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Hurricane Sandy Satellite Photos: Before And After

Tyler Durden's picture


While New Yorkers living south of 34th Street have to live in cold and dark for an indefinite period of time (ConEd has been firm electricity will be restored by the weekend, it has been far more vague just which weekend it had in mind), the biggest devastataion from Sandy took place further south, primarily along the New Jersey coastline. In order to get a sense of the devastation that has taken place, we present images from the NOAA's satellite photo tracker, which shows aerial comparisons of the Jersey and Delaware coastline before and after. Because while one can contemplate navels in very broad terms if any wealth is created or destroyed due to Sandy breaking many windows at the macro level, any and all people who lived in the affected territories below will have a far more practical answer to this stupid question.


Mantoloking before:

Mantoloking after:


New Jersey coastline before:

New Jersey coastline after:


New Jersey coastline before:

New Jersey coastline after:


New Jersey coastline before:

New Jersey coastline after:


New Jersey coastline before:

New Jersey coastline after:


New Jersey coastline before:

New Jersey coastline after:


New Jersey coastline before:

New Jersey coastline after:


Atlantic City coastline before:

Atlantic City after:


Atlantic City before:

Atlantic City after:


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Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:01 | 2938397 Dumpster Fire
Dumpster Fire's picture

Looks cleaner

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:04 | 2938408 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

BREAKING NEWS: Scientists have now confirmed that Hurricane Sandy was caused by CO2. Scientists carried out 10^999999999999999 Monte Carlo simulations with various permutations of 10^999999  coimatic factors to prove that in the absence of man-made CO2, Sandy would not have occurred. Again, this begs the question: How many people need to die before right-wingers support an international tax on carbon emissions?

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:12 | 2938422 redpill
redpill's picture

Al Gore and MDB said it, so it must be true.


I hope Snookie didn't lose her iPhone charger in all of that.


You can see the sheen on that water from all the hair grease that got pulled out to see from the Jersey shore.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:12 | 2938467 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

Pick up a copy of the book "Watermelon".  it will tell you all you need to know about the BS green movement...

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:27 | 2938526 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Yet Snooki lives!

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:31 | 2938539 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

This shows how obsolete cities really are, and how vulnerable to even slight disruptions.

Many people are suffering, but this is nothing compared to a serious terrorist effort.  The lights could be off for months.  How many New Yorkers would survive that?

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:34 | 2938563 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Snooki want smoosh-smoosh:

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:44 | 2938606 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

That scares the shit out of me Plad, and I'm not afraid of nothin'.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 16:13 | 2938728 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

All the brain dead ass-backwards morons on here complaining about science / scientists need to gtfo their computers, cancel their electricity, abandon their cars, strip off their clothes and move to the forest.

Because without science you would be naked animals running around forests. Instead, the unfortunate by-product of technological advancement is morons like you wind up on COMPUTERS engineered and built by scientists to rant your pea brains off about things you know nothing about. 


Thu, 11/01/2012 - 16:34 | 2938796 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture


Thu, 11/01/2012 - 18:04 | 2939066 Richard Chesler
Richard Chesler's picture

That's nothing compared to what a few Goldman bankers could do with the place.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 21:26 | 2939607 Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

Watched Anderson Cooper tonight and while interviewing Governor Cuomo in the flooded bowels of Ground Zero Cuomo said, "We don't just rebuild, we rebuild better."

Once again a public official makes a comment mirroring the Isaiah 9:10 prophesy which projected the destruction of Ancient Israel.

See "The Harbinger" by NYC rabbi Jonathan Cahn:

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 23:57 | 2940037 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Don't see the problem. Just look at all those lovely broken windows, you can just feel the wealth. Next week the sun will be out and we'll all have jobs again fixing them and these pictures will look a whole lot nicer, and brighter. Hell there'll even be a new president.

Fresh start.

Live it, and remember, you're fucking loaded now, Krugman says so.

I was thinking of pootlin' on down there and floggin a few truck loads of luxury cars now that everyone's going to have more than they can possibly spend, and I know I could spend lots...

Happy on the inside.

That's me, just living the dream, from a distance...

Calling all investment advisers; these guys are fucking loaded, you can smell it. What're you waiting for?

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 07:17 | 2940408 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

I see at least one job opportunity down there... for a 'pool guy'...

and some 'mildly pear shaped' mortgage backed securities...

