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After The Flood Comes The Freeze: "Tens Of Thousands Need Housing" Says Cuomo, As Nor'Easter Approaches
First the flood, now the freeze (and the lack of fuel and gas and heating just making it much worse). And for tens of thousands of residents of New York and New Jersey this means that as many as 40,000 will need to find alternative housing, especially ahead of Wednesday when a Nor'easter formation is expected to hit the Tristate area and bring even more freezing rain and cold to the region. From Reuters: "Tens of thousands of people affected by superstorm Sandy could soon need housing as cold weather descends on the state of New York, Governor Andrew Cuomo said on Sunday. Cuomo, in a televised press conference nearly a week after the storm hit the U.S. East Coast, said the fuel shortages are improving but problems will persist for "a number of days."" Elsewhere, and also from Reuters: "Victims of superstorm Sandy on the U.S. East Coast struggled against the cold early on Sunday amid fuel shortages and power outages even as officials fretted about getting voters displaced by the storm to polling stations for Tuesday's presidential election. Overnight, near-freezing temperatures gripped the U.S. northeast. At least two more victims were found in New Jersey, one dead of hypothermia, as the overall death toll from one of worst storms in U.S. history climbed to at least 112. Fuel supplies continued to rumble toward disaster zones and electricity was slowly returning to darkened neighborhoods after a storm that hit the coast last Monday. New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg said it would be days before power is fully restored and fuel shortages end."
All of this will be exacerbated as a Nor'easter moves along the Eastern Seaboard and is expected to hit New Jersey and New York in several days:
A "significant" nor'easter is likely to hit Sandy-battered areas of the Northeast by Thursday, the National Weather Service said in an update Sunday.
FEMA and Red Cross officials have ordered more resources ahead of the storm, while New York City is dealing with a shortage of fuel oil and steam to heat buildings as temperatures began dipping into the 20s and power remained out for hundreds of thousands.
At the very least, the service's prediction center stated, there is "a very real possibility of heavy rain and strong winds along the coast from Virginia to Maine."
Snow is likely in the interior and some models "do bring some snow all the way to the coast as far south as Virginia," it warned.
That all of this is happening two days ahead of the presidential election is merely adding to the chaos:
President Barack Obama, neck-and-neck in opinion polls with Republican challenger Mitt Romney, ordered emergency response officials to cut through government "red tape" and work without delay to help affected areas return to normal.
Officials have expressed concern about getting voters displaced by Sandy to polling stations for Tuesday's election. Scores of voting centers were rendered useless by the record surge of seawater in New York and New Jersey.
New Jersey is allowing voters displaced by Sandy to vote by email. Some voters in New York could be casting their ballots in tents.
An NBC/Wall Street Journal poll released on Sunday found that 68 percent of those surveyed approved of how Obama handled Sandy and just 15 percent disapproved.
"I'm not thinking about the election too much right now," said Frank Carrol, 59, a retired New York City transit worker who lives in Staten Island. He planned to vote, but did not know if his local polling station would even be open. "We'll stop by and see what happens," Carrol said.
New Jersey Governor Chris Christie ordered county clerks to open on Saturday and Sunday to accommodate early voters and ensure a "full, fair and transparent open voting process."
And while most appear content with the crisis response to date, with the apex being Mayor Bloomberg's cancellation of the marathon due to massive popular outcry (we are confident all those who spoke up are now taking part in the recovery efforts), the DOE just announced that 25% of New Jersey is still without power. This led to Martial Law being declared in the town of Seaside Heights which has been totally destroyed, as we showed in the Hurricane Sandy before and after satellite pics.
We expect more regions of NJ to be declared uninhabitable in the coming days as the situation continues to deteriorate.
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Ahh... the true colors start to emerge...
Just another hateful bigot at the Hedge....
Yeah I used to work in a screw factory in Carteret, NJ, just across the river from Staten Island. The place is riddled with niggers, wiggers and Polish hard workers. So what's your point? Are you from Springfield, Missouri or something?
Nope.... and that was very very funny...
He is honest, you are not.
Every gas station I've ever been too always has a hand powered pump. I would even bet there are gas station attendant training manuals on the subject.
Oh wait they do. Here's the NJ Retail GAS and Regulations...includes employee requirements and station requirements. Hand pumps are also needed to prime a tank. I'm guessing you've never worked retail. You would not believe the level of insane detail any employee is actually required to know...in a gas station attendants, using a hand pump to help pressurize a tank when I tech arrives. It's a two person job for safety process requirements, the tech primes and the attendant is supposed to keep people advised that a huge tank of voilite liquid is present.
http://lwd.dol.state.nj.us/labor/lsse/laws/Retail_Gasoline_Act_and_Regs.html
Telling me that the techs couldn't make it to the station? They would have thrown a fucking parade when any station tech showed up, the evening news filled with girls with Jersey accents promising unending blowjobs on command to gas techs.
