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Chart Of The Day: America's Geriatric Work F(a)rce

Tyler Durden's picture





 

The traditional excuse apologists for America's collapsing labor force participation rate use every month is that due to "demographics" and retiring baby boomers, increasingly more old workers are no longer counted by the BLS and as a result, are skewing the labor force. That's where they leave it because digging into details is not really anyone's forte anymore. This would be great if it was true. It isn't.

A month ago in "55 And Under? No Job For You" we presented visually and quite simply that of the 3.3 million jobs "created" (updated for October's data), a gasp-inducing 3.8 million has gone to workers aged 55 and over, or the one cohort that according to conventional wisdom is retiring, and actively leaving the workforce. How can America's elderly workers account for more than the total? Simple: workers in the young (16-19) and prime (25-54) cohorts have cumulatively lost a whopping 1.3 million, with just the 25-54 age group losing 842,000 jobs (don't believe us: spot check it right here courtesy of the Fed).

In other words, America's edlerly are not only not in a rush to retire, they are reentering the workforce (thanks to the Chairman's genocidal savings policy which has just rendered the value of all future deposits worthless thanks to ZIRP), and in doing so preventing younger workers, in their prime years, from generating incremental jobs.

And nowhere is this more visible than in today's jobs report. On the surface, the US generated a whopping 413,000 jobs (after generating a massive 873,000 last month) according to the Household Survey in October. That's great, unfortunately breaking down this cumulative addition by age cohort confirms precisely what we have said: all the jobs are going to old workers, who have zero wage bargaining leverage (as they just want to have a day to day paycheck). To wit: when broken down by age group, the total October increase shows that of the new jobs, 10.7% went to those aged 16-19 (source), 11.6% went to those aged 20-24 (source), a tiny 9.8% went to the prime agr group: 25-54 (source), and a massive 67.8% went to America's baby boomers: those aged 55 and over (source), and who refuse to leave the workforce and make way for others.

Visually, this is as follows:

But the most eye-opening chart is this one showing jobs in the 25-54 and 55 and over categories:

 

And one wonders why America's labor force has no bargaining power, and why average hourly wages are imploding, and why nobody can afford anything anymore...

Finally, all of the above excludes previous disclosures that the bulk of jobs created in the past 4 years is in the part-time job catergory.

 


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Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:08 | Link to Comment LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

Long on WalMart greetahz, bitchez.

 

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:11 | Link to Comment Mark Carney
Mark Carney's picture
Bank of Montreal customers not able to access accounts, system down

 

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/11/02/bank-of-montreal-customers-not-able...

 

 

 

Just keeps on happening doesn't it......

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:12 | Link to Comment HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

Catfood bitchez!

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:20 | Link to Comment TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Wow, did anybody catch Larry Silverstein on Bloomberg just now?  Twitch much, Larry?  OMG those eyes!!!

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:32 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

"Pull it."

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:48 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

This is the legacy of ZIRP.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:22 | Link to Comment economics9698
economics9698's picture

Good work Tyler.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:42 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Old American Dream:  Leave home at 19, marry at 23, wife stays home with kids, small home in suburbia, retire at 62.

New American Dream:  Live in Mom's basement 'till 32, marry at 33, finance house / cars, divorce at 35, unemployed 'till 50, foreclosed home, 11.7 year old clunker, re enter workforce at 58 stocking shelves, waiting for Mom's Will to take effect to pay off student loans.

Thanks Greenspan and Benocide, you pricks!

Financed livinig is causing social upheaval.  The "buy now, pay later" mantra has killed society.  Now we work for a living, not a life.

 

 

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:52 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

Savers are terrorists

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 23:04 | Link to Comment Muppet of the U...
Muppet of the Universe's picture

Can we kill old people yet?

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 23:56 | Link to Comment jballz
jballz's picture

 

yes muppet, you can and you should. Keep their scalps in the freezer though. There will soon be a bounty on them and they will pay well. 

Probably you shouldn't talk about it much until the bounty is formally announced though. 

 

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 07:23 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

I might be old...but at least I've got a job.

 

Sign the loan papers for your education at Harvard.....we might be able to use you in about 30 years or so.

 

Don't call us....we'll call you.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 09:41 | Link to Comment Marley
Marley's picture

"On a long enough timeline, every hate site will show itself",

Come on Tyler, falling ratings are hell but you at least can make a small effort to control your dogs.  Marla at least banned a few of the more blantant bigots.  Or are you just too busy helping the NE get back on it's feet to notice?

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 06:47 | Link to Comment onthesquare
onthesquare's picture

new meaning to "Seniors Discount"

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 07:52 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

We'd give a discount to young people.......but we already know those guys can't afford jack.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 15:30 | Link to Comment Mattress Money
Mattress Money's picture

My Lincoln is 11 years old i do not consider it a clunker.lol

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 15:30 | Link to Comment Mattress Money
Mattress Money's picture

My Lincoln is 11 years old i do not consider it a clunker.lol

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 20:03 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I would add to that, "Apply for disability, SNAP and any other assistance programs while in mom's basement".

We have sold our future to the devil. His name is "Government". He offered the classic promise, "Do whatever I say and I will give you all you want." So, we gave up huge parts of our income for guaranteed healthcare, retirement income, a free "Rascal" if we get fat and even more with Obamacare on the horizon. Only it isn't going to pay off. It's a sort of ponzi. Those of you who retired early in the ponzi did get the payoffs. The latter ones will watch the system fail.

I predict a generational war coming where the young will learn to hate and despise the old...who actually have more assets and income than they do but want still more so they can go to the casino's and live on the golf courses.

You silly collectivist dreamers!

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 22:48 | Link to Comment Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

Reading comprehension a weak point with you? Let me sum up: the point of this article is old people are staying in the work force or re entering the work force in large numbers. Not because they want to, because they have to. Company pensions disappeared when the companies went broke. Government pensions are hanging by a thread. They lost almost half their stock and mutual fund accounts in 2008 and pulled the money out just before the S&P took off and liquidated the rest trying to keep afloat. The value of their home equity and fixed income investments have fallen to practically nothing. They would much rather retire but can't because they have been robbed.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 03:44 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I read very well. The point of my post and the point that lies just beneath this article is a coming generational conflict. It did not have to be but we have sold our economic souls to the goverment devil. I am one who has been through mulitple layoffs, cashed out all my 401k's, taken pay cuts, helped others in my family and trying to defend myself from the impending economic disaster that is approaching. I am not a unsympathetic bystander. My mom still works because her variable annuity pays absolute zero thanks to Bernanke. I helped her buy a newer car even though I need to re-save for my retirement. I help both my kids as one has been laid off and the other actually went to a foreign country for work. My entire family outside of the retirees has been laid off in the last few years, including me, twice. To add insult to injury I got a huge tax penalty and bill for a loan against a 401k. I have paid enough taxes getting laid off and having to cash my government plans to fund my own retirement. However, the government now has all that money through various means.

