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A Tale Of Two New York Cities

Tyler Durden's picture


When a photo generates one thousand reactions, even without backup generators.


(Via New York magazine)


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Sat, 11/03/2012 - 18:13 | 2945004 Muppet of the U...
Muppet of the Universe's picture

You didn't take that picture, somebody else did!

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 18:17 | 2945016 ACP
ACP's picture

Are you better off than you were 4 years ago?

Well, the city was lit up and the banks were was my kind of city back then.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 18:33 | 2945045 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

well now the city is drowning and the banks are drowning (still ..again!) ...bubble Bens $40bn a month QE isn't a sign Blankfein or Dimon have turned it around, looks like they failed miserably in fact, Ben with new nappies every month for the spoilt brat babes

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 18:58 | 2945050 Muppet of the U...
Muppet of the Universe's picture

WElllllll.... actually its more like 70 billion a month, and if you were do the correction on every active program, its really like 75 billion a month...  :(


See here's where it gets scary.  Real inflation can be calculated by the equation, money velocity X m2 money supply. 

M2 money supply = "all da monies"

Money velocitty can be thought of as the time it takes money loaned or printed by the fed to make it back to the fed... 


So a low money velocity is actually a really good thing.  Since m2 money supply is skyrocketing, money velocity must drop in order to keep real inflation from skyrocketing.

So, that means if people take out more loans and repay them, Money velocity picks up speed, and thus inflation hits. 

Quite literally, FEAR THE RECOVERY.  Basic econ 101.


On a happier note, since Ben is keeping discount rate at .250%, he's encouraging money velocity to pick up speed, and m2 money supply to skyocket. 

This is about as fast as one can, legitimately, create inflation.  This is why everyone is terrified of hyper inflation.  Fun times huh? 

Well if america never recovers, which it probably won't, you won't have to fear massive inflation.  All you'll have to fear is massive deflation.  Walk that tightrope Benji, walk it good.


My recommendation, is that you purchase basic necessities now: toothbrushes, floss, toiletpaper, emergency food, emergency supplies, general goods, gold, silver, etc.   Things like housing will not move tremendously, b/c their deflations will be offset with inflation.  Nevertheless, real purchasing power, or real income, will drop, thus sending another life-threatening shock into the global economy.  The trick now?  Making China the new fatass consumers....  But what about America you ask?  Do I even need to bring up the drones and fema camps?

Edit: ^community college dropout.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:05 | 2945127 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

It was the government breast of times, it was the dependency cursed of times...

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 20:20 | 2945150 TruthInSunshine
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 "You can grieve, you can cry and you can laugh all at the same time, bitches."

--McGotham City Mayor Michael NeroBerg; High Society Socialite, Fiefdom Owner; Caretaker of Manhattan Palace & Benevolent Dictator of Barter Town's Lower Caste Boroughs

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 20:42 | 2945347 old naughty
old naughty's picture

"You didn't take that picture, somebody else did!"

Somebody else wrote the Tale also.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 21:03 | 2945374 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

at this point, 53 ZH Foxtards have up-voted a Chinese Troll for a "You didn't x that" riff.....


Sat, 11/03/2012 - 21:35 | 2945426 Muppet of the U...
Muppet of the Universe's picture

Mr american.  Because I'm in such a good mood I will actually explain this to you.  I hope you can keep up. 

Everything on the TV is a lie.


Fox, msnbc, cnn.  All fake.  A front, to keep the stupid running in circles. Everything that you;ve ever been told was a lie, is actually correct.  The moon landing, 9/11, ancient aliens, weather engineering, depopulation, illuminati... all of it is real.  All of it is designed to keep you a slave.  Blind. You have the choice, right here, and now, to be more than a slave.  The door is here.  Do you open it, and explore?  Or keep your head down, and run in circles?  Your are your own master, so choose wisely.

I am giving you the option to take the red pill.  If you are smart you will wake up.  If not, you will not wake yourself up.


On a hppy note.

may you all wake up one day, before you die.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 22:24 | 2945510 markmotive
markmotive's picture

Welcome to Baghdad and about 75% of the rest of the world...rationed electricity, brown-outs, black-outs, etc.

A glimpse into our future.


Sat, 11/03/2012 - 22:46 | 2945528 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture


"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way – in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only."


True wisdom is always current and always relevant.

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 00:44 | 2945664 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Dickens quoted on zh? Where are all the Ayn Rand cultists to downvote you? Oh right, they don't know who Dickens was. 

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 01:14 | 2945692 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Say what you want about objectivism, but it makes some valid points and plugs some gaping holes left in other philosophical paradigms.  While some of us might take up her offer to pee on her manuscripts (atta boy greenspan)[and dribble some on her man face], it doesn't mean she couldn't make a point now and again.  Even a blind hog finds an acorn.

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 01:43 | 2945726 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

shit mnewn, you should know by now that everyone on the internet is a 12 year old girl....

Regardless, you wanna cozy with Master of Muppets, and troll with your right-wing team, bitch about "the Muslim"? Fine....Walk about with your Right nut higher in the air, and sieg heil to you sir..

Muppet? Really?

Quoting "The Matrix"?...... What are you? Like 12? Just fuck off and aim your arrogant juvenile spooge at someone who'll truly appreciate its beautiful acidity....(mnewn? you dig that kid's youthful certainty doncha?)

The Rightists on this site are as arrogant, ignorant and blinkered as any medicinal DailyKos nannies I ever tangled with there, and just as dangerous to the Republic....imho...

You people posting: "You didn't ____that", The Muslim™, The Kenyan™, all your Libtard shibboleths, or mocking the misery of "Liberal" New Yorkers, reveling in dreams of bugout and body bags, OUT yourselves with every greenie for this shit....

As bad as Obama's been, you aint seen national strip-mining the likes of which you'll see when Kolob comes to town...

Yea, didn't think that

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 08:33 | 2945871 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Soooo......we're left with the "it could be worse" argument?


Sorry amigo.....gotta call bullshit on that.




Sun, 11/04/2012 - 08:41 | 2945875 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

Banana the nebbish has spoken...

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 10:21 | 2945939 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

I thought it was Olbermann, posting from his bathtub...

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 12:01 | 2946041 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

it's not a question of "Vote for Obama-Romney's worse"...

I'm voting this year, again, for neither.

You assume I'm a Leftie when I piss on Rightists because, frankly, you're simple.

ZH does still has a cadre of "fed up with both parties" (my position) but of the two remaining "factions", Foxian Rightists predominate here and they have their eyes on the Sudetanland.

They bash Libtards™ but receive relatively few responses to their own misguided bullshit....which is as richly fragrant as any encountered at your more rabid Leftie sites.

Fact is, ZH is dying.

I've seen it happen at several sites before.

A kind of partisan mitosis takes place as an aging site becomes more intellectually "pure", with the sensible center chased out by the flesh chewing extremists who come to dominate a "political" web site.

