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Guest Post: Another Planet

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by John Aziz of Azizonomics blog,


The losers in elections often take the loss badly. Just as some Gore supporters in 2000 shouted about moving to Canada, some Romney supporters have taken the loss particularly badly too:


And perhaps the most poignant:


All the Republican rage made me think about the origins of America. So much emigration out of Europe to America came out of political and religious or ethnic friction and disagreement with the regimes in Europe (and later, the rest of the world). Many, many Americans are the descendants of Europeans who came to America to practise religion or politics the way they wanted to, and not the way that their nation, or the Catholic church, or a Feudal lord wanted them to.

That same independent-mindedness and the hunger for self-governance was the force that gave the Founding Fathers the chutzpah to finally sever ties with the British Empire in 1776 and strike out on its own as an independent nation.

For those who want to strike out into the unknown in the pursuit of self-governance, such options don’t exist anymore. There is no great sparsely inhabited continent spread out (except perhaps Antarctica which is already claimed-for) for those who want to strike out on their own. Those of a libertarian temperament and with a hunger for self-governance used to come to America. But in the modern, globalised world, where can they go?

Where is the next America? Where is the next land that people seeking self-governance can emigrate to?

One prospective answer has been seasteading — moving out onto floating cities in international waters. Perhaps that will satisfy the desires of a few in the coming years, but not everyone wants to live at sea. It is another frontier, but there are many challenges to overcome. For one thing, governments have navies, and may lay claim to successful floating cities near their waters, seeking new tax revenues. Pirates may pose a similar challenge.

In the much longer term, the answer will almost certainly be leaving the planet. The only uncolonised great new continents left are the ones up in space, on other planets.  There is no more effective or complete way to depart. So it is rather poetic that in the past couple of days a new Earthlike planet in a star’s habitable zone has been discovered.

Via the BBC:

Astronomers have spotted another candidate for a potentially habitable planet — and it is not too far away.


The star HD 40307 was known to host three planets, all of them too near to support liquid water.


But research to appear in Astronomy and Astrophysics has found three more – among them a “super-Earth” seven times our planet’s mass, in the habitable zone where liquid water can exist.


Many more observations will be needed to confirm any other similarities.


But the find joins an ever-larger catalogue of more than 800 known exoplanets, and it seems only a matter of time before astronomers spot an “Earth 2.0? — a rocky planet with an atmosphere circling a Sun-like star in the habitable zone.

The hunger for self-governance led to the birth of America. It seems highly likely, in the very long run, that the hunger for self-governance will be the force that leads not only to local space colonisation (near-earth asteroids, Mars, asteroid belt, the moons of the gas giants) but ultimately deep space colonisation. The private space industry today is already driven by libertarian-leaning individuals like Bert Rutan, Robert Zubrin and Peter Thiel.

Powerful central government drives nonconformists to find ways to escape it. If the only road to self-governance left is up into space, then that is the road that will be taken. In the end, fury over a lost election may be the thing that drives humanity to the stars.


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Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:21 | 2962667 Zer0head
Zer0head's picture


Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:29 | 2962688 CH1
CH1's picture

Sufficiently feasible spacecrafts will be destroyed by the state.

Escape is not permitted.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:42 | 2962730 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

They could have taken Pandora with 1 Central Banker, 1 stack of paper and 1 big bottle of ink. No planes or bombs required

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:56 | 2962743's picture

Why all the angst? It's now official: there is no discernible difference between the 2012 presidential candidates. In fact, they're twins.

A young Kenyan mother has named her newborn twin sons after the U.S. president-elect and his defeated Republican challenger.

Millicent Owuor, 20, gave birth to Barack Obama and Mitt Romney on Wednesday at the Siaya District Hospital in southwest Kenya, according to the Standard

Owuor told the Kenyan news outlet her sons' names will always remind her of the election in the United States.




Apparently it's true that Barack Obama was born in Kenya. But surprisingly, Mitt Romney was too.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:08 | 2962795 economics9698
economics9698's picture

What needs to happen in America is for it to divide.  Miami, North East, Midwest, California, Alaska, Hawaii.  White America will not accept being the slaves of Hispanics and blacks. 

When the Social Security runs dry and the old farts are on their own there will be no reason to stay together as more white people realizes they do not want to work to provide benefits to the below 100 IQ dependent crowd.

That’s the way it has always been and that’s the way America will go.  Diversity always leads to civil war and new nations.  Europe will realize this; England already has had a dose of it with their race riots.  The multicultural nations will fall apart when the money is worthless just like it fell apart in Bosnia and Serbia.

Give the Jews Miami and the Northeast, the Mexicans California, and make the middle USA free and libertarian. 

That’s how it will go down.  Just like in the USSR.  Just like in Yugoslavia.  


Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:10 | 2962824 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

I disagree (although I'm not from there)'s Bread and Circuses all the way.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:12 | 2962834 economics9698
economics9698's picture

When the money is worthless it all changes.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:23 | 2962867 old naughty
old naughty's picture

Or, when the draft is back...

Perhaps tunnels will be built in the north also?

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:28 | 2962881 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

"When the money is worthless it all changes".....I think Roman history refutes that.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 22:10 | 2963006 Lore
Lore's picture

Roman history confirms it in spades!  You've heard of coin-clipping?  Ostraca?  We've slipped down a very old and proven slope.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 23:03 | 2963176 aka Gil
aka Gil's picture

This is the last place on earth.

