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Ron Paul: "0% Chance Of 'Grand Bargain' Over Fiscal Cliff"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Shining a little reality light on the otherwise pollyanna-like dearth of pragmatism that is the mainstream media's guest-list, Ron Paul provided Bloomberg TV's Trish Regan a little more than we suspect she bargained for when asked if he had any hope that we avoid the fiscal cliff. The constant "delaying-of-the-inevitable" enables our politicians to avoid facing up to the serious consequences of our reality and as Representative Paul notes the chances of a grand bargain are "probably zero... that's why I think we're over the cliff [already]." Just like the handling of the debt ceiling debacle, Paul notes they will "pretend they are going to do it" until we get a total crash of the dollar and the entire financial system (which he notes is what will occur if we continue the status quo). "We are at a point of no return" unless certain things change, since "we are not the productive nation we used to be."

Paul on the fiscal cliff and whether politicians are under more pressure to just do what they need to do to get votes:

"Well I think that's true and I think it's been that way for a long time but the big difference is the Treasury is bare. It isn't like we're in the 1950s and 1960s where economic growth could work our way out of these problems that you could print money forever. Printing the money right now, what does it do, it fills the banks with excessive reserves and they get paid to park it at the Federal Reserve. So it's quite different. We're not the productive nation we used to be…we have a lot of jobs gone overseas. Our dollar is weakening because prices do go up and as long as we do that, the politicians are going to keep pushing that and trying to get away with that but the big question is how long will politicians will be able to get away with that."

On the probability that a grand bargain will be reached on the fiscal cliff:

"Probably zero… that's why I think we're over the cliff. We're past bargaining states because they will not address those things I just stated. They're going to try to pretend that they are going to do it. The way they handled the debt increase, last summer, that is a pretty good example. And matter of fact the debt increase might be the big event come February that might be big because they can roll things over…they can postpone big decisions in January and yet that still does not remove the uncertainty. Uncertainty is a major cause of the inability for the market to get moving again and they have to revamp it in a much more detailed fashion than they are even talking about right now."

On whether Obama will be able to bring Congress together for some kind of reform before the end of the year:

"Oh no, I think there will be something, but it will be very temporary, it won't be long lasting and restore confidence and fix the problem. But there will be some type of reconciliation of saying we'll do this and a little of that and it may even help the financial markets for a little while, but since it won't solve the problems it will only be temporary. "

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Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:33 | 2978520 Antifederalist
Antifederalist's picture

And you were born in...?

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:46 | 2978716 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

... a log sanitarium.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 00:36 | 2978815 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 That comment was 2 hours old ?  I saw you this morning, then i flushed the "toilet"! looooser/

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 03:00 | 2979001 akak
akak's picture

Yen Cross, I ask this in all seriousness: are you, or have you been, drinking in the last little while?  Because your posts of the last couple of hours have been, shall we say, rather cryptic ("disjointed", "odd", "nonsensical" might also be used, if less charitably).

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 04:41 | 2979055 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  Yes, akak. Thanks for asking.  I'm still not a "Ron Paul" fan though.

 lost a special person. As you would say uumpahh.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:25 | 2978500 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

I thought you were lying your ass off!

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:35 | 2978354 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

I was gonna uprate your post - but then I realised you weren't talking about Ron Paul.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:59 | 2978744 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

PLUS! 1   ( It's the thought that counts)

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 01:01 | 2978862 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Doubleplusgood.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 01:38 | 2978918 Lost Wages
Lost Wages's picture

I assure you, there is a reason for my trollin'. Sometimes I'm serious, but sometimes I'm just expressing an opinion. I know I'm not allowed to have an opinion about Ron Paul, because his shit doesn't stink and his cock is really gigantic, but I still have one, probably because I am so flawed.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:46 | 2978200 ZFiNX
ZFiNX's picture

Good to see this article. I am going insane with the garbage permeating the net these days. Good to be back to zerohedge, where we're all crazy, but the news is sane.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:49 | 2978208 papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

A bargain will be reached...all will celebrate...then the reality of how grand it really is will set in. Remember...all they want to do is get 6-8 month ramps out of the market before reality sets in. I think they can squeeze 2 more uphoria rallies at best before they whole thing breaks....barring some external catalyst.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:50 | 2978209 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I agree, there will be no "grand bargain"on the fiscal cliff. It's in Obama's best interest to drive right off the cliff with the illusion that he is trying to come to terms with the house. If he drives off the cliff he gets what he wants... Higher taxes, decreased military spending , and he can blame it all on republics.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:23 | 2978316 knukles
knukles's picture

BINGO

He wants to crash and burn.
Moreover, then he sees himself as the New FDR bringing the country out of depression and poverty, into a shining socialist light of love, fairness and goodness for all.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 00:38 | 2978820 Seer
Seer's picture

Obama is a fucking puppet!  It's not he who is making decisions.