Why is it offensive to you is my question? Does running out of something scare you that much? This is just the beginning of the show. Grab a chair, beers in the fridge.
Then one could say recovery is.....afoot? That it should add a few more....digits to GDP?
QE Infinity + Infinity?
?
At least Obama has Eva Longoria and all her hot... cash to keep him warm in Vegas. It's good to be the king!
Of course, under EMTALA, the ER will be forced to render treatment for free.....
Retired at 59, sure he doesn't care. Got a nice warm hotel room on the backs of a $100,000 pension. The people freezing paid for that
I think FEMA is there, everything is under control,,,,,,,
Cue the FEMA Trailers!!
The basic bottom line mission of FEMA is three hots and a cot if it is needed, and they can't do it.
The basic bottom line mission of FEMA is to fatten the bottom line of already fat government contractors, with taxpayer dollars.
The Guard is much better at three hots and a cot.
I'd say this situation kinda blows a large hole in the whole "FEMA Camps" meme.
Guess we'll find out.
LMAO, I must have missed this earlier...
FEMA is doing what precisely?
Screwing the pooch in a grandiose manner while servicing the 'first responders' (i.e., themselves).
Not yet, the technology to regow toes doesn't exist. But if you lose and arm or a leg, getting a brand new prosthesis certainly boosts GDP.
Jersey Shore, mouthpiece of Northeast. Perhaps freezing temps will shut up the fat malcontents.
Reap the Karmic whirlwind...REAP IT !!!
uh
DOn't worry.....Obama will give everyone free gas, free housing, free food and a free cell phone once he wins the election!!
Not being a New Yorker, I was wondering why there is such a vast difference in the help received by those in Manhattan (quite good) versus the helped received for those in the boroughs of Queens and Staten Island (deplorable)?
do you really need to wonder that?
Barack. Obama. does. not. like. poor. white. people.
/Kanye
Ben Shalom and his band of Barry men. Rob from the poor to give to the rich.
Those who don't know NYC need to know that there are neighborhoods within neighborhoods. In Rockaway for example there are projects, there are towers for pensioners, there are beachside neighborhoods, bayside neighborhoods, and everything in between. Everyone is affected, rich and poor. The fact is that Bloomberg is a deer in the fuckin headlights and his notoriously poor treatment of the outer boroughs - and the sociopathic implications of his Manhattan-centrist attitude - is coming to full view. The governor, I didn't vote for him, at least he is on the scene and saying what needs to be said. Christie as well. Obama took time off his busy schedule of baby kissing to take a few pics of him handing out Jesus hugs and right back on Air Force 1. The media insists on pushing sporting events like a fukin Knicks game bussing in warm bodies to fill the seats. fucking orwellian propaganda at its worst.
They are freezing down in Rockaway!
So I have trunkload of supplies but unfortunately the local civic organizations - they are many - are doing what the city and feds are failing at, they are organizing support. The problem is with the gas shortage and rationing, citizens can't/won't get inthe car and waste a half tank going out there and back to deliver. Local set up points have been designated not city state and fed but by local civic orgs and citizens themselves. This is aided by the internet. Of course the Staten Island civil leaders have lambasted the city and national orgs for their lack of response.
Public transportation is not at all efficient for the shorefront communities. The MTA subway map makes it look like a small city but it isn't, not by any measurement. You have to drive. Roads are washed out as well. It's a true disaster that is not being at all reported. Thanks for Bloomy and his "everything is now normal" managerial culture - I say managerial, which is not a leadership culture - well I just hope leaders emerge soon.
For those ZHers patting themselves on the back for their comparative preppiness, I should say that its not Bloomberg and Dimon who are suffering. Fuck your redemption fantasy scenarios, it is nothing like that at all. It's everyone. I have a cousin up in the nice areas of North Shore and they are out of their home as well, powerless. NYC outer boroughs and Jersey is also proving what the future will look like for you, across the nation. Abandonment of not poor districts but middle class ones as well. I'm posting fast because I'm moving quickly I have a trunkful of stuff and looking for a place close by to drop it. I can't waste gas with a noreaster on the way, I have two kids and my closest hospital - NYU in midtown, although I am in western Queens however they have shut the nearest places indefinitely - is offline I have to prep for the worst. God Forbid
5th Ave, the Upper East Side, the Hamptons, all the good neighborhoods are fine. What are you on about? The millionaires are fine, everyone else got shafted or got lucky and dodged a bullet. The whole response is INSANE. They're sending cops to control traffic and crews to fix the subways while people have no heat, power, food, or even homes - sociopaths. These leaders should be lined up and shot for this total bungling - but the media won't shut up about how brilliant their "leadership" has been - gag me. Just like Katrina, the best thing these megalomaniacs could do is shut up and disappear for a month, let the people and the market sort this out. But, but, but, the subways are back! The NYSE is open! Starbucks above 30th are open! The lights are on at Gracie! Obama said no red tape! It's all fixed!
