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Ron Paul: "Pure Democracy Is Dangerous"... When It's Purchased
From an outright libertarian, the headline seems contrary; but Ron Paul's affirmation that "pure democracy is dangerous" critically confirms what Romney accidentally admitted: that enabling the majority to dictate the minority is a problem when the majority are receiving a [government] check. Bloomberg TV's Betty Liu looks a little shocked when the thoughtful Paul confirms bluntly that the reelection of Obama is driven simply by 'the people' being on the 'receiving end' of government benefits and that the US is "so far gone; we're over the cliff already." From Boehner and the lack of credibility in Washington to GOP's 'acceptance' of higher taxes and why he quit Congress, Ron Paul succinctly reminds many of the true state of the union in which we live...
Paul on Boehner's address to Congress on the fiscal cliff:
"Well, there are a couple of things in there. The problem is, there is no credibility. What I run into going around the country is that people I talk to generally do not believe anything they hear. Someone said we want to work together, fine. We will not raise taxes. They do not believe that. It goes on and on. They're just looking for the truth. They say all we need is a little compromise. No one expects that because they do not admit the truth. The truth is that we are broke. How do you compromise? They only way you are going to compromise if you agree on what to cut. Instead they're trying to find out how they will agree on what they will protect. I do not think I have heard the answer. They talk about this fiscal cliff, but in my mind I work with the assumption we are already over the cliff, we're just wondering how we're going to land…it is unsolvable because you have to cut spending."
On whether there's any circumstance where the GOP would accept a type of tax increase:
"I do, but they're not in Washington. They're outside of Washington. I talk about it all the time. The few people I could work with, like a Dennis Kucinich and others, we had coalitions. We agreed to come together say on militarism. Why do we need to spend more than everyone else put together? You bring coalitions together of progressives and libertarian conservatives and say yes we have to cut across the board. Right now they say compromise on preservation of certain programs, but you have to get together and bring people together of different viewpoints. I do not call that compromise because I do not think anyone should sacrifice their principles. But there's no reason in the world you cannot get progressives and libertarians to agree on some of these cuts and spending we do not need."
On what he'd need to see in order for Congress to come together and approve on some kind of deal:
"As long as they move in the direction of less government. Maybe taking their oath of office seriously…That is long gone. We're so far gone. We're over the cliff. We cannot get enough people in congress in the next 5-10 years who will do the wise things. We have to prepare for having already fallen off the fiscal cliff. it is like what is going on in Greece. Every day you hear of a solution and things pop up, but they are in debt and spend too much money and then the people go out in the street and demonstrate. Romney was hit because one issue he was correct on, he was opposed the bailouts, and the people in the Midwest voted against him. Oh, we have to be taken care of! So that vote was sort of like what we are laughing at in Greece. Those 80,000 people do not want anything cut, they will not compromise. It is the people that are that way. That is why our revolution is significant. We're trying to change people's minds. That is why changing the minds of young people is so important."
"If you look at the numbers and the way pure democracy works, pure democracy is dangerous. The majority dictates against the minority. Right now the majority are receiving a check. That is why people were sort of surprised with these conditions that the president could get reelected. That is a bad sign in that there are more on the receiving end. People do not want anything cut. They want all the bailouts to come. They want the Fed to keep printing money. They do not believe we of gone off the cliff or are close to going off the cliff. They think we can patch it over, that we can somehow come up with a magic solution. You cannot have a budgetary solution if you do not change what the role of government should be. As long as you think we have to please the world and run this welfare state, all we will argue about is who will get the loot. "
On why he quit Congress:
"I think people had enough of me. I do not have much confidence in the political system and never did. My goal has always been to change people's minds because as long as people demand more government, they will get it. Government reflects the people. That is why I am excited to go to college campuses and I will continue to do that. That's where I will get a lot of support and they are saying, I agree with you, we do not need more government, we want more freedom and we want to be able to keep our own money. We want sound money. If you have sound money coming in you do not have deficits because you cannot print more money."
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Blame it on the Chemtrails. It's just a side effect.
Not even close ... to MDB.
He is right again, its time to bail on my generation, baby boomers, and concentrate on raising a new generation of great liberty loving men and women that can build something from the ash heap.
We went over the Thee Cliff in 2008, Around the same time I first saw those squirel wing suit guys...
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=wingsuit%20fatality%20video&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.break.com%2Fusercontent%2F2008%2F3%2Fwingsuit-fatality-478451&ei=NHKcUL-4O4aa9gSbi4DIAQ&usg=AFQjCNEwsKgN9j0V_WtJMeMObA5w9Niosg
Event horizon has been passed. Prepare for impact!
God I love me some Ron Paul. Why couldn't we have leadership like this?
...because, the people are not only delusional and the nation is bankrupt as a result, the people are also morally bankrupt silly. They actually showed up to reelect a scumbag like this jerk, who could not pass a TSA security clearance, and some Magic Underwear, Baptise the dead eternal marriage freak that road the beast better than Rosemary's Aborted Drag Queen Baby.
Give Us Barabas
I spent the last 5 years financially supporting Ron Paul and getting his message out. His message is spreading, but I fear the country is too far gone. My write in for Paul was my protest vote against the corrupt two party system.
I wrote him in too. Only reason I voted. Oh and to vote yes on prop 37 which the masses were fooled into voting down.
Mainly because Citizen's United has upped the price of the Oval Office to a billion... for now.
grow up
.
we will go to war with iran before the facists raise your fucking taxes
If only you could buy a little gasoline in NY/NJ as easily as you can buy some democracy.
http://tradewithdave.com/?p=13213
I still think the good guys in the military will offer Ron Paul a temporary seat in the Oval Office after they arrest the Golfer in Chief.
...Americans are now a majority voting demographic that have accepted the mark of the beast, just like Europa etc... and they have done it right on time with prophecy. The dumbshits are so blind that they can't even see the fulfillment of the mark of the beast, with their account number, SS number, tied to the Federal Reserve Debt Note with George Washington's image on it, tied to the number 666 that Sodom Hussein said is the symbol of America, over his shoulder ...through the White House window, after they placed the 100% debt to GDP 16 trillion debt mark upon labor. These morons do not have understanding, can't count past zero interest, and they place the stinking mark of the beast in their tax exempt church baskets, as if they are not the poor bastards, on Sunday because some Pope Dope ''changed'' the Sabbath to a pagan Sun (g)od day.
