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Ron Paul: "0% Chance Of 'Grand Bargain' Over Fiscal Cliff"

Tyler Durden's picture


Shining a little reality light on the otherwise pollyanna-like dearth of pragmatism that is the mainstream media's guest-list, Ron Paul provided Bloomberg TV's Trish Regan a little more than we suspect she bargained for when asked if he had any hope that we avoid the fiscal cliff. The constant "delaying-of-the-inevitable" enables our politicians to avoid facing up to the serious consequences of our reality and as Representative Paul notes the chances of a grand bargain are "probably zero... that's why I think we're over the cliff [already]." Just like the handling of the debt ceiling debacle, Paul notes they will "pretend they are going to do it" until we get a total crash of the dollar and the entire financial system (which he notes is what will occur if we continue the status quo). "We are at a point of no return" unless certain things change, since "we are not the productive nation we used to be."

Paul on the fiscal cliff and whether politicians are under more pressure to just do what they need to do to get votes:

"Well I think that's true and I think it's been that way for a long time but the big difference is the Treasury is bare. It isn't like we're in the 1950s and 1960s where economic growth could work our way out of these problems that you could print money forever. Printing the money right now, what does it do, it fills the banks with excessive reserves and they get paid to park it at the Federal Reserve. So it's quite different. We're not the productive nation we used to be…we have a lot of jobs gone overseas. Our dollar is weakening because prices do go up and as long as we do that, the politicians are going to keep pushing that and trying to get away with that but the big question is how long will politicians will be able to get away with that."

On the probability that a grand bargain will be reached on the fiscal cliff:

"Probably zero… that's why I think we're over the cliff. We're past bargaining states because they will not address those things I just stated. They're going to try to pretend that they are going to do it. The way they handled the debt increase, last summer, that is a pretty good example. And matter of fact the debt increase might be the big event come February that might be big because they can roll things over…they can postpone big decisions in January and yet that still does not remove the uncertainty. Uncertainty is a major cause of the inability for the market to get moving again and they have to revamp it in a much more detailed fashion than they are even talking about right now."

On whether Obama will be able to bring Congress together for some kind of reform before the end of the year:

"Oh no, I think there will be something, but it will be very temporary, it won't be long lasting and restore confidence and fix the problem. But there will be some type of reconciliation of saying we'll do this and a little of that and it may even help the financial markets for a little while, but since it won't solve the problems it will only be temporary. "


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Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:37 | 2978163 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

The MSM would squall, but he would have gotten more votes.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:44 | 2978189 Hi Ho Silver
Hi Ho Silver's picture

And still lost.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:51 | 2978212 The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

Who knows. What if he'd made RP his running mate? Of course they have different views on nearly everything...

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:48 | 2978205 MiltonFriedmans...
MiltonFriedmansNightmare's picture

He would have pissed-off the banksters and he never would have been allowed to take office, but it would have been interesting to watch.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:39 | 2978368 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Exactly why he went slow and knew he was playing with fire. I kind of also think he knew he didn't stand a chance in hell, so he was hoping down the road the people would get it and start kicking ass.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:33 | 2978150 lunaticfringe
lunaticfringe's picture

Excellent moniker and dead on. I am libertarian and given Romney's elite banker status and status quo- squish handling of the economy with no plan and support of Obamacare, I said fuck him. I voted for Johnson. Me and a 1.1 million other souls. Btw, fuck the GOP too.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:38 | 2978168 Translational Lift
Translational Lift's picture

you and a 1.1 million other souls.


Elected obummer.....way to go.........

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:48 | 2978203 Antifederalist
Antifederalist's picture

You say it as if it were a bad thing, Mittens, Obummer what is the difference again?

Refusing to vote for two bad choices is not an error, even if one is slightly less bad than the other.

A lesser evil is still evil.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:02 | 2978602 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

went around and around with family and co-workers on this. 

It's amazing.

The two criminal parties have succeeded in convincing most people the world is flat

and they are the edges 

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 00:45 | 2978834 Assetman
Assetman's picture

Aye-Aye, Davey!

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:56 | 2978229 One eyed man
One eyed man's picture

The blame goes to the GOP voters who nominated a Wall Street insider just four years after a huge financial collapse that most people blame on Wall Street. What were they thinking?

People looked at Romney and thought "Here is one of the guys that made their fortunes by wrecking the economy.". Amazing he did as well as he did. A testament to Obama's leadership.

Repubs might have won the election if they had been able to find someone with some financial expertise who wasn't connected with Wall Street. Like a successful small businessman.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:05 | 2978257 Antifederalist
Antifederalist's picture

Well said. Any half way decent Rebublican would have beat Obummer. A 1% club member, flip flopping, Ken doll, who made his money doing LBO's, and belonged to a weird Christian sect that thinks Smith received the tablets in upstate NY. Not to mention the 47% comment. This guy and his supporters are so fucking stupid they deserved to lose. Which is not to say it is right. Obummer is as bad or worse.

In the end I believe Mittens will be glad he lost and Obummer will be sad he won. It is just math and the second derivative is now rising.......