There is NO PLAN other than they are all going to continue doing exactly what they've been doing all along.

How people can't see that it's ALL been an illusion, that somehow TPTB decided that: "we're fucking rich, let's just really shake things up because, well, because we KNOW that doing the status quo thing just isn't the best thing."

This "country" will NEVER come out of the credit-binged, over-leveraged, militarized rampage that it went on, not when there are insufficient resources to do so.

I REALLY, REALLY don't know why all the "capitalism is next to God" folks can possibly believe that anything else could replace it given that: BAD SYSTEMS FAIL.  Go ahead, beat your heads against the wall; you ain't going to move it.  Tossing out names and all sorts of other juvenile political shit just shows how pathetically ill-equipped people are/will be to shift gears.  In case people are only trained to react to colors ("seeing red" here), it's like this: if socialism/communism is as bad as you say it is then you have little faith in whatever alternative it is that you believe in (which, I figure, is capitalism).

Obama is flying drones all over the ME trying to secure oil.  He's got AFRICOM working so that Africa can be exploited for capitalism (can't let the commies be the only exploiters in Africa!).

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 01:36 | 2978917 Seer
Seer's picture

Huh?

These were the laws that were laid down.  It's Congress that is responsible.  And further, POTUS is a puppet position.

"Decreased military spending."  What, you're a neocon?  NOTE: when they say "decrease" it really means a "reduction of forecast INCREASES."

Why the fuck are we even bothering to play these games?  Seems like you're partying with Party Pussies to me.  GET THIS: THE DEBTS CAN NEVER BE REPAID; so, why the fuck should anything matter, WE ARE going over a cliff, either voluntarily or involuntarily, does it really make a difference?  If you push the "voluntary" button all hell breaks loose NOW: if you ain't 100% prepared then it's highly unlikely that you'll be able to complete your plans with one arm tied behind your back (spending much energy dealing with the fires around you).

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:52 | 2978221 augmister
augmister's picture

No news here... quietly move along please.   We have been over the cliff since 2008.  It will be hilarious as more people focus on the bottom of the abyss like deer in the headlights.   And more people are saying that.  Fellow workers ask me what's coming... I tell them, "think Sandy, without the storm."

 

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 00:40 | 2978825 Seer
Seer's picture

2008?  Try 1971.  But, maybe you can identify more important things that transpired in 2008 than in 1971?

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:54 | 2978224 sunnyside
sunnyside's picture

I could listen to Ron Paul and watch Trish Regan all day.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:24 | 2978317 knukles
knukles's picture

Toosh Regan?

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:00 | 2978235 GreatUncle
GreatUncle's picture

Think he does not understand the problem myself.

The fiscal cliff and over it yep, dam right! The productivity issue though is false.

If I could exist on a dollar a day I could produce for the rest of the world. I can't because I need far more like everybody else hence you are out of work on cost because the jobs goes elsewhere.

Try this ...

Give me a man, any man in any country in the world that is far cheaper. Go on, be a demon I choose Africa. Then with a little bit of teaching I can help him produce for 50 men elsewhere in the world.

Was never a productivity issue, it is a cost issue but blamed on the productivity a person and earnings to support oneself.

Hey, believe it is a productivity issue if you want Mr Paul, fiscal cliff for sure, but recognise the cost that drove it and where did the increased cost come from????????

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:43 | 2978708 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Productivity is a function of Opportunity Cost. If you knew the correct and actualy definition of the term productivity within the context it is being used in then you would have understood more clearly what it is that is being stated.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 01:48 | 2978923 Seer
Seer's picture

Try this one one for size: If you have NO resources you have NO "Opportunity Cost," NO "Production."

Raw materials + Energy + Design/Manufacturing/Execution = Production

Human labor may or may not be required (though there's almost always someone behind the algos).

Any chance that the US's decline in production is related to declining raw materials or energy?  Talking about Opportunity Cost, how can we measure the opportunity cost lost when the US went from a net exporter to net importer of oil?

I have yet to hear Paul address issues relating to declining resources.  NOTE: I've supported Paul, so it's not like I'm bashing him; it's just that I don't put blinders on for him or for anyone else.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 04:22 | 2979047 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Ron Paul actually has spoke about the issue. The world is not running out of Oil, get over it. I've seen more fear mongering on this topic than everything, except AGW, and in the end it's always just a scare tactic to get people to accept governmental price control schemes and intervention. If the markets were able to work efficiently none of this would ever be an issue.

 

It's not Raw Material+ Energy+Man= Production. That is merely Consumerist  nonsense. Productivity is a direct function of Opportunity Cost, not Production. Production is only a factor when dealing with aggregate metrics when the end's matter rather than the mean's. Aggregate metrics are only used for MMT and Keynesian modes of thought, and this new Cyclic Theory that Krugman is pumping about. It's garbage and half of it is circular Dialectic nonsense.

