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Ron Paul: "0% Chance Of 'Grand Bargain' Over Fiscal Cliff"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Shining a little reality light on the otherwise pollyanna-like dearth of pragmatism that is the mainstream media's guest-list, Ron Paul provided Bloomberg TV's Trish Regan a little more than we suspect she bargained for when asked if he had any hope that we avoid the fiscal cliff. The constant "delaying-of-the-inevitable" enables our politicians to avoid facing up to the serious consequences of our reality and as Representative Paul notes the chances of a grand bargain are "probably zero... that's why I think we're over the cliff [already]." Just like the handling of the debt ceiling debacle, Paul notes they will "pretend they are going to do it" until we get a total crash of the dollar and the entire financial system (which he notes is what will occur if we continue the status quo). "We are at a point of no return" unless certain things change, since "we are not the productive nation we used to be."

Paul on the fiscal cliff and whether politicians are under more pressure to just do what they need to do to get votes:

"Well I think that's true and I think it's been that way for a long time but the big difference is the Treasury is bare. It isn't like we're in the 1950s and 1960s where economic growth could work our way out of these problems that you could print money forever. Printing the money right now, what does it do, it fills the banks with excessive reserves and they get paid to park it at the Federal Reserve. So it's quite different. We're not the productive nation we used to be…we have a lot of jobs gone overseas. Our dollar is weakening because prices do go up and as long as we do that, the politicians are going to keep pushing that and trying to get away with that but the big question is how long will politicians will be able to get away with that."

On the probability that a grand bargain will be reached on the fiscal cliff:

"Probably zero… that's why I think we're over the cliff. We're past bargaining states because they will not address those things I just stated. They're going to try to pretend that they are going to do it. The way they handled the debt increase, last summer, that is a pretty good example. And matter of fact the debt increase might be the big event come February that might be big because they can roll things over…they can postpone big decisions in January and yet that still does not remove the uncertainty. Uncertainty is a major cause of the inability for the market to get moving again and they have to revamp it in a much more detailed fashion than they are even talking about right now."

On whether Obama will be able to bring Congress together for some kind of reform before the end of the year:

"Oh no, I think there will be something, but it will be very temporary, it won't be long lasting and restore confidence and fix the problem. But there will be some type of reconciliation of saying we'll do this and a little of that and it may even help the financial markets for a little while, but since it won't solve the problems it will only be temporary. "

 

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Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:16 | 2978083 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

you tried Dr. Paul....you really really tried.....you may go in Peace

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:21 | 2978104 SilverTree
SilverTree's picture

Forbidden Knowledge - History of the Khazar Empire [Lecture by Jack Otto]

 

http://youtu.be/ZVomYbbb3L0

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:53 | 2978219 Aziz
Aziz's picture

Ron Paul looks like he deserves a rest. Being the sanest person in Washington has taken its toll. Still wish he was President, though.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:56 | 2978232 walküre
walküre's picture

Who is tired of hearing about "Fiscal Cliff" yet besides me?

It's just as tiresome as the "war on terrorism".

Bills need to get paid. Entitlements will want to be funded. There is only one solution.

PRINT FEST

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:20 | 2978302 I think I need ...
I think I need to buy a gun's picture

ron paul has always been a little on the radical side of things

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:30 | 2978340 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

i'd say deficating all over constitution a la NDAA etc etc is pretty radical, if only it weren't any longer...

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:12 | 2978458 Nothing To See Here
Nothing To See Here's picture

And just as radical is a 16 trillion debt load, and mounting.

But yes, liberty is also a radical thing, in some way.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:18 | 2978476 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

USTreasury returning less than real inflation. How's that bad for america? It is the Chinese that are getting the short end of the bargain.

 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:33 | 2978523 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Have you been in the stores lately to see where things are made?

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:04 | 2978603 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Lets be logical.  The fiscal cliff was created by a super committee.  No problem, since everyone knows a super committee can fly.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:48 | 2978724 toady
toady's picture

I'm sure the super-duper committee can fix any problems the super committee couldn't.

If not there is always the supercalifragilisticexpialidocios committee.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 00:04 | 2978755 SMG
SMG's picture

I don't know who i believe anymore.   Is Ron pushing for change or being conrolled resisatance, I don't know. 

Free America,that's the goal, but will we ever get there.

Will we ever stop the Elite from killing all of us? I hope so......

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 00:40 | 2978824 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

We need to start a petition drive over at Obama's new petition website calling for, "Ron Paul's Annual Audit of the Federal Reserve Bank"   Someone here better than me at writing a nice concise petition calling for a complete audit and accounting of transactions, gold holdings, ownership, etc....   I'll sign it, if someone can get it going.  

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 02:03 | 2978941 redpill
redpill's picture

Some day space aliens will come across the smouldering remains of our planet and wonder why the fuck we didn't listen to Ron Paul.

