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Guest Post: Will A Prophet Assume Command?

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Jim Quinn of The Burning Platform blog,

[Yes it's daunting; but well worth the time to grasp the inexorable path that we are on and rather stunning parallels to previous periods in our history]

“The next Fourth Turning is due to begin shortly after the new millennium, midway through the Oh-Oh decade. Around the year 2005, a sudden spark will catalyze a Crisis mood. Remnants of the old social order will disintegrate. Political and economic trust will implode. Real hardship will beset the land, with severe distress that could involve questions of class, race, nation and empire. The very survival of the nation will feel at stake. Sometime before the year 2025, America will pass through a great gate in history, commensurate with the American Revolution, Civil War, and twin emergencies of the Great Depression and World War II.” – Strauss & Howe The Fourth Turning

Strauss & Howe wrote these words in 1997. They had predicted the arrival of another Crisis in this time frame in their previous book Generations, written in 1990. This wasn’t guesswork on their part. They understood the dynamics of how generations interact and how the mood of the country shifts every twenty or so years based upon the generational alignment that occurs as predictably as the turning of the seasons. The last generation that lived through the entire previous Crisis from 1929 through 1946 has virtually died off. This always signals the onset of the next Fourth Turning. The housing bubble and its ultimate implosion created the spark for the current Crisis that began in September 2008, with the near meltdown of the worldwide financial system. Just as the stock market crash of 1929, the election of Lincoln in 1860, and the Boston Tea Party in 1773 catalyzed a dramatic mood change in the country, the Wall Street created financial collapse in 2008 has ushered in a twenty year period of agony, suffering, war and ultimately the annihilation of the existing social order.

We have experienced the American High (Spring) from 1946 until 1964, witnessing America’s ascendancy as a global superpower. We survived the turbulent Consciousness Revolution Awakening (Summer) from 1964 until 1984, as Vietnam era protests morphed into yuppie era greed. The Long Boom/Culture Wars Unraveling (Fall) lasted from Reagan’s Morning in America in 1984 until the 2008 Wall Street/Federal Reserve spawned crash. The pessimism built to a crescendo as worry about rising violence and incivility, widening wealth inequality, and the splitting of the national consensus into extremes on the left and right, led the country into a winter of discontent. The Global Financial Crisis (Winter) has arrived in full fury and is likely to last until the late 2020’s. It will be an era of upheaval, financial turbulence, economic collapse, war, and the complete redefinition of society, as the existing corrupt status quo is swept away in the fury of powerful hurricane winds of change. History is cyclical and we’ve entered the most dangerous season, when the choices we make as a nation will have profound long lasting implications to the lives of future unborn generations.

The linear thinkers and so called progressives who believe that history charges relentlessly forward and human ingenuity overcomes all obstacles as the world becomes progressively richer, advanced, and humane ignore the lessons of history that have been re-written every 80 to 100 years for centuries. Generational theory is so simple that even an Ivy League intellectual economist, corrupt congressman, or CNBC anchor bimbo could grasp the basic concept. The four turnings in the ongoing cycle of history match a long human life. There is a reason we forget the lessons of the past. Those who remember the lessons die off after 80 years. The linear thinking status quo keep predicting an improving economy based upon their beliefs that the next fifteen years will proceed in a similar fashion to the last fifteen years. They refuse to acknowledge we’ve entered a new era that cannot be reversed to a previous point in time. Once you’ve experienced the harsh bitter winds of the Winter, you have to deal with months of depressing darkness, harsh conditions, and stormy weather before experiencing the return of the warm breezes of Spring. The tranquil days of autumn are long gone. This dynamic can be clearly visualized by comparing our economic situation in 2007, prior to entering this Fourth Turning, to our economic situation today:

End of Unraveling in 2007 versus fourth year of Crisis in 2012

  • In 2007, the unemployment rate was 4.6%; 146 million people, or 63% of the working age population, were employed; and 78 million Americans were not in the labor force. Today, after three years of “recovery”, the unemployment rate is 7.9%; 143 million people, or 58.8% of the working age population are employed; and 88 million Americans are not in the labor force.
  • Real median household income was $55,039 in 2007. It has fallen by 8.2% to $50,502 today.
  • BLS reported inflation has risen by 12% since 2007. True inflation has risen at twice that rate.
  • Median net worth in 2007 was $126,400. By 2010 it had fallen to $77,300, a 39% drop in three years. As of today, it may be a few thousand dollars higher as stock prices have risen and home prices have stopped falling.
  • In 2007 there were 5.7 million existing homes sold at a median price of $218,900. Today there are 4.3 million existing homes being sold at a median price of $183,900. Over 1 million of these home sales are foreclosures or short sales, as 30% of all the homes with a mortgage in the country owe more than their house is worth.
  • Federal government spending in 2007 was $2.73 trillion. Federal government spending today is $3.8 trillion, a 39% increase in five years. GDP in 2007 was $14.2 trillion. Today GDP is $15.8 trillion, an 11% increase in five years. Approximately 25% of the GDP increase is due to increased government spending.
  • Government entitlement transfers totaled $1.7 trillion in 2007. Today they total $2.4 trillion, a 41% increase in five years. Interest income paid to senior citizens and savers totaled $1.25 trillion in 2007. Today interest income totals $985 billion, a 21% decrease in five years. Wall Street bankers needed the money to pay themselves bonuses, so Ben Bernanke obliged.
  • The annual deficit in 2007 totaled $161 billion. Today, the annual deficit is $1.1 trillion. We add $3 billion per day to the national debt as a gift to unborn generations.
  • The national debt in 2007 was $9 trillion. Today the national debt is $16.3 trillion, an 81% increase in five years. The national debt will reach $20 trillion during the next presidential term. Normalization of interest rates to 2007 levels would result in annual interest expense of $1 trillion, or 40% of current government revenues.

There is nothing normal about our current economic situation. The unfunded liabilities at the Federal, State and local levels of government accumulate to over $200 trillion. Do the facts detailed above lead you to believe we can return to pre-2007 normal in the near future, or ever? Not only has the economic situation of the country deteriorated enormously, the very culprits who created the disaster are more powerful than they were before the global catastrophe caused by their criminal risk taking. The largest Wall Street banks control 74% of all the deposits in the country, up from 66% in 2007, and double the levels from the mid-1990’s. These bastions of capitalism wield all of the power in this country, dictating who wins elections, who writes the laws, and who benefits from the distribution of wealth. Only in a corrupt, crony-capitalist, citadel of kleptocracy could the perpetrators of the greatest theft of national wealth in the history of mankind be rewarded with taxpayer financed bailouts, the ability to borrow an unlimited amount of fiat currency at 0% from a Central Bank they control, write the new banking regulations and be applauded by their corporate mainstream media for becoming even Too Bigger to Fail. This Fourth Turning will ultimately come down to a clash between the people and the Wall Street filth.


Those in power today are using their ample wealth and control over the legal, economic and political systems to pretend that an epic crisis does not beckon at our doorstep. Propaganda and media spin cannot avert the brutally hard choices that must be made over the next fifteen years. The existing system is unsustainable. It can either be changed by choice or after a complete collapse. We haven’t reached the point of regeneracy yet when civic purpose begins to strengthen. The outcome of this presidential election will determine the next phase of this Crisis. Strauss & Howe described the normal course of a crisis in 1997:

“A CRISIS arises in response to sudden threats that previously would have been ignored or deferred, but which are now perceived as dire. Great worldly perils boil off the clutter and complexity of life, leaving behind one simple imperative: The society must prevail. This requires a solid public consensus, aggressive institutions, and personal sacrifice. People support new efforts to wield public authority, whose perceived successes soon justify more of the same. Government governs, community obstacles are removed, and laws and customs that resisted change for decades are swiftly shunted aside. A grim preoccupation with civic peril causes spiritual curiosity to decline. Public order tightens, private risk-taking abates, and crime and substance abuse decline. Families strengthen, gender distinctions widen, and child-rearing reaches a smothering degree of protection and structure. The young focus their energy on worldly achievements, leaving values in the hands of the old. Wars are fought with fury and for maximum result.” - The Fourth Turning – Strauss & Howe

Clearly this country has not reached a common consensus and is split 50%/50% on most important issues. Debates about the role of government are waged with vitriolic passion, but the reality is that, as in past Fourth Turnings, the government has already assumed a greater level of power and control over our lives. The majority believe that government can protect them, provide for them, and pay their way. This is a delusion which will be revealed as fraudulent and mathematically impossible. The incompetent government preparation prior to Superstorm Sandy and the dysfunctional, bureaucratic and painfully slow response afterward are opening the eyes of many people. The decisions which are yet to be made are what kind of society shall we be and who will be required to sacrifice to achieve a positive outcome at the end of this Crisis. Turnings are driven by a mood change in the country and the constellation of generations at that point in time. The generations are now aligned as they always are during a Crisis:

  • Boomers entering elderhood
  • Gen-Xers entering midlife
  • Millennials entering young adulthood
  • Homelanders entering childhood

History does not repeat but it does rhyme, because of the cyclical nature of human experience. The specific events that drive this Crisis are unknowable, but the generational response to these events can be predicted with uncanny accuracy. Each generation will play its assigned role during this Crisis. The current generational configuration will propel events and create a feedback loop that will change the course of human history on a scale consistent with the Depression/World War II, the Civil War and the American Revolution.

