This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Chart Of The Day: America's Geriatric Work F(a)rce
The traditional excuse apologists for America's collapsing labor force participation rate use every month is that due to "demographics" and retiring baby boomers, increasingly more old workers are no longer counted by the BLS and as a result, are skewing the labor force. That's where they leave it because digging into details is not really anyone's forte anymore. This would be great if it was true. It isn't.
A month ago in "55 And Under? No Job For You" we presented visually and quite simply that of the 3.3 million jobs "created" (updated for October's data), a gasp-inducing 3.8 million has gone to workers aged 55 and over, or the one cohort that according to conventional wisdom is retiring, and actively leaving the workforce. How can America's elderly workers account for more than the total? Simple: workers in the young (16-19) and prime (25-54) cohorts have cumulatively lost a whopping 1.3 million, with just the 25-54 age group losing 842,000 jobs (don't believe us: spot check it right here courtesy of the Fed).
In other words, America's edlerly are not only not in a rush to retire, they are reentering the workforce (thanks to the Chairman's genocidal savings policy which has just rendered the value of all future deposits worthless thanks to ZIRP), and in doing so preventing younger workers, in their prime years, from generating incremental jobs.
And nowhere is this more visible than in today's jobs report. On the surface, the US generated a whopping 413,000 jobs (after generating a massive 873,000 last month) according to the Household Survey in October. That's great, unfortunately breaking down this cumulative addition by age cohort confirms precisely what we have said: all the jobs are going to old workers, who have zero wage bargaining leverage (as they just want to have a day to day paycheck). To wit: when broken down by age group, the total October increase shows that of the new jobs, 10.7% went to those aged 16-19 (source), 11.6% went to those aged 20-24 (source), a tiny 9.8% went to the prime agr group: 25-54 (source), and a massive 67.8% went to America's baby boomers: those aged 55 and over (source), and who refuse to leave the workforce and make way for others.
Visually, this is as follows:
But the most eye-opening chart is this one showing jobs in the 25-54 and 55 and over categories:
And one wonders why America's labor force has no bargaining power, and why average hourly wages are imploding, and why nobody can afford anything anymore...
Finally, all of the above excludes previous disclosures that the bulk of jobs created in the past 4 years is in the part-time job catergory.
»
- 34111 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
When you get Corzined and Dicked, ya ain't got any retirement funds.
and people who think they still have retirement funds.....don't. its all just a matter of when you find out that you don't.
Nah, all pensions will be turned over to the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corp, which will then be funded by QE+++++.
The first of every month you'll get a check for exactly the amount you were supposed to, which you'll then use to buy a case of dog food.
The ENTIRE notion of "retirement" was a concoction to get LOTs of people to rally around TPTB. It was a freak of history, a mirage.
History tells us that the only "retirement" model is one that is voluntary or set by custom, usually entailing multi-generational efforts. The model that TPTB put forth divides families and pits one generation against the other: this distracts from the fact that TPTB don't actually contribute anything to the real needs of life.
I've got that one under my belt now. It is a hard one to swallow when you are socialized that it (a pension, SS) is "normal." We always had to take care of ourselves. It is hard for others as well, I do have compassion for it.
Dicked, Nixon
This is actually great news! It'll be that much easier to take down the Police State Geriatric and fat TSA/DHS agents once the revolution starts.
The local police force has undergone massive turnover. So much so that the average time in the force is under 5 years. What do I see? Lots and lots of overweight 20-somethings.
While old people are taking over many entry level jobs, they aren't jobs with retirement plans, as they'll start drawing much, much sooner than some kid.
Meanwhile, jobs that are seeing the unavoidable pension bomb, like the police force? Well, they are running off the old people in droves as it is the only variable they have control over in the game of kick the can.
Beware the finance dept that can print a list of the most expensive employees!
HOW CAN I SAVE WHEN ALCOHOL IS SO GODDAMN EXPENSIVE...
Plastic bucket still. Noice.
http://amazingstill.com/
They'll only need to push buttons and the drones will correct That attitude! (keep in mind that today's young are all being trained to work "screens" and, just like those "fearless/brave" pilots who drop bombs on people from thousands of feet, they'll have no real idea exactly what is happening on the terminal end of their actions.)
Don't blame the boomers. It isn't their fault they lack foresight, critical thinking skills and accountability.
Somebody else built that.
Prussians
And without ZERO we'd have NOTHING! ???
The grey on that chart is one or two years away from dissapearing.
Must be the Grecian Formula. It gradually reduces the gray so that no one can tell you're using it.
In other words, America's edlerly are not only not in a rush to retire, they are reentering the workforce (thanks to the Chairman's genocidal savings policy which has just rendered the value of all future deposits worthless thanks to ZIRP), and in doing so preventing younger workers, in their prime years, from generating incremental jobs.
Younger workers are probably practicing a fair amount of self-prevention too. Old people are more likely to actually have a work ethic and to have had some kind of job since they were kids. Once they finally leave the workforce for good...look out below.
Exactly. And the very reason my employer asked me to stay on another year. And why should anyone over 65 voluntarily go jobless with hyper inflation staring us in the face.
If you really aren't that into the whole idea of work, don't have much history with working and, like a washed up cougar, have a whole laundry list of requirements your potential employer/job must first meet to get you off the couch... you don't have any prime years.
I'm afraid this describes many Americans in their 20s.
Kudos, god of merchants, you hit it right on the money.
I think it's the over glamorization of celebrity and rich people lifestyles and attitudes that causes this. Not that it hasn't been happening for milennia, but now we have little devices constantly spouting propaganda and brainwash, and if you haven't trained yourself to ignore it all, you will be sucked in and believe the lie.
I got my first job making sandwiches at Subway at the end of high school. Subway had me working every single second, cutting, cleaning, maintaining, making sammies for the middle school catering and dealing with lunch hour rush... for minimum wage, 8-9 hour shifts without breaks and no sitting, and I was happy with it. Would go tutor at one of the local tutoring centers after the shift at Subway was done. Paid twice as much and I got to sit down and help kids learn math.