PAF,
RE: NYU , check out this Reuters tweet:
Reuters Top News @Reuters
NYU hospital outpatients back Monday, emergency room closed http://reut.rs/VLR3oY
Stay safe brah
thanks for the post. DemocracyNow did a decent piece on the ignored lower east side and how FEMA has basically ignored it. We are talking about the same people who will lie and kill for raw resources or even more important, (in their mind) to win an election.
True dat.Neither does Romney.Staying home.
Shameful strategy to get the votes, that's all it is.
that's all this is. "Get out the votes" by providing free gas and free public transportation. "Shameful" should be changed to "harmful." This in fact makes the crisis worse not better. I'm sure the people of New York City find it ironic that the "big hero of this catastrophe is public transportation." Anywho...we'll see just how many vote for FEMA come election day. FEMA don't pay for the deductible...only responsible Governors working together to strong arm insurance companies into paying will do that. (No, that's not going to be Mayor Bloomberg. "It was YOUR fault Hoboken! YOU did this...
Disabledvet - you say public transport is being made to be the "big hero", how, it's not working yet is it, either tubes or trains??
Next Que: why is it Hoboken's fault, what did/didn't he do?
Final Que: has anyone anywhere anyplace yet questioned why New Yorks sea wall defence was so piss poor? Any media asked the question, are New Yorkers asking the question on the ground?
1) some of the service is back online, according to their website:
http://www.mta.info/nyct/
2) Hoboken, New Jersey is a city. He's saying that other places / people will take the blame, rather than Bloomberg accepting any himself.
3) Because they never thought this would happen. A Full moon with a late season hurricane landing at high tide, mixed with a low pressure front is a pretty low-probability event.
"...a pretty low-probability event." Really? How about two in a row? I heard Jim Rickards lost his boat during Irene...
Jim Rickards @JamesGRickards
What is it with full-moon hurricanes? The odds against are 28:1 and we've now had two in a row. #Sandy2012 #Irene2011
What are the odds of that happening? Well, 100 percent, now.
ROFLMAO!! Right on! :) That lower Manhattan would get help first was the most predictable outcome of this entire storm mess.
Ben's printing press is located in Manhattan, Queens and other areas don't concern him except for mass human storage of zombie sheeples to spend it all on imported plastic junk.
Not the sharpest tool in the shed are you?
Where are the banks and financial houses? It isn't in Queens, that's for sure.
Please wake the fuck up. Welcome to the kleptocracy, one party, for the banks and financial houses, by the banks and financial houses.
It's been this way for 35+ years by the way...
Staten Island here, our response is that Bloomberg is a delusional megalomaniac who feels that tourism us more important than the taxpayers he has buried with fees and taxes. It has a similar feeling to the blizzard a few years ago when he left us all buried in three feet if snow so that Times Square could be clean for the celebration. We don't forget and this scumbag will be reminded of all this when he's going to be looking for a bridge to be renamed in his honor.
Sounds like it is time to "escape from New York". Good luck SK.
Bloomberg a "meglomaniac scumbag" ?
shocker ...is he still regulating soft drinks in NY or has he got some other liquidity crisis on his hands?
Send bullets.
Send Snake Plissken
"Just call me Snake!"
Obama better keep the power out because my unofficial poll has a lot of liberals tweaked at the non response out here.
Sorry to keep hitting everyone with the local stuff but this storm shit creates a lot of funny stuff. I was at a friends house in Bethpage yesterday. The people in the house were all bent out of shape about price gouging, both at the gas stations and for renting rooms in homes with power. So I asked them to define price gouging. The cumulative response I got was "taking advantage of a situation to charge people substantially higher prices than normal". So I asked them how much they charged during the week of the U.S Open golf outing to people looking to rent.
I got "THATS DIFFERENT!" screamed in my face.
Fonza - very funny :)
please keep the "local stuff" coming, we're not going to get the grizzly truth on the ground from the MSM and they will for sure not broadcast the catalogue of huge fucking NY State errors that's caused this carnage
Hope everyone is getting by best they can while they await recovery of the State's collapsed systems and infrastructure
It is different, Fonz.
