Visualizing The Gun-Control Flip-Flops Of Both Presidential Candidates

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Via Sam Jacobs of Ammo.net,

Americans are on pace to buy more firearms than ever before in 2012. Yet in the run-up to the 2012 election, both President Obama and Governor Romney have downplayed the topic of gun control. And given that neither one is an avid shooter, special interest groups such as the NRA and the Brady Campaign have dominated much of the campaign rhetoric.

But the winner of the 2012 race is likely to nominate at least one new Supreme Court justice - and with two high-profile Second Amendment cases being narrowly decided by split 5-4 Supreme Court decisions in the last four years, it's important to look at how each candidate's position on gun control has evolved over time since entering the political arena.

Scroll down for a historical look at how the position on guns of both Governor Romney and President Obama has "evolved" since both entered the political realm. You'll see that each of them started out more in favor of gun control than either campaign would like you to remember.

Shooting Straight: A Surprising Look At How Both Presidential Candidates Have Changed On Gun Control [INFOGRAPHIC]
Via: Ammo.net

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Mon, 11/05/2012 - 19:14 | 2950146 yabyum
yabyum's picture

I just bought some Smith & Wesson stock today, Ruger has done very well the last four years. I wonder what other gun and ammo stocks are out ther to provide some chance at a few bucks. If we are going to be a paranoid divided country, might as well make a few bucks.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 20:17 | 2950355 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

They are both big government statists.  Either way we lose. 

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:02 | 2950752 Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

Can't get a .38 bodyguard anywhere right now, might be a good investment. I bought some actual S&W's, as I feel they will be helpful after the election, and no clear winner is named. I think the return on my investment might be higher than yours, I suggest getting physical......

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:25 | 2950799 ACP
ACP's picture

But you can still get an HK MP5 A5, which is cheap practice. They're the darned cutest little things.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:53 | 2950849 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

pricey...  not sure there aren't better alternatives given the cost.  It certainly does a good job though and has a pretty exemplary combat record.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:55 | 2950855 ACP
ACP's picture

The A5 would be strictly for practice, plinking, since it's rimfire, so the gun & ammo are dirt cheap.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:56 | 2950860 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

bah, I was thinking about the good ol' mp5...  not sure what the craze is with rimfire now...  even out of the AR platform...  just seems...  strange.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 00:01 | 2950873 ACP
ACP's picture

Maybe a cost thing. You can shoot all day for only a few $$$. My excuse, anyway.

 

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 00:42 | 2950954 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Why not a bolt action rifle (sorry 10/22 fans, but they suck) or a pistol?  At least with a 22 rifle, you can practice up on your shooting fundamentals...  likewise with the handgun...  unless you're going to be running an mp5 for fun, I'm not sure of the practicality of a 22 version of it...

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 01:55 | 2951036 ACP
ACP's picture

If a 22 doesn't pack enough punch, there's always this...

http://www.wickedlasers.com/torch

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:51 | 2950842 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

There are a lot of great arms companies in the U.S., but I'm not sure how many are publicly traded...   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Firearms_manufacturers_in_the_Unit...

You might have to move onto ammo companies... 

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 08:17 | 2951243 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

I always come directly to Zero Hedge to get the latest news on gun control and lying politicians. It really helps me sort out the financial questions that keep popping into my head.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 13:18 | 2952189 erschiessen
erschiessen's picture

Buy physical. 

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 19:10 | 2950148 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

That, sir, is a mindfuck. They can't take a stance with reason because they don't believe in anything. Flip-flops like this are the vestiges of a psychopathic mind.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 19:53 | 2950286 pods
pods's picture

I read through that list and I had to keep checking who was who.

Either they believe that the 2nd amendment to the US constitution acknowledges our right to keep and bear arms or they do not.

If any politcian starts to qualify their position by the intended use (sporting, defense, etc) they do not believe in our natural right to self defense, and merely see it as another bestowed government privilege.

pods

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:55 | 2950856 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

So long as the SCOTUS make-up stays the same, we've already got our answer regardless of who's elected.  We've also got an answer for when martial law is declared and they come to try and confiscate the weapons...  patently illegal and unconstitutional.  Might even want to keep a few copies of the court decisions by the door so you can hand them out to the authorities (you might have to read it to them).

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 09:17 | 2951363 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Either they believe that the 2nd amendment to the US constitution acknowledges our right to keep and bear arms or they do not.