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 04:28 | 2963671 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

As if human nature would change on another planet?


  • Haves vs. have nots
  • politicial corruption
  • selfish genes


when siblings can't even get along peacefully and fight over inheritance, how can you expect large societies to function optimally?


enjoy your time here. there is no god and 100 years from now, none of this shit matters.

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 05:52 | 2963730 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Enjoy rebelling against your captors today, in a hundred years your grandchildren will not have freedom of speech. They will have the freedom to choose between being enslaved or being enslaved

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 15:23 | 2965555 smiler03
smiler03's picture

Dear John,


It's good to hear that you're enjoying your holiday in Washington.

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 04:02 | 2963571 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

That's my whole point! Roman history has shown us that the system CAN be held together for decades (100-150 years was it?) while coin clipping (currency debasement) was taking place, even as it spiralled out of control it was held together...all they did was distract the citizens...ergo my post, Bread and Circuses!

I disagreed with economics9698 statement because Rome DID in fact hold together while the currency was worthless as they enforced price controls, land taxes, heck, they virtually made the Empire a prison (for land owners) for 75 years or so (sound familiar?)...that's why they were able to get away with debasing for a period far longer than our modern monetary system has even existed (since 1944). "When the money is worthless it all changes" it doesn't, it can be held off for a long time; we're kicking the can aren't we, and who's buying Gold? Certainly not Joe Six Pack, he's watching reality shows on TV and eating McDonalds bought on food stamps (Bread and Circuses)...and don't fool yourselves people, we're walking the same path right now.

Also, Rome's Prision Empire, where land owners who ran away were captured and dumped back on their lands (to grow shit and pay taxes again)...THAT's going to apply to modern property owners who have mortgages outstanding, regardles of equity, asset prices etc if you cannot sell to a greater fool and the economy tanks.

All Rome did to protect itself was to ensure that the Army was paid in pure Gold. In modern terms, that's QE being fed to the Banks, today!

Thanks for taking the time to enage in conversation Lore.

And to the bicycle helmet wearing bus commuting fucktards who diss'd my earlier post without bothering to question it, here's a nice clip to go with tonight's Thorazine injection:

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 05:36 | 2963719 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

No, ShortPlanks. Things move much faster now. Cf. HFT: insider-trading at the speed of light. 

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 06:13 | 2963742 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

Markets are NOT the economy....besides, I'm not talking about a 100 years of debasement, I'm talking about at least 10 years that they'll be able to support, manipulate, restrict, enforce, name it, all for the sake of supporting the system (beyond what's already been done)'ll see.

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 07:47 | 2963803 eclectic syncretist
eclectic syncretist's picture

What concerns me is how long it took between the decline of the Roman empire until something significantly positive happened again (historically speaking).   There were several lost centuries in there.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:36 | 2962901 Karlus
Karlus's picture

And you saw how Rome ended up.

Also, what would Caeser have to say about that? Got nailed because he got too powerful....lesson here

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 00:08 | 2963333 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Jack Vance: "The Beyond? There will always be a Beyond...". 

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 00:48 | 2963403 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

His "Dying Earth" series seems more appropriate.

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 05:37 | 2963721 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

'cept Cugel was white, not black. 

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 13:46 | 2964985 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Maybe he was white because the sun wasn't pumping out enough UV radiation.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 22:08 | 2963000 Louie the Dog
Louie the Dog's picture

Give the Jews Miami and the Northeast, the Mexicans California, and make the middle USA free and libertarian. 

I agree with your post, but Jews in Miami?  You're three decades behind the times.  Hispanics run the ship down here and have for years.  The Jews moved up to Boca Raton years ago.  The spanish have a lock on Miami-Dade county and it's just a matter of a few years before Broward and Palm Beach counties are overrun by the hispanic parasite class.  I'd just concede the state from the lake south and build the wall.

The Balkanization of the US is all but assured.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 23:27 | 2963242 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Translation… let the 138 IQ Jews move to Miami and tell the Cubans how to run the show.  Just as long as the Jews are out of the middle and northern Florida I don’t give a shit.  Let them be compassionate with the 93 IQ crowd.  They are Gods chosen people, they can run Miami.

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 00:30 | 2963370 Nobody For President
Nobody For President's picture

Nope. California gets split into Southern California and Columbia - a.k.a. Evergreen. 

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 01:51 | 2963510 roadlust
roadlust's picture

Forgot about the neo-Nazi celebrants on ZH.  There's always North Korea if you're looking for mono culture facism.  Oh yeah, not White.  Ok, just go to Utah, it's already set up for you.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:02 | 2962796 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

<<<For those who want to strike out into the unknown in the pursuit of self-governance, such options don’t exist anymore.>>>>

Not true. We have been perpetual travelers for years now. Addresses of record in several countries. Incomes from several sources. Three passports and very minimal taxation.

It does require however, to speak a few languages, have marketable skills and above average income for a family. For younger individuals, starting with teaching English overseas and keep moving under the radar (taxwise) does the trick. Make fiends, Find work with international corporations and on and on. After a while it becomes easier and easier.

Just do it.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:15 | 2962844 Doña K
Doña K's picture

In our travels it has been our experience that in many countries, excluding only a few, visitors are treated differently than the locals as foreign exchange is important. Malaysia as an example will bend over backwards to keep you there, even if you have as low as $1500 USD coming in and several years later will offer you passport. Same with Republica Dominicana.