People pay real money to attend the US Open.
Priorities, my man, priorities.
Jesus...
Principles before personalities.
But then again if that was true, things'd already be a hell of a lot different all around.
People in the Rockaways aren't big fans of Doomberg either:
“When are we gonna get some help?” blasted one desperate woman, who had to be held back by the mayor’s security detail as Bloomberg stood by with a deer-in-the-headlights look."
Heh.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/when_are_we_gonna_get_some_ing_help_T35TrXo1FCdu7YRBmQkQ8L
Whoa - thanks for the link, it reads,
"Bloomberg later told reporters dropping temperatures are “dangerous” and the city is sending 25,000 blankets to the Rockaways, where it could be another two weeks before power is restored."
So power and other collapsed systems not up-and-running in a week then?
First Bloomberg blamed the "dangerous" natural environment for New York States carnage and death toll ...blaming a storm for being a storm doesn't cut it. You blame man for not mitigating the dangers of a storm so you don't collapse in chaos which Bloomberg has done nothing on that score with sea defences, not lifted a finger
And because New York was wide open to the dangers of a storm, and because he had no Plan B in case the danger swept past his zero-danger mitigation Plan A, the power is now down due to lack of any back response and he's issuing blankets.
Namely the States systems have completely collapsed, here's a rug to use your own body heat to keep yourself warm, as the States over-regulated energy sector has failed completely to support you in times (double jeapordy??) of "danger"
"issuing blankets" - given the east coast's history with "free blankets" this doesn't sound encouraging. . .
issuing blankets is about all Bloomberg can think of
He's failed to have a sea defence, failed to have a Plan B recovery, all his heavily regulated monopolies (transport and energy) have collapsed and he's all out of bullets
Here, have a blanket, keep yourself warm because NY State is running on empty, no bloody help and totally fucking clueless
Bloomberg is 'Up Shit Creek without a Paddle' ....the State the world over
Methinks CA was referring to the in-famous "Thanksgiving" blankets of yore and lore.
ori
was that another time NY State was also completely clueless and useless with the "Here mate, have a blanket, keep yourself warm" line?
it's not like most people can't think of getting a blanket themselves, people have already had to take their own disaster recovery (from NY State mistakes) response as NY States systems have collapsed
is Blooomberg offering Spiderman blankets or nothing special?
trust you to get my inference. . .
*nods*
Had to look this one up... oh my...
Blankets given to first nation people infected with small pox by Eurpoeans...
I concur with your point......
it had worked so well before, so. . .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_warfare#Modern_BW_operations
Not trying to cause trouble here or anything ORi, but did you see nmewn's comment about you yesterday?
Called you an "odd duck"
Thats some shit right there...
lol...yes you are ;-)
LOL! Yes I am !!!
at least you're not a quack
Looks like Giuliani can add Bloomberg to his list of people who should resign because of incompetence.
Only good thing to come of this debacle is that it could put the kybosh on Bloomie's otherwise inevitable presidential bid.
Bloomberg & Rudy are two sides of the same coin IMO...but I don't trust anything coming out of the NE.
My bias...and openly admitted to on several occasions.
Unfortunately, for me, the current twit is a much larger danger to the Republic than the challenger from the NE. Don't think this is not in the forefront of my mind...I don't trust Mitt but he is a lesser immediate danger to our rights & liberties.
Its not always just the pocketbook issue with me.
There isn't, as far as I know. Manhattan was barely impacted when compared to the destruction in Rockaway and SI. I drove around in the early morning after the storm and almost all of the flooding had receded by then. Lower Manhattan were inconvenienced by the power outages but I believe nearly all power was restored yesterday. I don't know of any sigificant assistance received by Manhattan residents- perhaps police presence greater downtown, keeping order. In talking to friends in SI, the destruction is significant and there are bad apples but life isn't much different than Nassau County LI where power is out as well even in the welathiest areas.
I recently heard a story of friend's husband waiting at gas station in Great Neck (a VERY wealthy area) when a delivery arrived at 4am. He had to wait until National Guard arrived at 8am for them to allow gas to be distributed. Trying to find out why National Guard is being deployed and why they have to oversee this. I'm not sure what FEMA's function is but I don't see any big contribution during the most critical days following the disaster.
Govt loves a cue
you cue for gas, then wait another 4 hours for the security to arrive
a day wasted waiting for Govt to get its act together, fucking brilliant!
Cue... queues...