Well put, and an important point.  The second amendment grants nothing; it recognizes and acknowledges a pre-existing right.  It says "we didn't give up this human right just to join your stupid government."  It is backed up by the tenth, my favorite and the one that was among the first to be brushed aside because it was the most limiting: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."  IOW, "this constitution-thing grants you effing statists specific and limited powers, and we retain everything else." 

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 19:15 | 2950166 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Both are gun control advocates.

And whoever is elected will choose at least ONE scotus judge, maybe as much as 3.

That would mean a supreme court with a big majority against guns... for at least 2 decades. And at some point, they gonna make a ruling that will cross the line in the sand of many people and then shiat will hit the fan.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 20:18 | 2950358 crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

The term "gun control" is a classic Orwellian "newspeak" term. It is far more palatable than "anti-gun rights" and should never be used by anyone who supports the Second Amendment -- unless you're referring to breathing and grip techniques to keep your gun under control.

When you use "their" term, you are playing by their rules.  And sloppy use of language -- as Orwell reminded us -- leads to sloppiness in thought.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:28 | 2950806 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

For some reason, thinking is nowhere near epidemic levels today.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 00:06 | 2950892 Precious
Precious's picture

The first act of any competent tyrant is to disarm the populace.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 08:17 | 2951246 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Yeah, they'll come and take our illegal guns, our marijuana and our meth.

WHO THE FUCK BELIEVES THIS SHIT???

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 18:44 | 2953393 Precious
Precious's picture

Look it up, shit for brains.  History provides dozens of examples, on every continent, including yours.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 19:26 | 2950198 booboo
booboo's picture

Gun owners look to be hedging their bets but considering the violent past of Mormons trek to Utah, especially in Mo. You would think it would be mandatory fully Automatic weapons in every Mormon closet like the Swiss,
The squishy right will swallow more gun control from their guy though. So if any of you think Mitt ain't Going to tee up some good old gun control as a sop to the wingnut libtards I got news for you.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 19:55 | 2950295 pods
pods's picture

Mittens sees the right to bear arms as just another bestowed government privilege to be modified or taken away as needed.

Lifetime member of the NRA. Haha.  NRA is not on your side.

pods

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 20:24 | 2950363 crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

NRA=Neocon Republicans Association

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 20:32 | 2950385 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

NRA is a pro gun control sucker organization.
Gun Owner's Action League, and NY favorite, Jews For the Preservation of Gun Owners.

The 2nd isn't about crime or hunting. It is about violence to organs and agents of state power.
And, the tree of liberty is thirsty.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 20:36 | 2950400 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Offthebeach

Do not forget the GOA, they ,along with Larry Pratt , and the JFPO, are the only TWO NO bargains organizations nationally.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 20:36 | 2950399 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The NRA wasn't on Heller's side.

They're nothing but lobbyists concerned with maintaining their own power, and the broader perception by the public and the politicians of their power.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 11:12 | 2951699 Chump
Chump's picture

I was all set to send them a strongly-worded letter after they endorsed Romney in light of MA's permanent ban on assault weapons, until I read that they also endorsed that legislation at the time.  Apparently it's possible to "expand gun rights" in a bill that permanently bans certain kinds of scary-looking weapons.

No more NRA for me.  What a crock.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 19:24 | 2950199 walküre
walküre's picture

Word is that gun & ammo sales are to outperform even more under Obama's 2nd term.

I think they got that wrong. If Romney got elected, the shit will hit the fan and guns & ammo are your only friends. Maybe the customers of Rugers and Smith&Wesson used the last 4 years to not only buy the equipment, but actually practise the use of said weapons. Although I suspect many are still flipping through the manuals and trying to figure out how to load the gun. They woudn't want to ask anyone for fear of major embarrasment.

Seriously, what is a gun going to help you when Obama's communist marching soldiers are banging your door in. You can shoot yourself before they do. That's about it.

Now with Romney in power, you don't have to fear any communist armies coming after you. The down & out and newly more impoverished however will come to take what they want. Law enforcement will be reduced due to budget cuts and you're all on your very own defending the loot from the starving masses.

Freakin' gun & ammo advertisers got it all wrong.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 19:43 | 2950242 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

The Iraqi insurgents didn't just shoot themselves when they were confronted by the military. And they didn't have the Oath Keepers as backup.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 19:48 | 2950275 walküre
walküre's picture

So Obama is now Saddam Hussein? LOL

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 19:54 | 2950292 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

That wasn't the point. The point was that insurgencies can confront trained militaries in effective ways. What are you smoking, giggle boy?