P.S. Go ahead Mr. Down Arrow, and explain how this is not true, and if you will, please explain what scriptures back your objection(s) up, please.
P.S.S. ...and if you will, explain the Occult Masonic 2012 666 bullshit on the dollar and measured in the Washington Monument. I'd really like to hear that one explained by you.
"The Fiscal Cliff"
Budget deficits are causing the US to go bankrupt, but yet "the fiscal cliff," or, in other words, cutting the budget deficit, is what's causing all this stir. So, according to the mainstream, just trying to cut deficits a tiny little bit will lead to destruction.
It's time to realize the endgame is upon us. Reducing budget deficits is politically impossible. QE4 is just around the corner. Take advantage of the greatest transfer of wealth now, or forever hold on to your blindness in being unable to see that a 1.58% 10 yr bond yield for a far beyond broke country is a bubble and the bursting of the bond bubble will lead to the collapse of the worldwide monetary fiat ponzi.
Kotlikoff estimates over $200T in unfunded liabilities. Not "going BK", we are and just haven't been called on it. Like a unemployed, underwater-homemoaner with some room left on his CC. We can't pay what we owe but continue to borrow... Romney, Obomber same snaker, just different heads. Romney's math didn't work and Obomber has been a teriible president. Now we get 4 more years toward globalism and more loss of freedome. When the USD blows up, there will be screams for global taxes and a global currency b/c individual coutries cannot be trusted. Obomber will give us more gov't and shit like carbin taxes instead of energy independence and smart grids. Obomber is a tool, but so is Romney.
Yup, long past bankrupt. But this fiscal cliff is freaking everyone out...strange.
But it's not strange when you look at it like a ponzi scheme. A ponzi must bring in more and more suckers at an ever increasing rate...so to slow down the piling on of debt is a threat to the debt/fiat/currency ponzi.
Very good post.
And, IMO, the looters are in for a very rude awakening – mainly, the closing of the purse.
A few million people just learned the truth this week, finally. And that is that the number of people riding the wagon are outnumbering the number of people pulling the wagon. And this revelation will make the latter look at each other and say, we need to stop pulling the wagon until more people get off to help.
IOW, the source of the value being used for bailouts and so-called stimulus, for handouts and free incomes, is rapidly drying up and the evidence can be seen in the true picture of America’s economic condition and the collapse of her free enterprise supply and demand economy.
Further unreasonable demands on this engine of American enterprise and the engine will overheat and break.
So good luck, tax users, on unlimited, noncompetitive, government services such as Obama’s 2,700-page, ever-expanding, health care plan that’s to cost bankrupt Americans $634 billion as a first down payment – a non-ending bonanza for the giant international health and insurance industry, and a back breaker for America’s small business base – America’s largest employer and the backbone of the nation.
"... we need to stop pulling the wagon until more people get off to help."
OH!
I'm sure that you are refering to bank, insurance and ponzi players who are sucking on the gov. tit.
It’s one thing to take the money; it’s more serious to pretend you didn’t. If the shoe fits, wear it.
Ron Paul. The Think Tanks are against him. The Think Tanks are nary mentioned in the media
Haha! Old doddering fool never used the word "Constitution" once in that rant. He's finally learning that it is dead, a relic that belongs in a museum. And we are moving to a progressive centralized system where people get what they need and are given a fair chance. This is the modern age man! We are smart people and can organize the distribution of wealth to maximize the net prosperity.
Why, forsooth, man, ye surely aren't serious. For I have a jolly big Constitution right here in my pocket, and for enough silver I just might let you see it.
Ah, yes, Karl Heinrich Marx, Ashkenazi Jew along with Einstein, Sigmund Freud and Golda Meir, in his own heavy German accent espousing revolutionary socialism under Marxist concepts… "Jeder nach seinen Fähigkeiten, jedem nach seinen Bedürfnissen!"
Lenin/Trotsky/Stalin = 65 million dead. Mao/Red China = 65 million dead. America = ?
Don't worry, one billion+ cartridges are available to make it happen here, too.
Heh. This Zero Hedge place is starting to get good. What a string of delightful posts just this evening.
In the decline of an Empire the voices of reason are usually seen as madness, and the voices of madness as reason.
It sucks he's cool and gets dissed constantly.
I pledge my allegiance, to the FLAG, of the United State of America.
AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS.
Basically, I Pledge allegiance to...
--- REPUBLIC, to attain - LIBERTY, JUSTICE (for who?) FOR ALL -
-Notice the entire pledge doesn't mention Democracy once...-
In a Democracy, The Majority decides what can be done. (ie in the name of "For the Good of the Many", We are taking your.... {fill in your own asset here, ie land, etc.) )
In a Republic, The Majority cannot transgress upon the rights of the INDIVIDUAL(waco, etc).
True, 'tis a republic; apparently that only slows down the majoritarian train wreck. A. Rand once wrote an interesting piece "Rule By Consensus; The New Fascism". Worth a peek if you can find it.
Can zerohedge please find some statistics proving that "majority is on the receiving end"?
Thanks.
Why the fuck does ZeorHedge still give this clown the time of day anymore? HE GAVE UP!!!! His own SON SOLD HIM OUT!!! You people are clueless....
Hey Paul- you missed your chance to start a third party- Bu Bye.....
http://www.tomatobubble.com/id145.html
There are reasons to question the decisions made within the Ron Paul camp. He may have been allowed to fill a void so no one else would.
The election was always about the makers vs the takers.
Working Americans: 63%
SS and Medicare beneficiaries: 18%
Percentage IRAQ veterans receiving disability payments: .05%
INHO, all of the above are makers. They constitute over 81% of the population.
Now, who exactly are the takers? Welfare recipients are 4.3 million, or 4.1% of the population.
Anybody else?
I can think of a few in the rentier class who do nothing but take. But I suspect you would not agree.