So, I do agree that perpetual traveling is a good option. BTW: Perpetual traveling only means that you leave a country when you sense that it is time to go or if you find a better opportunity. Perhaps you should leave before you sense anything and you can always go back there again. 

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 23:55 | 2962870 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture


Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:24 | 2962871 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

Did you rob honest people in order to 'make fiends'?

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 22:04 | 2962994 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Define honest.

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 00:03 | 2963319 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

just playing on the typo 'fiends' instead of friends...  i would hope honest people became fiends and rise up to being robbed by taxation, etc 

  if you don't, then you're just a chump

we're all stuck being chumps here

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 22:56 | 2963151 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

That has nothing to do with living somewhere where you are not subject to the whims of the state, i.e. somewhere self-governance exists.

I'm not belittling your strategy, if anything I'm jealous, but you're just not arguing apples to apples.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 22:08 | 2963004 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

I say the time has come to take back this planet.

There is nowhere left to run. Time to stand and fight.

Those who would enslave us are not prepared to die inorder to do so.

So we must be prepared to die in order to be free.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 23:06 | 2963182 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

The ideology of non-violence turns men into sheep. Same as ever. Ghandi would be appalled if he saw what has become of his country since independence. Our Founders would as well. The difference is, the latter would not hesitate to do something about it.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:57 | 2962736 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

"Sufficiently feasible spacecrafts "....

I'm sorry, but any chance of the human species (Virus) exploring space has been pissed up against the wall of greed and war long ago. We once had sufficient natural resources to make a good attempt at leaving earth, but alas, we chose the path we've always taken, and partied our arse off. Even L.E.O. is a Pipe-Dream.

We will not be leaving this rock, and that's a good thing for other star systems. It was a gift, and look how we've treated it. Better that we remain chained by physics to this planet and if we make it-we make it, if we don't, well, so long and thanks for all the fish!

PS. Just for the record; all this bull shit about missions to Mars and back to the Moon comes out of NASA's Marketing, Public Relations, and Prospective Budgeting Department, certainly not out of their Reality Department.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:00 | 2962783 Tippoo Sultan
Tippoo Sultan's picture

She came from Planet Claire
I knew she came from there
She drove a Plymouth Satellite
Faster than the speed of light
Planet Claire has pink air
All the trees are red
No one ever dies there
No one has a head

Bizarre article indeed.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:00 | 2962786 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

I bet the Easter Island people partied, too.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:07 | 2962814 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

Yup, and the Myans....interestingly, the native New Zealand Polynesian's actually had eco-stability fishing laws. They knew their shit.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:10 | 2962825 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

The Maori are Bad. Ass.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:30 | 2962886 old naughty
old naughty's picture

Eh, bad asses from Galaxy Command forbids in-humane earthlings to escape from this hellhole (until wrath of Gaia plays out)...


Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:35 | 2962897 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Meh. Once the human race has extinguished itself, something better will come along.

Nature likes to experiment.


Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:44 | 2962928 old naughty
old naughty's picture

Lab rats...

we are.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:56 | 2962952 Jay Gould Esq.
Jay Gould Esq.'s picture

Was this article actually penned by Vinz Clortho, the loyal Keymaster of Gozer, under nom-de-plume ?

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 00:11 | 2963343 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

"It has often been said that, if the human species fails to make a go of it here on Earth, some other species will take over the running. In the sense of developing high intelligence this is not correct. We have, or soon will have, exhausted the necessary physical prerequisites so far as this planet is concerned. With coal gone, oil gone, high-grade metallic ores gone, no species however competent can make the long climb from primitive conditions to high-level technology. This is a one-shot affair. If we fail, this planetary system fails so far as intelligence is concerned. The same will be true of other planetary systems. On each of them there will be one chance, and one chance only."

Sir Fred Hoyle

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 00:04 | 2963321 Kiwi Pete
Kiwi Pete's picture

Shame those eco-warriors killed all the Moa. Every last one! What were they thinking?

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 08:18 | 2963841 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture



The closest star would take 72,000 years to reach with current technology – so yes …. WTF

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:29 | 2962691 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

We should have a poll to see how many days it takes the mainstream media to mention the name Ron Paul. So far it's two days and counting without the name Ron Paul uttered on TV.


Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:37 | 2962710 Wakanda
Wakanda's picture

I think it will take a while for someone in the MSM to openly say the obvious, that Ron Paul sank Romney.  BO for 4 more years is bittersweet revenge for RP and his supporters on the GOP for the way they were treated the last two years.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:52 | 2962759 mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

No-one will ever say it but it's true. The RNC was so shit-scared of RP that they decided Obama was the better choice. The RNC fucked Ron Paul and this is what they deserve. I went to a party thrown by one of my wife's girlfriends. All the chicks voted for Obama because he didn't say "legitimate rape'. They don't have to worry about getting pregnant because Obama only likes anal sex. Bend over, and he aint got no lube.

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 00:28 | 2963349 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

RP's c. 1 million+ actual voters had something to do with the Romney debacle. But remember, Obama was - 10 million votes vs. '08 and the Repubes still could not win. Fact is, thanks to the 'net, there are some 10 to 20 million White HardRight gunsels who can no longer be fooled by Repube Oligarchs running Corporate Socialists (Bush, Dole, Bush, Bush, McCain, Romney) and calling them "Conservatives". With the Brown Tide now submerging Florida, Grand Old Pedophiles are no longer a national party and will go the way of the Whigs. Good-bye and good riddance.  

