - 22:01 | 2939706 ACP
ACP's picture

As a Capitalist, all I could think of after reading this article was how to market towards sOCIALIST 18-29 year olds.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 22:07 | 2939731 knukles
knukles's picture

Putchur Eddie Bernays hat on, my man.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 22:17 | 2939758 ACP
ACP's picture

Barney Frank beer: "Suck it down!"

Nancy Pelosi handbags: "Room for all your bribes!"

The list goes on and on. The possibilities are ENDLESS!

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 22:29 | 2939793 ZeroAvatar
ZeroAvatar's picture

John Boehner's tissues:  "Big Crocodiles Don't Cry".

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 22:40 | 2939841 bania
bania's picture

To be a socialist in your twenties is understandable. To be a socialist in your forties is inexcusable.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 22:55 | 2939878 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

how many people in their 40s do real work? most are either burned out, retired early, or in "management" playing politics.


what young wants is what the top 0.1% elites have...socialism for me, capitalism for you system.



Thu, 11/01/2012 - 23:55 | 2940041 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Yep they come out of high school writing about how the Federal Reserve fixes prices at the supermarket so their poor sacred ass doesn’t get ripped off.  Reading sophomore papers about economics is a dismal adventure into the abyss of hopelessness for the future.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 01:19 | 2940114 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

"Are we not Men?!"

"We are DEVO!!!"

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 01:39 | 2940141 redpill
redpill's picture

Anyone that is shit broke loves the idea

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 01:41 | 2940145 A L I E N
A L I E N's picture

Young and dumb!

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 03:05 | 2940247 dubbleoj
dubbleoj's picture

But if there was hope, it lay in the proles. You had to cling

on to that. When you put it in words it sounded reasonable:

it was when you looked at the human beings passing you on

the pavement that it became an act of faith.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 06:55 | 2940390 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture




Wisconsin leads the way out.


Bitch all you want and trash the place.


It's over......go home now.


Sat, 11/03/2012 - 05:41 | 2943806 boogerbently
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"Americans Aged 18-29 Have A More Favorable Response To Socialism Than To Capitalism"

That's because they grew up with it.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 01:43 | 2940148 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

Reading ZH comments about economics is a dismal adventure into the abyss of hopelessness for the future.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 07:06 | 2940397 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



It gives me optimism actually.


10.000 people sceaming bullshit to 5 guys holding a mic has to even give them pause.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 07:37 | 2940435 kralizec
kralizec's picture

What gives me hope is this stupid thing came out of Pew, it is likely full of shit...if not, screw it, we're back to doomed...

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 05:43 | 2943807 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture mean the 10's of millions of $$$ of destruction caused by Sandy WON'T be good for the economy????

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 07:39 | 2940437 Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

Sandy Storm different "where's the government, the government's job is to help everyone who can't help themselves".

First, this statement/belief is bad enough.  

Second, the "government" told them to evacuate...they didn't.  

Common sense told them to store food....they didn't.  

If I have to hear one more person complain about the potential of dying from the cold I'm going to puke...get a coat and a blanket you morons.

Complaining about police!!  This is the best one.  Crying because of looters and asking where the police are...Houston was without power for 10 days.  Millions of looting problem at all.  zero.  Of course, I remember seeing the signs on CNN "looters will be shot"....people, accepting responsibility for their own food, power and security.   Imagine that.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 08:34 | 2940539 GeezerGeek
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Moral dilemma: if one kills a looter in one's house, and one is really hungry...

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:12 | 2941987 cameldojo
cameldojo's picture

No you don't have to feel bad about eating a looter.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 06:10 | 2943813 dog breath
dog breath's picture

Bath salts is a hell of a drug.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 11:38 | 2941319 Matt
Matt's picture

But hasn't The Government taken away their guns, so they must rely on the police?

Laws in Texas about shooting trespassers seem to be quite different than in the north east.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 08:51 | 2940642 northerngirl
northerngirl's picture

The sad part is those of us in our 40's created these socialists (18-29).  We have no one to blame but ourselves.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 04:02 | 2940265 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

AldousHuxley - Yes, correct, the entire society is a PONZI.

Join it, milk it, or leave it; those are your choices kids.


Fri, 11/02/2012 - 17:15 | 2942817 Tegrat
Tegrat's picture

Well im closer to 50 than 40. in 8 months I made 153 *unique* changes to the software i am working on (bugs, enhancements, support changes. That's researched, written, tested and deployed. No rollbacks needed. about 1 delivered change per day. Mostly 8-10 days with an occastional 20hr push...



Thu, 11/01/2012 - 22:57 | 2939881 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

Any man under the age of 30 who is not a liberal has no heart.  Any man over the age of 30 who is not a conservative, has no brains.

Winston Churchill

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 23:03 | 2939900 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

any man who has less than $500,000/year in income has no voice nor vote.


--your district's politician

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 23:20 | 2939947 ACP
ACP's picture

any man on the public dole gets no less than two votes.

--your district's politician

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 00:38 | 2940062 Richard Chesler
Richard Chesler's picture

any man in a position of power proclaiming hope and change is a puppet of Goldman Sachs.

--an accurate observer.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 05:56 | 2940342 Karl von Bahnhof
Karl von Bahnhof's picture

We don't need your stinkin komutalism! We have our shining kapimunism! 