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:16 | 2941721 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

i just ran into a guy at home depot looking to buy a dirty water pump to try and pump 30,000 gallons of sea water/sand mix from his pool...came to Delawho over from jersey


jobs for pool guys indeed

and the fireplace store was bangin' too when i was out

damn line outside the place waiting for it to open

broken window equivalents bitchez

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 07:45 | 2940442 tabasco71
tabasco71's picture

"That's nothing compared to what a few Goldman bankers could do with the place"

LOL +1

Now thats funny!

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 16:36 | 2938802 blu
blu's picture

Don't even try. These guys seriously do not care. They've got a few more stages of grief before they'll be able to face the end of their world like men.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 17:05 | 2938898 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

"..without science we'd be naked"

without Govt crone junk science we'd be in Gold plated robes the amount these crooks try rob off us

Europe alone has spent $billions on wind turbines, it's so desperate they hook them up to diesel engines to keep generating and make money out of these bankrupt devices

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 18:59 | 2939245 Doña K
Doña K's picture

Science tells us that the Canary Islands volcano west side will eventually slide into the Atlantic. You have been warned. The whole east coast is in danger in some places more than 10+ miles inland.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 21:07 | 2939562 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

True dat.


NYC and Bloomburg/Cuomo need to prepare NOW.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 17:36 | 2942919 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Sounds like a James Bond movie.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 17:24 | 2938950 R_J
R_J's picture

...and with science we get someone like YOU spill UTTER and complete SHITE!


Thu, 11/01/2012 - 17:42 | 2939008 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Ya know, your rant might be slightly more relevant if you actually replied to an OPPOSING opinion, rather than randomly clicking about the page until a reply box appears.

Instead? It is the hallmark of a brain dead ass-backwards moron.

The more you know!

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 19:10 | 2939272 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Unrelated to the current kerfuffle but...probably not a good idea to build on BARRIER ISLANDS. I mean, they call them barrier islands for a reason.

They rolled the dice and lost. About every hundred years or so one of these puppies makes it up to the NE.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 19:57 | 2939374 JuicedGamma
JuicedGamma's picture

Unfortunately, the taxpayer (the few of us left) get to share in the less since most of these properties are insured with Federally subsidized flood insurance. 


Thu, 11/01/2012 - 20:05 | 2939399 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Kerfuffle?  I've got to quit promoting Yiddish for Your Dog, but, Teaching Your Cat to Play Violin, is a great read.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 20:45 | 2939487 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Its Scottish ;-)

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 21:09 | 2939563 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture


Thu, 11/01/2012 - 18:02 | 2939061 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

James_Cole?  Is that you James, is this me?

Trust me James, anytime science reveals something that makes the establishment uncomforatable they will go to war with science. They believe science is there to provide only what they want to hear. There was a time when science told them the world was not flat, it enraged the establishment for several centuries.

It is funny to hear them trash science while they type away on a computer dependent on semiconductor physics which needs quantum mechanics to be real. Now global warming science is childs play compared to quantum mechanics, but still they type away in denial of demonstable facts.

It is in the nature of the closed minded to cling to only what makes them comfortable. Rush Limbaugh makes them comfortable. The laws of physics are too hard for them, they must think, and why think when Limbaugh can reveal the truth for them and they don't have to strain a brain cell.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 18:27 | 2939138 laozi
laozi's picture

You are correct sir. My daughter is 6 but I doubt she would make the same mistakes as most people here. Have I been reading the comments written by a bunch of mentally challenged 12 year olds? Now I start to doubt my own intelligence for even being here.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 19:38 | 2939336 Mr Pink
Mr Pink's picture


Thu, 11/01/2012 - 22:48 | 2939859 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

"Now I start to doubt my own intelligence for even being here."

As long as you avoid the guest posts & posts which even vaguely reference climate change and stick to the posts centred on finance the morons mostly disappear.

After looking at the pictures I was curious if anyone from the areas affected would be commenting - big mistake. First things I read are how scientists are always wrong and climate change is a big jewish conspiracy.

Below on this thread some moron brings up guns, gold & rib eye steaks as things completely divorced from science… stupidity truly is infinite!

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 07:21 | 2940415 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

You are right. Bye.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 18:31 | 2939150 vulcanraven
vulcanraven's picture


Thu, 11/01/2012 - 18:37 | 2939170 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

"All the brain dead ass-backwards morons on here...strip off their clothes and move to the forest."