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 01:22 | 2963452 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Step 1 complete.

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 05:40 | 2963722 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture


Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:58 | 2962776 cpzimmon
cpzimmon's picture

Hindsight is always 20/20. But you know what? Ron Paul could have very well won the election. The Republicans are out of touch...maybe they're the ones who should be looking for a new planet.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:55 | 2962955 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture



Fri, 11/09/2012 - 00:27 | 2963359 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Yessir, moron. The black/brown Free Shit Army, the White gubmint employees, the Zionists, the countryclub lib republicrats, all were just itchin' to vote for 'ol Ron. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL. 

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:41 | 2962907 SillySalesmanQu...
SillySalesmanQuestion's picture

+1 Wakanda, well said.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 22:06 | 2962997 fuu
fuu's picture

Ron Paul did not sink Romney, Romney sank Romney. He can own up to his own failure.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 22:18 | 2963034 Louie the Dog
Louie the Dog's picture

Ron Paul did not sink Romney, Romney sank Romney. He can own up to his own failure.

Correct.  And the RNC didn't sink Ron Paul.  Ron Paul sank Ron Paul.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 22:35 | 2963095 drexlraw
drexlraw's picture

-1 for no sarc/

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 08:51 | 2963906 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

I can't red arrow him either. WTF?

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 12:00 | 2964581 autonomos
autonomos's picture

because of italic font on first letter

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 00:35 | 2963375 fuu
fuu's picture

I'm not sure Ron is sunk. He isn't president but history will treat him better than Mitt or Obama.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:48 | 2962715 Zer0head
Zer0head's picture

he was on with Betty Looo this AM - I'll get the video (unless the scumbags omitted it - BBG are such effing aholes)  - he was okay - better was the mainstream guy who followed him - he agreed


stupid fucking GOP lost the election because they made him an outcast  - the young demographic gets him\

here he is


and here is the money guy that followed him

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:01 | 2962789 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Thanks for the links. Ron Paul's name may have been uttered once or twice in passing on a couple of the big 6 TV media networks, conversation too quickly passed over to merit a youtube video for, and no critical mass whatsoever. A few good articles are surfacing.

Republicans Rage as the Great Burning Arrives

Millions have been exposed to the brilliant, clarified concepts of human action and have come to understand the corrosive effects of the modern central bank business cycle. This knowledge will continue to percolate. It runs like acid through the fragile facade of illiteracy and socialist lies that the power elite constructed over centuries to try to obscure the truth about human relations.

As the veil shrivels and smokes, one cannot look away. Once one begins to understand the truth about how the world works, there is no going back. The shock to the system is profound. It tends to take over one's life. The idea that every nook and cranny of one's consciousness has been controlled and "directed" is an overwhelming concept.

People who come to such conclusions find their lives have changed. It is physically and mentally impossible to ignore it. And it is difficult not to proselytize because the reality is so profound.

For the mainstream media already it is as if the Ron Paul candidacy, which shook the establishment from top to bottom, never existed. But ignoring the candidacy and its violent repression is a bit like trying to ignore the aftermath of an earthquake. The ruin is all around you and trying to pretend it is not there won't make it go away. The political landscape in our view has changed irredeemably, as we long ago believed it would.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:23 | 2962866 Quantum Nucleonics
Quantum Nucleonics's picture

It will be interesting and amusing to see if Ron Paul gets an electoral vote or two from a faithless elector.  I believe his campaign managed to sneak in a couple people onto the Electoral College.

Now that he's out of Congress and getting on in years, I expect Paul to fade from view pretty quickly.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:54 | 2962763 cpzimmon
cpzimmon's picture

The only thing I can say to it is ...WOW...Far out.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:55 | 2962961 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

In the end, fury over a lost election may be the thing that drives humanity to the stars.

Dose Aziz know that in 2008, Bush started the Constellation program to get a man to the moon by 2018.  By 2010, the date had been set back to 2028 and then canceled by Obama.  We cannot even get to the moon by 2028 and Aziz dreams of colonization of distant planets just because of a lost election.

Luckily for Aziz, Marijuana was legalized in a few places.  A cow can jump over the moon and you can jump to your distant planet to escape a lost election.


Fri, 11/09/2012 - 09:58 | 2964119 exi1ed0ne
exi1ed0ne's picture

 "Earth that was could no longer sustain our numbers, we were so many. We found a new solar system, dozens of planets and hundreds of moons. Each one terraformed, a process taking decades, to support human life, to be new Earths."

While unlikely, it is the only real hope left of avoiding the boot smashing into the face of humanity forever.  Launch tech has not advanced much because of the monopoly and iron grip of regulation governments have had on it.  There are several ways to get mass up to 17,000mph. Lighting a large column of explosives being the only one currently used due to it's applicability to project more explosives on far away targets.  It's hard to put a several mile long rail gun on an aircraft carrier.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:57 | 2962765 GraveyardSpiral
GraveyardSpiral's picture

Yeah, that's right Aziz, run away...this is how we got to where we are, everybody runs from tyranny instead of standing against it.  Why the fuck should "we" leave, there is another option.....

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:01 | 2962792 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Fuck the Redcoats, shoot the *#&% suckers

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:13 | 2962841 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Fuck the queen.

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 06:42 | 2963761 JimS
JimS's picture

She's too old.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:42 | 2962913 Karlus
Karlus's picture

Are they wearing camo or Raiders jackets?