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 07:49 | 2940413 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture




Winston Churchill - send the bust of that asshole back to England.



President Bam Bam

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 23:35 | 2939950 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

'tis democracy in action: $1 = 1 vote

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 00:02 | 2940018 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

The only way Hurricane Sandy was Human Induced Climate Change, was by the Geo Engineering operations being done by humans working for the US Government.

The Climate Changers and Progressers can go pound Sandy, We have Global Cooling now due to the extended Solar Minimum.

NASA June 2012 Solar Cycle 24 Prediction

Hurricane Sandy Geoengineering Update 10-27 and Law Suit

HAARP Engineering 'FRANKENSTORM' Hurricane Sandy - CAUGHT on SATELLITE and RADAR!!!

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 00:47 | 2940074 dugorama
dugorama's picture

so cheap?  there will be less than 100 mm votes cast and over $1bln spent.  That's more like $10/vote just on the political advertising.  


why say no more?  the young 'uns look at their prospects and see what unfettered unregulated captialism has wrrought and well, why shouldn't they imagine something else would be better?

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 01:13 | 2940107 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

"the young 'uns look at their prospects and see what unfettered unregulated captialism has wrrought "



We aren't were we are because of unfettered unregulated capitalism.  Quite the contrary.  We are where we are because of idiots like you.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 02:05 | 2940182 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Tired of Bronco Bamma and Mitt Romney

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 07:51 | 2940447 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture




Kid needs a shot of Morning Joe.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 02:29 | 2940213 JR
JR's picture

Exactly! Crony capitalism is fascism, a.k.a. socialism. As John T. Flynn states, “Fascism is Fabian socialism plus the inevitable dictator.”

Why is it that the richest men in the world have been financing both Communist revolution and Socialist legislation? Why is it that wealthy socialists co-opted tax-exempt foundations that now dominate American education? How did the socialist meme gain control over most of the world’s press, radio and TV? How is it that oligarchs with crony connections to the center of power have developed powerful control centers in both the Democrat and Republican parties, taken over the U.S. State Department, manipulated themselves into control of the White House? Who are the members of the power group that is seizing the human and natural resources of the entire world?

And why would they support what appears to be the pathway to their own destruction?

The answers to all these questions appear in Tragedy and Hope written by Bill Clinton’s mentor at Georgetown University, Dr. Carroll Quigley. They are the super-rich whose goal is to convert all governments to world socialism which they, the international bankers and business cartels, will control.

Only low information voters, products of today’s government-controlled education,  would believe that the operators of the Federal Reserve cartel system - the Lloyd Blankfeins, Jamie Dimons, Evelyn de Rothschilds, George Soroses, Herman von Rompuys and Benjamin Bernankes etc. - are capitalists. 

The self-regulating nature of the marketplace that made America great, the invisible hand, has been paralyzed by the mail fist of the international bankers and their captured DC enablers.

Isn’t it time to stop referring to dictatorship as capitalism and free enterprise?

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 10:17 | 2940961 ATM
ATM's picture

Amen Brother!

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 10:26 | 2941011 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

If fascism and socialism are the same thing in your world, how do you distinguish between communism and capitalism?

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 11:38 | 2941318 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

It's simple foxtard, just look for the black dude...he's the "communist"

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 15:03 | 2942242 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Really?  I thought the Foxtards would just call him "nigger."

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 02:09 | 2940189 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Free Book for you;

Feudalism aka American Capitalism
by David F.

Introduction and Overview

Feudalism: control by an entrenched minority esp. for its own benefit : social, political, or economic oligarchy.

You are reading this online, so I won't waste your time.

The aim of the book is to provide enough shocking facts about the manipulative practices of America's power elite, that readers will be motivated (i.e., made angry enough) to take part in efforts to bring the richest 1% under control, ...before they impoverish the planet and destroy the biosphere.
The book presents overwhelming evidence that masquerading behind a democratic facade, an economic elite comprising less than 1% of the population is quietly and cunningly ruling America. Their immense wealth and power enable them to exercise so much control over the governmental process, that they effectively operate the country as a Feudal oligarchy. The book will leave little doubt that Government has been serving as a tool to subsidize and legitimize their exploitation of national and international resources, while legislative tax changes have left the nation with a Feudal wealth distribution system.

Presenting the evidence to substantiate this argument is not the main reason the book was written. Documenting the methods used by the elite to manipulate, control and exploit those with less money or power is the real purpose. At least 80% of the book is devoted to documenting their very effective methodology.

While it is evident that most people are somewhat aware that government appears to cater to corporations and influential lobby groups, the average taxpayer is practically oblivious to the extent to which the wealthiest 1% directly and purposely control and manipulate the lives and destinies of everyone else on the planet.

For those who have been brought up on a steady diet of the American Dream, but notice that today's reality and the American Dream seem to be growing further and further apart, it may be worth keeping in mind that if a frog is placed in a pan full of cold water, and the heat is turned up gradually enough, the frog will fail to sense the danger, and instead of jumping to safety, it could quite unknowingly allow itself to be cooked. In a similar fashion, the media continues to be used to desensitize and/or misinform the general public into repeatedly accepting domestic and foreign policies that are very often diametrically opposed to the best interest of the majority.