Give me a minute.  I'm trying to think of the right way to say you and MDB will be missed.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 18:53 | 2939227 uncle_vito
uncle_vito's picture

Without science guns, gold, and rib eye steaks are still real.   So is hooch.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 19:01 | 2939246 knukles
knukles's picture

'Nuff said.
Newfangled climate science looses hands sown.

Let them starve with their Priuses in the dark

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 20:47 | 2939491 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

Pry my Prius from my cold, dead hands...

I don't know whay I said that, I just felt like it

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 16:02 | 2938690 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Devastated indeed, but i don't see tears around the world for us.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 16:31 | 2938786 CommunityStandard
CommunityStandard's picture

Duh, they hate us for our freedoms.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 16:35 | 2938800 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture


Thu, 11/01/2012 - 16:44 | 2938827 CommunityStandard
CommunityStandard's picture

Yes, now stop asking questions before we detain you.  And pay no attention to that drone, it's protecting your freedoms.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 16:53 | 2938855 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

That's more like it...

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 16:43 | 2938825 aerojet
aerojet's picture

I don't think that's the lesson here.  It's more like: "If you value your shit, don't live near the coast."  But we've always known that.  Also, we could build hurricane-proof cities, we just don't because it would be very expensive and NYC doesn't get hit by them very often.  They'll put it all back together, they have the technology.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 18:02 | 2939062 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Not to worry, the Berstank will print and everyone will be made whole, whether or not you owned property at the shore.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 19:19 | 2939291 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

    this is nothing compared to a serious terrorist effort., dude, you're obviously an innumerate with no comprehension of scale.

Flooding lower Manhattan is not something a terrorist attack could ever BEGIN to compete with unless you're talking about a backpack nuke, and as far as we know, those don't exist.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 21:14 | 2939580 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture



" ... backpack nuke ... "


To start with, they have a short shelf-life (seriously; they, their components, degrade rapidly w/time so as to become inerrt/worthless in a relatively short period of time)

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 23:07 | 2939907 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

Been around since the late 1950's. Safe to say the technology has not only proliferated, but improved significantly, since that time.

This is wikipedia, about as open, unclassified and easy as it gets, research-wise.  No sarc tag maybe?

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 05:55 | 2940341 MillionDollarBoner_
MillionDollarBoner_'s picture

"backpack nuke" - WTF?!?!

I live just up the road from Felixstowe, the biggest port in the UK. I was chatting once with the guy in charge of security there and he said their biggest fear is of a shipping container arriving into port carrying a "dirty bomb". I understood this meant low grade nuclear waste mixed with explosives. He said there is no way to easily counter this as the detonation could be made prior to the ship docking.

So, low-tech beats hi-tech yet again...Go DHS!

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:59 | 2942226 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

A dirty-bomb wouldn't do a tenth the damage to Manhattan that the flooding just did.  That was my point.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:58 | 2942222 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Military hardware that's never been operationally deployed is mostly a fraud.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 11:44 | 2941339 Freddie
Freddie's picture

It is absurd to build cities and buildings 50, 100, 200 feet away from oceans and rivers.  Floods and surges happen.  Meanwhile, NYC Marathoners will be stepping over the bodies on their way to the champagne and lobster. 

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 16:45 | 2938831 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

looks like more than 100 houses missing/damaged from photo1 to photo2

IANAA (I am not an adjuster) but .. at a payout of $10k per house, this event could cost the insurers over a million dollars

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 17:45 | 2939014 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Ummm... the only insurer selling flood insurance is Uncle Sugar. IANAA either, but I think the storm surge trumps any wind damage that might have occured first.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 18:40 | 2939182 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

spoiler: 10k might be a bit of a lowball

spoiler2: million might be a bit of a lowball

spoiler3: 100 houses might be a bit of a lowball

hope you readers along the nj coast are able to get compensated quickly and return to something more normal soon

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:32 | 2938548 ZippyBananaPants
Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:51 | 2938644 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Merely confirms what we all suspected.  Carbon credits are a scam, and its all a push for non-elected global governance by the Oligarchs/Mega Rich.