Peeps in their 20s are kind of lost. It's the curse of my generation - no one has solid goals for what they expect out of themselves and others in their lifetime, and most of them got useless and generic degrees while they partied their tits off. The idea of a profession is lost - the 20s folks only know how to do jobs now. And unfortunately that's what it takes for a well functioning society: professions.
I guess I'll offer a different perspective... I think what you're finding, in part, is not merely apathy or laziness or learned helplessness, but an innate desire not to enrich others at the expense of ourselves. I think the insight that many young people will not have the opportunities our parents or grandparents had to accumulate wealth or work in an environment we actually like is pretty troubling to us. The realization that we're simply working to enrich someone else leads us to a different response than pervious generations. A job, in and of itself, is no longer good enough. We desire more and the remainder of society is fighting us tooth and nail to keep the status quo. The entire incentivization for work and benefits from our labor are going to be changed... I think what you're seeing is as much about the wealth gap as anything else. Although, it's pretty convenient to dismiss young people as lazy [note: it helps boomers to justify working their entire lives, often times for table scraps].
Great post MachoMan, I agree with your perspective entirely too. It's a combination of the lack of professional mobility (in a chosen direction, as opposed to a forced one) and a want for more than just a job and meager pay. The notion of working solely to enrich someone else's life is contrary to the ideals of the 20s generation, and it is a group that also expects to be handed shit and have their hands held. It's also a more selfish generation and the technological social connectivity, alongside with Bernaysian-like marketing, makes one quite narcissistic and infantilized. I think the generation is also struggling to have a voice. When the concentration is put upon the individual and falsely promoted to be the chief voice, a sense of group goals and identity is lost. In the sea of "me"s, the "we" is drowned. As a collective, we have nothing to offer and nothing to aspire towards.
I guess, in the largest part, I have faith that we're the same all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world just like every other generation. I think people tend to overindulge their egos when they catapult one generation over another for their accomplishments. While I do agree that it is more fair to apportion credit to those who were called on to do something and succeed than those who are never called, the question remains... would another generation have behaved or performed differently in the same situation? I tend to lean towards answering this in the negative.
Which leads me to say, please do not engage in generation worship. It's largely a red herring. Very rarely, if ever, determined by the true will and consciousness of the generation. When you say that we have nothing to offer and nothing to aspire towards, I think you're selling us (and humanity) short or, alternatively, engaging in generation worship. The simple matter is that we probably don't have anything more or less to offer than any other generation. However, there may be some standouts... who do all the heavy lifting anyway... for each generation.
Eventually the chips will be down (mom kicks us out of the basement so to speak) and we'll get to venture into the real world to find our way. Please don't presume that we'll just go quietly into the night and find an overpass to sleep under. This would be... exceedingly rare in history... especially after the populace has had a taste of freedom for so long (or at least the perception of freedom, which is probably good enough). We won't be virtuous in any real sense of the word... we'll just be people without any choice but to move on... such is life.
what intelligent elders would blame the young people for being failures?
The elders handed their responsibility to train the young to big government. And big government has totally failed in that project. Now you blame the young people for being failures? YOU failed your young people.
I'm thinking that "work ethic" might not be all that that we believe it to be. Consider that it's almost all based on working for TPTB. If it's measured thusly then I would encourage the young folks to keep it up (hoping/encouraging them to work on lives AWAY from TPTB).
Don't worry, we can still define them out of the workforce. See, so much better.
Ah, Soylent Green here we come!
why should anyone be forced to do anything? The central planners are still trying to remove the word liberty from the serf's vocabulary I see.
Fuck you Bernanke!
My mother in law owned her own business since 1985,and she retired in 2009. Now she is looking for a part time job at 72. It comes down to teo things she doesn't like sitting around reading the obituaries, and she doesn't draw enough to be able to do some of the things she would like. So she is going back to work. In her circle a friends they all talk the same way.
Yep. In terms of culture, boomers defined themselves by their careers. Take away their career, and they don't know what to do. Many plan to work until they die simply because they want to. Though thanks to ZIRP, many have financial reasons too as well.
UR right of course, it's us boooooooooooooooooomer jooooooooooooooooos.
I had a dentist who was still practicing in his 80s.
I PLAN on working till I drop. Hopefully it'll be on my own farm...
Business has figured out that they don't have to offer medical insurance to those on Medicare and they work cheap.
Worked to death.
Perfect plan.
Drive wages down, continue to pay into a broken healthcare system and die early from nervous exhaustion, thereby not collecting that lifetime of social security and medicare benefits.
In my G_d fearing fair city, there is a notable increase in seniors re-entering the workforce AND starting fringe businesses just to keep the cat-food cans at bay.
Nice older lady at Rotary stood up today and said; "It's the Jews' fault."
FOUR MORE YEARS!
Oy vey.
Dog food is cheaper and more filling.
Buy 'Iams' ok? I work for P&G...
Cat food is higher in sodium, boomers like that.
But high-sodium Chinese food is higher in dog.
That was good man!
AND, according to another article on ZH today, it's the boooooooooooomer jooooooooooooooooos.
Going against history and nature is a rather poor plan.
Wealth is pretty much anchored to the extraction of natural resources (and the promise of future extraction). So, yeah, if we keep basing our "wealth" thusly we shouldn't be surprised that we all end up "poor."
Sign of the times, another $60k+ horse trailer pops up for sale on Craigslist (had someone in my hometown selling one for $65; I thought that this one couldn't be topped, until... the other day when I spotted one advertised, and this was out-of-state (violation of Craigslist posting rules), for $69k!
To my wife whom is from the Philippines, this is all pure insanity...
It will get worse now that Bernanke and the Fed devalued the dollar. Encouraged not to save they will have to work until they die.
In the past few years I have noticed that more and more of my mothers retired friends have had to go back to work. Practically all of them part time jobs. The information in this article confirms the validity of what I've been seeing. It's sad as hell.
When the majority of the world's population lives on the equivalent of $3 USD I'm not thinking that they (4+ billion of them) are crying over this "hardship."
Reality bites back... The moral of the story: BS should be worth ZERO (the BS of "The American Dream").
I think I'm going Japanese...