While the average American does have "a vague idea" that corporations (as well as the economic elite) use plenty of techniques for avoiding taxation; how many know that the proportion of Federal Income tax derived from Corporate income tax declined steadily from 32% in 1952; to 23% in 1960; to 17% in 1970; to a low of 9% in 1985? Without vital knowledge such as this, the public will remain in the dark as to what is really causing the decline in most Americans' standard of living. .

Although the growing deficit and the near trillion dollar banking industry losses will inevitably lead to continuing cuts in the standard of living for present and future generations, most Americans feel powerless to alter their deteriorating economic conditions, and simply take consolation in the belief that everyone else is also feeling the pinch.

Nothing could be further from the truth ! 

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 02:21 | 2940204 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Continued a little, for the lazies who refuse to click on the link;

Statistics taken from Forbes magazine's annual July survey of America's billionaires expose the true reality. In 1982 there were 13 billionaires, in 1983...15; in 1984...12; in 1985...13; in 1986...26; in 1987...49

In other words, the number of American billionaires had for many years hovered around 13, then the Reagan administration drastically altered the wealth distribution patterns by introducing tax changes favoring the super rich. In 1986 the number of billionaires DOUBLED, and by 1987 the number of billionaires had QUADRUPLED!! By 1988 there were 68 individuals or families that each had net wealth in excess of $1,000,000,000. By 1989, the number had risen precipitously to 82. And by 1990, the Forbes survey reported the staggering total of 99!!

This explosion of wealth taking place at the top has occurred and will continue to occur while waves of beggars flood onto the streets, and thousands of farmers lose their farms. It is neither fate nor coincidence that these events are occurring simultaneously. Tremendous profits continue to flow into the bank accounts of the super rich even during supposedly poor economic periods.

Unless facts such as these become "common knowledge", economic Feudalism will continue to be an integral aspect of the status quo.

Why isn't the general public aware of these facts?
Simply because the richest 1% own virtually all of the media, and have little difficulty controlling the content and coloration of television and newspaper information reaching the public. The superficial and often distorted picture of reality offered by newspapers and television's 30 second sound bites has traditionally contributed little to the exposure of America's hidden reality. In no less a fashion, the major publishing houses have, like a circle of protective elephants, provided a wall of defense around the existing status quo and the elite who profit from it. In short, Americans are being deceived and seduced into clinging to unrealistic concepts served up through the mass media by the very people who are exploiting the nation.

Facts that would have exposed the true nature of present day America rarely get presented through newspapers or television. Instead, they surface in magazines such as the Economist, Forbes, Fortune, Insight, and The Wall Street Journal which are read almost exclusively by the economic elite and their sympathizers. Moreover, the specialized economic jargon and ever changing "buzzwords" used throughout these publications poses yet another barrier preventing the published facts from becoming widely appreciated.

Consequently, this book has been written to present the reader with a comprehensive but seemingly radical perspective of America's hidden reality, based on and supported by facts extracted almost exclusively from the conservative, pro-establishment publications just mentioned. This was done purposely to avoid arguments regarding the truth, accuracy or bias of facts used throughout the book. Additionally, the author attempted wherever possible to present both the perspectives and the supporting facts in plain uncomplicated English so as to be accessible to a broader spectrum of the general public.

The book could easily have been entitled "The Hoax of Democracy and Equality in Western Society", because the world's economic elite have taken control not only in America, but in virtually all the capitalist democracies, England, Canada, Scotland, Ireland, West Germany, Israel, South Africa, India, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, etc., as well as all the other countries ruled by economically elite minorities.

However, because America chooses to be the flagship for democratic capitalism, so she automatically deserves to be the focus of criticism as well. Moreover, it has been the American elite who have pioneered many of the social and constitutional controls that the economic elite of other countries have imitated. Consequently, incidents were chosen from American society to provide references and examples, although each of the other countries could have served the purpose as well.

It is therefore the author's hope that the book will serve as a catalyst to arouse true democratic power not only in America, but throughout the so-called Western democracies, simply by outlining many of the methods which the elite purposely use to manipulate society in order to maintain their wealth and power (i.e., a Feudal society).

If and when Western citizens come to know even some of the facts contained in this book, the outcry could be deafening. The shift of power from the wealthy elite to the majority could come just as surprisingly and as quickly as the shift of power away from the Communist elite occurred in Russia.

The demand for true democracy, and a more equitable distribution of wealth could dramatically alter humanity's destiny. A "New World Order" could really take place.

As Victor Hugo once put it, "No army can withstand the strength of an idea whose time has come", and the time has come.

 Important additional note!
The author would like to remind the reader that although most of the incidents referred to in the book occurred in the late 80s and early 90s (because that's when the book was originally written), it would be no problem at all to choose a comparable set of incidents taken from today's current events. In short, we are always being manipulated and exploited with basically the same methodology, so providing incidents (i.e., examples of a particular exploitation method), at any point in time, to support the basic arguments in the book would be relatively easy. It would simply entail a repeat of the time and effort taken to collect the currently provided set of supporting bibliographic references.

I have little doubt that readers will be able to supply their own current references, ...and all too easily.
This type of expose of the elite's methodology needs to be written only once.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 01:41 | 2940147 Sam Clemons
Sam Clemons's picture

Most people under 30 have never seen real socialism or real capitalism.  Most of the "developed" world has used corporatism/fascism with minimal (in relation to the amount of favors showered on undeserving corporations) social benefits the last 30 years.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 23:01 | 2939890 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

If Americans understood what Socialism actually is, they'd be even more for it.