One of the hardest things about learning how to trade is not the volume of what you have to learn, or the even more vast volume of the things you have to unlearn and ignore, it's the fact that trading is counterintuitive and conditional. So it is with great reluctance that I share with you that the truisms in life are also conditional. I am not a young man anymore, but this has been the hard lesson for me in the markets, in politics, and in everything else. Context matters, in everything. Honor and duty and "truth" are just rationalizations to get you to follow orders when it is the wrong thing to do in a particular situation, otherwise you'd do what they wanted anyways, because it's the right thing to do.
When Ron Paul says that pure democracy is dangerous when purchased, and we are at the mercy of the mobs, he's absolutely right. However, that's a prospective analysis. Who is to blame when we are already here? Don't be an overconfident young fool like I was and blame the mob. This isn't a classroom, mob rule isn't what got us here, and we have been betrayed. I suspect it was engineered. So why blame the victims?
Mob rule is what you have on the rolling deck of a dying ship. All of these pathetic wretches are just trying to save themselves or their loved ones. None of them had the power to bring this about and we, who consider ourselves informed, are still so conditioned by the system that we blame them. We won't see mob rule so much as mob panic, because the ship is sinking.
This was an organized campaign to bring about our downfall. I do not for a moment entertain the belief that this could happen by accident, at the same time, in every country, all over the world, without a little poke to push it to fruition. How much of it is a coordinated power grab and how much is just the self destruction of a decadent society, and/or the contraction of a Kondratiev wave, history only knows.
Smiddy:
I don't know how long you worked on that set of observations, but they are insightful. I've been stuggling for years to integrate libertarianism with my own 56 years of experience and you gave me a perspective tonight I had not previously considered --- that what appears right in the classroom, in the abstract and in principle doesn't always seem just in the real world. I see what you mean --- that what makes perfect sense prospectively doesn't always provide an answer to the questions we face right now. And I couldn't agree more that the mob is the result of, not the cause of, our economic collapse.
Right On Jack Napier! Ron Paul could not make it as a MD in Texas and grifted his way into a cushy gubmint job in Congress! Please people, we do not need any more doctors elected to Congress! They are all right wingnut assholes! Look at Paul's son - He could not pass the board exam for opthamology to get certified, so he starts his own board and certifies himself? Then he gets elected by some dimwit neanderthals in Kentucky to the Senate? Please keep doctors out of Congress!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dead Wrong, baldlieski.
A graduate of the Duke University School of Medicine, [Rand] Paul has been a practicing ophthalmologist in Bowling Green, Kentucky, since 1993, and established his own clinic in December 2007.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rand_Paul
A native of the Pittsburgh suburb of Green Tree, Pennsylvania, [Ron] Paul is a graduate of Gettysburg College and Duke University School of Medicine, where he earned his medical degree. He served as a medical officer in the United States Air Force from 1963 until 1968. He worked as an obstetrician-gynecologist from the 1960s to the 1980s, delivering more than 4,000 babies. He became the first Representative in history to serve concurrently with a child in the Senate when his son Rand Paul was elected to the United States Senate for Kentucky in 2010.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul
Because lawyers are so much better at leading the country and not running up crushing levels of debt.
moron
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.
Benjamin Franklin
As a Brit I feel sad that USA did not pick Ron Paul.
He could have been the greatest US President ever, a true Statesman in the mould of Winston Churchill and Margaret Thatcher.
A no compromise seeker for the truth.
'aerofan' from George Orwell's Airstrip One,
Ron Paul rejects Zionism, and foreign wars funded by the blood and treasure of U.S. citizens.
Churchill and Thatcher embraced it, as subjects of the Rothschild managed House of Windsor (German) monarchy.
Get your facts straight, serf.
My comment is not anti-Semite. It is anti-corporatist, anti-anything that threatens the Republic.
it was an unintended pejorative compliment. lighten up, sheesh.
British serfs have no credibility. They are pets of the EUSSR. Their hideous New Liebor and New Conservatives - subjects of the Queen - bury their mistakes in foreign fields, killing troops for their oil deals.
Britain is a monarchist quagmire, and the majority are serfs there.
The Republic of the USA has a different history and agenda and future...if it is defended by patriots at home, rejecting the old world.
Ron's conspiracy theory needs a little tweaking. Slackers on the Social Security dole went for Romney 55-45.
Your definition of conspiracy needs a little less tweaking. I didn't hear Paul say that voters were illicitly in contact with each other in order to bring some plot to fruition. Did you?
con·spir·a·cy/k?n?spir?s?/ Noun:Since when 'americans' apply this definition of conspiracy?
Even public plans are conspiracies to 'americans' as they can not admit that the current situation is the result of 'americanism'. Something has to go wrong, everything but 'americanism'.
Made me laugh much judicious richlywise .
Since when do Chinese Citizenism citizens apply this definition of flush toiletism conspiracy?
Even public shittings are conspiracies to Chinese Citizenism citizens as they can not admit that their current mode of roadside defecation is the result of traditional, ancient Chinese Citizenism. Something has to go "splat', anywhere but in the toilet.
I dont know. Ask the chinese. This site is full of fine specimens of 'americans', you'll have a hard time finding an answer.
But that would require to move the fantasy to chinese held site. Ummm, 'americans' like it easy.
Oh, yes, by the way, word is that the new chinese lead is an 'american' himself. Loves 'america', the ideas, the movies etc
'Americanism' is spreading everywhere. Going to be hard for US americans to admit they no longer face different people in chineses but fellow 'americans'...
Since you are a Chinese Citizenism troll, I thought that it was only natural and logical to direct the question to you. But as usual, you only know how to evade, misdirect and lie.
Lie down with pre-wokked dogs , rise up covered in roadside turds --- no reason to expect anything else from Chinese Citizenism ....
AnAnonymous squatted and squeezed this out:
Avoidance of self indiction is a big thing in Chinese citizenism.
Lets recap:
Reading a few comments here, one can already notice that Chinese citizenism citizens are weaseling their way out.
The slope taken by Chinese citizenism citizens is going to be fruitful.
Kind of stuff that Chinese citizenism citizens shall provide in the future.
How is it stupid? Save through Chinese citizenism authority?
It is never stupid to assess whether a conclusion can be accepted or not.