 

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 02:24 | 2978963 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

"I will steal the majority of peoples money, wealth, and ability to prosper by owning the money supply and making the monetary rules myself." - Dr. Evil

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 03:12 | 2979008 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

The National debt is $16 Trillion.

Billion with a "B"?, that was dead a long time ago.

We're talking in the "Ts" now.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 07:00 | 2979125 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

 Some day space aliens will come across the smouldering remains of our planet and wonder why the fuck we didn't listen to Ron Paul.

~~~

And when they do... Krugman will be there hailing their arrival and how it'll be a boon to GDP... I hope he gets hit with the space ray first...

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 06:00 | 2979102 Snoopy the Economist
Snoopy the Economist's picture

...or Ross Perot

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 04:41 | 2979059 Redhotfill
Redhotfill's picture

True Huxley, the chinks are gettin the short end of the stick, and thats good....  Until the figure they got some boom boom when hey wanted yum yum.  Last thing you want is a billion mowfo's all mad they got effed in the A.  I mean you never seen that City Wok guy all pissed?

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 07:53 | 2979173 hedgefunddartthrower
hedgefunddartthrower's picture

That would be true if only the chinese were still buying US treasuries - but they are not. The Fed is buying up most of the US Treasuries thru the back door from banks and the US taxpayers are simply taking on more debt from themselves while the primary dealers are picking up a commission for acting as front for the FED.  The banks keep making money while the US government debt keeps piling up. The US debt is a house of cards.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 11:39 | 2979825 Thulsa Doom
Thulsa Doom's picture

100% correct. Furthermore, I would suspect there is some kind of under the table deal with the Chinese that the banks and fed suppress the price of gold so the Chinese can buy gradually at a lower price in exchange for china not dumping their treasury holdings all at once. China is no longer buying usts, they are buying gold.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 12:30 | 2980078 Thisson
Thisson's picture

Anyone who thinks gold prices are being suppressed is a fucking retard.  If you know anything about economics, you know that artificially lowering prices results in shortages.  There are no shortages.  You can get all the gold you want at the market price.  You don't need to buy it in the black market.  You may think gold should be worth more than it is, but right now, Mr. Market does not agree, and the reason is simple.  GOLD HAS NO YIELD, and the market is so yield-starved that it's chasing all kinds of shitty credits.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:05 | 2978435 LostAtSea
LostAtSea's picture

Yea, because upholding the Constitution and paying down debt is so radical.

 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:39 | 2978482 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

 

ron paul has always been a little on the radical side of things

 

That's true. Radical means to go to the root. Other politicians make feel good speeches which vary from crowd to crowd. Only Ron Paul gets the joint rockin' with talk of monetary policy, nonintervention and individual rights and responsibilities.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:20 | 2978649 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

"ron paul has always been a little on the radical side of things"

Why, that radical ole' constitutionalist, he.  

Liberty is now a radical proposition (see Gop double-cross and steady-as-she-goes election result)! Truly fucked up.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 04:40 | 2979057 cossack55
cossack55's picture

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act"

G.O.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 08:15 | 2979197 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

ron paul did what he could to educate- he was an MD and not a hard as nails street fighter..see what is happening to the military leadership to know what he would have faced if he had enough support to make a real run at POTUS.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 11:41 | 2979832 Thulsa Doom
Thulsa Doom's picture

We have to get back to the 80s when "radical" meant awesome.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 03:57 | 2979031 Popo
Popo's picture

Radical side of things?

Let me present the edgiest, most bad-ass, radical document ever written:

Read this again and behold what true rebels looked like.  This is radicalism.  Pure motherfucking awesome.

http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/

And if you're too lazy to read it again, let me excerpt the most important sentence for you:

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,"

America *is* radical, and don't ever forget it.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 10:40 | 2979594 ManOfBliss
ManOfBliss's picture

America *was* radical.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:46 | 2978555 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Have you heard that Greece might default on its debt yet? You might try researching that if you're tired of hearing about the fiscal cliff. 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:52 | 2978577 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

actually it's completely mis-named. if we go "over the cliff" we end up having our taxes go way up and spending slashed dramatically. and this is bad how again? sounds to me like we're arguing over the wrong thing here. don't we WANT to go over this thing?

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 00:10 | 2978768 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

Yeah, we want to turn the clock back 4 years before there was trillion dollar deficits and long term unemployment checks and tax breaks. The military cutbacks are cutbacks to their increases. The fiscal cliff is nothing. When they want to add another $2.5 trillion to the debt ceiling and Representative Boner wants to make a $250 cut to the annual budget, that'll be the real deal.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 06:38 | 2979116 Ludwig Van
Ludwig Van's picture

 

 