Technology itself is forcing the world to move to a socialist model (i.e. the internet) and fake free market capitalists are shitting their pants.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 23:04 | 2939901 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

I'm going to presume you're in the group of people whose memories are too short to include the Soviet Union

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 23:18 | 2939942 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

The soviet union functioned EXACTLY as American corporations do: a group of unelected leaders decided what the workers produced, how they produced it and what was done with the profits. If you think the workers had any say in this overall process you're out to lunch. Saying the soviet union was socialist is like saying the USA is free market capitalist.

Socialism refers to a worker owned / operated production. State socialism is a dervivative of socialism but in pracitce has never existed. In the 40's socialsim as an idea became very popular and various states used it in their propaganda but none were actually socialist. 


Fri, 11/02/2012 - 00:49 | 2940077 e-man
e-man's picture

Socialism is one of the greatest scourges ever thrust upon humanity.  Whether it is "true" socialism or not is irrelevant.  It is at best an illusion of fairness and equality that delivers misery and hardship for most, entrenching the upper and lower classes at the cost of the middle class.

It is astounding to think people that have only ever known a capitalist society believe socialism is a viable alternative.  They have not been shown the whole picture, only the free stuff.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 01:16 | 2940110 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

When everyone is dirt poor, no one is dirt poor.  Thats all socialism is.  A smaller elite class than any capitalist society could ever conjur up.  Do you think Kim Jong whatever the fuck his name is now lives like a peasant? 

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 02:07 | 2940186 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

The workers of North Korea do not control the means of production, also worth pointing out - NK is a fascist country.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 02:14 | 2940198 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

All governemt is comprised of oligarchy. As such there is no difference between the oppresive regimes of Fascism, Demockracy and Socialism.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 02:22 | 2940206 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Except socialism isn't a form of government.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 02:30 | 2940215 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Never said it was. It is merely government ownership and operation of the means of production. Government being a requirement. Government being an oligarchy. Government needing to oppress.


Fri, 11/02/2012 - 02:34 | 2940221 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

"It is merely government ownership and operation of the means of production"


Fri, 11/02/2012 - 02:48 | 2940231 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

VDV Russian Airborne Song with ENGLISH SUBTITLES

Another one for you James.... make sure the tissues are handy... and close the door ;)

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 03:02 | 2940244 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Here's a song for you too:

America fuck yeah! NDAA, 16T in debt, manufacturing exported to fascist China and a presidential candidate with Golden pipes! Take that fascist USSR!

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 02:53 | 2940236 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Did you click your heals as said that? The definition of socialism is as I said. New definitions have arisen to account for the Social Contract, which nobody has ever signed. I am not going to enter a semantec distraction with you.

Regardless, If you wish to engage in Socialism, I support your desire to do so, with your own capital, so long as I am, in no way required to pay for its failure at gunpoint.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 03:11 | 2940248 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

"The definition of socialism is as I said."

NO... it isn't.

"If you wish to engage in Socialism, I support your desire to do so, with your own capital"

I engage in "socialism" (at least how you seem to understand socialism i.e. corporate fascism) on a daily basis with my own capital and do very well at it - thank you Federal Reserve. This particular system isn't my cup of tea but it is what is and I can't change it so I do well in it.

I'm just pointing out what socialism actually is as a lot of Americans are too propagandized / brain dead / ignorant to have any understanding of it.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 08:10 | 2940484 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Everyone else throughout history is ignorant except you, right???

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 08:22 | 2940503 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

"Regardless, If you wish to engage in Socialism, I support your desire to do so, with your own capital, so long as I am, in no way required to pay for its failure at gunpoint."


Why is it then, that the engines of Capitalism can't abide by the same principle / policy... oh, I know, because the sham of capitalism is the concealed transfer of wealth which is camoflauged as the great theory of infinite expansion.... in other fucking words, as long as you can dick someone somewhere, capitalism can work, but once you've dicked everyone everywhere, you no longer can fool everyone. 


That is precisely why we're entering the neofeudal state by the way... the financial oligarchs having dicked everyone everywhere, are now looting and pillaging before they convert the system to feudalism in it's bare form... indentured slave, debt that goes for generationsinto the future, and neverending servitude.   But keep complaining online, it's having absolutely no effect on the developing circumstances, just as the oligarchs would wish.


There are alternatives to this nightmare, but you lot that think somehow you have more knowledge than the assholes actually running the world will never go beyond being puppets aiding and abetting the looters as they take everyoneswealth.  Yes indeed, defend the capitalist system all you want... the semantic distinctions of what and who is destroying the current world are laughable.  Social welfare for the worlds citizens is not destroying the world, it is the accumulation of wealth and the infinite influence on the political system, aided by a Republic model of unequal representation, that is killing the worlds citizens.  Bravo. 