“What will propel these events? As the saeculum turns, each of today’s generations will enter a new phase of life, producing a Crisis constellation of Boomer elders, midlife 13ers, young adult Millennials, and children from the new Silent Generation. As each archetype asserts its new social role, American society will reach its peak of potency. The natural order givers will be elder Prophets, the natural order takers young Heroes. The no-nonsense bosses will be midlife Nomads, the sensitive souls the child Artists. No archetypal constellation can match the gravitational of this one – nor its power to congeal the natural dynamic of human history into new civic purposes. And none can match its potential power to condense countless arguments, anxieties, cynicisms, and pessimisms into one apocalyptic storm.” - The Fourth Turning – Strauss & Howe

The mood of the country continues to blacken. A simmering anger boils beneath the surface of an everyday façade of normalcy. The middle class majority is being squeezed in a vice, with the rich powerful plutocrats on Wall Street and in Washington DC stealing their hard earned net worth through financial scams, the gutting of our industrial base and a tax system designed to benefit those who write the laws on one side and the parasitic willfully ignorant underclass that is sustained only through the extraction of taxes from the working middle class on the other side. Our society has become a hunger games tournament, with the few benefitting while the many scramble to survive. The stench of class warfare is in the air. The generational resentment and rage is palatable as the Millenial generation has taken on a trillion dollars of student loan debt at the behest of the Federal government, Wall Street and older generations, only to graduate into a jobless economy. The generational contract has been broken, as the older generations will not or cannot leave the workforce due to their own financial missteps. Younger generations are being denied entry level positions, even as the older generations expect them to fund their retirements and healthcare. This presidential election will only exacerbate the anger, disappointment, bitterness and fury among the populace, no matter who wins.

Prophets & Nomads

Can generational theory predict who will win the presidential election? Probably not, but based upon historical precedent, during times of Crisis the country usually turns to a Prophet generation leader who provides a new vision and summons the moral authority to lead. This leader may not have the right vision or have the backing of the entire population, but he is not afraid to take bold action. Franklin Delano Roosevelt was despised by many, but he boldly led the country during the last Crisis. Abraham Lincoln won the 1860 election with only 39.8% of the popular vote, but he unflinchingly did whatever he thought was necessary to achieve victory and preserve the union. Prophet leaders like Samuel Adams and Benjamin Franklin offered the sense of moral urgency required to sustain the American Revolution. Strauss & Howe give a historical perspective on Prophet generations.

“Prophet generations are born after a great war or other crisis, during a time of rejuvenated community life and consensus around a new societal order. Prophets grow up as the increasingly indulged children of this post-crisis era, come of age as narcissistic young crusaders of a spiritual awakening, cultivate principle as moralistic mid-lifers, and emerge as wise elders guiding another historical crisis. By virtue of this location in history, such generations tend to be remembered for their coming-of-age passion and their principled elder stewardship. Their principle endowments are often in the domain of vision, values, and religion. Their best-known historical leaders include John Winthrop, William Berkeley, Samuel Adams, Benjamin Franklin, James Polk, Abraham Lincoln, Herbert Hoover, and Franklin Roosevelt. These were principled moralists, summoners of human sacrifice, and wagers of righteous wars. Early in life, few saw combat in uniform; later in life, most came to be revered more for their inspiring words than for their grand deeds.” - The Fourth Turning – Strauss & Howe




Barack Obama was born in 1961. According to the Strauss & Howe generational distinctions, this makes him an early Gen-Xer. His life story matches that of the Nomad archetype. His chaotic early life, confused upbringing by an array of elders, frenetic alienated early adulthood as a community organizer, and his rise to power through his public speaking talent and pragmatic ability to achieve his agenda is a blueprint for a Nomad. Mitt Romney was born in 1947 and grew up during the American High. His childhood was idyllic and privileged. His moral Mormon youth as a missionary eventually devolved into his yuppie “greed is good” career at Bain Capital acquiring companies, making them more efficient (firing Americans & hiring Asians), and spinning them off, while siphoning millions in fees. He has tried to convince Americans to vote for him, based upon his business acumen and moral lifestyle, as the cure for what ails America. With the continued downward spiral of societal mood, record low trust in Congress and 60% of Americans thinking the country is on the wrong track, the odds should favor the Prophet candidate. The 40% of Americans who think the country is on the right track are a tribute to our awful government run public education system or are smoking crack.

The Barack Obama presidency has many similarities to the one-term presidencies of Herbert Hoover and James Buchanan. Both men were overwhelmed by rapidly deteriorating events, an inability to understand the true nature of the Crisis, and failure to inspire the American people to rally behind a common cause. Both men drifted off into obscurity and are overwhelmingly acknowledged as two of the least successful presidents. The men who succeeded them are ranked by historians at the top of the list, even though they are both despised by more libertarian minded citizens as proponents of big government solutions and control. Libertarians will not be happy with developments over the next fifteen years. This Crisis is an era in which America’s corrupt social order will be torn down and reconstructed from the ground as a reaction to the unsustainable financial pyramid scheme which is an existential threat to the nation’s very survival. Civic authority will revive, cultural manifestation will find a community resolution, and citizens will begin to associate themselves as adherents of a larger cluster.   

Barack Obama has fallen short as a Crisis leader, just as Buchanan and Hoover fell short. Buchanan also tried to maintain the status quo and not address the key issues of the day – secession and slavery. His handling of the financial Panic of 1857 led to annual deficits that exceeded 13% of GDP during his entire presidency. His legacy is one of failure and hesitation. Hoover was a technocrat with an engineering background who failed to recognize the extent of the suffering by the American people during the early stages of the Great Depression. It is a false storyline that he did not attempt to use the power of the Federal government to address the economic crisis. Federal spending increased by over 20% during his term and he was running a deficit when Roosevelt assumed power. Hoover was an activist president who began the public works programs that FDR expanded and dramatically increased taxes on the rich and corporations in 1932.

Obama inherited a plunging economic situation and proceeded to make choices that will make this Crisis far worse than it needed to be. He has failed miserably in addressing the core elements of this Crisis that were foreseen by Strauss and Howe over a decade before the initial spark in 2008. Debt, civic decay, rising wealth inequality due to the rise of our plutocracy, and global disorder are the underlying basis for this Crisis. Obama’s response was to run record deficits driving the national debt skyward, failing to address the unfunded entitlement liabilities that loom on the horizon, bowing down before the Wall Street mobsters and paying their ransom demands, layering on more complexity and unfunded healthcare liabilities to an already teetering government system, and extending our policing the world foreign policy at a cost of $1 trillion per year. A Crisis requires a bold leader who makes tough choices and leads. Obama has proven to not be that leader. Based on historical precedent and the rapidly deteriorating mood of the country, it would be logical for the country to select Romney, a Prophet generation leader.

No Escape   

“Don’t think you can escape the Fourth Turning the way you might today distance yourself from news, national politics, or even taxes you don’t feel like paying. History warns that a Crisis will reshape the basic social and economic environment that you now take for granted. The Fourth Turning necessitates the death and rebirth of the social order. It is the ultimate rite of passage for an entire people, requiring a luminal state of sheer chaos whose nature and duration no one can predict in advance.” – Strauss & Howe - The Fourth Turning

No matter who wins the election, there will be no turning back. It isn’t Morning in America anymore. It is more like Midnight in America on a bitterly cold dark February night as the gale force winds begin to gust, foretelling the approach of an epic winter blizzard. There are no easy solutions. The opportunity to alleviate the impact of this Crisis was during the late 1990’s and early 2000’s, and we made all the wrong choices. Now we will pay the price. An era of depression and violence will be ushered in by an economic calamity that will make 2008 look like a minor blip. The next president will still be presiding over a country divided 50%/50%, with little or no common ground on most of the key issues that must be confronted. But, as we’ve seen in previous Crisis periods, bold leadership and history making decisions did not require consensus or even majority support. Only 10% of the colonial population drove the American Revolution. Lincoln was despised by half the country and not exactly loved by everyone in the North. FDR’s popular support progressively declined during his four terms in office. It is the Fourth Turning events, not the nation, which elevates the person to the apex of power. The regeneracy of the nation will occur during the next presidential term.

“Soon after the catalyst, a national election will produce a sweeping political realignment, as one faction or coalition capitalizes on a new public demand for decisive action. Republicans, Democrats, or perhaps a new party will decisively win the long partisan tug of war. This new regime will enthrone itself for the duration of the Crisis. Regardless of its ideology, that new leadership will assert public authority and demand private sacrifice. Regardless of its ideology, that new leadership will assert public authority and demand private sacrifice. Where leaders had once been inclined to alleviate societal pressures, they will now aggravate them to command the nation’s attention. The regeneracy will be solidly under way.” – Strauss & Howe - The Fourth Turning

The Millenial generation is coming of age faced with the burdens of $1 trillion of student loan debt, a stagnant job market clogged by the Boomer generation that can’t afford to retire because they never got around to saving, ever increasing taxes to fund the promises made to their elders by politicians, and an unfunded entitlement liability of $100 trillion for healthcare and pension benefits they will never see. The mathematical impossibility of sustaining our economic system is absolute. It will require courage, sacrifice, fortitude and a dramatic shift of our egocentric selfish culture to a culture of sustainability and caring about future generations. We’ve made many bad choices over the last few decades. Choices matter. These are the times that will try men’s souls. The choices we make as a nation over the next few years will determine whether this Fourth Turning ends in a renewal of our founding principles or tragedy. Glory or ruin – the choice is ours.

