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On America's Generous "Patriotic Millionaires" Who Just Can't Wait To Pay Down The US Debt

Tyler Durden's picture


Several months ago, an ad hoc consortium of self-proclaimed millionaires, sent a letter to Obama, Reid and Boehner, demanding that "for the fiscal health of our nation and the well-being of our fellow citizens, we ask that you increase taxes on incomes over $1,000,000." This grass roots initiative was formed in the aftermath of Warren Buffett's, since defunct, proposal to impose a "millionaire tax" rule. Of course, back then, as now, someone actually did the math and realized what the impact of such as tax would be in the grand scheme of the next decade of deficits, as we reported previously, and as summarized below.

One can see why not only the "Buffett Rule" but any attempt to balance the budget without collapsing government spending, would at best result in laughter, at least for those who who are still proficient with the occasional abacus.

The reason we bring up the issue of America's "Patriotic Millionaires" is that today once again, one of them made an appearance on CNBC, preaching why it is for the common good that there be a mandatory tax for all those who earn $1 million or more, because it is someone's view that the government is far better at finding subzero IRR ways of destroying capital (by definition) - something the US government has proven its efficiency with time and again, and certainly not only just under the current administration, but virtually every single one since the advent of income tax. As another reminder, this is how efficient the US government has been at creating deficits, if not so much surpluses, since 1900:

Luckily, as all these very much informed millionaires know quite well, the US Treasury has a dedicated section, named simply, which allows anyone: billionaires (here's looking at you Mr. Buffett), millionaire, or even thousandaire, to make a donation which is used directly to pay down the US debt. Because in the absence of the government mandating rich people pay their "fair share" (as determined by a subcommittee of course) for now at least, there is always that other alternative: voluntary action, as per the auspices of something called free will.

And not only that, but the US Treasury also provides the general public with a running tally of just how much "Patriotic Millionaire" initiatives have given so far to paying down said debt. As in talk is cheap, signing petitions even cheaper, but putting money where your mouth is actually does go to the bottom line.

The bottom line so far in 2012? $7.7 Million - this is how much has been volunteered in total gifts to pay down the US debt.

So doing some quick math:

There were 165 signatories to the original "Patriotic Millionaires" list, among which Nouriel Roubini, Leo Hindery, Rick Schottenfield, and mysteriously, Whitney Tilson. One should of course add Warren Buffett: the progenitor of the grassroots movement. Thus a total of 166. In other words, assuming only these 166 people donated cash to the US Treasury in 2012 to pay down the debt (while a potential tax deal awaits), the average patriotic millionaire has donated a whopping of $46,684.45 toward paying down the US debt.

Putting this in context:

  • There is $16.245 trillion in debt
  • US population is at 314,694,000 most recently.

This amounts to $51,622.6 in debt for every man, woman and child (and excludes all the tens of trillions in unfunded welfare obligations).

In other words, assuming America's "Patriotic Millionaire" grassroots movement donated, (naturally this is a big assumption, but for the sake of humor we will go with it) on a pro-rata basis, have given $5K less than they owe as part of their natural funding obligation to the US.

And this is from the people who continue getting media time for being so "generous" they are willing to give out their money, and everyone else's, for the common good. Or at least, of course, until one actually calculates how much of their own money they have given.

Such as this guy.

But certainly hold your breath, because these same people, all of whom are very intimately aware of the details of offshore tax havens, have armies of accountants whose jobs are precisely to find creative ways to minimize their tax obligations, and, not to mention, numerous Swiss bank accounts, if not so aware of the website, just can't wait to fund America's $16.3 trillion in public debt... and rising at $100 billion each month.

But hey: in a world in which actions are cheaper than talk, who cares - after all they "signed the petition." And that is what true patriotism is all about.


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Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:22 | 2973331 cossack55
cossack55's picture

What about we dollaraires?

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:25 | 2973344 redpill
redpill's picture

Donating debt reduction money to the treasury is like buying Gary Busey an 8-ball.  He might be happy to see it, but it doesn't help in the long run.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:28 | 2973355 mckee
mckee's picture

f'n hilarious

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:35 | 2973367 no taste
no taste's picture

Buffett is about as patriotic as a bankrobber who drops a nickel on a homeless veteran who has no legs.  Or am I thinking of Jamie Dimon again?  Nope, Jamie dropped a dime.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:39 | 2973385 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture




John D. Rockefeller gave away dimes when they were 90% silver and he was worth $900,000,000. 

"He believed in The Law of Tenfold Return,i.e.if he gave happily, joyfully and confidently then for every dime he gave away he would receive a dollar, happy, joyfully and confidently, in return from providence."

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:39 | 2973410 redpill
redpill's picture

Gee what a fuckin saint.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:45 | 2973433 macholatte
macholatte's picture

.....putting money where your mouth is actually does go to the bottom line.


It's not called bribery, it's called a campaign contribution, and it definitely does affect the bottom line.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 15:08 | 2973516 Fredo Corleone
Fredo Corleone's picture

Re: ""

Are donations tax deductible ?