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:05 | 2978607 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

upstate NY? Everyone knows God does his business on the island

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:14 | 2978282 hawk nation
hawk nation's picture

At least he is not a socialist/marxist like obamy who if the collapse comes will attempt get supreme power

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:18 | 2978637's picture

Romney ran for president not because he wanted power but because he honestly had the best interests of the average American at heart. Now that the election is over he's headed down to help Paul Ryan at the soup kitchen.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:21 | 2978487 formadesika3
formadesika3's picture

-- Repubs might have won the election if they had been able to find someone with some financial expertise who wasn't connected with Wall Street. Like a successful small businessman.-

Last time an outsider (okay, maybe not the financial expertise part) crashed the party, a peanut farmer from Georgia got elected POTUS. The TPTB made sure that would never ever happen again. That's why RP never had a chance within the republicrat two-for-one party system. The fix was in from the start.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:17 | 2978278 razorthin
razorthin's picture

Would you rather die of rabies or a bullet to the skull?  That was your only choice between the two clowns.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:24 | 2978663's picture

Who saw "Old Yeller?" Who cried when Old Yeller got shot at the end?  Nobody cried when Old Yeller got shot? I'm sure. I cried my eyes out.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:42 | 2978701 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

you're not an old feller if you don't cry for old yeller

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:13 | 2978281 knukles
knukles's picture

No, the people who did not vote or voted for RP that you blame for Obie's election are not the case, the problem.  That is a symptom.

The problem was the R's running a neo-con that has no place within the philosophical structure of the party I knew it and remember, a la the olde Western Conservatism of Barry Goldwater, et al.

RP represented a Pure Return to those Standards.
Almost Idyllic.
Which is what is needed with respect to a clean break from the New Normal.

Nope, I am madder than hell at my Republican friends for reelecting Obie... madder at them than my uber-liberal buds who voted and supported the O.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:46 | 2978712 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

brass knuckles hit it on the head. Now we're all bleeding. Whether you agree or disagree with their original principles, neither party practices them. Corruption has no principles 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:21 | 2978299 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

No a poor choice offered up by the republican establishment got Obummer elected. Had they offered up a viable candidate other than Obummer lite things would heve been much different. You really didn't think a man who made his living off of dismantling America had a chance did you?

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:37 | 2978627's picture



Elected obummer.....way to go.........


Are you suggesting that votes for Johnson were added to Obama's tally by the vote counters? Because you certainly can't blame Romney's loss on people who never would have voted for him not voting for him.


Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:49 | 2978207 MiltonFriedmans...
MiltonFriedmansNightmare's picture

The GOP needs a wooden stake driven through it's collective heart.


Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:39 | 2978173 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

It was never a surprise who Romney was and what he stood for, but maybe he misjudged libertarian support WHEN HE GOT A BIG FUCKING ENDORSEMENT FROM RAND.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:46 | 2978557 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Rand Paul =/= Libertarian. Rand Paul is a Conservative. Libertarians =/= Conservatives.


Some day the plebes will get this through their head.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:55 | 2978570 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

And Ron? Is he not a Libertarian too?

I'm sure Rand had no input from papa on his decision... /sarc

Ron and Rand really fucked up. The sooner they admit that, and the sooner their ass kissing supporters admit that, the better.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:35 | 2978677's picture

Here's a statement Ron Paul made last month. As always he encourages individuals to make up their own minds. I've heard him use the phrase, "I don't encourage it, I don't discourage it" in regard to various topics. I'm sure he treats his adult children the same way.


Ron Paul: I get a lot of questions on that, a lot of phone calls and emails, and people sometimes want me to sign something, to fully endorse it as a legal matter. But I haven’t signed anything, so I neither encourage it nor discourage it, because of the frustration, because in some places they won’t count the votes. But if people feel totally exasperated and still want the satisfaction of doing something, there shouldn’t be anything wrong with it.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:01 | 2978246 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

"Romney really blew it by alienating the libertarians."

I agree in the sense that libertarians would have been fools to vote for him regardless of whether his words alienated them or not.  He is not a libertarian.  He is a corporatist-oligarch-big federal government-status quo politician.  Like Obama.  

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:05 | 2978255 ersatzteil
ersatzteil's picture

Seems to be a trend, especially among younger voters. Tired of bunking 3rd class on the Titanic; the lifeboats may be cold and exposed, but you stand a better chance.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:20 | 2978097 monopoly
monopoly's picture

I look at our failures every day, see this "statesman" and pray for our country. It will take a long time to bring it back, if it is possible.

And Tyler, off topic, but not really, just an interesting story even though it cannot happen.

Texas Governor Rick Perry says no to 'secede' petition

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:34 | 2978155 Poundsand
Poundsand's picture

At least not yet...

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:51 | 2978216 MiltonFriedmans...
MiltonFriedmansNightmare's picture

Succession may be the only viable option. Texas to lead the way?

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:51 | 2978567 post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

First of all, it's spelled SECESSION. As in to SECEDE.

Second, Texas will not lead the way because Texas has renounced all claim to right of secession per the Texas state constitution - Ordinance, Declaring the Ordinance of Secession Null and Void, March 15 1866.

"... and the right heretofore claimed by the State of Texas to secede from the Union, is hereby distinctly renounced."

Note that's a claimed right to secession that they're renouncing as opposed to an actual right, as the claim was never validated or recognized by ANYONE, not even the international community at that time.

I swear to Christ Almighty, that's all this country needs... more tea partiers, freepers, and tenthers that only see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear - as opposed to the actual TRUTH of the situation. Ask the ghosts of the Whiskey Rebellion how things turned out when they were protesting taxes and formed an armed insurrection. George Washington himself rode at the head of 15,000 men to make sure that mad bullshit was put to rest right quick - that pretty much set the precedent and the Civil War sealed the deal... you join the Union you pay your fucking taxes, and you don't secede without a fight. I mean a real fight, blood and guts style, not this impotent raging armchair keyboard warrior bullshit. It's just hot air, no one cares. Grab your guns and put up or shut up.


Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:16 | 2978289 knukles
knukles's picture

What the fuck you expect?
Rick Perry rock the establishment boat?
You gotta be kidding me....