“Thus might the next Fourth Turning end in apocalypse – or glory. The nation could be ruined, its democracy destroyed, and millions of people scattered or killed. Or America could enter a new golden age, triumphantly applying shared values to improve the human condition. The rhythms of history do not reveal the outcome of the coming Crisis; all they suggest is the timing and dimension.” – Strauss & Howe - The Fourth Turning

The next stage of this Crisis is likely to be ignited by a downward spiral of societal trust caused by the next financial implosion, which is certain to occur. A world built upon debt, false promises, interconnected webs of deceitful derivatives, fiat currency backed only by the promises of lying politicians and captured central bankers, and a diminishing supply of easy to access natural resources, is hopelessly dependent upon the willful ignorance of the masses. As long as people want to be lied to rather than facing the truth, those in power can maintain the status quo. Once the jarring realization of reality overwhelms the propaganda and lies of the oligarchs, the battle for middle earth will begin. What will trigger the next phase of this Crisis? No one knows for sure, but based on the fault lines already evident, these are a possibility:

  • The inevitable breakup of the European Union with the consequences of massive bank defaults in Europe triggering worldwide bank defaults as the interconnected trillions of derivatives are lit like a string of firecrackers.
  • A sudden Greece like surge in interest rates on Japanese bonds results in a collapse of their debt ridden economic system, with reverberations throughout the world.
  • The Middle East tinderbox explodes as Israel attacks Iran and the law of unintended consequences takes hold. Alliances and treaties would draw Turkey into war with Syria and Iran. Russia and China could side against the U.S. Iran and their vassals would unleash terrorist attacks and disruption of Middle Eastern oil would drive prices over $200 per barrel, crushing the American economy.
  • A showdown on the debt ceiling and/or fiscal cliff results in a stock market crash, derailing the pitiful fledgling recovery created by Ben Bernanke’s QE to infinity measures.
  • A tipping point is reached with regards to the amount of debt that can be accumulated by our Federal, State and Local governments. A cascade of defaults could lead to a loss of faith in the U.S. dollar and a surge in interest rates. The defaults and increased interest on the national debt could lead to mass depression or in a worst case scenario – hyperinflation.
  • A large terrorist attack in one or more American cities would cause chaos, panic and fear, leading to more government control over our daily lives. This could trigger a counter response by those fed up with an overbearing government presence.
  • A catastrophic natural disaster or series of natural disasters would reveal the fragile nature of our just in time economic system. A breakdown of our logistical and infrastructure systems would lead to chaos and mass hysteria as the citizens who believed their government leaders would keep them safe, secure, warm, and fed realized it was all a sham. Their leaders were in it for the power and riches, not looking out for the best interests of the common folk.

No one knows for sure what will trigger the next leg down during this Crisis, but I can guarantee you that things will not be getting better in the near future. Don’t believe the mainstream media or politicians who tell us life in the good old U.S. of A will be back to normal in the near future. And those who predict a long slow gentle decline of the American Empire that can be managed by the oligarchs are badly mistaken. That is not how things roll in a Fourth Turning. Transformative change, chaos, desperate measures, and total war will propel our nation through this cataclysmic saeculum and a positive outcome is not assured. An armed conflict – class war, sectional war, religious war, or war for oil – will be waged at some point and fought to the finish. Fourth Turning wars do not end inconclusively. Each Fourth Turning war has resulted in greater destruction and more horrendous numbers of human casualties. The trials and tribulations that await this nation over the next fifteen years will challenge every living generation to play their roles and bravely confront the tasks needed to reach a new High, just as their ancestors did.

“History offers no guarantees. Obviously, things could go horribly wrong – the possibilities ranging from a nuclear exchange to incurable plagues, from terrorist anarchy to high-tech dictatorship. We should not assume that Providence will always exempt our nation from the irreversible tragedies that have overtaken so many others: not just temporary hardship, but debasement and total ruin. Losing in the next Fourth Turning could mean something incomparably worse. It could mean a lasting defeat from which our national innocence – perhaps even our nation – might never recover.” – Strauss & Howe - The Fourth Turning

For those who doubt generational theory and believe history is a linear path of human progress, I would point to the last week of chaos, disarray, government dysfunction, and misery of those who didn’t prepare for Superstorm Sandy, as a prelude to the worst of this Crisis. The lack of preparation by government officials and citizens, death, destruction, panic, anger, helplessness and realization of how fragile our system has become is a perfect analogy to our preparation for this Fourth Turning. The brittleness of our infrastructure and lack of redundancy in our systems has left us vulnerable to any large storm. Building mansions yards from a dangerous unpredictable sea is akin to allowing Wall Street bankers to create interconnected financial derivatives which will ultimately result in a great worldwide flood that will obliterate billions of wealth. Going decades without upgrading our power grid, transportation systems, or storm protection is akin to allowing our unfunded entitlement liabilities to accumulate to such an extreme level that it will be impossible to honor and the coming storm will swamp those depending on those promises. The lack of foresight by citizens in having food, water, and backup sources of power and heat in case of an emergency is akin to the millions of people that have lived the good life in debt up to their eyeballs while never saving for a rainy day or their retirement. When the rainy day arrives they panic and demand to be saved by an inept bureaucratic government.

Winter has arrived. The gathering storm is about to strike. Are you prepared?

“Reflect on what happens when a terrible winter blizzard strikes. You hear the weather warning but probably fail to act on it. The sky darkens. Then the storm hits with full fury, and the air is a howling whiteness. One by one, your links to the machine age break down. Electricity flickers out, cutting off the TV. Batteries fade, cutting off the radio. Phones go dead. Roads become impossible, and cars get stuck. Food supplies dwindle. Day to day vestiges of modern civilization – bank machines, mutual funds, mass retailers, computers, satellites, airplanes, governments – all recede into irrelevance. Picture yourself and your loved ones in the midst of a howling blizzard that lasts several years. Think about what you would need, who could help you, and why your fate might matter to anybody other than yourself. That is how to plan for a saecular winter. Don’t think you can escape the Fourth Turning. History warns that a Crisis will reshape the basic social and economic environment that you now take for granted.” – Strauss & Howe - The Fourth Turning


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Mon, 11/05/2012 - 18:12 | 2949957 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture



and the prophet asks you: do you vote for blue cancer or red cancer? both are EQUALLY malignant. both want you dead, but not before they ravage you. 








Mon, 11/05/2012 - 18:12 | 2949969 camaro68ss
camaro68ss's picture

Doomsday Dates are nothing but a dick tease

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 18:29 | 2950021 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

I always vote against every sitting congress critter and president up for reelection except this time. I'm still voting against every sitting congress critter, but I live in Florida as a registered Republican and a Ron Paul supporter, I'm voting for Obama for president in revenge for what the GOP did to me and the Ron Paul crew.

Besides, the Progressers are mathematically challenged and need to re-learn their math lessons, when the complete and total economic collapse of the USA happens, that is a 100% mathematical certainty, on Obama.

The left wing TV media demonized the Tea Party movement, the right TV media demonized the Occupy movement, and effectively shut down both. Virtually no one protested during the two political conventions because they got the message from the USA police state.

Both movements should come together and have one Constitutional Rights Movement.

I just thank the Creator for the complete and total economic collapse of the USA that is a 100% mathematical certainty, if nothing else, that will solve most of our problems.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 18:47 | 2950035 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

Will A Prophet Assume Command?

Sure, be with you in a sec!

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 18:54 | 2950093 prains
prains's picture

Will a PROFIT Assume Command?


I believe is the central problem to your question. Unmitigated greed in the form of kleptofascist oligcorptocracy is the new Prophet of Profit all you need is to bring your bowl for another serving

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 18:59 | 2950109 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

Yeah, so long as you "bring your bowl for another serving" in this manner:

Fuck. That. Shit.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 19:43 | 2950252 flacon
flacon's picture

This is too funny:


Baraq Obama is the Blacq jesus:



Mon, 11/05/2012 - 20:08 | 2950330 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture


Mon, 11/05/2012 - 21:14 | 2950462 bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

this article has got be the epitome of doomer porn.

if anyone out there is left and hasn't yet succumbed to the hemlock they felt compelled to drink after reading it - congrats and don't worry.    i am sure a new world is ending tome will be out very soon that those that croaked will be missing out on but you will be privvy to.     

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 21:53 | 2950573 I am a Man I am...
I am a Man I am Forty's picture

fear doom fear doom fear doom.........these guys think they are nostrafuckingdamus, worst case scenario everyone moves into the glut of houses that were built in the housing bubble and plants food in their front and back yards, problem fucking solved.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:02 | 2950597 spinone
spinone's picture

Anyone who tells you they can predict the future is delusional or selling you something.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:09 | 2950771 Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

Delusional, eh? The future is predictable in that it's what the deluded masses least expect:

As for a prophet assuming can this be by popular vote when the masses love being lied to and hate being told the truth?  If a prophet is truthful, then he will be popular disdained.  Hence, my plight:

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:56 | 2950857 Cosimo de Medici
Cosimo de Medici's picture

Best of luck in your endeavor, but realize nobody has been able to pull off your type of scam since John Smith came up with that wonderfully delicious name of "Moroni".  The species is sort of propheted-out.

Oh wait a minute!  You're actually serious, aren't you?

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 00:55 | 2950970 Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

Recently I have embraced Winter and I find that, if you dress warm enough and have a safe harbor, walking in snowstorms can be a lot of fun.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 01:02 | 2950982 redpill
redpill's picture

I'm only happy when it rains anyway.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 03:30 | 2951105 Ctrl_P
Ctrl_P's picture

I upped you redpill - one of the best albums ever written.

and ZH is a mirror to my own chaotic soul.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 08:13 | 2951230 Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

I think you mean Joseph Smith:

And to think one of his followers might be made America's President tomorrow. Quite the scam?

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 02:30 | 2951065 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Anyone who tells you they can predict the future is delusional or selling you something.


I knew you were going to say, you sound like a man who could use some additional life insurance; just let me wrap up this sale to these Unicorns over here....

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 06:43 | 2951175 WarriorClass
WarriorClass's picture

If you've ever wondered why half the people in this country vote for commies or statists, consider this: Over half of the population of the United States are immigrants, or the children of immigrants, that came here since the Immigration Reform Act of 1965. If you think that Europeans or third worlders have or can assume American values, then you haven't spent much time with them.