At least in America you still can get a job past 65, in Europe retirement is mandatory and most employers don't take on people who are older than 45 anyways.
Tell that to the 25-50% youth unemployment.
Actually, that's completely true.
If you are 45 or older, you will be fired and replaced with a 27-to-40 year old, whose salary will be about 50% less, and who will get to link temporary contracts to eliminate his/her negotiating ability.
If you are 45 or older, you cling desperately to your job and accept any cuts, because if you're fired, you will NEVER work again.
If you are under 27, the average job offer requires a university degree,possibly a master's degree, two languages, and the contract is not a work contract, but as a trainee, so you won't make minimum wage for 10+ daily work hours.
After two years of that, you're fired, so you don't get ideas.
The most demanded worker's profile is 30 to 35, 3-5 years experience in the field, college degree, masters degree, 2-3 languages, and you will make 1000-1500 Euros monthly if you're lucky.
And all so that we can have the privlege of serving TPTB!
Concentrate, people! Food, Shelter and Water. Put down the iCrap that's programming you, quit taking instruction from TPTB.
Putting down the iCrap is a must. So is getting rid of your TV, and using that time to read a book, sadly.
I woke up while working at one of the top 3 worldwide insurers.
While working there, I discovered a "hole" of 500,000€ only in my department, and worked my ass off tp track back and get the money in. The thanks I got for that was turning my 3 month contracts into monthly contracts, "because of crisis budgeting".
So I quit.
My friends said I was crazy. I discovered that I was using most of my wages on:
Commuting to work.
Dressing to a standard representative of the company.
Working off at a gym the bad health my office job would inevitably give me.
Lunches with coworkers which gave me indigestion.
Facials to erase the signs of overwork and eye-abuse, (you need to look pwetty).
Escapist short vacations out of a shit life.
I was not at the stage of blowing my paycheck on shrinks and sleeping pills yet, as are my ex-coworkers.
Break the Chain, good on you.
The workplace is generally the source of irreparable harm.
Eyes or otherwise, love!
You can't get 'quality' ($30 an hour or more, +beni's) jobs in america if your over 45.
Fortunately, or unfortunately, there are growing numbers in the $8 to $12, no beni's, part time category.
Well, at least with the "$8 to $12, no beni's" jobs, one's life still has meaning, sustenance and one is building, a character.
Agreed, but old people shouldn't need to live a hand to mouth, sustanance existence.
And they don't need to build character.
half the workforce in spain works under the table so its silly to even try an quanitify the unemployement rate there. ever wonder why its so pathetic? because much of southern europe is lawless - it runs off momentum
The reason for the gap in the 24-45 age group is most of the 24-36 year olds are happy, at home with their parents, Xboxing their asses off getting real work done...SNARC
robslob, They at home in mom's basement getting great eye/hand coordination, some one will have to fly those drones.
Here is an interesting tidbit; U.S. Birth Rate Reaches All-Time Low in 2011
No worries, the central planners have it all figured out... /sarc
Take it from someone in their mid 20s, most people 25 and under wouldn't know work ethic if it bit them in the ass.
Well, you have smarts enough to be in the real,regular folks boomer category. Not the POS category of Bill "the rapist" Clinton or Hilry "the dumbass" Clinton or Nancy "you have to read it" Pelousy or Harry "the pedophile" Reid or Barney "the queen" Franks or Chris "the bankster ho" Dodd or GW "the stupidist , laziest fuck in the world" Bush.
I bet you have to keep your resume updated and change jobs a bunch or keep your work ethic hidden else you would be accused of trying to steal someone elses job.It's hard and there is no reward for being you and the good guys do finish last.
stupidest crossed out cause one cannot be stupid and walk away from flying a jet fighter on even non-combat missions.
The "entry level jobs" pay shit wages, and that's okay, but the ultimate catch 22 of this day and age is that in order to get the job, you must have already had the job. I mean... what the fuck? Whatever happened to training, or letting the new guy learn some shit that he doesn't know yet. Employment is a fucked up game, and unless you're looking in the right (read good) places, talking to the right (read good) people who are actually still human and haven't become bots yet, you're fucked.
Two of my friends are mid 20s about to go to med school. One of them has worked at a coffee shop and as a bitch in a bio lab. The other has never had a job. How does one pop out of some goddamn establishment at 30+ years of age, with $100k - $200k in debt, no experience with developing a work ethic, and expect to have a job that miraculously pays a shitload and clears your debt and makes you well-respected in society, etc.
I have no idea where this big ball of shit is headed - certainly looks ugly from the outside.
The saddest part is most of the people I graduated from high school with are unemployed with their degrees, living off of food stamps or WIC (probably a number of other programs I have no idea about), they have kids and most of them aren't married, if they're working it's at Wal-Mart or they're getting turned away from the military recruiting office due to pre-existing conditions that bar them from service.
Then to top it off they sit on Facebook all day and post useless garbage relating to the current viral video on youtube or bragging about how they're getting the new iPhone for Christmas or their B-Day.
People speak about revolution but I guarantee the disenfranchised, money loving, no work ethic, porn obsessed youth are too concerned with their iZombie gadgets to care. Having offered the opportunity for them to wake up at numerous occasions via this website and other information the general response is their eyes glazing over and they slip back into commatose at will.
Case in point, most people, when given the chance, will take the blue pill.
What I see when I gaze across my peer group at large:
- Little or no regard for history of any sort.
- No knowledge of current political and economic events (truthfully presented... like here) and their ramifications.
- Very little general knowledge.
- Little to no experience with using basic tools or power tools and building things.
- No experience with plants and growing things.
- Narcissism and unnecessary consumerism.
Yeah, you're right...
Boomers tried to give their children the best stuff/life their money could buy. It is tragic they did not realize this wasn't doing them a favor.
My post-WWII-child mother checked me into reality in my early 20s:
"Please don't date specialized idiots. If he can't write well, cook his meals, sew his clothes, fix his car and house, and could not grow himself a potato like I taught you to, you are dating a potential dependent."
How does one pop out of some goddamn establishment at 30+ years of age, with $100k - $200k in debt, no experience with developing a work ethic, and expect to have a job that miraculously pays a shitload and clears your debt and makes you well-respected in society, etc.
