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Degrees For Dollars: Students Petition Uncle Sam To Refund Student Loans For Worthless Diplomas

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Student debt has seemingly been the transmission channel of choice for pumping credit into the US economy for the last few years as the government addition of $1 trillion has done nothing but leave those under-55 with fewer and fewer jobs (especially above-minimum-wage jobs) while saddled with non-extinguishable debt. Of course, this 'pump' of credit has had the usual unintended 'inflationary' consequence of raising tuition prices (which as we noted this morning was the main driver of inflation in the UK overnight). So what would be fair? Cue: A Petition to "Provide University graduates the ability to trade their Diplomas back for 100% tuition refunds" The hope-driven (or hopelessness) push into higher education (and implicitly higher debt), in a nation where the marginal benefit of Calculus 101 over a strong right 'burger-flipping / coffee-machine-pressing' wrist is falling by the day, seems to warrant further societal protection. All that's needed is 25,000 signatures to move this forward.

We petition the obama administration to:

Provide University graduates ability to trade their diplomas back for 100% tuition refunds.

 

Because of the inability of recent college graduates to find gainful employment in order to repay their college debt, and since this college debt cannot be eliminated in bankruptcy, and most of the recent additions to the job market have been in service related industries, the Obama administration should take up the cause of reducing college debt and hold those accountable responsible.

 

In the name of Consumer Protection, recent college graduates should have the ability to return the diploma and not make any reference to receiving education from the college in exchange for a 100% refund of college tuition. This may be extended with a graduated (ha, get it?) reduction for the last four years, with a red line at January 20, 2008.

 

Click image for a link to the White House petition site...

 


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Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:08 | Link to Comment Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

I don't blame them, however I offer a full refund back to about the year 1800

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:08 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Good thing Johnny has a good education in piano wire weaving.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:13 | Link to Comment Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Underwater basket weaving doesn't pay.

Whocouldhavenode.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:14 | Link to Comment economics9698
economics9698's picture

Education is 50% useless propaganda.  If these kids were taught something of value, like how the economy operates, and not bull shit propaganda designed to get them to be useless cheerleaders for the state, than maybe they would be employable.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:19 | Link to Comment economics9698
economics9698's picture

My kid got a 69% haircut on his student loan.  He did learn something in college.  Bankers hate default.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:37 | Link to Comment MillionDollarBogus_
MillionDollarBogus_'s picture

I weigh 400 lbs.

I demand that the government pay to have all the excess fat removed from my body and pay for a stomache staple procedure.

In exchange I will deny that I gorge on fast food, drink big gulps and get no exercise. 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:42 | Link to Comment Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture

"Reality is not optional"

-Thomas Sowell

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:04 | Link to Comment MillionDollarBogus_
MillionDollarBogus_'s picture

David McCullough on 60 Minutes last Sunday;

"...I ran into some students on university campuses who were bright and attractive and likeable. And I was just stunned by how much they didn’t know. One young woman at a university in the Midwest came up to me after one of my talks and said that until she heard me speak that morning she’d never understood that the original 13 colonies were all on the East Coast. And I thought, “What are we doing that’s so wrong, so pathetic?” I tried it again at several other places, colleges and universities, same thing. Now, it’s not their fault. It’s our fault. And when I say our fault I don’t mean just the teachers. I mean the parents and grandparents. We have to take part..."

Right....

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 14:00 | Link to Comment crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

I thought there were like 57 original colony thingies or whatever.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 18:34 | Link to Comment Cortez the Killer
Cortez the Killer's picture

if they return the diplomas they keep the knowledge.

the only fair trade would be to have their brains removed, then processed into food to serve to EBT card holders.

Even then, their brains are of such little value, a refund of tuition for more than a single GE class would be overpaying by the govt.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:02 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Memorizing the phone book will fill yer head with facts, but useless facts nevertheless.  If I were to purchase a vehicle, I would expect it to get me from point A to point B, but what the universities are supplying is a vehicle with the engine completely disassembled, and it's up to you to figure out how to put it together yourself, with no instruction manual.  Loads of useless courses to be found in just about every degree.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 04:36 | Link to Comment Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Fuck that. I didn't do a University course, so would you mind reimbursing me a check for the cost of a Phd in thermo-nuclear rocket science please, for the course I didn't waste my time and everybody else's money studying for?

Parasites, fucking parasites. You took the money now pay the fucking bill. If you can't find a job that's just tough. Do what everybody else does that needs money and can't find work. Go and use your highly educated arse to create one...

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 18:45 | Link to Comment Oleander
Oleander's picture

Homeschool your kids if you can. Its great quality time. You must be proactive in their education if you want them to be able to think. My kid knows the truth about the Pilgrims and the Indians. There are adults who actually think the cozy traditional theme of Thanksgiving is real. 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:44 | Link to Comment TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

At least some of these kids are smart enough to realize that the lefty twaddle they were taught is completely useless in the real world.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:55 | Link to Comment Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

And when the scales fall from their eyes and they realize they have been sucked in by a load of lefty twaddle, they immediately appeal to the President for a bailout.

They may still have a ways to go.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 14:10 | Link to Comment Captain Kink
Captain Kink's picture

...the Obama administration should take up the cause of reducing college debt and hold those accountable responsible.

The government, in it's infinite wisdom, is responsible.  Cheap money available for higher education has enabled so many to go to college that had no business going.  Now we suffer a lack of skilled labor--machinists, plumbers, welders, pole dancers, etc.--and must endure the whining of children with useless degrees who feel no responsibility for their own choices.  Just as with the subsidization of home purchases for those who had no business buying homes, when government gets involved, the market effects HAVE CONSEQUENCES.