I've wondered whether there were external forces at work, as such a site, once thru its "Tower Of Babble" phase, morphs into a politically useless partisan "Echo Chamber"....

In this case, I predict that ZH will continue in future, but as another pure Rightist political playground, with a healthy smattering of "Chem Trail" kids in tow....

At that point it will have lost ALL relevance.




Mon, 11/05/2012 - 19:22 | 2950191 Chewybunny
Chewybunny's picture

I'd blame the Jews.

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 09:13 | 2945888 nmewn
nmewn's picture


When you have a president, like O'Barry, saying some of the most ridiculous things one can imagine...completely tone deaf as to what he's saying (because he's an incompetent speaker without a script in front of him) we get these things to mock and laugh at.

For the record, I was against the creation of DHS. I'm also against the consortium called the Federal Reserve. I'm also against corporate executives being paid (as salary/wages) with stock options. So calling me a "rightwinger" doesn't necessarily make it so.

O'Barry has never ran a business, never had to make an employee payroll, never had to run through the maze of red tape bullsht he signs off on almost daily...thats what makes it funny.

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 16:00 | 2946080 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

"For the record, I was against the creation of DHS. I'm also against the consortium called the Federal Reserve. I'm also against corporate executives being paid (as salary/wages) with stock options"


The problem for me is I'm not seeing enough "balance" in political comments here lately (last year?), especially this close to the election.

Fox Rightists seem to get a pass on ZH more often than not, with their simple Fox worldview bullshit ...

Too much "O'Barry", not enough, "Romney? You gotta be fucking kidding me", You dig?

Fact is, ZH tilts Right.

and that spooks me.

I've been here a while and I'd hate to see another one bite the dust as it settles into partisan purity.....


Yes, libtards are silly and medicinal and at their worst, antithetical to the individual...but Rightists are assertively ignorant (my least favorite human traits in combo). They seem generally "suspicious" of the "new" and fond of "authority and power" for its own sake.

They divide people down to the ONE, denying the utility of plurality.....and there are MORE OF THEM on ZH.

Take a look at Denninger's ghost town for evidence of what happens to Right wing sites.....(it used to have MORE THAN ONE VIEWPOINT...Now all that remains is a Right-wing chorus of sycophants)

as with any winger Environment, diversity of thought is killed and bio viabilty taken down to a desert....

Some of the more thoughtful, informed ZH posters from the early days have already fled.

I've seen this movie before 3 times already

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 07:43 | 2945848 GCT
GCT's picture

Be careful Macho, most do not know what objectivism is!  Ann had many realtive observations.

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 09:33 | 2945902 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

If you go far enough to the left, or far enough to the right, you end up at the same point.  It's idiots stuck in the middle that are the problem. Rand referred to them as, "neo-mystics". So, kneel before the altar of the almighty government and prey that they will save you, and ignore the gun in the room at your own demise.

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 08:31 | 2945868 Metalredneck
Metalredneck's picture

Nothing like a hard Dickens' cider.

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 09:16 | 2945890 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture




You never forget your first hard Dickens' cider.


Sun, 11/04/2012 - 00:02 | 2945581 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture


Everything that you've ever been told was a lie, is actually correct.

I describe that as the BIZARRO MIRROR WORLD. Pretty well everything is BACKWARDS. From a sublime point of view, it is interesting to attempt to understand WHY! I tend to believe that how deep that apparently infinite tunnel of deceits goes is much more than even your list suggests! My favourite of the deepest of those philosophical distortions was that the entropy equations in thermodynamics and information theory had an ARBITRARY minus sign inserted into them, so that the values for the measurement of power and information would end up being positive, rather than negative, as the mathematics itself actually reveals!  The most important ideas that we use to attempt to make the world intelligible, and to try to approach a scientific understanding of things, are the basic energy laws. THE MOST IMPORTANT OF THOSE ENERGY LAWS HAD ITS MEANING REVERSED DURING THE HISTORY OF SCIENCE!

Therefore, the deeper degrees to which we are living in a Bizarro Mirror World, were everything is proportionately backwards and distorted, goes off the scale of the more superficial reasons for WHY everything we are doing ends up backfiring so badly! But nevertheless, I will mention the next level of WHY everything has ended up manifesting in a Bizarro Mirror World of BACKWARDNESS: namely, the history of war. The oldest book on militarism starts by saying that success in war depends on deceits, and ends by saying that spies are the most important soldiers. Think of how Neolithic civilization has been developing on that foundation for thousands of years, and has achieved global domination through those methods, which are basically those of organized crime. Governments are simply the best organized gangs of criminals, controlled covertly by even better organized criminals. Considering these issues that we live in a Bizarro Mirror World, I ask these rhetorical questions about going through the looking glass:  How far down the rabbit hole does Alice go? How far up the tornado does Dorothy go?

The history that made War King then developed further to make Fraud King. The government legalizes lies, and then backs those up with legalized violence, and those operations actually benefit the covert shadow governments, that control the public governments, by being even better at dishonesty and coercion, and therefore, secretly able to become the puppet masters, that direct the puppet politicians. There is an infinite tunnel of deceits! "National Security" has become almost completely psychotic, and almost anything could be done through those means. Of course, I am not sure how deep that tunnel of tricks can be seen to go, or how many twists the perception of that may take. These days it is entirely plausible that "natural disasters" were directed in some fashion by the technologies that some men have, and could be covertly using. Weather modification appears to be really possible, although it seems it only can influence events a week or so in advance, but nevertheless, enough to change the intensity of storms, and maybe to steer those storms.  That is, I am NOT saying that the weather modification provides the energy for the storms, only that it is possible that marginal, strategically directed material and beams of energy could change the intensity and directions those those storms manifested or followed.

I bring that up because of the SYMBOLIC SIGNIFICANCE OF THE PHOTO FEATURED IN THIS ARTICLE! I am suggesting that the reality of what happened on 9/11/2001 was pretty well the total OPPOSITE of what we were told. The symbolic significance of those events was deliberately planned to be acting through the BIZARRO MIRROR WORLD, of public relations, wherein that PR was designed to do what it did ... In that light, I no longer find it easy to dismiss that Hurricane Sandy was perhaps not simply a natural disaster, but maybe had a human hand in it ???

I have spent thousands of hours researching all the available information surrounding the 9/11 events, in order to get a fairly comprehensive view of that, and therefore, to become ~100% convinced that was a classic false flag attack, which was the biggest one of those in history, so far ... However, I have only skimmed superficially over the information about man-made influences upon the weather in general, and Hurricane Sandy in particular. Therefore, I am not sure about those possibilities. However, I have learned enough not to automatically dismiss the idea that Hurricane Sandy was NOT simply a "natural disaster" and therefore, when we look at a photo of New York being blacked out, the MEANING of that photo might well be just as much the opposite of the meaning that the mass media and government promoted about the images replayed so many times about 9/11. ... My overview is that there has been a deliberate agenda to destroy America as a democratic republic, and that agenda has been systematically working its way through every possible means of destroying it, and I do mean EVERY POSSIBLE MEANS, which may well include using weather modification technologies, covertly, to deliberately cause great harm ...


