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It Doesn't Matter

Tyler Durden's picture


Via Simon Black of Sovereign Man blog,

It’s really hard to ignore what’s happening today; the election phenomenon is global.

Over the last several weeks, I’ve traveled to so many countries, and EVERYWHERE it seems, the US presidential election is big news. Even when I was in Myanmar ten days ago, local pundits were engaged in the Obamney debate. Chile. Spain. Germany. Finland. Hong Kong. Thailand. Singapore. It was inescapable.

The entire world seems fixated on this belief that it actually matters who becomes the President of the United States anymore… or that one of these two guys is going to ‘fix’ things.

Fact is, it doesn’t matter. Not one bit. And I’ll show you mathematically:

1) When the US federal government spends money, expenses are officially categorized in three different ways.


Discretionary spending includes nearly everything we think of related to government– the US military, Air Force One, the Department of Homeland Security, TSA agents who sexually assault passengers, etc.


Mandatory spending includes entitlements like Medicare, Social Security, VA benefits, etc. which are REQUIRED by law to be paid.


The final category is interest on the debt. It is non-negotiable.


Mandatory spending and debt interest go out the door automatically. It’s like having your mortgage payment autodrafted from your bank account– Congress doesn’t even see the money, it’s automatically deducted.


2) With the rise of baby boomer entitlements and steady increase in overall debt levels, mandatory spending and interest payments have exploded in recent years. In fact, the Congressional Budget Office predicted in 2010 that the US government’s TOTAL revenue would be exceeded by mandatory spending and interest expense within 15-years.


That’s a scary thought. Except it happened the very next year.


3) In Fiscal Year 2011, the federal government collected $2.303 trillion in tax revenue. Interest on the debt that year totaled $454.4 billion, and mandatory spending totaled $2,025 billion. In sum, mandatory spending plus debt interest totaled $2.479 trillion… exceeding total revenue by $176.4 billion.


For Fiscal Year 2012 which just ended 37 days ago, that shortfall increased 43% to $251.8 billion.


In other words, they could cut the entirety of the Federal Government’s discretionary budget– no more military, SEC, FBI, EPA, TSA, DHS, IRS, etc.– and they would still be in the hole by a quarter of a trillion dollars.


4) Raising taxes won’t help. Since the end of World War II, tax receipts in the US have averaged 17.7% of GDP in a very tight range. The low has been 14.4% of GDP, and the high has been 20.6% of GDP.


During that period, however, tax rates have been all over the board. Individual rates have ranged from 10% to 91%. Corporate rates from 15% to 53%. Gift taxes, estate taxes, etc. have all varied. And yet, total tax revenue has stayed nearly constant at 17.7% of GDP.


It doesn’t matter how much they increase tax rates– they won’t collect any more money.


5) GDP growth prospects are tepid at best. Facing so many headwinds like quickening inflation, an enormous debt load, and debilitating regulatory burdens, the US economy is barely keeping pace with population growth.


6) The only thing registering any meaningful growth in the US is the national debt. It took over 200 years for the US government to accumulate its first trillion dollars in debt. It took just 286 days to accumulate the most recent trillion (from $15 trillion to $16 trillion).


Last month alone, the first full month of Fiscal Year 2013, the US government accumulated nearly $200 billion in new debt– 20% of the way to a fresh trillion in just 31 days.


7) Not to mention, the numbers will only continue to get worse. 10,000 people each day begin receiving mandatory entitlements. Fewer people remain behind to pay into the system. The debt keeps rising, and interest payments will continue rising.


8) Curiously, a series of polls taken by ABC News/Washington Post and NBC News/Wall Street Journal show that while 80% of Americans are concerned about the debt, roughly the same amount (78%) oppose cutbacks to mandatory entitlements like Medicare.


9) Bottom line, the US government is legally bound to spend more money on mandatory entitlements and interest than it can raise in tax revenue. It won’t make a difference how high they raise taxes, or even if they cut everything else that remains in government as we know it.

This is not a political problem, it’s a mathematical one. Facts are facts, no matter how uncomfortable they may be. Today’s election is merely a choice of who is going to captain the sinking Titanic.


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Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:25 | 2953901 thedrickster
thedrickster's picture

And there you have it.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:31 | 2953912 old naughty
old naughty's picture

Facts are facts...