Will try to read it if it becomes readily available, though.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 19:39 | 2939337 Zero Hero
Zero Hero's picture

The author (James Delingpole) is a attention-seeker who just makes stuff up. From the bio on Wikipedia:

In a BBC Horizon documentary, "Science under Attack", Delingpole responded to an assertion made by Paul Nurse that there is a scientific consensus in relation to global warming by stating that the idea of a consensus is unscientific. In response to Nurse's question as to whether he had read any peer-reviewed papers, he maintained that as a journalist "it is not my job" to read peer reviewed papers, but be "an interpreter of interpretations"


You can safely ignore him.


Thu, 11/01/2012 - 21:21 | 2939587 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture




Crap post.



(He must have bested your buns in a debate.)


PS On as highly charged a subject as Climate Change (cough cough) do you REALLY think that wiki entry is balanced?


Do you know who William Connolley, mad wiki editor on climate matters is? Well, he's back after a forced banishment of 6 or 12 mos ... 


Read up on this dude who revises history on wiki climate subject regularly:



Fri, 11/02/2012 - 11:48 | 2941358 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The BBC?  LOL!  The "news" organization that allowed a pervasive pedophile ring to flourish at the BBC for DECADES with rapists like Jimmy Saville, Gary Glitter, et al?  The BBC has zero credibility like Penn(ile) State.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:52 | 2938651 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

So in MA we have all these libs running around yelling about the world ending.  So someone wants to put a windmill farm off of Cape Cod in an effort to save the world.  The Kennedy's and the other rich libs got it shut down because it was going to ruin their view and interfere with their yacht races.

Same thing with freakin ManBearBig, using 10x the electricity of his neighbors and buying a house on the edge of a cliff near the ocean.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 16:33 | 2938794 odatruf
odatruf's picture

The irony is that the Kennedys teamed up with Koch brothers, who also own prime Nantucket Sound real estate, to keep Cape Wind down. See, politics really does stop at the water's edge...


Thu, 11/01/2012 - 17:01 | 2938885 Straw Dog
Straw Dog's picture

It's "Watermelons" plural, The Green Movements True Colors by Delingpole. Gets great reviews on Amazon.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 17:05 | 2938900 googlenerd
googlenerd's picture

Also check out "The Inconvenient Skeptic: The Comprehensive Guide to the Earth's Climate" by John Kehr to learn about the science concerning the earths climate and greenhouse gases...

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:16 | 2938470 Western
Western's picture

thats pretty fuckin funny


MDB you're becoming undisciplined, Keynesian propaganda says Sandy is good... none of this environmental nonesense.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:31 | 2938540 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

A Sandy cocktail is a Manhattan with extra water.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:56 | 2938668 Griphook
Griphook's picture

Bet it tastes like garbage. 

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 18:04 | 2939067 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Better be 16 oz's or less or there will be hell to pay.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 18:47 | 2939204 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

Nah, you're confused, Evil.  Only sodas that cause diabetes, obesity, and incredibly hyper children must be less than 16 ounces.  You can guzzle all the alcohol you want, in any size bottle.  Nanny Bloomberg must own a vineyard or hops field someplace. ;)

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 19:42 | 2939349 Mr Pink
Mr Pink's picture

or sewage

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:32 | 2938550 Matt
Matt's picture

Carbon Tax means more funds to apply Keynesian Multipliers with. Think of it as stimulus, forever.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 19:43 | 2939351 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

Carbon Tax is a Tax on Life. We are a Carbon based life form. Yes my Dad said one day they would come up with a tax on Breathing and they have.

It will get you cranky when they hit you $68.00 to burn your sorry carcass back to Black

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:13 | 2938474 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Too bad Sandy didn't wipe out more ugly ass east coast homes along with Snookie and friends who made $150k per episode and networth estimated at $4M.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:46 | 2938616 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Why do you hate capitalism, the free market, and St. Ayn?

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 16:11 | 2938725 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

you mean "free market" doesn't mean some people get shit for free?

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 16:22 | 2938768 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Well, I guess it depends on your definition of "earn."

The Snooki creatue didn't steal the money from the Jersey Shore producers, therefore she must have earned it.