Charlie McGrath consistently gives succinct summaries

Shocking Truth ~ Breakdown Unavoidable

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 12:23 | 2946084 hairball48
hairball48's picture

Smokin some good shit I see :) I want some!!

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 23:27 | 2945600 Incubus
Incubus's picture

We may have faked the initial moon landing, but we've been there after the fact.



Sun, 11/04/2012 - 01:40 | 2945723 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

This topic came up before, and I will repeat my pet theory about moon landings: There is a secret space program, with extremely advanced technology, beyond rockets, and the public space program, with rockets, has been a cover for that.

The evidence regarding the Apollo missions is full of contradictions, which I find difficult to explain totally away. I have read two books, and watched a couple videos on the topic, as well as several other things that claim to debunk those things. I am not satisfied by those who claim to debunk those who point out the contradictions in the evidence about the alleged moon landing.

However, from an emotional point of view, the LAST of the possible "conspiracy theories" that I want to believe in is that the moon landings were in faked. I have not made myself enough of an expert on that topic to really say for sure, other that what I mentioned above, which raises serious doubts in my mind. However, every time I have systematically studied any issue enough to become a self-taught expert upon, I have ALWAYS discovered that the authorities were outrageous liars, and therefore, I am prepared to consider that the moon landing could have been egregious hoaxes.

BUT, BUT, BUT, there is an INFINITE TUNNEL OF DECEITS with respect to all of these kinds of topics. I understand that there are at least six thousands patents, that have been classified as state secrets, due to national security reasons! Therefore, it seems plausible that there are awesome energy and computing technologies, etc., far in advance of what is known or available to the public! Therefore, it may well be possible that some kind of awesome secret space program exists. Therefore, and I wish this was true, men may have actually been to the moon, even though the Apollo moon missions may have also been hoaxes. I believe that the total package of all the conflicts in the available information can best be resolved by some sort of theory like that!

Some of my attempts to speculate about these wilder topics were collected here:

I am an agnostic about "aliens" ... and I am not confident about what the "truth" may be on many topics. Just because the authorities were lying does not mean that any of the alternatives are not lying too. Indeed, I tend to believe that people who sell books about stuff are pretty well always exaggerating their stories. However, the basic world view that the history of militarism was based on triumphant deceits, and therefore, that our society it controlled by huge lies, backed up by violence, I am quite sure is the correct view of civilization. Therefore, the idea that the authorities are lying about 9/11 appears to me to be practically 100%, and that the monetary system is based on runaway triumphant fraud is proven beyond any reasonable doubt to be true, as much as anything can ever be!

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 04:19 | 2945780 HD
HD's picture

At the risk of being junked to hell and back...

  The moon landings happened. By 1960s standards - the science and math required were not difficult. What made it such the engineering challenge was keeping three men alive for a week in a vacuum - second to the ascent to return them to the command module. The same technology developed to kill millions in two massive world wars made getting to the moon in less than a decade possible.

America has been on a long path of decline since we ended the Apollo missions - when historians look back on the American empire, I have little doubt they will proclaim the moon landing its Zenith.

As to aliens - the universe is likely swarming with life of one kind or another...but it's probably not visiting us. I think people fail to understand the magnitude of just our little galaxy let alone an ever expanding universe (and lets not even mention the 11 dimensions of "M" theory). Even at the speed of light, traveling the universe would be painfully slow. Creating a stable wormhole large enough to fit a vessel through (if even possible) would require almost infinite amounts of energy. Any alien race intellectually and technology capable of traveling to and from earth on a whim probably wouldn't find much of a reason to bother. We have nothing to offer aliens with the possible exception of our unique cultures - art, music and literature. Aliens are not visiting earth to control, enslave us (alien foxconn?) as they could bioengineer whatever "slave" they wanted. Nor would they come to harvest our water or mineral resources which plentiful throughout the known universe. Humans are likely a single microbe in an infinite petri dish- only our hubris makes us believe otherwise.

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 08:01 | 2945859 GCT
GCT's picture

Spot on HD.  I always laugh at the people stating aliens are secretly kidnapping us for experiments.  Hell if they can traverse the vast distances in space they would just show up and do whatever they like, no need to hide from us.  I too think the universe is thriving with life.  Math is a pain for those that believe we are the only planet with life in the universe.  Sure would smack most religions in the face.

Maybe they are on a gold backed system and would come here to take our precious metals.  Other then living species on this planet most elements can be found in abundance in space.  We tend to think most life must be based on carbon and there are many elements other then carbon for life to be based on.

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 11:04 | 2945973 HD
HD's picture

Great post mate.

  I blame that damn Carl Sagan for filling my head with ideas...

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 12:11 | 2946060 Mark Wilson
Mark Wilson's picture

Indeed. National treasure, Carl was. I refused to miss an episode of Cosmos on PBS when I was a teenager.

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 16:16 | 2946180 HD
HD's picture

"Contact" is one of my favorite books. I wish Sagan had lived long enough to see the film finished - but the book was an amazing achievement. The ending of the book (not in the film) poses a compelling idea involving prime numbers which is an engaging thought experiment.

For anyone interested, read "Contact" for free on Google books:

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 13:26 | 2946239 The Third Man
The Third Man's picture

This photo appears on the cover of New York Magazine. Interesting comment left by someone who lives there:

"Either you digitally manipulated the photo to add lights to the Freedom Tower or you're incorrect about when the shot was taken. I stare at the tower from my bedroom and the tower didn't get lights back until Thursday evening, and only half of them were lit at that.

By cloax 41 Minute Ago" The guy is saying that there's a good chance that the photo is doctored. Just goes to show you that you just about can't trust anything or anyone these days.
Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:10 | 2945131 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Thanks Muppet an alternative to devaluing Dollars due to inflation instead of buying toothbrushes with them going to a money changer and swapping for some foreign currency?

I've got a mattress load of Swiss Francs and other Forex rather than keep cash in devaluing Euros, Pounds or USD

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:32 | 2945168 Muppet of the U...
Muppet of the Universe's picture

Its not a foolish idea.  But I would suspect that metals might do you better.  I don't see gold dropping below 1640-60 or respectively 1600-1580.  If it does, but only breifly, then I have misevaluated the situation, and 'my bad'.  If gold plummets way far down?  Then I would have to rethink everything I know.  But I'd still be buying phys plat gold silver on the way down.  REgardless, I do not keep myself exclusive to precious metals, bot in trading nor in physical assets.  Liqour is, in my opinion, quite a good commodity to hold in physical.  -  However, if you were to trade currencies with leverage of the forex markets, the idea could become extremely profittable.  Note could be.  Personally I don't understand currency markets enough.  I spend my time evaluating commodities future prospects.  My thanks goes out to ZH for posting CS and GS's take on nat gas.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:40 | 2945212 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Thanks M

got Gold and Silver, but if Gold dips to $1,500 I'll buy some more otherwise i've got that base more than covered already

I like cash too for immediacy but if we go hyper-inflationary my Forex strategy may need a bit of tuning even if they're strong foreign currencies.. we'll see

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 01:22 | 2945700 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Friday's metal action should tell you all you need to know about what may happen to the price between now and the moonshot.  As long as paper controls the physical price, it can go down...  And, frankly, I suspect it can go down significantly.  As sick as it is, the dollar still has a bid...  and when it unwinds, there's no telling what people will sell (nor at what price) just to get some liquidity or, alternatively, how many naked shorts backed by freshly printed digital currency will be piled on existing naked shorts.