THE most important single issue facing the U.S. is its post-1965 immigration disaster, both legal and illegal. The bipartisan Permanent Government is literally Electing A New People and new values. Among other problems caused by this utterly selfish and irresponsible policy—immiseration of the working class, cultural dispossession, linguistic balkanization, increased crime, overpopulation, etc. The U.S., as it has been known to history, will simply cease to exist within the lives of children now born.  The writing is on the wall.  Immigrants, black people and hispanics are electing Obama types into office in Federal, State and Local elections. How's that diversity working for you America?

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 07:27 | 2951197 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Immigrants, black people and hispanics are electing Obama types into office in Federal, State and Local elections. How's that diversity working for you America?


The good thing might be that Romney gets elected. By this sentence, he would be by good 'american' people.

The writing is on the wall.

It has been on it since 1776, July, 4th.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:57 | 2950840 rambo1028
rambo1028's picture

Greed is what got us here. Greed to the point and in the hands of so few has lead our country and society to the edge of a cliff if not over.... Greed doesn't just go away. In Utopia maybe things would be that easy but in the real world things are going to be much, much more difficult to solve and it's not always going to be pretty.


You all know the deal...


 Prepared bitchez!


edited to add: I realize we ARE going over the cliff...I meant that right now we are nowhere near the bottom...we only have 2 wheels hanging over the cliff. Today is going to look like paradise once we get over the cliff and land in the valley.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 08:16 | 2951242 Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

Petty selfishness might be a better term for what Americans suffer from than "greed". JMHO.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:05 | 2950606 Grifter
Grifter's picture

Saw "Fourth Turning" in the summary on main page & knew it was Quinn.  I've seen woodpeckers go to town on trees with less velocity & determination than Quinn does with his continual leg humping of this book. 

We get it.  You love this goddamn book.  NASA can see your shimmering boner from space every time you open the book or sniff the friggin binding. 

I recognize I'm not contributing anything to this discussion.  I'll go flog myself now.

EDIT - I'll try to contribute.  Prepping is important; but being singularly obsessed with impending chaos and doom is unhealthy.  Prep, but try to enjoy life when & where you can.  Walk away from ZH for a bit.  Go to a local watering hole & strike up a conversation with a stranger.  Play with your kids/grandkids.  Screw your spouse and/or mistress in new & exciting ways.  But FFS, prepping doesn't need to = zombie apocalypse obsession.

Off to flog myself now...

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:26 | 2950663 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

thanks for the humour,

We get it.  You love this goddamn book.  NASA can see your shimmering boner from space every time you open the book or sniff the friggin binding.

and your edit: suggestions, definitely worth more than an upvote at ZH.

the most important  prep is your mind.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 00:01 | 2950876 rambo1028
rambo1028's picture

Very well said CA.... I have nothing to add. :)

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 01:09 | 2950991 redpill
redpill's picture

I've read enough about this book on ZH alone to know it's 1/3rd doomer porn, 1/3rd interesting historical insight, and 1/3rd manipulating facts to fit circumstances.  I don't know if the middle third will be quite enough to ever get me to read it cover to cover.

Oddly enough, the most common financial disclosure offers a credible (and far more succinct) counterpoint:


Past performance does not indicate future results.


Or, in the parlance of our times:


"God damn you Walter! You fuckin’ asshole! Everything’s a fuckin’ travesty with you, man! And what was all that shit about Vietnam? What the FUCK, has anything got to do with Vietnam? What the fuck are you talking about?"


Yes humanity has faced various clusterfucks in the past and will face them in the future.  How you want to fit these events into your own cyclical calendar is up to you, but without specifics you really don't wind up sounding much different than a guest on Coast-to-Coast AM.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 02:32 | 2951071 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Awww, fuck it Dude. Let's go bowling.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 07:20 | 2951193 blown income
Tue, 11/06/2012 - 00:47 | 2950962 tsx500
tsx500's picture

@Grifter you had me at 'shimmering boner'

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:02 | 2950750 Yardfarmer
Yardfarmer's picture

too funny!

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:14 | 2950781 a growing concern
a growing concern's picture

Agree with your suggestions.  Prudence demands being prepared for the difficulties that will certainly come, but if you aren't able to enjoy your life in the meanwhile, is there really much point in "surviving"?  I'm off to find "new and exciting ways"...

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 06:36 | 2951168 Disenchanted
Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:40 | 2950800 Cosimo de Medici
Cosimo de Medici's picture

What you say!

Quinn writes well, indeed very well, but as you say, that damn book.  Shouldn't we be on the 5th Turning by now?  Somebody bump the needle! (Old guys and audiophiles please explain to the youngsters and iPod crowd)

I note the tenor of the discourse has gotten more, well, discordant.  One might say this is because nothing is changing, and I suppose that is correct.  I believe, however, "nothing is changing" means more that the perpetual preppers are getting on in years and some are beginning to realize they are not going to see the world collapse.  They are going to pass on into nothingness with a couple stacks of shiny metal, more ammunition than was used in Bull Runs I and II, enough freeze dried turkey tetrazini to have fed Biafra---and they will have bitched and moaned about the same things, ad nauseum, for the last few decades of what must have been a bile-filled, miserable existence.  I can imagine all the yard sales as the clock stops on the typical 50-60 year old Zerohedge belly-acher:  stacks of stacks, all being passed on by a surviving spouse ("I knew he was an idiot!") so that someone else can spend his all-too-brief moment-of-being in continuous angst and bitterness.

So many here post and contribute yet another link to yet another injustice or conspiracy or "proof" of some grand scheme...all to what end?  Grief and collective impotence.  It's always a shrill scream in the dark:  "fuck Bernanke, fuck Geithner, fuck Dimon....blah blah blah".  If that venting lets off steam, fine, but the steam just builds again.  Over and over and over.  At some point---since NO ONE is ever going to be point man in the uprising except in his private fantasies---let it go.  Change what can be changed, but accept what will never ever change.  Prep as a precaution, but gear more towards Sandys than Zombies.  One is likely to happen, the other......forgetaboutit.

Learn to smile and laugh in the face of what life is and has always been.  The much hated Ray Dalio---who isn't hated around these parts save for career politician Ron Paul and HF manager (albeit PM lover) Eric Sprott?---, in a recent interview, reminded anyone who was willing to listen that we all believe what we think and what we experience is new and novel, when in fact it has all happened in one way or another since time began, and will happen again and again until time ends.  Deal with it.

Before anyone argues that I'm "giving up", how many Bastilles have YOU stormed lately?  None, and none of you ever will.  It all ends eventually, but with a whimper, not a bang.  None of us is going to see it.

Finally, for those keeping score at home, the answer is two hours and fifteen minutes.



Tue, 11/06/2012 - 00:50 | 2950958 tsx500
tsx500's picture


Tue, 11/06/2012 - 01:13 | 2951002 in4mayshun
in4mayshun's picture

Ya, cause "happy thoughts" worked out so well for all the other former world powers

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 18:38 | 2950039's picture


I live in Florida as a registered Republican and a Ron Paul supporter, I'm voting for Obama for president in revenge for what the GOP did to me and the Ron Paul crew.


That ought to teach a lesson to those who claim that a vote for Johnson or a write in for Paul is really a vote for Obama. You're showing them what an actual vote for Obama looks like!

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 19:09 | 2950144 Zer0head
Zer0head's picture

Right on Crockett

you are taking to heart precisely what Barack said yesterday

Voting is the best revenge

(of course I always try to employ revenge in such a way that I don't get a face full of shit when I throw it at the fan)

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 19:13 | 2950158 Hi Ho Silver
Hi Ho Silver's picture

Fuck Ron Paul and all his whiney bitchez!

He lost. Get the fuck over it already.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 19:24 | 2950197's picture

That's the way to convince folks to vote for Romney! No danger of making even more Paul fans pull the Obama lever for laughs.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 19:33 | 2950229 Hi Ho Silver
Hi Ho Silver's picture

I'm not trying to convince folksof anything.

Ron Paul couldn't win a straw poll without buying it and his supporters can't even muster enough support to win a local election in Ron Paul's district.

So who the fuck cares who they vote for?

Insignificance materialized. Boo-fucking-hoo.


Mon, 11/05/2012 - 19:50 | 2950271's picture

If that's the way you view things then you better be prepared for a possible Romney loss to the Kenyan Muslim. Such an outcome will prove by your own criteria that white Republican Christians are insignificant whiners and that the Koran is in its ascendency. You'll have nobody to blame but your boo-hooing self.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 20:27 | 2950366 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Fox News and the MSM should have chosen a better Republican candidate for me to select, among their chosen two presidential candidates.

Revenge is a dish best served cold.

I'm going thru my sample ballot now, researching who I have to vote against, researching issues, and marking my selection to make it easier for me tomorrow.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 21:21 | 2950502 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

Michael, I wrote you a note down below. Read it if you get a chance.


Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:24 | 2950661 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture


I asked Romney to give me something, anything, so I could bring myself to vote for him.

I asked to have canceled the TSA 1.4 billion hollow point bullet order.

I asked to have abolished NDAA.

I asked if he would abolish the anti-patriot act for me.

He gave me nothing I could vote for, he refused every request.

Fuck Mitt Romney in Florida where it really counts!

An economic collapse is guaranteed anyway, so whoever is president doesn't matter anyway. 

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:29 | 2950675 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture



Posting the same stupid crap over and over -


I asked to have ...

I asked to have ...

I asked ... 





Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:42 | 2950706's picture



  • Anaphora is the repetition of a word or phrase at the beginning of every clause. It comes from the Greek phrase, "Carrying up or Back".[4]
Example: "We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills, we shall never surrender." (Winston Churchill)
Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:56 | 2950859 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

Crockett, you are a splendid fellow! This from a guy that never even liked Churchill. You have intelligently and thoughtfully provided some affirmation to a young idealistic Paul supporter who is getting savaged by the hyenas. I salute you.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 00:37 | 2950912's picture

Rock n roll, my friend. And long live Ron!