Throw 2 parties costng $6 billion just to put focus off real issues a bit.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:36 | 2953925 metastar
metastar's picture

The report below recounts my experience voting tonight in FEMA Region 2 - New York...


Scamtron Voting

Tonight I proudly participated in the great state sponsored sacred ritual otherwise known as voting. I entered the polling area and was directed to a corner where I was to collect my scamtron test form. I was instructed to completely fill the "O"'s for the candidate of my choice and to only use the government provided writing apparatus. Naturally, I suspected the cheap "Made in China" pen would contain ink which would disappear instantly after casting my vote.

I studied the false choices before me and warily considered my options. I didn't want carrots and I wasn't in the mood for peas. The column of POTUS and state senate offered options outside the false left/right paradigm. There I blotted the bubbles. Every other column contained only two names repeated over and over under different parties. This was to ensure that I made the right choice and no child would be left behind! Well, I couldn't decided. I left those columns blank rather than risking a 1/4 point deduction for the wrong answer.

After much deliberation and angst I took the completed paperwork to the fully automated, electronic, infallible, error correcting, bubble ballot box. There was a gurgling sound as the device ate, then regurgitated all my hopes, prayers, and dreams. The officer behind the machine said "your vote didn't count". I said "I KNOW! That's the problem!"

I looked closer at the flickering blue screen. It admonished me because I did not complete all the columns. It demanded verification that I wanted to submit anyway. Sorry, I meant "the form". So, I pressed the "OK" button as I cursed under my breath attempting to keep my potentially inflammatory comments to myself. The state programmed instrument then acknowledged that my exam was accepted "WITH MISTAKES".

Well, it was no damn mistake, but if the state robot says you're guilty, then you're guilty. Guess I'll have to file an appeal in four more years. Wish me luck with it.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:53 | 2953967 knukles
knukles's picture

See, it matters tremendously.

Because the Perceptions Management team will be able to say that because of their efforts, the world thinks it matters.

And is therefore a success.

It matters, inasmuch as the Rhetoric will Change.


(and if you cannot grasp this,, it's off to the re-education camp for you....  everybody knows what's in room 101, Winston...)

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:04 | 2953986 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

What does "rhetoric" mean? I'm an American. They never say "rhetoric" on the shows I watch. WTF?

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:10 | 2953994 Abraxas
Abraxas's picture

It's one of those words only hostile elements would use. That guy, Knukles, is a hostile element if I ever saw one. I will report on him for his anti-patriotic remarks (which I didn't fully understand) and for using the R word.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:15 | 2954002 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Looks like the mainstream media won again with their divide and conquer strategy, keeping the US population at a near perfect 50/50 split.

Congratulations MSM.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:20 | 2954015 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

Its actually real simple.  Cut your consumption in 1/2..  


That's it..  Sit back and watch it crash..


Wed, 11/07/2012 - 01:58 | 2954776 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

Plus, you could Cloward-Piven the hell out of the system. Apply for all the welfare you can get your hands on. Crash this fucker faster, Amen.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 11:56 | 2956225 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Q: How many Amerikan is take can screw incandescent bulb.

A: None, all is screwed.

* Plus, cannot is make incandescent bulb in Amerika for any more

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 18:00 | 2958251 pavman
pavman's picture

Texas bucked the system, according to Gov. Perry.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 17:59 | 2958249 pavman
pavman's picture

Problem is.... I did that four years ago and it seems Benny and the jets have offset my attempt to crash the system.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:18 | 2954007 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Not your quote knukles...but Simons...

"The final category is interest on the debt. It is non-negotiable."

lol...bullshit...and by whom? Everything is negotiable to someone who says they're not paying, right? See Greece, Italy, Portugal, Spain etal.

But the mind fuck is that would be me apparently, yes? What are they going to do? Down grade the countrys credit, destroy its currency? Not a problem...I jus go to ma Obama, nmewn, er um, I just go deep sea fishing.

Whatever, worthless article.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 10:48 | 2955842 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Well if you can't cut medicare because it's 'mandatory' then you can always nationalise the medical industry and then cut it to shreds.

How the fuck did privately owned companies ever manage to 'Mandatory' themselves into government?

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:02 | 2953984 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

+ 1000    Metastar!

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:15 | 2954003 metastar
metastar's picture


I know I'm spitting into the wind, but if enough of us do it then perhaps there will be enough rain for the crops to grow.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 05:56 | 2955085 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

I once pissed in the wind and this dutch guy standing behind me thought is was raining beer...


Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:26 | 2954026 metastar
metastar's picture


Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:20 | 2954010 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

+1 good luck with the appeal.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:37 | 2954059 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

When you graduate from FEMA Region 2 to FEMA Camp 2 it will be much easier since they fill in your ballots for you.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 00:18 | 2954180 knukles
knukles's picture


Wed, 11/07/2012 - 08:32 | 2955298 Bogdog
Bogdog's picture

And from FEMA Camp 2 to FEMA Mass Grave 2.


Wed, 11/07/2012 - 00:18 | 2954171 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Say hi to your new FEMA masters for me. Just remember "in order to get a sweater you need to fill out form 34658b...lines x-e, sign on both sides and don't forget to date it. if you want a pair of socks that form....

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 07:46 | 2955172 dolly madison
dolly madison's picture

Here in California, they also had to press extra buttons for the scamtron machine to accept my ballot with missing votes.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 09:51 | 2955588 AGuy
AGuy's picture

I voted for the local propositons to avoid higher property taxes. The national candidates didn't matter, since my vote would not make a difference, nor did I care for any of the presidental candidates.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:10 | 2953995 thedrickster
thedrickster's picture

Thumbs down?

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:24 | 2954024 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Yes, thumbs down.

It assigns the governments lack of restraint & responsibility to the individual...sorry, I ain't payin for that.

Let it burn.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:57 | 2954101 thedrickster
thedrickster's picture

The arithmetic remains.

Being suffocated under the weight of government folly/debt is untenable, as is the exit. There is no turnaround, no fix, only a slow grind into crushing poverty OR the uncertainity of a great reset.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 00:09 | 2954129 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


It assigns the governments lack of restraint & responsibility to the individual...sorry, I ain't payin for that.

It's odious debt. The lenders can go piss up a rope. They were the ones that made loans to a known high risk borrower. The lenders can go try to collect from all current and past responsible congressmen, senators, presidents, and supreme court justices, as well as the heirs of those already deceased, since they were the beneficiaries of the loans.

The lenders should be delighted to recover ten cents on the dollar.

Let it burn.

Agreed. Just like the wildfires out west, if they'd have let them burn, things would have recovered relatively quickly. Trying to put them all out has only guaranteed a future of hugely destructive conflagrations.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 13:59 | 2957060 ModifytheDebt
ModifytheDebt's picture

Agree as well. The last time I checked the we have a US Army, Navy, Airforce not Federal Reserve.  Modify the debt by removing say..... 9 zero's or say we have the guns.  Bring it!

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:28 | 2953902 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

But it matters.

Every 'american' around the world knows it matters. Some few others know that too.

The path as cut by 'americans' was set in 1776,July, 4th.

If 'american' elections do not matter in 2010s, they have never mattered.

Welcome to an 'american' world.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:30 | 2953910 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



I understand Shakespeare better than your chinese limericks.

The idea of America penned in 1776 is not what exists today.  Kinda like when the Chiefs were a good football team.  Do you know what football is, AA?

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 04:25 | 2955019 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Ah, good. English was such a different thing in those days than what 'americans' did to that language.

It is another sign of how humanity has benefited from 'americanism'.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 04:27 | 2955023 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

The idea of America penned in 1776 is not what exists today.


Yes, indeed. More fabled past. No change in 'americanism' since 1776. Only change in the environmental conditions. In 1776, there were so many people left for 'americans' to rob from.

Alas, today, 'americans' have stolen so much it is a different situation.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 04:29 | 2955026 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Kinda like when the Chiefs were a good football team.

Was it before or after the US, that beacon of freedom, truth and justice abolished slavery on the negroes?

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 04:36 | 2955037 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The US never abolished de jure salvery, and the practice of de facto slavery has grown significantly over the past 99 years.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 04:40 | 2955040 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Sure, sure. Keep telling that. Maybe enough 'americans' will congregate around that and provide enough strength to that story to be reported as truth.

This is the way 'americans' behave.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 07:50 | 2955185 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

So is Hu going to air the Party's dirty laundry and hang Jiang out to dry, or is the Chinese slavery dirt going to be swept under the carpet in order to maintain the oligarchy's status quo at all costs?


Wed, 11/07/2012 - 06:54 | 2955122 Ace Ventura
Ace Ventura's picture

LOLZ! These sort of comments always make me chuckle. As if the USA was the actual originator, and sole practicioner, of slavery. Yessir, that one is all on those crazy Americans. Do I dare ask where AA is from?