Truth be told, i dont think the army would back up the govt if the supply chain fails. Look at NJ, NYC and Crooklyn.

That said, I think their next move is to collect up the rifles. Hard for the Revolution to be Televised without Main Battle Rifles

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 00:38 | 2963371 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Do you own an M1A? Once you have one, you will never give it up in this life. It's what freedom looks like. It is to die for. Fat suburban neo-conz and their little plastic AR BB-guns? Yeah, those'll be handed over. 

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:42 | 2962914 Karlus
Karlus's picture

Dooplicate :)

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:43 | 2962919 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture


Right? I thought this was another Simon Black article.

I wish Simon would go colonise some other space.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 22:43 | 2963099 omniversling
omniversling's picture


No need for a 'new land', just a proper understanding of the one you're in. Are you a creditor or a debtor? Think you know American history? This is a game changer for those who have the patience and interest to sit, view and absorb. 

An alternative to a new land, and a continuance of the 'blueteam/red team meme is to understand the basis of law (commerce & Admiralty) and understand your place in it. Take responsibility for your destiny. Become a creditor. Don't be a debtor. This series of talks in lay terms is an absolute cracker! Enjoy your freedom!


A Freedom Project: Living Temple, Brandon Adams’ Mastery in Commerce Course, Selected Videos


A government captured by corporations, whose executive arm uses force and violence of a militarised 'police' force to control the assets (ex-citizens), is better called Fascist. 'Communism' is an obsolete term that was used to describe the extreme 'Left' political position….something beyond socialism. On the other hand NAZIs were 'National Socialists' and that is an obsolete term for fascists.

Good article here explaining the difference between Communism and Fascism:

Also this article updates the 'definitions' to include today's emergent version, PGF (Pro-Globalisation Fascism).

Deeper definition and genisis of the term Fascism:

Appears to me that the US is going down the road of Fascism, not Communism …China still has the mantle of that, but IMO the longer term plan of PGF is the 'Chinaisation' of the rest of the planet. Those in government who believe that they 'rule the people' rather than 'represent the people' love the China model (no coincidence that the undermining of the US middle class is carried out on the 'offshoring' of manufacturing to China). They'd like everyone on the planet to produce goods for 50c/hour.

"The State not only is authority which governs and molds individual wills with laws and values of spiritual life, but it is also power which makes its will prevail abroad…. For the Fascist, everything is within the State and… neither individuals nor groups are outside the State…. For Fascism, the State is an absolute, before which individuals or groups are only relative…."" – Mussolini

Mussolini, in a speech delivered on October 28, 1925, stated the following maxim that encapsulates the fascist philosophy: "Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato." ("Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State".) Therefore, he reasoned, all individuals' business is the state's business, and the state's existence is the sole duty of the individual.

And just found this very relevant post with excellent references and quotes:
How Amerika Is Evolving Into a Fascist State…

Peace, prosperity, and freedom friends...



Fri, 11/09/2012 - 08:14 | 2963833 onthesquare
onthesquare's picture

You see to have forgotten the 100 million pre USA inhabitants of this continent who had to be exterminated through lies and deceit.

Now everybody knows what George Carlin said "everybody lies"  Opps.  No more naive savages to raped, pillage and murder.  All concurring hoards do it.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:22 | 2962669 Insideher Trading
Insideher Trading's picture

New Zealand.


Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:37 | 2962713 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Whats with the down arrows for new zealand? That was honestly one of my shit hits the fan places. Talk about being in the middle of fkin nowhere. Seems perfect.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:44 | 2962729 PLira
PLira's picture

Whoa there Tonto, it is a "pick your preference spot to go to" post.

Down for Swissy, Up for Kiwi. Common on ZH but sometimes hard to recognize but you knew that.


Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:45 | 2962742 Insideher Trading
Insideher Trading's picture

Down for Switzerland?

I'd like to hear more about the reason behind that.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:01 | 2962790 RSBriggs
RSBriggs's picture

Because there are only two arrows to use when doing a mini-vote, one up and one down?

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:48 | 2962749 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

If I leave the planet can I skype my kid? My facebook status updates would be interesting for at least a week.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:43 | 2962735 Insideher Trading
Insideher Trading's picture


Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:43 | 2962732 imaginalis
imaginalis's picture

El Salvador

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:03 | 2962800 AGuy
AGuy's picture

New Zealand is Socialist and Switzerland is practically a Gestopo state (Nanny gov't gone wild). Both are very small.

While not ideal, Austrialia has some potential, since its about the size of the United states and only has about 22 Million people, and English is the primary language. In the event of a New War, its perhaps the least likely to be wiped off the map. Although, its Gov't is morphing into nanny state.

The biggest problem leaving, is that in order to open a foriegn bank account, an American must give up his\her citizenship, and about 40% of there net worth (exPat Tax). Some countries also impose fees to become a resident.

While the Soviet Union had an Iron curtain to prevent its people from leaving, the US now has a financial curtain designed to prevent people from leaving, or at least leaving with their wealth. I suspect in the near future, additional barriers will be enacted by the US federal gov't to block exit.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:34 | 2962892 Insideher Trading
Insideher Trading's picture

You're a complete fucking twat.

And learn the difference between 'their' and 'there' before you graduate high school. That's a free pro-tip.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:22 | 2962670 you enjoy myself
you enjoy myself's picture

Texas.  no need to find new territory. 