There are many examples of anaphora apart from Churchill. It occurs in the Bible and Walt Whitman and lots of other places as well. The Churchill example was nice because he's a right winger's dream and he used anaphora (which Ident 7777 says is stoopid) to great effect. It probably went over Ident's head but I enjoyed it nonetheless.


More anaphora with which to upset and confuse Ident 7777:


Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 02:36 | 2951075 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Ya know, from the conspiracy porn I've consulted, the New Testament was written by the Romans to tone down and geld those crazy religious zealots. Thus an eye for an eye became, turn the other cheek, man!

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 08:08 | 2951231 Pope Clement
Pope Clement's picture

Herodian/Roman agent provocateur what could possibly go wrong with that bitchez

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 09:06 | 2951345 SelfGov
SelfGov's picture

There is a lot of good in generational theory but some of the interpretations require a bit of work.

Mitt Romney as a prophet that the majority of American's will stand behind on a moral basis is just plain stupid.

Everything Romney represents is for appearances only.

He is a shill.

He is a liar.

He is about as bright as a ten watt bulb in a two watt socket.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 00:24 | 2950933 object_orient
object_orient's picture

If you don't compare the two (and only two!) candidates, how will you know who to hold your nose and vote for?


I wrote in Ron Paul because I'm not a mouthbreather.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:41 | 2950829 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

A collapse might be when who is president does matter the most.

Mitt couldn't help Akin in Missouri one iota. (Luckily DeMint and Rand Paul's PAC stepped in, probably too late, though) The Republican Senatorial Committee, I believe, couldn't help Akin's campaign, because of potential backlash from the mainstream media. The MSM tried to link Akin to Romney as it was. Listen to how insipid the contents of Mitt's speeches are because of an adversarial  mainstream media looking for something to exploit. The true love of country shines through, though.

The landmines that must be negotiated to get where Mitt is trying to go are treacherous. I don't know how he could have kept a coalition together if he had embraced the Ron Paul supporters. He certainly would not have gotten any money from the wealthy Zionist Jews. Obama has a lock on the liberal secular Jews. Machiavellian? Maybe. Without Jewish money, you ain't mounting a national campaign. I don't like it. Just the way it is. If I was loaded, I'd look out for my interests with large donations, too. Mitt sincere? I think so. He loves God, family, and country. I don't know about the other guy. One of them will be the next president. I'd love to be voting for Ron Paul, but it wasn't in the cards. Rand is pretty sly and seems to know how to play the game. I have high hopes for him. Let's just hope that his followers don't think he's a sell out when he does things that must be done to get ahead in the twisted system.

Arminius was this German kid the Romans captured. They sent him to school and he wound up receiving military training. With his skills, he trained his fellow Germans and they later wiped out a couple of legions. Arminius prevented the Romans from conquering Germania. Maybe it takes a plutocrat to battle the plutocrats. Rockefeller kicked Theodore Roosevelt's ass. Teddy was in over his head. Mitt Romney probably knows how to take on the banksters and plutocrats. The only question is, does he want to? Or will he come to a point where he feels he has to because of his faith and love of country.

My scheme is to support the Constitution Party at mid-terms. We need a third choice. Or more. I believe this election is too important to throw a vote away. With Romney, it is still America. We live to fight another day. Obama, maybe not recognizable as the land of the free in four years, if his term ever ended.

Rand Paul loves the band Rush. Line from a Rush song something like "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."

If you have to hold your nose and choose the lesser of perceived evils, at least you get a say in the outcome. Mitt threw Ron a bone at the convention. Something about gold backed money or something like that. Even that pathetic little bone contained considerable risk for Mitt from the savage MSM. Like Obama said, "I can be more flexible after the election."

A Paulian running for city council. I hope he wins. I get to vote for him. One Paulian already on the council. Most precincts here have Paulians installed as Precinct Committee persons. Ron Paul inspired us with a run for the top. But maybe we need to build it from the grassroots bottom. It will take time and patience.


Tue, 11/06/2012 - 07:58 | 2951223 MillionDollarBoner_
MillionDollarBoner_'s picture

U lie down with dogs...u get fleas...

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:06 | 2950604 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture





"Fox News and the MSM should have chosen a better Republican candidate for me to select, among their chosen two presidential candidates."


Mind-numbing, simply f*cking mind-numbing.


And that is not a good thing ...


On an other note, are you allowed to breed at your intellectual level? Once upon a time they used to remove your ... oh never mind.



Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:59 | 2950836 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

Not everyone is jaded and cynical. There are still some true believers and idealists left, thank God. When you have a lot of yourself invested, you can get hurt bad. Don't let it blow your little mind.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 00:08 | 2950898 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

@michael: while you're at it put your buttplug back in. You're getting shit on me.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 20:41 | 2950415 Hi Ho Silver
Hi Ho Silver's picture

"Such an outcome will prove by your own criteria that white Republican Christians are insignificant whiners and that the Koran is in its ascendency."

What the fuck are you babbling about, my fucking criteria?

And you never miss an opportunity to claim ascendacy of islam you lame ass arab ball licking cocksucker.

Fuck Ron Paul. Fuck his whiney supporters. Fuck mohammed and his devil inspired koo-koo-koran. And fuck you.



America! Fuck yeah!!!

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 20:47 | 2950430's picture

You said that those who lose elections are insignificant whiners. Your team could lose the election tomorrow. Hell, you already lost to the Kenyan Muslim once before. Do the math, genius.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 21:25 | 2950509 Hi Ho Silver
Hi Ho Silver's picture

Read my posts ass clown. Nowhere did I stereotype those who lose elections as insignificant whiners.

I was quite specific, Ron Paul supporters are the biggest bunch of whiners I've ever seen. Whiners because they lost? NO. Whiners because Rob Paul NEVER had any chance of winning the GOP nomination but they rattle on and on and on about how poorly their midget was treated.

The material insignificance of their vote is apparent. If their vote was not significant enough to shift the GOP primaries it's damn sure not significant to shift the election.

Tuff nuts.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 21:45 | 2950553's picture

Romney NEVER had a chance to beat Obama. Ron Paul polled well with Independents and took a majority of the under thirty vote. These are the groups that put Obama over the top in 2008. Paul also appealed to disaffected Democrats. Romney appeals to no one.

And of course you can't alter the fact that Obama beat the Republican nominee in 2008. McCain NEVER had a chance to win that one. And I'm sure you have NEVER whined about the outcome. Nothing but praise for the Kenyan Muslim from you, right?

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:03 | 2950603 clymer
clymer's picture

Crocket, don't argue with this donkey. He's a clueless fucking shill

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:12 | 2950622's picture

But I enjoy it. It may be a personal failing but I really do.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:50 | 2950839 crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

The advice I try to follow:  Never argue with an idiot.
He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Unless, of course, you just flat out enjoy it--which you profess to do. 

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:58 | 2950866's picture

With the Greater Depression and all we have to make our own fun.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:12 | 2950623 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture



clymer clueless II?


-1 for same reason I gave Crockett a downrate

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:11 | 2950619 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture




-1 for being an idiot on the eve of a LANDSLIDE.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:13 | 2950629's picture

+1 for your endless stream of comedy.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:31 | 2950681 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture


-1 Thanks, but you-know-the-drill ('no thanks')

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:03 | 2950601 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Listen Hi Ho. Just because your dick is shorter than my thumb doesn't mean you can blame every person that attempts to fight against the banking platform 'whiners'.Take some viagra, go back home and ask the plumber to get off your wife so she'll give you another chance.


Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:09 | 2950610 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture



Hi Ho Silver:


" I was quite specific, Ron Paul supporters are the biggest bunch of whiners I've ever seen. "


+1 Agree. The word to describe them used to be 'pussies' but that became un-PC at some point ...

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:15 | 2950632's picture

Yeah, I'm a pussy. And you're a dick. Because you are what you eat.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:23 | 2950654 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Is this Trav coming back? LOL.

All we need is GeneMarchbanks and bob dabolina and we're back up to full speed.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:33 | 2950684 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

no LOL ... but I miss Trav too -sob-

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:24 | 2950658 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Quite aLOT of dicks around here lately...

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:49 | 2950720 Hi Ho Silver
Hi Ho Silver's picture

And lots of jism on your lips.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 08:30 | 2951273 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

That's the best you could come up with?

Public school ed..geez

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:32 | 2950814 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

So you are classifying a quite substantial group of US military and special operations group people as "pussies".... Interesting.... Tell me more about how these people are pussies, while you are jerking off to midget porn, massaging your overinflated ego mr. keyboard commando. Don't worry, I don't judge. I'm libertarian.

At some point it's not about the odds anymore.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:45 | 2950833's picture


At some point it's not about the odds anymore.



Tue, 11/06/2012 - 00:46 | 2950959 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

Here's an image that makes the point:

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 20:50 | 2950437 runlevel
runlevel's picture

Its funny to read comments by morons with blinders on. Oh and Fuck you dumbshit.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 21:44 | 2950546 redrob25
redrob25's picture

Don´t respond to Hi Ho. He´s either a banker bot or a CIA flunkie whose sole intent is to sow anger on the boards. Recognize the generic inflammatory rhetoric an learn to ignore it. 

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 21:49 | 2950565's picture

But berating the willfully ignorant amuses me.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:21 | 2950648 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

A while ago I had the opportunity to talk with a grunt that was on leave prior to being shipped out to the ME. I asked him what he thought about the loss of the Bill of Rights with the Patriot Act et el. His response?

"Man, it seams to me as long as I have the freedom to walk down to the store at midnight and buy some beers, that's freedom to me."

He was dead serious. Some peeps are blinded by what they need to believe in to support their sorry ass. No sympathies.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:33 | 2950682's picture

I think that's sad. It's likely that such individuals would abjure my sympathy, nevertheless...