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:44 | 2953945 Rick64
Rick64's picture

Come on it matters. I want a new bullshitter in there, I'm tired of the same old lies. I want some new lies.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 09:56 | 2955614 AGuy
AGuy's picture

"May both of these two corporate stooges go to hell."

Fear Not! I am absolutely sure the O'Man will invent an completely new batch of lies to replace\supersede his old ones. I am never disappointed by ever increasing pile of steaming BS that originates in Washington DC!


Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:27 | 2953904 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Thanks, now go back to Myanmar, that is the name of youw winnebago right?

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:38 | 2953932 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture


Wed, 11/07/2012 - 03:54 | 2954991 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

". . .watching the parade with pinpoint eyes, full of smoldering anger,

yeah you can do what you want to whenever you want to,

though it doesn't mean a thing. . ."

Elliot Smith ~  Ballad of Big Nothing

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:29 | 2953907 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

And the circus leaves town.


Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:40 | 2953937 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

There was an election today? You kind of lose touch after you shoot your TV.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:50 | 2953956 hangemhigh
hangemhigh's picture


There was an election today? You kind of lose touch after you shoot your TV.

cut up your credit card, kill your tv...and vote the incumbent out...............

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:29 | 2953908 monopoly
monopoly's picture

I love simple math.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:43 | 2953909 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



"It just doesn't matter... 

...because all the really good looking girls
will still go out with a guy from Mohawk Wall Street
'cause they got all the money."


Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:31 | 2953913 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

Well said!   But the masses' math ability is not great...

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:33 | 2953919 thethirdcoast
thethirdcoast's picture


Wed, 11/07/2012 - 08:10 | 2955221 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture


doesn't matter what we think, how we vote or wether we agree or not

just give us your fucking money serf ...or else!

gotta luv this 'democracy' thing

Stop Paying Tax ...don't fund the anarchy

..the IRS (Fed) are now armed and dangerous (f'n loonies) ...hide it, well

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:36 | 2953922 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

Today I am very depressed. The sun has not shone for a week now maybe. Then there's the election and the hockey lockout coming to a head today. Hopefully the sun comes out soon. It matters.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:37 | 2953926 lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

i've gone from being angry to just severely depressed.   & that also doesn't matter. 

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:37 | 2953928 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I try to get this same fact through people's head and all they say is..."but they need to get spending under control" . They don't get that we are on an exponentialdebt gowth path to hell. 

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:37 | 2953929 Antifederalist
Antifederalist's picture


Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:37 | 2953930 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 2012 Election Party= $6billion...    2013 Global Meltdown= Priceless...

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:38 | 2953933 LouisDega
LouisDega's picture

If it doesnt matter, Then why is it being tracked?

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:41 | 2953940 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

We like to see who our next overlord is.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:57 | 2953973 knukles
knukles's picture

We, the faithful here at ZH must needs a topic(s) for humor, derision and twisted entertainment.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:22 | 2953978 knukles
knukles's picture


Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:24 | 2954022 seek
seek's picture

We like to see who our next overlord is.

Erm, more like we like to know who the overlord's next sock puppet spokeperson is.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:39 | 2953936 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

The whole process is a fucking false flag. lmao......

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:50 | 2953958 MilleniumJane
MilleniumJane's picture

Beat me to the link!!!  This is exactly what came to my mind first.  Gawd, I'm old.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:52 | 2953942 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

The "mathematical certainty" argument ignores one small detail -- personal wealth in America (the majority of which is held by a few thousand individuals) exceeds $80 trillion.  Add corporate wealth, and you reach $200 trillion.   That is a small percentage of the government debt, and an even smaller percentage of the annual deficit.  If the .01% gets to keep the spoils, then indeed the 99.9% must make do with less as a matter of mathematical certainty.  If the .01% is required to give back a small percentage of their spoils, then not so much.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:09 | 2953991 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture


But it also a certainty that the big boys would sooner vaporize all of that money than give you and/or I a single red cent "back". I'd be okay with that, would you?

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:42 | 2954029 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

When money vaporizes, it always seems to rain back down in the boardrooms and vacation homes of the .01% (or the legal teams of same).

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:32 | 2954034 Ox
Ox's picture

I'm not so sure that's right.