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 15:11 | 2973530 Tippoo Sultan
Tippoo Sultan's picture


Mon, 11/12/2012 - 15:51 | 2973684 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

 Charles "Suck It Up Taxpayers B/C We Kleptocrats Need To Socialize Our Losses" Munger. where have you gone??!!!

 Warren "Senators Son" Buffett, we need your Gates Foundation money now more than ever!!!

There's a rumor that the economic structure that's built on MODERN MONEY MECHANICS is one big green & white fiatski-paper house of cards Ponzi!

p.s. - It's a good thing someone preserved the record of what was the Federal Reserve admitting that fractional reserve banking is a fundamental fraud and illusion in that link. Here's the play-by-play as to the exact way the ponzi plays out:

Some years ago the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago published a workbook on bank reserves and deposit expansion entitled, “Modern Money Mechanics.” The pamphlet describes the process of money creation under fractional reserve banking and gives unparallelled insight into the failings of our monetary system.

Modern Money Mechanics: How To Make and Destroy Money

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 16:17 | 2973770 no taste
no taste's picture

Charlie Munger will spend a penny (of Warren's money) for homeless, legless veterans.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 16:34 | 2973819 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

Wimpy says, "I would gladly give you $2 tomorrow for a cheesburger today".  Obama says give me a dollar today and I'll give you $2.50 in spending cuts...amortized over 25 years at Libor plus 20%.  What a fucking great deal. I'd rather do the cheeseburger deal with Wimpy.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 16:52 | 2973867 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

Fuck you, Ben Bernanke!

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 17:08 | 2973915 TruthInSunshine
Mon, 11/12/2012 - 17:36 | 2974043 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Want to see what pure unadulterated Revenge looks like? Don't tell me I shouldn't have chosen Uma Thurman style revenge in Kill Bill. I was there at the St Petersburg Florida Straw Poll and CNN Debate in 2007. I saw Romney supporters with dozens of ballots each, stuffing the ballot box for their scum.

I'm still gloating about getting my Pure unadulterated Revenge, that I got in helping make Mitt Romney lose. That's all it is about for a bunch of the Ron Paul Crew. No other reason matters to us in this regard.

Want to Know Why the GOP Suffered Deliciously? 
Want to know the real reason the right wing media in collaboration with the rest of the mainstream media, who knew they work together, did not mention Ron Paul in Mitt Romney's loss till today?

Listen to a Ron Paul supporter gloat about voting for Obama and why.

Alex Jones Caller Ron Paul Revenge Voters For Obama 11/09/2012

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 15:54 | 2973701 I am more equal...
I am more equal than others's picture



10-fold deductible.  Put me down for $10.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 15:55 | 2973705 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

there's a disturbing tidal shift of throw-in-the-towelers*

cynics/pragmatists suggesting: what the hell -- don't even try.

reid wants to add 2.4T? screw it. add 24.4T. or 244.4T. stop dragging it out. 

*however, most people are really excited about dragging out a middle-class-ending wealth-trasferring biflationary auster-recession for 15 or 20 years

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 16:36 | 2973827 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

"Who is John Galt?"

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:53 | 2973466 john39
john39's picture

looks to me like he would like to sink his fangs into that kid's neck...

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 15:00 | 2973482 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

And Carnegie, and Vanderbilt. Vampire trio.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:59 | 2973484 redpill
Mon, 11/12/2012 - 16:54 | 2973874 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

How many Dimes?


Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:52 | 2973464 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Was he running for POTUS or something?...

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 15:00 | 2973491 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

John D. Barackefeller?

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 17:39 | 2974051 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

and don't forget John D. Romneyfeller.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 15:16 | 2973556 GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

Yeah, but he kept all the 1916 D's.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 16:10 | 2973724 monad
monad's picture

"Sorry I had your parents shot, kid. Here's a dime. How would you like to come work in my copper mine? There's plenty more where that came from."

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 18:40 | 2974263 IPsecurityinIT
IPsecurityinIT's picture

Talk about righteous robbery...

(yes I am mad but it makes me so happy... hope I don't seem as strange as knulckles)

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 22:43 | 2974936 knukles
knukles's picture


Tue, 11/13/2012 - 02:36 | 2975325 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

It's the clown costume (and the avatar looks like you're popping out of a clothesdryer!) :>D

Still, "Zippy the Pinhead" is one of my favorite comic strips of all time.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 16:36 | 2973824 Stock Tips Inve...
Stock Tips Investment's picture

What we need is a realistic plan that allows us to erase the deficit affecting the economy as little as possible. The best solution would be to reduce government spending to close this imbalance. That is not currently possible politically. I think the second best option would be to lower the cost of government a significant portion (eg half the deficit) and increase debt limits to not affect liquidity. I think not happen. I think what will happen is that taxes will go up a bit, the cost will decrease slightly and the deficit is not going to close. Let this be so negative? depends on how much lower the deficit.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 02:39 | 2975332 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Here's an idea:  Institute a "Govt Employees work for free day" (perhaps for every Federal Holiday).  I'll bet the Greek Parliamentarian support staff will stand up and take notice re:  US Govt Employee negotiating tactics...