True. "Fiscal cliff" is a politicized descriptor. Keep in mind the term was coined by Bernanke. Going "over the cliff" -- the ramifications of what have already been agreed upon by both parties -- represents little more than a step *away* for the continuance of profligate government spending (underwritten of course by debt monitization).

"Fiscal cliff" -- Bring it on. We need it.

 

 

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 07:23 | 2979143 OneTinSoldier66
OneTinSoldier66's picture

As Peter Schiff said, it's amazing that the msm/establishment has gotten to where they now make it out as if this thing is a "cliff" that we don't want to dare go over.

 

If we were to go over what the Marxists are calling a "cliff"(minus any of the tax hikes imo), it would mean that we would get a tiny little slice of libertarianism.

 

That's now called going over a cliff. LOL

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:42 | 2978703 bart12
bart12's picture

I am all for going over the fiscal cliff. The media is fear mongering about the "fiscal cliff". People need to understand that this fiscal cliff is the best gift to USA to finally tackle its 17 trillion $ debt and increasing. The fiscal cliff will be the first step to resolve US debt problem immediately...Automatic Tax increase and spending cut is the only option for USA if anyone know how to do the math of addition and subtraction. If the US govt decide to kick the can down the road, the empire will definitely collapse worse than anything we have witness in history.. As for stupid Congress & Obama, the best they can do is to do nothing (when did they ever fix anything??)..

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 06:32 | 2979114 Iconoclast
Iconoclast's picture

PRINT FEST

 

Yep..

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:31 | 2978339 ACP
ACP's picture

Ron Paul will be around, and as the SHTF, more people will wake up. He's resting up for what's coming next. I just hope we'll have some more leaders like him who can continue the education that so many in the Western World so desperately need.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:41 | 2978404 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

First you got to get mad. Most people have forgotten how to do that. Here's an example,

For Pure Unadul­ter­at­ed Re­venge. That's all this is about.

www.myspace.com/video/vid/109079927

 

New Rand Paul video.

Is 1984 Now?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALN7LTeLxtI

 

Daily Paul community recommends this documentary.

Park Avenue: Money, Power & the American Dream

http://video.pbs.org/video/2300849486

 

 

 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:29 | 2978661 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

 

 

 

 

Gee, any college course recommendations in there?

 

Or just the 'usual' conspiracy-based, populist (you know 'common-man wisdom', 'man on the street knowledge' kind of stuff, the 'man on the street' who doesn't know bull about much truth be told; you ever watch Jay Leno "Man on the street segments") bullshit?

 

 

(I would have tossed 'Bircher' along side populist in there, but you might have thought I wrote 'birther' and that is a whole different animal.)

 

 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:33 | 2978675 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

That PBS show is biased, but there is good info in it.  College is a waste of money and negative return on investment these days. Conspiracy Analysis is a profitable course study, but it requires a high IQ.

I was asked to do a rewrite on this;

I discovered a way for you to say anything profound you want and present content any which way you are inclined, without any interference from the Progressers, Neo-Cons, or the dead stream media.  It's a get out of jail free card.

Prerequisite your incendiary thoughts if you perceive being attacked by the MSM, citing the name Alex Jones or invoke his name somewhere in the content, and you will never be bashed in the MSM for the information or opinion, as his name is banned from being spoken out loud on TV.

This is a monumental discovery.  Use it prolifically to say whatever you want. If you are challenged on TV for any perceived politically incorrect statement you make, invoke the name Alex Jones, and that will immediately shut up your challenger. It's like throwing holy water on a vampire.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:40 | 2978685 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

 

 

 

 

I wrote "College Courses"; I didn't say 'college' per se. Learn to read. (Although 'learning to think' I would say ought to be a LOT higher priority ...)

 

BTW, any mention of 'Alex Jones' and college in the same post is like bringing matter and anti-matter in close proximity with nothing good resulting from it. 

 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:42 | 2978704 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

So I gave you more than you asked for. Sorry. The course I recommended is "Conspiracy Analysis", I believe The Army War College offers it.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 04:30 | 2979051 scaleindependent
scaleindependent's picture

Ident777 econ

 

People's posts on the net' are frequently warped out of their original meaning.  I hope that your posts do not reflect who you are.  I say that because your posts sound like you are a constipated, irascible creature.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 00:44 | 2978832 Twodogs
Twodogs's picture

Wow, i mean, wow! My Space still exists?!!

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:56 | 2978405 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

I'm sick of heros and saviors.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:25 | 2978503 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Those who lead by example like Ron Paul don't need to billed as heroes or saviors. They gain attention and affection naturally.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:49 | 2978561 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

0%.  Isn't that what the big banks pay to borrow money from us?

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:20 | 2978652 nmewn
nmewn's picture

That would be the number...and if it takes even more degradation of fiat currency/labor, they go -0%.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:00 | 2978414 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Ron Paul will be around, and as the SHTF, more people will wake up.

I disagree. 50% will not get the idea until the EBT cards are flashing TILT! Then, as they wonder who is responsible for feeding and wiping them, things will really hit the fan. They will be mad, hurt, angry and looking for new sources of free shit.