Most wealth can disappear quite quickly, in fact most asset valuation is based on future promises and the expectation of ever growing demand (in the aggregate), something which isn't necessarily possible.


In order to pay off the debt using stored wealth, that wealth in assets needs to be sold off and exchanged for cash. How much of a discount would the market pay if people started offloading assets en mass, and who exactly would buy the assets? 10% discount? 30%? Who exactly would be taking the other side of the trade, given that everyone except the asset holders is essentially insolvent (and some of them are too)?


The assumption that asset prices are fixed is the problem. Assets are worth precisely diddly-squat in a bidless market.


That's not even beginning to assess what would happen if people couldn't make good on their promises in the roughly one Quadrillion derivatives market....

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:37 | 2954047 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I did not advocate that the wealth be sold off en masse.  First, it will never happen.  Second, I agree with you that it would lead to deflation, which would shrink the wealth and change the equation.  My point is that the mathematical certainty argument assumes the status quo and ignores that the math is what it is because of decades of redistribution of wealth from the middle/bottom to the top.  What the author is really saying -- probably unintentionally -- is that the oligarchs have won.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:44 | 2954076 Ox
Ox's picture

OK I must be reading your comment wrong, carry on.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 00:23 | 2954222 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

historically speaking mega-storms like Sandy are inflationary as the massive cost of an already bankrupt and overburdened State apparatus overwhelm the system. New York City has the best economists in the world so i'm sure "they're on that." We'll see. the collapse of an electrical grid is a very serious well as the loss of public transportation...should it become permanent. this is not a affects all three States of New York, New Jersey and Connecticut...though not equally. Connecticut is a huge winner and if New York City doesn't pull it's head out of it's ass no less than Manhattan itself could have some serious issues. That new transportation center is 500,000 square feet! is it totally flooded with sea water right now! if so, well...there's your new FEMA headquarters...FOREVER.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 06:08 | 2955092 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Much closer to a net  90 % dicount in my personal experience with Fire sales.

Poof and its gone.

Doesn't matter what its worth on paper, only what someone

will give you right there, and then.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:43 | 2953943 SilverDoctors
SilverDoctors's picture

Good thing for George W. Bush it doesn't matter...he accidentally voted for Obama today, then attempted to 'cast away' his ballot by selecting cast your ballot. Said everything was mismaladjusted on his screen.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:47 | 2953951 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

That made me smile.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:49 | 2953955 q99x2
q99x2's picture

It doesn't matter. The oil companies and banksters are winning the election--again!

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:57 | 2953960 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

"This is not a political problem, it’s a mathematical one."

Mr. Black,

Indeed, it doesn't matter.

It also doesn't matter that I'm curious if you, personally, skipped right by the part where you recognized (did you?) a defunct Congress.

That pesky situation that turns festering political problems into mathematical ones, I mean.

Did you skip right by, or did you at least stop and ponder?

What would be the implications?

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 00:42 | 2954385 Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture

Ditto.  The acronym is CWAC: Congress Writes All Checks. 

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:53 | 2953965 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

Didn't realize there were that many white folks in D.C.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 06:52 | 2955119 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Only in daylight.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 22:59 | 2953974 j-dub
j-dub's picture


Actually it does matter.  Big.

        I've got 2 lunch bets going on this thing.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:00 | 2953979 caimen garou
caimen garou's picture

more power scottie! but captian, i'm giving you all she's got and we're still going down!

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:05 | 2953988 ifishivote
ifishivote's picture

Our country is done... Obama got re-elected becuase he is pro-choice. Thats how stupid Americans have become. With all of the problems in this country, Abortion is what they care about.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 01:44 | 2954732 zebrasquid
zebrasquid's picture

Marriage- equality, too -- Big among the college age voters.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:08 | 2953989 mkhs
mkhs's picture

I wish I had this guy's optimism.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:09 | 2953993 logicalman
logicalman's picture

I'll be dead soon.

It won't matter all that much.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:18 | 2954008 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Mr. Black is a small minded man. A slave to the banker mentality.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:20 | 2954014 jim249
jim249's picture

As many have commented before. It does not matter who wins the election, we are going down. Finished.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:27 | 2954031 magpie
magpie's picture


Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:29 | 2954037 grunk
grunk's picture

Yeah, but... Jay-Z and Beyonce. Springsteen and Letterman.


There, I showed you. 

