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Guest Post: Is Democracy Possible In A Corrupt Society?

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Charles Hugh-Smith of OfTwoMinds blog,

Democracy is for PR purposes only in corrupt neofeudal nations.

Correspondent Chris rightly critiqued me for not mentioning democracy (or the lack thereof) in my recent entry on China: Do We Have What It Takes To Get From Here To There? Part 2: China. It is indeed vital to include democracy in any discussion of corruption, for it raises this question: is democracy possible in a corrupt society?
We can phrase the question as a corollary: in honor of my new book Why Things Are Falling Apart and What We Can Do About It (print $24) (Kindle $7.95), let's call it WTAFA Corollary #1:

If the citizenry cannot replace a dysfunctional government and/or limit the power of the financial Aristocracy at the ballot box, the nation is a democracy in name only.

In other words, if the citizenry cannot dislodge a parasitic, predatory financial Aristocracy via elections, then "democracy" is merely a public-relations facade, a simulacra designed to create the illusion that the citizenry "have a voice" when in fact they are debt-serfs in a neofeudal State.
When the Status Quo remains the same no matter who gets elected, democracy is a sham. We might profitably look to Japan as an example of a nation which replaced its dysfunctional dominant party via elections to little effect (Do We Have What It Takes To Get From Here To There? Part 1: Japan).
We can ask this question of Greece: in a pervasively corrupt neofeudal society, is democracy even possible?
Neofeudalism is characterized by a carefully nurtured facade of social mobility and democracy while the actual machinery of governance is corrupted at every level.
This corruption may manifest as first-order daily-life corruption such as buying entry to college, bribing officials for licenses, and so on, but the truly serious corruption is the second-order variety that functions behind the closed doors of central banks and financial/political Elites.
Here in the U.S., the people elected Barack Obama in 2008 on the implicit promise that the politically dominant financial sector would be limited in some meaningful fashion. Instead, President Obama immediately nixed any meaningful reform.
The progressive case against Obama: The president is complicit in creating an increasingly unequal and unjust society.

Many will claim that Obama was stymied by a Republican Congress. But the primary policy framework Obama put in place -- the bailouts --took place during the transition and the immediate months after the election, when Obama had enormous leverage over the Bush administration and then a dominant Democratic Party in Congress.In fact, during the transition itself, Bush’s Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson offered a deal to Barney Frank, to force banks to write down mortgages and stem foreclosures if Barney would speed up the release of TARP money. Paulson demanded, as a condition of the deal, that Obama sign off on it. Barney said fine, but to his surprise, the incoming president vetoed the deal.


Yup, you heard that right-- the Bush administration was willing to write down mortgages in response to Democratic pressure, but it was Obama who said no, we want a foreclosure crisis. And with Neil Barofsky’s book Bailout: An Inside Account of How Washington Abandoned Main Street While Rescuing Wall Street, we see why.


Tim Geithner said, in private meetings, that the foreclosure mitigation programs were not meant to mitigate foreclosures, but to spread out pain for the banks, the famous “foam the runway” comment.

Here's how a sham democracy works: candidates are duly paraded in front of credulous voters in a "which is better, Bud or Bud Lite?" false-choice marketing blitz, while all the meaningful codifying of Aristocratic rule is directed or purchased by the financial and political Aristocracy (two sides of the same coin).
Consider the actions of the Federal Reserve, the dominant financial force in the nation. Though the Fed is nominally under the control of Congress, it is actually like an iceberg: its public pronouncements are the visible 10% above water. The real mass of the Fed’s actions lie beneath the surface, invisible to us mere debt-serf citizens.
The Fed’s public mandate, to “promote stable prices, maximum sustainable output and employment,” is solid public relations, of course (we're selflessly focused on the good of the nation, blah blah blah) but it’s also deeply disingenuous, as the Fed’s less PR-pretty agenda is rather transparently to preserve the banking sector’s profits and power at all costs.
We can find clues to the Fed’s real goals in its behind-closed-doors actions--the 90% of the iceberg that’s out of public view.
On the surface, the Fed increased its balance sheet by about $2 trillion since the 2008 global financial crisis. This electronically created money purchased about $1.1 trillion in mortgage-backed securities (MBS) to support the housing market and $1 trillion in Treasury bonds to keep interest rates low. These two goals--super-low interest rates, a.k.a. zero-interest policy (ZIRP), and supporting assets such as housing and stocks--are the core strategies the Fed is publicly deploying to boost growth and employment.
Supporting the banks is not mentioned, for obvious PR reasons. Yet a Government Accountability Office (GAO) audit found the Fed provided $16.1 trillion in “emergency program” loans to global banks from 2007 to 2010, and a Levy Institute study uncovered a total of $29 trillion in Fed support--roughly ten times larger than the Fed’s public programs. (For context, the annual U.S. gross domestic product is about $15 trillion.)
This suggests we should take the Fed’s assurances that its policies are all for the public good with a grain of salt roughly the size of the Fed’s headquarters at 20th and Constitution Avenue.
Did bailing out the banks truly serve the public good, or did it stymie a much-needed capitalist “creative destruction” of failed financial institutions that have grown so powerful that they are now “too big to fail”? How exactly did enabling the banks to draw upon trillions of dollars of Fed support, safe from public scrutiny, serve the public good?
The U.S. Status Quo is also like an iceberg: the visible 10% is what we're reassured "we" control, but the 90% that is completely out of our control is what matters.
There is another dynamic in a facsimile democracy: the Tyranny of the Majority. When the Central State issues enough promises to enough people, the majority concludes that supporting the Status Quo, no matter how corrupt, venal, parasitic, unsustainable and dysfunctional it might be, is in their personal interests.
Tyranny of the Majority, Corporate Welfare and Complicity (April 9, 2010): Please read this brief excerpt by James Madison to get a flavor for the Tyranny of the Majority:

"A pure democracy can admit no cure for the mischiefs of faction. A common passion or interest will be felt by a majority, and there is nothing to check the inducements to sacrifice the weaker party. Hence it is, that democracies have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths."