The conclusion that resource depletion, farming of extortion, weakening the poor has Hantastic causes can not be accepted by Chinese citizenism citizens.
Useless to spend time trying to push forward valid conclusions when they can not be received.
Ah, ah, classic Chinese citizenism offuscation and denial. Everything to kick the can, everything to avoid self indiction. Once again, cheap offuscation, submission to fabled past, inability to self indiction, more fantasy, more empty talking. Unable to speak about themselves, unable to speak about what they do, always compelled to forge tales, well, those are Chinese citizenism citizens.
Chinese citizenism citizen actions are never clear cut, they have to be controversial at best. When a Chinese citizenism government does something, call them 'americans' in order to push blame to a convenient exterior, even when interior.
Nice. Wooo, so relieving.
Only after he promised them he wouldn't change a dime of their SS or Medicare so long as they are over 55. He was handing them a bunch of "free stuff" at the expense of the under 55.
Things just might fester faster.
'...enabling the majority to dictate the minority is a problem when the majority are receiving a [government] check...'.
That is the most important point. The USA is unique. It was built as a Republic, not a democracy - that thing used and abused by corporatists who bribe voters with other people's money (not theirs).
The vote should only be given to American born people who have served in the military, made jobs, paid tax or have an unimpeachable record of charitable service in their local community. LOCAL community, not grandstanding bull$shit like the Red Cross and FEMA which failed Staten Island, as just one example.
CBS nightly TV news reported that a black boy of college age in Rockaway, NYC (or Staten Island, sorry forget which place) mobilised local teenagers to deliver flash lights and basic goods to everyone they could walk to and knock on the door, handing over the goods, often going out in dark lit only by flash lights themselves, dear souls that they are.
Where did they get the goods? The smart young man utilised social networks like Facebook and put out a call to anyone. The goods arrived, and he mobilises his young friends to distribute them.
These are children, FFS. FEMA offices closed due to bad 'weather', and the Mayor of Manhatten continues to prioritise Wall Street, not New York including Staten Island and the Rockaway.
Democracy works - until too many people figure out how to shake down others; something for nothing; money for nothing and chicks for free.
The Republic requires people who sincerely care for their community and work for it, come hell or high water...like that young man in Rockaway NYC (or Staten Island), and many others who share his sense of giving to community, and taking less from Big Brother failed corporatist two-faced lying useless central government.
Taxes are collected at every purchase at every level. Those tax dollars are collected to pay for a functional infrastructure which can withstand the occasional diseaster. The economy is a different beast and the insistance that people take care of themselves when there are no jobs is just ludicrous.
The banks are not lending to small businesses, to hire employees, so that every other friday, wives everywhere go shopping on Main Street. Until the banks open up lending, money will not move and taxes will not be collected.
This calamity is not because of lazy Americans, it is already been discussed what outsourcing and illegal labor is doing to the working class.
Poverty is a weapon. I have yet to meet a man who isn't talkign about work within 10 minutes of a conversation with him. Work defines people. Govt assistance is the last stop before the gutter. And if you have kids, you do what you have to, event HFCS bloated Americans who haven't walked farther than from the house to the car in 10 years have a sense of pride and their accomplishments is where it comes from, their work day.
This eager painting of the people who are faced with joblessness, futures that hold absofuckinglutely no hope, depleted savings, pensions, real estate values as creators of their own demise did one thing and only one thing wrong - voted for the politicians who promised them the world on a buy-now-pay-later scam for decades. Politicians are the whores who said anything required to get elected. This is a failure of leadership due to unabashed greed. Ordinary citizens depend on their leaders for direction and motivation, otherwise, what is the point? Why have a president if he isn't a leader of the people? A board of directors would do.
bunny...
The Western world has the most expensive wide ranging government known to humankind, yet that government still wages endless war, underpays and berates or patronises the troops, and kills the people at home and abroad in record numbers.
Central government and corporatists are the problem - not the solution.
Miscontrued the meaning of my post. What is the purpose of a govt if not to steer the ship while citizens go about the business of maintaining sound communities, generating tax revenue and keeping it honest?
What Ron Paul did advocate is giving each state the ability to enact laws according to their voters' preference.
Corporatism is a problem, cannot agree more, but due to deregulation and intense lobbying efforts which have been a success. It's a hostage situation now.
Regulations are written by corporations for corporations. Why do you think that's a good thing?
Central government and corporatists are the problem - not the solution....
Charybdis and Scylla, they always have been the problem AND the solution.
Thats the conundrum, we can't go back to feudal, autonomous city/rural lifetimes, as the arrow of technology has made our world and nation constructs more and more integrated. That is the march of civilization, you can't deny that.
So centralisation and decentralising is a constant on-going dialogue between government, people and the entrepreneurial oligarchs; the movers and shakers. People, being the citizens to the elected and consumers to the entrepreneurs, have an important place in this dialogue which they have lost...as the world has now polarised to 1%- 99% in the space of 20 years!
Awesome regression, but which has its own seeds of destruction all too visible, it is like Charles V universal empire or Ottoman empire, and it won't last.
.... and chEcks for free.
There fixed it for you.
Ron Paul copped out on the presidential campaign. He blew it, he had it and he blew it. Too little too late, his credit is shot.
RULE #1: Never fuck over the Praetorian. RULE #2: Never fuck over the Senate. Somebody has got to pay for Benghazi. Look how Obituary did with the military vote this time. It wouldn't suck if the extensive surveillance & wetwork legislation actually works as advertised.
The military and veterans do NOT vote en masse for warmonger Obama and his handlers. Check your facts before playing with dynamite, comrade. The military support the Commander in Chief, elected by civilians. That is the Western way.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-11-08/guest-post-what-do-when-youve-h...
monad,
I sympathise with Simon. However, I will live and die in New England. That is my line in the sand of time, my devotion to mine own, my country, my neighbors, our idealism. I lived abroad for decades, another nomad for personal and professional reasons.
My people, my land, my values. I am relieved to be home again. Here I stay, no matter what. My partner who has special skills will do so too.
'A cynic knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing,' said Oscar Wilde, playwrite.
I know my place, and heart. Best wishes to you and yours.