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:43 | 2954071 eddiebe
eddiebe's picture

People in the US are mostly pissed for being lied to and misrepresented by their supposedly duly elected representatives. People in foreign countries are mostly glad they are'nt targeted by the US.'s WMD's. ( At least not yet.)

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 23:46 | 2954079 BarryG
Wed, 11/07/2012 - 00:40 | 2954364 Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture


Germany is anti-Israel? Sounds like Israeli COINTEL.  It's a criminal act to "deny" alleged holocaustianity in Germany.  People are actually in German prison today for this thought crime.  Germany is most definitely not anti-Israel.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 00:13 | 2954141 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Simon, the Captain of the Titanic line is so 2008...


Wed, 11/07/2012 - 00:18 | 2954173 thedrickster
thedrickster's picture

Touche, the Hindenburg would be more appropriate this time around.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 00:32 | 2954291 Weyland_Yutani
Weyland_Yutani's picture

The US of A will hit the debt ceiling in a couple of weeks. Is Obama going to pay off the creditors with newly printed food stamps or what is the plan?


Wait, are foodstamps eligible to use in foreign countries?

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 03:42 | 2954980 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Yes, the Morgue runs that operation.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 02:00 | 2954784 mumbo_jumbo
mumbo_jumbo's picture

speaking of math could you show me some back of the envelope calculations on how i've so far paid into SS $150K and yet when i receive MY MONEY BACK it's then called an entitlement? AND i still got 20 years to go on paying in.

i for one am sick of hearing how SS is an entitlement.  i'm forced to pay into the system i have every right to get some of that money back. 

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 02:25 | 2954850 dark_matter
dark_matter's picture

Social Security is a Ponzi Scheme. In a Ponzi Scheme only those at the top get their money out. You won't be getting it whether you call it an entitlement or a right. Neither will I.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 02:33 | 2954867 Walt D.
Walt D.'s picture

It is an entitlement - you are entitled to be paid out since you paid in. Think yourself lucky. What is coming down the pike is means testing. Even though you paid into it, you will not automatically entitled to receive payments. If you have to go into a senior care facility and you are considered weathly, you will not only have to pay for your own care but will have to subsidize the care of others who can not afford to pay.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 03:48 | 2954987 goodrich4bk
goodrich4bk's picture

The SS actuaries calculate that without changes, by 2035 the SS system will be able to pay only 70% of promised benefits.  ZIRP and the SS tax cut in 2010 have likely moved that date up by a few years.

But please, stop with the Wall Street lie that SS is "bankrupt" or that it won't be able to pay anything at all.  Moreover, the changes to keep it solvent for another 75 years are modest ---- raising the $110k income threshold a bit, extending the retirement age by a year.  No means tests are required.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 07:12 | 2955129 Ace Ventura
Ace Ventura's picture

LOL. Yeah that whole SS fund is just straight FLUSH with cash. Never mind that supersonic debt-clock ticking past $16 trillion. Love the 'solvency fix' too....just crank taxes 'a bit', and make it so a taxpayer has to wait yet another year to collect money he/she paid into the system. You know, just keep incrementally making such 'adjustments' and voila.....pretty soon all that's left is people paying more than ever for a 'return' they will never live to see.

Sounds awesome!

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 08:57 | 2955385 sunnyside
sunnyside's picture

Social Security wasn't solvent the day it started paying out more than it was taking in.  The circle jerk that is the "trust fund" is spent, not invested, and can only be made up by adding another surcharge to the taxpayer or simply printing more fiat.


Wed, 11/07/2012 - 02:37 | 2954874 newworldorder
newworldorder's picture

The author is correct. It does not matter until it does. That day will be a long time in the future. Every means will be used by the US and Global Central Banks to prevent the enevitable. As long as interest on sovereing and bank loans can be covered, and oil flows without interuption the status quo will be maintained.

Ther is no one group or groups on God's/athiest earth that has the ability to stop this madness.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 05:43 | 2955049 falak pema
falak pema's picture

yes there is : nemesis. 

Monetary fascism and inverted totalitariansism will beget a backlash, which will be in debased cash and inflation rash.

Don't get too high on hash as the beanstalk will shrivel one day like a deflated baloon; a barbie doll that shrinks to pink nothing thru overabuse. 