The response/recovery is run by State/City. FEMA's part is provide funding and to help coordinate where national resources go. FEMA will also set up housing for folks that need it but that is going to take a while and their typical model for setting up housing post a storm will have to altered since NY/NJ is so heavily urbanized.
Bingo, so reading between the lines of your, "FEMA will also set up housing ...but that is going to take a while ....their typical model for setting up housing post a storm will have to altered since NY/NJ is so heavily urbanized."
Not only are FEMA not prepared (inept) and no help (inept) , FEMA cannot help for weeks (fast response GovtzzzzzzZ to the 'rescue') and not only have they not "calculated" to be ready to help an urban area (are they ready for rural areas or will that take weeks too???) but even their MODEL is having to be altered.... so even the fucking model is not competent yet, let alone being wholly inept at on-the-ground immediate help?????
Weren't you the arse yesterday telling me the NY State are well-prepared or something? These Govt morons can't even get a computer model ready, let alone organise a real response
So, does this mean the FEMA camps don't even exist? I mean, if they existed, wouldn't they offer a voluntary evacuation for people whose homes are destroyed or without power for an extended time? Just bus them to a camp west of the Appalachians?
The fema camps don't have the ovens..er..I mean heaters installed yet.
I have no knowledge and have made no comments on state of preperations for this storm.
Related to the ineptness of FEMA - they certainly have issues but its not realistic to expect the federal government to be prepared to feed and house approx. 20 million folks in 20 different states in less than 3 or 4 days.
The total number of people without homes (completely destroyed) or that will be without power for an extended period, are in the 10s of thousands, not 20 million people. FEMA has a budget of around $6 billion per year, and Hurricane Sandy was coming a week in advance. Is it unreasonable to expect them to have a couple of pre-established evacuation centers setup to house a few thousand people in the event of a disaster?
well, FEMA can always arrange to ship the folks all over the states, into other neighbourhoods, breaking down any ties the people had/have to the area, any empathy they've developed for neighbours, etc. - echoes of Katrina. . .
when you say NY State can "ship" people out from the chaos wreaked by NY States lack of preparedness are a).trains b).tubes c).buses up and working?
dude, calm down and think. . .
people won't volunteer to be shipped anywhere until they're desperate enough to not put up resistance. . . a week or so of less calories, cold, no electronic babysitters, etc. - by then those who plan these things will have the welcoming doors of the rail cars open, inviting all who are ready to be taken care of. . .
*need to know basis* /taps nose
anyone (still left?) in the weeks it takes Govt to get up from the canvass deserves to be coralled like sheep into railway carriages
all good citizens look after themselves, as they've had to do, as the clown of society, the State, has punched itself silly.
I hope if their houses are cold amnd out of power they can jump in their car or bum a lift and head South to a hotel or firends in the weeks it'll take the clown to get off the floor with all his collapsed, highly regulated, heavy State oversight, failed infrastructure
...and stick them in poisonous housing
It's just how the market prioritizes resource allocation. OF COURSE the NYSE has to be restored before we get heat and electricity to the little people--the inhabitants of SI are currently receiving every resource they can afford.
This is the IDEAL.
If by "the market" you meant "the central planners"
blunderdog:
"It's just how the market prioritizes resource allocation. OF COURSE the NYSE has to be restored before we get heat and electricity to the little people-"
BLUNDERdog, DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA what it takes to replace and string EVERY GODDAMN POWER POLE in a neighborhood? MAke the circuit safe back to the SUBSTATION before 14 KV is sent throughn the lines to the pole transformers?
THEN multiply that BY ONE THOUSAND!
Geesh. GIVE IT A REST MFer!
Are you angry about something, or is this the only way you know how to communicate?
I've seen Jamaica in Queens, which just got power back yesterday--there were no damaged power poles there. I take it you're basing your expert opinion on something other than experience or facts on the ground.
Thank God there is so much scrap lumber and wood debris lying around to make a fire!
You didn't burn that.
Dude... Me and my brother have been scooping up as much firewood for our stoves and reserves as much as possible. I can't believe there is so much lying around and set aside for disposal!!... Instead of people hoarding it for fuel. When the collapse comes, it should be no mystery to these people why they're cold and starving!
anyone well prepared for collapse will probably have the additional Govt burden of the un-prepared State coming around to rob you of your good preperations
Be Warned, the thieiving Clowns are on the lose and after your wood stockpile, cash, metals, food and cooking oil ...it's in the "national interest" and for "national security issues" don't ya know
methinks the Clowns are not as omnipresent as they are being billed and that it will more come down to a question of whether one who stockpiles is willing to share some of his bounty...or not. zero gov't is coming amigo...but maybe not in the way that you think.