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:30 | 2973364 knukles
knukles's picture

Yeah, and just you all wait.
That $1,000,000 rich person threshold income is gonna turn into $50,000 unadjusted gross for single and $50,001 uag for couples.

This has nothing to do with taxing the rich for the benefit of the poor, it has to do with accumulation of money, power, property and prestige for the New Versailles. 

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:38 | 2973405 redpill
redpill's picture

There's a reason these criminals favor using fixed dollar amounts as arbitrary tax thresholds.  The AMT is a perfect example.  With all the complicated aspects of the tax code, you're telling me they couldn't use a sliding scale of income that is adjusted for inflation and local cost of living?  Of course they could, but they don't so that an increasing number of people get included in their same old tax brackets.  Automatic tax increase without changing a word of the tax code.  Assholes.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 19:25 | 2974429 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

At least the lying scumbag poiticos in the UK index everything to inflation.

Including capital gains.

Unicorn fart manipulated CPI of course,better than nothing like here..

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:39 | 2973409 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

If there is any such thing as "re-incarnation", I'd only hope that it is a justice based system so that SELF RIGHTEOUS BAGS OF SHIT (like Buffett) could reap what they pontificate about...

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 16:29 | 2973800 Zenseless
Zenseless's picture

There's a special place in hell for Buffett.  In my case, I taped a picture of his smiling visage to the inside of my toilet bowl lid. After taking a particularly noxious dump, I don't flush, close the lid and let him stew in the juices, so to speak. Should I be worried that I have unresolved issues?

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 16:43 | 2973846 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

You are sick.  Not because of what you do to the picture, but you should go see a doctor about those noxious dumps.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 17:07 | 2973928 viahj
viahj's picture

taco bell and cheap beer is all

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 22:46 | 2974945 knukles
knukles's picture

Only if those loaves disturb the fleshy lumps lining your rectal area.
Otherwise, ruminating about poops is fine for guys (only) but never, ever play with it. (Taboo)

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 15:36 | 2973629 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

will the gays still want marriage if they have to pay extra for it?

(since if congress doesn't act the penalty comes back)

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:36 | 2973388 The trend is yo...
The trend is your friend's picture

That 7 million was probably funded by the US treasury to try to get the ball rolling.  Kind of like at a open bar where the bartender puts out a jar and places his own $5 in to get the mooching patrons at least to tip him.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 15:01 | 2973485 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Now John at the bar is a friend of mine

He gets me my drinks for free

And he's quick with a joke

or to light up your smoke

But there's somewhere that he's rather be...


Mon, 11/12/2012 - 15:09 | 2973518 GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

My thoughts exactly. How many of their millions came from taxpayer funded bailouts since 2008? Or even from before that?

But hey, they are the guys who take ALL the risk and come up with the bright ideas (it never has anything to do with being pulled from the right crotch or from crushing everyone in their path or fucking over their business partner or family).

It reminds me of my father-in-law who calls Obama a socialist and is afraid he will "redistribute wealth". When I mention taxpayer money propping up the stock markets, which contain HIS 401K money, and the financial sector, and how that has redistributed wealth upwards, he doesn't see that as socialism or welfare. You gotta love the cognitive dissonance of small town republicans.

Too many folks cannot overcome their false beliefs to see what is before their eyes. The owners know all they have to do is wave a flag, recite the pledge and throw out some iconic patriotic shit and the masses of sheople will fall into line. Such is life in the so-called Land of the Free.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 19:22 | 2974422 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Well, on the bright side, in America you can be rest assured that bullshit will always remain free....

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 01:01 | 2975199 Incubus
Incubus's picture

Nope. That has a price as well.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:35 | 2973389 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

because the government can give away money so much better than the person that earned it. what an x-tard is this Buffet!

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 17:03 | 2973908 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

You will find that I am kind. Unlike the cruel republicans who demanded that you stand. I require only that you kneel.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 02:43 | 2975338 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

I see what you did there.

"Molon Labe"

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:47 | 2973446 GottaBKiddn
GottaBKiddn's picture

What debt? If the money is created out of thin air, how can the debt be real? It's a con.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 15:47 | 2973673 Captain Kink
Captain Kink's picture

I like it.  I think you are on to something there...we could print like a trillion a year and just buy all the debt into a 'bad bank"... wait, already happening. 

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:57 | 2973478 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

As one that contributed via the hidden tax of the FED and the overt tax of the Treasury, I'm left a nillionaire.

My contributions will be restricted to those already imposed.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 15:52 | 2973691 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

I don't want to tax all millionaires......just banksters and speculators and other parasites.  If I win at Vegas, the IRS comes calling.  No different from the Wall Street casino and their "capital gains" scams.....

Let the negative votes fly.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:24 | 2973338 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

Boy I'm inspired. I'm going to send them a quarter right fucking now. Bet that puts me ahead of old Uncle Fraud

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:55 | 2973469's picture



"Oh, Rusty, you are an inspiration to us all."


"I'll say! I'm going to start a paper route right now."