Big Hat No Cows

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:07 | 2978442 BeansBulletsBandaids
BeansBulletsBandaids's picture

not to be nit-picky but I'm pretty sure it's "all hat, no cattle"

and you're right, gov good hair would never rock the boat. i wish kinky would have won the last election down here.....

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:20 | 2978100 nmewn
nmewn's picture

The forced destruction of the dollar (and individual labor for profit) must be maintained at all us, we're from the government and we're here to help.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:26 | 2978125 Insideher Trading
Insideher Trading's picture

Guns kill and they should be banned. Pencils mispell words and should be outlawed. Bloomberg will ban tablespoons, because as we all know it's the size of the spoon that causes obesity.

This is the progessive future. Forward citizen.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:27 | 2978136 Thecomingcollapse
Thecomingcollapse's picture

I wish that your statement was sarcasm.... but it's not and it is truly sad what we are becoming as a nation.  We will strip everybody of their liberties to "protect" them. sad..... truly, truly sad

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:55 | 2978226 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

The problem is with States like NY and Kali that have socialist assholes for leadership and the electoral votes needed to outvote those in states with more "conservative" values. I'm sick and tired of the likes of Bloomberg and Pelosi railroading us into servitude to the State. This secession business may be nothing more than noise right now, however, it is making more sense as each year passes.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:07 | 2978258 Insideher Trading
Insideher Trading's picture

Your neighbor's obligations are your responsibility; shared sacrifice citizen.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:16 | 2978290 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

You say shared sacrifice, I say organized theft.................

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:13 | 2978621 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

NY is a large state. 


Here in my neck of the Empire State, I'm 500 miles away from asshole Bloomberg and it didn't even rain for more than a couple hours and never lost power for 1 second with Sandy.


I got guns, gold and farmland, plus LAKE ONTARIO less than 2 miles away - fresh water 4ever even when your aquaifer is dry to the bone.


So, lump NY into one at your own risk and go fuck yourself. 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:49 | 2978718 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

And how were your electoral votes applied again??

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:52 | 2978731 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

So, your team Red Romney.

If you really care about who is president you just don't get it. 

And thus, attack the blue states. Because the red state you live in must be so much better and different than upstate NY. 



Wed, 11/14/2012 - 00:18 | 2978779 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

You have obviously missed my points on all counts, no doubt due to poor reading comprehension skills. I think I would rather accept your kind invitation to go fuck myself than attempt to rehash that which I have already hashed. The offer is still good I hope?

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:54 | 2978402 you enjoy myself
you enjoy myself's picture

before going with the secession route, plan A should be to eliminate the state/local tax deductions from federal taxes.  any remaining productive citizens that hadn't already left a blue state would be gone by the end of the year, and it would collapse.  that, or the citizens would get a real hard lesson on the importance of fiscal/tax sanity and start voting accordingly.  either way, its a win. 

similarly, we're so far gone on the federal level that the best thing R's could do to salvage the country is to fold, and go along with O's agenda - stop the futile effort to slow down the inevitable crash and let Dems own it, and let citizens learn from it.  people actually believe that raising taxes another 4% on those making over $250K would solve our problems, and that the meanie Repubs are the ones blocking the way to a glorious fiscally responsible future.   so give in, and remove that strawman from the argument.  when we crash anyways, people will at least start re-evaluating their assumptions.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:56 | 2978587 post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

Hear hear! Everyone's up in arms about federal taxes and budgets yet they turn around and vote yes on every goddamned tax and bond issue put in front of them at the city and county level. Seriously, what the fuck people? Did you think all that money was free? Idiots.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:57 | 2978741 Jugdish
Jugdish's picture

That's ridiculous. So when the democrat plans don't work out all the fucking retarded moron idiots are suddenly going to go ohhhh it was Obama's fault. Let me be clear, at this point, if you don't see what's going on and who the players are and what their role is, there is no hope of any kind for you. You are a fucking idiot and will die a fucking idiot and your shit that you accumulated will be confiscated or passed on to another complete utter fucking moron only to be squandered.

You are a defeatist, a loser, an excuse maker. You are a compromiser, a Mitt Romney. I've heard this think-tank idea from other idiots who listen to Rush Limbaugh and Hannnnity like yourself. Look at yourself in the mirror. That's what a spineless loser looks like.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 01:20 | 2978895 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

They won't learn from it, are you fucking kidding me?  Average Joe who charges and borrows his way into debt oblivion with credit cards and auto loans and a mortgage and a HELOC doesn't pay off his debt...he goes to the courthouse and declares bankruptcy.  Once his bankruptcy is discharged, the very first thing Average Joe does is fill out an application for another credit card  to "rebuild his credit".  And then Average Joe finds himself in exactly the same situation a decade later and declares bankruptcy again, reasoning that he'll get it right the next time.  And then Average Joe fills out an application for another credit card to "re-rebuild his credit" etc. etc. ad nauseum, lather, rinse, and repeat.

The gimmedats aren't going to accept the blame when the puppet theater burns down, oh hell no.  They are going to sit in front of the pile of ashes and scream like wet-diapered infants because the funny puppets are all gone and Mommy isn't there with a bottle.  And then they're going to crawl to your puppet show and demand your bottle.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 02:31 | 2978968 you enjoy myself
you enjoy myself's picture

don't necessarily disagree, as Detroit aptly demonstrates that some humans are dumber than tree sloths, and will continue to pull the pavlovian "D" lever despite decades of ruin under that leadership.  but the difference between a president obama and a president romney was only 400,000 votes in 4 swing states.  you don't need mouth-breathing neanderthals to start reading Hayek, you just need voters at the margin to finally witness some cause/effect - QE4 drives gas to $6, Obamacare results in them moving from full-time to a 29.9 hour temp, etc.  even jimmy carter got 41% of the vote in 1980.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:47 | 2978201 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Well stated..."progressives" I really do hate them because I know what they are.