 

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 11:30 | Link to Comment holdingontomypants
holdingontomypants's picture

You expect college kids to take up a trade? Trades are manual work and these kids don't participate in that kind of program. Now if you said take up a trade in operating their keyboards, standing in protest lines, buying latest electronic gadgets, paying video games, ect, then you have found the right college kids. When I was growing up in the 70's they pushed trade schools so my brother became an electrician, I became a marine mechanic, my other brother became a an AC/Heating mechanic, and my sister went to college and got two degrees and is unemployed right now. My two brothers and I are still working but I am in a different employement field now as I opened a small business in 2005 that wasn't related to my training from trade school but instead related to my training in the military.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:07 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

They were sold a pig in a poke, and now everyone that's never (yeah, right!) been hoodwinked feels some sort of righteous indignation on their naive expectation that employment should be forthcoming.  Pay attention:  the debt is non-dischargeable!

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:34 | Link to Comment patb
patb's picture

what did he do?

 

 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:21 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Don't forget to add in 'punitive' damages for all the beer consumed in the Beer Pong tournaments... & while you're at it...

- face paint for sports games & rallies

- iPhones & videocameras for 'Girls Gone Wild' outtakes

- re-imbursement for unnecessary Spring Break expenditures on trips to Cancun

If I think of anything else I'll let you know...

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:28 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Isn't that why we all went to college?   The classes and diploma were a nice bonus.   I think you have your priorities screwed up, francis.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 16:35 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

If I had to do it all over again... about the mid-80's I'd have opened up a 'Hooter's' style bar in a college town, banged drunken co-ed hotties for 20 years, then cashed out on top & gone fishing...

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:08 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Proving only that American culture has taken numerous wrong turns.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:17 | Link to Comment Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

The sad part is that there is allot of third world students moving to the west to get in on it. They think its their way out of poverty

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:18 | Link to Comment Mrmojorisin515
Mrmojorisin515's picture

Its a paper aristocracy, and those third world students need to trade all the dollars they've accumulated for something.......

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:39 | Link to Comment Let them all fail
Let them all fail's picture

Well if you live in the third world I would imagine that getting your education here would be a pretty good proposition in comparison, cost aside...Plus, it CAN be a way out of poverty, the thing is that most students don't take it as seriously as they find out later they should have, classes are just the things that get in the way of drinking, etc. - Professors teach their classes but most classes are pretty useless for your job prospects...Looking back, my biz pogram needs to completely overhaul the classes it offers, it sucks.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:52 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

You live in the third world, you come here for an education, and you go right back to the third world afterward...  where, somehow, the education is respected and the number of college graduates is relatively small.  It also makes collection a bit tricky...  sounds like a good gameplan.  moral.hazard

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 14:42 | Link to Comment Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

Educations in the third world are cheaper

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:52 | Link to Comment TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Take Barry, for instance.....

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:47 | Link to Comment odatruf
odatruf's picture

Spitzer - the really sad part is that people will line up to sign this damn thing and will think it is a good, solid and fair idea.  When are we going to admit that these fellow citizens are dumb as a box of rocks and probably have no hope of redemption?  There, I said it.

 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:17 | Link to Comment Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Yes, no mention of the fact that it is impossible to default on student loans. "Good, solid and fair" mean absolutely jack shit when you're dealing with the government. Students weren't the ones begging for higher tuition rates and the larger loan principals they necessitated or for congress to make those loans a nondischargeable debt. That would be the private lenders, the Department of Education, the College Board, the college faculty and administrators, and politicians all of whom have profited far, far more than the students they defrauded.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 14:38 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

So there is no responsibility for knowing whether or not the debt you're racking up is dischargeable?  Is this not one of the most fundamental things to consider before going to college?

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 15:15 | Link to Comment Silver Bully
Silver Bully's picture

'So there is no responsibility for knowing whether or not the debt you're racking up is dischargeable?

If the girl and the 13 colonies wasn't an indicator, then what is? When the System teaches these kids, don't be surprised the System abuses them further. NO ONE is informing these children what kind of debt they are taking on. There is a legal disclaimer buried somewhere in the fine print of their loans. That's it. THAT is the problem.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 15:25 | Link to Comment odatruf
odatruf's picture

What is there to disclaim? "Hey this is unlike that other kind of debt where we are just kidding about wanting our money back"?

Don't borrow if you can't pay. Or if you do, understand the consequences. I am not one who holds a moral obligation to pay; they are contracts pure and simple. But I do hold that contracts should be upheld. And that whatever rights the lender has if the borrower defaults should be allowed.

 

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 00:46 | Link to Comment Ballin D
Ballin D's picture

If you posted this 5 years ago in response to some kid with a basketweaving major I would agree completely.

I applied to college in my senior year at the end of 2007 and worked my ass off to get a degree in finance + work exp/extracurriculars/leadership exp and passed the CFA L1 right after graduation and cannot find work.  Was I supposed to be able to predict the markets better than the banks could as a 17 year old high school student?  You are simply out of touch if you think kids cant pay their debt back because theyre stupid or lazy.  There are certainly some that dont think their actions through but you cannot assume it as a rule.

College has been pushed on students so strongly that it is hard to blame teenagers for taking the steps to succeed that all of their parents, teachers, and mentors encouraged them to take.  Kids are told to take loans because it will pay off.  That they will be 'failures' if they dont go to uni.  I worked in tech support during the school year and could potentially make 15,600/yr at 40 hrs a week 52 weeks a year.  How do you expect a kid to survive off that income and pay back $60,000 of debt?  And thats doing work that requires some level of skill. 