Anyone who wants to use this as evidence that "most rich people earned their money," please feel free, but please also attribute it to me. Thanks.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 18:09 | 2939079 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Of course she earned it, it takes a lot of talent to maintain that same orange hue from episode to episode.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 18:56 | 2939238 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

if she earns monies for her sponsors, then she's earning monies.

it's like sports & viewers & stuff.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 16:03 | 2938661 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Hey aldous why don't you go fuck yourself. it's dickheads like you that lump everyone with fuckin snooky and wish them ill that remind me really stupid people are out there. snooky is just fine and i'm sure she will pass on the donation chance but you just go on believing everyone looks like what u see on the tv. shmuck.                                                                                                                                                                                                                   go ahead and junk. if you enjoy seeing a whole shitload of people suffer because you hope a few snooky's are inconvienced it says enough. you don't even need to bother.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 16:35 | 2938799 CommunityStandard
CommunityStandard's picture

Dude, only go to internet message boards when you want a reminder that people suck.  There's plenty of sympathy for the victims everywhere else, but don't expect any here.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 16:45 | 2938832 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

i never saw myself asking for sympathy anywhere.i'm not pulling the cry me a river crap. just pointing out the combination of malice and stupidity that got endorsed. i should not be surprised by it. but i was. whatever.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 18:59 | 2939244 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

malice + stupidity = lulz.

lulz = shit happens (to other people)

threads working as intended.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 11:58 | 2941394 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Blame idiots who watch TV and Hollywood's shit.  I bet you are one of those retards.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:14 | 2938479 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

Don’t believe me; believe the scientists. Scientists can now accurately predict properties of the climate from any permutation of the millions of climatic factors. The science is irrefutable, and climate deniers need to deal with the facts and support a global carbon tax.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:21 | 2938499 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I guess you're still a Ptolemy apprentice...

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 16:07 | 2938712 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Of course, to the unionized, left-wing, lying, fat 'n lazy MDB type, living 60 feet from the coast has nothing to do with it.


Thu, 11/01/2012 - 18:11 | 2939088 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Wow, a two-goocher from MDB.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 23:18 | 2939939 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

Love love love MDB.  Dude, I hope yer keepin screenies of yer greatest hits.  Retrospective man, for the lulz.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:26 | 2938513 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

If is irrefutable that scientists haven't cured AIDS, cancer, or the common cold; nor a fuel to replace dead dinosaurs.

Modern science has become a religion - when the facts are they are just a step above happenstance alchemists.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:32 | 2938545 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

If we have learned anything about Science over the last 500 years, it is that at any given point in human history, the "scientific consensus" is later proven to be wrong about most things. So, almost everything science holds as true today will be proven wrong later. By scientists.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:35 | 2938566 Matt
Matt's picture

Everything you know is wrong!

Down is Up,

Short is Long!

So forget the words, and sing-a-long

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:57 | 2938671 Ancona
Ancona's picture


In 1300 ad, the scientific concensus was that the earth was flat and the universe revolved around the earth. In addition, anyone who challenged the veracity of these ideas promulgated by the [at the time] most brilliant minds in the world, were burned at the stake as heretics. That didn't make the concensus any more right.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 16:09 | 2938717 Coast Watcher
Coast Watcher's picture

Without reference to MDB's beliefs, I'll point out that in 1300 AD there was no scientific conscensus becaue there were no scientists, only religion drawing conclusions based on a book of fables. To use that comparison is a bogus straw man argument.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 16:43 | 2938823 AT
AT's picture

Aristotle disagrees with you (and adds that you have poor logic faculty which might benefit from application of the Socratic method, though such an outcome is by no means guaranteed given the poor materials at hand). 

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 18:00 | 2939055 laozi
laozi's picture

So it was scientists that burned people for expressing a different opinion? Not the men of the cloth? A new and fresh side to history I have not yet heard about.

My respect for people at this forum sank like PM in a boating accident when I saw how little is known here about the process of scientific work, like ABAB testing, how you never can "prove" a theory, only prove it false, and so on.

Even people here defending scientific work call upon simple engineering achivements like electronics. Like: don't you love your TV?

Can any of you explain to me how the scientific process works? Just to prove to me you are qualified to have an opinion about the subject.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 18:11 | 2939090 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

laozi, I have to agree, reading just one page of these insane posts has dropped my opinion of the ZH community by a power of 10. I wonder how humans became so stupid, they must be products of the US education system. Such complete and utter ignorance is mind blowing.

They live in a world driven by science, they even use their computers which are driven by gains in science. One thing comes along like global warming that insults their dream world, and they throw all of science under the bus.