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:50 | 2950722 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

can't go out and buy some beers, eh?

I'll reserve my empathy for those on the receiving end of the military industrial complex he volunteered to serve.

Depleted Uranium Weapons: Dead Babies in Iraq and Afghanistan Are No Joke

The horrors of the US Agent Orange defoliation campaign in Vietnam, about which I wrote on Oct. 15, could ultimately be dwarfed by the horrors caused by the depleted uranium weapons which the US began using in the 1991 Gulf War (300 tons), and which it has used much more extensively–and in more urban, populated areas–in the Iraq War and the now intensifying Afghanistan War.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:00 | 2950738's picture

There is no shortage of victims in the world. A moment of pity costs me nothing although I suppose that represents it's true value in the scheme of things.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:02 | 2950754 Hi Ho Silver
Hi Ho Silver's picture

19,879 deadly terror attacks carried out by islamic terrorists since 9/11, no shortage of vitims.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:25 | 2950786's picture

Over 650,000 dead in the war which America started over imaginary Iraqi WMD. No shortage of victims.

The second survey[2][3][4] published on 11 October 2006, estimated 654,965 excess deaths related to the war, or 2.5% of the population, through the end of June 2006. The new study applied similar methods and involved surveys between May 20 and July 10, 2006.[4] More households were surveyed, allowing for a 95% confidence interval of 392,979 to 942,636 excess Iraqi deaths. 601,027 deaths (range of 426,369 to 793,663 using a 95% confidence interval) were due to violence. 31% (186,318) of those were attributed to the Coalition, 24% (144,246) to others, and 46% (276,472) unknown. The causes of violent deaths were gunshot (56% or 336,575), car bomb (13% or 78,133), other explosion/ordnance (14%), air strike (13% or 78,133), accident (2% or 12,020), and unknown (2%).


A half million Iraqi children age five and younger dead from sanctions which the US Secretary of State said was "worth it." No shortage of victims.


Thirty four American sailors killed and 171 injured by the two hour attack on the USS Liberty by Israeli jets and speedboats. No shortage of victims.


The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and Israeli Navy motor torpedo boats, on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War.[3] The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members (naval officers, seamen, two Marines, and one civilian), wounded 171 crew members, and severely damaged the ship.[4] At the time, the ship was in international waters north of the Sinai Peninsula, about 25.5 nmi (29.3 mi; 47.2 km) northwest from the Egyptian city of Arish.[1][5]


Ninety one killed and forty six injured in the Zionist bombing of the King David Hotel which remains the most deadly terrorist attack in Palestine/Israel to this day. No shortage of victims.


The King David Hotel bombing was an attack carried out on 22 July 1946 by the militant terrorist right-wing Zionist underground organization the Irgun on the British administrative headquarters for Palestine, which was housed in the King David Hotel in Jerusalem.[1][2][3] 91 people of various nationalities were killed and 46 were injured.[4]

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:55 | 2950854 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

You are really a piece of work Hi Ho. Go back to your cave, preferably to die from toxic CNN reviews.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:15 | 2950782 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

I'm genuinely sorry that amrkns continue to support wars by supporting enlistment as a job opportunity, calling it "patriotism" or "serving the country" - when for decades now the truth has been available to those willing to seek it out.

if anyone truly wanted to stop this shit happening globally, they would STOP with the flag waving, and STOP respecting uniformed armed occupation of hundreds of bases globally, they would tell themselves the truth, and then tell others, about what is being done in "their name" globally, and here in their "homeland" and then maybe some people would stop volunteering to kill others, in their own nationstates no less.

it's tiresome and childish, and time to grow up to home truths.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 00:01 | 2950796's picture

I understand but those who have been broken by the system, whether through the carrot or the stick or the classroom, are victims too. When individuals learn that they are better served by organizing around creativity and enterprise rather than by maintaining a false order through violence we'll see far fewer victims of all kinds.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 00:12 | 2950905 rambo1028
rambo1028's picture

I had no idea.... I just read about the money going to vietnam to clean up our mess yesterday. I can't believe the things they are doing in my name.... and they take money from my labor to pay for it and borrow money from china and my childrens future to do it. God Bless the good ole USA....fml

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 00:26 | 2950937's picture

These folks help Vietnamese people effected by Agent Orange. The defects can be quite horrific. The group was founded by an American Vietnam vet who has since died. They could really use some support from anyone who can afford it.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 01:03 | 2950986 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture


I've read some horrific reports over the years about Fallujah, and how 45% of babies are born with unbelievable "congenital birth defects" :

Hair samples, taken from residents in Fallujah who had lived there since 1991, were found to contain trace elements of poisonous metals, the report stated.

Findings showed that levels of lead were five times higher in the hair of children with birth defects than in other children, suggesting hair is a “bio-marker of exposure.”

Mercury levels in children were also found to be six times higher, while children in Basra had three times more lead in their teeth than children living in non-affected cities.

Miscarriage, toxic levels of lead and mercury contamination and staggering numbers of birth defects including congenital heart defects, brain dysfunctions and abnormal limbs were recorded at a high rate, posing a new threat to the bombarded city of Fallujah.

this genocide has been ongoing in ALL "gulf wars" and was/is denied repeatedly by the military, so as not to have to pay out for veteran disabilities no doubt, and of course, it would put a damper on volunteers perhaps? - "Gulf War Syndrome"?  ask Dr. Doug Rokke,

The War Against Ourselves An interview with Major Doug Rokke by Sunny Miller


this may be one of the reasons why the suicide rate in the military is currently so high,

The current Army suicide rate seven months into this year is 29 deaths-per-100,000, far surpassing last year's rate of about 23 deaths-per-100,000, says Bruce Shahbaz, an Army analyst. Those rates compare with a 2009 civilian rate — the latest available data — of 18.5 for a demographically similar population.

another subject rarely spoken of, yet persistent,

According to current Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, some 19,000 sexual assaults are alleged to have occurred in the military last year alone, but because of fears of retaliation, only 20 percent of those are reported.

I bring these topics up because it's way past time for people to stop enabling the myths and outright lies of war, particularly the wars that are ongoing, corporate profiteering, soul-destroying threats to humanity and the environment we're left to live in.

we all need to tell ourselves, and then others, the truth about these wars.  because we're about to get dragged into more.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 02:11 | 2951048 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

There is no greater slave than one who believes himself to be free.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:38 | 2950693 Hi Ho Silver
Hi Ho Silver's picture

STFU! Banker bot or CIA flunkie?! Is that the best argument you fuckwads have? What a bunch of losers.

I'm a liberty loving, G_d fearing citizen of the United States of America born and raised right here Ron Paul's Congressional District exercising my 1st Amendment Right to call Ron Paul supporters anything I damn well please!

Go somewhere else if Freedom of Speech is too damn much for you to handle tranny bitch.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:01 | 2950749's picture

Actually, you're the straight man although you don't seem to be in on the joke.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:39 | 2950823 my puppy for prez
my puppy for prez's picture

"'m a liberty loving, G_d fearing"

Ahhh, so you're from the Tribe...

How do you think I guessed?  lol

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 00:52 | 2950964 Hi Ho Silver
Hi Ho Silver's picture

I'm from the tribe of dirt poor farmers moron.

Let's see in this thread I've been called uneducated, a shill, banker front man, cia operative, and now a Jew.

Some of you folks just need to get a grip and understand that not everyone agrees with you, and that's all there is to it. It's not because they're stupid, or ignorant, or misinformed (or a jew banker shill cia operartive). They just have a damn different opinion.

Ron Paul is a Libertarian. Ron Paul ran in Republican primaries. Ron Paul lost. Why is it such a damn big surprise? Ron Paul is not some lilly white flower of the valley. He's a fucking politician. His abuse of the various straw polls is well documented. Although I liked some of his platform that shit and his whining about not being treated farly, all the while not playing fairly, turned me off. That and the fact that I live in Ron Paul's district and he has accomplished squat for me in all his years in office.

If you're a Ron Paul supporter and you are going to vote for Bronco Bama for revenge all I can say is 'Go for it!'.  It says more about you than it does about me.

Piss on the moon. But Bernanke must be stopped.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 01:20 | 2951007's picture

On the night of the Iowa caucuses we were initially told that Santorum won. Then we were told that Romney won. Then two weeks later we were told that Santorum won. Six months later we learned that Ron Paul had won 23 out of 28 Iowa delegates. Nothing untoward about that. It's not like essential momentum was being funneled to somebody else.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 02:15 | 2951052 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

As a Paul supporter, I am glad he didn't win. This listing ship is goin' down. We wouldn't want a libertarian in charge when it does. Let the blame fall where it belongs....Statists to the left, and Statists to the right.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 07:18 | 2951191 clymer
clymer's picture

Hi Ho, don't you ever walk away from that keyboard? Funny to watch your grammar deteriorate with each beer. run along, little boy

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 10:05 | 2951457 Hi Ho Silver
Hi Ho Silver's picture

I'm a teetotaler you twit.

When you don't have an argument all you can do name call.

I pity you small minded fools who can't tolerate a differing opinion.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 06:48 | 2951177 Random
Random's picture

"Let's see in this thread I've been called uneducated, a shill, banker front man, cia operative, and now a Jew."

The giveaway is the spelling of God m8, are you that dense to believe that talmudic shit of misspelling the name, in ENGLISH?! Why aren't you using "the name"? Anyways, always a good indicator to spot your lot. The beauty of it all is that you cannot write God due to superstition but you cannot use any of your euphemism since the names are too non descriptive for the target audience, aka the goym...Talmud is a bitch, isn’t it? Can you answer the last question? LMAO, head about to explode huh?



Tue, 11/06/2012 - 08:11 | 2951233 Precious
Precious's picture

It's like playing russian roulette.

Gad, Ged, Gid, God, Gud or Gyd.  