The Tyranny of the Majority is the primary topic of the Federalist Number 10, in which Madison tackles the Achilles Heel of democracy: undesirable passions can very easily spread to a majority of the people, which can then enact its will through the nominally democratic government.
Put another way: the Power Elites of a nominal democracy can buy the complicity of the majority by showering them with government benefits and entitlements.
This document from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) displays the Effective Tax Rates (CBO) for American households.
After including earned-income tax credits, the bottom 60% of households paid less than 1% of all Federal income taxes, and the households between 60% and 80% paid 13%.
The top 20% paid 68.7% of all Federal taxes: Income taxes, Social Security and Medicare, excise and corporate taxes. The top 10% of households paid fully 72.7% of all Federal income tax, the top 5% paid 60.7%, and the top 1% paid 38.8%.
In essence, this is a vote-buying scheme by the Status Quo: the top 1% control the policies of the State in alliance with the State's own Elites, and together they buy the complicity of the bottom 60% majority.
This is the worst of all possible simulacra of democracy. In the Wikipedia entry linked above, Mancur Olson is cited as arguing in The Logic of Collective Action that narrow, well-organized minorities are more likely to assert their interests over those of the majority.
In other words, the Financial Aristocracy asserts its interests over the 99% and then buys the complicity of the bottom 60% with largesse paid for by the top 19% of earners.
In Who Rules America?, Sociologist G. William Dumhoff draws an important distinction between the net worth held by households in "marketable assets" such as homes and vehicles and "financial wealth." Homes and other tangible assets are, in Dumhoff's words, "not as readily converted into cash and are more valuable to their owners for use purposes than they are for resale."
Financial wealth such as stocks, bonds and other securities are liquid and therefore easily converted to cash; these assets are what Dumhoff describes as "non-home wealth" on his website "Wealth, Income, and Power in America."
As of 2007, the bottom 80% of American households held a mere 7% of these financial assets, while the top 1% held 42.7% and the top 20% held fully 93%.
In a classic "divide and conquer" tactic, the State's Power Elites have sold a slew of new taxes to fund the guaranteed-to-implode "healthcare reform" (a.k.a. increased funding of sickcare cartels) on those earning $250,000 or more.
Everyone earning 25% of that sum loudly applauds "sticking it to the rich" (the Tyranny of the Majority in full flower) while failing to note that the truly wealthy--the ones who don't have any earned income because they don't work in salaried jobs, the ones who own roughly half the nation's productive assets--pay nothing but a slice of their unearned income, much of which is protected by various tax breaks.
The State is effectively operated as a fiefdom of the Financial Power Elites--and by that I mean the people earning not $300,000, but those earning $30 million or more annually-- that buys the complicity of the lower 60% with enough largesse to keep them supportive of the Status Quo.
In this facsimile democracy, citizenship has devolved to advocacy for a larger share of Federal government swag. The U.S. Status Quo rules via the second-order corruption of financial Aristocracy and Tyranny of the Majority.
Is Democracy Possible in a Corrupt Society? No, it is not. Our democracy is a PR sham.
My new book Why Things Are Falling Apart and What We Can Do About It is now available in print and Kindle editions--20% to 30% discounts this week only.

Things are falling apart—that is obvious. But why are they falling apart? The reasons are complex and global. Our economy and society have structural problems that cannot be solved by adding debt to debt. We are becoming poorer, not just from financial over-reach, but from fundamental forces that are not easy to identify or understand. We will cover the five core reasons why things are falling apart:

go to print edition1. Debt and financialization
2. Crony capitalism and the elimination of accountability
3. Diminishing returns
4. Centralization
5. Technological, financial and demographic changes in our economyComplex systems weakened by diminishing returns collapse under their own weight and are replaced by systems that are simpler, faster and affordable. If we cling to the old ways, our system will disintegrate. If we want sustainable prosperity rather than collapse, we must embrace a new model that is Decentralized, Adaptive, Transparent and Accountable (DATA).
We are not powerless. Not accepting responsibility and being powerless are two sides of the same coin: once we accept responsibility, we become powerful.


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Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:07 | 2971337 seataka
seataka's picture

Mussolini defined FASCISM as the marriage of corporations to the state. This is US.


Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:10 | 2971351 no taste
no taste's picture

Even though he is an abject failure, Karl Rove knows that North Korea is corrupt and the USA is not.

Quelle surprise. Il a Karl Roved l'élection.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:37 | 2971437 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

"Democracy is a suggestion box for slaves." - ?

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:46 | 2971468 seataka
seataka's picture

you give great quote

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 01:18 | 2971741 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

The USA is not a Democracy, it's a Republic. Get over it.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 01:32 | 2971762 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

in either case, if the people are corrupt, their representatives will also be corrupt

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 06:25 | 2971925 economics9698
economics9698's picture

The founding fathers were not afraid to kill people.  We need to kill some bankers.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 06:38 | 2971930 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too soon to shoot the bastards.


- Claire Wolfe

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 08:14 | 2971968 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Democracy thrives on corruption.


It's a death sentence to a Republic however.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 09:49 | 2972129 Tursas
Tursas's picture

What about Switzerland - you can always buy people but not their system:



Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:38 | 2973407 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

lotta words to say: "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner."

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 10:37 | 2972275 Hi Ho Silver
Hi Ho Silver's picture

That brings to mind Aaron Burr and his ridding the Earth of banker/centralist/traitor Alexander Hamilton.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 01:59 | 2971785 dbomb12
dbomb12's picture

As the Soviet Union, that late evil empire, was a republic (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) because the lawmakers were elected, if only by the Communist Party members. And today they are elected by the collective Obama borg drones along with Extensive fraudulent practices through the electronic voting machines which can be easily manipulated

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 03:04 | 2971845 cirrus
cirrus's picture

Just because they called themselves a republic doesn't mean they were (or are). A republic is a nation ruled by laws. A democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting over what's for dinner.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 06:27 | 2971927 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Don't you just love all the Negro 99% voting precincts?

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 09:35 | 2972081 dbomb12
Mon, 11/12/2012 - 09:34 | 2972079 dbomb12
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Please explain which constitutional laws are being followed at this time as set out by the founding fathers, I would love to hear it

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 11:06 | 2972358 Urban Redneck
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That is why they advance the "living" doctrine of judicial interpretation, so that original intent and even judicial precedents may be discarded at will to support the ambitions of a tyrannical majority.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 11:07 | 2972361 WhyDoesItHurtWh...
WhyDoesItHurtWhen iPee's picture

Thats right, the sheep (read voting public) always get "proper fucked".

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 11:23 | 2972424 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

A republic is a nation ruled by laws.

It could be a democracy.

See, here:
a democracy is a nation ruled by laws.

But, hey, 'americanism' is as 'american' does.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:23 | 2973336 akak
akak's picture

The so-called "People's Republic of China" could be a democracy.

See, here:
a democracy is a nation ruled by laws (no matter how authoritarian).

But, hey, AnAnnoyingUsism is as algebraic coconut crackpottery does.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 04:30 | 2971879 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

On paper, yes.  In reality, no.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 06:03 | 2971911 fourchan
fourchan's picture

or its a republic stupid!

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 08:17 | 2971971 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Apparently that fact pissed someone off.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 08:46 | 2972007 koncaswatch
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USSA is now a democracy; was supposed to be a republic. Direct Senate elections fixed that.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 09:36 | 2972083 dbomb12
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Right on

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:51 | 2971613 EscapingProgress
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I think this may have originated from Stefan Molyneux. He's the only person from whom I have heard it.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 01:21 | 2971624 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

is Liberty Possible An A Corrupt Democracy?

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 01:57 | 2971786 dbomb12
dbomb12's picture
Is Democracy Possible In A Corrupt Society?