Every fucking one of them.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:17 | 2978280 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Ron Paul and uber Progressive Dennis Kucinich see eye-to-eye on a lot of things, and RP doesn't fucking hate him because he sees substantial common ground.   The two have worked together on important issues such as auditing the Fed.   The term "progressive" like so many labels assumes a lot of things that don't hold true for most individuals.  One would think that a rugged individualist like yourself would stay away from such broad assumptions, but then again you never got over your love of Ayn Rand that you found as a Freshman in college.  But do carry on with your hatred of all things with all persons who do not agree with every single thing you hold dear.  The establishment is quite happy with that arrangement.

P.S.  I would vote for Dennis Kucinich before I would vote for Romney.  Yet I voted for Ron Paul.  I'll bet you wouldn't vote for Kucinich even though he agrees with more of your ideology than Romney, because you disagree with some of his positions.  So here we are with another close election between Dumb and Dumber.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:29 | 2978332 adr
adr's picture

Dennis Kucinich has and always will be in politics for himself. Which has made the man a very good living. He bankrupted Cleveland and helped expand the sub society in Cleveland for the past 30 years.

He was front and center trading food stamps for cash with Tubbs Jones. Kucinich likes handing out the candy for votes as much as Obama.

Kucinich is against the wars and wants to audit the Fed, not because he wishes for indepenence and individual liberty, but because the Fed threatens the solvency of the welfare system that kept Kucinich in power.

Much of Cleveland's crumbling infrastructure comes from the Kucinich years of attempting to provide free water, power, and sanitation. As he paid off the welfare queens, they grew exponentially pushing the productive class out of Cleveland along with the businesses that provided the revenue to keep his socialist dream alive.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:52 | 2978572 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Kucinich a Progressive now? Surely you jest when accusing the only sensible Socialist of being a Leninist. Progressive = Leninist. Lenin created the term and the philosophy behind it.


Kucinich is more a Trotskyite. Stilla Commie, but not as devious about it.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:47 | 2978192 TrulyBelieving
TrulyBelieving's picture

Forced destruction of the dollar, necessary to weaken the U.S. to a point where the Statist will be able to assume full control. And I mean full control which of course is the goal. Yes, this would be considered sucess for the likes of oBama and his ilk.  So how many of you suckers desire for the pres. to succeed? 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:50 | 2978204 formadesika3
formadesika3's picture


Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:25 | 2978308 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 You are much more "articulate"...

  Taught me well. (nmewn)   Your voice needs to be heard/

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:22 | 2978101 Quantum Nucleonics
Quantum Nucleonics's picture

Soon to be former Congressman Paul using up the last few seconds of his 15 minutes.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:21 | 2978107 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

everywhere and always the can it will be kicked

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:22 | 2978108 surf0766
surf0766's picture

The communists want the cliff.   Prepare it is coming

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:34 | 2978158 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Well, we who do not want communism should keep RP warmed up and ready to lead a new republic.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:38 | 2978169 surf0766
surf0766's picture

You mean what is left of the republic? 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:18 | 2978294 knukles
knukles's picture

right, what's left

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:27 | 2978326 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Such a beautifull mind, "without redress"/

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:54 | 2978401 knukles
knukles's picture




Wed, 11/14/2012 - 01:20 | 2978894 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Yes, thanks for the correction.


To The Constitution!

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:38 | 2978170 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

The communists don't want the cliff, it will interrupt their spendathon.


The "fiscal cliff" is simply a device to make the next round of outrageous theft a bit more palatable to the public.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:39 | 2978172 formadesika3
formadesika3's picture

you turkeys listen up! It's not a cliff, it's a slope. I read that just this morning. Forward!


Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:04 | 2978253 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Hmmmmmmmmmm... as long as you promise the slope won't turn horizontal...

I'm in.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:36 | 2978352 formadesika3
formadesika3's picture

No promises. Next thursday the turkeys will find out what Thanksgiving's really all about... for them.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:20 | 2978298 knukles
knukles's picture


That's Razzist

Like on the golf course anymore, can't call it the slope rating, it's now the Asian rating.


(fuck political correctness, a true from of Orwell's Doublespeak... a propaganda and mind control technique)

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:06 | 2978262 hawk nation
hawk nation's picture

They better be careful what they wish for since noone will be there todo their dirty work

That includes the military who are being trained in marshall law and state reservists 

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 01:18 | 2978890 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Yep, the home militia here is all being turned into MPs.  But not all.

The others are S5s, civil administrators.

Then, they are incorporating them into the federalized military.


Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:22 | 2978112 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Lucky for him TBTB have successfully portrayed him as a nut, otherwise he'd have accidently gone under in the hot tub long ago.  

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:23 | 2978115 SILVERGEDDON

At least one guy has the balls to tell the truth in public. Not so with Oblamea and Mittens - a pair of sociopathic doorknobs on either side of the powerbrokers. Lackeys, meet THE PLAN.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:26 | 2978129 rodocostarica
rodocostarica's picture

Go RP. I can see that now the good doctor can just go fucking crazy and tell the truth more intensely like this.

I look forward to him being around when he wants and how he wants in the future . What I donated to his campaign I am more than happy to let him keep in the bank and spend it by going out and tell the truth like this.

Go have some fun Ron and keep educating the sheep.