DETROIT! AMERICA'S NEW MODEL COMMUNITY!

Select the best small arms you can. Shotguns are very advised when the hoard comes looking for the people that have fed them all these years, the suckers in the middle class.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:21 | 2978483 ACP
ACP's picture

After the Fall of the Roman Empire, the people who picked up the pieces formed city-states and one city, Venice, was able to create a business empire that lasted twice as long as the Roman Empire. Whether or not something similar will happen in the near future is yet to be seen, but I'm sure we'll see something within the same framework.

You'll be surprised how resilient a lot of middle class folks will be (in my opinion) and how willing they will be to move towards a society built on personal responsibility. When it's the life of yourself and your family, there will be a lot more who decide not to be a part of the horde. Not to say the horde won't be incredibly menacing...

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:28 | 2978512 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

If what you said was untrue mankind would have died out millenia ago.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 06:33 | 2979115 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Little gap of 600 yrs in between.

Usualy called the"dark ages".

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:30 | 2978513 Seer
Seer's picture

"Shotguns are very advised when the hoard comes looking for the people that have fed them all these years"

Chuck!  You're a farmer too (or you work for Monsanto)?

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 00:29 | 2978801 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzdomBX8U0w

UROKO

History of the Khazar Empire put in perspective, ESPECIALLY in the LAST HALF HOUR of that documentary.

The best organized gangs of criminals tend to either wipe each other out, or merge into some partnerships.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:21 | 2978105 Death and Gravity
Death and Gravity's picture

Give me a break.. the MSM is already pumping rosy optimism over a compromise in the works. Right, as if it didn't take 2 months of screamfest deadlock between the power duopoly to pick the low hanging fruit for achieving a NEGATIVE budget trimming last summer.

Time for the popcorn, boys, but don't go short just yet.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:27 | 2978135 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

Ron Paul has been in the Senate for a very long time. He knows the ins and outs.

He doesn't BS. If he says no chance for a grand bargain, I'd put stock in that and 

invest accordingly. 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:32 | 2978145 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Hmmmm...Joe Weisenthal or Ron Paul? Joe Weisenthal or Ron Paul?

It's awfully close, but I think I'll have to side with Ron Paul here.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:58 | 2978239 Bollixed
Bollixed's picture

That's weird to see Joe Weisenthal and Ron Paul mentioned in the same sentence.

One is arguably the last Statesman standing, and the other is a LSM clown who has to ask permission to use the restroom.

That's quite a juxtaposition there...

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:32 | 2978151 TheSettler
TheSettler's picture

Senate....what kind of shapeshifter are you....

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:43 | 2978187 Doubleguns
Doubleguns's picture

Settler, Your are so kind.  I was thinking a lot worse.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 11:18 | 2979720 oddball
oddball's picture

Greek.  

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:44 | 2978191 egoist
egoist's picture

Congress, not senate

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:05 | 2978249 nmewn
nmewn's picture

He was in the House, not the Senate. The term "Congress" means both House & Senate.

See what the MSM/government propaganda does? It conveniently leaves the do-nothing Senate in the shadows to work their "magic".

Which brings up another thing I've been mulling over...just why is it, that we have a former senator as president, a former senator as vice president, a former senator as secretary of state and the talk is...they want a former senator to join them and be defense secretary?

Prolly just me thinking these little connect the dots thingy's though...eh? ;-)

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:20 | 2978296 piceridu
piceridu's picture

No free thinking outsiders allowed into the exclusive club...just think, President Clinton's fucking wife, dragged in on his coat tail, became a senator of NY and is the Secretary of State of the United States of America...as the late great George Carlin said very eloquently..."It's a big club and you and me aren't in it". Gives a new meaning to insider trading...(traitors).

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:57 | 2978582 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

and she stood by while he screwed everything breathing so that proves she's a woman of integrity, strength and principle 

and nmewn makes an interesting point. The Congress suggests things and the Senate usually kills them. It's a very special club 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:26 | 2978667 nmewn
nmewn's picture

We have waaaay too many former senators in the executive branch of government. They all think the same...not good.

A peacock mentality.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:36 | 2978684 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

I wish they were peacocks. Peacocks are easy prey

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 03:10 | 2979007 SoCalBusted
SoCalBusted's picture

Apparently she really wasn't much of a "fucking wife", at least based on Bill's activities.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:21 | 2978307 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

We, here in the Commonwealth, are ardently enthusiastic that John Forbes Kerry, (who, by the way, served in Veet-Nam) take on his destiney role as SecDef.  Or SecState, or whatever.

And how dare you, Sir, to challenge the reputation of the most exclusive debating club in the World?  Shame, Shame I say (although Saul A. abrogates shame as a useless emotion, don't cha' know.)

Lots of people know that the Commonwealth fucked up to vote Liawatha into office.  But, without Barry on the Ticket, Scott could return and represent normal people.

- Ned

{whistling past the graveyard, I fully acknowledge}