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 20:51 | 2950440 imbrbing
imbrbing's picture

Ron Paul can't win because there are to many IDIOTS out there that couldn't vote their way out of saving there own a$$e$. Not that I am advocating voting at

this time, it is way overated.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 21:21 | 2950503 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Pretty tough to get around the fraud and chicanery perpetrated by the RNC during the primaries. No fuckin' way will I vote for Ro-money after that shit.

I wrote in Ron Paul on my mail in ballot and feel damn good about it. Fuck Ro-money and fuck O'bomb-a and their respective supporters.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 21:30 | 2950516 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

Why don't you just light yourself on fire or hang yourself to make your bitter point? At least cut off your nose to spite your face. Idiot.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 21:51 | 2950569's picture

You're right. He should have voted for someone he thinks is bad for America. It's the patriotic thing to do.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 00:12 | 2950906 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

That gets green even if at my expense.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 00:19 | 2950921 rambo1028
rambo1028's picture

Crockett is on a roll tonight! lol 

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:27 | 2950669 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

v&b- I think your gang leader is calling you to muster everyone for the nightly beer pong contest.

You might win your sister back.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 00:09 | 2950902 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

LOL You are a funny son of a bitch! But you ain't gettin the green (I already regret the last one I gave you)cuz I'm a poor sport.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:50 | 2950717 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture






Pretty tough to get around the fraud and chicanery perpetrated by the RNC during the primaries. No fuckin' way will I vote for Ro-money after that shit. "


And just think - you were only facing REPUBLICANS at the RNC convention! 




Pussies would have had your arses hand to ya in the general if you couldn't even handle The Stupid Party (the repubs if I have to spell it OUT for you)   



Tue, 11/06/2012 - 00:39 | 2950950 object_orient
object_orient's picture

Too true. When RP was doing well in the early primaries the Obama worshippers were already getting their "Ron Paul's a racist" talking points straight.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 01:34 | 2951023 Larry Dallas
Larry Dallas's picture

I really find it hard to believe folks would vote for Ron Paul anyway so Obama could get in again.

Isn't that cutting your nose off to spite your face type of methodology?

I mean really. You guys are kooks. Its like watching Grandpa Simpson (Homer's father) act out here.


Mon, 11/05/2012 - 21:19 | 2950499 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture


You know, I was a Ron Paul delegate to the county convention. I donated a lot of money that I really couldn't afford, as well. I donated to his PAC, too. You are right. We were mistreated, as was Dr. Paul. I was pretty sore for awhile, but I got over it. As a Paul supporter, you must have a great love for the Constitution. I do, too. It might surprise you that Mitt Romney does, too. A lot of cynical bastards are making a lot of twisted and ignorant comments down below, concerning Romney's faith. Here's some more of Mitt's faith: Maybe you already know that the Mormons consider the US Constitution a sacred document, divinely inspired by the Creator. They will defend the US Constitution to their death, if necessary. I believe that you would, too, if it came to it.

I don't blame you for being angry. I also don't believe that you really want a collapse. My avatar, moniker, and my favorite movies are all post-apocalyptic, but I don't think I really want to go there, and I don't think you do, either. I think that you probably love America as much as me, Ron Paul, and yes, Mitt Romney. I implore you to open your heart and listen to some of Mitt's stump speeches. Study his demeanor. Watch the hidden camera videos, posted by a rabid atheist to damage Romney, but do exactly the opposite. The mainstream media ignored Ron Paul, they malign Mitt Romney. As an aside, I always felt that Mitt was the most respectful of the candidates towards Dr. Paul.

I believe Mitt Romney is the best leader possible, for these times. Ron Paul is too frank and earnest, a little frail, and he would have been steamrolled by the Obama machine and horribly ridiculed by the mainstream media. They nearly destroyed Mitt, but he fought his way back, because he's a stronger and better man than they ever imagined. Mitt had to play their neo-con game so that he can become President and lead us out of this mess. You and I would do the same if that is what it took to fulfill our duty and destiny.

In Mitt Romney's words," Cast your vote not for revenge, but for love of country."


Mon, 11/05/2012 - 21:28 | 2950513 kito
kito's picture

please spare us your bleeding heart partisan bullshit......................romney doesnt give a f*ck about the country, he is already in the pockets of his biggest donors....the banking pupeteers. best possible leader for who?? the pentagon machine?.......the banking machine?...................i most assuredly can tell you neither of these bastards are the best possible leader for the majority of citizens in this country.........

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 21:50 | 2950566 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

It looks to me as if he garnered donations where he had to in order to take on the billion dollar Obama machine.

As an aside, I advocate for publicly funded elections, but if Romney had gone that way, we'd be posting on some different article right now. Ever hear of a dude named McCain?

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:19 | 2950642 kito
kito's picture

you are sadly naive, without making the effort to dig deep into romney.

are you aware that romney main economic advisor (as in the brain powering romneys economic view of the world) glenn hubbard openly declared in 2004 that housing busts were a thing of the past? that capital markets made the banking system more stable? again this was romneys genius talking out of his ass in 2004....and romney plans to tap him for fed chairman/treas sec................gee, sounds like romney has surrounded himself with the right guys!! the same ones who caused the train wreck that has become the united states of america..the same ones that obama has surrounded himself since 2008, the same ones george bush jr surrounded himself with before that......

here is romneys main brain in carefully, because if you think romney is the right guy, you are as clueless as his advisors:

are you aware, vic, that 17 of romneys 24 main advisors were bushies???? thats a solid majority of his advisors giving romney the same SHIT ASS ADVICE that they gave bush jr.........WAKE THE FUCK UP!!!! YOU HAVE less than 12 hours..............




Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:36 | 2950690 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture


We've our disagreements on gold but I'm 100% with you on this. Hubbard, Cofer, Hayden and Chertoff? WTF?

These people touting Romney are sadly mistaken, if not delusional. He is surrounded by very dangerous and horribly corrupted people.

ZH deserves better than this kind of dogshit.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:09 | 2950770 kito
kito's picture kids used to sing this when they were young, "round and round is the name of the game, round and round, whats your name?" (fill in the name of every recycled piece of shit partisan political advisor that continues to lead this country into darkness.....)

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:31 | 2950812 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

great posts kito.

continuity of government.  the names and faces can change, colours and sides - the figureheads are there just like "reality teevee" trains minds to see scripted visuals as "real" - it's ALL a big manipulated farce unless one


Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:49 | 2950716 DOT
DOT's picture


Tue, 11/06/2012 - 01:14 | 2951003 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

Always appreciate your posts. Didn't mean to start a brouhaha tonight.

Mea culpa. I plead ignorance. I read a few unflattering blurbs about Hubbard but hoped he would be an exception. I see that I am not reading near enough. I also see Romney is surrounding himself with a nasty bunch. Maybe he just seeks the experienced hands until he gets his sea legs.

I loathed Bush so much that I switched parties, canvassed, and was a precinct captain for Obama in 2008 because McCain seemed like he would be Shrub Jr.

Now you are making a case that Romney is going to be Shrub Jr. instead of the Reagan Jr. that I was hoping for. You are leaving me with no champion to choose. But I work nights and have to go, not knowing how I will vote when I get off work. Maybe I should vote Constitution Party, after all. I thought Romney was a decent man, but a decent man doesn't surround himself with thugs. One of them gets a four year term tomorrow unless some Paul faithless electors can get a monkeywrench in there, somehow. Wouldn't that be something. I don't want four more years of Obama. I should be beaten for the insignificant assistance that I lent him.

Thanks for the links.


Tue, 11/06/2012 - 03:31 | 2951103 tickhound
tickhound's picture

The machine pumps out these candidates and even the best read can be fooled...

Remember Herman Cain people??  Herman FUCKING Cain?  How many dumbasses on zh fell for that shit... touting HERMAN 2012!!!  LMFAO!  And he's a Fed-boy of all things.

No need to study-up on how not to be a sucker.  You'll do just fine always assuming that either moron placed in front of you has but one mission...

To get you to pay for the very expensive and inefficient dildo that's going to be used to fuck you over.

Thank you.  This has been a public service announcement.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 21:28 | 2950514 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Ro-money doesn't know fuckall about the Constitution, and couldn't possibly care less about it. He is every bit the liberty hating statist tyrant that is O'bomb-a.

All the wishful thinking in the world ain't gonna change the fact that we're proper fucked.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:20 | 2950644 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Y'all will have to excuse me for a sec.  I'm feeling nauseated.  Thanks for nothin', Vic.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:42 | 2950710 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

Coldplay - Paradise (4:21)

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:35 | 2950818 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

Dan Le Sac vs. Scroobius Pip    ~    Letter From God

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:22 | 2950649 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture


I asked Romney to give me something, anything, so I could bring myself to vote for him.

I asked to have canceled the TSA 1.4 billion hollow point bullet order.

I asked to have abolished NDAA.

I asked if he would abolish the anti-patriot act for me.

He gave me nothing I could vote for, he refused every request.

Fuck Mitt Romney in Florida where it really counts!

An economic collapse is guaranteed anyway, so whoever is president doesn't matter anyway. 

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:52 | 2950841 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture



HWGA (Here We Go Again) with this crap!


You're retarded! I swear! Posted the same stuff like FOUR times now!



I asked to have ...

I asked to have ...

I asked if ...

He gave me nothing ...



Tue, 11/06/2012 - 00:10 | 2950904 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

I asked that Ident grab a brain...

I asked that Ident grew a pecker..

I asked that Ident wasn't a moron..


Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:01 | 2950746 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Hey V&B, I was a delegate to the AK state convention. I am a staunch fiscal conservative.

On this subject, let me share with you what I shared with everyone one of my fellow 2012 state delegates in AK, the day QE infinity was announced ... and after the delegates were spammed (BCC) with an email on a wholly unrelated subject ...