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:29 | 2962690 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I am in for Texas. Live out at sea? Another planet? That's how much muscle a bunch of bankers and government workers have? I have to leave the planet or get run over by the Time Bandit while I am trying to take a shit in the ocean? This is the nuttiest article I have ever seen on here.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:19 | 2962853 vato poco
vato poco's picture

Naw, pardner, you might as well forget about Texas, starting real soon. (and I say this as a born-n-bred Texan.) Texas is still the best place, and Texans are still the best people, but they ain't what they once were, and it's getting worse by the day. Houston, Dallas, S.A. & Austin are clogged with cars bearing their out-of-state-plated newcomers - God forbid you get stuck on the way to Boerne on a Friday afternoon, unless they finally got that damn new road built - and all the newcomers are/will vote for things to be **just the way they were back home**.

IOW, fucked-up. It pains me deeply to say it, but it's gonna happen, gang. Demographics is Destiny. A mere 50 years ago, California was also a very special place. The very best, the very brightest, the very most capable and skilled and creative men in the entire world lived in the Golden Mountain: California. Hell, even a lot of us Texans were secretly envious, although it would never be admitted to. 50 years ago, CA was a solid bastion of great schools, a terrific highway system, amazingly good social services, and a solid lock for the GOP come election time. 50 years ago, Los Angeles had the most white folks population of any large city in America. For real, no shit.

Just 2 generations ago.

And now look at the shithole it's become, and is about to get a LOT worse. It'll happen to Texas, too. I say Texas will be a reliable blue state no later than 2028, and more likely 2024. If you think I'm wrong, take a close look sometime at the city/county governments of Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, & Austin and even, God help us, El Paso. (2nd prize in 'Armpit of USA' derby, after Detroit/Cleveland/St. Louis/Newwark/Gary 5-way tie for 1st.) Democrats all. It's how CA was ruined: they took control of the big cities, and then just outnumbered the small-town rubes, who may as well not bother to vote anymore. Read it and weep. 

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:46 | 2962933 Karlus
Karlus's picture

Problem will solve itself when the grocery supply chain fails and the cities starve and the locusts try to leave. Good luck to Mr. Govt worker trying to get by outside of the city radius. They will die of thirst in the hot hot sun.

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 10:21 | 2964213 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

In 70 years, Texas will be all but uninhabitable.....

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 14:13 | 2965141 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

America, over the last 200 years, suffered the same fate as CA and TX are suffering.

Become successful and wealthy and the hunter-gatherer liberals will find you and destroy you.

In terms of descendants, Europe is not only killing itself, it is killing the US.

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 18:05 | 2966283 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Based on your handle, it is safe to say that you are are whole of all asses....

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 17:53 | 2970750 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

All excited about graduating from sixth grade next June, are you?

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:33 | 2962699 duo
duo's picture

Texas' founders were men escaping the debts of East coast bankers. 

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:23 | 2962674 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Unfortunately, war is easier, and a tried and proven approach.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:05 | 2962808 Abraxas
Abraxas's picture

Exactly! Many tribes left on Earth to rape, rub out and plunder. We're on it like a fat kid on a smarty.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:26 | 2962680 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

For those Repubs thinking of heading to Australia


Eli might also add: To those who are planning on leaving for Central or South America: they speak Spanish there. Jet Blue is offering free flights.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 22:06 | 2962973 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture




No wonder you're such a godamned hard-core 'warmer' (believing member of the CHURCH of AGW) ... reading 'the rabbit' (Josh Halpern) will, and has, warped your mind ...



Fri, 11/09/2012 - 08:55 | 2963915 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

98% of trained scientists agree on what the data is telling them...

Whereas churches tend to be long on belief and short on data if you catch my drift...

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 00:09 | 2963340 Manic by Proxy
Manic by Proxy's picture

Australia has a carbon tax? How progressive. How manly. Was that instituted after or before those rugged Ausholes gave up their firearms without a whimper? Just wondering before I book passage.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:28 | 2962684 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Actually, electoral politics is working very well...

Shame on you for not fielding an electable candidate....

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:51 | 2962755 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Sorry. Did he scare your genitals?

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:03 | 2962801 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

You're a glutton for punishment some days.

But seriously: unless we get warp drive, a new habitable planet, and resident aliens to displace, our Holy Invisible Hand decreed system of competition and growth is nearing its end.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:42 | 2962910 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Getting snowed in is so much fun...

And the Hedge is testament to old adage:

"Whatever does not kill me, only makes me stronger"

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:44 | 2962927 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Can you disclose your location?

I'm here:

This particular exchange is breathtakingly humorous.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 22:36 | 2963098 hangemhigh
hangemhigh's picture


I'm here:

was there....left long ago.......fabulously beautiful, safe??, place with enduring history of resilient, self reliant people.  

them pierced nosed dudes sure had some assymetrical country boy skills.......

peace to you and yours.............   

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 23:15 | 2963214 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

God's own country.

The Nez Perce recently bought a bunch of their old property at the foot of the lake and set it aside as a natural park.

I just visit family, but my Mom is from there.

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 11:14 | 2963912 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

We got 7" of snow in Westchester, NY wed. evening and the roads were a shit show...

The little lady dragged me away to watch an absolute top-shelf PBS documentary on the Cuban Missle Crisis I had DVRed. I wish some of the Hedgies here would learn about Curtis LeMay. Kennedy was brilliant and one cannot help but be impressed by the rationality of Nikita with MAD staring him in the face...