How about a real simple answer NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 11:13 | 2972386 MachoMan
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A better question would be, is liberty possible for any reasonable period of time?  (given rudimentary human wiring, e.g., apathy, risk aversion, etc.)

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 02:05 | 2971796 reTARD
reTARD's picture

 "Democracy is the freedom to elect our own dictators."

Source picture: 

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 06:04 | 2971912 fourchan
fourchan's picture

democracy is mob rule.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 08:21 | 2971979 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Don't look now.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 11:07 | 2972357 madcows
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You assume the mob is in charge.    Which definition are you using:  The large unruly group kind or the organized criminal kind? 

If you say organized criminal kind, then I agree.  Although, I'd suggest it's two warring crime families fighting for control, and we are living under the failout.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:38 | 2971440 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

1. a corrupt govt X is not, prima facie, an enemy of another govt Y (whether or not Y is corrupt). 

if you are govt Y, the corruption of X gives you additional levers to manipulate X. so (all things being equal) you prefer that X be corrupt.

2. corrupt govt X is not an enemy of the portion of its governed who are beneficiaries of its grift. 

so who does that leave as potential adversaries of corrupt govt X?

3. corrupt govt X positions itself as an adversary of the portion of its governed who are *not* beneficaries of its grift.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 09:09 | 2972031 Gazooks
Gazooks's picture

power corrupts .


the very nature of unequal distribution of power requires authority in govt's A-Z to corrupt

the contest is always one of dominant corruption, there are no uncorrupt govt adversaries

beneficiaries of corruption are inherently corrupt

we are all beneficiaries

anarchy is dead

all is vanity

all is folly


Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:45 | 2971604 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

2 wolves and a sheep, voting on who is going to get assfucked by Israeli Zionism...

Can we nuke Israel yet... please?

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 00:01 | 2971629 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Here's a fun article from Drudge, Kuwait just had the largest firewroks show ever.  To celebrate the 50th anniversary of their constitution...

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:46 | 2971605 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

@ seataka


Maybe so re the USA.  But, Wall Street is worried to DEATH about the fiscal cliff (recession if no compromise).  This weekend's Barron's is jam-packed with negative remarks about the fiscal cliff.  Review of Barron's -- Dated 12 November 2012:

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 04:42 | 2971882 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
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Actually the definition of fascism is corporations, government and military. Yep that's it all right

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:08 | 2971343 Timmay
Timmay's picture

The poor in America live better than the poor anywhere else. What's not to like?


Evry body got Obama phone!

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:55 | 2971497 AmCockerSpaniel
AmCockerSpaniel's picture

>>>>>  What's not to like?  <<<<<  Well for starters America today is going in the wrong direction for the 99%.




Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:40 | 2971591 BobPaulson
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I'd say it is going in the wrong direction because it is just sliding to the world mean due to globalizaiton. The people in the wealthy countries are just losing their wealth. Incidentally, a lot of our wealth comes from confiscating it from people in other countries, that's also a cool trick globalization plays.

If our standard of living went down but we actually were happier, it wouldn't be so bad, but I see us all getting more materialistic and trapped by the cycle caused by the crisis of overproduction. I still can't figure out an endgame to what Marx predicted unless we switch to producing virtual stuff, and kindof jump to a world like in the Matrix. Otherwise we cannot avoid simply using up more and more stuff faster and faster to make more useless shit we throw away sooner.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 01:25 | 2971748 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

I'd say it's going exactly where they want it to go. They just voted for the same direction, full steam ahead.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 01:35 | 2971766 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Liberty is the other side of that free crap equation. You give up Liberty in exchange for free shit.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 02:27 | 2971813 DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

"Liberty" along with the words "Constitution" and Freedom" were words soundly booed and hissed at the Republicann State Convention I attended because these were 'code' words for Ron Paul and his supporters.  And this coming from people who actually took the time and energy to get involved with the political process.

Outside the convention hall, I'd bet the words would engender a confused "Huh?" or "What you talkin' 'bout?"

This election should prove beyond a doubt that most do not give a rat's ass about whatever the American myth is, they're intent on building a new myth.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:09 | 2971346 cjbosk
cjbosk's picture

Democracy? How about a democratic republic for starters...we live in a land called "libtardia" which is a land of secular progressive ideology, it sucks! Down with the tards!

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:11 | 2971348 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Is the POPE Catholic?  Everyone knows the Earth is the center of the "Universe"<

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:15 | 2971356 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

US is now a Kakistocracy

"Max Keiser talks about how Wall Street and Washington are trashing the constitution and doing whatever they want. He coined a new term for the government... a Kakistrocacy! Kakistocracy means "a form of government in which the worst persons are in power", made up of people such as Hank Paulson, Tim Geithner,Ben Bernancke & Warren Buffett"

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:40 | 2971590 infinity8
infinity8's picture

Don't get me wrong - I agree that we now have a kakistocracy in the US but, Keiser didn't coin that. It's old and Greek. Here's Raconteurs rocking it from a few years back :

and they jammed in some other -ocracys to boot, like ecclesiocrocy.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:50 | 2971609 infinity8
infinity8's picture

and I felt compelled to interject this because I literally, just now, had a conversation with my buddy Mike about how shitty the press is these days, the spark being a plethora of articles about "15 states filing petitions to cecede" since the elections. Some clearly state that it's citizens in 15 states whereas some are worded to imply that states have petitioned.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 02:09 | 2971799 akak
akak's picture


US is now a Kakistocracy

Any chance that it might become an akakistocracy?

I think that I might like that better.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:14 | 2971358 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

Democracy is perfect for a country "full up" with 'Collectivists' in waiting....ripe and ready to come outta the closet and draw unto them....a nation full of lazy freeloaders, fine with collecting someone else's wealth....redistributed of course by their Overlords

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:17 | 2971363 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

All forms of government are possible in a corrupt society...............nice try though.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 01:55 | 2971783 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

How odd that only societies that have governments are corrupt.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:20 | 2971365 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

We often hear that the bottom aren't paying any taxes. Well, they clearly don't have much income if you look at earnings for the bottom 50%. Their net wealth is usually negative. They pay Social Security Tax, Medicare Tax, Property Tax, Sales Tax, just to name a few. Since they must spend every dime they make to live, they pay sales tax on most every dime they earn. Without investments, they can't profit from the low capital gains tax that high income earners feast off of.

Well, frankly, I am tired of continuing this argument. It should be self evident to any thinking person who the system benefits. The idea that the bottom are bribed by low taxes to remain passive is not true, if you look into the facts.

Sometimes this argument seems little more than the wealthy crying a river over how bad they have it in America now. yet all the income gains for decades have gone to the top, never more so than after the 2008 collapse, when the federal reserve set out to pump trillions into jucing their asset holdings in stocks.

It amazes me that as the bottom is gutted, and the middle class sinks, we hear "Oh, the greedy bastards aren't paying any income taxes".  Hey, maybe it is because they don't have JACK SHIT for income. Ever think of that?