NOTE: the email thread below starts with my response ...




---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: Faithless Electors

First off, let me commend you for being savy enough to avoid exposing the entire conservative mail list in your solicitation. Unfortunately, you are simply using the mail list which was originally exposed on Aug 9th.

I regret the mood I am in tonight, a historic point in time, so I am going to cut lose because of my love of my country.

As a deeply fiscal conservative, this last cycle has been hell on my conscience. Today, the Federal Reserve announced they will print unlimited amounts of money. I am so deeply saddened that our republic has come to this. It is an old story in history, told over and over, always with the same outcome. To say no more than this is to exercise enormous personal discipline; the currency is the blood of a nation. Our working class people earn their wages in this measure.

If you feel some sort of confidence, attacking any particular conservative group, then I suppose that is for you to embrace. For me, the math is simple arithmetic. Our Federal government spends vastly more money than it takes in as revenue. This has ended every empire in history (that didn't fall to a greater military), and ours will be no different. To clarify, the previous "reserve currencies" that ran the world were, in order from present, Britian, France, Netherlands, Spain, and Portugal. How is that status working out for them?

Republicans are not "entitlement" voters and the reserve currency status is not an entitlement; it is earned by leadership, discipline, and superiority in commerce. Precisely how we are doing any of that on the world stage is beyond me, and a source of great consternation.

And, if you are going to wear the AF on your chest, my closest, personal conservative friend is a Game Cock from SC, grew up on a farm/"dirt poor", and earned his way into an officership with the AF flying B-52s. He retired as an officer. We debated a lot of politics over a lot of beers. He is in FL building F-35s and I miss his happy-hour company (and awesome accent) dearly. You don't understand a'tall.

If you haven't figured it out, most conservatives, these days, aren't happy with the Republican party for a variety of reasons. Do we like Obama? Fsck no, we hate the sum'bitch. I wish Jackie Gleason was here to emphasize that point (hey always said it best).

But, with that said, you can stuff Romney up your ass. Your base doesn't believe you anymore. You are not conservative anymore. Not fiscally. Not religiously. Not honestly. I could rant, but I don't need to do so. You hung your own ass out to dry.

I am BCCing my buddy on this reply. I REALLY look forward to getting down to FL, snacking on some blue crabs, some beer (or scotch), and catching up. But, this "I am conservative" bull shit y'all sell a'int getting bought by me.

The truly sad truth is that Romney gave it up to Obama this cycle. I wish it weren't so, but I think it is. Why? Because if they froze FDR, thawed his ass out, slapped on some tanning lotion, and then ran his ass in front of that fat bitch Hillary then that clone would be our damn president right now. FDR scored three terms you dip shit. Do you know why? He was a populist during a depression. It so pisses me off that Republican leadership is so damn arrogant as to run a "small tent" campaign in this election.

You are either dumb asses or working for the other team!

Ron Paul was NEVER going to win a damn anything this cycle. Just stop with the damn RP crap, OK? Bask in your glow of anti-Paul victory. All he was going to get was a speaking slot, some applause, maybe some camera time, and that was it. That was the best case scenario for RP. Yet, he brought a huge number of voters to the conservative tent ... that the Republican party didn't want.

Did I support Ron Paul? Of course, because he was the ONLY fiscally conservative candidate in the cycle.

Romney, in spite of 100% certain victory, managed to completely alienate the entire RP base. Exactly where in the rules of politics is winning about pissing away voters? All the RP fans are young voters with conservative values. RP is an idea, but it is an idea that resonates with the electorate; an electorate that VOTES. This is the Reagan cycle repeating. And you worthless pieces of shit screwed it up!

This has to be the dumbest damn political move in history. And by political history, I have to trot out the "time line" by which I qualify my previous statement:

Do me a favor. Buy both of those and hang 'em in your office. The republican party leadership managed to single highhandedly wreck this entire election. I am so damn pissed, I can not see straight.



On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 7:18 PM, ... wrote:

    Howdy all –


    My apologies for bothering all of you with this note.  It appears we may have elected a young lady as one of our electors who is publicly not willing to do her sworn duty.


    From an AP article today reprinted in, one Kathleen Miller from Alaska is described as follows:


    Along with the three electors looking at alternatives, Nevada GOP elector Ken Searles said he may vote for Paul as a protest, so long as his vote wouldn’t change the outcome of the election. Another elector, Kathleen Miller in Alaska, said she is planning to vote for Romney but left open the possibility of a Paul vote if the outcome of the election was certain and Republican leaders continued what she called ‘‘shenanigans.’’


    The article describes Paulians elected as Republican members of the Electoral College reneging on their sworn duty and it appears we have one on our hands up here.  The common thread is Ron Paul.  You can find the article at the link below:


    Might be something we want to discuss the weekend of 22 Sept. for if the young lady is not up to doing her sworn duty and is willing to tell AP about it, perhaps she ought to resign and be replaced by someone that will do their duty.  I am a cranky old AF retiree and am silly enough in my old age to believe that one ought to do what they say they were going to do when put into a position of trust by voters.  But that’s just me and I am not nearly as enlightened as the Ron Paul aficionados currently in the party.


    Feel free to call with questions or comments.  Note that I did leave a message with Joe Miller but no response yet.  Cheers –



<signature removed>    



Tue, 11/06/2012 - 00:40 | 2950951 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

I am grateful for the effort that you put into your post. I am curious if there are Paul supporting faithless electors in states that allow an elector to choose any candidate that they wish. I would like to see some Paul electoral votes from states that will not punish the elector.

It was my understanding that the Founders intended for the electors to vote their conscience and that the state laws came later. It would be particularly delicious if a Paul elector could force a tie. I believe that the dissention and spectacle would be good for the Republic.

Wait! Are there enough Paul electors to prevent Romney from reaching 270? If I was one of those electors, I would have been doing some serious conspiring by now.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 02:27 | 2951063 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Damn fine letter, Cooter.  You've expressed what a lot of people "feel" who don't have the words to express themselves.   Most of them would argue that the King's new clothes look great. 

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:26 | 2950801 my puppy for prez
my puppy for prez's picture

If Romney loves the Constitution so much, why is he a big fan of NDAA, Patriot Act, drones, illegal wars, wiretapping mosques and churches (documented on video!), and gun control?

That's some real love, now....

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 00:32 | 2950944 rambo1028
rambo1028's picture

Fuck you ya fucking shill....


I will not vote for a man like mitt....or obama...ever again. 


I will never vote for a leader that I see as bad for the  country....even if that means I might as well of stayed home. 


It's the principle of the matter...

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:10 | 2950616 Grifter
Grifter's picture

So your previous moniker "Michael" must have been banned (because you're a deluded lunatic) and you're back, better than ever.  Swell.  Its moonbats like you that give Florida its reputation for being a cauldron of crazy.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:22 | 2950647 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture







" ... I'm voting for Obama for president in revenge for what the GOP did to me and the Ron Paul crew. 


I just thank the Creator for the complete and total economic collapse of the USA that is a 100% mathematical certainty, if nothing else, that will solve most of our problems. "



More Michael 'vice guy' brilliance?


No way! I've seen this guy before the city council, unprofessional, confused by the matter being presented, viewing 'conspiracies' behind every rock and traffic signal ... right.


There are those that will folllow him  ... off a cliff!




Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:49 | 2950677 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Ident, whatever your hidden identity is,

1st of all, I'm a property owner in that town, home paid off 100%, and pay my property taxes on time.

Second, I helped get every council member, Mayor, and City Manager fired and replaced in the past 4 years.

Now my public employees work for me.


Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:16 | 2950633 FreeSlave
FreeSlave's picture

I am pretty sure you will find other candidates (like Gary Johnson - Libertarian) on your ballot. Vote for him Libertarians!

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 02:28 | 2951064 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Done!  ... last Tuesday.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:39 | 2950700 Whiner
Whiner's picture

You, Sir, do not make logical or moral sense. You are in effect adding your vote to the candidate who nationalized healthcare, the auto industry and the financial sector. Your are much like the German who didn't squawk when the Nazis came for the handicapped, then the gypsies, then the Jews. When they came for him there was no one left to resist. Don't you know how to fight tactical battles? Vote for the new guy who has no Marxist background and has a valid birth certificate, SS Card and draft card. Keep campaigning for libertarians, but don't let the socialists break apart and take over the nation. A collapse of a nation is followed by ugliness and despotism.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 22:51 | 2950723's picture

Many of us are unconvinced that Romney displays the positive qualities which you attribute to him. We find him to be as odious as Obama. Even if he were the lesser of two evils there are those of us who will not vote for any evil under any circumstances. It has been said "By their fruits you shall know them." Romneycare and "assault weapon" bans is what you're voting for when you vote for Mitt Romney.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 02:01 | 2951042 putaipan
putaipan's picture


Tue, 11/06/2012 - 02:29 | 2951067 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture


Mon, 11/05/2012 - 18:33 | 2950023 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

The Mormon Prophesy of the United Order

say goodbye to all your private property. ROMNEY = OBAMA in that regard

"The very ethos of the Mormon faith is built around the anticipated return of Jesus to Independence, Missouri, for his thousand-year millennial reign. It is here that he will assign godhood to the worthy. However, it cannot take place until the U.S. Constitution falters and is saved by the LDS church. The nation will become a Mormon theocracy. Mitt Romney has raised Mormon speculation that this may be the time and that he may be the one to lead the way as both U.S. President and LDS high priest."



Mon, 11/05/2012 - 19:40 | 2950244 Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture

Too bad the Mormons are wrong.  Too bad Joseph Smith was a charlatan, a fake and a crook that started a cult.  Too bad there is no fucking way anything that crook or any of the subsequent leaders of that cult said that will ever come true.

If Romney actually believes any of that bullshit then he is unfit to be president of the USA.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!