I'm not saying that we should simply wipe all student debt but you arent going to squeeze orange juice from a stone.  You cannot tell some kid to pay off that kind of debt when hes making your burger for minimum wage with a degree in finance.  Talk to the people that were of voting age, who were running companies/government, or who werent bothering to take the initiative to save when incomes were higher and costs were lower.  Or just retire or die and let us work.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 11:27 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

If you can do rudimentary math and have access to a phone or can somehow communicate with recent graduates, then there is no excuse.  You have to do your due diligence...  All you're telling us with this nonsense is that the nanny state let you down because you decided to outsource your critical thinking ability.  I agree.

If you do not have a job lined up BEFORE you go to college, then you don't have one after. 

Yes, you can tell people to repay their debts...  there are limits as to how much of one's pay can be garnished/confiscated...  there are also programs that eliminate your debt after you make what payments you can for a certain number of years...  at the end of the day, it would all work out of the banks weren't made whole regardless of the solvency of their debtors...  (can't get "orange juice from a stone").  While it may not be dischargeable, that doesn't mean that the banks actually get anything... 

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 20:06 | Link to Comment Ballin D
Ballin D's picture

I could have made my point better without sounding like such a whiny brat.  Of course Ive made the phone calls.  I have made the trip to my college every other week since Ive graduated.  Ive been in close touch with professors and the people running career services.  Ive met with alumni.  I did a lot of practice interviews in case that was the issue and was invited to follow up after all of them (most times on-site).  Every time Im told I need finance experience for a job (and a job for finance experience).  There are only a few jobs outside of predatory commission based positions and most of those are going to laid off bankers with a few years under their belts or the top students from top schools.  If they arent recruiting these top candidates, theyre looking for people with zero ambition who will be happy doing data entry for 30 years.  I apply for these roles but never hear back.

Ultimately, my personal experience is irrelevant but I thought I made it clear that there are people who have made good decisions that are just as fucked as those that made the bad decisions.  Asking teenagers to know exactly what they want to do for the rest of their lives and to have that job lined up four years in the future is about as ridiculous as people suggesting recent grads 'get a loan and start a business.'  Neither option exists in the real world unless youre a legacy at an ivy league or something similar.

You should have a realistic plan before you take loans and go to college and you should expect to pay back those loans.  Its not right to ever default on your commitments but what options are there in this environment?  Telling them to be more responsible only goes so far when they dont see anybody taking responsibility for the mess they were born into.  I dont believe there is a right answer but stubbornly saying 'just pay it back' when they cannot is definitely not it.  A side note here - I have no student debt.  My parents saved to pay for my education as I plan to do for my children in the future.  I feel strongly about the issue because Ive been in a position to watch the situation unfold as my peers are caught in the trap.  This is a very different beast than issues like credit card debt - otherwise responsible people are walking off the plank in droves because thats what everyone else has done before them.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 15:45 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Stop.right.there

So you're telling me that your counter-party, your lender, is supposed to be your fiduciary?  Really?  Again, this is learned helplessness...  the better question to ask is why these "kids" didn't inform themselves...  why they didn't seek the information themselves...  it's their neck on the line.

And are you trying to say that the bankruptcy code is written by the fine print of each contract?  That's fresh...  So kids don't know how to access a google search?

I know it's hard to use the R word, but try it...

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:17 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Your profession doesn't make it any easier to understand what kind of obligations your signature is getting you into.  One shouldn't have to hire a legalese translator to find out how much screwing over is going on in a given contract.  For example, who, besides the legal profession uses words like "whereunto" and "thereof" in normal conversation?

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:47 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

The mark of any good draftsman is that his intended meaning is universally understood.  Most drafters suck shit through a straw.  It's literally this game where idiots try and picture what they would say if they had a powdered wig on and were trying to impress other powdered wig folks.  Ridiculous.

However, this is purely academic in that people don't even bother to read the contracts...  if you ever have a question about a contract, then ask the draftsman...  and get the response in writing.  It may or may not technically make it into the contract, but practically speaking I'd hate to argue against it. 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 15:29 | Link to Comment odatruf
odatruf's picture

Of course students weren't begging for higher tuitions.  That's just stupid.  Do consumers beg for higher prices at McDonalds?  No, they either buy or don't buy based on what they have and want to spend - and based on how hungry they are.

These students who have taken on debt that they have no hope of paying off should go to state schools, start at a community college and then transfer or put of going a few years until they decide what path to take.

 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:20 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

[quote] These students who have taken on debt that they have no hope of paying off should go to state schools, start at a community college and then transfer or put of going a few years until they decide what path to take. [/quote]

Objection!  You've assumed facts not in evidence.  If young adults possessed such intelligence to begin with, we wouldn't be in this mess!

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 18:08 | Link to Comment Tedster
Tedster's picture

Please recall just exactly why Student loans became "non-dischargeable" in the first place - the practice itself had become a racket, with (get this) courses at some schools devoted specifically on how to stiff the gubbmint or lender and get away with it.

Very popular with those seeking employment in Law, as models of moral integrity and probity, don't ya know.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:18 | Link to Comment alangreedspank
alangreedspank's picture

They come here for IT, engineer and other wise science degrees. Not art, Mongolian 14th century women studies or social worker degrees.

 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:28 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Gasp, the Mongols had women in the 14th century?  Ya learn something new on this site every day.

I blame the Govt for:

1. Throwing munny at the universities (which is not a Constitutional requirement).

2. Changing the bankruptcy code, when what they should have done is require the Universities to eliminate bullsh!t study courses.