I really don't understand how anyone here who purports to be for capitalism can complain. A bunch of individuals made a lot of money, and they're directing those in political circles to create policies favorable to them. The same group that defends capitalism will defend the Republic model... and what is the itch you can't scratch?  The same powerful individuals also determine policy by excluding the masses from having a voice. The fucking events of the globe are nothing more than a Republic on a global scale. And here you are, complaining that your opinion was not solicited. Where in the republic model did it ever say your wish is my command?  It says, a small group of  people will determine how the rest will live. And for the most part, since you lot hate the democratic masses, you should be proud of what the powerful individuals have achieved. They have dismissed the demands of the democratic masses.  Unfortunately for you, you are part of the democratic masses and not part of the republican elite.  Tough shit.


I really can't twist my brain in such illogical bends to be able to understand what it is anyone here even has to complain about.  Only thing I ever hear is: Waaaa, there are a group of people more powerful than me who are preventing me from being one of the powerful.  Oh well.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 10:30 | 2941024 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

      Waaaa, there are a group of people more powerful than me who are preventing me from being one of the powerful.


Ranting on the Internet is far less threatening to the status quo than standing up and doing something to improve life.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 01:48 | 2940155 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

Yeah, like cooperatives are a thing of the devil, while heirachical and dynastic ownership of labor is doing god's work.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 02:14 | 2940157 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Who said anything about free stuff? The same propagandistic / idiotic argument is always made, socialism is about getting "free stuff" from the gov. I believe in very limited governments and don't think anything comes free.

Socialism is simply a different way to think about how business is operated: corporations operate in the same way fascist governments operate. Socialist / collectivist organizations operate like the internet. Worth taking note; corporations require big governemnts, the internet works best with very little governance.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 02:37 | 2940225 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

Wow, a "true believer". There was me thinking that you lot had gone the way of the "dodo"!. Or, at least, would have moved on and joined the like minded in the "Green" movement or better still embraced "The Third Way".

Last retard that I heard making this kind of argument was 1986 at university.

Keep, posting James we need the humour... thanks!

A quick test of your faith.... do you still drive a Pre-Yeltsin Lada?

Enjoy this:

If this was subtle sarcasm on your part then please accept my sincere apologies.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 08:11 | 2940487 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

You're a Fabian Utopian type I see. No wonder you're an idiot.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:07 | 2941677 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Nope. I'm simply advocating the same type of system most everyone else is on here, take the power out of the federal gov and give it to the local populations so they can make the decisions that actually affect them. I'm just applying it to business.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 01:02 | 2940098 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

"The goal of socialism, is communism" - Vladimir Lenin

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 03:17 | 2940249 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Wasn't he a jew?... Sounds typical... a few 'chosen ones' to run things [into the ground] from on top & steal any & all value produced from the labor of proles who scratch around for food & wonder what the hell just happened...

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 04:11 | 2940271 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

What did the soviet model produce besides long bread lines?

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 12:01 | 2941410 Matt
Matt's picture

They didn't have EBT, which is a technological advance, not a difference between USSR and USSA.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 23:29 | 2939969 ACP
ACP's picture

+ Most people don't know the Communist Party leaders even had their own mall, kinda like how Congress has its own priviledges.

First an elitist mall, then office space for the Commies, then as complacency set in, back to an elitist mall for the wealthy party leaders.

There is an underground mall nearby nowadays, for peons.

OK, last post on this article, beat this to death...

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 23:13 | 2939929 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Socialism doesn't work and has collapsed every society where it's been implemented.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 23:24 | 2939956 tickhound
tickhound's picture

Stay tuned... You're eternal growth capitalist model will prove equally "beneficial" to society, I'm sure of it.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 23:34 | 2939988 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

No system is perfect, but capitalism is far better than any other.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 23:38 | 2940001 tickhound
tickhound's picture


Finite puts an end to growth.  Period.  Ultimately, profit, as we know it, will become obsolete.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 01:03 | 2940101 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Capitalism seeks efficiency. Perpetual growth is the result of currency debasement. Get rid of those rapidly devaluing fiatscos.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 01:23 | 2940118 tickhound
tickhound's picture

It seeks profit, not efficiency.  Currency debasement is a symptom of monetarism, and a reliable one as long as scarcity remains profitable.  What can be so efficient about the planned obsolescence of products?  The consistent profit margins?  LOL 

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 01:26 | 2940127 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Efficiency is a means to profits. So my premise stands.

Currency debasement is a symptom, and a reliable one as long as scarcity remains profitable.

Scarcity is the problem of a finite world. Capitalism attempts to solve this challenge through seeking the most efficient methods of production possible, given current knowledge.

Planning the obsolescence of products is not efficient, it is profitable.

yet another uninteded consequence of government intervention. Conflating the Free Market, with a system which is the remnamt centuries of oligarchical rules, is utterly disingenuous.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 02:16 | 2940199 tickhound
tickhound's picture

"Scarcity is the problem of a finite world. Capitalism attempts to solve this challenge through seeking the most efficient methods of production possible, given current knowledge"

You don't really buy this shit still, do you?  In ANY "for profit" system scarcity is a constant... An ALWAYS.  It doesn't matter the abundance of the product or resource.

Whether it is planned obsolenscence or farm subsidies / mandatory crop reduction/destruction, the privatization of water, rare mineral destruction or "peak oil" phrases.  Even patents produce and affect scarcity.  Much of the scarcity we chase around the world, to include perceived scarcity, is manufactured for profit.

WERE IT EVER TO BE TRUE, that there exists a free and abundant energy, I promise you that capitalism, or ANY FUCKING FOR PROFIT ISM, will never find it.