Just look at the world today : Oil plutocracies based on feudal, tribal power structures; Putin Land of oil based on Czarism, or Stalinism, and corrupt Oligarchy; Euro lands caught in the throes of a hundred headed hydra, the euro, that suffocates their vitality; Theocratic China now so full of popes in purple and red, sitting on the Peking politburo, where nobody knows whom to give head and whom to take tail, all caught up in their bubble-o-nomics billion sheeple jail; and finally, King Debased dollar's monetary fascism homeland, no country for young people...or honest entrepreneurs. 

We're all on the same ship and its the Medusa raft heading for Niagara falls or the icebergs of melting north pole. 

Its time the Gods of Olympus sent us Nemesis, to clean out these stables that stink to high heaven. And Nemesis waits on no man, be he king of despotic fiat like a latter day Cressus. 

Watch the cookie crumble and remember never to rumble n tumble but to take the high road to constitutional salvation. 

As Lafayette said to the people of France, liberated from 5 years of captivity and banished during the imperial age of Bonapartist rage : I didn't kill during the Terror, I didn't play at Napoleon's stooge, I stood tall and aloof and I waited....until I was called to remove despotism; both in 1815 after Waterloo and in 1830 to rid the nation of divine right Bourbons... Madness never prevails. 


Wed, 11/07/2012 - 02:39 | 2954881 Walt D.
Walt D.'s picture

The Titanic is going down - you may as well stay in the dining room, eat the food, drink the champagne and listen to the band.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 03:17 | 2954946 luckylongshot
luckylongshot's picture

While the Fed claims the debt is $16 Trillion this figure overlooks unfunded liabilities. According to North (2012) if these were added in the debt would be over $200 Trillion and rising at $11 Trillion a year...and even interest free this would require every working American, on their average salary of $50,000, to pay $200,000 per year for 20 years to pay this off....mmmmm good luck Barack!

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 04:54 | 2955050 bk1037
bk1037's picture

As has been long predicted in ZH, the Bernank and his money machine will take care of unfunded liabilities as they need to be funded.

Early spin from the losing Republicans give no quarter or respect to the POTUS on the fiscal cliff or the national debt negotiations. See, the House Reps got a silly notion that they got elected or reelected tonight as well.

Many political junkies seem to regard this dysfunctional bullshit from the Congress as some kind of fucked up entertainment. Until We the People demand better performance from these assholes we elect, nothing is going to change IN EITHER PARTY.

I will argue tonight's results are a repudiation of what the GOP was trying to do, to obfuscate issues, and to obstruct issues such as Obamacare and have tonight amount to a package referendum on the entire set of much of what Obama might have liked to accomplish. Romney did not win and Obamacare will not get repealed, along with some other pet peeves the minority Republicans have been carrying a grudge on for some time now. I am growing a bit tired of hearing their whining, they do not have the political muscle now to govern from the big man's chair. Blacks, women, Hispanics and other minorities are on the rise in the USA, and the white male dominated GOP is in decline from a demographics view. Van Jones of CNN called it best, the notion of an enthusiasm gap on Obama was absolutely and resounding debunked as a myth. This has to frighten the hell out of the GOP powers that be and it should, as they are getting more out of sync with America.

I have voted in elections since 1976 and the only presidential race I have ever lost was Jimmy Carter winning over Gerald Ford when I was 20 years old (which I would do again in a heartbeat if faced with the same choice, Carter was an idiot as a POTUS). I have sided with all winners since including tonight, 9 in a row now. So for some of you dissenters in ZH who think I'm full of crap with my remarks, when you can truthfully say you can match my record on winners then I will listen and offer respect. Until then, I am the only one I know who has won 9 in a row whether you agree with the outcomes or not. And I fully intend to go for 10 in a row in 2016, because I care for who wins whether it seems academic or not.


Wed, 11/07/2012 - 07:42 | 2955163 GCT
GCT's picture

DK I need some of the stuff your smoking.  There was not repudiation of anything.  Nothing changed.  The president is a Dem, the senate is Dem and the house is still Repub. If the repudiation you so illustrate happened they would all be Dem.

Quit drinking the party line. 

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 03:37 | 2954970 TerraHertz
TerraHertz's picture

It 'matters' in the sense that someone soon to be exectuted has a strong curiosity as to whether they'll be beheaded, shot, hung, speared in the spleen, drowned, or boiled alive.


Anyway, I'm pleased with the result. That Ron Paul didn't get on the ballot means he's unlikely to be assasinated. One good man saved.

As for Obomney... ha ha ha. The agonizing farce continues. To the cliff!