I blame the Universities for:

1. Creating such virtually useless courses of study.

2. Lowering their own standards via grade inflation.

3. Cowtowing to Govt mandates in the name of "affirmative action."

I blame parents for:

1. Allowing their children to pursue such idiotic courses.

2. Not educating their children about the consequences of signing contracts they don't understand.

I blame the children for:

1. Thinking that a college degree is the pathway to easy munny.

2. Not insisting on receiving a quality education.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:18 | Link to Comment crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

Education is 50% propaganda, 50% useless information and 50% partying.

"When I look back on all the crap I learned in high school, it's a wonder I can think at all."

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:21 | Link to Comment economics9698
economics9698's picture

Propaganda works best when it’s a mix of truth and lies.   

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:21 | Link to Comment ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

"Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school."      -    Albert Einstein

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:16 | Link to Comment TN Jed
TN Jed's picture

Yeah I was thinking any education which can be returned was never an education.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:26 | Link to Comment AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

Dats really interesting percentages.

You're not looking for a bailout are you?

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:31 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

I would settle for teaching them reading and math. Let's start with the basics first.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:52 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

actually, that's the first 2 years of college...  because they never learned to do it through high school...

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:35 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

There just ain't enough time, what with learning all about Eco-terrorism, how to deal with bullying (yeah, right!), reproductive theory, acceptance of alternative lifestyles...I'm sure that underwater basketweaving is in there somewhere...Thanks Progressive/Socialists, we just never knew how diverse the World really was until you came along!

Check out: "Some Lessons from the Underground History of American Education" by John Taylor Gatto, found in "Everything You Know is Wrong", ISBN 978-1-56731-637-7, pgs 274-287

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:35 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

There just ain't enough time, what with learning all about Eco-terrorism, how to deal with bullying (yeah, right!), reproductive theory, acceptance of alternative lifestyles...I'm sure that underwater basketweaving is in there somewhere...Thanks Progressive/Socialists, we just never knew how diverse the World really was until you came along!

Check out: "Some Lessons from the Underground History of American Education" by John Taylor Gatto, found in "Everything You Know is Wrong", ISBN 978-1-56731-637-7, pgs 274-287

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:25 | Link to Comment Itch
Itch's picture

That 4 year course in medieval dance routines will help out too i suppose. I seen him groovin with his lute the other night, remarkable.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:57 | Link to Comment uno
uno's picture

my favorite is the girls/women who get a degree, in debt (credit cards, student loans), then look for a sucker (husband) so they can become a housewife (i.e. retire)

Aside from this rant, shouldn't they have petitioned BEFORE the election, as least O's teleprompter would have paid them lip service

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:11 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

How cute, the little munchkins want a do-over on their poor investment decisions... yet they simultaneously want to be respected as adults...

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:15 | Link to Comment economics9698
economics9698's picture

I worked my way through college and grad school.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:23 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

You're the exception and not the rule. For every one of you there are 10 others who don't. Some of them think they do because they work a few hours for some spending money, but that is their delusional thinking.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:25 | Link to Comment dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

For what? An economics degree? Big whoop...

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:28 | Link to Comment djsmps
djsmps's picture

I worked my through college as well, but no grad school. I started working at 15.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:18 | Link to Comment Strider52
Strider52's picture

I couldn't afford college. I went to the local college bookstore and stole (no money) their best textbooks on computers and electronics. Now I design and program security / access controllers for colleges and universities.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:36 | Link to Comment patb
patb's picture

why didn't you go to the college library, and read these textbooks.

 

When i was an Undergrad, i couldn't afford some textbooks so i just read them in the reference room

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:54 | Link to Comment swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

So did I.  And I left college shy of a diploma, because I was worried about paying back the astronomical debt I had racked up.  Of course, this was 1985.  And the amount of debt I was so worried about was $3,500.  But still.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:22 | Link to Comment alangreedspank
alangreedspank's picture

I did not. But having responsible parents, I studied to be become an electrician then ended in IT. Have no debt and earn my income in the private sector (yes, I feed the government).

If someone had to pay high of a price to get an art degree, they'd think twice

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 00:15 | Link to Comment Ballin D
Ballin D's picture

"I worked my way through college and grad school."

 

This is meaningless without mentioning which year.  With gov't sponsored education and housing inflation you cant really compare doing this in 2012 to doing it in 2007 and odds are you graduated a long time before that.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:24 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Exactly.  I know I keep harping on this, but the country will never move forward with anything until there is some acceptance of self responsibility.  Whether it's buying a house on credit, going to college on credit, or getting the latest igadget on credit in lieu of paying the electric bill, there is no personal accountability whatsoever.  It's always some external force, outside of their control, causing ALL of their problems...  forget rudimentary math...  forget resource constraints...  forget their own stupidity...  forget all those student loans that went to beer, pizza, videogames, and attempts to score poon...  forget all of the other people who avoided the whole mess because they actually did their homework first.

The better argument is simply, how do you propose to allow this generation to actually participate in american society proper?  How are you going to fix the blatant age discrimination in place caused by, among other things, retirees receiving supplemental income and going back to work (much the same as the "illegal" work model of getting on the dole and then doing cash work on the side).

If you start out asking for a free lunch, then your pleas are likely to fall on deaf ears...  especially from the people who had the opportunity to go to college, but decided not to because it didn't make financial sense...  and have been working for the last half a dozen years in the real world... 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:32 | Link to Comment Mrmojorisin515
Mrmojorisin515's picture

I agree with you, but what about the parents that were so absorbed in their jobs that they failed to properly educated the kids?  Heck they themselves have been conned into 401ks and further centralization of industry and work into corporations.  This is not the problem, or acceptance of any single generation.  This con has been going on for sometime and its time that everyone realize that.  Stop blaming and pointing fingers except where the blame is justified.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:00 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Yes...  the parents who expected someone else to educate and parent their kids (e.g., school, eletronic babysitters, etc.)...  so?