Think Katrina takes the prize for the worst storm damage,
and death toll in recorded US history. by a goodly factor.
How short the sheeples memory is.
All the better to fleece them all.
if a person dies in a flooded swamp does MSM really care?
a new yorker death is worth many many swamp person deaths. kinda like an Israeli death is worth about 5000 non-chosen person deaths
MSM doesn't give a shit . . . until the polls close on Tuesday, when it may deign to cover the problems. I love how the NYTimes is pussyfooting around the problems. I can only imagine how different its tone would be if Bush was in the White House. Fortunately, at least some of the sheep will now realize that NYTimes is just another flavor of FoxNews, MSNBC, etc..
The Tohoku earthquake and tsunami were more devastating than Katrina and Sandy put together.
No martial law. No looting. No hoarding. No gas lines.
Amzing the differences you see when disasters occur in a mostly homogeneous asian culture. Imagine that. Folks working together recognizing the banksters/corporations and their political puppets for what they are, and then working together. Who would have thunk it?
Robots.
I think the big dif is that they are used to fending for themselves and are not coddled and provided for via the matrix of the liberal nanny state.
What is the separating factor?
In one scenario, you have people that are all the same.
In the other, you have people that come from different backgrounds.
Now, why does this variance make the difference? What is telling about this? Do we accept that we're failures at advanced civilizational function, or do we assume the inability to adapt is the result of the failure of the entire sociological system?
So, do we just retreat to "what works"? All I see is the deliberate mismanagement of institution and what we deal with is the effects of that.
The problem with people is that they are simplistic & reactionary animals. It may take a bit of training, but learn to use your eyes.
Could multiculturalism be a grand failure?
Think Katrina takes the prize for the worst storm damage,
( and these folks had 3-7 days warning to get the hell out.)Worst failure by a local and state government EVER.
Think again bro, Galveston ,Tx 1900 over 6000 dead....................worst ever.
Absolute devastation, city population 40,000.
Aren't satellites and computer models great? How many do you think Katrina and Sandy would have gotten if not for the NHC??
By the way, don't make shit up, go check the Katrina timeline.... Galveston came out of nowhere for the residents....
The storm is expected to intensify into a 980mb low which is equal in barometric pressure to a strong cat1 hurricane or low cat 2. It will differ from Sandy in that it won't be as big or intense or fall with astronomical high tides. However..it will be slower, it will rake the coast, the seas will build to 20' or better, it will dump more rain and a lot more snow on all the areas previously hit. It will track towards my home on Cape Cod and effect us, Boston and New Hampshire along the coast far more than Sandy did. It is the result of climate change and the record melting of the arctic ice sheet which has changed the jet stream causing a large high to sit over the far north enhancing these coastal lows. This could well be the dynamic for the entire winter and set us up for another record drought year this coming spring and summer. Not good and there's nothing the gov or the fed can do to change this. There will be consequences in Europe too
"It is the result of climate change and the record melting of the arctic ice sheet which has changed the jet stream causing a large high to sit over the far north enhancing these coastal lows. This could well be the dynamic for the entire winter and set us up for another record drought year this coming spring and summer."
GMAFB.
PUD is a gold troll as well. He's got the whole package.
I am not a troll and would gladly take on any of you in debate as to my take on gold backed money or climate change. Provide a forum and I'll take on as many of you as care to have a go.
Climate change is a scam designed to fleece people and increase governmental power. If you can't see it -or more likely- you choose to ignore the inconvenient truth-, then shame on you. End of debate.
I sure the fuck hope you exhibit real judgment in other matters, because you are dumb as a fucking post with regards to this one...
You have provided a swath of arguments here.
Now please explain to us how climate change was a central or at least important factor to the the Sandy disaster, dimwit.
Don't forget to touch on
- how storm surges of 14 feet have been recorded before
- hurricanes hitting the upper east coast have been recorded before
- statistical comparisons of "it happens more often these days" type need a frame of reference long enough, to make them more than wild guessing
Let me put it in a way that you will not fail to understand...
Barry Bonds hit 70+ home runs when he was jacked on roids...Do you think that he would have have hit 70+ HRs without steriods? Can you point to one HR and say that particular HR was because of steroids?...
Now, how about this commentary (reposted) from a professional
You can add this to your reading as well (assuming you are actually interested in what is happening)
http://e360.yale.edu/feature/tipping_point_arctic_heads_to_ice_free_summers/2567/
due to warmer seawater in her path compared to historical norm
Just love that line. Sounds important but signifies close to nothing. Depending on if that "professional" defines the historical norm as an average or a range, the most you can say for sure out of that statement is that the seawater temperature was in the top 50% of measurements. Really scary.