It is little wonder the world wants to return to the dark ages, most men are only fit for the dark ages. It is a fucking digrace to read some of this shit in the 21st century.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 18:47 | 2939165 akak
akak's picture

Jack Burton, I have to reluctantly agree with you about the consensus (kneejerk) view here on climate change.

What I primarily see here on ZH, and elsewhere, is an illogical and flawed thought process by climate change deniers. Merely because their political opponents can and have seized on a real-world event/process in order to further their statist political agenda, rather than fight the political agenda of their opponents directly (which is a worthy goal, and in which I would join them), they chose to fight and deny the real world event/process itself instead.

I have stated this many times, and will state it again, and will probably get many down-arrows from irratoinal Neanderthals here for doing so, but merely because your political opponent advances an agenda, no matter how destructive, it does not logically follow that the ostensible facts or reason for that agenda are thereby made moot, or must be attacked themselves, or hysterically denied.  It would be analogous to opposing all drunk driving laws simply because the increasingly authoritarian traffic cops use them as an excuse to institute mandatory highway checkpoints.

Attack the flawed agenda, not the facts behind it.

PS: I have no love for Al Gore, and cannot call myself convinced on AGW, at least as the SOLE cause of the currently warming climate.  However, to believe that humans can and have had NO effect on the climate whatsoever, when we already have had a demonstrable effect on atmospheric composition, to me amounts to anti-intellectual scientific no-nothingism and Biblical Dominionism of the worst kind.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 19:48 | 2939355 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

akak, Yes, that was well put. I do not like the use of global warming by a certain one world government neoliberal elite to further their control. But you are correct, FIGHT the neoliberals, they are the evil doers. But to go ballistic over demonstrable science is just nuts! Evidence is so strong, data so confirming, the physics is well established. Why are people too cowardly to fight the elites who want one world government, but because these elites are using climate change as a lever to grab for power, they attack the science. It makes NO sense. It is foolish.

The global warming is real, if the elite one worlders try and use that reality for their aims, you fight the one worlders! But NOooooooo! These ass clowns make fucking fools out of themselves trying to trash science and lay back and let the one worlder neoliberal banker class trash the entire globe. Some people deserve to live in the dark ages.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 22:32 | 2939811 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

I'll boil it down to a twitter feed -

Kill the Messenger (w/o regard to the underlying message)


Modern US society is nothing more than us vs. them, whatever the topic is. 

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 09:06 | 2943902 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Akak and Jack I missed your posts the first time. Well said both.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 07:33 | 2940428 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

I have a MUCH bigger problem w/911 truth deniers than I have with "man-made global warming" deniers. And let's call us what we are, not some euphemism they use now because "man-made global warming" is what's being denied, not "climate change."

The purpose of it is a global tax payable to the Rothschilds. How hard is that for some folks to see?

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 09:08 | 2943905 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

the oil companies' version of 911 and global warming are the same. How hard is that to see 

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 19:56 | 2939377 Coast Watcher
Coast Watcher's picture

Aristotle was alive in 1300 AD? Who knew? And please, point out the "scientists" who argued for the flat earth theory.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 17:00 | 2938882 Matt
Matt's picture

Some consider the "Green Movement" or whatever it is called, to be a religion that is allowing faith / beliefs to alter the science. It does seem that they are basically trying to sell you indulgences for your sins (Carbon Credits).

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 18:37 | 2939172 laozi
laozi's picture

Hey. When an exeriment can not be proven true by a competing team of scientist, the competing team will gladly tell the world and put the original team to shame. The paper called Science (have you heard about that one?) requires many teams to arrive at the same conclusions before they publish.

Unlike you, these guys are extremely serious.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 20:45 | 2939482 Ness.
Ness.'s picture

Al Gore, a career politicain, 'earned' a salary of roughly $150k/yr.  After 'earning' his Nobel Peace prize for Cimate change is now worth over $100mm and owns a carbon footprint rivaling of a small town.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 18:52 | 2939225 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

Galileo and Copernicus weren't scientists?  Dude, did you do anything with your history books besides doodle naked women in the margins?  Galileo's theory of the movement of the planets was centuries before his time, and furthermore, has been demonstrated to be correct.  The Roman Catholic Church persecuted him because he dared postulate that the sun was the center of the universe, and not the Earth as church doctrine mandated.  It's not a straw man argument at all.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 19:59 | 2939384 Coast Watcher
Coast Watcher's picture

In a world ruled by superstition, Galileo and Copernicus were outliers, not concensus builders.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 19:29 | 2939312 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

     In 1300 ad, the scientific concensus was that the earth was flat and the universe revolved around the earth.