My suggestion is to hedge both ways.  Deleverage and purchase inflationary hedges contemporaneously.  Learn useful trades/skills and become more self sufficient.  Teach these skills to others, especially immediate family members and friends.  Try and bring at least some rudimentary self-made supply chain into your life.  It helps to look at it from the perspective of staying alive/not having to suck dick for spam instead of what you need to do to keep all your wealth intact or hit some multigenerational homerun while there's blood on the street.  [how good would those swiss francs under the mattress done you when the local gas station doesn't have power and all the grocery store shelves are barren?]

At this point, I'm not sure what currencies to diversify into, but many are bootstrapped to the dollar...  and most of the exchanges are obfuscated.  We really don't have too much of a way of knowing (at least for my comfort level) which are the prospective winners and losers.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 22:02 | 2945477 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

could someone get into an argument with MotU?

rick masters? 



thanks in advance

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 00:49 | 2945668 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Just buy & sell gold seasonally.

And buy juniors in anticipation of their quarterly results. Lots of silver producers costs are around 8 - 10$ an ounce, much better bet to buy them than silver imo.

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 06:23 | 2945828 toothpicker
toothpicker's picture

Why? Because he´s right?

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 20:30 | 2945331 chiswickcat
chiswickcat's picture

The Swiss Franc is pegged to the Euro. If Euro goes down so do your Swiss Francs. Candian dollars should be a good bet. In a SHTF period they would also be more likely accepted in the US as payment, then some "funny looking foreign european stuff" 

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 21:04 | 2945380 arsenal009
arsenal009's picture

80% of Canada's exports go to the US.  The Canadian dollar can't strengthen too much against the USD or the Bank of Canada would intervene & weaken the CAD so it doesn't hurt Canada's export economy.  Currency Wars bitches.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 21:30 | 2945427 Eternal Complainer
Eternal Complainer's picture

And I believe that's what they've been doing for the last several years just to keep it at parity, mostly thru jawboning.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 22:27 | 2945518 Jreb
Jreb's picture

I keep waiting for the Canadian government to pull a Switzerland and peg the Loonie to the US$. So much for that idea.

BTW - something a lot of folks don't know - Canada has no gold reserves either. They have been sold over the past two or three decades in an attempt to pay down debt (the Loonie is 100% fiat). Oh well... at least we have the US economy to back our dollar.... hmmmm..... fuck.

Truth is when the war is currency based nobody is safe.

Buy metals.... copper, lead, gold and silver, bitchez... eh.


Sat, 11/03/2012 - 22:55 | 2945564 dark_matter
dark_matter's picture

Don't forget steel, especially blue steel.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 23:34 | 2945607 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I find it most uncomfortable to be at odds with Michael Burry, who I know to be far brighter than I, but I must confess my total bewilderment at his (apparent, from what I've been able to deduce) long term bullishness on CAD.

Canada's economy is still in a property bubble stage, its manufacturing base is already highly vulnerable due to past CAD appreciation (let alone potential future appreciation), and its economy is not quite as broadly diversified as some other developed economies, with a very heavy emphasis on commodities & mining, which may seem like sure bets now, but could be sectors subject to insane levels of volatility (if history is any guide).

Canada resembles Australia in many ways, IMO, except that Australia's largest trading partner is China and Canada's is the U.S.

I just can't see any way for Canada to escape an economic downward spiral unless they join the global race to debase.

I'm most likely missing/overlooking some critical elements, though.

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 01:01 | 2945679 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Being at odds with Burry is never a good idea. 

1) Canada's property bubble is a huge problem for Canadians and the CMHC but not necessarily long term 

2) Quebec, Saskatchewan, Alberta, BC; Quebec is one of the best places in the world for mining and is filled with everything from lithium to gold, Saskatchewan enormous potash / coal reserves, Alberta oil sands - one of the biggest oil reserves in the world, BC nat gas, copper, coal

And that's just scratching the surface. 

Canada's total population is around 30m yet the landmass comparable to Russia. And Canada has been making big strides in terms of trade. 

Maybe in the short term Canada may have a couple bumps here and there but its one of the richest countries in the world and long term bullish unquestionably. 

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 01:24 | 2945703 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

I suspect canada will also be the beneficiary of some significant capital/brain flight if things get even a smidgen worse here.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 21:57 | 2945465 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Thanks Chiswick but i'm european not US. Switzerland is central Europe and i travel past a few times a year, more often if need-be and it's one of the few stable democracies and currencies, so suits my purposes down to a tee.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:09 | 2945133 Muppet of the U...
Muppet of the Universe's picture

As a final note, even though zerohedge banned me earlier for saying this. Hedge funds are run by retards.  I don't care how smart you think they are, they are all underperforming the S&P,  and it is a goddamn joke.  I don't know if they are doing it on purpose?  I really dont get it. 

Still, here's a bone for the hudge fund managers, b/c they are supposedly looking to drop fundamental analysts.  Stupid, stupid, very very stupid decision. The markets will always be here, as long as that tightrope is properly walked, which shouldn't be too hard, therefore fundamentals of markets will always exist.  and yes, qe is a fundamental and its impacts complicate fundamentals, so you really need an extremely good fundamental analyst, not to be dropping them. 

Here's the bone: The markets will crash.  Benji cannot buy the whole market without awakening the muppets, who would bloody pitchforks in hand start mass murdering bankers and power puppets.  What he can do is stave off a fall, perhaps 1 or 2 more times?  I'm betting at least 1.  Nevertheless, global markets will crash in unison with the S&P and other indexes.  WE are not far away.  But Chinese markets will likely be where the smart money moves to after this global crash.  There's your macro fundamentals.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 21:16 | 2945211 Muppet of the U...
Muppet of the Universe's picture

Well I was kinda rude...  I likes ma cursewords.


& ON THE CONTRARY.  Quantitative easing does NOT FIND Fair market value (FMV).  IT IS a fundamental. 