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:59 | 2973488 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

Not a bad idea.  I may give them my 'two cents worth'.  Contribute in pennies.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 15:10 | 2973529 machineh
machineh's picture

Be warned -- I sent a nickel to Clinton's legal defense fund back when, and never even received a reply.

Now he don't need the money ...

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:24 | 2973339 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Topic for discussion: If the "USA" were listed and tradeable on the NYSE, what would be its market cap?

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:26 | 2973343 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

It has a negative market cap...

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 15:22 | 2973587 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

In dollars?... bazillions of joobucks...

In gold?... Squat...

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 18:23 | 2974196 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

It's worth  a hundred million brazilion.

How many million in a brazilion?

I mean brazilion reals.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 15:08 | 2973512 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Are you suggesting that sovereignty is for sale?  I think I see the problem here.  What if I have the means to use the resources on and under my property?  I might exchange some for gold, if need be.  Otherwise, fuck off.  How's that petro dollar again?

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:24 | 2973341 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

Is it tax deductible?

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:27 | 2973345 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Even Holder must expect some repercussions. Heard he's getting out of Dodge. Feinstein is going to stay on and try to disarm the people. Hillary is packing. So is Geitner. He'll probably go into hiding after what he's done. Left Obama in tears in that one video. Obama end up using again. Bet ya.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:26 | 2973346 SemperFord
SemperFord's picture

Any money donated to this ponzi is a waste, it would be better off sending an American to learn a skill, whether machining, electrical work, etc.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:26 | 2973351 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

They could confiscate all the 'millionaries' assets and not put a ding in the national debt. These people are assholes.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:32 | 2973372 knukles
knukles's picture

And if they do that, they only get to do it once....

Of Geese and Golden Eggs

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:26 | 2973352 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Someone's bucket has a drop in it.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:27 | 2973353 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Profitting from regulatory capture and your store bought political puppets is one thing, paying back anything is another thing altogether.

Hedge accordingly.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:33 | 2973354 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture



Warren still wouldn't pay more even with a new tax because he hides his Bailed Out Billions in Gates Tax Exempt Foundation so does Gates, they only pay themselves nominal salaries purposely to avoid taxes CLOSE THOSE LOOPHOLES and then let's hear what that old creep has to say! New taxes on people who are just building their wealth and business's that is who would actually be hurt and that would benefit the Buffoon! 

These tax the rich schemes only end up taxing newly created wealth and the middle class.

Buffet's Will Says - The foundation must continue to satisfy the legal requirements qualifying Warren’s gift as charitable, exempt from gift or other taxes. 

In other words, the President’s "Buffett Rule" would not tax the vast majority of Buffett’s own sheltered income, including either his unrealized capital gains, which are currently taxed at 0%, or charitable contributions, which are tax deductible.

What a scam his kids will manage and make money from all this tax exempt money forever he has set up charitable organizations with billions in them for each of them to run that pay them$90 Million a year besides his hiding wealth in gate's foundation.


HITlary clinton tax the rich everywhere (might as well say except well connected cronies)

As I said previously I think we should stop the spending and the government should get out of my pocketbook but I think people should be aware of how the scam for the well connected ultra wealthy works.


Mon, 11/12/2012 - 20:22 | 2974562 Blankenstein
Blankenstein's picture

And if Buffett thinks taxes are so damn great, why is he fighting them tooth and nail?


"There are two recent cases where Warren has done everything possible to AVOID paying taxes that he actually owes. The first case involved a 14-year fight over the dividend-received deduction that was finally settled with the IRS in 2005. The second case is still pending after 10 years in which he owes just over $1 BILLION in back taxes. Both of these cases are well-documented and you can satisfy yourself simply by using Google to inquire as to the voracity of these assertions. Also note the timeframes of 14-years and 10+-years; not exactly a haphazard hissy fit. While you’re at it, you might also ask yourself “why” Warren says one thing in public discourse while he practices the exact opposite in his business and personal life. Is not that the definition of hypocrite?"

Read more: 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 02:50 | 2975343 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

If Berkshire Hathaway actually did NOT pursue every legal tax loophole, Mr. Buffet would be civilly (and probably criminally!) liable for neglecting his fiduciary duties.  Since corporations are "persons," perhaps he should let Berkshire speak for itself...

This is just a load of "political" eyewash in support of the Obamatron!

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:29 | 2973356 Crimedog
Crimedog's picture

I agree with the general theme of the article that these increased taxes on the wealthy will really do nothing to actually impact the debt, which is massive in comparison.  However, if a slight increase on the tax rate for the wealthy is needed in order to get a deal done, than I am all for it.  Give the Democrats their carrot so that we can just end this fiscal cliff debate and get a deal done that cuts spedning across the board.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:42 | 2973419 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

I could agree if a 15% compensation cut for all government employees was included to bring them closer to in line with private sector.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 16:54 | 2973875 HellFish
HellFish's picture

How about fire 50% and then cut the remaining 50% by 15%.  EPA, HUD and ED go to zero.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:42 | 2973423 pods
pods's picture

There is no resolution to this mess.