You sound like a Renaissance Italian : my place, and heart are in Sienna, Pisa, Verona, Florence, Venise, Urbino, Ferrare, Genoa...you name it.
WHile the battle raged for universal monarchy, in ITALY, as all over the Mediterranean and in Europe, later in New World, between Charles V of Habsburg against Soleiman the Magnificent, Sultan undefeated; Pope Clement VII standard bearer of universal church; Francis I rival Valois of France; Henry VIII's new Tudor genesis in England; and MArtin Luther anti-pope reformist stirring up the teutonic lands of Europe. Complex world, intricate chess game...(whats new)...since Imperial Rome.
Guess what, the Italian city states lost, the empires crumbled but the nation-states were born and the fight for empire and God (all different versions of him!), went on.
Put your remarks in that context and you'll get a better perspective of the future of your line of thinking and why Big Government of USA, legacy of Lincoln and FDR, is not a thing of the past.
The future of USA lies in reconsolidating nation-state on its republican socle, accepting the demise of corrupt current empire construct , and fighting to build a better future of the world by recalibrating US values, (we can't turn back the technology clock; aka Internet and global village nomadic life style of individual freedoms that drive it forward; the global melting pot will continue to churn)... not by retrenching into fortress New England, island of sanity in a mad world (like the Italian city states did then).
Unless you believe in Armageddon and Mayan collapse of civilization...(which I don't).
Some weird censorship going on at ZH. Swathes of comments deleted, including mine of course.
V to the censor. And then comments re-appear. All very weird.
If it happened to be midnight Eastern, the site gets a bit tweaky for a little while. Sometimes I rush a comment because I notice it's almost 'that time'.
Or it could be gremlins. Or spooks. Or....the chemtrails!!!!!
Thanks, Jim. The world weird web is a mystery to me, and most :-)
Look at the time stamp. you posted at 00:34 what hour is that. server problem.
RP is playing a role, see Wright Patman for more information.
Not exactly pure democracy! 2 parties that work together to suppress everything including: third parties, balance budget, evidence of financing al qaeda, money printing, etc etc. One website is reporting the whole election was a scam by both parties the two heads of the snake read this.....
http://theulstermanreport.com/2012/11/07/white-house-insider-shut-up-mov...
The title of George Washington’s article (Washington's Blog) today on Lew Rockwell puts the 2012 election into proper perspective, particularly in light of the last minute rule changes at the Republican Convention that disallowed the nomination of Ron Paul for president: “Voter Turnout Plunges Throughout the Western World … Largely Due to Political Corruption”
http://lewrockwell.com/spl4/voter-turnout-plunges.html
Ta,JR.
Whoever we vote for, the government wins. That explains falling voter turn out; more people disgusted with the career political class, their lawyers, their accountants, their inflation busting pay perks and index linked pensions - paid for by the people they use and abuse, whilst they talk more, take more and deliver poorer results.
Buy physical gold, silver - and stay close to family, friends and local community. This 2012 election proves that the takers think they have won.
They haven't...as failing government finance will bury them alive, while the smug politicos party on...
Whoever we vote for, the government wins. That explains falling voter turn out; more people disgusted with the career political class,
__________________________
Nope. 'Americans' have to face the fact that voting is a test. To see if you are part of the club or not.
If you voted republican, and discovered that you were not eligible to republican favours to themselves, you are no longer part of that club.
If following that discovery, you voted for the democrats and found out the same, you never were part of that club.
Ultimately, at this point, you found out that 'america' is a big club and contrary to your 'american' beliefs that membership to the club was to be inherited forever, you discover this to be very wrong.
'America' is a big club and you aint part of it. No longer.
Welcome to an 'american' world.
You have neglected to blame the fall of the Akkadian and Parthian Empires on time-traveling 'US Citizenism' of 'american' fabled past (such as you have repeatedly done for Easter Island). I demand to know why.
"voting" is definitely a big club, full of smug righteousness, backed by shallow thinking and beliefs.
it's an amrkn tradition, smugness and shallow thinking. voting is like the serial down-voter who doesn't read the post, but joins the down-vote club 'cause it sees the others have piss-marked the spot before them.
voting is just the tip. . .
there is no government; the government is the people. there is no government debt, the government debt is private sector debt.
fight in the streets about someone co-opting the Fed to print benefit checks and co-opting the people to buy bullets to kill foreigners and fund the military.
the constitution of the united states enshrines elections as a republic, not a democracy since this leads to mobocracy/welfare democracy.
to fix the electoral issue of the 47% voting for a pay rise, the "debt slave" class should not be allowed to vote, period.
Poor people don't vote.
Voting is a middle class thing in 'american' nations.
Make me laugh.
Blobbing-up the crustiest bit of the mattering algebraic coconut thing is an every class thing among dishwashing Chinese Citizenism citizens.
The only thing I want to hear from Ron Paul is why he rolled over and dropped out. Nothing he says can be taken seriously now without that being known. That said, it was clearly an "offer he couldn't refuse". It sure as hell didn't have anything to do with his very public lunch with The Burnake.
Because he did not win the nomination of his party and some states prohibit those who have competed and lost in the primaries from a ballot position in the general election. There are a variety of other techniques used to block third party candidates as well. He would not have been able to compete in enough states to gain the needed electoral votes to win the presidency.
You didn't think that the two party system was maintained by accident, did you?
did Ron call you up on your private bat-phone and give you the whole story?
'cause he didn't reallly go to the press with his reasoning, nor did he make much fuss about it, nor did he point out any of the obvious that you ascribe to him - much lamenting from the fan base, not so much from the home plate.
by the way, isn't Ron an entrenched part of that 2-party system? didn't he run as a Conservative Republican? and NOTHING ELSE?
*cough* maintenance.
"As long as you think we have to [police] the world and run this welfare state, all we will argue about is who will get the loot. "
Much ado about nothing.
Fiat system status quo will be preserved as long as ME can be kept subdued and the oil flowing. All commodity/energy-deficit nations are complicit in this trading arrangement and hence status quo will be retained until some big player defects. Then it will be fun and games.
America IS Greece.
Everyone - including corporations - is feeding at the trough... and as expected - no one - no corporation, no farmer, no lazy prick getting gov't cash - is gonna give up their freebie.