One does not... This is why you measure twice, cut once. If you know that you're going to be SOL when you graduate, then you don't go do what you want to do... you go get a practical degree (only if necessary) and get to work. Stop, think, and determine what areas have needs... fill those needs. Plumbers, HVAC, welders, etc. Doing what you love to do for your entire life is a fantasy... born in a time of irrational exhuberance from the spoils of WW2. Well, we've squandered those spoils at this juncture... and have a nasty bar tab to boot.
Good for you in noting that the pigs are only in the Democratic party! NOT! Fucking Party Pussy. All you fuckers (Party Pussies) and your deception need to hurl yourself under the bus and get the fuck out of the way of a viable future.
I started working when I was 12, but I didn't really develop a work ethic until I was 30. I had this crazy idea that I would enjoy my youth. Now I'm an adult. Yipee.
http://chicagofed.org/digital_assets/publications/chicago_fed_letter/2012/cflmarch2012_296.pdf
The authors conclude that just under half of the post-1999 decline in the U.S. labor force participation rate, or LFPR (the proportion of the working-age population that is employed
or unemployed and seeking work), can be explained by long-running demographic patterns, such as the retirement of baby boomers.
i know i know fed research just curious to hear other's thoughts
How many times do I have to say it! ZH is the best!
Unbelieveable!
Boomers are aged 48-66 in 2012. Both President Obama and Governor Romney are Boomers. Joe Biden is several years older than a Boomer.
I quite agree that some prominent truly elderly people should ride off into the sunset: The Koch Brothers, for instance, and Jack Welch, or Sheldon Whatshisface.
Your abominable hero Mr. Trump is in the "Very Oldest Boomers" category at 66, while your other hero Steve Wynn is 67. Jamie Dimon and Lloyd Blankfein are both middle-range Boomers.
And if you are younger you must not watch, you must turn away from all of it and never look back. Nothing that exists today will continue to exist unless you adopt the very same methods employed by these people.
Labor surplus. Good for profits. It's all in the game to preserve the power of large companies.
LMAOROTF. Yes, you stupid fucks keep believing it's the boomers " who refuse to leave the workforce and make way for others." It's not unfettered immigration coupled with the 279 races that are now eligible for Affirmative Action, it's not offshoring jobs to countries with slave labor for $12 a day plus luxurious room an (diving) board for assisted suicides, it's not CEO pay that is 412 times the avg employee pay, it's not tenure, it's not closed shop unions, it's not a shortage of cool aid or tin foil. It's the booooooooooooooomers, especially joooooooooooooooo booooooooomers.
Boomers have bankrupted themselves, the nation, and are working on the entire Earth. Yes, its your generation's fault.
Seems to me that the jig was up no later than 1971. The oldest Boomers were 26 at the time and the youngest were under ten.
Oh no, you better not bash that golden generation... they volunteered for WW2 n stuff!
Most of them were drafted.
At that time, 1971, I recall that many, if not most Boomers, were demonstrating against the Vietnam War and the draft. In the wake of that time of great change many of the laws protecting civil liberties were passed. Those laws have been abrogated by the Patriot Act. There were at that time certain groups, the Black Panthers and the Weather Underground, were trying to foment a revolution. At the time I was working as a legal secretary, a job that paid enough for me to rent an apartment as long as I had a room mate to split the rent. I stayed on the sidelines of all the political rabble rousing because, frankly, it scared me, and I was no longer in college so I didn't have the free time to show up at demonstrations. But all this ended with the Watergate hearings, the impeachment of Nixon, the end of the Vietnam War. the imprisonment of the revolutionaries, and stagflation. My generation turned inward. The media then dubbed the Boomers as the "Me Generation." I don't think the Boomers, except for some of the younger ones who got involved with Libertarianism, have ever been as involved national events to the extent they were in the Vietnam and civil rights eras. I do know that my husband, who had much the larger paycheck, saved as much as he could for retirement because we didn't believe that SS would be around when we retired. We also told our daughter she might have to support us. That is not the case of course, we are supporting her and will be for some time. I deeply regret the intergenerational blame game that is occuring here and elsewhere, I imagine. It seems to me that there is a great need for cooperation because our country is economically deep shit, and everyone has got to pull together to make good decisions about how to fix it, no matter who is elected president.
Quit propagating the BS about off-shored jobs. This is a ploy to get big fucking breaks for corporations so that they can make a killing on subsidies upon their return to the US (after/before they are kicked out of foreign countries). People are such fucking tools...
MOST of the "lost" jobs were permanently "lost" during the transition/shifting of corporate production. Anyone who has a clue about larger corporations know that they always take the opportunity to deploy automation during such shifting. (google "automation offshore jobs" or some such)
Further, MANY jobs are too costly because they are getting more dangerous. An example:
Miners take "rail-veyors" and robots to automated futurehttp://finance.yahoo.com/news/miners-rail-veyors-robots-automated-131856...
Boomers can't retire because they are idiots. These people have already bankrupted themselves, the country, and now the globe. They won't stop until the entire thing comes crashing down or they eventually get too old and die.
This is not what you want for a recovery. Even FDR understood this. FDR only created Social Security as a temporary stop gap to force elderly Americans out of the work force.
If you believe in printing money, then why don't you argue that we should spend it on elderly Americans so they can retire and afford health-care? Why are we giving it to the banks and insurance agencies?
The only idiots I see are the ones who talk about collectivist abstractions as if they were speaking about an individual.
And no, I'm not a Boomer, I'm just not stupid enough to fail to understand that the world is filled ONLY with individuals.
BTW, FDR was a Wall St. bankster (bond salesman). Like all other puppets, he didn't understand anything, but rather did what the people who put him into power told him to do.
Ya know SMB, your blame the boomers rhetoric is as moronic as the red/blue meme. Corporations have captured all levels of government. Globalization has reduced wages to the equivalent of a fish head and a bowl of rice. Did the boomers off shore the jobs & create dilapidated ghost towns? What corporations are now exploiting prison labor because it's even cheaper than exploiting the Chinese?