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:58 | 2978412 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Shame, Shame I say (although Saul A. abrogates shame as a useless emotion, don't cha' know.)

Yes, it seems to be working in some quarters...its really a damned shame.

Once upon a time, no one had their hand out unless they were close to deaths door, despondent, helpless. Now, its gimme. From corporate to the projects.

Really is, a damned shame. Maybe shame is way overdue for a comeback.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:04 | 2978431 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Really is, a damned shame. Maybe shame is way overdue for a comeback.

Shame won't be back until murder and robbery are holding full sway first.

FORWARD SOVIET!

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:17 | 2978474 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H L Mencken

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:28 | 2978664 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

 

 

"Sure, cried the tenant men,but it’s our land…We were born on it, and we got killed on it, died on it. Even if it’s no good, it’s still ours….That’s what makes ownership, not a paper with numbers on it."

"We’re sorry. It’s not us. It’s the monster. The bank isn’t like a man."

"Yes, but the bank is only made of men."

"No, you’re wrong there—quite wrong there. The bank is something else than men. It happens that every man in a bank hates what the bank does, and yet the bank does it. The bank is something more than men, I tell you. It’s the monster. Men made it, but they can’t control it.”

~John Steinbeck, The Grapes of Wrath

 

---

“The bank - the monster has to have profits all the time. It can't wait. It'll die. No, taxes go on. When the monster stops growing, it dies. It can't stay one size.”

~John Steinbeck, The Grapes of Wrath

 

---

“And the great owners, who must lose their land in an upheaval, the great owners with access to history, with eyes to read history and to know the great fact: when property accumulates in too few hands it is taken away. And that companion fact: when a majority of the people are hungry and cold they will take by force what they need. And the little screaming fact that sounds through all history: repression works only to strengthen and knit the repressed. The great owners ignored the three cries of history. The land fell into fewer hands, the number of the dispossessed increased, and every effort of the great owners was directed at repression. The money was spent for arms, for gas to protect the great holdings, and spies were sent to catch the murmuring of revolt so that it might be stamped out. The changing economy was ignored, plans for the change ignored; and only means to destroy revolt were considered, while the causes of revolt went on.”

~John Steinbeck, The Grapes of Wrath

---

“And this you can know - fear the time when Manself will not suffer and die for a concept, for this one quality is the foundation of Manself, and this one quality is man, distinctive in the universe.”

~John Steinbeck, The Grapes of Wrath

 

BITCHEZ

 

 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:15 | 2978467 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

If only we could find a way to reconcile shame and what's in it for me...................

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:59 | 2978592 XitSam
XitSam's picture

I've often wondered about Obama's strategy on the Senate. Could it be "keep your enemies closer"? To defang the power brokers?  To get back into the Senate, they would need to wait until the right time and probably challenge an existing Democrat.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 01:00 | 2978857 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

Oh goody, Jon Corzine will fit right into the new cabinet seeing as how he's a former senator too.  Hail, hail, the gang's all here...

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:49 | 2978196 Voltaire
Voltaire's picture

What he is really saying is that there will not be a grand bargain of his liking, that is a return to gold standard, cut in military and welfare spending etc. But we will of course see a grand bargain. Not the one Ron Paul favours though. And me neither. 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:30 | 2978333 you enjoy myself
you enjoy myself's picture

we'll see a grand bargain, but one where all the "cuts" are 10 years out and are really reductions in the rate of growth instead of actual cuts.  the market will rejoice, burn the shorts, and then everything collapses in 2013.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:34 | 2978350 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Could be. But one of the historic ironies of the end of the Roman Empire was not that it was going to end, but that it took so long for it to end.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:24 | 2978499 centerline
centerline's picture

The difference now is that information travels by speed of light instead of horseback.  Money disappears at the same speed now as well.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:01 | 2978599 XitSam
XitSam's picture

In other words, Greece for the last 18 months.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:17 | 2978465 xtop23
xtop23's picture

No thanks to the Gold standard. That we DO NOT want. Competing currencies in the US is what we want and what Paul advocates. At least in the short to medium term. A true return to the Gold standard is fraught with peril.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:37 | 2978536 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

And certainly no bimetallism. A competing currency standard would let gold and silver fluctuate against each other along with any other currency in use which would lessen the chance of anyone being Crucified on a Cross of Gold.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 00:30 | 2978805 xtop23
xtop23's picture

I'm genuinely surprised I got even a single down arrow for my statement. I didn't think it was the least bit controversial and obvious common sense.

If they truly understood how easily such a thing could be manipulated, by the very powers they would wish to free themselves from, I suppose they'd feel differently.

A true Gold standard isn't the answer folks. Although, I agree almost anything would be an improvement ( at least in the short term ) over the current system.

 

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 00:54 | 2978850 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Perhaps you've picked up a serial down voter. It's all the rage. If you post something along the lines of "Harrisburg is the capital of Pennsylvania" and receive down votes there's a good chance that you've got your very own mischievous shadow.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 01:02 | 2978864 xtop23