 

The US's decline in production is directly related to the end productivity which is is effected by the opportunity cost to pursue greater levels of said productivity. All of this is being crushed by Inflation and the cost to maintain that standard base level in such an inflationary environment. I have no idea why it's so hard for you people to understand this.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 00:52 | 2978848 Seer
Seer's picture

Somebody else fucking gets it- whoo hoo!

Most of the exploitation of labor, however, is really occurring elsewhere because of more ready access to exploiting natural resources (and or trashing the environment* [costs can be externalized].

* Consider:

http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/amazing-pictures-pollution-in-china/

One thing, however, that people TOTALLY miss is that robots/automation have claimed MANY of the supposed "lost" jobs.  Whenever a business relocates it takes advantage of the disruption to undertake new means of production, which almost always incorporates MORE automation (I've been in manufacturing, I know).  We cannot look in the mirror, as we hold that iGadget that we cannot set down, and we can't tell ourselves that automation is the reason, for to do so would force us to reflect on our consumption (and for many it would force them to hear Karl Marx's warnings about automation [yeah, a broken clock can be right]).

Anyway, yes, it's a COST issue.  And costs are primarily related to physical resources and energy.

 

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 01:13 | 2978885 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

 

If I could exist on a dollar a day I could produce for the rest of the world. I can't because I need far more like everybody else hence you are out of work on cost because the jobs goes elsewhere.

 

The jobs go elsewhere because the dollar is a reserve currency which can be printed to infinity and sent overseas for real goods. Infinite dollars which stay at home would break the economy through hyperinflation. So the dollars are sent elsewhere where they can destroy other economies while we get those low cost goods. Eventually the dollar will lose reserve status due to overprinting. Then those excess dollars will come home, crash the economy and we can all go to work for the buggy whip industry.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 02:09 | 2978950 Seer
Seer's picture

I think what you're saying was siad before (you're correct!):

“We must find new lands from which we can easily obtain raw materials and at the same time exploit the cheap slave labor that is available from the natives of the colonies. The colonies would also provide a dumping ground for the surplus goods produced in our factories.”

- Cecil Rhodes

Keep this in mind when someone is said to be a Rhodes Scholar...

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 02:48 | 2978986 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Kris Kristofferson was a Rhodes scholar and he tried to convince folks that, "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:57 | 2978237 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

Fuck the haters.

Turn it up, Dr.

 

Jesus Lizard- "Thumbscrews"  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3EbgZNxA_k

 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 20:59 | 2978242 tooriskytoinvest
tooriskytoinvest's picture

Living and Dying in the Global Economy - Oil paintings examining the daily existence of people in the worst working, living (and dying) conditions in the global economy.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/oil-paintings-living-and-dying-in-the-global-economy/5311268

46.000.000 Americans live on food stamps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dut-YuNx5A4

‘The Great Reset Is Coming!’ The “Sell Off” Has Already Begun Which Could Soon Turning Into Panic Selling

http://investmentwatchblog.com/the-great-reset-is-coming-the-stock-sell-off-has-already-begun-which-could-soon-turning-into-panic-selling/

 

 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:45 | 2978386 toomanyfakecons...
toomanyfakeconservatives's picture

Don't kid yourself. Many of those 46 million that "live on foodstamps" and other benefits make a crapload of money off the books and sell their government cheese, government drugs, and other bennies for cash.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 02:31 | 2978969 Seer
Seer's picture

While you, I suppose, are the epitome of usefulness...

One sees dirt if one is only looking for dirt.

Like everything else, all these political hot-buttons are over-charged and overstated so that the gullible will swallow them.

For every person you figure is cheating I bet there are two who are not cheating, and not on food-stamps though they could probably benefit (find them more of a necessity- pride keeps them away).

Confederate flag... kinda says it all.  I remember good ol Ross Perot firing everyone up about business being more efficient and all, yeah, good ol Ross, the guy who made his big money off of govt contracts.

People who point fingers are usually trying to distract from themselves.  Don't kid yourself.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:00 | 2978243 hawk nation
hawk nation's picture

I received an email today stating that the government hs changed the title of a social security check by adding the word bennfit

Does anyone know why they changed the terminology since its not a benefit but earned income from payroll taxes? 

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:15 | 2978287 adr
adr's picture

Because it takes 10 workers at $50k a year to pay the benefits of one retiree. The money you paid into social security was spent long ago.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:28 | 2978329 knukles
knukles's picture

Mind-washing, control, ever increasing human emotional fealty and love to the state.

It's not yours, it's a benefit endowed upon you by the Leviathan.

Same reason they call it Daylight Savings Time.
Only a fucking politician would claim to "save" daylight.