You have bought into the hype.  Like Flavor Flav said: "Don't believe the hype!"


Mon, 11/12/2012 - 16:09 | 2973741 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Cut taxes, raise taxes, it matters not. Spending is the issue and always has been. Tax cuts have typically raised revenues but spending never seems to retreat. Regardless of your position on politics or economy, compromise has been the weapon used to get us to this point. Compromise will take us off the edge. They pass laws and then set about figuring how to manipulate them to give the desired result, regardless of their stated intentions. Stop the damn spending and quit acting like there has to be some kind of deal that makes it all work. We don't want no stinking "deal".

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 16:44 | 2973828 Lore
Lore's picture



Tyler is trying to wake people up. Buffett and his pals are of a type for whom lying comes naturally, and their wealth is never at risk.

THE NUMBERS ARE LONG PAST THE POINT OF EVER ADDING UP. You might as well try to stop the wind by peeing against it.  The time for any 'deal' is long past.  There is not sufficient wealth in the nation to accommodate the parasite on its back.  The syndicate is monstrous.  Disaster is inevitable.  It's as plain as the nose on your face.  THE LAWS OF NATURE ARE GOING TO REASSERT.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:29 | 2973357 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

Start with the Congress.. One would get their dollars worth if a politician did their job for a buck.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:34 | 2973384 knukles
knukles's picture

How about all that "other" income them folks get that makes them mulitgazillionaire while in Congress...
Ain't the salaries!

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:40 | 2973413 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture



I like the idea of Congress living with what it inflicts on the rest of us so let's start with their cushy pensions and health plans they should have to get Social Security like the rest of us and Obamacare like the rest of us!

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 15:02 | 2973498 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

I'd like to see congress paid the average national minimum wage...after removing federal, state, county and city workers from the average.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 15:16 | 2973559 machineh
machineh's picture

If they offered a 'matching cut' -- where each dollar received at would subtract a dollar from Congressional pensions -- that fund would be oversubscribed faster than a Ron Paul money bomb.

Incentives, bItCHeZ!

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 17:25 | 2974000 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

Not sure why I typed 'minimum' but I meant the average national wage...etc.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:29 | 2973359 Vegamma
Vegamma's picture

The Romneys almost cut the deficit by more than these blowhards by not taking the full deductions they were entitled to in 2011. Forward!

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:32 | 2973362 goodrich4bk
goodrich4bk's picture

I just don't get the hoards of postings here opposing tax increases on the wealthy.  If it's one less dollar I have to pay, what's wrong with that?  It's not like we're talking about confiscatory levels --- 39.6% is much less than it was when we had similar debt after WW2.

And, incidentally, we have BOTH a revenue and spending problem. Revenue as a percentage of GDP is now lower than almost anytime in the last 50 years, while spending is at an all time high. 

Finally, which is the moral choice: raising taxes on those who benefited the most from the financialization of our economy, or letting them die and pass on their illusory gains tax free to the next generation while passing on the debt to the children of ordinary Americans,

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:37 | 2973401 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Many People are small Business people.  Obama care and higher Taxes could put them out of Business.  Not only the loss of the Business but all of the People employed by them.  Do not forget the Government also wants to lower deductions which can be taken, this will push many into a higher Tax Bracket.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:42 | 2973411 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

The publicized tax rate is meaningless.

The rich will simply offshore and lawyer their way down to 15% tax in reality.

Meanwhile, taxes will be raised for everyone else to be "fair".  The middle class will take it in the shorts again because they make enough to pay; and can't afford the lawyers, accountants, and offshore shell corporations to shelter income.

The lower classes will be paying the same or less because they hardly make anything.

The idea that raising rates = more revenue is like thinking if you raise prices at your store by 10% your amount of sales will stay the same.  DUH!  People buy less or go elsewhwere.  With taxation, people make less or hide more, and revenues do not increase.

No bailouts, no QE, end the FED, and restore the rule of law - much more important than some symbolic rate raise on the 1% that they can and will escape.  The masses are hungry for their necks, so they are making pleas like this as P.R. only.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 15:36 | 2973630 Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture


Mon, 11/12/2012 - 16:03 | 2973727 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Tax avoidance is pretty universal...  it isn't simply a phenomenon for the rich.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 16:46 | 2973850 Lore
Lore's picture

No. Most people try to follow the rules, as unmanageable as they can seem.  And it's surprising how many people overpay. Seriously.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 10:50 | 2975931 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Overpayment, in the aggregate, is largely a risk aversion issue rather than an "overpayment" issue per se.  So much of tax law and accounting is gray, that often times it's up to the filer how far he or she cares to push a particular issue/deduction/etc.  While technically it might be overpaying, it's also an issue of avoiding an audit, scrutiny, etc.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:43 | 2973422 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture


So if the government said your tax rate was going to be 39.6% for federal only, you'd stay here and build a business?

Not a moral choice.  It is worth a revolution.  Kinda like the first one we had when we were charged meaninless taxes merely for punitive purposes.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:44 | 2973431 Col_Sanders
Col_Sanders's picture

The one percent who benefitted the most will never pay the increased tax.