You're unnecessarily expanding the issue.  There is much culpability to go around...  hell, if you want to back it up far enough, let's get mad at the process that created us to inherently desire credit....  that bastard!  I agree there is culpability to go around, but let's stay on topic.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:13 | Link to Comment Mrmojorisin515
Mrmojorisin515's picture

look, don't make me snap into a slimjim.  Its obvious that if you offer people something that will make their lives easier in any way shape or form, they will take it.  Now if we are going to live in a system that should put responsibility with those who "know" better, should the buck stop with them?  This whole financial crisis is only about power and power alone macho man.  We can ring our hands and cry about this and that until the cows come home, but it won't make a difference.  IF we are going to have any say or regain some form of power from those that now hold it, we must not nitpick about this and that and look beyond it.  Yes these people made a mistake, but so have many others, no one is blameless

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:49 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

If it's that obvious and simple, then why can't anyone seem to accept responsibility and refuse the free lunch.  The power comes from not being a dependent on the state...  this is exactly the problem the students face...  they're begging the system (that is designed to steal their power and future) to give them power and a future...  see where this might not work out?  If they were actually enterprising, they would simply flip the bird and refuse to pay...  a petition to say that they refuse to pay rather than a plea for a free lunch.

Of course, there still wouldn't be an admission of wrong doing...  of fault.  This is also necessary to ensure that the cycle is broken...  that the same idiocy is not passed down to children or to others in society.  Without this acknowledgment, even if the students were placated and their tuitions received, they would be right back in the same boat needing another bailout tomorrow.  Accept responsibility, move on.  When enough people do it, moral hazard will be eliminated...  just watch.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 14:03 | Link to Comment Mrmojorisin515
Mrmojorisin515's picture

i think you and i agree on just about everything, except i think when things break down these people will be used against you by those in power.  These people will do what they are told, so when things get worse and machoman is labeled a "terrorist" those useful idiots will be at your door.  So i say try to educate them, because they outnumber us in droves.  Yes it was stupid for them to think an education in basket weaving was a golden ticket, lets move on and make sure the tactic of divide and conquer doesn't win.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 14:34 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Of course they will be...  this is the inevitable conclusion of moral decay.  It is the concept of moral convenience.  "Teaching" people does nothing if they are paid or otherwise incentivized to ignore your teachings.  I cannot offer them an endless entitlement spigot, therefor, my opinion is immaterial.  This is why they will show up on my door regardless.

"Teaching" in this sense only works after the spigot has been turned off...  then it's a race to fill the power vacuum.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 15:03 | Link to Comment Mrmojorisin515
Mrmojorisin515's picture

touche, but i still try. and getting angry at them only reduces my enjoyment of life at this point.  We are all on one road, many branches of possible scenarios, but they all end at the same place.

But at the same time, the company i work for sent out an email coyfully suggesting its employees vote for Romney.  Big Biz is just as guilty as government, this is a lose lose.  So i still feel its not really in anyones best interest to pick one side over the other.  We've got us a mexican standoff here

 

also i found some of the comments on this article to be really well thought out and written

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/07/the-libor-scandal-and-capitalisms-moral-decay/259819/

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:25 | Link to Comment alangreedspank
alangreedspank's picture

If you're going to be so absorbed by your work, you know it and it's your duty to not have kids.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 16:15 | Link to Comment northerngirl
northerngirl's picture

You are correct!  This is the result of letting the government further and further into our lives for many generations.  Until we become a society of producers and get rid of the looters nothing will change.  In the case of education there have been many looting for too long.  Usually I would not be comfortable with such a proposal, but in this case let the graduates have their money back and the government can collect from the colleges that produced the graduates.  While this would not fix the problem with education, but could be a step in the right direction?  Who knows everything is upside down in our society anyways, so why not a money back guarantee on education?

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:35 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

The problem is that the big boys are the Kings of not taking personal responsibility.    Good luck convincing some guy who works at Starbucks and can't find a better job that he should take "personal responsibility" and live within his means when he sees that John Corzine can "tap" a couple billion of customer funds that don't belong to him without consequences.  We have become a society where anything goes for the rich, so it is no wonder that the poor and middle class are saying "me too."

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:50 | Link to Comment odatruf
odatruf's picture

LTER - dead on balls accurate. It's a wonder that such grifting hasn't become more mainstream.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:30 | Link to Comment alangreedspank
alangreedspank's picture

Sorry, but that view is SUPER mainsteam. 'The rich mooch so I'll mooch'. I keep reading and hearing this. Right or wrong, it IS mainstream.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:50 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Aside from the logical fallacy, two wrongs make a right...

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:42 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Oh, there's much more than two wrongs going on right now...

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 15:33 | Link to Comment odatruf
odatruf's picture

Maybe people do mooch and grift from the government or even big companies. I just don't see it in my day to day dealings in my community as a small business owner.  For the most part, the people I see want to do the right thing. That's not to say they don't want a deal; they do. And they push hard to get things they have to know we can't do. But they push and we say no, and they still make good.

At least here, anyway.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 18:21 | Link to Comment Tedster
Tedster's picture

Where have you been?? White collar crime in the form of embezzlement, typically small town financial clerks, is awfully common. The penalties are virtually nothing and they can stash away quite a haul. And these are the ones, increasingly rare, that can actually balance an account.