So, do not think I am some smug commentator. I am in the middle of the economic storm. I am at the tail end of the boomers and most things go fully bankrupt about when I retire. I am resigned to it even as I lobby for changes now. I am telling you what is on the horizon.

I often attend and even occasionally speak at Tea Party or conservative groups. They are rather conservative and even somewhat libertarian leaning. However, bring up Social Security and Medicare reform and watch the immediate change in demeanor and discussion of the grayer members. They become raving Democrats in some cases. They don't even really trust anyone to reform the programs for the future generations. The government-statist trap has worked to perfection. It is so good that when the ponzi collapses it is most likely that a majority will clamor for yet MORE government intervention and control. We have sowed the wind and we are soon to reap the whirlwind.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 08:02 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

He can read AND think.....pretty impressive actually.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 09:12 | Link to Comment Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

First, let me say I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I do not blame the government entirely for our predictament. I will say it's bullshit that they tax us so much and friviously spend our money on nonsense. I blame multi-national CEO's for our troubles as well. They send jobs overseas and also import labor via the visa program to lower wages. There should be a concentrated effort to spend less on these bastards' products and support companies that produce items in this country using American citizens as their labor force.

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 14:38 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Bobbyrib, thans for your empathy. I am doing okay and holding my own...much better than a lot of my friends.

I understand your sentiments and I agree with a part of them. I have a son who works in China. He teaches English and is going to marry a nice Chinese gal. I have met their whole family and they are actually nice people. I have also seen the factories and industrial zones in some areas. It is impressive. I have seen new construction everywhere and it is impressive. They blast and build right through the old. I will not say more here on it, but I think China is about to go into a major fail mode itself. It is still an uncoordinated centrally planned state and they have badly overshot.

What China is doing is that they are doing capitalism better than us in many ways. I will tell you that I could probably start a business there in no time with fewer hassles than anywhere in America. I watched Rudi Guiliani on TV talking about how he had ten new small power generators built in NYC while he was there. He said he only did small ones because they fell underneath Federal regulations, especially EPA. Try to build large ones and the environmentalists and Feds will tie you up for ten to fiteen years. This will not happen in China. Also, China has created special enterprise zones with little or no taxes for companies. We now have the highest corporate income tax rates in the world...although France may compete for that title again.

So, if you are an American company who wants to build or rebuild a plant here in the USA and you are looking at rafts of regulations, hostile environmentalists with lawyers, the highest tax rates in the world as well as huge labor laws, hostile unions and a possible pseudo-socialist President...how interested do you become in other locations anywhere in the world? I mean just think it through rationally. There are often huge costs in transportation and tariffs using another country but it may still pay. Also, use just taxes. If America increases corporate tax rates including dividends from say 20% to 35% and you need to show a profit how will you make up the new taxes? One way is to lower your cost of production and move it overseas. You cannot change the tax rate and it is a zero sum game. Also, let's say you love your workers...as many actually do. If government doubles corporate tax rates over time what are the odds you will get a big raise or improved benefits? What are the odds you will get asked to take pay cuts and lose your benefits? Does this not make sense? Is it not eminently logical? Does it not make socialists look like morons?

Last, Bobby, consider property rights. Say you own a business. You put all your money and 401k cash outs and home equity loans in it. Do you not have a right to trade with anyone you want? It is your financial butt on the line, right?  Let's say you make ballcaps that sell at a market price of $15/each. If a U.S. company will make you ballcaps at $9 per cap, a Chinese company at $2.50 and a Greek company at $1.50 with a $4 tarrif, though, should you not be able to decide? Maybe some are better quality or more reliable delivery or long term friends. You will take all that into account. However, at the end of the day, do YOU not own that business? Assuming all other factors are equal and you buy the Chinese product your margin rises considerably. Can you not then give your current employees raises, pay back your loans, finally trade in your spouse's 15 year old car, donate more to your favorite charity and now sponsor that little league baseball team? What if you buy American and now don't make your overhead and have to close? Even the American factory will go out of business, right?

The bottom line is that if America is the best place to do business, make money and make products we will prosper. I believe all American companies and many foreign companies want to manufacture and sell here. That is what history shows. When we treat businesses like cows to be milked or even cattle to be slaughtered they will go elsewhere. This is socialism 101.

I do empathize with your desires. The question is how we get there. I posit liberty as the best choice.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 05:08 | Link to Comment Element
Element's picture

This is NOT Greece! ... oh ... wait ...

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 07:50 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Yeah.....not yet. Coming soon though.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 22:55 | Link to Comment Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Try telling an elderly person not to vote because imposing your will on the young when you will drop dead any day now is staggeringly unethical, not to mention the fact that they as a block vote for more handouts to be paid for by whogivesafuckcauseitaintme AKA the young and unborn. You will experience a tsunami of self-righteous rationally and ethically bankrupt horseshit and indignation at the very notion of prohibiting anyone (other than felons and aliens) from voting.

Not only do they vote, they vote more than any other age cohort. A society in which the elderly hold the most power over the future is inviting misery and extinction. It is sickening. And the fact that voting changes nothing is irrelevant because voters BELIEVE it does, they have no excuses.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 23:08 | Link to Comment mrpxsytin
mrpxsytin's picture

The elders of a community have traditionally been the holders of power in terms of decision making. So I do not see this as a problem.

However, the problem is that the 'elders' in our society are, on average, too ignorant and selfish, to understand that their job is to decide what is best for the community, and not just themselves. 

If any elderly people are reading this please consider this: your job is to see that the young people in your community have the best chance for success as is humanly possible. Don't forget that. 

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 03:51 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

However, the elders were generally not able to confiscate the work of the other and younger members. They were also not divided from them. Government divides us into various interest groups and makes us able to steal things from other groups with less power...as long as we empower the government.

Think of the division in this way. Your kids go to public school and you have to fight about the Pledge, prayer in school, school dress, freedom of speech, the vegan low calorie lunch menu and liberal indoctrination by the government union teachers. Then we fight about how much to pay the government noncompetitive workers. If we all went to our own schools there would be no conflict as we would pick what suits us best. So, we all have the same medical care and retirement plan and we have to fight about how it will work and who will pay for it. Elders are the biggest voting block bar none and they have the most similar interest in that 100% of them get Social Security and Medicare. No other group is so united.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 09:10 | Link to Comment GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Speaking of SS and Medicare, I'm amused (distressed?) by the political ads running here in Florida. Republicans are lambasting Democrats because Obamacare took $710+ billion from Medicare to fund Obamacare. Once upon a time Democrats were lambasting Republicans for trying to kill Medicare, back when Gingrich proposed plans that would allow Medicare to "wither on the vine". Being in the awkward position of philosophically being opposed to both SS and Medicare, yet of the age where I benefit from both, what do I do?