I rat holed every penny since Ronnie RayGun was in office. Every pay raise was saved as though there would be no SS, and that may well be the case. I grow my own food. Zero debt since 92. I do know plenty of people that engaged in more, bigger, better retail therapy. They hosed themselves. I also know numerous people that handed over their life savings to these so called alleged financial advisors & lost their entire wad. I asked them b4 they did it why would you trust a total stranger with your life? At the very least use more than one. They were afraid. Now they're REALLY Alpo afraid. And yes, they had to go back to work.
The corporation that I worked for paid the CEO more than the corporation paid in taxes. WTF is wrong with that picture? Ever heard of Citizens United?
When you people finally realize that the jobs game is as rigged as the market, you might begin to get a clue. It's that way because TPTB wanted it that way, not boomers.
It's time for you whiners to put on your big girl panties, quit the suck titty crybaby whining, and put an alternate plan for survival in place. Because it's not going to be THIS jobs market that's going to save your bacon. I guarantee it.
Let me get this straight. So the baby boomers inherited the best of times from the greatest generation from WWII, enjoyed all the good jobs, growth, borrowed and spent all the money, devalued the currency, then shipped all the jobs overseas and screwed over our younger generation, and now have found yet another way to continue screwing them over even more: Hanging on tight fisted to our jobs, and spending down whatever we have left so our kids inherit a big goose egg.
What is it?
Government sponsored programs which have spoiled baby boomers and relieved them of the need to save?
Poor planning on the Baby boomers?
A corrupt system of savings and investment that has depleted boomers savings requiring them to work longer.?
An instant gratification expectation of our youth?
Or a panic "grab it while you can" attitude by our youth who realize they are screwed.
I think its because they became spoiled. They rode the wave of a 40 year bubble and were always told by people in positions of authority that the deficit-spending paradigm was normal and expected. They taught these people that it was normal for bread to cost you $3 when it cost your grandparents 5 cents. They were fooled that this is how its is supposed to work. Now they are closing in on retirement age and they are broke, they have no other option but to try to continue to milk the system. Most of these people realize that in 15-25 years from now, they will all be dead and they won't have to worry about the problem.
If you want to get it straight then get it straight. Nixon did not consult with teens and twenty somethings when he closed the gold window in 1971 or when he visited China in 1972. FDR did not travel into the future with his time machine in order to elicit boomers' opinions when he confiscated US gold in 1933. Neither was a time machine employed in such a manner when the Federal Reserve was created in 1913.
True, but if we only blame our "elected" representatives, then how does this incentivize us to accept responsibility and become more proactive to prevent or change the actions of said representatives? At some point, acceptance or a failure to complain or correct things amounts to ratification.
Boomers were either extremely young or not yet born when the rug was pulled out from under the Republic. Elected or unelected has nothing to do with it. Ova have no ability to petition for the redress of wrongs.
Who said anything about asking nicely?
Somewhere along the way, apathy or, alternatively, greed, sold us out. Clearly, at least parts of this incrementalism fall on every generation... some moreso than others, but all have the possibility of correcting past wrongs. All share some degree of culpability. While there may be many things that were in place prior to baby boomers' age of reason, why were there no material changes made to properly steer the ship in the right direction? You do not get to escape culpability so simply.
Who said that anyone said anything about asking nicely?
If the implication is that I'm a boomer, I'm not.
Ova have no ability to petition for the redress of wrongs.
This would be asking nicely...
And no, "you" is not referring to you personally...
Boomers invented instant gratification.
That being said, this whole conversation is exactly what the banks want: Citizen against Citizen.
US Citizenism?
Red vs blue (no, not halo), old vs young, whites vs everyone else, poor vs the rich, white vs blue collar, 'merikah vs the world, christians vs muslims...
I could go on and on, how many more ways can they slice us into segmented compartments before there is nothing left?
Zeno's Paradox says it can go on forever, but modern mathematicians say he didn't take limits into account. Guess we'll find out.
Variations on the phrase, "Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we must die," have been quoted since ancient times. It's just another example of Baby Boomers and their marvelous time travel technology.
Most old people I know can't do much math.
The baby boomers are beginning to reap what they sowed. I feel so bad that are having to work past 50.
NY, NY
So, the switches should be closing at this point and you should be increasing your distance accordingly. Weather variability is only going to increase. You cannot change aggregate human behavior in real time. On one side of the mirror, you have implosion. On the other, you have explosion. Position, time, yourself accordingly. If you think about it, oil is a derivative of electricity.
As you can see at the pump, the economy does not hinge on oil, or gold, at the gas station or under Iraq. It hinges upon electricity, and more specifically to the empire, fragile dc control. Beginning with politicians at the front of the line, followed by successive event horizon layers of certified “electricians,” waiting for their turn at the trough, empire GDP will grow with extortion in positive feedback loops, while real, unmeasured losses will escalate to threshold.
The point of the parallel discussion on socialism was to allow as many to participate as possible, but don't hold your breath. The vast majority see the empire as the beginning, middle and end of the universe. You should be able to adjust your development, height/distance/time, to any gravity, by adjusting the perception of the latter.
Do as you like, I intend to watch the burn-off until the church burns to the ground and the lizards have no choice but to pay my kids 150k/yr.
Yes, baby boomer "refuse" to leave the workforce. This happens because they "refuse" to starve, live on the street or die of a disease curable by medication. "Scuse us for living...
This chart fully explains why grandmothers are now making my Subway and why grandpa is stacking the shelves of my local grocery store. Aren't government promises of not having to save for retirement (think social in-security) grand?
Don't blame boomers. Blame the wealthy.
And by the way, you're blaming the wrong people. Most "boomers" are nice middle class folks who happened to believe what they were taught in civics class about democracy and in economics classes about investment. Guess what? Both turned out to be lies. The wealthy class, who always knew this, made out well. The middle class? Not so much.
They're the dumbasses who trusted gooberment (hell, they still do). Who's really to blame here? They still believe all they have to do is grind it out another 10 or 20 years and everything will be A-okay. Meanwhile, they implicitly urge their grandchildren not to rebel by handing them money to survive.