The level of outright stupidity these days is truly amazing.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:57 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

It is this moral hypocrisy that ensures the destruction of society.  I'll posit that the same people that refuse to take any personal responsibility will be the same people who make resistance for any positive change or, alternatively, fail to do anything productive.  The entire point is to not throw stones while living in a glass house... 

The charade gets to continue because both the welfare queens at the top and the bottom point the finger at each other and call the other illegitimate, ultimately justifying the free lunch as "payment for their inherent rights".  Apparently neither considered that they could both be illegitimate...  whocoodanode.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:59 | Link to Comment Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

Exactly. Awhile back (like probably over a year ago) there was a guy posting in everythread that we should max out our credit cards on physical gold, default, hide the gold, then either stick it to the cc company, or file BK and lie about owning any gold (since it's "hidden").

 

Little Johnny did it so it's OK for me too just 'cause little Johnny did it and got away with it. Great moral foundation for society.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:45 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

[quote] I'll posit that the same people that refuse to take any personal responsibility [emphasis, mine!] will be the same people who make resistance for any positive change or, alternatively, fail to do anything productive. [/quote]

The current re-election of the status quo proves you correct!  Rest yer case and get the jury to return a verdict...

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:28 | Link to Comment alangreedspank
alangreedspank's picture

You might have a hard time convincing him, but nonetheless, he should be doing the right thing no matter what everbody else does. You don't eat your vegetables instead of brownies only when everyone else eats vegetables. You eat them because you know it's the right thing to do.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:53 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I'm talking about what needs to be done for real world solutions (enforce rules for the top as a starting point), rather than what should be done if human beings were not human beings.   If we merely want to talk about what would be nice in a fantasy world, then I agree with your point expect to add that it would also be nice if people at the top would start doing the right thing on their own accord too.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 14:13 | Link to Comment alangreedspank
alangreedspank's picture

If "people" don't get their shit straight, then the "rich" won't either because the "rich" are from the same pool of "people": they're not from another dimension.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 14:46 | Link to Comment crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

It's a common strategy of the person who doesn't have an intelligent response to claim that he lives in the "real world" and that people who point our your fallacies are living in a "fantasy world."

To point out that a person should look inside himself and do what is right is not a "fantasy solution" -- it is basic human responsibility.  You insult every single person who has the courage to live with honor.  It's really sad that you don't even recognize the irony of blaming others for their own lack of personal responsibility. 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 14:01 | Link to Comment Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

I'm almost going to agree with you, except you seem to be implying that a college education is somehow irresponsible. Given, in some - or, in light of federal(ly backed) loans and grants eliminating the balance of supply/demand - many cases, this may be true. But this isn't what children are taught - they are taught that college is just what you do after high-school, full stop. And in this narrative, once upon a time in reality too, attending college was a very responsible thing to do for a host of reasons. The reasons for the irresponsibility are: extending credit to those who should never have received it for obvious financial reasons, and our culture of inculcating children with the belief that college is necessary, which actually makes sense given that our society has tried for decades to make this a reality.

Bank(er)s get off scott-free for making stupid investments, why shouldn't the rest of us get the same treatment? Moral hazard. The tragedy stems from the fact that young people cannot be faulted for believing the advice of virtually every older person they're likely to have met, particularly when, superficially, said advice worked so well for these older people.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 14:14 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

How then do you ensure that the people who were intelligent enough to avoid the student loan trap are benefitted for their hard work and ingenuity?

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:51 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Hard work and ingenuity STILL lead to lucrative employment (just NOT for everyone!)

"The time is coming when everyone will have to choose between doing what is easy and what is right." -- Albus Dumbledore

Massive grasshopper extinction event dead ahead, all ants to their bunkers...

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 11:34 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

This is true, but there has been a sea change in a few notable issues.  One is that it is more difficult for ingenuity and hard work to pay off...  (the pie is shrinking).  The other issue is that failure carries a significantly more detrimental legacy.  Once you get bucked from the bronco, it is vastly more harder to get back on (as compared to bubble years when you couldn't go wrong jumping onto another bull).

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 14:04 | Link to Comment crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

What a joke.  You lament the lack of personal responsibility and then blame it on others.

If you aren't trying to be funny, then you are downright pathetic.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:52 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

If those others are irresponsible, am I to be their keeper?  Does free will mean anything to you?

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:45 | Link to Comment insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

What are these "resource constraints" that you speak of???  </sarc>

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:46 | Link to Comment Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

"If you start out asking for a free lunch, then your pleas are likely to fall on deaf ears...  especially from the people who had the opportunity to go to college, but decided not to because it didn't make financial sense...  and have been working for the last half a dozen years in the real world..."

Totally ignoring the fact that 3 generations of Americans were raised from infancy on the belief that they could pursue whatever job or career or trade or vocation they damn well pleased, plus the fact that most  of the higher-paying, more secure, more respected, more intellectual, and more prestigious jobs absolutely required a college education - and still do.

If you tell your kid that it is perfectly acceptable to become a poet when he/she grows up, don't act surprised when he/she goes for a fucking English major! That's the way our idiotic progressive society works - erect barriers to entry because they will ensure fairness and equality.

Don't blame your children for trying to succeed in this fucked up society, blame us so-called adults for permitting this society to continue to victimize our own ***damn children.

NB: Do not try this if you're a liberal, that is how we got into this fucking mess in the first place.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:56 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

First, the fact that multiple predecessor generations did something has nothing to do with whether I should do it...  I must survey the present environment and, after considering everything, move forward...  even when I am incentivized not to think for myself due to the nanny state.