In fact, they stand to MAKE money in the deal.

That's why they're asking for it.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 01:04 | 2975207 Incubus
Incubus's picture

more like the .1 per cent.

More taxes > more money out of the hands of the lesser "richies" > more money for government spending > more money into your .1 hands because you own all the shit the government's going to spend it on.


theft theft theft theft theft

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:57 | 2973475 earnyermoney
earnyermoney's picture

We always have a spending problem. The Dems are greedy. They are going to get higher taxes and gutting of DOD. Now they want the Repubs to cave on across the board cuts.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:57 | 2973476 Catullus
Catullus's picture

Because you're not going to pay any less for the high income earners being taxed more. So if it's all the same to you, why do you fuvking care?

And here's a brain teaser for you and your blah blah financializtion nothingburger: wealthy people are wealthy because they've accumulated wealth over time. They needn't accumulate more to be wealthy or remain wealthy. So when you tax income, you don't necessarily tax wealth, you tax earnings.

Rich people do not give a fuck about income taxes. It is meaningless to them. They already have plenty of money. Taxing income just prevents anyone else from BECOMING rich.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 19:29 | 2974439 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

   ... wealthy people are wealthy because they've accumulated wealth over time.

You mean like when their dads died?

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 15:11 | 2973533 cxl9
cxl9's picture

I support taxes on no one and tax-avoidance by everyone, rich and poor, for the simple reason that every dollar of tax collected collected by the government is another dollar they have to harass, regulate, and bully the citizens. Government long ago ceased to provide any meaningful services; it is now simply in the business of expansion and self-perpetuation. I would much rather see a millionaire squirrel away his money in some offshore tax-shelter than give it to the government to build more drones, buy more ammunition, and hire more thugs.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 16:28 | 2973798 Quarky Gluon
Quarky Gluon's picture

So, you wouldn't call the federal freeway system a meaningful service? Not to mention all the federal dollars going to states to help build roads and bridges. The NOAA weather service seems rather helpful. Many businesses depend on the federal government for information on not just NOAA for the weather but the USDA for crop data also. That is just a few examples of how useful and meaningful our federal government can be when it quietly runs in the background trying to help us all enjoy a better quality of life.

Now I'm not saying that the feds never act as tyrannical thugs since they often are in certain areas, but I take a more pragmatic approach and give credit where credit is due.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 02:57 | 2975353 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Mmm, look at ALL the corn kernels in this pile of sh!t, dig in, folks -- dem's good eats!  Understand yet?

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 15:13 | 2973536 CommunityStandard
CommunityStandard's picture

I'm finding it rather interesting that your point isn't being debated on the basis that taxes are wrong, no matter who is getting taxed, so I'm going to do just that.  EDIT: cxl9 beat me to it :)

It is my opinion that taxes should exist only for basic functions: government administration and lawmaking, the justice system, education (yes, I fall into the category that a free country can't survive for long without an educated population), national security (homeland only), police and fire, and maybe a few science projects here and there.  That's really it.  There's no revenue problem when spending is kept to a minimum.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 20:07 | 2974535 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Have to keep in mind that the taxes for the roads, State Courts, education, police, Fire, etc. are paid for from State Taxes.  Not Federal Taxes.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 03:00 | 2975354 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Hmm, but WHO's gonna pay for Granpa's hip replacement or Granny's Hoverround™?

How about the anti-riot insurance cards, a.k.a. EBT?

You heartless wurm!

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 15:29 | 2973611 Abiotic Oil
Abiotic Oil's picture

Or we could just follow the Constitution as originally written and not have any income tax and force the to spend within its means.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 16:12 | 2973757 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Because it is a big fat lie! Revenue is off because of a poorly performing economy, not because the rates are too low. It always about how government needs more. How about lets figure out how much they really need. Thats an arguement worth having instead of constantly griping about who they are going to steal it from next.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 20:41 | 2974490 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Its not a taxing issue.

Its the spending stupid.Whatever they raise will be offset with

more spending,or in Newspeak; investment.Pork to you, and me.

They will spend $2.50 to get a return of a $1 and take those dollars

from someone who can a profit on them.Something Govt is incapable

of doing.


Tue, 11/13/2012 - 02:54 | 2975349 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Perhaps you should look up the definition(s) for "principle."

"If you DON'T stand for something, you'll fall for anything!"

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:31 | 2973366 percolator
percolator's picture

When is the grim reaper going to take out Warren "The Fascist" Buffett and his side kick Charlie "The Welfare Queen" Munger? 

These two are definitely past their expiration dates.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:46 | 2973439 pods
pods's picture

Cheney is too busy eating babies somewhere.


Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:32 | 2973368 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

Actually I find this petition more interesting.

"Peacefully grant the State of Florida to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government."

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:33 | 2973380 Vegamma
Vegamma's picture


Mon, 11/12/2012 - 15:06 | 2973507 a growing concern
a growing concern's picture

Sounds like a breakthrough anabolic steroid. You should trademark that quick.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 00:54 | 2975184 NeedtoSecede
NeedtoSecede's picture

+1 Flexit. I'm in for a little secession from this "fucking clown circus" that this nation has become (credit to pods for the descriptor).