That's not true--AT ALL. I hope you know better and are just spouting bullshit for rhetorical effect.

The folks writing the history books at the time were PUBLISHING that story, but it wasn't the "scientific consensus."  Galileo wasn't in trouble because the Church didn't BELIEVE the Earth went around the sun, but because they didn't want him spreading the news to people who weren't properly prepared.  That knowledge was thought to present a threat to the dominant power of the Church.

That's what happens when you let a group of rich oligarchs control scientific knowledge.

The fucking ancient GREEKS knew the Earth was a ball, and the diameter of the planet had already been calculated well before the myth of Jesu Christo had spread.

Wake up: science and "the scientific consensus" is NOT where the problem is.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 18:13 | 2939095 ForTheWorld
ForTheWorld's picture

I read a quote on the reviews page of that Watermelons book: "If it's consensus, it's not science, and if it's science, it's not consensus". I think there's truth to that.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 18:41 | 2939184 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

"the "scientific consensus" is later proven to be wrong about most things."

I'm always skeptical of blanket statements and I have a feeling Galileo would agree with my sentiment.

I think it's fairer to say we lack the appropriate perspective to be honest just yet...on both sides.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 02:17 | 2940200 Cosimo de Medici
Cosimo de Medici's picture

"Almost everything", even hyperbole.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 12:11 | 2941455 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Today - most scientists care about 2 things - grant money and tenure.  I had a friend to software work for famous universities. I will not name the names. One is "renowned" for (faux) medical research.   He said it was all about grant money and creating results to get more grant money.   He said the waste of taxpayer money was astronomical.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:40 | 2938591 RichardP
RichardP's picture

Everything you use in your daily life came from science (engineering is science/uses science), including your house, electricity, water, and car.  Unless you live in a tent made out of deer skin in the forest.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:27 | 2938527 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Clearly, MDB is some kind of algorhythm that spews anti-truth.  But we personally know friends, some of whom have "doctorates", that will say precisely this.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:36 | 2938572 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

PhD = Piled Higher and Deeper

Usually an indoctrination into an intellectual meme versus an education.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:45 | 2938611 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Yes, and of course they are all voting for Frank Marshall Davis Jr......

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:40 | 2938589 Cruel Aid
Cruel Aid's picture

If you knew anything about scientists, you would know that they run the gamut. Some are stupid with a theory.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:41 | 2938592 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

When all the fucking climate scientists in the world, can predict which horse will win the fourth at Aqueduct, get back to me.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 18:10 | 2939084 laozi
laozi's picture

Seriously, there is probably no use to talk to you about grown-up-matters like sceince anyhow. Don't wait up.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 16:38 | 2938811 blu
blu's picture

Carbon tax ain't gonna save us now.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 17:15 | 2938923 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

MDB believing in junk (science)

what a shocker

and Al 'can't stop lying' Gore the High Priest of the eco loons whose film, An Inconvenient Truth, had 9 inconvenient un-truths in it as found by a British Court, by parents wanting to stop the lying hysterical propaganda being shoved down their kids throats at State schools

Gore was advised for the film by "friends and top experts". 9 schoolboy scientific errors shows what type of 'experts' and 'friends' Gore keeps ..this fraud is dumb compounded

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 12:22 | 2941509 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Thank you ZG--not to mention that Cap'm Tax doesn't work anyway (whether man-made GW is real or isn't--which it isn't). The people who made this rather eloquent cartoon believe in man-made GW, apparently, but they have legitimate problems with Cap'm Tax.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 17:44 | 2939011 R_J
R_J's picture

ok, yeah,,uhmm 

-I live on 2 fiat dollars per day, and might even be a tad annoyed just because of this fact,  -but WTF does ""accurately predict properties of the climate from any permutation of the millions of climatic factors"" mean?

Pre-Diction: It sounds like these anti-humans are guessing...



Give into what you cannot fight, walk among us...

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:16 | 2938486 Lohn Jocke
Lohn Jocke's picture

I hate to sound like the Westboro church, but this was God's punishment for those D-bags on TV

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:33 | 2938554 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

God and HAARP is a deadly combo?