Second, we're discussing 18 year old+ people.  These are legally adults in our society...  they can vote idiots into office and even go fight and die so we can keep the oil flowing where we want it and dollar hegemony.  If these same people commit murder because of their familial situation and what they "learned", do we not still assign them culpability?

Third, I'm not ignoring that issue...  It's purposefully not discussed...  it's called staying on topic.  Yes, we all know there is much culpability and blame to be spread around.  But, in the end, what are you arguing for?  If you're arguing to absolve students of their debts in exchange for returning a degree, then fuck off...  come out and say it.  Otherwise, again, you're whining over a tangent.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:34 | Link to Comment Tuari
Tuari's picture

A do over on poor decisions... kind of reminds me of last Tuesday...

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:53 | Link to Comment ohhhhhbaaaaahhh...
ohhhhhbaaaaahhhhhhhhhmaaaaaahhhhh's picture

I study to become a mechanical engineer in england. I will be in debt around 45000$. 

I will never pay the debt back and invest savings in silver and gold, will move to China or some other asian country, get a good job in mech engineering then retire and die.

 

Is this a good plan?   

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:56 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

no

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 14:07 | Link to Comment Slewburger
Slewburger's picture

Are you kidding? If you can't or won't pay a loan back; it's theft.

Quit school and go work on an drilling rig, move to Aberdeen, try to become a driller. Engineering is a good career, but you won't make it in the professional world with an attitude like that.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 16:26 | Link to Comment ohhhhhbaaaaahhh...
ohhhhhbaaaaahhhhhhhhhmaaaaaahhhhh's picture

Education should be free. It is not free because the current system. Why should i pay when that money will become super inflated in the hands of gov... i can put it to better use buying gold and silver. 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:28 | Link to Comment Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

You mean like the adults who from fucking literally gradeschool never stopped harping on the importance of a college education? The adults who did everything in their power to sell college as a prerequisite for a good life? Those adults should not be respected, they should be flung into the ocean in iron fetters.

You're really going to blame teenagers for poor financial decisions pushed on them by 2 generations of fully grown adults?

How fucking stupid are you, and how fucking stupid do you take the rest of us to be? Very? Immensely? Infinitely?

Do you know what the crime known as "conspiracy" involves??? Demand that the lenders who gave these non-dischargeable loans to ignorant children eat their fucking losses by allowing these loans to be discharges via bankruptcy ... or SHUT THE FUCK UP because you lack any credibility, moral consistency, or ability to think rationally. Or do you think no lender should ever have to take a loss? Think hard now, this is important.

 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 14:17 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

First, the dischargeability of debt has nothing to do with whether it will be repaid.  To think that it is non-dischareable, therefor the "banks will never have to take a loss" is fallacious to say the least.  I encourage you not to argue with reality.  [banks may not take a loss for other reasons, but those are outside the scope of your argument as presented].

Second, we're talking about people that are 18 years of age+.  If they were younger, then they lack the necessary capacity to enter into a binding contract.  As stated above, at 18 years of age, we fully recognize the rights of people but for a few special circumstances (e.g. purchase of alcohol).  [remember that most of the time they require a cosigner with deeper pockets][remember too, there are plenty of non traditional students, etc.]

Third, if adults (legally and universally recognized) are so easily corraled as to be overcome with peer pressure that they make a decision that ruins their entire life, then I dare say they probably weren't going to be very productive anyway.

Fourth, there is no such thing as the crime of conspiracy...  there has to be an attached bona fide crime, e.g. murder...  you cannot conspire to conspire.  But I commend your vagueness.

Fifth, the lender for most of these things is the federal government.  So, the concept of banks and who actually loses in defaults is a bit...  hazy.

Sixth, even if able to be discharged in bankruptcy, it's not going to help youth employment...  so I'm not sure what your goal is.

PS, your question was probably answered in my posts below before you even posted...  might help to actually check the posts before yours.

 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 14:20 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

Here is the dilemma: students used to default on student loans, then get new student loans and go back to school. Some people were able to make a living as lifelong students by repeating this process over and over. If you discharge student loans, how do you prevent this from occurring? 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 14:27 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Kind of...  You cannot be discharged on command any time you like...  there are frequency limitations.  Increase or lower them accordingly...

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 15:43 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

You can thank Joe BiteMe for the non-dischargeability of Student Loan Debt.  A majority of the American voters and an even higher percentage of young voters voted for the Senator from MBNA, and then voted to keep him on the job.

I can understand being upset at oneself for having indebted oneself so much and not even curing their infantilism or stupidity, but name calling is entirely juvenile and does nothing but prove my point.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 14:58 | Link to Comment SheepleLOVEched...
SheepleLOVEcheddarbaybiscuits's picture

hey fuckwit, how the fuck is an 18yr old kid supposed to know what a "good investment" is regarding their education and future? How could an 18yr old kid see the future in the jobs market? YOU ARE IGNORANT!

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 15:31 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Then an 18 year old isn't an adult, and should be treated as such, or even legally entitled to the privileges and immunities of adulthood, such as VOTING since as you claim they are incapable of seeing what's coming down the road.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 15:54 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

All while ignoring the 18 year olds that actually see the train coming and get the hell off the track...

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 17:45 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Or worse, ignoring the 18 year olds who signed up to defend their country, and the less-than-noble foreign policy designs of their politicians, and didn't come back in one piece, which is a significantly higher cost than debt servitude.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 16:47 | Link to Comment The trend is yo...
The trend is your friend's picture

At last check students in engineering, medicine and the sciences weren't complaining about no jobs. 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 15:21 | Link to Comment Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

So are they gonna refund all the trips to Cancun, dope, sex, booze, football and basketball game tix, iPhones, etc. etc. etc.????

 

That's what I thought.........