If you try to take it you lose the election.
Corporations in particularly have learned the fine art of using PR to maniuplate - remember how when attempts were made to reign in health care costs Big Pharma trotted out 'Death Panels'
This is but one example - but you get the drift. This is why the US has such inertia - you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.
America - just like Greece - is going to collapse because of this
Rich with govt help can slope the playing field in their favor. Poor can get straight handouts. It is the only real compromise of politics to take money for campaings from some of the rich and loyal votes from some of the poor and than spread the loot around to your friends. This simple process gives huge advantage in elections, politicians that don't play this game get thrown out pretty soon.
'Americans' have this taste for fantasy and propaganda: anytime they have to discuss reality, they substitute a fantasical/propagandist to reality in order to be able to articulate some points.
Everything has to be done to avoid pointing at 'americanism'.
What is Paul discussing about? It is not about honesty at this point but the level of dishonest one must achieve to indulge oneself in such distorted analysis.
-------------------------------------
If you look at the numbers and the way pure democracy works, pure democracy is dangerous. The majority dictates against the minority. Right now the majority are receiving a check.
------------------------------------
Yes, if you look at the numbers in the US, one sees that:
-the majority of the electorate barely votes. So it cant be the majority ruling over the minority. Usually, when scaled to the global electorate, a US president is elected by 25 to 30 pc of the electorate. Not even close from a majority. But 'americans' have troubles with the notion of majority and very often, keep attributing to a majority what a minority is doing.
A decision making process can be a voting process. One man voting over millions of non voters would be in the eyes of 'americans': an absolute majority in that case.
An elective monarchy is also the rule of the majority etc
- Another point that Paul promptly pushes under the rug. Obama has once again shown he is a very talented 'american'. He has played perfectly the 'american' system and focused on gaining the key states. Crushing Romney through electoral votes. The popular vote gave a different tune. Candidates are much closer one from another.
Best, in the past, some candidates are known to have lost elections while gaining the popular votes. They played the 'american' great electors game worse though.
As an 'american', Paul cant even come to terms that the US is not pure democracy. He has to discuss 'america' as being a pure democracy. Which 'america' is not.
-Another point: 'americans' have always used the voting process to entitle themselves with something. This story has been running since the FF. Once again, Paul can not discuss it as it is because as an 'american', he does not disagree with this voting process property, he disagrees with the identity of people who are enjoying the benefit of it. It would be Paul's chums, that would be all right.
'Americanism' is all about submission. When reading Paul's comments, it is piling on lies after lies one has to submit in order to join the Paulist cult.
Notice that Paul urge people to look at the numbers. As usual, this submission has to happen with the consent of the governed.
When seeing the numbers, one can not fault but seeing that Paul's speech is just ravings. At this point, the decision has to be made: either you back up Paul's lies and join his cult. Or you dont. And remember, with 'americans', the group is all, you are either with them or against them.
Nuts!
Chinese citizenism crackpottery.
I think people had enough of me. I do not have much confidence in the political system and never did.
____________________________________
Excellent. Paul was that long term professional politician who lived off by farming an electoral niche. Never changed.
Current point is pushing him to the exit door, behaviour of son who is on the same path to achieve a longlife political career being one element. Trouble for son: long term career can only be achieved by compromizing with the republican party. So Paul has to quit to avoid family drama and being exposed more.
And Paul had to be the best shot 'americans' could. Supposedly, he took a life time to Paul to come to decide his political actions were fruitless. In the meantime, money, connections and the rest. Do not return that, Paul, 'americans' do not have to foot the bill of their mistake. It is their priviledge. As it is the priviledge of others to foot the bill of 'americans' mistakes.
Such is 'americanism'.
Alas, alas, triple "NUTS!" alas!
The problem, as always, is that you have not safeguarded and maintained the integrity of your precious Chinese Citizenism bodily fluids.
The Chinese citizenism roadside runneth over.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2c9_1328304616
it's a great gig if you're up for it - farm the votes, wage the family with "moneybombs" & reap the attention, fame even.
of course, anyone that far up the gov't's ass should know the flora by now, decades worth of shit formed.
so edgy, career politicians, and generational aspirational, keep it in the family, so very democratic. keep the volley'd ball in the air, then spike it over the net when the opportune moment arises, when the herd is distracted by holidaze or drama.
what a privilege!
We are NOT a democracy. The US was founded as a Republic ("A Republic , if you can keep it"-- Benjamin Franklin). The founders knew that at least 70% of the populace were morons, thus a rule of law was needed to prevent a tyrannical government from enslaving them. When there is "rule of man" and not rule of law, then evil men will rule. Heck there isn't even a "right" to vote (See Minor v. Happersett, Mcpherson v. Blacker, et al). States give the right of franchise (if the franchise is given then equal protection must be observed). If this were a "Democracy" then how is their no right to vote? Again the founders knew that the great majority of the populace were idiots, and didn't want them all to vote.
R. Paul, though right in some ways, is a faux Constitutionalist. He really will do nothing about the Fed but flap his gums (after the "audit" showed $13 TRILLION going to private and foreign hands with "Tarp" what happened?). He has allowed a foreign ineligible Usurper (Obama was born British of a British subject father, and is not an Art. 2 natural born Citizen-- see Minor v. Happersett, 88 US 162, 167; see also Federalist #68--prevent an "improper ascendant" (ANCESTOR) in order to ensure a "creature of their own" as chief magistrate. ) to invade the WH. What kind of "Constitutionalist" allows that? There is no law and no Constitution when the President, who is the executor of the law, is illegal. Get it thru your heads!! Seen any rule of law lately? R. Paul is a jester in the court of evil men whom have Usurped the government and Constitution. Only the blood of tyrants and patriots will bring back the Republic, but I doubt it. We couldn't keep it.
Please, omniscient Tyler of Zero Hedge, do something about the structure of the blog that forces arguments into
one
word
at
a
time
these comment battles often have gems in them from both sides, but reading becomes incredibly difficult.
I thought the banks were getting the biggest checks.
Even Ron Paul said it was stupid to vote for a third party in the 2012 Presidential election.
he says that Obama's election is proof that the country is too far gone.