Tell me about it. My mom is one of the puritans whiose Gov't can do no wrong. Calls me crazy when I try and explain and refuses to to acknowledge the facts when I offer proof from irrefutable sources.
The internet will learn a whole new generation about the ways of the moneychangers and the true history of the ruin of this country from day one.
There will come a day when the amry and nat'l guard will not turn on the people but, turn on the State Police instead.
Then we will necklace bankers in the streets and watch them burn like candles.
That age bracket can't retire because they have been bled out by Washington and Wall Street in the past 20 years.
It's sad to think that around the turn of the millenium the big concern was a wave of early retirements on account of ballooning portfolio values. They said the wave of early retirements, reducing the pool of available labor, would apply upward pressure on wages, negatively impacting corporate profitability. Also, it was theorized that the younger folks who would replace the early retirees simply were not as experienced, which threatened productivity gains. Fast forward a decade, and a flat to down market, and here we are...
I was one of the idiots who bought the lie and borrowed 50k to get a degree. Now I am fighting geezers, who were supposed to retire ten years ago, for their job. Bunch of nasty bastards they are too. They will misinform you every step of the way. Now these fuckers are going to live forever burning up social security benefits. The real shame is all the late 40 somethings mooching off the parents who won't/can't retire.
If I were that fucking old I would be smuggling weed in a Winabagoo or growing gank bud in the basement. What the fuck is the man going to do? Lock up 65 year olds for dealing weed?
That will, probably, be my retirement. I think I'll do it in a sail boat though.
You do know why they WILL lock you up? It creates new jobs. You get to rot in jail but nobody will care except your family and friends.
Good 4 U Nancy Botwin.
So, that degree is music appreciation with minor in french romance poetry not doing you much good huh?
Bachalors of Science Chemical Engineering.
Wishing I would have studied accounting and been a CPA now.
I have a good job working in water treatment for a muni but, it's hard to advance when the geezers work until they die.
To bad they have to work until they die.
Good posts.
The geezers won't be around as long as u think...stress and O-Care will push them over, as planned.
Hang in there, the biz of clean water production will require ur services en el collapso.
Awww, poor baby. You have a good job, but us old geezers are holding you back. JHC. So, get another job douche-muffin and buy some more shiny shit becuase our economy (apple) needs your help. Where's the love of the people that came before you and built the g'Damn water treatment plant where you are currently employed. You must be in some Govt job . Totally out of touch with the real world.
I became an aerospace engineer without benefit of a degree.
http://www.ecnmag.com/tags/Blogs/M-Simon/
You wanted a ticket. I decided to figure out how to get on the train and steal the engineer's job. And I got paid while doing it. All you had to do was shell out big bucks for knowledge that was available for free. Dumb much?
"…and a massive 67.8% went to America's baby boomers: those aged 55 and over (source), and who refuse to leave the workforce and make way for others."
And, now, ZH says they must step aside and "make way for others," and those "others" will be the financial elites and they will decide who works and who gets paid, and what that pay will be.
How smug! Has Obama's Information Czar, Cass Sunstein, taken over Zero Hedge right before the election? These words have in them the seeds of hatred.
What’s the object of this generational hatred, i.e., worker versus worker? It is to destroy the brotherhood of man and, once again, the bankers win.
These words remind me of the gloating and falsehoods of Sherri Souzen; it is this attitude that created this dog-eat-dog political environment where the bankers get the bailouts and the retirees, savers and baby boomers get the blame:
Contrary to what many imply, a majority of baby boomers have tasted the bitter fruit of hardship and disillusionment much of their lives. And to rub salt in their wounds, the MSM is now misrepresenting them so the government won’t have to pay out the value of the Social Security and Medicare that they paid into all their working lives. At the same time, Bernanke is devaluing the purchasing power of their savings, investments, pensions, and SS.
I got it... they're doing jobs younger American won't do.
If you ran a farm like the government is run, you'd starving and dead in no time.
LOL...I'm a boomer, and I love working. I'm also way more talented and experienced than 99% of the non-reading, smartphone-addicted, social-skills-lacking post-grad dipshits who are currently looking for jobs (or who are currently working for people like me). Why should I retire? FUCK YOU, ASSHOLES. I've been working and paying taxes for 35 years, and I'm going to continue working until one of you kicks me out, which won't be anytime soon, because I've made sure that I know what each and every one of you do, and exactly how you do it, so that I can do it better than any of you can. Now, who do you think the company's going to listen to--me or you? FUCK OFF.
Typical Boomer who thinks he's going to live forever... Spoiled to the core.
LOL! How do I think I'm going to live forever? The reason I'm working (and working hard) is because I KNOW FULL WELL that I'm not going to live forever. What are you, a fucking idiot? And how am I "spoiled"? Did you literally not read my post? You know, the part where I said that I've worked and paid taxes for 35 years? How does that make me spoiled? Am I spoiled because I have a job? How am I spoiled?
Oh yeah? Well you didn't do that, other people helped you do that.
I like you. Keep working.
Heh, good rant, I'm in that boat too, no hippie weed-choking old fart looking to suck SocSec dry, I take care of myself and am too young on the boomer scale to think SocSec will be around when I retire anyway so that attack isn't going to hit me...all these decades of paying taxes to the whore government has been pissed away 10x's over by goddamned socialist fucks. I got a job as long as I want one cause I know shit, can do shit, show up and work. They can replace me with 3-4 young jackasses and watch productivity hit the shitter, don't bother me, I am in a pre-Galt position and don't give a damn either way. I am flexible, adaptable and well prepared. And I am not interested in self-ascending like so many of these Logan's Run fucks lurking in these parts. Those bastards come for me they better have more guns and better aim than me.
"I got a job as long as I want one cause I know shit, can do shit, show up and work..I am flexible, adaptable and well prepared."