As a warning to those who have saved in IRAs or 401Ks, hoping to achieve lower tax rates upon retirement (as if that will ever willingly happen for anyone under 60) the truth is that SS is taxable once one's income passes a certain point. My wife still works, I get a decent amount in SS, and once I start taking money out of my IRA the tax bite suddenly starts climbing. Using a 2011 tax program, I calculated that my effective tax rate on IRA withdrawals can get up over 20%, depending on how much I withdraw. 'Tax deferred' apparently is yet another subterfuge meaning BOHICA.

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 14:01 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Good warnings and I agree. I think the tax rates will be higher in the future is we do not change course. What I like is how Democrats will criticize Republicans for the same things they themselves want to do. There were anti-Romney ads here about how he raised taxes. I had to laugh as that was part of Obama's platform. When you act like a Democrat and God knows Romney does very consistently...the Democrats still do not give you credit or love you. Also, the electorate tends to vote for the real thing which is what so many Republicans just cannot grasp.

Anyway, all government programs are going bankrupt as the nation goes bankrupt. To get lasting change we need political revival. IF we are going to be free then we have to reject government as the source of all things. IF we embrace government as the source of all things then we will have to pony up the real amounts of money it takes to fund the bloated, inefficent, uncaring machine to deliver the goods.

If you have ever been to China and not just the tourist attractions you would feel guilty having people far poorer than us fund our deficits, especially since we are likely to default or make them take a haircut one day.

I think the system will crash in my lifetime and maybe in the very near future. There is no will to take less from government, discipline government or pay for the things we actually get. We are just Greece on a larger scale and a few years behind. Congratulations, my fellow citizens.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 06:04 | Link to Comment jvetter713
jvetter713's picture

Somewhere in between living in mom's basement and unemployed until 50 you forgot:

Finally realize the time spent learning underwater basketweaving to get my shiny diploma was nothing more than a scam and a complete and utter waste of time.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 09:12 | Link to Comment GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Talking about underwater basketweaving is, considering the recent underwater activities in NJ and NY, a bit insensitive, isn't it? Not that I mind, since I left NJ a long time ago.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 12:48 | Link to Comment JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

The only thing you missed was the Anti-Depressant phase.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:13 | Link to Comment TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Larry reacted swiftly that fateful day.  He called the worlds' fastest demolition firm who were on site in 34 seconds and had the building ready to go (down) in three minutes....

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:16 | Link to Comment Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture

If one was rigged, they ALL were rigged. Murder and lies brought to you by the US Government and a bunch of asshole bankers.

Paybacks would be REAL nice.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:54 | Link to Comment flacon
flacon's picture

Hey! Easy there. He was just doing "god's work". 

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 08:06 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Pretty sure we could fix all this if we could just kill that lone guy that junked him.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:40 | Link to Comment Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Well, when you are a central figure in one of the biggest conspiracies of our time, and also just happened to have profited massively from it...even if you have a tiny little conscience, it starts to get the better of you.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:48 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Conscience, or merely massive fear of discovery?

You'd think he'd be hiding out with Corzine, Lay and the rest of the gang...

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:58 | Link to Comment Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Cuz even the average apathetic monkey, were they to know the truth, would fucking rip the eyes out of their sockets if they surfaced in public eyes in a world where truth exists.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 15:29 | Link to Comment harami
harami's picture

In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 20:54 | Link to Comment rambo1028
rambo1028's picture

"Truth is treason in the empire of lies." Ron Paul

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 09:13 | Link to Comment GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

In a time of universal governmental deceit, telling the truth is a terrorist act.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:15 | Link to Comment Stock Tips Inve...
Stock Tips Investment's picture

This phenomenon is happening in many countries. Apparently, companies prefer to hire people with more experience, because of the widespread belief that hard times ahead (even more). Consequently, people with more experience, might be better able to deal with this period.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 15:31 | Link to Comment boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

You kids amaze me.

YOU GUYS are the only thing that is "our" (baby boomers) fault.

So, you want us to quit work and give our jobs to you.

While our retirements are cut in half, and....AND you don't want us to get the Soc. Sec. $$ we have been paying into since we were 15!!!

NICE

Anything else we can get you underachieving, spoiled brats?

Your ELECTED OFFICIALS have been spending your "borrowed" money (you DO want your school loans forgiven, don't you?) NOT your parents.

You know, the same clowns you will put BACK in office next week!

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 15:43 | Link to Comment WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

They can't help it. They were sexually tranmitted.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 17:31 | Link to Comment TheKinski
TheKinski's picture

And what is the median age of our elected officials?

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 02:39 | Link to Comment boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

THAT is the only blame I accept....to which I refered.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 08:33 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

Remind me of what age demographic votes the most?  Fuck off Booger.  Your only making a fool of yourself here with notions of how the ponzi is everyone else's fault and needs to continue just a wee bit longer so you can cash out.  THAT sir is definition of spoiled, or entitled, whatever you prefer to call it.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 22:30 | Link to Comment TitleZ
TitleZ's picture

With all due respect, Old Man Booger, your perspective amazes ME.  Collecting the Soc. Sec. entitlements that you have been promised will only be possible if my generation can find work and begin to pay into the system.  I'm 32.  I will also have been paying into the system since 15, but it likely won't be there for me when I am your age.  So while you lecture us for being lazy, we can easy point the finger at your generation for screwing the pooch without any regard for how it will affect succeeding generations.  

NICE

Seems like the only way forward is for ALL of us to get used to the idea that we may end up with somthing less than what we expected.  For you to get all of your entitlements, my generation will need to sacrifice all of ours.  Where is the shared responsibility in that?

The silver lining in this giant, flaming bag of shit we call the current state of fiscal affairs is that maybe some of us youngins will not jump into the credit-fueled spending orgy that has taken root over the past few decades.  I'm preparing to fund my own retirement.  I'm going to pay my law school bill within the standard 10 year plan.  My wife and I will not be hyper-consumers like our parents.  All of this requires us to make sacrifices now for a better tomorrow.  Then maybe, just maybe, we will be able to pass the torch on to our children before we need to work into decrepitude.