Why don't you go NOAA, plug in SST and tell us exactly what the anomalies were, it is very easy....
Or root around
http://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2012/10/hurricane-sandys-transformation.html
Another person too fucking lazy to *really* think for themselves....
we agree again.
We have had stable conditions on earth for hundreds of thousands of years. This will not continue forever. This is actually very rare.
No, it isn't a scam.
Yes, the government are making the most of the opportunity to fleece us.
Stable for how long? Last I heard there was a half mile of ice above the great lakes as little as 15,000 years ago.
Yep... that was a nice little cycle lasting ~40,000 years or so within a stable system...That should tell you how senstive the climate is if only a tiny variation in the Earths orbital parameters can cause that...
Just wait to see what you get when the temp rises 5 C.... Oh, you'll be dead and gone and therefore it doesn;t matter, but you will get a taste of it nonetheless...
So, it seems there are four sides to the "global warming" issue:
1) those that believe it is man-made and that government should do something about it
2) those that believe it exists, whether or not caused by humans at all
3) those that do not think humans have any impact at all, but understand that the climate does change over time
4) people who do not believe in climate change at all, and think that arctic ice melt, changes in ocean circulation, etc are all imaginary.
Don't waste your energy on #4, people who think everything is "so random". Anyone who accepts that there was an ice age during human existance should at least be able to accept that the climate is changing, rather than lashing out that anyone who mentions changes to the jet stream is a troll.
Count me in #3....The last Ice Age ended some 10,000 years ago. The glaciers have been retreating ever since and the oceans have generally been rising since that time...That was about 9,960 years before the 1st SUV appeared....
The volcanoes have done more harm than we ever could. To turn climate change into a political issue and create a religion around it with repentence, rebirth and a pitance program is evidence enough to understand that climate change happens and the circus around it is man-made. Go figure, climate changes. All our records demonstrate very clearly that climate has been changing long before Christ was an infant.
It makes no difference what we do or how we change our lifestyles. All we can do is realize it is happening, seek higher ground and prepare as best we can. All that expensive oceanfront property around the country will be worthless sooner or later. Until then I would recommend, those having paid gazillions for it to enjoy every day as if it was their last. How many years are we talking? This century for sure.
Good comments. I meant stable enough for human life to develop as far as it has. Not stable enough for beach front property.
Matt there is a fifth one, those that understand it is happening but realize that the human population does not have to intelligence or ability to change the outcome, hence the die is cast..... coming to the next generation... massive global population die off.
A'yup.
The human population has been growing rapidly on the back of energy consumption from fossil fuels.
At some point this century (if not in a decade or two), there won't be enough energy to go around and the population will collapse.
Happens all the time in nature (e.g. predator/prey populations) and we are no different.
The only exception I see is if there is broad adoption of LFTR for energy, otherwise it is lights out soon enough.
Oh, and don't forget humans emit CO2, so when they start regulation CO2, you can bet your ass that will eventually apply to the working man and not the industrialist's factories.
Regards,
Cooter
There is no shortage of anything. Google Joe Vials Abiotic Oil, You guys still have whole states that can be converted to food productions.
Since it has been warmer and colder than it is now, what exactly is the correct temperature of the earth?
Since the ocean levels have both been higher and lower than they are today, what exactly is the correct height or depth of the ocean supposed to be???
The earth cycles, all of the time
Look up the word vacuity and get back to us...
Answer the questions. With your ego that ought to be easy since you know everything.
What temp is the earth supposed to be? Since no one actually knows, how can you say it is too hot or too cold?
The questions are poorly framed and deliberating misleading as you phrase it...
What is the range of global temps that are amenable to the continuation of the technical civilization of H. Sapiens?
What has been the range of global temps over the course of the existence of H. Sapiens?
Care to answer those?
Poorly framed? The question is very simple.....Since it has been warmer than it is now, it has been colder than it is now, what temp is optimal for the planet? Do you know? Does anybody know?
What friggen temp should the earth be? Since it has been both warmer and colder without man's influence, How can you say man made this mess, without identifying, how it was both colder and warmer without man doing anything?????
That was awesome. I am going to use that question on climate change proponents from now on!
Regards,
Cooter
Sorry, it is a asinine question...
The planet doesn't have an optimal temperature, only the species existing on the planet do....
Look up to PUDs top post. All he said was that the weather currently being experienced in the North Atlantic region is due to climate change; notice he did not use the term Anthropogenic Global Warming at all. And yet look at all the red arrows and negative comments; must be alot of people who think the world is 6000 years old and the climate is constant.