Big Pharma knows why we still fight plaque.


Fri, 11/02/2012 - 02:44 | 2940227 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

You don't really buy this shit still, do you?

Hmm...your question implies an answer. Please keep the discussion to the actual data.

In ANY "for profit" system scarcity is a constant... An ALWAYS.  It doesn't matter the abundance of the product or resource.

Once upon a time, whales were hunted to the brink of extinction, for their oil. Some oil guy came along and made kerosene so cheap, that it supplanted whale oil, thus saving the whales. The idea that the best days of innovation are behind us, are flatly absurd, given the evidence at hand.

blah blah blah....Farm subsidies/crop reduction...blah blah blah

Where/how, in the free market is there room for subsidies, and crop destruction? Thanks in advance.

privatization of water

Is that how water is stolen from The Owens Valley, for LA? Since I frequently consult, and build networks for "Special Government Disctricts" responsible for water delivery, I can tell you that water is far from privatized.

WERE IT EVER TO BE TRUE, that there exists a free and abundant energy, I promise you that capitalism, or ANY FUCKING FOR PROFIT ISM, will never find it.

Please demonstrate, for the rest of the class how you arrived at this conclusion, when history demonstrates completely the opposite.

Big Pharma knows why we still fight plaque.

How is this capitalism, given the War on Drugs? Thanks again, in advance.


Fri, 11/02/2012 - 03:08 | 2940240 tickhound
tickhound's picture

"In advance"  LOL

Anyway, you've only proved the point.  Nothing can EVER be as efficient as possible if profit is the end.  There will always be waste.  But, regardless, I don't think you understand the meaning of scarcity as it relates here.

"For profit" gets you the War on Drugs.  It gets you scarcity where little should be.  And all the problems associated with...

"Best days of innovation are behind us" 

Of course they aren't, fool.  The answers ultimately are technical, not political.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 03:16 | 2940252 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Not to mention one of capitalisms greatest source of profits is peoples stupidity.

"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 06:09 | 2940353 Tango in the Blight
Tango in the Blight's picture

The lightbulb that never needs replacing and the bicycle tyre that never punctures have probably long been invented but were kept under wraps because they don't fit the capitalist model. People only would have to buy them once, so where's the longterm profit to be made?

I once saw an old movie called The Man in the White Suit which is about an inventor who had invented a fabric that does not wear and doesn't need washing. He got both the textile manufacturers and the washing ladies up in arms because his invention threatened their livelihoods. In the end they nearly teared him limb from limb until they discovered that the fabric wasn't so perfect after all.


Fri, 11/02/2012 - 08:15 | 2940494 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

They violate the laws of physics, that's why they haven't been invented.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 12:21 | 2941506 Matt
Matt's picture

There have been light bulbs that last >100 years, and you could probably use a material similar to Good Year run-flats to have a self-resealing tire for bicycles. This meets the intended desires of the "forever lgiht bulb" and "puncture proof bicycle tire".

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 12:18 | 2941492 Mr. Magniloquent
Mr. Magniloquent's picture

You are conflating government coercion with free markets. The United States does not operate within a capitalist frame, but a facist one. This is to say, governments and business use eachother for social engineering and patronage respectively.

Farm subsidies are legalized theft. Crap reduction/destruction has NEVER occured outside of government coercion. Almost no water system in any country is privately owned, and the context in which they operate are forcibly controlled by government regulations and restrictions. Patents are a government enforced monopoly. They cannot, and have never existed outside of state coercion.

Planned obsolesence does exist, but it is only permissible in that which people are willing to accept it. Reliability and longevity are two major reasons why Japanese vehilces surpassed Yankee automobiles. The time preference varies from product to product, but in the end, people get both what they want and deserve.

I'm uncertain as to what you are ultimately angry with. All but one of your items is caused by government violence. Do you not believe people should be compensated for their efforts? Do you not believe people willingly exchanging goods and services at mutual benefit is ideal?

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 10:33 | 2941041 Overfed
Overfed's picture

What capitalism? We haven't had that here in a long time. Your 'social welfare/free shit for breathing air and manufacturing turds' system is what is on the verge of collapse.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 23:27 | 2939964 Cosmicserpent
Cosmicserpent's picture

Yeah! Sweden, France and Finland in total chaos! Idiot.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 23:37 | 2939996 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

They are in pre-collapse, living off deficit spending. Wait till the money runs out....socialism will disappear like a fart in a hurricane.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 23:54 | 2940032 tickhound
tickhound's picture

LOL!   "Living off deficit spending"  "they are in pre-collapse" 

sounds like every "ism" right now. 

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 01:51 | 2940159 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

Really, you think the economies of Sweden and Norway, for example, are in worse shape than the USA? You think the average Ameican lives better than the average Swede right now? Better check the stats, homie.  

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 08:17 | 2940496 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

More obese Americans, yep Americans are better off they are so well off they conned half the world to loan them money with no intentions to pay them off and got rich and fat off it. I would Americans did pretty good.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 01:05 | 2940103 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

How many Krona devaluations in the last 30 years?