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 20:39 | 2950407 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

And THAT, my friend, is what the gubmint is certainly concerned about, and will be as "delicate" as possible when handling any civil unrest if it breaks out.  There is a tipping point for most people (myself included, if I'm honest with myself) where the masses will finally become involved.  If you read about an injustice on the other side of the country (perhaps a blatantly unlawful breach and entry of a private citizen's home over trumped up charges), then you'll furiously type your oh-so-stern opinion on ZH.  If it happens again on the other side of town, you might start to seriously decide what to do...fight, flight, or surrender.  They know that you'll have a better chance of surrendering if you have a family to protect (i.e., you don't want to be killed or arrested long-term, and thereby affect your family's financial survival).

But if it happens several times close by, then you'll know it's time to become a Minuteman and literally fight for what you would *absolutely* know at that point to be freedom's survival, when you are more or less pushed against the wall and don't have much of a choice.  This can sometimes be known as the "Bandwagon Effect".  A lot of like-minded people will be waiting on the sidelines for the right moment when they sense their participation will make more of a difference, and when they see enough people in the first wave becoming involved, the true tipping point will have been reached, and everyone will rise up and fight.

Unfortunately, as we all know too well, TPTB have slowly...slowly...incrementally gained their foothold over the years, and they know that they only need to act beneath that tipping point to avoid a fullblown uprising.  For nearly all of us, "fighting for freedom" is a gloriously romantic notion that makes for good history-telling and online video games, but how many people would step up to be among those in the first wave to literally push TPTB back with guns and lead?  It's a very serious question...one that has been answered by previous generations in one way or another.

In other words, the first person to fight back against an unjust attack by the police/SWAT and kill an officer will immediately become painted as a "domestic terrorist", and if he survives the first attack, he certainly won't survive the next onslaught when they radio for backup and bring down his house with hellfire.  And all the neighbors will be watching and shaking their heads, not wanting to take up the torch for freedom and join the unfair fight against TPTB.  That scene will be repeated over and over across the nation, probably broadcast on the nightly news as "examples" to all the sheeple to stay out of the fray and continue shopping at Walmart.

But this leads to my point (and perhaps Crockett's)...it will be at this point when insurgents and clandestine freedom fighters will pop up and do a little damage here, and a little mayhem there.  The beast won't get a spear to the heart, but it might eventually die the death of a thousand cuts.

I hate violence, and I sure hope to God this won't happen, but I think history (even recent world history) tells us otherwise.  At its core, mankind is always split into two groups.  One that wishes to live freely, and one that always wants more, and attempts to get what it wants by subjugating others.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 09:42 | 2951412 Chaos_Theory
Chaos_Theory's picture

Reading a decent book right now about the Apache tactics of the 1870-1886 Apache Wars.  They knew insurgency war long before Mao.  Little things like learn the enemy's patterns (and standing Armies and LE will always have SOPs, which lead to patterns), strike when they're at their weakest, pick the terrain, avoid pitched battle, etc. 

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 20:08 | 2950327 DosZap
DosZap's picture

So Obama is now Saddam Hussein? LOL

 

So, did you not learn ONE thing from Fast N Furious?.

Did you not get the COLLUSION between ObaMao, and Calderone stumping hand in hand as ONE?, even as WE(.goobers) supplied thousands of weapons to the cartels?.

And did you not notice the speeches, and calls for SOMETHING to be done, about the FLOW from the USA to Mehico?,from Hellary stumping, to the El Presidente of Mehico, allowing this travesty to go forward, and get 50,000+ of his citizens murdered?.

Some of us did notice.

WTFU

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 08:13 | 2951237 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

Don't forget Herr Bloomberg, 5'2" hero of the Big Gulp, cigs, donuts, jogging Maxis while tens of thousands shivering amongst piles of sand and dead rats. Bloomberg who sent heal clicking cops to other states to break laws in his own domestic Fast'n Furious. Bloomberg with his own personal armed guards for him and his family but not some poor bodega owner who works 120 hrs a week. Bloomberg with mansions all over the world, private jets, constant running SUV, but for the cattle, Global Warming and walking when the streets aren't filled with unplowed snow.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 23:07 | 2950767 Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

At least his middle name is........ maybe he'll hide in a spider hole too...