 

Since they voted overwhelmingly for Obama, he may do them a solid.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 16:12 | Link to Comment jballz
jballz's picture

 

Hey diplomas are on the table. keep Obama in president and you never know what you might get turned to free.

 

What I still don't grasp is why job requirements still put one of those degree things in prerequisites. Don't they know yet? 

Well haters the college grad unemplyment rate is a hell of a lot lower than the general population and the average pay is a little higher so probably should keep your little shitheads in school if you can. While I like the idea of efundable tuition, in practical terms, drop out early or pay your fucking tab.

 

 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 16:13 | Link to Comment Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

Maybe if the schools print bigger, fancier degrees. Like 4 by 8 feet. Lots of colors, stars, fancy scripts. On the same cotton rag dollars are printed on.
Really make the college muppets feel the dry fisted anal packing was /is worth it.
Maybe gold plastic IPads.
( just trying to help. Honest. Trust me. OTB )

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:06 | Link to Comment fuu
fuu's picture

I like the 2 calling for the deportation of anyone signing the secession petitions, because expressing your opinion is exilable.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:30 | Link to Comment Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

So by signing some incredibly naive petition, I'd get a free ticket out of the fascist states of america rather than having to spend a small fortune on emigration? Sign me up.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:06 | Link to Comment rtalcott
rtalcott's picture

They received an education...but not the one they wanted...

 

Education is what you get when you don't get what you want...

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:22 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

They should staple "the bill" to the diploma to better represent the 'EDUCATION' they received...

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:30 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Exactly.  The colleges have a printing press too and, just like dollar dillution, college degrees have become less and less valuable over time. 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:28 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

The only education is experience...  everything else is snake oil and government imposed middle men.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:08 | Link to Comment libertus
libertus's picture

Imagine the liablity issues for the colleges or universities if this idea catches on. It couldn't happen to a nicer group of oligarchs. 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:24 | Link to Comment ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

You're kidding, right? Any student loan bailout will consist of their obligations being transferred entirely to the taxpayer via deficit spending. The banks that made these loans will be paid at 100%.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:32 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Right.  You have to eliminate all of the transactions.  It isn't a student gets loan money back, school gives up tuition issue...  you'd have to claw back everything from (or stuff it back into) the genesis of the money creation.  As a result, the banks would need to cough up their spoils the same.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:08 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Hah....clueless idiots. The only debt forgiveness you will recieve is when Uncle Sam conscripts you into military service for the resource wars.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:15 | Link to Comment azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

and charges you for the bullets you use

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 14:55 | Link to Comment machineh
machineh's picture

... and then for the one they use on you

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:15 | Link to Comment crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

I think you may be onto something...conscription may well be returning to a post office near you.

Speaking of military service, the Vietnam Veterans Memorial was dedicated 30 years ago today.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:33 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

The same "petition" is effectively being made for housing...  umm, you can have this house back, err, please give us our money back (actually, it's even more preposterous, "we don't need to pay anything, but please let us stay here).  Good luck with that shit.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:52 | Link to Comment DUNTHAT
DUNTHAT's picture

Ya wanna reduce the defense Budget??

Bring back conscription for 18 year olds.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 14:33 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

How, exactly, would having more people in the military cause it to cost less?

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:06 | Link to Comment Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

Milo Minderbinder, LLc.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 15:00 | Link to Comment SheepleLOVEched...
SheepleLOVEcheddarbaybiscuits's picture

fuck you

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:09 | Link to Comment slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

I am IN.  Will sell all of my diplomas back no problemo if Obama is buying.  

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:22 | Link to Comment Sweet Chicken
Sweet Chicken's picture

Any word on what caused that huge explosion in Indianapolis?! Figured I'd ask since you like in IN. 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:11 | Link to Comment Gene Parmesan
Gene Parmesan's picture

This would be funny if it wasn't based on such obviously false hope.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:16 | Link to Comment economics9698
economics9698's picture

My kid got a 69% discount on his student loan.  The bankers are desperate.  

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:19 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Thing is, though, with the economy as it is, he'll probably get a 69% discount on his salary as well.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:24 | Link to Comment ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

And buy a house at a 69% short sale.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:34 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

And have to 69 the patricians for enough money to pay back the discounted loans...

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:35 | Link to Comment ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Oddly enough, a nicely-equipped Escalade can be had for about $69 g's.  Think I see a pattern here.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 13:50 | Link to Comment ceilidh_trail
ceilidh_trail's picture

I believe that that 69% discount is now income to be reported by your kid to the IRS. Gotta keep the ponzi going...

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 14:08 | Link to Comment Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

1099-C income can be excluded as income if the taxpayer is insolvent.

Just file Form 982 with your taxes and exclude the amount of the 1099-C up to the level of insolvency.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f982.pdf

 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:42 | Link to Comment Alpha Monkey
Alpha Monkey's picture

Lots of that going around these days.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:14 | Link to Comment Turin Turambar
Turin Turambar's picture

LOL!  No further proof necessary to demonstrate how nobody wants to be responsible for his own decisions - not the bad ones at least.  These clueless dolts don't even recognize that the money they paid was the cover charge for their 6 year party.  The degree is only an acknowledgment that the student partied until closing time.  ;-)

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:15 | Link to Comment Turin Turambar
Turin Turambar's picture

Autodidact FTW!

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 12:25 | Link to Comment Mercury
Mercury's picture

That's a good one kids...and I want a full tax refund too!

Actually, the education you received is priceless: 

Rely on or enter into a counterparty relationship with the government and you're likely to get screwed.

Just wait until the Feds do for heathcare what they did for college and housing.

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