Exactly. And I bet you can also smile and say hello to people you pass in the hallway at work, even if you don't know them or care about them. I work with tons of twentysomethings, and I swear, there's literally something wrong with these people--they have no interaction skills! I'm not a Luddite by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm convinced that we now have an entire younger generation of zombies who were literally raised by devices. Which makes things much easier for those of us who weren't... :-)
Not universal, but yeah, I think they like machines better than people...kind of creepy sometimes. But what is really glaring is the lack of overall communication skills. I don't know if it is texting or what, but written skills, basic structure and language...I have seen some truly horrendous writing in reports and e-mails. My mother and grandmother (if alive) would slap me upside the head for composing such rubbish!
You may enjoy this:
http://www.ecnmag.com/tags/Blogs/M-Simon/
Technical writing. But I have a following.
' those aged 55 and over , and who refuse to leave the workforce and make way for others. ' Well, if anyone can tell me how to quit working without starving to death, i'm ready to listen ! between losing my shirt in the stock market & losing 1/2 my so-called wealth in this big old house that i raised the kids in & Z.I.R.P. i ain't gonna make it ! the normalcy of society is gone & these s.o.b. private central bankers are at the core of it, getting everyone into debt. what little i do have, now my own kids are looking at me to hand it to them to bail them out of their debt ! = mom ain't got much of nothing anymore except this stinking little $8.50/hr job. ( i clearly see who's are the core of this societal rot.)
You are expected to get the hell out of the way or be killed, not sure what else can be derived from such an idiotic statement.
Lynnybee ~
I stand with you. Your words are a ringing indictment of the banker takeover of not only a national economy but the fabric of a work ethic and a culture of fairness and justice.
I am very disappointed in those who would side now with the bankers in dividing generations and workers so that, one group at a time, they can be robbed of their livelihoods and futures… and their country.
thank you, dear. i'm one of the lucky ones in that i am well & eat & have paid off auto & home. my adult children live with me rent free & we all eat. it is not easy growing old. my greatest fear is hunger in this country. i know what's been going on now. pre-1913 American citizens walked around with gold&silver in their pockets & were land owners & no tax on their labor. the international bankers have ruined us . they will be their own ruination.
It is that attitude, lynnybee, that built the country and made it great… and we, you and I, are going to take it back. We all needed to hear those words of thankfulness and individualism in these dire times, to give us the courage and fortitude to go on, to fight for what really matters.
And you are right, the international bankers who have ruined us will be their own ruination. Is is happening now...
Genius of eliminating pensions, then ZIRP. This is NOT hard to figure out. Thought that was a feature, not a bug. Still, technology sped up the adjustment between China and US wage rates, should have taken two generations, not 10 years. Magic market will fix all of it. These are trends you can take to the bank, as no one has the nerve to shake the invisible hand. At a session at Fidelity in Palo Alto yesterday the retirees were discussing the bond-like attributes of Soc Sec. If Mitt makes a move toward SS he will find himself facing pitchforks in every sunny state.
Every time a 54 year old turns 55, a job disappears in the 25-54 year group and the job moves into the 55+ group. 1957 was the peak birth year of the baby boom and 1957+55 = 2012, so the 55+ group is growing very rapidly this year. The 55+ group will continue growing until 2019 (roughly) and then start to contract. After that, watch out! Because the 55+ group is the group that is most actively saving for retirement, buying stocks, bonds, etc.
I understand why many of the senior workers won't "get out of the way" and retire. It isn't because they don't want to retire, many can't, they are providing for their children and grandchildren. The house down the street from me has three generations living in it {and this is an upscale neighborhood}. How many more like it are there?
shitloads................
Hi,
Nice to see lots of agressive posts between baby boomers, the young and other groups. Now if we can direct that energy at the fuckers causing all this mayhem, that would be lovely.
Divide and conquer mean anything to anybody?
The mayhem is caused by manipulating interest rates down. By massive govt deficit spending. By fractional reserve banking.
Many of you know this. so why the hostility? Because you are a knowledgeable, intelligent person who is STILL a BRAINWASHED fucking sheep.
Its not your fault. Its not your fault. Its not your fault. Its not your fault. Its not your fault. Its not your fault. Its not your fault. Its not your fault.
Without trust there is no society. We trusted the bankers, they were once worthy of that trust. We trusted politicians, that was our fault.
Have a great weekend. Slag me off if it makes you feel better. (Brainwashed sheep don't worry me.)
Yeah, Darth, I include myself in the list of Zombie Sheeple, because there is NOTHING realistic and practical that I can actually do to stop being one of the Sheeple, being fleeced, and set up to be slaughtered. I have to totally agree with the comments you posted! After learning about these problems, and doing everything I could think of to try to fix them, my final conclusions are that I have been forced to retreat. I cannot get out of the herd of sheeple, and I cannot stop them being stampeded off the cliff. Merely being black sheeple does not make any difference, since that is still being one of the sheeple. There are NO sane ways to effectively resist the already established systems of legalized lies, backed by legalized violence. Those are automatically getting worse, faster. ... I can either do things that make no difference, which is practically the same as doing nothing, or I could do things that make it get even worse, faster.
make it crash n burn faster...then recovery is possible for u (if young enough) and the children.
Walk, bike...don't consume (especially another new phone), and take pleasure in it. This Tuesday, STAy HOMe and starve the beast.
Darth, great words of truth...I believe everyone here is perceptive enough not to argue w you. Best.
Thanks for the comments. You are both right.
I say that knowledge is power. There is a difference between being a sheeple and an informed sheeple. Living in a society benefits all / most members of the society. I just wish to make some changes!
I can argue with myself for hours over solutions. One problem to overcome is the governments / banks monopoly over money. This is crucial.
To do this we ought to use alternative currencies whenever we can. So, bit coin for those who know what it is. Perhaps do some bartering. To barter you must first have something of value!
Gold and silver? I think just owning some is enough, particularly if lots of us own some. Think gold for home purchases and silver for cars. So 30 Toz for the average home (gold) or car (silver). This just feels right, I can't really justify it.
Finally, stop buying stuff you don't really need. If you have spare currency, swap it for gold or silver. This will bring about a mind set change.
I used to think £5,000 is a lot of cash. At this point I would start looking for stuff to buy. (Big TV's, home cinemas, another mountain bike, etc)
I now have £8,000 of (insured allocated vaulted) gold . It isn't enough.