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 23:28 | 2939968 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Show me a single pure free market system in the world that has worked.  Or even that has existed.  Ever.   The debate on this thread is laughable in the amount of ideological blindness reflected all around.  By the definition commonly used on this thread, airports are socialist.  Roads are socialist.  The military is socialist.   An intelligent discussion on this issue would acknowledge that there are many different definitions of socialism that go from worker owned production to more mundane concepts like group funding of public works, a publicly funded court system, etc.  The U.S. has been socialist since it was founded by the definition intended by the young people referenced in this article.  What they are against is crony capitalism, which seems to be the only kind that exists in the real world.  

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 01:21 | 2940119 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Show me a single pure free market system in the world that has worked. Or even that has existed. Ever.

Lets go over this logic fail a-fucking-gain. If, as you imply, pure free markets have never existed, how can free markets have ever failed?

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 01:21 | 2940120 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

God, you're an insufferable, irritating loser.  Why don't you just start posting to the HuffPo as I advised months back.

The problem with socialism is that pretty soon you run out of other people's money.  That's whats happening right now to all the welfare states in the world.  If you don't own it you don't give a shit which is why only a moron would buy a rental car for example.  Its really that simple.  Any system not involving profit, self-interest and ownership is due for an epic fall.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 12:30 | 2941540 High_Pockets
High_Pockets's picture

5 people were dumb enough to buy a rental car.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 08:31 | 2940524 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

The system is not flawed, the implementation was.  The objective of any society is to produce surplus.  How that surplus is produced is what failed.  How that surplus is distributed is the difference between the greedy bastards and the generous. 

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 10:35 | 2941051 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

     The objective of any society is to produce surplus.

Where'd you get that idea?

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 00:59 | 2940094 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

If socialism is so great, where is the USSR? Nazi Germany? Fascist Italy?

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 22:10 | 2939738 flacon
flacon's picture

CIALIAS - the drug for impotence

soCIALIASm - the drug for impotence

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 22:18 | 2939762 ACP
ACP's picture

One is a cure, one is a cause!

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 07:48 | 2940446 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

All I know is you appear to wind up in separated bathtubs...

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 22:25 | 2939788 philipat
philipat's picture

it's actually CIALIS not CIALI..AS. Depending on what you choose to do with your woody, I suppose???

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 22:14 | 2939748 outofhere
outofhere's picture

Create a new "I" device.  Harrison said it best in "I Me Mine".

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 22:23 | 2939780 philipat
philipat's picture

Joking apart, it is actually very disturbing. That cohort is the future and a system has to work for society. Clearly, the present system is not working and these attitudes reflect that.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 22:32 | 2939812 ZeroAvatar
ZeroAvatar's picture

Capitalism worked great for 100 million people.  308 million and counting?  Not so much.


Socialism creep will become as prevalent as 'Muslim' creep.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 22:58 | 2939886 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

capitalism works great for banksters and those with significant investiable assets.


socialism works great for low skilled average union folk.


middle to upper middle professionals? always getting screwed. Watch out, piss them off, then they will engineer a revolution.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 23:18 | 2939940 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Henry Ford paid his workers $5 per day (4 trounces Ag) around  1920 .... NO SOCIALIST SYSTEM WAS EVER THAT GOOD TO WORKERS !     The upper 1 % in Socialism have hideous advantages and privileges of power !   Let's take up a collection and send Huxley to the Ludwig Von Mises institute ?   

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 23:34 | 2939986 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Go ahead and worship at the corporate altar like Von Mises.   It is the corrupt corporations that have ruined America, not the "socialists."  The corporatists have hideous advantages and privileges of power.  Take off your ideological blinders and look around you.   

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 01:08 | 2940105 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

of course corporations are a creation of government, which is mutually exlusive to free markets and individual freedom. So it is not corporations, but government that have resulted in this mess.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 10:39 | 2941072 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Whenever the damn government gets involved, there is corruption that benefits the rich. Always. Every fuckin' time, every fuckin' place. Statists never seem to get that.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 06:01 | 2940343 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

The upper 1 % in Socialism have hideous advantages and privileges of power!

Which is like, totally the opposite of the capitalist 1%? Bwahahahaha.

Your mention of Henry Ford is interesting.  Today's equivalent to the 1920 wage of $5 per hour, adjusted for inflation would be $57 an hour. Why aren't modern American capitalists paying that wage today? 

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 06:19 | 2940360 Tango in the Blight
Tango in the Blight's picture

Nearly everything that Americans own is made in communist China by workers who earn slave wages and has been financed by debt. Yet the rest of the world is supposed to see America as the shining beacon of capitalism and be envious of Wallmarts and Big Gulps.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 08:21 | 2940500 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Yeah they make us stuff in exchange for worthless pieces of paper. I'd say we won.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 10:39 | 2941073 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Except that the more we "buy" from the Chinese, the more the lives of Americans come to resemble the lives of the Chinese.

There'll still be millions of Americans bragging about how great Americanist capitalism is while sleeping in dorms and working 80 hour weeks for enough money to maintain a diet of rice.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 15:11 | 2942278 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Sure, that's in the distant future, after all the Chinese can not actively read this site.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 17:05 | 2942765 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

The only Chinese who can't read this site are the ones who don't really know how to operate computers.  There are probably more expert computer users in China than there are AMERICANS.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 10:40 | 2941081 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Ol Henry could afford that then because he wasn't being bled dry by the social welfare system. Duh.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 00:58 | 2940093 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

Capitalism worked pretty good for the middle and upper middle income classes.