Don't confuse the two.  Fundamentals, and fair market value, ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 20:20 | 2945223 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

If Hedge Funds are run by "retards," mutual funds, pension funds (*cough*CalPERS *cough*) and other institutional funds must be run by vegetables.**


**Even after discounting for the massive corruption, insider trading, 'expert networks' doing espionage & being hired & on call for other illicit purposes/means, that many hedge funds engage in.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 22:02 | 2945475 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

run by GMO's

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:30 | 2945192 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

Don't be unkind to our strategic credit analysts that  Hedge in Funds. They are only playing in an imaginary world that might have still existed but for ZIRP QEternity and the GM bonds moral hazard. How could they have known a three-hundred year tsunami was Fed their way.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:40 | 2945217 billsykes
billsykes's picture

Don't BS, its almost impossible to get banned here- why? because the majority of the people here pretty well informed. 

Its obvious that HF are run by tards, but its the same with everyone, the car dealer says its always a good time to buy, the real estate agent, the PE guys are always long, HFs, brokers- basically everyone less a handful of shorters.

Anything you consume or buy you are long. No one wants the market to crash, even the banks- they are just to greedy to stop, but that's a capitalist society.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:57 | 2945252 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Billsykes  -  i don't think you understand capitalism, nobody can even define it including the dictonaries (Oxofrd English, Wiki etc)

a free market is a competition mechanism a free market 'greedy' people (running enterprises) are so selfish they have to win over the consumers by being uber-productive and beneficial to those consumers (or they waon't get any biz). Understand, with me so far?

if competitiors (other greedy people running enterpises) are more productive they beat the other greedy people... but note, the consumer is winning.

This is capitalism. The best "greedy" people get th biz by providing those other selfish people, consumers, with the best damn deals.

Lot's of winners, a few competititors lose, what's not to like?

Now here comes the REAL GREEDY PEOPLE. They're poeple who don't provide the best of anything because they want to monopolise (kill competition). They want to shove any old shit down consumers throats, they don't want to compete in amarket for it because they're too dumb, too slow and are sociopaths (ie. their greed is beyond their ability/talent to provide good)

Monopolists can be neatly defined as parasites (see Govt and all the monopolists that use Govt as a ratchet to enforce their monopoly) 

That's greed (socialism, fascism, communism or any form of Govt)

Capitalism (free market) is good greed, it provides winners all round and the highest productivity, effiiciency, fastest progress and most benefits for society

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 17:07 | 2949775 billsykes
billsykes's picture

Your right, I may not understand capitalism but you can agree that I also don't have to be a physicist to ride a bike around a corner.

My rebuttal is that your framework of it doesn't explain monopolies, it doesn't explain collusion and why  those things happen in so called free markets all over the world in capitalist societies. Which is why it is impossible to provide a case on where humanitarian socialism meets capitalistic ambition, which is really what your describing.  This is a handy sheet for you, that describes what you are talking about:  

You are also mixing ethics with capital- capital does not have ethics, it just seeks the greatest efficiency with the easiest path.

My understanding is that all companies strive or compete for share, and all strive to be a monopoly or to be the one holding all the cards. I always say, I'd known I made it when I am charged with collusion and price fixing.

That's mother fucking capitalism. 

If you don't like that, if you disagree, you are a socialist- nothing wrong with having a humanitarian view, nothing at all.

True capitalism is 100% share- very close to communism, whereby the state owns everything- think china right now. 

There is no stop valve in a true enterprise, it's just go forever until we try to become the only company in a sector. Walmart is a great example, Monsanto, banks, vertical integration and on and on. Companies don't say oh we have 25% of share, lets just middle here and keep what we have- RIM is a great current example of that. That does not work in a capitalist society. 

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 20:35 | 2945337 Muppet of the U...
Muppet of the Universe's picture

ACtually markets collapsing are a really awesome time period.  Those in the know, who work hard and have insight, can make soooooooooo much money off the collapse, and soooooooooooooo much money off the next major rise.  See boom bust is used to give money to the wealthy and intelligent.  Its also a really stupid design.  But whatever.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 22:13 | 2945495 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Muppet  -  "boom bust" is not a "stupid design", it's the human condition and our markets are but a fractul of our ebbing and flowing drives ...unless like Marx you wanna smooth everything out into a deathly flatline of mediun mediocrity ...surely not?

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 22:23 | 2945516 Muppet of the U...
Muppet of the Universe's picture

what I want to see does not matter, b/c it will not happen.  I want competition.  Pure.  We will not see real competition until the masses realize socialism and communism fucking blow.  that may not happen in our lifetimes.

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 00:11 | 2945619 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Ah, but we DO have pure competition. The problem is that includes the basics of warfare. Therefore, the competition to become the best at lying, and backing that up with violence, has displaced or encapsulated all other forms of competition. When militarism works its way through triumphant deceits, then those who did that are enabled to run monopolies within the other domains. Thus, the covert control of government through the methods of organized crime drives the rest of the bullshit "isms" in politics to fudge their way through to doing what the best organized gangs of criminals want to be done!  Therefore, we have evolved the situation where the Fraud Kings have the power to make endless "money" out of nothing, while governments force everyone else to accept that situation. Since there are multiple feedback loops, we have a combined money/murder system, i.e., the money system pays for the murder system, and then the murder system backs up the money system. Thus, EVERYTHING in the world of economics is actually always controlled by different systems of organized lies, operating organized robbery, and it was the unrestrained pure competition evolving through warfare, as understood by militarism, which was the REALITY upon which everything else depended.

Thus, dear Muppet of the U, as I already said in an earlier reply to you above, we live in a BIZARRO MIRROR WORLD, and none of us can fully understand the depth of the paradoxical situation that that propagates. Therefore, ironically, you have already gotten your wish, in that we already DO live in a world where there IS pure competition! ... However, you fail to perceive that warfare IS that pure form of competition, where there are NO rules, other than the reality of conflicts, and therefore, militarism is the supreme ideology, and that ideology is perfectly based upon the sublime paradoxes that its success depends upon deceits! That was how and why War became King, and then that evolved to become that Fraud is King. That is why our REAL system is a runaway PLUTOCRACY, where the privatized monopoly around legalized counterfeiting is the central feature of our whole economic system!

We HAVE government by the wealthy, and their greatest "wealth" was their ability to control governments to allow them to make "money" out of nothing, and force everyone else to use that "money," do to everything else they needed to do. EVERYONE IS FORCED BY THE GOVERNMENT TO PAY THEIR TAXES AND OTHER BILLS WITH THE "LEGAL TENDER," WHICH IS THE PRIVATIZED FIAT MONEY SUPPLY.

THAT situation was due to pure competition, through the history of warfare, as understood by militarism, and the ONLY possible future realities must be even more of the same, since the laws of nature are the only actual laws, and those laws of nature enable and allow pure competition, in the form of warfare with no other rules, but the laws of natural within the context of conflicts ... which is the REAL basis of our human ecology and political economy, and always will be.

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 08:21 | 2945862 Optimusprime
Optimusprime's picture

Heracleitus said it well and simply; you have provided a useful contemporary uppdate.  Congratulations.

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 22:33 | 2947529 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Yes! Heraclitus was an influential source:

War is the father of all and king of all.

As you said, I have simply updated that philosophy.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 21:26 | 2945421 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

"...zerohedge banned me..."