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:07 | 2971521 A Middle Child ...
A Middle Child of History's picture

As a member of that bottom 50%, I would much rather pay higher taxes on my income than be one paycheck from destitution. I went to school to learn a technical trade (machinist), and while I make more per hour than at any other point in my life, it is no better in purchasing power than when I began my working life as an unskilled laborer. However, while my princely remuneration is barely sufficient to cover my slashed-to-the-bone expenses, it is insufficient to allow me to purchase a house or save for retirement. I have no illusions on the existence of social security when I would be elegible to collect my ponzi payout, and I do not trust banks or stocks as a way to increase my wealth if I had extra wealth to invest. Those too, will be gone by the time I will be old enough to require them.

What I have been able to do is aquire some food and supplies for the bad times to come, weapons and ammunition and means to reload that ammo when I run out, and skills that are useful and marketable when the present order of things is upended. While I have insufficient income to save for a house, I figure if I can survive the turmoil and horror of the next few years, houses will be free for the taking to those still standing. I am not alone in my thinking; not everyone who is young is asleep, and those who steal the futures of the young will have a day of reckoning when those who are being screwed have nothing to lose by fighting their tormentors.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:24 | 2971559 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

In years past your trade was probably well paid and the ticket to a middle class life. Those days are over. My first trade has long since gone extinct. Though training properly for it involved years of education and years on the job. The modern economy changes fast and the global competition means that what ever you do, there are millions in China willing to do it for less. If you are young enough, you won't remember when a technical trade could earn a fairly good living.

A good machinist in the first factory I worked in after getting out of the military could afford a house, a wife, children and a good car. Maybe even a family vacation. He  had to watch his money, but he made a middle class living. But then there were not millions of well trained Chinese or others in the global market place trying to do that job for less.

The global market place puts all labor into competition, no matter where on the globe. This drives wages down and corporate profits sky high.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:52 | 2971614 Mark Noonan
Mark Noonan's picture

To me the whole story that "well, the job you do is done more cheaply in China" is a crock.  It is only done more cheaply in China because we've set up a tax and regulatory system in the United States which makes it next to impossible for a regular man to control the means of his own livelihood.  Give up the machinist job - the job of an independent crafsman:  that is to be done in China 'cause its "cheaper"'s your $12 call center job.  Its the wave of the future!


Mon, 11/12/2012 - 13:56 | 2973240 Lester
Lester's picture

Our society was made extremely culpable to corruption due to Fiat Money.  So called Great Depression was exaccerbated by those who controlled Money Supply, since at the time, they could not deface the currency from Gold/Silver backing content...

Yet, once all real value backing was removed it was Off To The Races as to who THEY (TPTB holding reigns) could bribe, blackmail, subvert with actions made possible by "free money" created.

 Arguably, w/o market mannipulation a 90% dime would bring $10 or $20 of buying power.  When the Life Of Riley middle-class machinist made his living it was worth Ten Cents.  Carpenters also made middle-class living in the day; like up and until the mid-70s.

America was betrayed and sold-out due to many factors but money-from-nothing Fiat tops the list.  Add junkbonds, pioneered by D,L, & J and Milken to the mix, plus some imagination and you get the rest of the story.  Then there were the investment houses and banks who financed corporate raiders and courts that allowed takeover fundings paid for by the targets pension funds which were  decreed to have excess funding....


The corruption all enabled by Fiat Money...  None of the betrayers actually had their own money first; they had to have the power to create it to have access or had to be endowed by another.  The so-called Federal Reserve never had an asset or reserve requirement.  Note, they are no longer receptive to audit...


It ain't about what the citizenry fails to do, its about our leaders in every strata of government making currency off our bones and the bones of our yet unborn progeny.


These are the Desparate Hours.  TPTB need to cover their tracks or possibly face being routed, ruined, and hung.  Too many guns in America and too many broken whitemen whose ancestors built, paid-for, and invested their wealth in making America.  These will not go easy into the not good night...


Mon, 11/12/2012 - 11:23 | 2972403 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Regulatory arbitrage is more profitable than labor most of the time, in the minority of cases where labor arbitrage is more profitable than regulatory arbitrage- the destination/outcome the same in the majority of cases.  Dumbed down arguments and analyses lead to dumb solutions that don't yield the desired results.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 05:11 | 2971893 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

Last I checked, Section-8, Public Housing, EBT/SNAP, WIC, Disability for obesity, high blood pressure, depression, drug and alcohol, Obama phone, Autism/ADS payments for the children were tax free. Yes their cigarettes, Lotto/Scratch Tickets, beer wine and alcohol and 7/11 food shopping are taxed at sale.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 11:01 | 2972339 madcows
madcows's picture

I agree.  If you want to know why Mitt lost, it is his comment about the 47% that confirmed the belief that the Republican party is the Rich White guy Party.  Hannity and Rush rail about how half the country doesn't pay their share.  Their defense of this is solely based on the "Federal" income tax stats.  Well, I'm republican, and I think it's the Rich white guy party.  That stat is bogus.  If you add up all the taxes, fees and tacked on costs, then the non-rich guys pay a much higher percentage of their income to supporting the system.

Mittens thinks its appropriate to pay 14% capital gains tax on the sale of his stocks (which is 90%+ of his income), while we pay a much higher rate when you consider property taxes, gas taxes, sales taxes, state and federal income taxes, OASDI, Medicare, car registrations, etc....

FU, all politicians.  It's a war between the rich and poor, and the middle class has taken it in the ass.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 11:43 | 2972519 PoliticalRefuge...
PoliticalRefugeefromCalif.'s picture

Yeah.. I suppose Mitt doesn't pay property taxes, sales tax, or federal income tax, car registration tax, like you do.. 

It's frickin' unicorn riding populists like you that are looking for the perfect candidate with no baggage whatsoever that normal humans acquire that insures true monsters like Obama getting a free pass to inflict full fledged collectivism with no accounting.

what would it take to satisfy the truly delusional utopian like you?

Welcome to Clownifornia on steroids.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 13:33 | 2972992 madcows
madcows's picture

Hey, Dingdong, pay attention.  I didn't give Obama a pass.  I know you can't get passed the tax part of the comment.  but, Do a little more thinking and a little less reacting.  What percentage of his income goes to the various taxes?  He pays all those taxes, but they represent a far smaller portion of his income than mine.  What did he pay to register his car or fill his tank?... $500?  what's that to 20 million a year?  to him it's nothing, to us it's real money.  What did he pay in property tax?  $30,000?  again, to him that's nothing b/c he made $20 million.  His overall tax rate was 14%.  What was yours?  That's reality, not unicorns and skittles.  It's the rich vs. the takers.  The Takers won this round. I'm not buying the propaganda from either side.  Apparently you've been brainwashed by hannity and co.

You probably failed math, but here's a simple example.  If the rich have all the money, that's 100%, then they would pay 100 percent of the income tax.  Is it fair for them to bitch about paying 100% of the income tax when they have 100% of the money?  I know you can't do addition, and it's easier for you to just spew the tax line that talk radio gave you b/c you're mad at the world, and they gave you someone to target.  Do some real math, and see what your tax rate is.  It's higher than his, that's reality.