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 19:52 | 2950285 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

In the aftermath of New Orleans' Hurricane Katrina the authorities did a live American test of gun confiscation

Uniformed jackboots at the door, 'turn in your guns'

Americans gave up their guns ... no 'out of my cold dead hands', apparently ...

There were will be some resisters, but perhaps not many

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 20:01 | 2950308 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

That sort of thing can only work until the folks in Concord hear about what happened in Lexington.

 

The first shots were fired just as the sun was rising at Lexington. The militia were outnumbered and fell back, and the regulars proceeded on to Concord, where they searched for the supplies. At the North Bridge in Concord, approximately 500 militiamen fought and defeated three companies of the King's troops. The outnumbered regulars fell back from the minutemen after a pitched battle in open territory.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Lexington_and_Concord

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 20:00 | 2950309 pods
pods's picture

The smart ones would have the old throwaway pump shotgun to hand over.  Not like you are going to outlast 6-12 jackboots with MP5's at the ready.  

The MBR would be tucked away out of sight.  

Of course, with everything being recorded now, they certainly could show up asking for all your specific firearms.  That is the usual MO and the reason why they have those lists to begin with.

pods

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 00:23 | 2950887 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Actually, it's the other way around.  With inter-agency information cross referencing, it's only a matter of time before they have your entire registry...  your insured gun list...  everything.  You'll have to give them everything there is actually a record of when they come knocking...  presuming that the SCOTUS' decision has changed.  Otherwise, you have some fairly interesting legal options for illegal searches and seizures.  In other words, during katrina 2, you give them everything but the ol' beater shotgun that there is no record of you owning.  [the gun has to be registered, but the transaction (who you purchased from) does not when conducted via private sale from a person not in the business of selling guns]

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 10:33 | 2951538 pods
pods's picture

That has been my biggest issue with purchasing new arms.  I remember seeing stories years ago about how the ATF forms were not being destroyed but archived.  All my current arms are outside these lists.  

Even worse, in NY, your pistol permit must list all the sidearms which you are permitted (well it was like that when I lived there).  NC (think that is your homestate as well as mine IIRC) is much different, being a shall issue state.

Bottom line is that if they show up at your house with a list, you are done.  As I said before, a half dozen goons with MP5's are going to win.

If they are doing random searches, toss out the old 30-30 or .22.

pods

 

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 20:29 | 2950311 crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

"There were will be some resisters, but perhaps not many."

Not many at all.  Probably a lot fewer than you think.

A great read on this topic is Col Jeff Cooper's, "To Ride, Shoot Straight and Speak the Truth" (Survivor story).

Fortunately, it doesn't take many real resistance fighters to make a big difference (consider the Warsaw ghetto uprising, for example).

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 21:58 | 2950584 toomanyfakecons...
toomanyfakeconservatives's picture

Agreed... human rodents armed with stolen small arms living in the sewers of Warsaw caused the most powerful modern army ever to roam a battlefield to suffer huge losses in men, time, and material.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 08:46 | 2951302 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

By then 90% of the petty, materialistic Jewish sheeple had willing gone to the deathcamps. Those that stayed and fought were politically active Communist. They had a cause to fight for and knew they would be liked anyway. A mere hick up in the program which mainly suffered from poor quality management and under resources.

Our state thugs are way more subtle. Like occasional fires, they know to manufacturing tire small critics, attaract leaders, fund and egg on...then kill them as messages to the sheeple.
Think of the constant 1984 of always enemies. Keeps the sheeples eyes off the regime.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 09:45 | 2951423 Random
Random's picture

Care to elaborate a bit regarding the death camps? Can you give the names of those death camps please? This is very new to me.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 20:32 | 2950383 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

New Orleans, are you kidding?  And where outside of the New Orleans city limits did they conduct these tests?

(Actually in that same vein, where inside the city limits did they not conduct the same tests?)

 

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 20:23 | 2950360 Overfed
Overfed's picture

 All of the "Shock and Awe", drones, daisycutters, bunker-busters, thermobaric bombs and helicopter gunships the US military could dish out wasn't enough to make the Mujahideen cry uncle or shoot themselves. You don't think Americans who value their freedom could aquit themselves equally well?

Your second scenario is as likely as any, and you had better have the means and the wherewithal to defend your family and your property. Or just roll over and give it up. Your choice.

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