Sat, 11/03/2012 - 21:34 | 2945432 ZeroAvatar
ZeroAvatar's picture

Pladizow, Swedish Chef, to name a couple, 'had' to change their avatars.  Some censorship, at the very LEAST from Tylers.


(Wanna see a Blog Nazi?  See: Market Ticker.)

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 01:08 | 2945688 Ineverslice
Ineverslice's picture


..this fruit ain't for you...ur buyin' it for someone else.  Get out of my store!

Joe!...You banning me!

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:13 | 2945146 Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

aka biflation.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:30 | 2945190 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

WEllll actually the infation could start when other Countries just say "Hey wait a freakin' minute you guys are just printing that crap. So sorry. We not be takin' that fo payment no mo."

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 20:18 | 2945300 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Columbia School of Economics is a CC? Huh. I guess that explains Romney's boy, Hubby.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 20:20 | 2945305 Debt-Is-Not-Money
Debt-Is-Not-Money's picture

MZM Money Stock Velocity continues to crater:

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 20:49 | 2945352 spinone
spinone's picture

Rich people have all the money, and they spend a small percentage of it and sit on the rest.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 23:51 | 2945627 Incubus
Incubus's picture



That's why you give them MORE, so they'll be encouraged to spend a little more. 


And that's the way the world works.  A rich man can do more for you than a poor man can.   All a poor person can do is give you his worthless life/time/labor.



Sat, 11/03/2012 - 21:04 | 2945335 socalbeach
socalbeach's picture

Money supply times velocity of money is nominal GDP, not inflation.  Higher monetary velocity caused by rising interest rates would lead to inflation if real GDP couldn't adjust fast enough however.  John Hussman explains it in this writeup with a helpful plot, although he's talking about the velocity of the monetary base, not the velocity of M2.
"Think of it this way. The willingness of people to hold a given amount of base money, per dollar of nominal GDP, is intimately tied to the rate of return that they could get on an interest-bearing security. Higher interest rates reduce the demand for zero-interest cash. So if there is upward pressure on interest rates, and the Fed leaves the money supply alone, how do you reach equilibrium? Simple - nominal GDP becomes the adjustment variable. If there's not enough real GDP growth to absorb the excess base money, prices rise to do the job."

You wrote,
"Real inflation can be calculated by the equation, money velocity X m2 money supply."

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 22:11 | 2945493 Muppet of the U...
Muppet of the Universe's picture

This is my last post.  I don't know why I teach people who do not wish tot each themslves.

But i do...  Chance are I'll probably stop one day.  for good.


The latter argument says inflation will affect money velocity upward.  They are idiots.  money velocity will affect inflation upward.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 22:30 | 2945517 socalbeach
socalbeach's picture

You were clearly wrong with your statement that,

"Real inflation can be calculated by the equation, money velocity X m2 money supply."

since that's nominal GDP.  Look it up, there's nothing to discuss.

Cranky-old-geezer (below) is right that you made other mistakes, but the one I pointed out is the easiest to prove.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 23:09 | 2945566 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



Hey moron, if you really knew anything about monetary theory & policy you wouldn't have to cite "authorites" ...who are just as wrong as you are.

Nearly all those "authorities" are spewing bullshit trying to justify QE (which there's no sane justification for), and trying to stay "politically correct" so they can keeep feeding at the Wall Street (pig slop) trough.  

QE is cash-for-trash.   It's fucking LOOTING, plain and simple, as I've said in many comments.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 21:43 | 2945445 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



Edit: ^community college dropout.

Yea, it shows too.  Pretty much everything yoiu said is bullshit.

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 07:22 | 2945843 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Any experienced businessman will also tell you to fear the recovery.

Thats when businesses get in the most problem as they start overtrading.

Always a huge surge in bankrupcy's once a true recovery starts.

Add high inflation into that mix, Presto ;a  super shit sandwich with all the trimmings.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 18:40 | 2945054 guinea
guinea's picture

4 years ago there was some real hope that the crash would awaken us to quit our addiction toward debt-fueled leveraging, stop speculating on real estate and the stock market, and focus on what made the US a great power with back to the basics: superior engineering and technology, and not superior marketing and financing.  

4 years later, McMansions and jumbo mortgages are back in style, teacher unions are striking for 17% raises again from magic money, and the Dow is back to frothy 14,000.  

Are you better off?

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:06 | 2945129 rhinoblitzing
rhinoblitzing's picture

Fore years ago - I gave Barack Husein Obama the benfit of many doubts.

I figured,  Let's give him a chance. I wanted him to succeed, maybe bring closure to the race issues and hatred, and bring real reform.

please - open your eyes, BHO has delivered nothing of the "hope and change" so many people were beleiveing in. We are divided now more than ever. 93% of blacks are voting for Obama - but everyone else is a racist for wanting someone that has proven to work with both sides and has proven  business experience...please!

Indeed, at the least -  Barak Husein Obama looks to be just another NWO puppet that castagates the rich - while he and his wife fly around in his and hers 747s, renting out the complete Taj Mahal hotel for them and their entourage(s), and the MSM go along for the ride!

Fore more years on the golf course, and we are dun_


Sat, 11/03/2012 - 20:22 | 2945314 Debt-Is-Not-Money
Debt-Is-Not-Money's picture

"Fore more years on the golf course, and we are dun_"

If he would only stay on the golf course!

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:44 | 2945226 blown income
blown income's picture

fuck no

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 20:19 | 2945302 Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

Wow absolutely insane. Hopefully everything gets resolved there quickly. Bloomberg is completly making a fool of himself.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 20:37 | 2945338 DosZap
DosZap's picture

What is that saying about people who build homes, and dwellings/business's near Oceans/Flood zones/Earthquake prone zones?.

I think that doubly applies to CITIES.ONE the largest in the USA.

When you live on / almost in the ocean, surrounded by it...........what do think eventually will possibly happen?.

Like Cali folks building mansions in the hills, only to watch them burn to the ground every 2-3yrs?.

Don't want you life and property destroyed, MOVE farther  inland.

Or prepare for the worst before it happens.

We have half of Cali on one of the largest fault lines in the USA,guess what?, expect a major Defcon 1 event there, sooner or later...............ARE they ready for it?.

As for FLOOD insurance, hell I live in almost a flat area for many miles in four directions, it's still classified a Flood Zone!!.

Also, 99% of homeowners/business policies do not come with Flood Insurance............check your policies.

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 04:44 | 2945788 ManuelSDT
Sun, 11/04/2012 - 15:35 | 2946544 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture


are you better off than you were 4 Trilion dollars ago....better see?

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 18:31 | 2945046 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

Give the "you didn't...." meme a rest you dumbassed Foxtard.

I know it's endlessly amusing to the simple Romney voters of ZH.....

but the rest of us would like a break from your stupid little Hannity dog-whistle.