 

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 23:15 | Link to Comment Bomp
Bomp's picture

Thank you. Well said. I too, as a 31 year old, will pay off my own med school debt, have funded my own retirement, and have no illusions of ever getting a dime from the farce that is Social Security.  Its called delayed gratification. Buying now and paying later isn't gonna work for much longer... so I'll just not start.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 08:30 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

Nice attempt.  Really.  But wasted effort.  Booger responded with the typical "Me" answer.  THAT is the hallmark of the BBoom gen.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 09:23 | Link to Comment GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

When the boomers were younger - I'm a boomer - there were memes going around like 'never trust anyone over 30. Movies, too, with pre-FEMA camps for the over-30 crowd. The worm has changed course. I personally was never of that mindset, having often felt that boomers (especially the college graduates, like I am) were mostly spoiled. I used to jokingly tell my father, a member of the so-called 'greatest generation', that it was his generation's fault, really. Having survived the Depression and WW II, they wanted their children, the boomers, to have a better life. The end result was the 'Me' generation of boomers, a crowd that never really reached emotional maturity. Seriously, have Clinton, Bush II and Obama ever acted as mature adults?

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 09:38 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

I myself am on the edge of the Boomer/Gen X transition.  Every generation surely has it's ME components.  I think the mechanism is different though.  Gen X and Y and so on all had different socio-economic drivers.  What chaffs my ass is smart folks who don't stop to think about the they and world shape generation after generation.

Most people arguable just want thier kids to have a good life.  They want to leave them something.  But wind up fighting the "times" and a system that is simply reaching it's point of exhaustion (the necessary inverse required to continue deriving yield is a rat race accelerating into oblivion with myraid social effects on subsequent generations).

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 22:36 | Link to Comment mrpxsytin
mrpxsytin's picture

Senicide. Coming to a town near you. 

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 23:12 | Link to Comment Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Go back to bed old man. Your generation lived the most extravagant lie in human history and to accept that would literally break your comfortably senile mind. I don't hope you die, I hope you die quickly, before you can do any more damage to a world which does not belong to you and never did. How many elections did you abstain from because both candidates were going to sell future generations into debt slavery to finance your beloved government spending. Show me when the government shrank on a YoY basis during your lifetime, or unfunded liabilities for that matter. You didn't resist these changes, you crusaded for them. After 55 years it defies credulity to think all this is merely a coincidence which happened to coincide with your lifetime. Nope. We did not get here by accident, whether through action or inaction, your generation and the one before it and the one since have so thoroughly eviscerated this country that frankly I am ashamed to be a citizen (by the way, thanks for the rules which make emigration so goddamn difficult, telling us 'ingrates' to leave is sheer hypocrisy, it wasn't always this way, maybe it's the tooth-fairy's fault).

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 03:03 | Link to Comment boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Put another way,

I worked 2 jobs to pay my debt.

Anyone who spent beyond their means NEEDS to continue to work, so YOU don't have to pay their debt.

Any venom directed at an entire generation seems .......childish.

Doctors and lawyers? Really?

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 08:38 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

Damn your an idiot.  Have no idea of the mechanics of debt? No history of what has been occurring? No memory of bubble after bubble?  No understanding of where this is leading?  Trouble with math?  Do you actually READ anything on this site?

Seems to me the generation venom is flowing pretty strong from your parasitic fangs.

 

 

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 08:43 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Just better hope he sticks with the fangs and doesn't pull out the club.

 

If he whips out something that looks long and hard.....run like hell.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 08:52 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

Does medicade cover viagra?

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 09:41 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

LOL....it's just a matter of time now.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 17:10 | Link to Comment TitleZ
TitleZ's picture

Booger,

I can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with you that directing venom at an entire generation is childish. You speak of us as "underachieving spoiled brats." All I'm saying is that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. All I have to do is click on the news every day if I want to be reminded that we are in tough times economically, and whether it was Democrats' fault or Republicans' fault it doesn't matter. The policy decisions that got us here were made by people much older than me. I just think that what this country needs is some honest to goodness leadership and I'm frustrated that there doesn't seem to be much of that coming from the elders. Seriously, I don't want you to stop working and hand over your jobs to us. But don't think for a second that the status quo will continue without some pretty hungry and bent out o shape young people nipping at your heels. It's not like we don't want to work. Either right the ship or get the hell out of the way.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 08:34 | Link to Comment johnnynaps
johnnynaps's picture

Our elected officials? What fucking planet are you from? Last time I looked, the average age of our "elected" officials was like 55!!!

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 08:45 | Link to Comment northerngirl
northerngirl's picture

Until we come to an agreement that Government programs do not work, the arguing over, (SS), who will get what and when is equivalent to beating a dead horse.   

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 15:45 | Link to Comment dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

maybe all the airborne abestos is finally getting to him

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 23:52 | Link to Comment vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

All bullish. Here's my Krugman Disconnect amateur hour cursorily thrown up deconstruction on his latest inane op-ed piece:

http://vastdom.blogspot.com

 

Enjoy bitchez.

THIS YEAR JUST SAY NO TO VOTING

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 23:06 | Link to Comment Alpo for Granny
Alpo for Granny's picture

Dogfood Bitchez!

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:55 | Link to Comment alangreedspank
alangreedspank's picture

Mark Carney, lol.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:57 | Link to Comment alangreedspank
alangreedspank's picture

He said he went to the BMO branch and the tellers told him he could only withdraw $100. Calls to the bank went unanswered, he said.

Sounds like someone is afraid of a bank run...

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:21 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

If even a miniscule portion of depositors went in to take cash out they would understand how very little currency there is in the system.

pods

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:37 | Link to Comment TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

The helicopter has landed and delivered some fresh notes.  Then next problem was, the "ink wasnT dry."  Several BMO customers reported "damp ink" on the newly printed notes.

 

The outage began around 10:30 a.m. ET and customers were able to regain access just before 1 p.m.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/bank-of-montreal-reports-technical-proble...

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 15:26 | Link to Comment andyupnorth
andyupnorth's picture

BMO servers are up and running now.  No big deal.

A big deal would be a real bank run, not a downed server for a couple of hours.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:12 | Link to Comment no taste
no taste's picture

Since jet fuel prices went up, Blankfein stopped flying his jets to China to have them washed.  Now he uses a bunch of old people from New Jersey.

http://howstupidare.blogspot.com/2012/10/how-stupid-are-tv-networks.html

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 16:03 | Link to Comment SILVERGEDDON
SILVERGEDDON's picture

Fucktards R U.

Let's examine the folks who still NEED to work for a living.

People whose retirement savings vaporized in the market melt down after AIG and Lehman Brothers tanked the economy, people who burnt through savings trying to wait out the recession and keep their homes, people who have been career veterans for decades getting laid off in droves, and people whose employers pulled the big BK and absolved themselves of pension obligations to the very individuals that made the company a success to begin with.

Those are the people who are having to keep working for a living. Why ? Because the biggest theft of money from the pockets of Joe Average in history went down. Who the fuck is responsible for that ? We all know - and yet, these motherfuckers are still running the show. No arrests, no trials, no justiuce, and the theft goes on.