I'd like to thank all of the stupid idiots here who said ' Obama and Romney are exactly the same', or who voted for Obama, by not voting against Obama.
You white folks are dumber than the knee grows who showed up in droves to assure the continuation of their fat welfare checks!
Thanks Ron Paul voting assholes, and thanks for cowering from the facts, douchebags!
Sorry you didn't like my choice, I didn't like yours either. Now we can both live with the result.
They did not even carry their own states. Pro bailout candiates is not where republicans want to be. Do you think rommeny really wanted to win??? He did not even bring up Corzine and the whole other list of stuff. He was a place holder to get the O man back in. Pro bailout candiates should be avoided like the plague.
You seem angry. Now you might try and understand how Ron Paul supporters felt when they were marginilized. In fact, the other canidate Rumnuts and Bummer supporters have their heads so far up their ass, they think bullshit smells good. A bunch of sociopathic war mongers pissed at Ron Paul supporters. What a fucking joke,
Here in Massachusetts, we had a former libertarian turned Republican running against a Kleptocrat. We also had a libertarian candidate. The Republican lost by 4,000 votes. The libertarian got 12,000 votes.
Talk about biting off your nose to spite your face.
Would you like to be struck in the head by a hammer or a crowbar? If you don't select crowbar then you have no right to complain when they hit you with a hammer.
TWO Interesting things...for me:
1. We are NOT broke. We can print as much money as we want to. (YES YES, I know. The ramifications of that are staggering, and frightening. But to say we're broke is erroneous. Better to say we are addicts poking ourselves with yet another needle, but soon enough we will O.D. and the currency will collapse - I think within the decade.)
2. I had always thought about bought-and-sold elections as being the Super-Pac effect...the wealthy purchasing democracy....I hadn't really considered it from the other side - the "Left" purchasing power and democracy through the disbursement of entitlements. Kind of a massive indictment of our democracy from both ends of the socio-economic spectrum.
Debt is not capital; think of money printing as you would adding CO2 to the room in which you must breathe, while you can increase the relative pressure in the room you at a certain point can no longer function and soon die.
Agreed. I am simply stating this fact from an accounting perspective...not from a reality perspective. We know that, for example, banks mark their assets NOT to the marketplace value, but to whatever value they want. Then the FED comes in and purchases many of those assets at the banks stated value....and many would argue since the FED is purchasing them, THAT is the marketplace value. OF COURSE, when we print tens of trillions of new dollars, the ramifications are insane....but, from a purely accounting standpoint, we are not broke...because in a fiat system, broke and insolvent are different from illiquid.
I hadn't really considered it from the other side - the "Left" purchasing power and democracy through the disbursement of entitlements.
Sigh.
Don't sigh. :) This is an interesting thing...people of wealth don't see the purchase of democracy (via the Super-Pac effect, or simple via lobbying) as anti-democratic. People on the Left don't see the government's "purchase" of votes through promises of entitlement as anti-democratic - and yet BOTH are. Perhaps true democracy can never truly exist. (I will say this, however. I have a friend from a nation in africa who lives in the U.S....and he always says that democracy in the U.S. is the gold standard for the world.)
Get real man! Printed fiat paper is real money every bit as much as that printed paper money that comes in the Monopoly box is. It is what supports the paper that makes it money. And printed paper US dollars have only slightly more support (and decreasing by the minute) than the Monopoly money. By your reasoning when a loaf of bread costs 4 trillion US dollars we are still ok, cuz we ain't broke yet. Look up the Weimar Republic on Wikipedia. They could print their own money too. And boy oh boy did they ever.......just like the US, among others.
Dear Tool: :)
It's not "my reasoning." It's simply an accounting truth. Just as when the banks were given permission by the House Financial Service Committee to value their assets however they wanted to...in a pure accounting sense, there is unlimited money. The banks were allowed to say, "Hey, our assets are worth 'x'...but if they had been offered for sale on the markplace, they would only have garnered perhaps 1/10th of that 'x'. You and I both know that the fallacy here is that money only exists vis-a-vis trust...etc. and so forth. I am just pointing out the the word choice "broke" is the wrong word. And, as for the Weimar analogy...it is dubious. Weimar was a republic burdened with maasive war reparations, and that exists pre-Bretton Woods....the dollar remains the currency of choice the wrold over...YES, that be in flux, but the comparison to Weimar is a poor one, IMO.
We have far from pure democracy. Does anybody here actually think Romney would have been better than Obama? Romney wouldn't have gotten rid of Obamacare. Romney wanted to spend more on the military. The deficits would have been just as bad and the debt slavery would have been just as bad.
So to think all the people who voted for Obama did so because they are on the take from government is naive. There are plenty of people scared of losing the separation of church and state with the things many Republicans say. The pregnancy and rape comments out of Republicans scared many women away. I have been in an online parenting after infertility support group for 13 years now, and the major focus of these women is social issues, not the economy. I'm generally more interested in economic issues, so their focus on social issues really stands out to me. These are in general pretty affluent women who could afford assisted reproductive technology, so they are generally not on the receiving end of government assistance.
People voted for Obama the same reason that panicky cattle rush back into a burning barn after being driven to safety. Under duress, they both are seeking comfort from the familiar.
This man is no longer relevant.
Except to those of us who see him as relevant.
But, isn't this also an illusion, since the majority must use those funny money checks primarily to pay their debts to the minority. It's just another road to the same end. The minority still wins it all in the end.
Let me get this right.
Democracy is BAD if purchased by the votes of the poor and needy.
Democracy is GOOD if purchased by the 'votes' of the well-heeled, who exploit the poor and needy.
Ron Paul, you are a yesterday's man, thank goodness! Now Shut The F**k Up!
Democracy is GOOD if purchased by the 'votes' of the well-heeled, who exploit the poor and needy.
Obligatory liberal strawman. You shut the fuck up.
We will never get past this divide until we stop looking at Dem vs. Repub. We must start looking at all protected voter classes of both Dems and Repubs.
I direct you to Okaloosa County, Florida where 73% of the economic activity is generated by the military bases there. The average wage is 168% greater than those working outside the military complex. After 20 years of service, the service man or woman is retired at 50% of their base pay, E-5 around $1500, O-5 around $3500 a month. Healthcare is provided for $520 a year family, and a Cadillac policy at that. They shop at government grocery stores, clothes and household good store. They buy their cigarettes and booze at government discount store, even their gasoline. They eat at government restaurants.