It was the Federal Reserve/Fractional Reserve/Fiat paper/Income Tax that screwed the middle and upper middle income classes and benefited the banksters and Central Banksters.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 01:55 | 2940166 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

Right, like blue collar workers have not been getting totally fucked since the 1970s.  

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 23:17 | 2939937 outofhere
outofhere's picture

Joking apart, it is the truth that is most disturbing.  I have children, grand children and a great grand daughter and the truth is there is no future for them and it is partly my fault for not being more diligent in the past.  But then again the socialism started 100 years before i was born i.e. the end of State sovereignty.  Be very careful when you make a statement such as "a system has to work for society".  


Thu, 11/01/2012 - 23:37 | 2939995 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Yes, airports are scary.  And so are roads and GPS (NASA created technology).  I can barely contain my fear!    What is disturbing is the ideological ignorance of so many who equate communism with socialism with the hybrid capitalist/socialist that has caused the West to flourish, before it was taken over by oligarchs who would be just as comfortable running the old Soviet Union.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 23:48 | 2940022 outofhere
outofhere's picture

The banking oligarchy won't be comfortable until they run the world.  Socialism doesn't equal but in actuality leads to communism.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 01:30 | 2940133 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

The parable of how to catch wild pigs comes to mind. Next?

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 22:34 | 2939803 ZeroAvatar
ZeroAvatar's picture


Thu, 11/01/2012 - 22:39 | 2939837 taniquetil
taniquetil's picture

It's already been done. It's called Whole Foods.


That CEO probably has a picture of a hipster with the caption "SUCKERS!" on his office wall.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 23:52 | 2940030 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture


Fri, 11/02/2012 - 05:53 | 2940339 Tango in the Blight
Tango in the Blight's picture

Sell them Che Guevara posters, t-shirts, mugs, mouse mats, etc. Ole Che must be spinning in his grave that his image is as ubiquitous in the western world as Mickey Mouse and that capitalists make loads of money from it. And most kids don't even know who he was, to him he is just a hip fashion icon.


Fri, 11/02/2012 - 08:56 | 2940661 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture


Psychologists discuss cognative dissonance - and why many people are in a state of denial (you can substitute "capitalism" for "9/11" in this video - still the same message):



They are a step behind. The first goal of the devil is to convince humanity that the devil doesn't exist at all. That allows for additional deceptions such as a free society.



Fri, 11/02/2012 - 10:01 | 2940913 PeaceMonger
PeaceMonger's picture

It looks like the 18-29 crowd know how to call a spade a spade instead of the dilusional elderly.  This is already a Socialist country, and hasn't been Capitalist for years.  

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 22:02 | 2939712 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Americans Aged 18-29 Have A More Favorable Response To Socialism Than To Capitalism"

Thank you fucking government school system. Then the parents get tired of supporting your sorry ass and at thirty you get a severe dose of reality.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 22:04 | 2939720 ACP
ACP's picture

Correction: Forty.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 22:09 | 2939736 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Civilization - Some Restrictions Apply

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 22:20 | 2939770 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Americans 18-29 have a better response to crack than broken femurs

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 22:25 | 2939789 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Pretty sad ain't it DJ...when I was coming up we wanted to get the hell away from mom & dad.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 22:29 | 2939798 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

pretty sure our youngsters will be pretty pissed at us as time goes on

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 22:40 | 2939840 nmewn
nmewn's picture

As surely as the world turns ;-)

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 01:35 | 2940137 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

"Give us the child for 8 years, and it will be a Bolshevik forever." - Lenin

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 06:04 | 2940345 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

"Give us the adult for 8 years, and they will be Republican forever." - Rupert Murdoch

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 23:39 | 2940005 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture



“We should do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian Darwinian theory he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living.”

-- Buckminster Fuller


Fri, 11/02/2012 - 00:48 | 2940076 tickhound
tickhound's picture

Yes, this, THIS, bitchez.  Technology, automation... these should "earn" the living.   

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 01:37 | 2940138 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

yet price have risen, contrary to their natural tendency, given improvemnts in methods of production. Please explain.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 02:36 | 2940209 tickhound
tickhound's picture

Look dude, to keep this in line with the other thread... There is NO MONEY in a cure.  Our ism, yes our, prefers you to be and PROFITS FROM YOU BEING, sick.  And there is nothing efficient about that.  Unless, of course, profit is your measure of efficiency.  In which case our publicly traded prison system remains a beacon of efficiency. 

The answers we all want will be found from the scientists and technicians... Not politicians and bureaucrats.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 03:01 | 2940243 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

There is NO MONEY in a cure.

How is this capitalism, when the gummin enforces drug prohibitions? Let me guess..that capitalists took over gummint. Of course this is not capitalism, or the free market. Capitalism is merely a term which describes the natural methods in which people dispose of their private property.

prefers you to be and PROFITS FROM YOU BEING, sick

In which case our publicly traded prison system remains a beacon of efficiency.

A system which thrives on the ability of gubmint to make shit illegal.Go peddle your horse piss elsewhere, chief. You are 100% free to create some socialist/communist/fascist utopia, so long as you are able to do so without pointing your gun, or the guns of gummint, at other people.

Good luck to you.

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