Government / Wall Street / Big Banking, all on board for the hostile takeover, rape, pillage, and plunder of America.

And, you pen an article telling youth to turn against older workers.

You fucking troll for the Powers That Be.

Turn the peons against each other. Divide and conquer. Red versus Blue. Black versus White. Young versus Old.

Well, fuck you, asshole.

How about the People versus the Psychotic Control Freaks ?

Go back to your masters, you pathetic piece of shit, chew on the bone they throw you, while your master fucks you up the ass, and don't forget to say thank you.

Bitchez of the world, extend the vertical finger in this jerk off's general direction. 

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 21:00 | Link to Comment rambo1028
rambo1028's picture

Bravo! +10,000 ...for a group of people who seem pretty awake it's hard to believe so many are oblivious to the divide and conquer strategy that is before us....

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 22:35 | Link to Comment Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

Well said.  The amount of anti-boomer sentiment on ZH is an interesting phenomonon. Someone seems to have a great interest in turning us all against eachother.  Calling them "fucktards" is letting them off too easy. 

 

"old workers, who have zero wage bargaining leverage (as they just want to have a day to day paycheck"

Right, as if there are no younger people who want a "day to day" paycheck.  There are millions Americans of all ages who would like any paycheck they can get.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 22:54 | Link to Comment mrpxsytin
mrpxsytin's picture

You make a good point but be open to the views of the young people.

I'm 26 with a baby on the way (December). I'm watching the central bankers (Baby boomers), politicians (baby boomers), and finance chiefs (baby boomers) pumping trillions of tokens in to the system just to prop up the 'savings' of the other baby boomers. We on ZH are aware that the S&P500 is a measure of the retirement savings of the bulk of the boomers. So when they pump trillions in to the system it is ending up in those companies which is keeping the retirement funds looking 'rosy' (I stress the word 'looking').

However, these monetary stimulus packages do come at a cost. And that cost is the withdrawal of capital and the drop in competitiveness of productive industries and education industries that will offer a life for the young people. The current economic policies are literally robbing the young people to pay for the old people. And these policies are being enacted by baby boomers! Can you blame us young people for feeling upset about that? Where is our say in this? 

Unless the old generation makes way for the young, the young will take it by force. And the old people should be wise enough to see this. But the young must also be considerate enough to see their old people live their lives to the full. We must all work together. Boomers, the young people are facing a future with no dreams, you had a dream, and some of you may have even managed t live that dream for a time. Us young people don't even have the dream.  

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 23:28 | Link to Comment RSBriggs
RSBriggs's picture

What gives you the idea that the trillions of tokens being pumped into the system are being used to prop up the savings of the boomers?  Unless you're counting the billions of dollars of bonuses going to Wall Street bankers, you're mistaken.

"The current economic policies are literally robbing the young people to pay for the old people.".   Exactly wrong - the current economic policies are robbing the old people to give to freeloaders, welfare and O'Phone recipients, and social security disability abusers.

I've paid in over $380,000 to social security over the last 40+ years that I've been working, and I still have 6 years to go before I can start drawing my $1500 per month social security.  Do the numbers - I'm NEVER going to be able to get out what I put into the system, much less what I might have gotten if I had the opportunity to invest that money at some moderate rate of return (say, 3%) over those last 40 years.

Young person, the majority of boomers have had their life savings and property stolen from them over the last few years and most of us are facing a future with zero dreams other than not subsisting on dog food for however long we manage to continue to live.   Sure, I'll step aside - how are you at writing UNIX device drivers?  Doing system level work in several assembly languages?  Can you write a thread-safe shared library for a multi-user operating system from scratch?  Do kernel hacking in 'C'?  Do embedded programming? Get back to me when you can do these things (since they're part of my job description) - my employer is DESPERATE for ANYONE with this mix of skills - I can probably get you 70-80k as a starting salary as my assistant.  Oh - at least 15 years experience and a proven background required, however. 

You'll also need to pass a logic / aptitude test that many so-called programmers (usually web developers) look at and simply get up and walk away from without even answering any questions on.  (Question # 1 - Two trains 100 miles apart are headed towards each other - one going 60 mph and the other going 40 mph.  How many minutes elapse before they collide head-on?)  Typical comments - "What kind of fucking question is that supposed to be?"  "What's that got to do with programming?"  "I'd program that as a web page to answer the question." 

You are missing a point here - EVERYONE has had their future stolen from them, young, old, black, white, it makes no difference.  Don't fall into the mind and class warfare games being played by TPTB - EVERYONE is being stolen from...  

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 23:46 | Link to Comment mrpxsytin
mrpxsytin's picture

Yes you are right. You and millions of others have paid in to superannuation funds for the bulk of your lives. But those funds have been hypothecated, and some of those funds were already hypothecated when they were paid to you. The system that enabled the baby boomers to develop was built upon debt. And as we know, debt is a promise to pay in the future. 

Well did you, or I make those promises? I can certainly tell you that those promises were not made with the blessings of my generation. We were not even born yet! But now, when the time to pay up is here, the boomers don't want to foot the bill. Why should us young people pay this bill? 

Your life savings and property have not been stolen. You are simply being made to pay the bill that you have been promising to pay for the last 40 or so years. I'm not being hostile here. I'm simply telling you how the young people feel. We missed the party, but now we've got to still clean up the mess.

And don't get me wrong. There's plenty of us who will slip the gloves on and start plunging out the toilet bowls. But you can't blame us for grumbling while we do it! 

Further to your point about the desperate need for competent programmers. This is a case in point for my argument. Are you not concerned, as a community elder, that there are not enough young people to fill the gaps in the vital sector of our society? Do you think that this is just a coincidence? 

I attend university. Yesterday I calculated the per capita spend on each student in terms of Gold (Oz). It has HALVED in the last 10 years. The money is being withdrawn from the very education system that should be training the youngsters to takeover. 

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 00:09 | Link to Comment oddball
oddball's picture

+1.

 

What about the point of the boomers in power?  Seems you/we are being cannibalized by your/our very own demographics.

 

It would be nice to see the boomers put their foot down and stop paying taxes.  Also why not pass your skills on?  Oh that 15 year thing.  Seems to be a barrier to entry. 

 

 

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 03:17 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

The problem is that the boomers...like me split down the middle. About half love government and programs and want "theirs". The other half are conservative or libertarian. The generational war that is forming is an aliiance of preboomers like my parents who ally with the lefties and refuse reform and the younger who are starting to ally with the libertarian wing. Frankly, it is most likely that statism-colliectivism will win out as it seduces then wrecks a country like a bad drug addiction.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 12:32 | Link to Comment oddball
oddball's picture

It would be nice if more of the younger fit your description, but many too, are seduced by big gov.  Thanks for the response.