How do they vote?
Okaloosa County has 75,550 registered Republicans, 27,835 registered Democrats, and 26,247 registered "others". In the last election, 74% voted for Romney, 67% voted for Mack IV, and 73% voted for Miller, straight Republican ticket.
Why did they vote as they did? After all, they are members of the largest socialize economy in the world. Why not vote for the Dems? Because they are convinced that the Dems will cut the military budget and their benefits. They are no different than the welfare class that is constantly demonized. They vote for their government checks.
The waiting for their check meme is not one sided. It is a great talking point one side uses against the other, but it is not one sided. The protected classes of both parties need to be looked at equally.
"From an outright libertarian, the headline seems contrary;"
Not really. The founding fathers hated a democracy. They called it "tryranny of the majority."
Tuco
you make excellent points tsuki.
sadly the voting game requires allegiance to yer party, and critical thinking cannot be applied once you've chosen your team - that's when the DEFENSE of team-spirit must kick in.
it's the way people are trained by the culture, dualist thinking, man/woman, either/or, red/blue, pick a side - to think outside of that is to go into territory where the language shifts, is not always recognisable as a repeatable meme - one might even need to use words that others don't LIKE to make a point, instead of copy-paste each others words for acceptance and peer approval.
as the .gov continues to be one of the nation's largest employers, and assists so many with benefits - be they corporate, private or state - then it's hardly surprising when people continue to VOTE for continuity of government. . .
So, whom will be the new Libertarian stand bearer? Anyone from the Cato Institute?
I think Ron Paul's emotional depression is a little unrestrained for my taste but then I'm a Conservative not a Libertarian. In the span of 5000+ years of human recorded history, nations have risen and fallen but Capitalism continued. That is the long view of history, not Ron Paul's nationalistic narrow time line. Does anyone here really believe Capitalism rises or falls on the existence of the US? Do you really think the US is the only game in town?
The current US debt dependency will run it's course like all addictions. After the crash, we will pick up the pieces to start again. Obama will bring the country to its knees in due time and at the end the majority will be bitter but wiser. Wisdom is found in life experiences and not from a slogan or empty promises of endless childhood visions of utopia.
In fact, isn't that the essence of the Libertarian view, letting people do what they want as long as no one subsidies their consequences? If you drink yourself into the gutter should I be required to pick you up to prevent you from drowning in your own vomit? No! Nature should take it's course to delete aberrant (unsuccessful) behavior from the gene pool. Harsh for individuals but necessary for the species to survive. So too, all those who voted and supported living in excess at the expense of others will perish when the supply runs out.
Those who learn from their mistakes will be counted just as wise as those who knew better not to make the mistake in the first place. Life experience makes wise those whom barely survive their mistakes. So sit back, tell them "I told you so" and stock up your food in a secure place.
A very simple, if unwieldy, solution is an amendment to the campaign finance laws.
For example: Every registered voter is allowed to donate a maximum of $1000 per year to any candidates they choose. Period.
No PACS, no bundling. All contributions have to come from registered voters ONLY, in individual accounts.
A Union or Corporation may influence their respective members to voluntarily commit to candidates who will serve their best interests but contributions remain in voters hands and are private and accountable as to exceeding the limits.
A voter may commit to 10 candidates or only one but the limit cannot be exceeded in any year.
Congress and local legislators would have to compete for those dollars in direct appeals to voters instead of monied special interest groups.
Jeff Immelt would have the same impact as Joe Sixpack. $1000. All candidates, if challenged, would have to show where each penny came from.
Corporations, Unions and special interest groups are comprised of people but ARE NOT people in their own right. This legal fallacy needs to be addressed by SCOTUS. McCain- Feingold was bad law because it was discriminatory, but it was also based on a flawed definition of what a Corp. really is, and that is merely that of a collection of individuals with a common purpose. Those individuals have rights as owners but the entity itself should be bereft of such protection.
The people who make up those groups are exercising their right to 'free speech' and are free to choose to participate or not.
Everyones legal rights are protected including non- registered people who by choosing not to register choose not to participate at all.
If you can have a secured account to buy a book at Amazon, I can't see that having a campaign contribution account as an insurmountably high hurdle to jump.
The only prevention against "Vote for me and get EBT" is that it forces the candidate to actually say it and reveal themselves as blatant vote panderers.
Certainly no cure, but even the most modestly intellectually endowed voters could understand this ploy for what it is.
There's a few nuts and bolts that would have to be tightened by policy wonks but it seems a reasonable solution to the abysmal situation that now exists.
And that concludes my trip to Fantasyland for today.
A much simpler, albeit antiquated method, way would be to only allow property owners or those whom actually pay taxes to vote. Net payers. Not the tired line of what we hear spouted by the left. People who actually loose a portion of their income to Uncle Sam.
"From an outright libertarian, the headline seems contrary"
Uh, that is one thing it most certainly does not seem.
Actually, Mr. Paul, nobody ever argued about who was going to get the loot !! Most of it went straight to the top 2% who already owned 80% of the nations wealth and now they get most of the freshly printed money you f... idiot! They blunder the middle class, enrich bankster, WS and distribute some soup to the poor ...
Most of you morons just completely don't get it. Its not about 'government money' or whatever meme you heard on Foxnewz. Its about the 99% trying to get large corporations out of their government, and that's exactly what we did again this year.
The more you dumbasses keep pushing farther to the right the more you will keep losing the White House. So please, keep it up.
I downed you. You can spout the 99% all you want but you are wholy naive to think its just about the largesse those corporations are grabbing.
Break the businesses. Regulate them out of existence. Go ahead. However, when you do and government is the only one left standing eventually the 99 will turn on themselves. This isn't some tv sitcom or docudrama that you will simply be able to switch off at the end of the night.
The "gimme" generation will eventually feel the long sting of fiscal burn when sound monetary policy is firmly shoved up their collective asses.
"As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;
And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!"
http://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_copybook.htm
The majority cannot dictate to the minority because the government works for the minority.