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 03:42 | 2954981 goodrich4bk
goodrich4bk's picture

This election DID matter to some people.  It mattered to gays who want to serve in the military and receive the same benefits from marriage as straight people receive.  It mattered to women who want to receive equal pay for equal work.  It mattered to students who are struggling to pay their student loans.  It mattered to homeowners who are current on their payments and just want to get the same low rates that others have regardless of whether they have equity in their homes.  It mattered to vets returning from Iraq, and to our soldiers hoping they will return soom from Afghanistan.  It mattered to autoworkers and the small companies who depend on the auto industry for their jobs, too.

But it is quite clear, Simon, that it didn't matter to you.  Maybe next time you'll get a candidate who will be singularly concerned about the national debt as you are.  And I'll probably vote for him/her, as that affects me and my children a lot more than any of the above issues do.  But for God's sake, you sound ludicrous claiming that this election didn't matter.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 09:04 | 2955413 djsmps
djsmps's picture

It mattered to people who finanaced a home that they couldn't afford, knowing that Obama would try to force FHA to reduce their balance.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 22:53 | 2959166 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

It mattered to people in the military getting adequate equipment instead of cuts, it mattered to people hoping to start small businesses, it mattered to people wanting liberty and freedom from government intrusion in their lives (not that either face of the one party would have given them that).

But, you are correct, it probably mattered most to gay illegals hoping to come here and marry and get some good legal ganga. 


Wed, 11/07/2012 - 04:15 | 2955012 orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

Dem President and Senate.


Republican House.


What's changed?  The square root of zero.


Barry is not a compromising type either.    Let's see if Barry hits the stimulus accelerator - my guess is no - he spent his way to re-election, but there's no more "discretionary" left in the till.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 06:20 | 2955102 Fort
Fort's picture

It is great socialism is winning worldwide, it won in France and Netherlands (Pro euro yeah) and now it won in the US, for socialism is the bane of math it ignores the outcomes of equation and is truly the philosophy of misery. Now with everything rapidly going down the drain we may see not just the end of a 60 year old finance system but also the end of a philosophy that bravely lead this system to destruction. I'd say that is the best news I could ever have hoped for.

Best thing is every true socialist will reap the benefits of his believe in the very near future, of course the market will be blamed once more, but no socialist can deny that it was socialists leading when it all collapsed. Forward and onwards and please ignore the brink that is coming closer and that shields the floor beneath your feet from the abyss beyond.

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 06:55 | 2955123 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture
Bernard: But surely the citizens of a democracy have a right to know.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: No. They have a right to be ignorant. Knowledge only means complicity in guilt; ignorance has a certain dignity.
Wed, 11/07/2012 - 07:18 | 2955126 falak pema
falak pema's picture

try oligarchy despotism instead of socialism and you will read more convincing; kings and oligarchs are first and foremost "me firsts" and only "I'm doing this to save the nation", when "me first" leads to the cliff. 

Now big state is their only card to try and put right the wrongs of oligarchy  "me first" mayhem. Its a card that still has a hidden agenda which remains "me first" behind "we the people accept more and more debt and/or to  pay more and more taxes!"

Spreading the pain once the horse has bolted from open barn is what this is now all about.

Socialism...? Like in Saud Land? Like in Putin Land? 

Wanna see how socialism works in Euro land TODAY? Read this : 

BNP Paribas dépasse les attentes au 3e trimestre, bénéfice net plus que doublé

Now thats how ZIRP and ECB help their Oligarchy friends! Ain't that cute "socialism" ?

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 22:49 | 2959150 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture



Wed, 11/07/2012 - 09:25 | 2955488 boribori
boribori's picture

1. Ask FED to buy all UST debt to drive yields to say 2% at the long end

2. Then FED suggests to the treasury to issue a 200y bullets with total principle of 100,000 billion - this should give about 19 trillion today

3. Roll everything to the bullets and worry about the rapayment in 200 years


Would that solve the issue?

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 10:07 | 2955666 Jim B
Jim B's picture

I agree in some respects, the trajectory can be bent, but only a bit.

My only point of disagreement is the mandatory is mandatory until it is not! 

Hey retires, you WILL have your benefits cut or your benefits reduced by inflation!  This is the only math that works!!!


Wed, 11/07/2012 - 10:32 | 2955768 Captnkirk
Captnkirk's picture

RGR SWHC should be good buys ya think


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