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:36 | 2973390 knukles
knukles's picture

If you ever wanted to see something buried, ignored, you just arrived, big time Charley

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:43 | 2973424 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

I figured it more as an obtuse way to end up on a no fly list and getting fondled  by a Walmart trained TSA greeter.  But what do I know?

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 16:34 | 2973821 holdingontomypants
holdingontomypants's picture

A: No way in hell the federal government would ever allow any state to withdraw from the Union. Once your in the US you are in for life, for better or worse. Like a marriage.

B: To sucede from the Union you would need two-thirds vote by the citizens of that state to do it and with most states having half the voters in the democratic party of freebies again no way in hell it would ever happen.

C: The federal government would never allow it to happen and they would use the US Military to oust the currrently seated governor and disolve the state legislatures and place a caregiver federal governor in its place.

D: The federal government looks at itself as a sovereign nation with all the states as its territory and Obama as its king. It would never allow for any of its land holdings to be taken away from them, much less any of its income from the peasants be eliminated from their tax coffers.

E: Once a state joins the federal union it forever lost its individual identity and its rights.

F: You may renounce your US Citizenship but never can your state renounce its citizenship.

G: The list goen on and on why a state will never be allowed to peacefully leave the union. You are stuck for life with the federal government.

H: If you move to another country then you no longer have to live under this Kings rule. But he won't let you take all your money with you because he says it belongs to him and his followers.

I: Signed, President Barack Obama, King of the US. Ruler of you!!!

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:32 | 2973370 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

How did these dickwads ever get 1 million dollars if they can;t een figure out they are doing a direct flush into the meaningless void by giving it to the government.

Maybe they should start a company with that extra money and hire some people.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:32 | 2973371 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

They shoud Tax Stocks Owned 2% a year.  After all they tax Real Estate 2% a year thru Property Taxes to pay for State Governments.  Tax Stocks to pay for the Federal Government.

You would hear Buffet squeel like a stuck pig.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:38 | 2973406 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

No doubt! If youre hearing someone like Buffet saying he thinks he should pay more, he's definitely getting away free....put on a 2% stock holdings tax man you'd hear these phonies screaming!

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:46 | 2973442 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

The government should steal 2% of the public economy every year, on top of what they already take??

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:58 | 2973479 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

I am just looking for fairness.  I use Rental Real Estate for Income and return.  I get Taxed on the Value of that Real Estate every year.

Buffet and many others use Stocks for income and return.  Why should they not get taxed on their holdings every year?


Mon, 11/12/2012 - 16:58 | 2973890 pods
pods's picture

You have just illustrated legalized plunder.

This happens every day all over this nation (and world). A rule is put into effect harming some group for the benefit of another.

This is why we will never have a workable system within this style of government again (democratic republic, central bank, fractional reserve-legal tender currency).

It will just continue to be payed forward until it collapses.  Each group convincing some politician or bureaucrat to pass some law or rule that benefits them at the expense of another, less powerful group.

Burn the whole system down.  

If something was done to even the field in your eyes, it merely would perpetuate the system as it is.  So it might even it out for you, but would just perpetuate legalized plunder.
Not picking on you personally, your post just showed how this system protects itself.  One plundered group finds a way to plunder another, and so on a so forth.

I am with Law of Physics, BTFD (Burn The Fucker Down) and let's see where everyone stands on the value of their labor.



Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:50 | 2973458 moondog
moondog's picture

Property taxes...the modern serfdom...NY state loves their property taxes...

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 15:20 | 2973574 machineh
machineh's picture

... until they climb off the gerbil wheel, old, tired and grey, and head for Florida or Tennessee.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 16:30 | 2973808 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

You solve that by pumping the housing markets in those areas most likely to be populated by retirees.  Head them off at the pass!

You see, fiat currency only remains in control if people use it in the way that the declarers of the fiat have preordained.  If they go off the reservation, if they profit when they were supposed to have lost, or lose when they were supposed to have profited, there is a loss of control.  Thus the endless plugging.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 23:03 | 2974987 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I have a client who has a true white collar slave job, who just purchased a new and quite shittily constructed McMansion for $440,000, and brags about how he got such an amazing deal and locked in at a historic low mortgage rate.

I am happy for him being happy, but have to restrain myself from mentioning that his property taxes on this asset (actually, liability) alone amount to $12,000+ USD per year. Once one adds in water, heat, electricity and other utilities and maintenance required of a shoddily built 4000 square foot house, tack another $700 per month on.

So, without even including the amortized mortgage payments, that's $1,700 per month for just property taxes and utilities, or $20,400 per year, or measured in real dollars, $576,000 over 30 years; hell, let's assume he moves 8.7 years from now, which was the average as of 2007-- that's still $177,480 for just property taxes and utilities, not including the actual payments on the mortgage or surprise repairs/maintenance.