Can he be Don King  standing behind his kid Rand for 2016?


Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:31 | 2978341 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture


You're about a fuckin' muppet...

Welcome to the Rand Paul evolution

Paul says he’ll return to Congress this week pushing measures long avoided by his party

He’ll push to loosen marijuana penalties, legalize undocumented immigrants and pursue a less aggressive American foreign policy.



Wed, 11/14/2012 - 00:51 | 2978843 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

from your link,

“I don’t think we should put people in jail for mandatory sentences of nonviolent drug crimes, particularly 20-year sentences,” Paul said. “I’d just hate to see somebody’s kid get put in jail for 20 years for making a mistake.

uh huh, no one wants to screw up a kid's life for 20 years. . . unless of course, it's a kid who finds out she's pregnant despite "taking precautions" or maybe being raped, even by a relative. . . much more important that the State makes the decision for her to spend the rest of her life atoning for her "mistakes"   *nods*

I support a Human Life Amendment and have co-sponsored the Life at Conception Act as federal solutions to the abortion issue. In addition, I support a Sanctity of Life Amendment, establishing the principle that life begins at conception. This legislation would define life at conception in law, as a scientific statement.

In January 2011, Senator Roger Wicker (R-Miss.) introduced the Life at Conception Act (S. 91), which I co-sponsored.  This legislation would declare the right to life is vested in each human being beginning at the moment of fertilization.  S. 91 was referred to the Senate Judiciary Committee, of which I am not a member, where it awaits further consideration.

"I am not a member" - I beg to differ.  you are both a member, and a tool.

and those "illegals" Rand wants to "assimilate" - starting to see a pattern here,

But if they’re willing to work, willing to pay taxes, I think we need to normalize those who are here.”

yep, need to get that tax base up. . . get some new folks in, folks who are known for large families, maybe?  and then of course, there's all those new Santified babies you're anticipating. . .

Rand Paul & Paul Ryan 2016 - simple message, easy meme.  both power hungry & playing the game.

Ryan splits with GOP leadership

But on his second day back in Washington, Ryan’s split from powerful Republicans is certain to draw more attention.

watch this space, eh.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 00:58 | 2978854's picture

I've heard of single issue voters but you're the first single issue talker I've encountered.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 02:02 | 2978934 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

just keeping the meme alive before y'all start gettin' your ballots and pencils out for the next voting game.

besides, why do you worry - absolutely no one here ever refutes anything on the topic, it's just hissy-fit down-arrows and back to the campaigning - I doubt many give a shit about a female's liberty, and even more probably don't know Paul's stance to this day.  on this topic, no Fight Club takers.

all good, the Conservative Repubs will volley that ball, and spike it when they need to.

any commentary on the Rand legalising the "illegals" for taxation?  there's another Bush, George P., getting his Hispanic ducks in a row now too - I can see the "future" even without crystal balls. . .

2016, bitcheZzzzzzzzzz. . .

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 02:39 | 2978974's picture

I've never met a man who looked at every situation in life primarily with regard to how it effects a woman's liberty. It's unusual. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 15:44 | 2981083 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

indeed, the men you tend to favour aren't all that concerned about extending the LIBERTARIAN party past their own needs and agenda. . . this has history behind it, this liberty for the chosen, obedience for the others - right back to the founding daddies, and then, of course, further and further, same old story. . . pays to be vigilant.

and those who believe themselves superiour by virtue of birth traits, they look at the mess o' amrkns, men included, and laugh, because in an hierarchical system, everyone thinks they're on top, above those they despise.

yes indeed, plenty of men and women out there who believe they know what's best for you and yours. . .

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:35 | 2978159 seek
seek's picture

This is one of the few times I disagree with Dr. Paul.

We're not at the point of no return, we are well past the point of no return.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:08 | 2978266 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Think bigger. There is no 'well past' when measuring infinity. You're either there or not.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:40 | 2978177 Antifederalist
Antifederalist's picture

The only honest man in politics. Ron Paul, like a Founding Father.

Godspeed Dr. Paul, history will prove you right, and will be kind to you.

You are the Neocons worst nightmare.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:46 | 2978193 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Ron Paul will no doubt be demonized as unpatriotic and not believing in the "recovery" and the "great American way" (which appears to be bailouts for the malfeasant and extend and pretend while shredding the Constitution).

No one wants to hear the truth when the diagnosis comes in.

Bullish for S&W, Sturm Ruger, and cheap land in remote areas.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:45 | 2978194 egoist
egoist's picture

"they won't face reality" That is the universal problem!

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:46 | 2978198 Lost Wages
Lost Wages's picture

This guy? 100% irrelevant.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:47 | 2978202 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

And what do you have to offer?

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:52 | 2978218 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

As long as he has been here I have never seen him offer anything of substance to the conversation. He's just like the little heckler from the peanut gallery.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:09 | 2978268 Antifederalist
Antifederalist's picture

You are joking, right?

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:15 | 2978288 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 What is the VWAP, on the projected "ES open" in the morning ANTI- FUCK trade?

  Beat it! I'll call you!  Don't ever fuck with Dr.E.  " BITCH"

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:34 | 2978349 Antifederalist
Antifederalist's picture

I thought you were talking about RP. Not Lost Wages. My bad.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:43 | 2978381 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

That happens. I'm a Ron Paul voter.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:47 | 2978389 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Really?  I lived in Noblesville Indiana, for 4 years!

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:52 | 2978399 Antifederalist
Antifederalist's picture

Me too. Also ran some newspaper ads for him.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:01 | 2978422 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

When you wake up, from that long slumber/ The pre fix was 714 back in > 1974)

People like you Blatant liars! I can tell you where i was. You weren't even born yet.



Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:09 | 2978443 Antifederalist
Antifederalist's picture

What the fuck are you talking about?

Have another drink, troll.

I was born in 1957. You?

You said RP is out of touch with reality . Well yours maybe. Make sense if possible or fuck off and die.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:23 | 2978494 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

So dip shit? You were alive in 1974/ ? hey FUCK HEAD! Run for the hills!  You're toast!

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:33 | 2978520 Antifederalist
Antifederalist's picture

And you were born in...?

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:46 | 2978716's picture

... a log sanitarium.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 00:36 | 2978815 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 That comment was 2 hours old ?  I saw you this morning, then i flushed the "toilet"! looooser/

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 03:00 | 2979001 akak
akak's picture

Yen Cross, I ask this in all seriousness: are you, or have you been, drinking in the last little while?  Because your posts of the last couple of hours have been, shall we say, rather cryptic ("disjointed", "odd", "nonsensical" might also be used, if less charitably).

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 04:41 | 2979055 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  Yes, akak. Thanks for asking.  I'm still not a "Ron Paul" fan though.

 lost a special person. As you would say uumpahh.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:25 | 2978500 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

I thought you were lying your ass off!

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:35 | 2978354 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

I was gonna uprate your post - but then I realised you weren't talking about Ron Paul.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:59 | 2978744 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

PLUS! 1   ( It's the thought that counts)

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 01:01 | 2978862's picture


Wed, 11/14/2012 - 01:38 | 2978918 Lost Wages
Lost Wages's picture

I assure you, there is a reason for my trollin'. Sometimes I'm serious, but sometimes I'm just expressing an opinion. I know I'm not allowed to have an opinion about Ron Paul, because his shit doesn't stink and his cock is really gigantic, but I still have one, probably because I am so flawed.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:46 | 2978200 ZFiNX
ZFiNX's picture

Good to see this article. I am going insane with the garbage permeating the net these days. Good to be back to zerohedge, where we're all crazy, but the news is sane.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:49 | 2978208 papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

A bargain will be reached...all will celebrate...then the reality of how grand it really is will set in. Remember...all they want to do is get 6-8 month ramps out of the market before reality sets in. I think they can squeeze 2 more uphoria rallies at best before they whole thing breaks....barring some external catalyst.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:50 | 2978209 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I agree, there will be no "grand bargain"on the fiscal cliff. It's in Obama's best interest to drive right off the cliff with the illusion that he is trying to come to terms with the house. If he drives off the cliff he gets what he wants... Higher taxes, decreased military spending , and he can blame it all on republics.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:23 | 2978316 knukles
knukles's picture


He wants to crash and burn.
Moreover, then he sees himself as the New FDR bringing the country out of depression and poverty, into a shining socialist light of love, fairness and goodness for all.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 00:38 | 2978820 Seer
Seer's picture

Obama is a fucking puppet!  It's not he who is making decisions.

There is NO PLAN other than they are all going to continue doing exactly what they've been doing all along.

How people can't see that it's ALL been an illusion, that somehow TPTB decided that: "we're fucking rich, let's just really shake things up because, well, because we KNOW that doing the status quo thing just isn't the best thing."

This "country" will NEVER come out of the credit-binged, over-leveraged, militarized rampage that it went on, not when there are insufficient resources to do so.

I REALLY, REALLY don't know why all the "capitalism is next to God" folks can possibly believe that anything else could replace it given that: BAD SYSTEMS FAIL.  Go ahead, beat your heads against the wall; you ain't going to move it.  Tossing out names and all sorts of other juvenile political shit just shows how pathetically ill-equipped people are/will be to shift gears.  In case people are only trained to react to colors ("seeing red" here), it's like this: if socialism/communism is as bad as you say it is then you have little faith in whatever alternative it is that you believe in (which, I figure, is capitalism).

Obama is flying drones all over the ME trying to secure oil.  He's got AFRICOM working so that Africa can be exploited for capitalism (can't let the commies be the only exploiters in Africa!).

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 01:36 | 2978917 Seer
Seer's picture


These were the laws that were laid down.  It's Congress that is responsible.  And further, POTUS is a puppet position.

"Decreased military spending."  What, you're a neocon?  NOTE: when they say "decrease" it really means a "reduction of forecast INCREASES."

Why the fuck are we even bothering to play these games?  Seems like you're partying with Party Pussies to me.  GET THIS: THE DEBTS CAN NEVER BE REPAID; so, why the fuck should anything matter, WE ARE going over a cliff, either voluntarily or involuntarily, does it really make a difference?  If you push the "voluntary" button all hell breaks loose NOW: if you ain't 100% prepared then it's highly unlikely that you'll be able to complete your plans with one arm tied behind your back (spending much energy dealing with the fires around you).

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:52 | 2978221 augmister
augmister's picture

No news here... quietly move along please.   We have been over the cliff since 2008.  It will be hilarious as more people focus on the bottom of the abyss like deer in the headlights.   And more people are saying that.  Fellow workers ask me what's coming... I tell them, "think Sandy, without the storm."


Wed, 11/14/2012 - 00:40 | 2978825 Seer
Seer's picture

2008?  Try 1971.  But, maybe you can identify more important things that transpired in 2008 than in 1971?

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:54 | 2978224 sunnyside
sunnyside's picture

I could listen to Ron Paul and watch Trish Regan all day.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:24 | 2978317 knukles
knukles's picture

Toosh Regan?

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:00 | 2978235 GreatUncle
GreatUncle's picture

Think he does not understand the problem myself.