xtop23's picture

 I'm not worried about the down arrow per se. I was just sort of a bit incredulous that anyone could legitimately be that dense. 

 If they want to junk me for grins they can knock themselves out.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 01:03 | 2978865 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

Harrisburg is the broke-ass capital of Pennsylvania.

Fixed it for ya.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:47 | 2978197 oldman
oldman's picture

Zorba:

A plus+ for you, my man.

A 'very long time' in the Roman Senate and a 'very long time' in the:

 u. s. congress

I am invested 'accordingly'           om

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:50 | 2978210 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

I know Mr Paul is a congressman, must be the rum that made that mistake.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:38 | 2978539 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

When Ron transforms from a congressman to a senator to a pink elephant you'll know to put the glass down.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:22 | 2978657 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

+1 Amen Crocket

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:02 | 2978248 knukles
knukles's picture

RP was House, not Senate.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:09 | 2978270 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

What is this "was" stuff and the 'he's gone" shit?  He's not dead and he's still in congress!  For fucks sake don't fire the man and bury him before his time!

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:48 | 2978391 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:36 | 2978533 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

He's retiring.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:05 | 2978547 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

If you play Aimee Allen backwards it says "Paul isn't dead, man."

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiKh9Ko3mw4

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 00:37 | 2978817 Assetman
Assetman's picture

Oh... there will be a 'grand bargain' regarding the Fiscal Cliff.

But the 'bargain' will involve more spending on nowhere close to adequate revenue collections... and yet another breach of the Debt Ceiling.

Bread and Circuses, my friends.  That's exactly what we'll get... and that's probably exactly what we collectively deserve.

Print away, Professor Bernanke!

 

 

 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:52 | 2978149 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Nothing's over until we decide it is!!!

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:12 | 2978269 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

What happened to the Deltas I used to know?

Where's the spirit?

Where's the guts?

Huh?

This could be the greatest night of our lives.

But you're gonna let it be the worst.

Oh, we're afraid to go with you, Bluto.  We might get in trouble.

Well just kiss my ass from now on!

Not me!!!

I'm not gonna take this!!!!!!!!!

 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:24 | 2978320 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

well, u b talkin' to u-sef

??? tonight is the greatest night????

I think that Phil Collins did something along those lines.

- Ned

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:25 | 2978322 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

well, u b talkin' to u-sef

??? tonight is the greatest night????

I think that Phil Collins did something along those lines.

- Ned

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:48 | 2978571 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

 

 

What happened to the Deltas I used to know?

 

Those Deltas have been replaced by these Deltas. Toga parties are one thing but you do not want any alcohol introduced into your incubator.

 

In this world, a person's class status is biologically and chemically engineered. The genes that determine brains and brawn are carefully selected. Then, a bottled embryo undergoes the initial conditioning that will determine its skills and strength, in keeping with its destiny as an Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, or Epsilon.

 

http://www.huxley.net/studyaid/bnwbarron.html

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 02:51 | 2978990 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

Didn't Blutarsky become a senator?

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 07:59 | 2979179 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

And a damn fine one at that.  But when he let it slip he had presidential aspirations he was put on double secret probation.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:53 | 2978176 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I have no regrets about "throwing away" my vote by writing in Paul on my Florida ballot.  I disagree with him on probably half of his fundamental policy ideas, but I agree 100% on the others (states' rights, much smaller federal government, dismantle police state, MIC, and others), and I believe he would honestly try to do what he promises.    With the other choices, that made him the clear candidate to vote for.  Too bad his son is a douche corporatist, because he could otherwise take up the mantle.  Given that Ron Paul is probably at the end of his career for national office, we can only hope that the coming collapse will usher in a new round of reasonable alternatives to the Blue Team/Red Team nonsense, but I suspect our political candidate choices are going to get much worse before they get better.  

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:23 | 2978310 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

"I have no regrets about "throwing away" my vote by writing in Paul on my Florida ballot. "

So you wrote in Ron Paul right?  And told others to do the same yet you're anything but a Libertarian.  I see you enjoy rubbing salt on the wound.  Enjoy the script you wrote for yourself because I will.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:37 | 2978362 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

So my vote for Ron Paul is salt in your wound?  If that is the case, I'd say your wound is self-inflicted.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:08 | 2978444 nmewn
nmewn's picture