 

 

 

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 01:29 | Link to Comment SmackDaddy
SmackDaddy's picture

"I've paid in over $380,000 to social security over the last 40+"

That's mathematically impossible so shut the fuck up....

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 03:01 | Link to Comment RSBriggs
RSBriggs's picture

Oh really?  Maybe you'd like to tell that to the social security administration, who take about 13k per year from me.  And yes, I was out on my own - working for a fucking living - started out doing manual farm labor at age 14, had my own place and was married at 17.  Supported my own family along with an ailing grandmother.  Put three kids through college.  I'm 60, meaning I've been working and paying taxes for 46 years now.

Being a self employed consultant I pay 10.4% to FICA, then another 3% towards medicare, another 35% Federal income taxes, 10% state income taxes on top of that - along with property taxes, vehicle taxes, and miscellaneous county and city "local" taxes.

You whiners can kiss my ass....

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 07:40 | Link to Comment BrerRabbit
BrerRabbit's picture

Employment is a competitive marketplace. These younguns are expecting to get the same rates as I get with 40 years experience. I work for the going rate, whatever it is at the time. They can't compete unless they underbid appropiately.

Competition Bitchez.

Welcome to the real world.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 09:24 | Link to Comment Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

poor baby:(

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 23:28 | Link to Comment Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Your being a moron was not the result of any divide and conquer strategy by some nefarious shadowy cabal of elites. Paid shill or just ignorant/malicious, it's a toss-up.

You need to think long and hard about the age cohorts under whose watch and guard this "hostile takeover" occurred, and ask yourself exactly what did they do to prevent, mitigate, combat, and undo it. You should also consider the fact that to this day most of them continue to support by multiple means the very persons, institutions, and forces which constitute your Bogeyman.

Your failure or refusal to recognize their sins and pronounce their guilt does not disprove the existence of either.

The division was accomplished long before I was born, the conquering too. And you're telling me it's unfair to cast blame and pass judgment on the complacent and complicit? No thank you, Mr. Moral Coward.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 03:13 | Link to Comment RSBriggs
RSBriggs's picture

"The division was accomplished long before I was born, the conquering too. And you're telling me it's unfair to cast blame and pass judgment on the complacent and complicit? No thank you, Mr. Moral Coward."

And what, pray tell, have you accomplished with your revolution?  What difference have you personally made to change the situation?  What street corner do you stand on preaching the true way to financial narvana?  How many books or magazine articles have you personally published?  

You accuse me of doing nothing - Well, I put three kids through college, cash.  Did two tours in Vietnam.  Can you say the same?  How is your personal fight against the powers that be coming along?   Won any major victories yet, or are you just going to wallow around in self-righteousness accusing others of having done nothing?  What have you undone. mitigated, combatted?  Nothing you say?  Fuck you.  You're probably a Ron Paultard, who is planning to punish the system by NOT VOTING.  THERE!  THAT'LL SHOW THEM!!  I supported Ron Paul, but he didn't get the nomination.   Get over it.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 02:56 | Link to Comment boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

They're hopeless.

They know they are powerless to fix the REAL problem, so it's easier to blame their parents.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 08:50 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

There you go again booger. Keep beating that "ME" drum.  Your the man and they are just children.  Pound that chest like an Ape (but not too hard... we wouldn't want you to stroke out of something... there might be a few more SS checks coming and we would hate for you to miss them).

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 08:48 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

It shows real tension under the surface.  Not everyone here though interprets the article as a battle cry.  Rather the reality you point out above.  That is the real truth.  And the fact there have been no major arrests or changes tells me everything I need to know.

But, just because some of us understand doesn't mean that the divide is not real.  The older generation on average has the worst case of normalcy bias.  A piss poor understanding at best of what has really occured and progessively younger generations have been formed as a socio-economic byproduct of the path we have been on.  There are answers for all of this if anyone even cares to look.  And plenty of blame to go around.

 

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:08 | Link to Comment homersimpson
homersimpson's picture

Nothing like living hand to mouth every day because the most of the baby boomers forgot what the words "save for the future" mean..

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:12 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Worse. They got conned. Many tried to save and trusted their "financial advisors."

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:18 | Link to Comment homersimpson
homersimpson's picture

Cmon.. you gotta admit though.. a lot of these spend-happy baby boomers spent and spent and spent with little to nothing to show for it other than large amounts of debt on stuff they no longer own.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:31 | Link to Comment Louie the Dog
Louie the Dog's picture

I don't owe shit, but if I want to keep working after 66 I'll keep working.  That's my choice.  It's not my fault if you are so unprepared for the workforce that some old lady beats you out for a job at McDonalds.  

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:42 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

I was watching something on tv and the discussion got around to hookers. One guy was making the point that if you see a hooker you should find an older one. The older ones have developed more skill with technique.

Admittedly the young ones are hotter, but does anyone want teeth run along the shaft like a cheese grater?

 

 

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:49 | Link to Comment Manthong
Manthong's picture

Speaking of older workers and hookers..

My grandfather threaded pipe for a fire sprinkler company until he was 88..

If it wasn’t for the hookers, I would have had a nice inheritance.

Oh well, at least I got his genes.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:18 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Manthong

Hookers, pipefitters and Grandpa's "genes" sounds like a Milton Berle skit.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:43 | Link to Comment Manthong
Manthong's picture

He left me the genes, but I had to thoroughly wash them because of all the times he cleaned out his pipes.

 

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:53 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Admittedly the young ones are hotter, but does anyone want teeth run along the shaft like a cheese grater?

Well, yeah.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:26 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Uncle Remus

I see you have never gotten brush burn from fucking too hard too long? Or the seemingly never ending pain from a daily grating.

As Jack Warden once said in So Fine

Jack: [Lira is singing an aria while having sex with Bobby] I used to be able to fuck like that.


Fri, 11/02/2012 - 16:44 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

moderation...

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:43 | Link to Comment legorf
legorf's picture

Et vlan dans les dents Homer

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:35 | Link to Comment Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

Homer Simpson - You add nothing to the conversation other than pointing out you are a dick!

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 17:37 | Link to Comment dugorama
dugorama's picture

actually, no.  they could be like my momma who does have a nice pile of assets.  sadly she now earns something less than 0.5% on them.  thank god she has no debt.  but instead of living on the interest as we had all planned for her, she's eating the seed corn, so to speak.  should she live a really long time, she'll run out of $.  and then i guess move in with me?  just as i try to retire?  yes, i have savings, investments, etc.  but the only thing that might do me any good would be a farm.  'cept I'm already too old and beat up to farm.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 21:50 | Link to Comment ZeroAvatar
ZeroAvatar's picture

Boomers were having their incomes stolen through inflation the same as you are today.  It's hard to get ahead when your paycheck taxes equal about 40% of your income, then you pay sales taxes, property taxes, license fees, you name it. What was left was then stolen through inflation.