But, forget about that, the argument is about Romney losing b/c he is perceived as only representing the rich guys.  This election had two elements:  a really bad president and rich vs. poor.  If Mitt hadn't pissed off the "47%" we may have gotten rid of the most fiscally irresponsible president ever.  But, you're just as brainwashed and partisan as the Obamabots and can't read passed "taxes".


Mon, 11/12/2012 - 11:29 | 2972454 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

I'll posit a little different light on the question.  Part of the sentiment comes from middle class folks who work with indigents, for example social workers and medical professionals.  One source of constant resentment is going into the homes of indigents and finding it chocked to the gills with flat screen televisions and various electronic gadgets.  The problem?  The people who are going into the home DO NOT HAVE THESE THINGS. 

For every "stupid" indigent, there are two "smart" indigents who completely know how to milk everything out of the system or, alternatively, have help from people who find aid for indigents for a living.  For example, indigent contacts mental health agency to get xanax prescription (part to use, part to sell).  Inigent does intake, see psychiatrist, gets xanax, and gets assigned a case worker.  The case worker then begins signing up the indigent for every governmental service available.  Further, the social worker drives the indigent around, purchases de minimis items for the indigent, and generally caters to the indigent.

For a significant amount of people, it's simply not worth it to try and work a 1099 job.  Getting some government benefits and performing some cash labor on the side has a better overall benefit than going the traditional job route. 

PS, if you think that the social safety net is not in place to "bribe" lower classes to remain passive, then let's have an experiment...  let's cut off the social safety net and see how long it takes state dependents explode with passivity. 

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:17 | 2971366 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

  "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams

  "Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:34 | 2971428 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

the intelligence of our founding fathers makes one wonder if they were not actual Prophets of God.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:41 | 2971449 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

One could certainly make a strong case that Alexander Hamilton was a servant of Satan...........

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 05:20 | 2971896 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

Ever since duelling was outlawed by lawyers..Image how far Clinton. Bwarny Fwank, Ted 'Jabba The Hut' Kennedy, Tiny Tim Ghietner, would of gotten.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 11:34 | 2972479 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Really far?  Who would challenge them exactly?  G.W. got an offer to duel, but declined...

Remember, it takes TWO willing participants...  the only penalty for refusal is a shame to reputation/honor/machismo that no longer exists.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:54 | 2971618 Mark Noonan
Mark Noonan's picture

If not guided by the hand of God they were certainly the most lucky group of men who ever lived - they made the best governmental system which can be devised by man...and we've gone and screwed it up.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 00:22 | 2971658 Water Is Wet
Water Is Wet's picture

All hail the 3/5ths compromise, right Noonan?

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 07:04 | 2971942 Dr. Kenneth Noi...
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater's picture

Yeah, slave holding states should have had their slaves count as full persons in the Census so they could have more sway in the congress.  Who knows, perhaps we'd have slavery today if they did?

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 11:42 | 2972512 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

They did, and we do.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 11:48 | 2972535 PoliticalRefuge...
PoliticalRefugeefromCalif.'s picture

another unicorn rider I see, how would someone as wise as you gotten all states to ratify their own death warrant? offer them free healthcare?

maybe you should study the issue before making idiotic remarks.


Mon, 11/12/2012 - 02:31 | 2971822 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Too many people don't understand that the concept limited Government in our Constitution is necessary for liberty.  They were taught by the system that rights and "things" come from Governmnnt.  That automatically makes them a subject of the Government they depend on.  Only tyranny can follow.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 06:44 | 2971932 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

What does that tell you about a "governmental system"?

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 00:21 | 2971656 Water Is Wet
Water Is Wet's picture

Yes.  Exclusively white, male, land-owning gods...

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 02:34 | 2971826 DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

Who else was going to do it?

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 07:35 | 2971951 Incubus
Incubus's picture


Their intelligence is pretty much common fucking sense when you free yourself from the constraints of the bullshit conditioning you receive as you're growing up.

Take a step back and remove yourself from what you "think you are" and view the world objectively.

That "intelligence" will come to you. 

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:05 | 2971515 Payable on Death
Payable on Death's picture

Moral decay. That's what we have. I forget who said it, but when asked how we got Hitler, Mao, and the like, the answer was, "They forgot God."

Boys, when left to our own devices, we will err.

"The chief end of man is to glorify God and enjoy him forever."

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:54 | 2971622 Mark Noonan
Mark Noonan's picture

I believe it was Solzhenitsyn who made the statement that the problem of the 20th century was that people "forgot about God". 

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 11:42 | 2972516 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Ignoring god is fine, but you can't ignore logic...  We do both.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 00:47 | 2971697 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

"Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith."

"Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom."

"I know of no country in which there is so little independence of mind and real freedom of discussion as in America."

And here's a hilariously anachronistic finisher:
"In no other country in the world is the love of property keener or more alert than in the United States, and nowhere else does the majority display less inclination toward doctrines which in any way threaten the way property is owned."
Now remember that de Tocqueville, author of these quotations, died before the Civil War had even begun. The first quote is wrong, as morality properly defined is not conducive to liberty but quite suited to the apologetics of slavery. It would better be rendered as "Liberty cannot be maintained without ethics, nor ethics without character." Morality is a collective endeavor which tends to end up excusing the individual of responsibility for his own morality and his commitment thereto; for the individual, morality without character is like Christianity without an afterlife.
Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:18 | 2971367 booboo
booboo's picture

a demoCrazy is not only possible it is custom designed for a corrupt populace. Now a Constitutional Republic that is rooted in enforced law can only be sustained by a moral and just populace. Yea I know, you don't like that word "moral" tough shit.


Mon, 11/12/2012 - 00:55 | 2971708 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

What I don't like is the normative assumptions of which your phrase "rooted in enforced law [can only be] sustained by a moral and just populace" is so very full. Show me a moral and just populace that can consistently enforce any known corpus of laws for even 50% of its population for a whole month. History offers no examples, but, in fairness, we all have the right to dream.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 08:39 | 2971988 booboo
booboo's picture

Well you glossed over the "sustained" word. But you also assume that we were always a nation of states and not smaller enclaves of working republics. Think small and you may have a fighting chance. History is full of towns and burroughs that worked this way but it's hard for people to think this way when they are always singing "We Are The World"

I doubt you run your family as a Democracy neither did your parents, assuming you grew up in a loving stable family household that was sustained for a whole generation. Imagine that. 

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:20 | 2971375 Stares straight...
Stares straight ahead's picture

Excuse me for OT comment, but things seem to be going that way already in this thread.

Is it at all possible to start an organization staffed with young, sharp, recently graduated or unemployed lawyers to assail the administration with lawsuit after lawsuit (seems like there is plenty to choose from) in an attempt to bog them down or at least call attention to their actions?  Maybe this organization could receive volunteer donations that could be used for salaries of said lawyers and administrators.  Motivation could also be from national recognition of successful lawsuit for said lawyers.