The fiscal cliff and over it yep, dam right! The productivity issue though is false.

If I could exist on a dollar a day I could produce for the rest of the world. I can't because I need far more like everybody else hence you are out of work on cost because the jobs goes elsewhere.

Try this ...

Give me a man, any man in any country in the world that is far cheaper. Go on, be a demon I choose Africa. Then with a little bit of teaching I can help him produce for 50 men elsewhere in the world.

Was never a productivity issue, it is a cost issue but blamed on the productivity a person and earnings to support oneself.

Hey, believe it is a productivity issue if you want Mr Paul, fiscal cliff for sure, but recognise the cost that drove it and where did the increased cost come from????????

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:43 | 2978708 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Productivity is a function of Opportunity Cost. If you knew the correct and actualy definition of the term productivity within the context it is being used in then you would have understood more clearly what it is that is being stated.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 01:48 | 2978923 Seer
Seer's picture

Try this one one for size: If you have NO resources you have NO "Opportunity Cost," NO "Production."

Raw materials + Energy + Design/Manufacturing/Execution = Production

Human labor may or may not be required (though there's almost always someone behind the algos).

Any chance that the US's decline in production is related to declining raw materials or energy?  Talking about Opportunity Cost, how can we measure the opportunity cost lost when the US went from a net exporter to net importer of oil?

I have yet to hear Paul address issues relating to declining resources.  NOTE: I've supported Paul, so it's not like I'm bashing him; it's just that I don't put blinders on for him or for anyone else.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 04:22 | 2979047 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Ron Paul actually has spoke about the issue. The world is not running out of Oil, get over it. I've seen more fear mongering on this topic than everything, except AGW, and in the end it's always just a scare tactic to get people to accept governmental price control schemes and intervention. If the markets were able to work efficiently none of this would ever be an issue.


It's not Raw Material+ Energy+Man= Production. That is merely Consumerist  nonsense. Productivity is a direct function of Opportunity Cost, not Production. Production is only a factor when dealing with aggregate metrics when the end's matter rather than the mean's. Aggregate metrics are only used for MMT and Keynesian modes of thought, and this new Cyclic Theory that Krugman is pumping about. It's garbage and half of it is circular Dialectic nonsense.


The US's decline in production is directly related to the end productivity which is is effected by the opportunity cost to pursue greater levels of said productivity. All of this is being crushed by Inflation and the cost to maintain that standard base level in such an inflationary environment. I have no idea why it's so hard for you people to understand this.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 00:52 | 2978848 Seer
Seer's picture

Somebody else fucking gets it- whoo hoo!

Most of the exploitation of labor, however, is really occurring elsewhere because of more ready access to exploiting natural resources (and or trashing the environment* [costs can be externalized].

* Consider:

One thing, however, that people TOTALLY miss is that robots/automation have claimed MANY of the supposed "lost" jobs.  Whenever a business relocates it takes advantage of the disruption to undertake new means of production, which almost always incorporates MORE automation (I've been in manufacturing, I know).  We cannot look in the mirror, as we hold that iGadget that we cannot set down, and we can't tell ourselves that automation is the reason, for to do so would force us to reflect on our consumption (and for many it would force them to hear Karl Marx's warnings about automation [yeah, a broken clock can be right]).

Anyway, yes, it's a COST issue.  And costs are primarily related to physical resources and energy.


Wed, 11/14/2012 - 01:13 | 2978885's picture


If I could exist on a dollar a day I could produce for the rest of the world. I can't because I need far more like everybody else hence you are out of work on cost because the jobs goes elsewhere.


The jobs go elsewhere because the dollar is a reserve currency which can be printed to infinity and sent overseas for real goods. Infinite dollars which stay at home would break the economy through hyperinflation. So the dollars are sent elsewhere where they can destroy other economies while we get those low cost goods. Eventually the dollar will lose reserve status due to overprinting. Then those excess dollars will come home, crash the economy and we can all go to work for the buggy whip industry.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 02:09 | 2978950 Seer
Seer's picture

I think what you're saying was siad before (you're correct!):

“We must find new lands from which we can easily obtain raw materials and at the same time exploit the cheap slave labor that is available from the natives of the colonies. The colonies would also provide a dumping ground for the surplus goods produced in our factories.”

- Cecil Rhodes

Keep this in mind when someone is said to be a Rhodes Scholar...

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 02:48 | 2978986's picture

Kris Kristofferson was a Rhodes scholar and he tried to convince folks that, "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:57 | 2978237 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

Fuck the haters.

Turn it up, Dr.


Jesus Lizard- "Thumbscrews"


Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:59 | 2978242 tooriskytoinvest
tooriskytoinvest's picture

Living and Dying in the Global Economy - Oil paintings examining the daily existence of people in the worst working, living (and dying) conditions in the global economy.

46.000.000 Americans live on food stamps

‘The Great Reset Is Coming!’ The “Sell Off” Has Already Begun Which Could Soon Turning Into Panic Selling



Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:45 | 2978386 toomanyfakecons...
toomanyfakeconservatives's picture

Don't kid yourself. Many of those 46 million that "live on foodstamps" and other benefits make a crapload of money off the books and sell their government cheese, government drugs, and other bennies for cash.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 02:31 | 2978969 Seer
Seer's picture

While you, I suppose, are the epitome of usefulness...

One sees dirt if one is only looking for dirt.

Like everything else, all these political hot-buttons are over-charged and overstated so that the gullible will swallow them.

For every person you figure is cheating I bet there are two who are not cheating, and not on food-stamps though they could probably benefit (find them more of a necessity- pride keeps them away).