 

Boomers didn't have it any easier than today's folks.  They struggled to make ends meet, chased pussy, got drunk, bought houses, dreamed of better lives, wanted better things for their kids, and so forth. 

 

Articles like this are written by imbeciles.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:20 | Link to Comment slackrabbit
slackrabbit's picture

many also didn't save and just expected the bill would be passed to someone else.......younger.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:47 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

slackrabbit

Hey now bunky, do you realize that many factory workers barely made minimum wage? Yet they managed to buy homes, cars, and put the kids through college.

That didn't leave much room for savings.

And minimum wage was pretty shitty way back when.

Those you refer too are a subset of american workers, the upper middle class.

Working folks have always just gotten buy the best they could. That meant nothing fancy, used cars and used houses.

Culturally you may wish to examine how the old Swedes and Italians stretched their money. I imagine any of those strong traditional cultures had the same values which their children abandonded.


Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:27 | Link to Comment Tippoo Sultan
Tippoo Sultan's picture

True enough, as far as it goes: you refer to the self-reliant generation who begat the "Boomer" wave. Baby Boomers were, in fact, the "yuppies" of the late '70s and throughout the '80s. They went on, during the decade of the '90s, to send JDSU into the mid-three digits, and "invested" in Cramer's "Winners of the New World."

When that portion of dad's Inherited estate went bust, the residue was "invested," during the first decade of the Millenium, in real estate -- both "trading-up" and second homes.

Now, with that trade also having gone bust, and no more of father's estate upon which to draw, our 30-year-old yuppie of 1985, now a seasoned, greying ( only but a dash at the temples ) and Botoxed -- but none the wiser -- 57-year-old "Boomer" faces, rather unexpectedly, precisely what his father did, and his father before him: working his entire life.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:30 | Link to Comment Tortuga
Tortuga's picture

LMAOROTF. You would not know truth if it busted you upside the head. Kool aid drinker.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 09:06 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

I think the votes idicate the winner here.  Your problem was being "binary."  You are right that the story above does not apply to all - not even the majority... BUT, why is it is the stereotype?  Well, because a good chunk of the middle class played that game.  Mostly boomers, but some younger generations got in on the act too... mostly later on with the housing bubble.  THAT was the kool aid.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 15:30 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

"I imagine any of those strong traditional cultures had the same values which their children abandonded."

I'm fortunate that my current wife is from a more traditional culture...  Imagine, "traditional" meaning to live within one's means (be more sustainable)!

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:23 | Link to Comment toady
toady's picture

My grandmothers financial advisor put most of her money into Iraqi fertilizer companies (so he said) right before bush one did gulf war 1. She never authorized the move, and I don't think the move was really made, the guy just corzined it.

My moms financial advisor moved most of her money into financials, mostly Lehman, in 2007, without her authorization.

What will your financial advisor do without your authorization?

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:33 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

If he actually did anything improper or legally recognizable, then hire an attorney... 

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:55 | Link to Comment hapless
hapless's picture

So say your mom and grandma - my bet is the dumb broads blew it all on tupperware and mood rings.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 15:25 | Link to Comment LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

silk shirts and new medallions for Rodrigo the pool boy, too.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 20:09 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Mood rings?
One fellow in college found out what my mood ring was tellin' him when he pissed me off and I cold cocked him with a left jab to his nose.  He and my ring were all bright red, his nose bleeding. I musta been mad.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 23:44 | Link to Comment Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

You're asking me to believe that among two entire generations of Americans, the percentage who did NOT fall for the con is perhaps 1? I'm waiting for you to tell me to look up the definition of "gullible" in the dictionary. No harm, no foul, right?

Think about the logical implications of this proposition, namely the fact that some 99% of your fellow citizens are literally too stupid to live and routinely piss their pants in excitement over the loss (I'd call it ceding or surrender) of rights and liberties, wealth, jobs, and a future.

And you want me to sympathize for these same people who go nuts to further impose their by-definition idiotic beliefs on me at every opportunity? That is, sympathize for braindead sociopaths?

You can't have it both ways. Either you're intelligent and accountable for your actions or moronic and unaccountable. Taxpayers, gov employees, voters, et al have made their choice. Sympathy for these people? Are you insane?

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 00:13 | Link to Comment mrpxsytin
mrpxsytin's picture

I was going to say. The real divide (as it has always been) is between the intelligence and the ignorant (or stupid). And time and time again the intelligence gets the better of the ignorant (apart from your occasional guillotine party, or other such nonsense). 

The problem is that our intelligent people have not been tempered by morality. Sociopaths, psychopaths, call them what you will. The fact is that they are an intelligent bunch of people who have NOT learnt to act morally. 

The story of King Ashoka is a fantastic example of how an intelligent man (once a 'sociopath') became one of the most benevolent rulers ever known. We may see this happen with some of our current rulers. OR we may see another guillotine party. OR a dark age... 

but getting back to the age divide. Old and young are suffering. The old are feeling the pain of having their delusions shattered and the young are feeling the pain of a lack of economic future. A simple solution is for the old to train the young to replace them ASAP. Then teach the young morals so that they look after their elders. 

If your an old person complaining of the rising crime rate and total lack of respect for elders, then use your brain to work out why this is happening and make an effort to stop it! When a young man with a family has no job, he IS going to steal from an old person. This is reality. 

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 09:14 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

That is the simple truth.  It boils down to this.  Many thinking they were doing the right thing for thier kids too... having something to leave them.  They did not see the ponzi for what it was until it was too late.  Neither did most of us really.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:14 | Link to Comment CommunityStandard
CommunityStandard's picture

Except when your savings are made worthless by years of failed economic policies.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:52 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

CommunityStandard

I'm sick of the victim mentallity.

Savings are made worthless by people not paying attention.

Anyone with a lick of common sense understands enough to contrast their current economic situation with ongoing trends.

Any damn fool purchasing anything can tell when prices are rising and how much and act more conservatively with their money.

You had assholes who want to be "Nigger Rich" all flash and no substance. Buying big homes, flashy cars, tit jobs and golf club memberships all on credit they knew to be beyond their means.

Admittedly there were some who were screwed, but overall they were not the majority.

The mouthier losers got all the press because in the end Andy Warhol was correct on that fifteen minute thing.


Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:28 | Link to Comment Tortuga
Tortuga's picture

So, ur argument is so vapid you through out the "anyone with common sense" canard.