Seems like this should be congress's job, but apparantly they are not reading anything lately.

Help me out here?!  Ideas?

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:27 | 2971396 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

You mean like a conservative Constitutional counterpart to the Southern Poverty Law Center? Your plan is fiendishly clever. I like it. Sorry, no ideas, though. I ain't that smart. Certainly a better way for the wealthy to spend their money than to pour it down superPAC rat holes.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:28 | 2971401 Stares straight...
Stares straight ahead's picture


Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:42 | 2971451 seataka
seataka's picture

If the Rutherford Institute near Charlottesville had the funding, they might. Of course with enough money anything is possible... just turn on main stream TV and watch the news.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:04 | 2971514 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

Excellent suggestion!! I was leary about John Whitehead posting his articles at Huffpo, but the Rutherford Institute is a capable defender of the Constitution.

Everyone check out the Rutherford Institute! They have been successfully defending freedom since 1982. What a timely article on their homepage!

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:34 | 2971580 Stares straight...
Stares straight ahead's picture


Just returned from their website with this chilling account of a marine they are representing who exercised his 1st amendment rights and was incarcerated for it.

Watch the video. It is long but gets real interesting around 11:30. Later in the video one hears that this is happening more and more with 20 people being arrested in this fashion in his county, in VA, in August, alone.  100,000 people nationally!

Everyone should support this organization.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:13 | 2971527 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Try the American Center for Law and Justice.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 03:07 | 2971846 W T Effington
W T Effington's picture

As a law student I like where you are going. However, In my judgement the system is so biased that I fear it would not produce much for us. I hope I am wrong. When the supreme court assumed the power to "judicially review" the constitutionality of federal laws we, limited government supporters, began to lose the fight. This happened in 1803 with Marbury v. Madison. The supreme court is likely to always rule in favor of their sister branches in tyranny. Secession was the only full proof method of limiting their control and unfortunately most people these days don't think that is necessary because they are blind to how bad things are and will get. Government is a parasite and in my view the only way I see the parasite dieing is if they finally kill the host. (I.E. Currency is worthless). Hopefully at that point we will have liberated enough minds to begin anew in the ways of liberty and voluntarism. There is a distinct possibility that it will go against us, though, like Germany after the collapse of the Weimar Republic. We need to do our best to convince our communities now of the morality and value of liberty before the SHTF at which point people will simply be looking for someone to demonize and hang from the lamp posts. I doubt many people from the ignorant masses will be able to put aside their anger at that point and listen to reason and logic about the real causes of our mess and how we need to move forward.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 10:35 | 2972270 Stares straight...
Stares straight ahead's picture

So "damn, dirty" depressing!

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 11:58 | 2972572 PoliticalRefuge...
PoliticalRefugeefromCalif.'s picture


The reason they get away with outright lies and distortions is because of a fawning, lying media.. maybe that should be the primary target of pressure to reform- or I predict it could easily become the target of a future civil uprising. 

Frustrated, oppressed people target normally what they can reach, However it's hard to reach out and touch the insulated- after all, they have their Pinkertons.

However the media has it's whole flank exposed.

1970's Northern Ireland, here we come.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 16:56 | 2973886 archon
archon's picture

You're talking about right-wing community organizing.  I like it too.  It will be more difficult for right-wing types to do that kind of thing because most right-wing people don't have as much free time as the left-wing types... you know, families, jobs, life, etc...

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:21 | 2971377 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

2 Billion wasted and not a Fucking thing changed

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:24 | 2971388 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Iraq, Afghanistan  2 TRILLION wasted, not a fucking thing changed, except the graveyards are now fuller. ANd tens of thousands of people are maimed for life.

America, spreading freedom and democracy. It's for their own good we kill them.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:32 | 2971411 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

the govt figures its better to keep a few hundred thousand pissed off EMPLOYED soldiers in wars than have those same guys pissed off and UNEMPLOYED in the US. plus- who is going to protect the Afghanistan poppy fields/heroin cash cow for the CIA/DEA from a return of the Taliban and their poppy field destruction?

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 02:42 | 2971833 DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

Not quite true, they got the poppy fields producing again and the drug money is flowing more freely.


Mon, 11/12/2012 - 07:40 | 2971956 Incubus
Incubus's picture

When I made these points immediately after 9/11, I was ostracized as being some unpatriotic asshole.

Too bad the world is catching up more than a decade later. Funny how time teaches the masses of all of you TOTALLY FUCKING STUPID people what is fucking evident from the get-go.


None of you have my sympathy. Time to learn, fuckers.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:24 | 2971382 diesheepledie
diesheepledie's picture

Are you kidding? A democracy ALWAYS ends in collapse. You cannot grant the ultimate power to the Mob. The useless eaters, the takers, the looters, the sheeple horde ...  The banker elites are benign compared to the animalistic zombie masses. I hope Loyd Blankfein hires Eric Prince and a band of uber-mercenaries to take it all over by force and declares himself King, followed by mass cleansing of all the inner cities with Sarin gas. We would be infinitely better off than we are now.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:25 | 2971390 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

I'll take corrupt 1/2 hearted attempts at Freedom , over 2 Darfur style stumps any day!

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:28 | 2971398 Timmay
Timmay's picture

Maybe you weren't watching but.... the banker elites were not "Benign".  This cancer is terminal.


Or.... are you the new MDB??

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:33 | 2971422 diesheepledie
diesheepledie's picture

One of the differences between me and MDB is that I mean what I say. The sheeple are evil. Stupid and evil like mind fucked rabid animals; and they are legion. Therefore dangerous. Banksters just understand this and therefore have no conscience when it comes to fleecing them. They just don't go far enough IMO.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:42 | 2971454 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Ok, " Rod Serlings"ghost... back to the Twilight Zone for you.  MBD is a child, and you are a hack!


Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:29 | 2971409 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

Damn! You are a vicious and nasty little man. I thought I was evil for wanting to send them all back to their ancestral country of origin.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:36 | 2971430 diesheepledie
diesheepledie's picture

"country of origin"? Are you refering to the negros, or the latinos? And you don't think there are whites in the looter class? Or do they go back as well?

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:47 | 2971470 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Those "Horn Rimmed" glasses match your Hannibal Lecter Suit", Mr. Crowley

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:52 | 2971492 diesheepledie
diesheepledie's picture

That picture was from my prime. And those were actually the style at the time son.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:57 | 2971506 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Lockheed Martin , "skunkworks"; file photo?

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:30 | 2971571 samsara
samsara's picture

My god,  I thought the picture was Henry Kissinger, and it made perfect sense. 

"Useless Eaters"  and all...

Now you say it'a a picture of you? 

(Still makes sense I guess.)


Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:48 | 2971477 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

Honestly, I hadn't thought it through that far. I could certainly support a moratorium on all immigration. At the very least, prospects should be vetted and IQ tested. Furthermore, they should be from a similiar culture and religion as the predominant ones.

If we had a massive social and economic collapse, your wish could easily come true and no sarin gas would be required.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:54 | 2971496 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 [ vic], I'm not a big immigration fan. It was the 9/10ths of his comment I found disturbing..

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:38 | 2971442 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

I like that kinda anger on Veteran's Day. Much better placed than the 'mindless' endorsing endless wars with shameless Zombyism


Stay angry.....'South Pole Elves'.....stay angry

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 03:13 | 2971775 xtop23
xtop23's picture

Ahhhhh, the visual delight of hyperbole.

The first part of your post had me.....then you went all crazy n' shit and ya lost me again.

99% of the time, the society in question ends up MUCH less free rather than more free post collapse.

I'm anxious for a collapse that results in a return to individual freedom. 

A collapse that results in a civilization that even Aldous Huxley would cringe at?

Not so much.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 03:29 | 2971857 diesheepledie
diesheepledie's picture

You don't like Erik? He's a fine young man that really got railroaded by Congress. Private mercenary armies are the future. At least on American soil. After all, the Constitution forbids having a standing federal army deployed here, so the enlightened benevolent corporate leaders and bankers need to have someone to defend them from the animal horde. Lord knows the leaching lazy state and local police won't do it.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:28 | 2971403 Elmer Fudd
Elmer Fudd's picture

Most of the citizenry still have no concept how the financial aristocracy impacts their lives, they still see it as impacting those that actually own stocks or something, in other words, other rich people, so its quite nebulous to them.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:35 | 2971431 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Nebulous. I like that ;-)

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:30 | 2971412 phat ho
phat ho's picture

Democracy Inc.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:33 | 2971424 PLove
PLove's picture

Terrorists parade as Mother Nature.

Sandy was an inside job.


Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:39 | 2971444 Payable on Death
Payable on Death's picture

I used to believe. I just can't anymore. The bailouts did it. I used to defend high pay with, "they took the risk". Turns out, THEY didn't. YOU did.

I believe in capitalism (read some Geo. Gilder for the moral case), I can't believe that's what we have now. (Duh. I know. )

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:40 | 2971447 tooriskytoinvest
Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:49 | 2971480 Steve in Greensboro
Steve in Greensboro's picture

Can one even call it democracy when elections are as corrupted by voter fraud as the 2012 presidential elections were in FL, PA, OH, VA et al?

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:52 | 2971489 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

"Is Democracy Possible In A Corrupt Society?"

For a while.  There's not a switch; it takes time to unwind.

"We will cover the five core reasons why things are falling apart:"

You missed the core reason, Mr. Smith.

(And be careful as you shamelessly promote... now to a degree that feels uncomfortable.
Just trying to be helpful.)

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 22:56 | 2971490 JR
JR's picture

On a plantation there are no ranks. There are only the overseers and the workers.

In short, there is no middle class.

The goal of the Keynesians, the fascist socialists in Washington DC, is to create Plantation America by policy - by destroying America’s true middle class: the small businessmen and professionals who employ 50-70% of American workers. Destroy them and you destroy America.

And how better to do it than by “democracy,” by redefining “middle class” to encompass 96 percent of the American people?

Obama’s definition does it: “I’m calling on Congress to extend the tax cuts for the 98 percent of Americans who make less than $250,000 for another year… I don’t want to raise taxes on the middle class.” –July 9 speech at the White House.

To Obama, said Stephanie Steinbrecher of Claremont Port Side, the middle class is essentially an all-inclusive group of people to which he wants to provide relief.

Romney joined in the misrepresentation with: Middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less.” -- September 13 in an interview with George Stephanopoulos of ABC News.

To Romney and the GOP, apparently, the middle class is the mob, whose votes can be bought if you can offer them enough free stuff to outdo the Democrats.

However, by historic reality and by statistician T.H.C. Stevenson, the middle class is that class that falls between the upper class and the working class.

In short, the politicians, slouching forever onward toward a Bolshevistic new world plantation,  have redefined “middle class” using Orwellian political doublespeak to mean those individuals who earn middle income annually, which, according to The Census Bureau’s report for 2011, sets the median annual income at $50,054.

And, says William Lutz in his bestselling book Doublespeak, doublespeak“is not an accident or a ‘slip of the tongue.’ Instead, it is a deliberate, calculated misuse of language.”

IOW, by misnaming the true middle class as the “rich,” the politicians have destroyed the true meaning of economic classes, for their own benefit, using the majority against the  smaller entreprenuerial middle class by redefining for their own purposes the “classes.” To wit, the middle class will be what they say it is; for Obama it is his supporters and the redefined “rich” are those who “have not been paying their fair share” to the mob.

Unfortunately for wage-earners, by destroying the nation's true middle class of small businessmen and professionals and self-made entrepreneurs produced in a free market, as Soviet Russia did, to tax to oblivion by labeling them "rich" those who do three-quarters of “the stuff which above all others makes a great people“ by keeping the machine going, they are destroying the very people who give the working man a job.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:18 | 2971553 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

Impressive post. Thank you for the information. I will have to pick up Lutz's Doublespeak.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:07 | 2971524 Sincerely Human
Sincerely Human's picture

Human by definition pursues insight. Community of people devoted to Human nature, which was to cooperate in their self-determination, by definition is democracy . REAL Human always free .

As for those feudalistic psychopaths  ; some up in Canada now have chosen to inform the government & the UN that

1) That the individuals declare himself/her as a hostage debt serf & not a part of any truly non hostile self determination that can be refer ed to as "democracy".

2) as debt-serfs, they now consider themselves to be forced accomplice of a corrupt hostile action towards the world that has been perpetrated by those who've occupied Canada's centers of power

..., ..., ...,         ....... 


Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:08 | 2971525 Moon Pie
Moon Pie's picture

Andrew Jackson was our last best hope of any semblance of equity as it pertains to currency management.  It was ultimately set aside. 

What the "Lincoln" movie, nor any other will touch upon is that during and after the civil war, US Bonds were required to be on deposit with Treasury for all "National" banks, which were growing then. 

This totally set the stage for the creation of the Federal Reserve Corp., and the rest, as they say, is history. 

Its certainly interesting to point out all the terrible aspects of the current system, but it will not change, as much as I'd like it to.  It's all now entirely committed, all bets placed, all markers held, towards an inter continental system and I don't see how it can be reversed.  Oil can move the needle a little.  Provide a respite, but the fact is that an unelected, non-representative entity will call the shots on an even larger scale.  They've been calling them already.

Someone tell me how this is stopped, and I'll tell you how to stop the sun from setting tomorrow.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:59 | 2971628 Mark Noonan
Mark Noonan's picture

Ever read Jackson's veto message on the Second Bank of the United States?  We need an hour of Jackson, right now.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 00:06 | 2971637 Mark Noonan
Mark Noonan's picture

Just an hour of him...

