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What Do JCP's Bondholders Know That Shareholders Don't?
With JCP's delayed reaction plunge-tastic drop today, it seems shareholders are waking up to the cash-burn and worries implied by the credit market...
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Bondholders know this Christmas aint last Christmas.
Stockholders don't know what's in the box.
http://www.fanpop.com/spots/saturday-night-live/videos/2519915/title/snl...
You aint kidding. Wait for Black Friday number to come out.
19 dead sales down 9% deaths up 40%.
When does Icahn take a 10% stake in JCP?
Tim Geitner is going to be the head of their tax division!
maybe JCP should alienate more fly-over-country americans by running more ads with Ellen the Dyke and appealing to the .5% of this country that is gay. Cramer says its a BUY!
When does Ackman sell his entire JCP stake? That is the only question my mind. Does Ackman have a stop limit approach or something at least?
Rise above it buddy. We get no where engaging in their rhetoric.
We're all faggots now. Dumb-shit faggots will save the economy. Do these skinny jeans make my asshole look like lunch?
All fags all the time, anything less is a hate crime!
The fuse is lit? Look at the USD/JPY pair.
Yes, it is acting very, very strange...almost what was once considered, "normal." The AUDUSD pair is acting as a buffer, though, and is still shooting for the 1.05-level but I don't think it will get there.
:D
Addo: It's not there yet but it is slowly turning back into Dr. Jekyll...
funning how things start acting "normal" when there is no tsy market shenanigans
That wasn't the case last week when the auction of the 10s and 30s was making my head squirm. We'll see if it sticks. If it does, long U/J could be a hella trade for a long time.
well the alternative lifestyle campaign was a complete failure...go figure. all the chiefs walk way with million dollar bonuses while the worker bee colony collapses. oh, wait.....where is mittens for the stick save?
JCP is losing money. I work for a vendor; I know.
What, they're bouncing checks or always "at lunch" when you come to get paid?
slow pay? no pay? spill it!
shizzmoney that is a great way to track the health of companies. my son in law works for a forklift company and he can tell me which of his companies are on the ropes thru various phases of the cycle. i'll have to ask him about the jcp boys.
I dunno if checks are bouncing, but I do know our orders to them are waning......and I had to set up 20+ items for them that they eventually ended up not buying, wasting my time.
It's not as visible, like Sears/Kmart, closing stores left and right......but JCP being around by 2013-2014 will be a surprise.
Hell, I thought they went out of business years ago.
Montgomery Ward will buy them out...
Quick sell them to Ben for par.
JC will soon be worth pennies...long tungsten
What's next? SHLD?
lol
what is up with VIX?
Like everything else in this market it's broken.
Have you tried glitter? I hear glitter fixes everything.
but but but JCP is a real estate play like sears holding NO? oh current stock holders get bk'd first. then to the moon.
no moral compass from the bond market today [sarc]
The question is, do these lines on the graph necessarily have to return to the same level any time soon?
Man fuck JC Penney...
look what this bitch ass bankers did to Silver...
notice the London open
then the Comex open....
then the price going into the London close....
every day for the last almost 3 years the same pattern....
there aint no coincidences....
FUCK YOU BERNANKE & ALL YOU BITCH ASS DEBT COUPON DOLLAR BANKERS....
http://www.kitco.com/charts/livesilver.html
the stock is a zero. don't worry about johnson, he got plenty.
Moody to maintain AAA credit of USA even if fiscal cliff happens!!
Moody's says would maintain US rating, outlook in event of fiscal cliff, await further cues
Says:
- US delaying budget action until 2013 looks increasingly likely.
- US election result gives little clarity on fiscal outlook.
- US political landscape remains highly polarized and unpredictable.
- Divided US popular vote provides fertile ground for political posturing.
Update details:
- The US sovereign rating will be closely watched by investors as we had into year end and the potential fiscal cliff.
- These comments may ease some investors minds but the looming uncertainty about the near-term future for the US economy will likely provide headwinds for the next couple of weeks.
http://ransquawk.com/headlines/moody-s-says-would-maintain-us-rating-outlook-in-event-of-fiscal-cliff-await-further-cues-12-11-2012
This is what the bondholders know. They get a coupon payment yielding 7-9%. The stockholders get a piece of paper with cool graphic etching and no dividend.
Which would you rather have?
This is simply a symptom of what is to come.
The days of spending money on crap are over. They ain't coming back. There is not enough room for a half dozen department stores selling stuff people don't want to buy.
You will have low end (Walmart, Target,$ stores) and a couple high end (Macy's) and that is it.
Not enough to go around and JCP your number is up.
Depressions have a way of thinning the herd.
pods
Went with the wife to the local mall and even though every fucking store was decked out in the Christmas blitz (hell, Santa "arrived" at the mall for the season that afternoon, Saturday 11/10), trees, music, etc. a full 2 weeks prior to Thansgiving, the place did not seem busy at all, even for a Saturday! (The annoited day of shopping!)