LTER is apparently attempting a conversion/intervention I think...to what purpose I have no idea.

But in the past, it has always defended more government regulation (now proclaiming a belief in smaller government). Not long ago, it defended "you didn't build that" to the disgust of those who did build that.

Maybe it was being contrarian then...but you are wise to keep this one at the end of a stick...I damned sure do.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:25 | 2978489 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Wow, I guess I have the winker so afraid of my consistent message that black and white thinking is counter-productive, that he refers to me as a non-person ("it"), and is encouraging others not to talk to me.  How free-market-of-ideas-really-a-hypocrite-who-doesn't-like-dissent-freedom-is-for-me-and-not-you, of "him."

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:46 | 2978527 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

You were able to see the forest for the trees and wrote in RP for Prez, congratz. I'd wager there were hundreds of thousands of other 'progressives' right there with you. 

Now consider how many 'Libertarians' were able to make an equally grand gesture and wrote in 'Ralph Nader' for Veep?

Count on one hand all the ZH echochambermaidens such an idea even occurred to I betcha y'all...

as long as we're on the subject of '~0% chances for Grand Bargains', I mean.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:09 | 2978618 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"I'd wager there were hundreds of thousands of other 'progressives' right there with you."

As long as you didn't make the wager in NYC...lol...looks like a bomb went off...

http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/results/states/new-york

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:13 | 2978628 fuu
fuu's picture

I was going to write in Ralph as Vice President but I chose slewie instead.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 00:25 | 2978799 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

I voted for Roseanne Barr. She's the same as Ron Paul, without the whiney voice. End the federal reserve and usury and stop being the country with the most prisoners per capita and legalize weed. Paul should run as her vice president under the peace and freedom party next time.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 01:49 | 2978924 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

weeellllll, not quite the same as. . .

Roseanne Barr strongly supports a woman's right to choose.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Roseanne_Barr.htm

but other than that, she's covered all the points made often, here.  and she'd be hella funny in the role, you have to admit.

upvote for creativity, ha.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:36 | 2978535 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

The establishment grows increasingly paranoid with each incremental loss in the power of their propaganda.

You're doing it correctly. They must come over to the correct "side." Compromise only hastens our demise at this point.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:04 | 2978609 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"that he refers to me as a non-person ("it")"

Ok, clarification is in order then...are you male or female?...this would be a yes or no question to you LTER.

"and is encouraging others not to talk to me."

No, it would be just what I said...holding you and your ever changing ideas at arms length...even to the point of holding you on a stick.

"who-doesn't-like-dissent-freedom"

Dissent-Freedom?

Mmmkay. I clearly said, you may have been being contrarian in your previous arguments in defending more government regulation and the "you didn't build that" hogwash.

But you defended both of them...did you not? In so doing, how do you reconcile that with your new found "small government" position?

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 00:26 | 2978800 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Hey straw man.  Good to see again, as always.  You post here every day, 12 or 14 hours a day, so you must read even more often (assuming you care what anyone says but "you").  Find a single quote from me defending "big government."    I consistently defend the concept of government, which brings us such awful things as roads, schools, airports, GPS, etc, but I never defend a bloated government defined by the MIC.  I'm sorry for you that you can't see the difference.  Rander.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 07:28 | 2979152 nmewn
nmewn's picture

1) Ok, I'll continue to call you an "it"...as you didn't answer the question. Even though you object to being called an "it"...when given the opportunity to clarify, to right some feigned indignity on your person, you declined. 

2) So, in your opinion, THE ONLY place you can find "bloat", across the entire expanse of federal government, is in the defense department? Mr.Chu can stuff cash in the pockets of Obama crony's for Fisker Karma's, Mr.Holder can run guns across the border to kill innocent mexicans and Mzzz. Sebelius can regulate a citizens health care until they go on the government dole and you are all good with that?

Over 6,000 new notices & regulations in just the last 90 days is the definition of bloat...

November 9, 2012 (CNSNews.com) – It’s Friday morning, and so far today, the Obama administration has posted 165 new regulations and notifications on its reguations.gov website.

In the past 90 days, it has posted 6,125 regulations and notices – an average of 68 a day.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/6125-proposed-regulations-and-notifications-posted-last-90-days-average-68-day

Looks to me like, they have a lot of people sittin around thinking up things to regulate.

What have you got to say about this?...Citizen It ;-)

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:52 | 2978215 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

Huffington Post
November 13, 2012

A Republican state legislator in Montana who once supported U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) for president is asking to be paid in gold and silver coins to guard against a collapse of the dollar.

State Rep. Jerry O’Neil (R-Columbia Falls) wrote to the state’s Office of Legislative Services on Friday making the request, noting that concerns among his constituents about the national debt have prompted him to ask for payment in gold and silver coins “that are unadulterated with base metals.” O’Neil, who is entering his sixth term, had not objected previously to being paid in dollars by the state for his services. Politico first reported the story on Tuesday.