...Is there no danger to our liberty and independence in a bank that in its nature has so little to bind it to our country? The president of the bank has told us that most of the State banks exist by its forbearance. Should its influence become concentered, as it may under the operation of such an act as this, in the hands of a self-elected directory whose interests are identified with those of the foreign stockholders, will there not be cause to tremble for the purity of our elections in peace and for the independence of our country in war? Their power would be great whenever they might choose to exert it; but if this monopoly were regularly renewed every fifteen or twenty years on terms proposed by themselves, they might seldom in peace put forth their strength to influence elections or control the affairs of the nation. But if any private citizen or public functionary should interpose to curtail its powers or prevent a renewal of its privileges, it can not be doubted that he would be made to feel its influence...

Yeah, what he said - pity no one remembered this in 1913...

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 00:51 | 2971703 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

That "passage'should be read on the floors of both houses when they discuss current budget concerns...

 That passage should be plastered on the ceilings of both "legislative" chambers!

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 01:43 | 2971725 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

The bankers were happy to not read that, nor remember it.

Hegemony requires ignorance of the spirit of the individual, and the programmed ingnorance of the sanctity of it.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:08 | 2971526 bnbdnb
bnbdnb's picture

I think the two party system is making people stupid.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:15 | 2971540 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

A thought provoking and well reasoned post. I appreciate your scholarship and effort.

Slightly OT, be sure to check out the Rutherford Institute. I think that you will appreciate their efforts.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:17 | 2971548 illyia
illyia's picture

No. That is why it is corrupt. (Think about it...)

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:32 | 2971564 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

A Democracy is merely a political ideology, and as such is amoral. When practiced by moral and just people it has the capacity to serve well. When practiced by a corrupt and immoral people it becomes an instrument of evil.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:39 | 2971589 Payable on Death
Payable on Death's picture

Yeah. Probably true--a product of a fallen creation. Still, I wonder if there is a God-ordained system of political economy.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:24 | 2971561 P.T.Bull
P.T.Bull's picture

How about some clarity of thought here. Democracy is alive and well in the united states. Those of us who are libertarians lament the fact that over 50% of voters think obama is worth electing president, but we are suffering the tyrrany of the ignorant, not a lack of democracy.

There are third parties on ballots; americans choose not to vote for them--they can kill the two party system any time they want, and they choose not to.

When an electorate has been dumbed down by a socialist educational system for two generations, its to be expected that they will be credulous in the face of con artists in the two party system.

I would re-word the question as: Can capitalism survive in a democracy? Can individual liberties survive in a democracy? Can prosperity survive a nation selling its seed corn?

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 01:28 | 2971756 AynRandFan
AynRandFan's picture

Great post, P.T.Bull.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 06:23 | 2971923 JR
JR's picture

Fiat money is tyranny - the power and the influence reside in the hands of those who control the creation of new money and who gets it.

Nathan Mayer Rothschild 1777-1836 deserves his place in our history books: "I care not what puppet is placed upon the throne of England to rule the Empire on which the sun never sets. The man who controls Britain's money supply controls the British Empire, and I control the British money supply." 

The “mysterious” men who met on Jekyll Island may have used code names but make no mistake, one name that was there in power if not in person was Rothschild.

The deliberate crime against America is socialism, i.e., turning the masses into a voting weapon in support of the tyrannyThe tyrants, armed with fiat currency, deliberately turned the Republic into a democracy so that they could use the masses for their support—allowing the non-propertied man and non-citizen to vote himself property and special privilege at the expense of the middle class.

Patriotic Americans have been voicing their concern and intensified anger for decades and every attempt to take back their country has been met with force (opposition to the militia movement), court decisions overturning popular referendums such as term limits for Congress and control of immigration and borders (California's Prop 187 overturned by one Federal judge), loss of states’ rights (direct election of senators), federal control and manipulation of voting regulations, deliberate destruction of the grassroots two-party system, hamstringing of third party movements, gerrymandering to protect purchased incumbents, expansive support for lobbyists working against the people…

Every attempt by the people to peaceably rise up against this tyranny has been blocked by the banker-controlled judges, by an executive branch completely under the control of Wall Street elites, and by a congress responsive to lobbyists rather than citizens….in other words, by fiat money exercising it power.

Americans march by the millions (the Iraq War), they yell, they carry signs, they blog, they attend town hall meetings (Obamacare), they form protest movements, they fight for their right to keep and bear arms, they man borders, they try to vote in referendums to protect their property and their culture (Arizona and California), they fight against the odds and the media to form third parties to thwart a rigged two-party voting system, they try to stay financially two steps ahead of the Fed only to be blocked and ambushed again and again and again…all the while tied down like Gulliver by a million Lilliputian regulatory strings.

Is it any wonder that when the Federal Reserve Banks were opened for business on November 16, 1914, the mastermind of the System, Paul Warburg (a Rothschild rep) said, “This date may be considered as the Fourth of July in the economic history of the United States”?

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:31 | 2971576 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture


Netanyahu to Meet Foreign Ambassadors on Gaza Setting the stage for a Gaza attack? Netanyahu calls a meeting with foreign ambassadors serving in Israel.
Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:33 | 2971578 JuliaS
JuliaS's picture

Democracy is a corrupt society. That's why we were envisioned as a Constitutional Republic instead.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:37 | 2971584 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Corruption has always existed in all forms of gubbermint.

Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:45 | 2971598 Divine Wind
Divine Wind's picture



I truly believe that this country became the greatest, most influential, productive, creative and mighty nation of our age because of the Judea-Christian principles upon which it was founded. When God was recognized and in the picture, we were a blessed nation. Sure, we have always had corruption, greed, etc..., but the overall blessing and common grace we experienced is undeniable. 

Anyone who has traveled outside of the U.S. knows this first hand. America is...err...was... one of the most desirous places on the planet to live. To this day people risk their life to get here because of the opportunities, prosperity and promise of freedoms unheard of in their own countries.


Once THEY started removing any and all vestiges of the Christian God from the picture, things started going sideways.

Now, the country has willfully reelected a President and party based on a platform made up of the sins found in Romans Chapter 1, the things God specifically says he despises:

  1. God no longer recognized
  2. Murder (abortion)
  3. Homo marriage
  4. Fornication (+ gov-supplied birth control)

History clearly shows that nations having gone down this path end in ruin.

In response to the question asked in the title of this article:

No, it is not possible. A corrupt society will consume itself because of the inherent lack of morality and honor.


Sun, 11/11/2012 - 23:54 | 2971620 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Let the Spanish Inquisition Begin!

Bless me Father for I have sinned! Beat me! Beat me! Go ahead and EAT ME!

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 01:25 | 2971750 AynRandFan
AynRandFan's picture

I'm an atheist but he's a lot closer to the truth than you are. Maybe you think morals are just a random historical curiosity. If so, you would be wrong. Cultural norms are just as often borne of painful human experience as they are by irrational prejudice.

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