Sears, Macy's Bon Ton, Lord & Taylors, Burlington, JC Penny's - every fucking one of them balls to the wall Christmas shit.
These fuckers already reek of desperation and it's two weeks prior to Thanksgiving.
Oh yea, there were only a couple kids waiting for Santa's "arrival" (and availability for $19.99 pictures with the little ones)
We had a lady from the local food shelter speak at our church last week and food is a little low. Of course donations are great because then they can just buy the things that run low... but, "Of course ffod prices have really gone up and we can only get about half of what we used too."
Nice.
No one saw it coming.
Time for TARP 2 to bailout bank payroll cause God's workers can't.
Santa is only handing out iPad minis and Amazon Wine for Christmas this year. Department Stores just got to get used to being downstream now.
did you mean "depressions used to have away of thinning the herd"? cuz free money saves everybody now.
My 32 year old wife used to shop for everything at JC Penney. Now she says they suck and all of the clothes are ugly. JCP is trying to go after the tweener crowd and is getting killed.
The Applerific catalog is a joke, I guess JCP doesn't think white people shop anymore.
JCP is doomed like fortunoff. They need high end to make it in malls. Someone get Bain capital in there to "rescue" them. And by rescue i mean charge them insane management fees, fire everyone, liquidate, and close them down.
JCP used to be a decent place to shop, or browse and carried some pretty good sales and clearance. Trying to "re-educate" the shoppers to something different doesn't work with brick and mortar (might work for all those IPADS people are eating and standing in line for).
Too many designer botiques chasing too few middle class dollars and the middle class wanna-be's are too busy trying to put gas in the tank and food on the table. Levi's can be bought anywhere, same with some of the other brands that JCP carries. Fashion is no longer the end-all and be-all for shoppers on a tight budget and poor prospects of improvement (more likelihood of headed the other direction)
I still like JCP, but their "new direction" isn't doing it. Gonna make a mighty big hole in the mall when they fold and not sure they are going to be able to save it at this point.
Yeah I have to agree they tried to whore themselves up and be trendy. Someone needed to tell them, "you are not, will not, and can never be "cool", but people will still buy your shit."
Speaking of which I need to replenish. Their Stafford Trunk boxer briefs are fantastic. They give just the right amount of hug.
Surprised JC Penney does not simply nickname their individual stores, depending on location:
JC Comet
JC Homey
JC FCK
JC JC
JC ECB
JV Metrosexual
That is one of the things I would propose.
"Penney" sounds cheap.
why shop at JCP when you can wait and buy all of their unsold inventory at Costco on the cheap?
I hate to see JCP go away to be honest. The apple exec tried to turn it into Wal mart to be honest. That was never JCP's market. I no longer shop there! Hhe exec left with a huge bonus for basically screwing JCP and now I do nto know if it can recover. I hope they do.
One commenter hit the nail on the head. They are marketing trendy hip clothing for the youngsters. That was not JCP's primary customer base.
Not too suprised by this development. Starting shorting this one synthetically via puts when it was about $38 and have been rolling down and out in duration ever since. The other one to go to zero is SHLD, but haven't been having much luck with this one or with my NFLX put spreads lately as they're both stuck in a range. But you have to be patient with these money losing entities-always buy lots of duration (3-6 months out). Once the panic begins (like with GRPN and ZNGA) they drop like a rock-but I can recall losing quite a bit on my shorts on these ones until suddenly reality set in. Fear is always stornger than greed! And how long can TSLA hold on-even with ObamaLoans (its been in the 28-32 range for almost 2 years (TESLA "investors" are really believers just like AGW believers/suckers)?
The CEO is a great magician. He made sales, customers, dividends and profits all disappear.
It's in a death spiral. Howard Davidowitz was the only analyst who saw this disaster in the making from the beginning. Check out his videos on youtube. Howard's great.
Looks like their all electronic cash purchase scheme wasn't such a good idea.
I used to work for JCP as an outside services vendor. The whole problem is incompetent top management - always was. Which means the Board of Directors is also incompetent. The rank & file folks were some of the nicest, hardest-working, smartest people I've ever met - they knew their business and they knew their customers - but every day of their lives was made miserable by the idiots at the top.
I read a little blub in the sunday paper and thought
Wow JCP your going down.
It read like Iceberg ahead full steam ahead.
How sad. I gotta go find it and post it.
Reminds me of do the same thing get the same results.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/money/55245320-79/penney-pricing-stores-com...
Long JCP CDS has been a money-losing trade for the bulk of 2012. The illiquid CDS market (relative to equity) may be right in the long run, but we'll be dead or insolvent by then.