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 00:01 | 2963314 Manic by Proxy
Manic by Proxy's picture

And profoundly and deeply shame on you for fielding your electable candidate.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:28 | 2962686 Lost Wages
Lost Wages's picture

You could have pipe dreams of leaving the planet, or you could live in a sane, sustainable manner now and revert back to a more primitive form of life over the next 300 years. The indigenous lifestyle is the only lifestyle that has worked over the long term (at least 10,000 years), so find the last remaining tribes and try to salvage whatever is left of this filthy rock floating through space. It's all you've got. Everything else is just theoretical.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:29 | 2962689 knowless
knowless's picture

i'm a single issue man, and that issue is moon bases..

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 22:02 | 2962980 vato poco
vato poco's picture

I was gonna go with "Tits" as my single issue, but that moon bases thing is good, too.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 23:51 | 2963290 Karlus
Karlus's picture

Tits are for babies. Legs....well legs are for men

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 00:49 | 2963406 CompassionateFascist
Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:30 | 2962693 Zer0head
Zer0head's picture

and as for the seasteading BS

it's been here for years and is called

a guy I know has two condos on the tub, one for him and the misses

and one for guests he spends three months (aggretate) on it and would live on it most of the year if circumstances permitted

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:30 | 2962694 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

And once you're up there who sends the food?

Nah, there's no escape from this roach motel at current levels of technology.

Texas sounds like a good bet right now.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:35 | 2962709 CH1
CH1's picture

there's no escape from this roach motel at current levels of technology.

Excuse me???

Twelve guys came and went from the moon with forty year old tech.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:48 | 2962751 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Tell us all how well Biosphere 2 went/is going.

All this living off-world/terraforming shit is a bunch of pipe dreams that will never happen.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:57 | 2962772 CH1
CH1's picture

Biosphere? Who said anything about that joke?

You think there are zero habitable planets among the trillions of candidates? You have some kind of crystal ball!

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 00:20 | 2963355 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

How many of those habitable planets can we get to?  ZERO.  The Moon is child's play compared to Mars and that's right next fucking door.  Other stars?  Please.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:52 | 2962758 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Best to learn some Spanish before heading to TX, tho.  It won't be too long before the Latinos control most of the territory.  Just like the olden days.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 22:12 | 2963019 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Spoken like "the soft bigotry of lower expectations" NE fucktard you are.

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 11:03 | 2964333 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

That response is batshit crazy, bro.  I realize I make you angry, but you should consider taking a breath before venting at me. 

I suggest you learn the language of the residents of ANY area as a COURTESY.  It's about having some respect for your neighbors.  Just like immigrants to the USA should learn some English.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:31 | 2962696 ShortTheUS
ShortTheUS's picture

We can call it Planet Zero Hedge.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:37 | 2962712 CH1
CH1's picture

I second the motion. :)

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:34 | 2962703 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Those who want America to become like Europe should move to Europe and STFU.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:39 | 2962720 e-man
e-man's picture

I've been saying the same thing for years!  Many people in the US seem to believe we can have a socialist society with all the benefits of capitalism.  That's not how it works.  Ever. 

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:56 | 2962767 Zer0head
Zer0head's picture

we are china

 no independent judiciary

no independent media

now maybe our land is not being confiscated by corrupt bureaucrats but our savings sure as fck are (the land will follow)

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:35 | 2962706 jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

November 1, 2012 "FIRST ON CNN: Iranian jets fire on U.S. drone"

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:03 | 2962797 worbsid
worbsid's picture

The message here; OMG they did not hit the drone.  Man if you can't hit a drone that doesn't even know you are shooting, how the hell are you going to hit a Isreal jet that doesn't want to be hit and might even turn.  No sweat guys, they told us all we need to know about the Iranian AF.  Now if they miss a drone with a missle ... good to go! 

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 23:55 | 2963296 Karlus
Karlus's picture

I would be suprised if they could even get a missile lock on a drone. I cant imagine that little 115hp 4 banger puts out as much heat as a vintage VW bus

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 01:04 | 2963434 Isotope
Isotope's picture

According to the article, they were using SU-25s. That is a dedicated ground attack aircraft. So I'm not surprised they couldn't hit it. Not to mention that if that's all they had for the attack, their air to air capability is even worse than I imagined.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:39 | 2962714 tooriskytoinvest
tooriskytoinvest's picture

Hathaway: Gold Setup To Super-Surge To New All-Time Highs

U.S. Continues Descent Toward Third World Status; Loses Top 10 Position Among Most Prosperous Countries

Ron Paul & Jim Powell: It’s Now Officially Too Late To Avert Disaster. We Cannot Get Enough People In Congress In The Next Five-10 Years Who Will Do Wise Things. President Barack Obama Getting Re-elected Sets The Stage For Another Great Depression THE INVISIBLE EXPERIMENT WITH MONEY AND GOLD
Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:39 | 2962716 flacorps
flacorps's picture

Abandoned whaling stations on South Atlantic Islands. Do *not* dig for the underground pyramid!

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:41 | 2962725 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Planet HD 40307 will be inhabited with flying leeches that if removed take an ounce of flesh with them.

Not much different than living with Wall Street and Washington, but maybe the flora and fauna will be worth it.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:41 | 2962726 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

People, sometimes, need to just STFU... (Including myself)...

So ~ sorry for this post...


Fri, 11/09/2012 - 01:17 | 2963444 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

I was gonna reply to your post but then figured I'd STFU and deleted it.