Sat, 11/03/2012 - 18:41 | 2945064 macholatte
macholatte's picture


you did write that

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 18:43 | 2945066 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

No, he didn't write that, he blew it out his ass, douche bag diarrhea.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 18:46 | 2945086 ACP
ACP's picture

+1 Actually laughed out loud at that one.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 18:52 | 2945096 Muppet of the U...
Muppet of the Universe's picture

seriously, why is there some liberal retard on zerohedge?  I declare statistical outlier!


Dear statistical outlier of zerohedge.  stop watching tv, you goddamn fucking muppet.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 18:59 | 2945111 ACP
ACP's picture

...and apparently he's taking Obama's advice by getting "REVENGE".

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 20:09 | 2945275 flacon
flacon's picture

I just want to know what "Hannity" is... is it a hampster?

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 21:40 | 2945439 ZeroAvatar
ZeroAvatar's picture

Honestly.....I haven't a clue what the guy looks like, or says, or does.......REALLY!

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:36 | 2945207 hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

When I think of true liberals, Howard Zinn comes to mind....  this is what he had to say about Obama before he died...

"I think people are dazzled by Obama's rhetoric, and that people ought to begin to understand that Obama is going to be a mediocre president--which means, in our time, a dangerous president--"

Those are the words of a true liberal.......

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:49 | 2945235 Muppet of the U...
Muppet of the Universe's picture

Ok, I'll admit, that the idea aof parties is stupid, and there are some brilliant liberals out there.  Alan Keyes for one would have made a great president.  However, I do not believe their fear of the potential for government corruption, is adequate, given the general inability of the public to elect politicians.  I would say the solution would be direct elect democracy, if the general population wasn't so stupid.  Truth be told, the world needs a good long exercise in anarchy before a return to direct elect democracy, before anyhting will ever get back to 'what should be normal'.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 20:15 | 2945293 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"...if the general population wasn't so stupid."

Therein lies the rub.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 22:38 | 2945538 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

you need to understand how society works before calling the public stupid.

'the herd' are like pigeons, risk averse, docile animals just wanting to go about their lives. On the edge of the herd are high risk takers, entrepreneurs, scientists, musicians etc etc, un-balanced individuals with a need to take risk (be creative) and prove themselves

if they pursie an idea and offer it to society first small groups of 'early adopters' in marketing parlance take up the idea and run with it, then a larger group and so forth until the main herd says, they've taken the risk, this looks like a good idea, we'll follow

the herd take a low risk strategy to life, they let others take risks then follow success

so the way to turn the herd is simply get a small group, like ZH onto an idea, spread it to early adopters and infiltrate larger and larger parts of the herd. That's how biz changes, science, music, fashion, you name it

the key 1% of society to win over is small biz... they control 70% of private sector emplyment and pay 70% of taxation. Win them and then cut the tax to Govt. 

1% kills 35% (Govt) dead.. 

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 22:32 | 2945529 Overfed
Overfed's picture

What needs to change is universal suffrage. If you receive money from the gov't, either as a welfare/SNAP/TANF/SSI recipient or as an employee, then you don't get a vote. Kinda like when a radio station has a contest and their employees and advertisers don't get to participate.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 22:48 | 2945551 ACP
ACP's picture

While I agree in principle, that may not work because it denies a right. Pass a Constitutional Amendment that states "A benefit given to one, must be given to all," would quell bullshit spending to a large extent.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 23:53 | 2945626 Monedas
Monedas's picture

The taxpayers have a bigger right to keep their money !  Poor people should have the right to "scalp" their ballots !  If you can't sell it .... it ain't really urine !

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 22:59 | 2945569 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Ovefed  -  there's a way to stop "universal suffrage" ...stop universal tax returns. Namely stop paying your taxes into the system so it cannot pay out.

It's also the best political policy you've ever adopted (well no Party is going to offer it to you) and the best way of resolving the problems on Wall Street, in Washngton, around the globe with the US military thug and speed recovery

Stop Paying Tax ...don't feed the suckers

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 22:53 | 2945553 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Muppet -  there are no brilliant Liberals out there. They may talk brilliant, but they suck (are nothing productive). All of them.

Nobody will ever make a great President either. Read the words of Robespierre (French Revolution) or even your own Thomas Jefferson before takin office and then compare their deeds in office. Govt is a monopoly of power in society, no monopoly delivers anything but garbage and the worst of human bahaviour.

Only competition (ie. freedom) weeds out the wheat from the chaff and delivers the best of human endevour.   

Govt is a lost cause, a truly crap design, it was never meant to be anything other than a parasites playground.

As for direct democracy voting is a sick joke and no way to settle anything. You cannot collectivise an individuals power and then deliver him more individual power (or anything) back. It's a zero (negative) sum/system game, stupid with bells on.

The free market and a free society does it much faster, see how nature works outside your door everyday

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 01:51 | 2945727 Muppet of the U...
Muppet of the Universe's picture

I agree.  Earlier, someone tried to say competition was war.  I don't think he understands the vast majority of people do not violently war with others.  The strongest, most intelligent ones, use the weaker dumb ones, through manipulation, to create and fight wars.  Often for personal gain.  This does not mean that commoner is warlike, only that they are less like humans, and more like tools.  Man in his true state is at peace with others.  It is in his nature to cooperate communally.  There are outliers, but often these outliers are weak.  In competition, they are smashed.  But if they cheat, and use the "tools" or idiots, through the facade of government, to coalesce their power (illicit means), competition is killed.  Thus progression ends.

Therefore, you should push a person, through competition, to be all that she/he can.  In a world where one is not pushed, where he feels no competition, no threat of loss, he will grow lazy and stupid.  Victory is the worst thing that can happen to you.  It is the same thing that happens when you finish building a lego set- you destroy it when you are done. 

I think that's one of the smarter things ive ever said.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 18:44 | 2945076 The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

Get outa here "Rev." Sharpton!

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 18:42 | 2945065 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Its much more amusing than those other endless O'Barry witticisms like eat your peas, war on women, Big Bird, binders and Romnesia don't you think? ;-)

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 18:45 | 2945082 The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

IDK, I do like eat your peas and properly inflate your tires...

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 18:55 | 2945105 nmewn
nmewn's picture

We should convene a beer summit immediately and discuss the finer points of hard pivots in realtive theories like "government investment" in things like shovel ready infrastructure and cutting the deficit in half in four years.

A solid B+...Harry, I have a gift, sort of like a god ;-)

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:15 | 2945151 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

I thought it was properly inflate your peas and eat your tires...shit, that explains the bad taste in my mouth.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 20:49 | 2945353 Muppet of the U...
Muppet of the Universe's picture


Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:11 | 2945142 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

"Let me be clear".

Transparent, even.


Sat, 11/03/2012 - 18:43 | 2945071 Muppet of the U...
Muppet of the Universe's picture

you didn't build that keyboard

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:05 | 2945128 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Muppet of the U...

Some Chinese most likely built the keyboard.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 18:48 | 2945090 Midas
Midas's picture

You think you can post here because you are so smart?  Let me tell you, there are lots of smart people out there.