There is a fucking war on for your mind... Eddie Bernays like war, every where you look, listen, see and hear.... it's there trying to consume you, no different than an addiction or terminal illness.

I'm serious as a fucking heart attack.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:40 | 2978372 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

Jack B. - is that you?

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:35 | 2978438 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Basement " ART", is that you?  I was thinkinking about testing VXX , as VIX is a JOKE.

 Have you ever owned a race car? My Ferrari 599GTO is for sale. " Brain Death"

  these children are so out of touch with reality! I started my first business at 15.

  The money isn't in computers. It's in labor, if you can find it!

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:05 | 2978611 MikeMcGspot
MikeMcGspot's picture

A reflection and replicaiton of "In God we Trust" on our bills and coins.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 23:10 | 2978620 MikeMcGspot
MikeMcGspot's picture

Adapting with an update of the meme implament so many love. V X.MDCXL.XXX for countless generations.

Love the last release!

Ahhhh...

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:03 | 2978251 Calidreaming
Calidreaming's picture

that bloomberg chick is really hot

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:11 | 2978276 adr
adr's picture

I'll watch as everything left that can save me money will be taken away one by one. That is Obama's plan, make sure veryone relies on him for everything.

Hear about the new ObamaPA regulation going into effect in March regarding furnaces. You will no longer be able to buy any furnace below 93% efficiency above the Mason Dixon line. Followed by the regulation that no home will be able to pass a FHA, VA, or other government inspection for sale without 93%+ efficiency appliances.

So now while watching your home declining in value is not enough, if you try to sell it will need at least $5k in upgrades to even be listed.

Again, part of the plan. Make sure all homeowners are forclosed on so the government can be landlord for all.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 01:07 | 2978874 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

As your Fuhrer, uhh, uhh dictaster, uhhh, president, let me be queer, uhhh clear.

There is too much going on. In addition to Nationalizing Oil, I am Nationalizing everything! Today!

I will hold everyone''s titles to their stuff in my special offshore vault where the oild money is. You can trust me.


Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:11 | 2978277 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Tyler, OT, but...it turns out that the crazy twin sister of Jill Kelley, the Tampa partyer in the center of the Petreus scandal, was married to the former head of the Iraqi Reconstruction Authority.

So do you recall the pallets of shrink-wrapped cash that they disappeared over there?  I thought you did.  This was the guy in charge.

Generals Petreus and Allen both wrote letters intervening in a nasty custody dispute on behalf of Jill's twin (Natalie), urging the judge to take her son away from this Grayson Wolfe.  Pretty serious shit.

The media doesn't have the part of the story on what Wolfe did for a living yet...I found it on a private venture website where he's a senior associate.  So break the story if you wish.  Links are (heh) already on ZH in WilliamBanzai7's clever post on the General Scandal (currently top of the page).

Or do your own digging.  Plenty of poop it appears.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:23 | 2978312 Insideher Trading
Insideher Trading's picture

Moral of the story -

Your dick can get you in a lot of trouble.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:57 | 2978409 optimator
optimator's picture

The further away from home you go, the harder your d**k gets.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:27 | 2978325 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Jim, you are the POSTER!

- Ned

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:31 | 2978342 knukles
knukles's picture

And she's got Consular status.
Go figure.

 

It's a coup being put down.
Listen, look, to many high plains soldiers being relieved of commands for odd issues that just so happen to surface alongside FBI investigations.....

Wake the Fuck Up

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 21:54 | 2978370 Insideher Trading
Insideher Trading's picture

Could be some truth to that.

TWO - 4 STAR generals have been relieved under Obama (Petraeus & Mcchrystal), with 1 four star general (Allen) being actively investigated as part of this Petraeus thing.

This is quite unprecedented. Something questionable is definately occuring. These are 4 star generals we're talking about here, this has never happened under any other President.

Tue, 11/13/2012 - 22:06 | 2978418 knukles
knukles's picture

Also had that Admiral in charge of a carrier fleet relieved by his number one, flown directly back to Bremerton Washington (?) ...
Several others, too.

These are not isolated incidents!

All too neat, and tidy, even time dilated... as if they've been moved against all at once.
And note the asides being used... "not under personal investigation at this time"
WTF?
Personal?
Treason is not personal.. they're telling the truth.
Otherwise it's be dereliction of duty through misappropriation, etc... which is PERSONAL 

OR, they're being relieved as a message to not be critical, argumentative, etc.....

Either way, there's a big house cleaning going on.
What leads me to the conspiracy side is the FBI involvement for a protracted period of time, plus the association anomalies....

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 15:43 | 2981081 Chaos_Theory
Chaos_Theory's picture

Life imitates art...Quintus and the Praetorian Guard moved quick on Maximumus and his loyalists when he refused to bow and kiss the new Emperor Commodus's hand

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