So, this isn't a reply... just letting you know that I considered your advice and STFU.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:44 | 2962740 JR
JR's picture

Leaving the planet is not an option for those of us who must deal now with a great nation that's gone off track; it would seem that the best approach would be to get started fixing this one.

What I’ve just said regarding Rosie’s statement below that “If Obama caters to those who voted for him, then we can certainly expect populist policies to be the hallmark of his second term,” could be said here also.

This reelected government is hardly populist. A populist approach would have been Ron Paul: opposed to war, favoring common sense government,t and complete honesty about positions and never changing.

Obama is not a populist president; he’s a socialist dictator and a close associate of the bankers. He favors the cartel establishment that gives him the power and in order to operate his Administration, he lies about his positions and his situation.

And, btw, he is not moving along with the recovery; he is now going to be faced with dealing with the lies the bankers and Bernanke have used to keep the stock market up, the latter one of the few arguing points on some kind of recovery.

There isn’t any realistic recovery. We have extreme, horrible unemployment; small business is on the rocks; savers have been deprived of their saved labor; private pensioners have been betrayed by government-privileged corporations; America’s manufacturing base is gone, and the only leverage Rosie’s hopefuls have used for the recovery is government funding and redistribution.

And that’s hardly a good point for Rosie to stand on, or a reason for old men to dream dreams of seasteading.

My point is, we are now witnessing a huge split in the Republican Party between those who want to stand on conservative principles and those who want to become a companion party to the Democrats in order to help its leaders stay in Washington. This fight in the Republican Party is one of the good results coming out of the election because the Republican Party has been commandeered by the same operatives who commandeered the Democrat Party—both wings of the same bird of prey.

It is time to take America back; not leave her.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 21:07 | 2962817 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Makers vs. Takers?


I knew all that talk about "class warfare" being a bad thing was just politeness.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 22:08 | 2963001 JR
JR's picture

Yes, tax users versus tax payers.

But it’s not class warfare. It’s not class against class when you oppose illegals from coming in and breaking the law, starting by subverting the law and causing you to give up what you’ve worked for in order that they can take it free.

It’s not class warfare when you oppose Hispanic-Americans who favor illegal entry into the country, one-way open borders from Mexico into the US and amnesty in the US for all Mexicans.

To oppose illegal entrants coming into America to receive free benefits and/or to undermine US wages is not opposing a class; this is legal against illegal; law against lawlessness; this is hard work and property against robbery.

And to oppose people who are voting Democrat in order that they can support a different culture, a culture which among other things believes in higher taxes on people who have developed property and wealth, is not class warfare, it is love of country, culture and economic justice.

BUT, there has been a media campaign which can only be called class warfare; and it’s a class warfare of identifying European white males and white voters as being selfish about their property and values. Here is an example from this morning’s San Jose Mercury News:

“Just as the GOP years ago backed itself into a political-minority box in California by appealing to a vocal but shrinking base of white male voters while alienating other groups, many Republicans on Wednesday admitted they now face the same outcome on a national level unless they radically alter their strategy.

"’The national Republican Party is following the path of the California GOP, which means they're doomed unless they can find a way to reach not only Hispanic and Asian voters, but also women and even gays and lesbians,’ said Terry Christensen, political science professor emeritus at San Jose State University…

Obama didn't simply thump Romney in Tuesday's election, by winning Electoral College-rich battleground states like Ohio and Virginia. He exposed the faulty wiring of a Republican party that must win over Hispanics, Asians, women and young people as Obama did so dramatically in the polls.

“Along with strong majorities of black, Latino and Asian voters, Obama won 60 percent of voters under 30; among women, the president took 55 percent of the vote; while Romney won 52 percent of men…

"’I think the Republican party made a decision, and they were very well aware of it, that they can try to win this election without the minority vote, to push that white vote as best they can," [Arnold] Torres [a Sacramento political analyst and strategist] said. ‘If you look at those rallies, there was no color, no rainbow, nothing except white voters.’"

In 1994, California voters voted 59 to 41 percent to approve Proposition 187, the “Save Our State” Initiative that said California residents were not responsible for the schooling and health care of illegal aliens. It also stepped up labor law and border enforcement. It was overturned by one Federal judge.

California’s Latino population was 4.5 million in 1980; in the  first post-2010 US Census, California’s Hispanic population grew to 14.4 million or 38.2%; California’s white population fell to just under 15 million or 39.7 percent.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 22:39 | 2963105 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

It sucks to be the victim.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:46 | 2962745 ultraticum
ultraticum's picture

Funny I haven't seen nullification or outright seccession mentioned here.  Your chances are way better in the "American Redoubt", the "flyover states", or the non-urban south of finding like-minded, independent, self sufficient people than they are in Australia or Switzerland for Christ's sake. 

But if you must flee (and I wouldn't blame you), flee to a corrupt, inept banana republic in South America or Asia where the police state is also a joke - unlike here in Obamney's AmeriKa.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:46 | 2962746 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Hey, America did long exist before 1776. They can't blame Obama for there retarded education.

Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:52 | 2962757 f16hoser
f16hoser's picture




Thu, 11/08/2012 - 20:54 | 2962764 Racer
Racer's picture

Maybe the US states should and will take it upon themselves to govern themselves as individual countries instead of the mess that is currently the USSA ruled by despotic corporations and tyrants that can murder at will with no prior trial as to guilt... aka the us president!

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