There is no perfect temperature. I doubt humans could intentionally affect the climate either way; whether humans are capable of unintentionally altering the climate, perhaps.
The main concern, as far as I can tell, amongst those who are concerned about global warming but are not religious fanatics about it, is the rate of change, and our responses to it. And by response, we're not talking about creating cap and trade or tax schemes, but responses such as how we handle droughts, building cities in the desert and mansions on sand bars, etc.
The problem is that the world is not big enough to escape the throngs of the unprepared; when disaster happens, it is the actions of governments, militaries and the masses that are the real concern, not a drought or hurricane, or whether the world is 2 degrees warmer or cooler than we'd like.
What?
God made earth for humans. Only heathens will suffer God's wrath.
If global warming happens, it's because God willed it.
.... just like pregency from rape is "God's will"....... <sarc>
We suffer not because God wills it, but because we turn our backs on God.
What's worse, turning your back on god, or turning your back on a priest?
Lets see you try this one on for size.... according to the Quran, which the Muslims believe is the verbatim word of God, we should all live by Sharia Laws... and if you fail to do that you are "turning your back on God".............. rotflmao
"End of debate." rotflmao......
Hi Pud,
Didn't Bush Junior say there was no climate change? Are we now saying that he was mistaken?
Perhaps as a society we will realise that an iphone is a nice gadget in the context of a nice warm home and a full stomach.
We are, as a society, focussed on ever increasing GDP numbers. This is intellectual masturbation.
Lets focus on content, happy, thriving people. Not on how much shit they buy.
If just one New Yorker has learnt the value of warm clothing and self suffiency then God is wasting his time and effort.
(Unless that one person was Krugman or Bernanke.)
I don't wish to belittle the hardships that many Americans are facing. Especially those affected by the overly aggressive weather.
Darth
W also said there was WMD and that Brownie was doing a "heck of job"and didn't he also parade around like a peacock claiming mission accomplished when it was the bottom of the third so to speak....
W has zero fucking credibility, worst two term president in the history of the union and it ain't even close...
I got three letters for you ...
F
D
R
Now, he was a three term, but still ...
Regards,
Cooter
I shudder to think what your top 5 would be and what arguments you would use for the list....
Rules of Fight Club
4th RULE: Only two guys to a fight.
Good, I'll wait my turn here...still need an explaination from the man made global warming hysterics for the CATEGORY THREE HURRICANE that hit NYC in 1938.
(Strumming fingers on the table)
Hurricanes have happened all the time. So what? The climate effects we are experiencing now are not limited to hurricanes. What is critical to understand is the frequency, intensity and diversity of global weather events that are now far outside historical norms.
“Climate models are very complex, but they are imperfect and incomplete. Natural variability [the impact of factors such as long-term temperature cycles in the oceans and the output of the sun] has been shown over the past two decades to have a magnitude that dominates the greenhouse warming effect,” Georgia Tech climate science department chief Professor Judith Curry told the Daily Mail. “It is becoming increasingly apparent that our attribution of warming since 1980 and future projections of climate change needs to consider natural internal variability as a factor of fundamental importance.”
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2217286/Global-warming-stopped-16-years-ago-reveals-Met-Office-report-quietly-released--chart-prove-it.html#ixzz2BHX3q2um
That MET report has been soundly discredited if you were to investigate further.
It's confirmed by the BEST data out of Berkeley.
Making more shit up, eh?
Chew on this you lying sack of shit:
http://skepticalscience.com/nuccitelli-et-al-2012.html
Isn't it more likely that the guy who has no means to argue other than his potty mouth is the one who makes things up? But you're in good company. AGW fanatics are being called out by their more responsible peers.
There you go, quoting propaganda from a Murdoch rag while I point to peer reviewed and published papers...
Would you like to comment on the data showing the place where ~97% of the heat goes is still warming? Naw, didn't think so...
Please show any evidence in your possession which indicates that Murdoch falsified quotes from Dr. Judith Curry. I'll wait.
My fuck, so the denialistas have a schub they can trot out... One scientist out of 1000....
Still won't touch the Nunatelli paper eh? A little over your head or because it shows up the game you are trying to play...
You suggested that Murdoch lied about what Dr. Judith Curry said in the quoted article but when pressed for evidence you couldn't produce it. At least you are consistent in your incompetence and lack of follow through, if nothing else.
How long can you can keep pretending that the vanguard who oppose your AGW fantasies are only one person? Although it does fit right in with your refusal to admit that recent data shows that the AGW climate models were wrong, wrong, wrong.