And don't blame FoxNews because your guy is an idiot.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:07 | 2945130 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

He is smarter than everyone here, he got himself a free Obama phone and a personalized SNAP card.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:30 | 2945191 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture


Buy The Fucking DIP!!!!

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 18:43 | 2945068 Mr. Fix
Mr. Fix's picture

That's me!
(In the dark).

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 18:55 | 2945106 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Come into the light, my brother!

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:04 | 2945126 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Muppet of the U...

Clearly someone else actually did take that picture.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 18:16 | 2945011 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Dat's a helluva moat around dem big buildings....

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 18:17 | 2945014 death_to_fed_tyranny
death_to_fed_tyranny's picture

That shithole should sink into oblivion! Fuck NYC! The NEW armpit of America!

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 18:25 | 2945037 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

fuck the New York Statists yes

the people are alright, they are the world over

let's dump the human scum of Govt and all their hangers-on

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 18:46 | 2945069 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

"the people are alright, they are the world over"

Really?  Even the 90% or so who want daddy/mommy government to tell them what to do?  Look at Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, China.  The majority of people want to be led.  It's been that way for thousands of years, ZG.  If you refuse to accept that fact, you will waste your life trying to ignore human nature and advocate for things like Zero Government.  If we had Zero Government, we would quickly have Zero Freedom once the oligarchs came in and promised order to the sheep.  Most people here incorrectly jump to the conclusion that I like gov't, but the truth is that I accept that it will exist in some form no matter what the small minority want.  I believe the Founders of the U.S. understood this.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 18:55 | 2945095 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

the people do not want to be 'led' ...they want to be left alone to get on with their lives

50% of voters DO NOT VOTE ...they don't give a crap because Govt leads them nowhere, changes nothing, they know they're just a bunch of turkeys

they are the sane people (realists) in society

the other half who vote for these lying puppets are the nutters

let's side with sanity shall we?

Oh sorry, you've already decided to be (mis)led

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:00 | 2945115 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

History proves you wrong if you care to look.  Stalin, Putin, Mao, Dear Leader, Ceaser, the Pope, every King of every country on earth, etc.  The reason you hate Obamaphone lady is that she WANTS to be led.  In her neighborhood, it is the drug dealers who want zero government.  She would rather have protection and a free phone.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 20:21 | 2945308 Tortfeasor
Tortfeasor's picture

If the drug dealers had zero gov, then drugs wouldn't be contraband and thus the drug dealers would lose the "prohibition" premium. Drug dealers need govt.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 20:51 | 2945358 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I agree with you on that.  And we have real world examples.  The Mob has no rules and it/they do not recognize government.  To them, drugs are just another commodity.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 23:16 | 2945577 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

LetThemEat  -  The Mob "has no rules" indeed, that's why they are so good at supplying the public what they want and never shoot up their customers, Joe Public. The black market is a free market in operation, a perfect example of no rules and all action

Unlike the Govt who has 1,000's of rules that cause murder, mahem and systemic collapse (see banking, housing, dozens of garbage monopplies shoving crap down peoples throats)

Did Al Capone ever shoot up the public? Nope. He shot rival gangs but he didn't touch the public, his customer base. That's because like any good biz man he wanted to sell the public (his customers) alcahol and whatever vice (Govt banned) they wanted.

He provided excellent service, indeed it was so popular those pieces of human scum called Govt capitulated in abject total failure.

The Mob, Mafia and every drug gang in the US is no danger to the public because they want to serve their customers with something useful they want to buy. Remember that?

Unlike the Govt that theives off people and treats them like shit (debt serfs).

The Mob has done far, far, far more for Americans than the US Govt ever has or ever will do in a million years you moronic idiot

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 00:13 | 2945649 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

The Mob -- your preferred system.  Thanks for making that clear.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 20:22 | 2945309 Tortfeasor
Tortfeasor's picture


Sat, 11/03/2012 - 22:35 | 2945535 Overfed
Overfed's picture

I hate to say it, but I think you're on the money with that one. Most people do want to be led by the hand.

Those of us who just want to be left alone are in the minority.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:03 | 2945121 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Zero Govt

What a fucking moron you are.

Maslow pointed out people WANT to be told what to do because they are to SCARED to think for themselves.

People don't want to be free.

If that were the case the majority would have given up their possessions and lead somple pastoral lives.

But hey if that is your fallacy then continue to believe ituntil it hits you right in the head.

Your loss not mine.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:12 | 2945143 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Are you Million Dollar Bonus?  If so, go fuck yourself.  If not, go fuck yourself.  Lose the bold.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:20 | 2945165 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Gully Turkey  -  you're calling me a fucking moron and reading Maslow back to me as if his words on society are pure fact, not speculation???

Because Maslow says society wants to be led it must be the truth right?

50% of people do not vote least admit he's dealing in half-truths?


Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:01 | 2945117 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Somewhere in the back of my head I hear my Mom's voice saying...if a majority told you to jump off a building would you?

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:08 | 2945125 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Of course she had to have the conversation with you, winker.   Were you playing Dungeons and Dragons at the time?  Now you are part a group who up arrow each other for advocating positions that have as much chance of becoming reality as unicorns giving away free gold horns.  Congratulations.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:13 | 2945147 nmewn
nmewn's picture

The problem with people like you is you have no humor. Besides, I'm not a're letting your delusions burn down your own strawmen.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:17 | 2945158 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

That from the king of strawmen and personal attacks.  Like most, you can dish it out.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:20 | 2945167's picture

He didn't dish it out. Some liberal apologist did that.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:25 | 2945175 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Whatever you say, cultist.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:30 | 2945193's picture

Yes, those who think for themselves are cultists and those who advocate elected government in the form of Obama or perhaps Romney are sane individuals. Got it.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:33 | 2945200 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

As far as I am concerned, you do not think for youself, cultist.  Of course everyone who has ever joined a cult believes they have found the truth.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:39 | 2945213's picture

You are the cultist who has based his entire personality on vilifying Ayn Rand. I agree with her sometimes and sometimes I don't. Can you admit that Ayn Rand had some insightful things to say on occasion or doesn't your cult allow you to do that?

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 20:11 | 2945280 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

If you don't see that Ayn has become a major influence on our society -- especially among the mindless sheep -- you are blind.   Here on ZH, I can draw a dozen downvotes by simply calling out anyone who makes reference to her philosophy in a positive way.

Sun, 11/04/2012 - 00:56 | 2945675's picture


Here on ZH, I can draw a dozen downvotes by simply calling out anyone who makes reference to her philosophy in a positive way.


If you presented criticism based on Rand's actual works rather than simply declaring that anyone who has ever read and enjoyed Atlas Shrugged to be a cultist you might find a more willing audience. Folks expect more depth from posters here than those over on Yahoo.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 19:25 | 2945177 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Feeling frisky tonight LTER?

Ok...lets begin you agree with this?

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!