Include the $26,356 per year he's paying on the mortgage, and over that 8.7 years, he'll be paying $410,000 in rent-to-own payments, so hopefully the economy will become very robust very quickly in order for him to see the appreciation to break even, let alone not lose his ass.

But wealthy people or wanna-be-wealthy are apparently buying coastal properties and immediately taking out 120% mortgages on those properties lately (reported just today), so it must be all good, as The Bernank has apparently fixed everything.





Tue, 11/13/2012 - 03:06 | 2975359 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Bet you're real popular at cocktail parties...

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 17:57 | 2975417 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Well, to be honest, I am not unpopular. These are things I think, but luckily have the self-discipline to rarely speak during what are supposed to be joyous, festive events.

I have this bad habit of... critical thinking, though.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 19:06 | 2974356 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Where do you get RE @ 2% ?  Where I live due to corporate litigating their ad valorum, the sheeple just voted on a SQ to UP our RE taxes from 5% to 8%. Not only that, the monetization of water is on it's way. 

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 20:18 | 2974556 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

I am not talking about Property Tax Increase.  I am talking about the Tax Rate per 100 on the value of your Property.  In Baltimore City it is 2.18% per year on assessed valuation.  Probably higher than New York.  But, we do have a very progressive Governor who is looking at the Presidency.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:32 | 2973373 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

Any chance to get oxymoron, Ms Quick, to interview Buffett to ask him? Fine, let her sit on his lap...they both could use a thrill.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:32 | 2973374 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

The poor dears, having to live on $5 million instead of $6 million.

If these jackasses really believed what they are saying they would give everything to the government to pay down the debt, live in HUD housing, and work as part-time greeters at WalMart.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:44 | 2973394 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

BARTENDER! I'll have what Ebworthen here, is drinking... A double!

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:44 | 2973428 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture



Hypocrites that's what they are and Obama is a major hypocrite himself his brother lives in a friggin hut and his illegal alien aunt in housing that middle class taxpayer's subsidize how about he steps up to the plate and leads by example and gives his millions to the deficit and the poor!

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 15:01 | 2973494 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

If not the poor why does Obama not financially help his Illegal Alien Aunt and his Brother that lives in a Hut.  He certainly has the Money.

He wants everyone elses Money to pay for the Poor but will not use even one penny of his Money to help his own Family.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:33 | 2973377 Gadocat99
Gadocat99's picture

Looks like the average contribution amount was that needed to say, "I paid my share."  Helps them sleep better at night.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:34 | 2973382 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

That should be enough for a spare tire on the latest generation of US fighter jets.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:37 | 2973398 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

I would not donate a cent to the "USA" until I knew what types of re-investment they would make with my money.  Negative IRR projects (like Tyler mentions) and charity handouts do not add up to a viable re-investment.  The problem is  the people running the company called the "USA" have no convincing re-investment plans to entice investment capital. 

I am sure W Buffet must have a split personality: on the one hand, the Coke-drinking, hotdog-eating, All-American, on the other, the realist-skeptic who sees through the poor investment the USA represents in actual terms.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 15:24 | 2973593 machineh
machineh's picture

If it the donated funds were going toward a gallows on the west steps of the Capitol, I'd second-mortgage the house to contribute!

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 03:09 | 2975362 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Understand this:  any such tax would go towards corporate welfare payments -- now you know why Billionaires are in favor of it.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:37 | 2973399 The Bernank
The Bernank's picture

The US debt is transitory and managable.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 15:10 | 2973524 a growing concern
a growing concern's picture

It's transitory alright. It's on a Viagra-fueled upward spike, right up until it isn't. Then it'll be nicely flatlined and shit will get real.

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:38 | 2973404 Majere
Majere's picture

Simple math to fix this.  Tax kickers to everyone totally 32 Trillion, but tax it at 50%.  Pat off the 16T and we are golden.  Fed puts the "new" 16T on their books...because you know....we can't see them anyway. 

/sarc off


Why pay a voluntary tax when they are good at taking what they want anyway.


Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:40 | 2973412 knukles
knukles's picture

I don't care what or how people argue about what the problem is, how much more needs be taxed to help out the deficit, etc.

The simple fact is the Federaliwes are fat, bloated, wasteful and cannot even do the jobs intended, the whole fucking system needs to be redone and no more money should be given until they can figure out how to live with what they have.

They must clean house before anything else is even debated.

The Goddamned system is broken and feeding it anything merely persists with the disease.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 03:11 | 2975365 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Tell me again:  How is re-electing all those incumbents is gonna help fix this?

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:40 | 2973415 Blankenstein
Blankenstein's picture

Maybe Buffett just wants to make sure there is enough taxpayer money available so he can be bailed out again when the economy heads south. 

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:44 | 2973430 stant
stant's picture

real americans will take thier ball and go play somewhere else, there is a south america

Mon, 11/12/2012 - 14:45 | 2973432 Donlast
Donlast's picture

Stick it to this pompous sanctimonious a---hole.  It is pity they cannot bury him up to his neck in Omaha.  I would be quite happy to throw the first brick. 

To think I once had a lovely penfriend in Omaha in my teeens and it has come to this...

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