I have two silver coins. I want a chest full.
So, I will never have £5,000 in cash again. Quite a mindset change.
So for society to become much nicer for all concerened we need to sort the banks and govt out. Stop bitching about each other. Try to treat strangers with the same common decency we do our family, friends and loved ones. Or if you are a pschopath, treat others how you would have them treat you.
This society forces us to be sheeple. You can be an informed sheeple. Once enough are informed then changes will come without effort. The consequences will be tough. Informed sheeple will know why. Eventually, things will be very pleasant for all members of society, not just most.
Finally, if we follow our current path to its conclusion then society will only be pleasant for a handful of families. (Rothschilds, a few favoured blue bloods and their pets.)
Holy poop. One of the most eye opening posts here. Didn't see it the first time.
I'd like to have a job when I'm old.
Great analysis! Just more confirmation of how screwed-up things are.
The 55+ keep working to fund retirement, pay the mortgage, fund over-priced education, and possibly support their underemployed, overlevereged children. They just want to get to retirement and all will be OK. Too bad that is when the financial implosion will take place and they will get wipe out anyway.
The 30 & 40 year olds are holding on for dear life and stuck where they are (unless they get foreclosed on).
Most 20 somethings aren't working to their potential and loaded with debt. In normal times, they are the ones that should be starting their careers and then ultimately buy their parents and grandparents homes. How is that going to happen now? The grandparents might be able to sell before the crap hits the fan but not likely. The parents will sell at a decent price to fund the rest of their retirement dreams.
Good job America!
I love this generational warfare stuff. The top 1% have most of the assets and income, and all of the power. You dance to their tune.
You know, it was primarily inequalities like this that eventually led to the passing of child labor laws in the 20s and 30s.
I wonder if senior labor laws are next?
"...and who refuse to leave the workforce and make way for others."
Attention Baby Boomers. Move the F***K over.
Love, Gen X.
Now, before you go getting all bent out of shape at my comment, please note that I work with several Boomers in higher positions who:
1. Tell me they could retire if they would quit spending money.
2. Think it's cute to brag about how they go to the doctor for "Every little thing."
3. Were going to help their children out of tough times, but decided to buy a new car instead.
On the bright side, more 16-50 year olds not working is great for beer sales.
You don't have to worry about a hangover when you don't have work in the morning.
Buy more beer, bitchez!
This actually started in the second term of the Bush administration....it just got lost because of all the job losses. I know...I lived through it.
Actually the reason we hire boomers is money. They come pre-trained for the most part and tend to be good at training themselves. They also show up for work at the same time every day, don't goof off and get productive things done fast enough to matter. All these things make money. Every other behavior doesn't.
This is merely more proof of the basic dynamics of the entire system built on maximizing short-term benefits, in ANY way possible, while that also maximizes long-term costs, which keep on accumulating ... while almost nobody could do something about that, since the real systems are based on the triumph of lies, backed by violence, which do NOT CARE about the longer term consequences of continuing to do that, since that fraud, backed by force, system is what WORKS best for those doing that NOW!!!
Therefore, these statistics simply confirm the basic social situation, which is:
THE YOUNGER YOU ARE, THE WORSE YOU ARE BEING LIED TO, CHEATED AND ROBBED, BY THE SYSTEM YOU WERE BORN INTO.
And, that especially includes those who will be born in the foreseeable future, since they will enter even later into the social pyamid system of money-as-debt. Unless they inherit significant wealth, which very, very few of them will, then they will be born into debt insanity, headed towards pychotic breakdowns, and there will be NOTHING that they can do about that!
And this certainly isn't likley going to help any:
Stock certificates feared damaged by Sandyhttp://buzz.money.cnn.com/2012/11/02/stock-certificates-sandy/?section=m...
Still wondering why ZH hasn't spotted this yet...
Nobody deals in physical certificates anymore.
Have you any idea of the problems physical certs create?
They are non-negociable and non-transferable until converted back into DTC (etc.) electronic electronic book entry form.
Which is costly.
And to get a damaged certificate re-issued ....
Whata pain in the arse.
What the holder has as viable certificate of ownership is the statement from the brokerage firm/bank/swindler that he/she/it owns said obligations.
Believe me, I've had to go through this when relatives have passed away and we've found physical certificates.....
Right. "Lynnybee" and "JR" and soon probably "Foo" and "Par," maybe the great "Yolanda the Baby Bear" herself!
In other words, Yahoo Finance circa 1997, Hong Kong still safely in UK hands, and nothing the World has suffered through counts at all.
Whom are you addressing, let alone fooling?
YOU'RE panicking this time, Poopsies, not Our Side - i.e. the side of Sanity.
Even Money in Motion, normally actually interesting and worth watching, is forced by its main advertiser Mr. Ricketts to press the idiotic Dollah! Dollah! Dollah! Kill Gold! Kill Oil! Kill Life on Earth! propaganda button. But the only Ninny they could find to do it is an ugly, creepy little 25-year-old no one ever heard of, who thinks the way to get his point across is by shrieking at the top of his lungs, jumping up and down, waving his hands around frantically, and practically taking off like a helicopter. In other words, the Suze Orman school of overkill that makes you want to hurl.
Have some big trading desks somewhere actually BET on a Ryan victory - (again, the Birchers care about Ryan, not Romney, whom they don't even like) - a la Barclay's supposed disastrous big bet on Capriles?
Could we actually see major Hedge Fund failures - or close to it - when Obama wins big, which I still believe he will?
Gosh, wouldn't THAT be nice!
Could we make these bets be about something beyond mere money? I think at least one of the Kochs - or Arch Creep Trumpie - should offer to commit harakiri on air at CNBC or Fox News, in the event Obama wins by more than 4 points.
6 out of 7 billion people in the world will sit staring at their computers and TV screens rooting furiously.
Idiot article, written by idiots.
At least refute some aspect of the article.
Only an idiot would pass judgement without a basis to refute the authors premise!
Yes?
Jackass douche bag says what?
I'm hoping to get in on the new Disney franchise; "Star Whores" and ride out those sequels until I can't fit in the front half of a stormtrooper's suit.