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 16:39 | 2938815 blu
blu's picture

If you hate it, then why did you do it?

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 16:55 | 2938861 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

next time i see a tornado rip apart the south i will remember it's larry the cable guys fault

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:19 | 2938490 BeaverFever
BeaverFever's picture

If the Goracle says it's true then verily it must be so.

All hail the Goracle.

Now let us flush the Goracle down the toilet along with his assistant MDB.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:25 | 2938516 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I had another thousand up on the Dow of Godzilla appeared.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 12:20 | 2941504 Freddie
Freddie's picture

No word from Gore on the Fiskers that exploded when they got wet.  BTW - why were they at a port in NJ?  Are the Fiskers built in Finland?  I lose track of all the Sillycon Valley scam electric cars that Obama is funding to the tune of billions.   Fiskers, Elon Musk's piece of shit, the Volt, the list goes on.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:24 | 2938511 aint no fortuna...
aint no fortunate son's picture

why the fuck would anyone have a freaking swimming pool one block from that fantastic beach??????????????

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:39 | 2938590 Matt
Matt's picture

Fresh water? No sharks? Maybe the city dumps untreated sewage into the ocean? Maybe swimming at night is illegal, and they like to swim at night? Maybe tyhey like to skinny-dip, which would probably get you serious jail time if some child saw you?

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:58 | 2938674 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Because Snooki and crew might walk right up to you.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 16:30 | 2938784 redpill
redpill's picture

So that you have a hot tube to drown in?

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 18:16 | 2939099 cents gradeschool
cents gradeschool's picture

so they can get sloppy drunk and leave their glass bottles where they drop em

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 18:17 | 2939104 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Because you have to pay to go on the Jersey beach, ahem, excuse me, the Jersey shore. You either have to get seasonal tags or daily tags. Can't just walk on the sand without a beach tag. And each township issues its own tags.

Go figure, I go to Florida and the beach is free, go to Jersey and you have to have a tag just to lie on the sand.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 22:38 | 2939832 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

That is fucking insane. I visit family in Deerfield Beach FL 2-3 times a year. The beaches are pristine for the most part and FREE. I can't believe one actually has to PAY to use a PUBLIC beach in NJ? 

I believe you, but that is just fucking nuts to pay to use a public beach.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 12:33 | 2941552 Freddie
Freddie's picture

NJ charges people to swim in NYC feces.  I would never swim on any NJ beach.  All these areas barely treat the sewage and pump it into the ocean.   Maybe former Governor Corzine thought NJ residents needed to pay for the priviledge to swim in a toilet.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:26 | 2938522 Random_Robert
Random_Robert's picture

Why should we carbon-tax people when it would be so much easier just to send the army door to door and put a lead slug in each of their brains...


MDB - always confusing the Big picture with the bigger picture, with the biggest picture of all.


Long wet-dry vacs

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 17:03 | 2938890 Matt
Matt's picture

Dead people do not generate taxes or corporate revenues.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 18:19 | 2939111 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Of course, that doesn't stop them from aborting fetuses year after year.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 19:34 | 2939329 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Is there really a reason to stop dead people from doing ANYTHING?

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 20:37 | 2939467 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

much smarter to let all those foeti be born, get their SS# and enter the race for survival. . .

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:06 | 2938428 malikai
malikai's picture

I'm glad to see you now know how to use wikipedia to find your buzzwords.

Congradulations, MDB.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:07 | 2938429 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I suggest we douse out the sun as well because surely is not a helping factor...

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:07 | 2938436 Martial
Martial's picture

Now I'm 100%  convinced you're just a pathetic troll.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:07 | 2938437 SilverMoneyBags
SilverMoneyBags's picture

A lot more people will die from not having a job because of this tax than would ever be saved because of this tax. Lets just keep driving everyone into poverty eh?

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:24 | 2938509 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

The money will be used to finance green technologies, which will create jobs for the poor. The government needs to step in and finance promising green start-ups or we risk a global crisis caused by climate change. These green entrepreneurs are our future, and it is morally reprehensible that you would deny politicians the funds to finance these companies and create a brighter future for everyone.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 15:29 | 2938534 Coldsun
Coldsun's picture

You forgot, incandescent light bulbs were banned. So in reality it's now a dimmer, more costly future filled with mercury thanks to government mandated green technology. Wait until that gets into the water table!

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