Hah! Lame.

So from me, I give you a +.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:54 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

I thought it was because prices keep going up...

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:29 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Uncle Remus

Prices go up because the dollar has less value.

Prices go up now because everyone knows they can squeeze the little guy and he has to suffer.


Fri, 11/02/2012 - 16:46 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Gawd I hope a game warden doesn't come by....

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:57 | Link to Comment hapless
hapless's picture

pfft.  Ever heard of selling short?

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 16:31 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Which is all based on a Ponzi foundation (perpetual growth on a finite planet).  And we didn't see it coming! <sarc>

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:16 | Link to Comment Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

ZIRP means you're burning your savings, not living off the interest - no matter how much one has saved.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 16:34 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Is there any such model in nature that supports this kind of thing, living off of "interest?"  When growth stops (which it has), then the entire premise of money doing work is pretty much out the window... people will have to (once they wrestle away the means of doing work from the robots [which are controlled by TPTB]) actually work, spend energy, to get something...

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:24 | Link to Comment alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Given the evidence on display, that is a rather amazing comment.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:24 | Link to Comment Tortuga
Tortuga's picture

Ah yes, "the evidence on display" and that would be?

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:24 | Link to Comment Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

They had the world in their hand flushed it away being idealistic AND greedy. After wwii they had the strongest country on the planet for EVERYTHING. They gut the country for quick profits, offshore everything because of course everyone can work office jobs, have weekends off to watch football and take the 12 passagener military SUV to the mall on the weekends.

Lets not forget they get the socialized healthcare Medicare, fuck everyone else, get fucking job with benefits. No benefits? Well you should've gone to college! Oh you have your masters, well I got my BA working part time and walked right into a job. Sucks to be you with your debt, YOUR parents should've saved.

Yeah keep popping your Viagra you limp dick gimme gimme generation we're sick of fighting your wars and living in the wake of economic disparity left by your endless gourging.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:47 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Actually Boomers who are just now reaching retirement age will be the first generation to get less out of SS than they put in. You might want to direct your protestations to residents of your local cemetery instead.

 

On January 31, 1940, the first monthly retirement check was issued to Ida May Fuller of Ludlow, Vermont, in the amount of $22.54. Miss Fuller, a Legal Secretary, retired in November 1939. She started collecting benefits in January 1940 at age 65 and lived to be 100 years old, dying in 1975.

 

Ida May Fuller worked for three years under the Social Security program. The accumulated taxes on her salary during those three years was a total of $24.75. Her initial monthly check was $22.54. During her lifetime she collected a total of $22,888.92 in Social Security benefits.

 

http://www.ssa.gov/history/briefhistory3.html#idamay

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:51 | Link to Comment Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

They're already rolling in their graves of what their kids did to the country after they survived the depression, fought WWII and got us to the moon.

I'm not even touching the SS part. The Medicare shit is what I call out. They go on about how when THEY were kids the dr came to the house, if they had to go to the hospital they "found a way" to pay. Today, there's no reasonable way to cash pay any type of medical coverage. Everyone is an ER trip away from bankruptcy.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:55 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

The ball was dropped long before the Boomers came onto the playing field.

 

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:14 | Link to Comment Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

A ride in one of them ambu-lance costs about 2k on average. That's a month's salary before taxes if you're on the lower end of wages.

"I guess we're not eating this month honey."

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:27 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

It's called a ponzi.  

The FIFO (first in first out) make out like bandits.

Eventually the music stops.

It was all based upon compound growth. Our whole society was and is to this day.

Maybe they will be able to exponentially extract oil someday?  Not.

pods

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 09:20 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

+1.  Expand until expansion cannot continue.  Anyone here ever heard of diminishing returns?  Takes on a whole new meaning when expanding to a quality of life, energy, wages, taxes, government, etc. all at once.  A complex global system starving for "yield."

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 15:04 | Link to Comment TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

.

... we're sick of fighting your wars ...

Just one more war. You youngins just gotta fight only one more war...  coming soon to a "theater" near you.

And besides, GenY or GenX will start the war.  The war wonT "belong" to the Boomers.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 16:39 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

It was all just a matter of time... blaming others for the failure of the paradigm of perpetual growth on a finite planet.  Won't do you much good.  Take the lesson and learn, the future is before you (and, given your distaste for all that you mention, you should be happy to find that it WON'T continue- luck YOU!).  Or, you can stay bitter and hope that blame itself will be sufficient to support your needs...

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:38 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

As long as wealth is measured in dollars, there's no such thing as SAVING. The Boomers did what worked for them, which was participating in every bubble as it represented the ONLY successful strategy for getting ahead.

Like all bubbles, it worked, right up until it didn't.

You should focus your attention on the source of the problems rather than people's reaction to them.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:29 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

Absolutely.  This generational warfare is just another symptom of the compound growth ponzi.

Everyone younger gets less and less while more is extracted from them to pay for it and their FRNs buy less and less.

From SS, to medicare, to the FRN, everything is a ponzi.  They are all based upon exponential functions.

pods

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 14:44 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

The worst part about it is that social security now acts as a complete and total barrier to entry for anyone not remotely retirement age.  Moral Hazard.

If I'm collecting SS, then I can get by on a damn sight less than what you can if you're not receiving SS (especially when I'm living in a home that's paid for and I have no student loan debt)...  As a result, all things considered, wages have a ceiling for a long time to come...  so long as these supplemental payments are thrown in there for retirees who've gone back to work.  Total clusterfuck...  Moral Hazard.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 09:29 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

Moral hazard all around.  Works great for the divide and conquer program.  And as a smokescreen.  I have been saying for years that the financial mess would become sovereign, then political, then public.  The ultimate blame is being put on the people through the mechanism of moral hazard.  Meanwhile, the real perpetrators exit stage left.

Like PODS said, this is mathematic at it's core.  Within the confines of the current system - there being no good way out - we are destined to expand and then collapse.  Ironic that moral hazard is the common denominator here.  Fucking genius, but evil scheme that really, at it's lowest level just exploits human nature.  The most tragic part I think is that as we near the end, the scheme preys on hope instead of greed.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 16:42 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Amen!

Addicted to growth.  As they say, proper recognition of the problem is the first step to recovery...

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 16:41 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Amen!

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:10 | Link to Comment yabyum
yabyum's picture

Would you like extra fries with that happy meal? NOW get off my lawn you young punk.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:19 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

The economy will recover. With the amount of time spent at their early morning shifts as Egg McMuffin assemblers and their afternoon/evening shifts as Walmart greeters, many baby boomers will be forced to hire (under the table, of course) young college graduates to monitor their yards and yell, "hey you kids, get offa my lawn," for them.

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 13:56 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

WTF - isn't there an app for that?

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