Confederate flag... kinda says it all.  I remember good ol Ross Perot firing everyone up about business being more efficient and all, yeah, good ol Ross, the guy who made his big money off of govt contracts.

People who point fingers are usually trying to distract from themselves.  Don't kid yourself.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:00 | 2978243 hawk nation
hawk nation's picture

I received an email today stating that the government hs changed the title of a social security check by adding the word bennfit

Does anyone know why they changed the terminology since its not a benefit but earned income from payroll taxes? 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:15 | 2978287 adr
adr's picture

Because it takes 10 workers at $50k a year to pay the benefits of one retiree. The money you paid into social security was spent long ago.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:28 | 2978329 knukles
knukles's picture

Mind-washing, control, ever increasing human emotional fealty and love to the state.

It's not yours, it's a benefit endowed upon you by the Leviathan.

Same reason they call it Daylight Savings Time.
Only a fucking politician would claim to "save" daylight.

There is a fucking war on for your mind... Eddie Bernays like war, every where you look, listen, see and hear.... it's there trying to consume you, no different than an addiction or terminal illness.

I'm serious as a fucking heart attack.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:40 | 2978372 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

Jack B. - is that you?

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:35 | 2978438 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Basement " ART", is that you?  I was thinkinking about testing VXX , as VIX is a JOKE.

 Have you ever owned a race car? My Ferrari 599GTO is for sale. " Brain Death"

  these children are so out of touch with reality! I started my first business at 15.

  The money isn't in computers. It's in labor, if you can find it!

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:05 | 2978611 MikeMcGspot
MikeMcGspot's picture

A reflection and replicaiton of "In God we Trust" on our bills and coins.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:10 | 2978620 MikeMcGspot
MikeMcGspot's picture

Adapting with an update of the meme implament so many love. V X.MDCXL.XXX for countless generations.

Love the last release!


Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:03 | 2978251 Calidreaming
Calidreaming's picture

that bloomberg chick is really hot

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:11 | 2978276 adr
adr's picture

I'll watch as everything left that can save me money will be taken away one by one. That is Obama's plan, make sure veryone relies on him for everything.

Hear about the new ObamaPA regulation going into effect in March regarding furnaces. You will no longer be able to buy any furnace below 93% efficiency above the Mason Dixon line. Followed by the regulation that no home will be able to pass a FHA, VA, or other government inspection for sale without 93%+ efficiency appliances.

So now while watching your home declining in value is not enough, if you try to sell it will need at least $5k in upgrades to even be listed.

Again, part of the plan. Make sure all homeowners are forclosed on so the government can be landlord for all.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 01:07 | 2978874 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

As your Fuhrer, uhh, uhh dictaster, uhhh, president, let me be queer, uhhh clear.

There is too much going on. In addition to Nationalizing Oil, I am Nationalizing everything! Today!

I will hold everyone''s titles to their stuff in my special offshore vault where the oild money is. You can trust me.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:11 | 2978277 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Tyler, OT, turns out that the crazy twin sister of Jill Kelley, the Tampa partyer in the center of the Petreus scandal, was married to the former head of the Iraqi Reconstruction Authority.

So do you recall the pallets of shrink-wrapped cash that they disappeared over there?  I thought you did.  This was the guy in charge.

Generals Petreus and Allen both wrote letters intervening in a nasty custody dispute on behalf of Jill's twin (Natalie), urging the judge to take her son away from this Grayson Wolfe.  Pretty serious shit.

The media doesn't have the part of the story on what Wolfe did for a living yet...I found it on a private venture website where he's a senior associate.  So break the story if you wish.  Links are (heh) already on ZH in WilliamBanzai7's clever post on the General Scandal (currently top of the page).

Or do your own digging.  Plenty of poop it appears.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:23 | 2978312 Insideher Trading
Insideher Trading's picture

Moral of the story -

Your dick can get you in a lot of trouble.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:57 | 2978409 optimator
optimator's picture

The further away from home you go, the harder your d**k gets.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:27 | 2978325 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Jim, you are the POSTER!

- Ned

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:31 | 2978342 knukles
knukles's picture

And she's got Consular status.
Go figure.


It's a coup being put down.
Listen, look, to many high plains soldiers being relieved of commands for odd issues that just so happen to surface alongside FBI investigations.....

Wake the Fuck Up

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:54 | 2978370 Insideher Trading
Insideher Trading's picture

Could be some truth to that.

TWO - 4 STAR generals have been relieved under Obama (Petraeus & Mcchrystal), with 1 four star general (Allen) being actively investigated as part of this Petraeus thing.

This is quite unprecedented. Something questionable is definately occuring. These are 4 star generals we're talking about here, this has never happened under any other President.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:06 | 2978418 knukles
knukles's picture

Also had that Admiral in charge of a carrier fleet relieved by his number one, flown directly back to Bremerton Washington (?) ...
Several others, too.

These are not isolated incidents!

All too neat, and tidy, even time dilated... as if they've been moved against all at once.
And note the asides being used... "not under personal investigation at this time"
Treason is not personal.. they're telling the truth.
Otherwise it's be dereliction of duty through misappropriation, etc... which is PERSONAL 

OR, they're being relieved as a message to not be critical, argumentative, etc.....

Either way, there's a big house cleaning going on.
What leads me to the conspiracy side is the FBI involvement for a protracted period of time, plus the association anomalies....

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 15:43 | 2981081 Chaos_Theory
Chaos_Theory's picture

Life imitates art...Quintus and the Praetorian Guard moved quick on Maximumus and his loyalists when he refused to bow and kiss the new Emperor Commodus's hand

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