“My constituents, when I went door to door, one of the things they were interested in was the $17 trillion national debt,” O’Neil told The Huffington Post. “Some of my constituents said we would not have this problem if we had currency backed by gold.”

http://www.infowars.com/montana-legislator-asks-to-be-paid-in-gold/

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:52 | 2978398 PeaceMonger
PeaceMonger's picture

Ron Paul was simply the messenger of an "Idea whose time has come".  

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:33 | 2978521 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

Ron Paul may speak the truth but he never had a shot at the presidency.

On the other hand, General Petraeus did and now he has been compromised

because of his affair. I have been telling my friends for years that Petraeus was

the only hope this country had. A military coup after the collapse of the dollar,

was our only hope of getting back on track to a government of the people.

Petraeus was the obvious candidate to lead the coup. In my heart I believe

Petraeus is a patriot and could lead us back to Democracy after the demons

have been exorcised. 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:00 | 2978596 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

If you're looking for a Caesar, that's not the one we need. Try this one:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eau3RoxGN8E

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 01:03 | 2978867 markmotive
markmotive's picture

It's too late for bargains anyway.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 02:46 | 2978983 JKearney3153
JKearney3153's picture

a Republican who wants to cut military spending!?!? i'm all in, Paul 2016

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 04:43 | 2979060 JuliaS
JuliaS's picture

Ron Paul first ran for president in 1988. I find it extraordinary that he managed to keep his patience for another 24 years.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:18 | 2978087 Insideher Trading
Insideher Trading's picture

Hear that? zero, nien, kaputsky. The sun will not rise nor set. Finished. Game over. Move on, start a war.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:18 | 2978088 koncaswatch
koncaswatch's picture

I'm really going to miss this guy's candid responses to dumb econo-questions.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:27 | 2978132 rodocostarica
rodocostarica's picture

Dont worry he will still be around

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:19 | 2978091 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Nice person, good intensions... Out of touch with reality... 

  Ron Paul is a , pragmatic person...  Ron Paul is "just Ron Paul"!

                                                                                               Invigoration BITCHEZ!

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:22 | 2978109 monopoly
monopoly's picture

Disagree Yen, maybe out of touch with those voters who need their social fix from Obama, but not out of touch with reality. In fact, I would say he is one of the few who is "In touch" with the truth. He was our hope, and it is gone.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:35 | 2978160 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 nO oFFENCE , to Mr.Paul. I think he is trying to "teach " his legacy to people that weren't around 3-4 decades ago.

  When I went to school, "cigarettes were bad".   Funny thing is cigarettes are still bad...

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:07 | 2978614 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

I think cigarettes are pretty good. That's why I'm willing to risk death by smoking them.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 00:33 | 2978811 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

I'll second that risk.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:42 | 2978181 booboo
booboo's picture

"He was our hope, and it is gone."

Well to be honest, you sir are our only hope, think about that for awhile.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 00:43 | 2978830 Assetman
Assetman's picture

Well... that, and Obi Wan Kenobi. ;)

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:42 | 2978182 Hi Ho Silver
Hi Ho Silver's picture

"He was our hope, and it is gone."

Considering his unprecedented record of success how could he fail?

 

I had better luck at the track with dog names that were anagrams of his.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:43 | 2978188 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

No offense but it's time we man up and be our own hope.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:56 | 2978231 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

+ 1 Agreed.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:04 | 2978252 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Plus 2!                  Junks/down votes< are for pussies!

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:59 | 2978593 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

worked for an island up north

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 02:11 | 2978953 xtop23
xtop23's picture

Exactly. Unplug from the matrix.

Get as much of your life out of the system as feasible and starve the leviathan.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 00:55 | 2978851 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Short Risk

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:21 | 2978304 ersatzteil
ersatzteil's picture

I like your Afghan heroin-induced version of reality, but I like keeping my teeth better. I'll continue to support the Paul and say no to freebasing h-bombs while looping Krugman lectures on youtube.

Stagflation BITCHEZ!

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:14 | 2978462 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Now U went and dun it...

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:19 | 2978092 Squid Vicious
Squid Vicious's picture

Romney really blew it by alienating the libertarians ... but of course no mention of this in MSM....

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:21 | 2978103 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Thanks S/V, I just couldn't verbalise?

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:24 | 2978122 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Perhaps, but imagine the shit storm Romney would have got FROM the MSM if he had simply endorsed most of Ron's quite rational economic policies.  There's the heart of darkness.

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